butthurt

Don't worry. We're spreading the joy with carebears now.

http://tinyurl.com/butod8t (Full slave set, 1.0 space)
http://tinyurl.com/c76wqvu (nearly a full set of +5s, also 1.0 space)

No need for wartargets, here. I'm even paying out bounties for delicious KMs like these.

Edit to fix terrible link issue.

rage

Do you not understand that we are proposing additional implants to exist, simply not learning ones?

Reduced jump clone timers would work in a pinch, but in my opinion learning implants are dumb and, well, nobody has come forward with a reasonable objection to their removal, just forum alts parroting "RISK RISK RISK" crap.

It does sound reasonable like that.

I personally like that dying and losing a pod is a big deal, but if they replaced the learning attributes with more combat stats, then there would still be a good reason to get implants.

Hi, this isn't about combat implants (or hardwirings) at all, or about faction implant sets, this is about learning implants exclusively.

Near as can tell, the jump clone timer is helpful for keeping folk from bouncing from one end of space to the other at will and with no consequences. Sort of like the old jump bridges, come to think of it; at least, that was the argument made for nerfing them. But anyways.

Essentially, the current system encourages players, especially nullsec and lowsec residents, to develop a "home base," because it prevents a nullsec resident from bouncing to high-sec at will to grind ISK, then instantly jumping back to null for a fleet op, or jump cloning for a fleet op in Stain and then jumping back to Geminate to run sanctums. So currently, jump cloning has moderate drawbacks, and forces a player to weigh whether jump cloning is worth it, or whether he should wait or find an alternate route for accomplishing what he wants. Removing the timer might lead more players to live in high-sec and only jump clone up for major fleets, reducing null population. Or it might not, for those players who already have high-sec alts grinding missions or incursions. I do know that it'd be nice to be able to hop down to high-sec once in a while for PvE without worrying about missing a fleet op.

Also not sure whether removing the learning implants is good or bad, if only because they probably serve as a useful ISK and LP sink. The big issue with learning skills was that they (1) were functionally mandatory and (2) kept players from getting into ships and doing fun stuff early on because they felt compelled to train learning skills. Learning implants aren't considered mandatory, because their effects are relatively small, to the point where players who actively PvP won't bother to inject implants into the game, the training time for them is fairly short, and the +1 to +3 implants are cheap enough that even active PvPers can afford to replace one or two of them, while new players can probably save up enough to buy them without it significantly affecting their gameplay, if at all. At least, I had no issue affording a full set of +3 implants when I started, and a set of +4 implants was a nice goal once I got into a battleship.

Those at risk of losing implants through PvP have to make a choice between faster training time or losing ISK when podded. But that's fairly similar to the effect learning implants had on new players, even if older players should be able to balance cost and benefit better, so I wouldn't consider it a terrible loss for the game if learning implants were removed. If attributes are boosted as well, then it would definitely be a minor benefit for those who actively PvP, though doubt it would really affect newer players all that much.

Removing attributes themselves sounds kind of messy, and I'm not sure who it would really benefit, if anyone. New players already start off with a generic attribute distribution, and so aren't locked into anything. Nor does the game force a player to remap attributes. This character spent two years with an even attribute distribution, because I had no real idea what I would train even two months down the road and didn't want to be locked into a training plan; even though others were training faster than this character, I don't think attributes or remap timers really hurt me in any way, or stopped me from having fun, but maybe I'm just an oddball. In general, I like meaningful choice, and it seems as though attributes and remaps provide that -- a player who knows what he wants can remap and train for it quickly, while a player who doesn't can stick with an even attribute distribution and train slightly slower, but with the option of training for something else at any time.

stopped playing eve because of learning implants. 5 times. In a row. Now i have two metal plates in my brain. Feels cold.

Once again, let me ask why people are still clinging to the arbitrary restrictions on their fun?

Replace them with more combat and useful implants so that people will still get podded with 100m implant sets if they want to win at war.

Problem solved.

I don't know if you are being clever or mentally challenged.

5/10

and if u remove the learning implants u can also remove the costs for re-upgrading ur clone.(or remove the clone feature altogether) cuz if u can calculate ur loses only in ship cost alot more peapole would stop being carebears and start some pvp

I just thought of something that was fairly interesting to me....

The guys here in Null want learning implants to go away. I also saw a few of you asking for more combat implants. My question is this...

If you already unwilling to lose 600m worth of +5 learning implants, how can you justify more high grade and low grade combat implants when they're going to cost 700-2b isk with Omega ? If you won't lose simple +5 implants then I highly doubt that you'll ever use combat implants.

I guess, but the 6-10 slot ones are expensive too, nobody is clamouring for them to get removed.

On one hand, it's about choice. You can put a +5 set and go PvP (theoretically) or you can stay docked, or you can just not use a +5 set at all and go anywhere, anytime you want. It is probably to give players some choices that those learning implants where implemented in the first place.

On the other hand, when most players see themselves required to choose always the same option, then the "choice" became illusory and that option became for all purposes a mandatory one.

Sometimes I wonder if the struggle, while the most apparent, is in fact just the second most important feature of the game. Apparently, a lot of players considers that progression, their sacred skill training, comes first.

I acknowledge the problem. People should not see themselves excluded from the multiplayer aspects of the game because this kind of stupid reasons. I'm just not so certain what the best solution is.

Agree. Learning implants is the main reason why I don't want to leave high-sec.