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Alliances pushing "No AFKing"

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SweetMelissa	Posted - 2006.10.14 03:44:00 - [1] This is posted by my alt for obvious reasons. The alliance that I am in is starting to push a "No AFK" rule. If you are logged into the game, you need to be active. They are throwing fits and threatening to kick people from the alliance if they are logged in and docked in a station. They haven't thrown anybody out yet, but has any alliance here actually done that? I am a little confused by this. To me, if your not paying for my accounts, well, then scrub off. I understand that alliance participation is a must, and believe me, we do. Do people not understand that this is a game, and that most people cannot spend every waking moment a the keys? Some people have families, and they work a job to support these families. I was just curious what other peoples views are. Feel free to flame away. I am ready for it.
Dilandil Ma'al	Posted - 2006.10.14 03:47:00 - [2] Edited by: Dilandil Ma''al on 14/10/2006 03:47:20 this is why I solo. some people treat this game like a job. seeing how hard my ex-corp co-leader worked was a little scary.
1of20	Posted - 2006.10.14 03:53:00 - [3] Yet another reason to go back to the NPC corps and fight against this whole asinine idea of "forcing" people into Player Corps.
Greekil Gallente HelpCorp United Eden's Fire	Posted - 2006.10.14 04:02:00 - [4] Solution: Join HCU All joking aside, though, I really don't see what the purpose of such a rule would be. 400x120@24000 bytes Maximum please. Mail [email protected] for more information. - Acario Vito
Talidorn Pandoras Mining Covanant	Posted - 2006.10.14 04:06:00 - [5] Originally by: SweetMelissa This is posted by my alt for obvious reasons. The alliance that I am in is starting to push a "No AFK" rule. If you are logged into the game, you need to be active. They are throwing fits and threatening to kick people from the alliance if they are logged in and docked in a station. They haven't thrown anybody out yet, but has any alliance here actually done that? I am a little confused by this. To me, if your not paying for my accounts, well, then scrub off. I understand that alliance participation is a must, and believe me, we do. Do people not understand that this is a game, and that most people cannot spend every waking moment a the keys? Some people have families, and they work a job to support these families. I was just curious what other peoples views are. Feel free to flame away. I am ready for it. That (and many other reasons) is why I left RISE... :) Was that my outside voice again??? BAD TALIDORN!!! So, really Sweet... you have to realize that when your alliance has X number logged in and dookie hits the fan and 1% of X gang up to stop dookie... ppl get peeved! (I think they should sod off... but meh! that's just me!) My suggestion... Do as my corp did... let your footfalls be the answer to their "LOG OFF OR DIE" crap. Sooner or later they might just realize that they need to pull their heads out! Best of luck in your dealings with an alliance... Hope it goes well for you. Tali
jbob2000 Gallente The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.14 04:07:00 - [6] Umm... If you're not at the keys for longer then like half an hour or something, why did you keep yourself logged in? See, in an alliance, people depend on you, just as you depend on others. Alliance leadership needs active players on so they can form gangs quickly to defend space, or go for an attack. If you leave eve on while you're out for dinner with your wife, then what use are you? Might as well be logged off. It gives false numbers as well.
Lifewire Caldari TunDraGon	Posted - 2006.10.14 04:09:00 - [7] lol - i guess they want to reduce server lag this way. I think the best way would be the whole alliances stay offline. I imagine Cyvok saying: miners log off, we have lag here vs BOB. My doom-device lags! Forum:http://www.tundragon.com/forum/ Movies:http://www.tundragon.com/pub/eveclips Killboard:http://www.tundragon.com/
Darth Revanant Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.10.14 04:09:00 - [8] There are many reasons for this kind of thing. One is security. Alts and spies will just sit gathering info . Another is accurate numbers. If an alliance needs to assemble a force quick, they should be able to look in alliance chat and get a good idea. You're right, they're not paying for your sub, so do what you want. Just not in their alliance. Rules are a part of any organization. You don't like them, leave. Another wonderful ability granted to you by you paying your sub. _______________ Recruitment Office
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.14 04:21:00 - [9] Edited by: zeKzn on 14/10/2006 04:22:53 Originally by: Dilandil Ma'al Edited by: Dilandil Ma''al on 14/10/2006 03:47:20 this is why I solo. some people treat this game like a job. seeing how hard my ex-corp co-leader worked was a little scary. i take 'games' like this as seriously as anyone you could find, and I still go afk for large swathes of time because there simply is nothing happening and nothing to do. as for why I dont log out, force of habit from other mmos and there's frankly little point. edit: granted most of the time that I say I'm afk I'm actually sitting in front of the comp not paying any attention at all to the eve window, but it ends up being the same. _______ zeKzn - Empire of Destiny mods go here :>
Pestillence Chav-Scum	Posted - 2006.10.14 04:36:00 - [10] Originally by: SweetMelissa Do people not understand that this is a game, and that most people cannot spend every waking moment a the keys? Some people have families, and they work a job to support these families. They arent asking you to. They are simply asking that if you are away from the game then please log out. You make it sound like they are asking you to be chained to your PC 23/7 and this is not the case. If you dont like it then leave the alliance.
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.14 04:39:00 - [11] Originally by: SweetMelissa Do people not understand that this is a game, and that most people cannot spend every waking moment a the keys? Some people have families, and they work a job to support these families. The other point is that "its a game" is absolutely meaningless. Some alliances will want you to be at the keys for a very long amount of time per day, and if you cant produce that, they dont want you in the alliance. If you cant take it you're in the wrong alliance, and thats not their fault. _______ zeKzn - Empire of Destiny mods go here :>
SweetMelissa	Posted - 2006.10.14 04:47:00 - [12] Originally by: jbob2000 Umm... If you're not at the keys for longer then like half an hour or something, why did you keep yourself logged in? See, in an alliance, people depend on you, just as you depend on others. Alliance leadership needs active players on so they can form gangs quickly to defend space, or go for an attack. If you leave eve on while you're out for dinner with your wife, then what use are you? Might as well be logged off. It gives false numbers as well. Originally by: Darth Revanant There are many reasons for this kind of thing. One is security. Alts and spies will just sit gathering info . Another is accurate numbers. If an alliance needs to assemble a force quick, they should be able to look in alliance chat and get a good idea. You're right, they're not paying for your sub, so do what you want. Just not in their alliance. Rules are a part of any organization. You don't like them, leave. Another wonderful ability granted to you by you paying your sub. Hmm, I understand what both of you are saying. Spies are not the issue, the alliance leaders know who I am and know who my alts are in game. Not to toot my own horn, but myself and my corpmates are...well, very influential in the alliance. I know that leaving the Alliance is an option but we all enjoy being this one. My corp is a larger corp, of over 250 people. They are not all alts either. I would say there are 210 active players in the game. Most we ever had online at one time though was 169 Its not that myself and others login right after downtime and stay logged into until the next DT. Some times I login and play for about an 1 1/2, and then I need to step away for 45mins. I come back and swap out a skill on an alt, or I manage my market supplies. It just seems that lately I keep reading in my alliance forums my corp is a bunch of AFKers blah blah blah. The KB say otherwise but now things are starting to come to a head. I was mainly trying to find out if all Alliances are this way, or just this one. Keep the responses comming if you can.
Aramova	Posted - 2006.10.14 04:57:00 - [13] Originally by: SweetMelissa Hmm, I understand what both of you are saying. Spies are not the issue, the alliance leaders know who I am and know who my alts are in game. Not to toot my own horn, but myself and my corpmates are...well, very influential in the alliance. If the leaders know who your alts are, why post with one and not just use your main? -- Save a Penguin!
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.10.14 04:59:00 - [14] Edited by: Telemicus Thrace on 14/10/2006 05:00:44 AFK or logged out, I don't see the difference really. Then again when the call goes out we all respond, unless we are making a sandwich, on a bio break, unconcious slumped over the keyboard or otherwise not active. Many times I have heard something along the lines of "sorry, I was making a sandwich. Where should I be and who are we killing?" on TS. AFK or logged out if you are unavailable then you are unavailable. Maybe it's an excuse and they have other reasons to give you a hard time. Originally by: Aramova Originally by: SweetMelissa Hmm, I understand what both of you are saying. Spies are not the issue, the alliance leaders know who I am and know who my alts are in game. Not to toot my own horn, but myself and my corpmates are...well, very influential in the alliance. If the leaders know who your alts are, why post with one and not just use your main? Probably so they don't give their alliance a bad name while having a discussion. Behaviour I would expect from any loyal alliance member who wants to discuss an internal matter in public. >> RECRUITING <<
Erotic Irony Sturm und Drang	Posted - 2006.10.14 05:02:00 - [15] Was it ASCN? Do tell! ___ Are you ready?
Kristoffer Amarr Murder-Death-Kill Blood Raiders Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.14 05:15:00 - [16] Simple. Your alliance wants to know how many pilots are active and availible if needed for combat gangs. Staying AFK at the keyboard inflates alliance chat numbers and just makes it painful for an FC to try and get a gang together. Do your alliance a favor and log out.
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.14 05:18:00 - [17] I think this is more about frustration than anything else. You probably had someone attack you, and the key players for defence were pro-long afk and your side lost the fight. So in anger they did this rule. ----------- Management and Leadership û The Eve-online Guide
Durvaul Caldari SAS Strike Team	Posted - 2006.10.14 08:38:00 - [18] Originally by: Kristoffer Simple. Your alliance wants to know how many pilots are active and availible if needed for combat gangs. Staying AFK at the keyboard inflates alliance chat numbers and just makes it painful for an FC to try and get a gang together. Do your alliance a favor and log out. LOL, its quite simple really, however many respond to the call is how many are active My account - my subscribtion, u dont pay it, i do, simple OP is right, its pure crap
Emsee	Posted - 2006.10.14 08:50:00 - [19] Originally by: Durvaul Originally by: Kristoffer Simple. Your alliance wants to know how many pilots are active and availible if needed for combat gangs. Staying AFK at the keyboard inflates alliance chat numbers and just makes it painful for an FC to try and get a gang together. Do your alliance a favor and log out. LOL, its quite simple really, however many respond to the call is how many are active No its just how many can be bothered to pvp while others just want to sit around and mine/npc while important alliance ops are going on.
Major Stormer Caldari Demon Womb Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.14 08:53:00 - [20] Originally by: SweetMelissa This is posted by my alt for obvious reasons. The alliance that I am in is starting to push a "No AFK" rule. If you are logged into the game, you need to be active. They are throwing fits and threatening to kick people from the alliance if they are logged in and docked in a station. They haven't thrown anybody out yet, but has any alliance here actually done that? I am a little confused by this. To me, if your not paying for my accounts, well, then scrub off. I understand that alliance participation is a must, and believe me, we do. Do people not understand that this is a game, and that most people cannot spend every waking moment a the keys? Some people have families, and they work a job to support these families. I was just curious what other peoples views are. Feel free to flame away. I am ready for it. Leave the alliance. I would if mine pushed a stupid rule like that and im not afraid to say it. People need to remember this is a game, and real life comes before that, therefore being afk is important. (I love my Alliance Leadership, they dont suck with rules like this :P ) -------------------------- Above post is my opinion only and does not represent my corp/alliance.
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.10.14 08:56:00 - [21] It's fairly understandable from the point of view of somone who is expected to organise local defence. There are few things more frustrating than having a fairly large corpchat and yet only a couple of people responding becuase everyone else is AFK leaving you to do nothing. It also makes your side look like they are cowering in the station and refusing to engage. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.10.14 09:01:00 - [22] "Solution: Join HCU" LOL mass war decs inc!
El Verbatim	Posted - 2006.10.14 09:18:00 - [23] Originally by: Wild Rho It's fairly understandable from the point of view of somone who is expected to organise local defence. There are few things more frustrating than having a fairly large corpchat and yet only a couple of people responding becuase everyone else is AFK leaving you to do nothing. It also makes your side look like they are cowering in the station and refusing to engage. Works both ways, if lots of people are in local, others might not be tempted to disrupt mining operations because of all the corpmates/alliancemates in local... however, if they notice that only the mining guys are in local.... :-)
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics	Posted - 2006.10.14 09:41:00 - [24] Gee's. The fact you guys are arguing over this just reinforces the point. Giving reason why it should be acceptable, i just can't belive it... just how narrow minded can you get. Seeing things like this.. the op and some of the responces just hammers it into my head of why i don't and why iv'e no desire ever to.. join an alliance again. Im a name, not a number ect ______
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.14 09:42:00 - [25] its quite simple if youre not active then log out. If youre active make youreself available - alliances run their alliance the way they wish to u dont have to be their - leadership rules then they enforce those rules if u dont play thier way then other options are available to them and u and kicking is one method Yes spies and intel gathering are a key reason.
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.14 09:43:00 - [26] if you know your gonna be afk for more than a few minutes, why not log off? it does not take too long logging in. I dunno, it's kinda a two way street. alliances want to know who is online, and expect them to help. But yes, players cannot sit at keys every second, things sometimes come up. Personally, if I know I'm gonna be afk for 10 minutes or more, I log. No reason not too. But i know people who stay ingame AFK while they are off at work, and they don;t have computer ccess at work, and that's just frustrating when getting things together. Personally, would not mind if CCP gave an afk tag, where your pic gets a tag if you spend 5 minutes with no mods running, no station services running, so corp and alliance members can see who is actually at their computer. so if your running a mod, or checking market, in escrows or refinery tab, you sho as active. Doing absolutly nothing, you show afk.
Admiral Feelgood Even-Flow	Posted - 2006.10.14 09:47:00 - [27] Edited by: Admiral Feelgood on 14/10/2006 09:47:15 Originally by: Rafein Personally, would not mind if CCP gave an afk tag, where your pic gets a tag if you spend 5 minutes with no mods running, no station services running, so corp and alliance members can see who is actually at their computer. so if your running a mod, or checking market, in escrows or refinery tab, you sho as active. Doing absolutly nothing, you show afk. I would like this, there's nothing I hate more than people forgeting to say brb or afk and me just rambling on like an idiot for 5 minutes then being all :( when I figure it out. EDIT: Also only the active players get included in the little number in the chat window tab.
Amira Silvermist Ubiqua Seraph	Posted - 2006.10.14 10:07:00 - [28] Edited by: Amira Silvermist on 14/10/2006 10:07:41 This policy is crap in IMO. The alliance has the same number of active pilots, no matter if logged out or afk. A spy that stays silent all the time is noticed faster then a real infilitrator. Plus the main argument: If I stay logged in and afk for a few minutes instead of logging off I dont need to ask what happend in the last X minutes. (while people are busy fighting outside the station) An afk tab would help I agree.
Skarsnik Caldari A.W.M	Posted - 2006.10.14 10:35:00 - [29] Originally by: jbob2000 Umm... If you're not at the keys for longer then like half an hour or something, why did you keep yourself logged in? See, in an alliance, people depend on you, just as you depend on others. Alliance leadership needs active players on so they can form gangs quickly to defend space, or go for an attack. If you leave eve on while you're out for dinner with your wife, then what use are you? Might as well be logged off. It gives false numbers as well. I must admit, I thought this might stem from another daft rule being brought up by KOS leadership, once again showing how inept they are. Those that think forcing people to log because they are afk is a good idea think again, especially if you get them kicked for it. Hypothetically speaking, what 'IF' the person had to run afk for a screaming child that had hurt themselves forcing them to run like a gazelle. Would you blame them and kick them from the alliance because they didn't think 'Oh I must not go afk without logging, sod my child that might be injured and need my help, my alliance comes first' Some people need to start realising this is a 'GAME' and that the average age of players in EVE is 27/28 and by that age most have families and a 'Life' I have to leave my account afk, numerous times for numerous reasons, rules like this make me glad we are not in alliance, or shouldI say an alliance with barmy rules like this. ------------- EVE-CCG Pre-orders EVE-Ink Tattoo Project
Elgar Lightfoot Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2006.10.14 10:52:00 - [30] It's your money, you can do whatever you like in EVE (so long as it's within the rules). Thats my view anyway, and that of my corp. The day I pay your subs is the day I'll expect to be able to order you about.
OldPueblo Gallente Defenders of Order New Eden Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.14 10:57:00 - [31] I login and go afk all the time, sometimes for several hours. Why? Because then I can see what chatter I missed in alliance and corp. Reduces the whole "whats going on" catchup time necessary otherwise. As said above, if people don't respond then they aren't active. If they are active and just don't want to respond, having them logoff doesn't solve the issue that you have dead weight in the alliance. If you want an accurate count of active people, then form a gang and keep it going so that you always know who's willing to jump out there at the drop of a hat.
Gonada Gallente Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:01:00 - [32] ahh, so you carebears finally show your true colors. simply pathetic. fyi: to be in an alliance , a corp, is to be part of something. if you weak, self serving wimps dont want that, then why are you in the corp? alliance? ect? ahh thats right, you want to enjoy the benefits. you should go back to npc corps, sounds like your useless anyways. -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
Caletha	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:04:00 - [33] To be honest, I would like CCP to implent a rule that if your AFK in station for longer then 30 minutes, that Eve itself will boot you from the game. Its not good for their 'people online' numbers but at least it'll give a better indication of actual active people. Every other game that I know has a idle-kick time implemented, why not Eve.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:05:00 - [34] Originally by: Rafein if you know your gonna be afk for more than a few minutes, why not log off? it does not take too long logging in. I dunno, it's kinda a two way street. alliances want to know who is online, and expect them to help. But yes, players cannot sit at keys every second, things sometimes come up. Personally, if I know I'm gonna be afk for 10 minutes or more, I log. No reason not too. But i know people who stay ingame AFK while they are off at work, and they don;t have computer ccess at work, and that's just frustrating when getting things together. Personally, would not mind if CCP gave an afk tag, where your pic gets a tag if you spend 5 minutes with no mods running, no station services running, so corp and alliance members can see who is actually at their computer. so if your running a mod, or checking market, in escrows or refinery tab, you sho as active. Doing absolutly nothing, you show afk. Start flame Ever done a flight longer than 5 minutes? Whitout the ista for the route? No running mod, no escrow checking, no refinery. Maybe we all should check market but it partially block the screen. End flame More to the point: I can be AFK (usually while moving in high security) for a good number of reasons. But I keedp EVE running because: 1) I still jump from system to system along my route; 2) I can scroll the chat log when I return and see what happened in the time I was AFK without need to ask: What happened? There is a fight? with who? Where? to people probably busy with other matters. Or I can be in station looking the market and putting up buying/selling orders with a good number of windows open and not noticing the little blinking light.
Fren Mallow Gallente Bluestar Enterprises	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:13:00 - [35] I'm curious.. In every good chat, there are symbols for people, who are unaviable - afk - why hasn't eve such a symbol/mark?! I mean, besides the green/red lamp.. a simple yellow or blue lamp would be enough. Just RMB on your avatar, selecting AFK and in every place, where your small pic comes up with the lamp it shows that you're afk. I want such a feature, since I play eve and have to type in 'afk' in every damn chat-window. The other point is, that only people who are allready online with you and can read your chat KNOW that you're afk. Anybody, who loggs on after you, dosn't know anything about your status.. Why can't we have a Real-Life-Busy-Lamp, like we have a Off-/Online-Lamp?! Do we really need 3rd party Software for this? Greets Fren
eveplayer11	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:15:00 - [36] no afk rule? LoL has to be a very small alliance, and i can agree it can be a good rule if its a pvp alliance that are very focused and wants its players to be the same. for a big alliance these kinds of rules are impossible to have. 23/7 afkers sucks and should be kicked anyway so the rule is obsolete except for elite pvp alliances that dont have the numbers but have the will
Labratory Rat	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:18:00 - [37] I used to be in an alliance that tried to dictate how players spend their game time. Weekends must been spent either mining for the alliance or as part of an alliance fleet. It was forbidden to spend weekends ratting or mining for yourself. You were allowed to do these during the week, unless there was some sort of alliance op on, which were most evenings when we were at war. If there was an alliance op going on and you couldn't take part (often it would take several hours commitment) the alliance leaders would forbid you from logging on. (A webpage was set up so fellow corp mates can report those who log on and don't take part in sanctioned activities.) While I understand the importance of members contributing to an alliance and not being leeches, this all meant that there was no benefit to being in the alliance, you couldn't mine or rat to make isk. There was no real PvP as alliance ops consisted of spending several hours sitting at gates while the rest of the alliance removes POSes or takes over stations, usually for someone elses alliances. The final straw was when the leadership set up a webpage demanding that members justify their place in the corp by getting 5 vouches from other members that you should be allowed to stay in the corp. While I was easily vouched for, I did see the ridiculousness of the situation. I'd spend months doing nothing but serve the alliance, giving up my weekends to be bored out of my mind mining or spend countless hours sitting at gates. And I saw no benefit for myself, then to have the leaders demand why members should deserve to be continued to be treated like this. So now I don't bother with alliances at all. This all happened in the second alliance I was a member off. The first one was co-run by a headcase that tried to forbid people from going back to empire. He threatened to kick a friend of mine when he saw him in Jita, claiming that he must be a spy for the allianceÆs enemies.
Xalek Ki	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:20:00 - [38] It's exactly because this is a game, and should be fun, that rules like this make sense to me. Running an alliance is a lot of work, and a lot of it isn't any fun. The rest of us get to have our fun because there are those willing to do the work of organizing these alliances. Rules like this are designed to make things easier on the people running the alliance, so that they can actually have some fun too. :P Logging out when you know you're going to be afk for while causes the following problems for you- - you have to press the escape button and click on the quit button - you have to wait a few moments to load back up when you want to play again Not Logging out when you know you're going to be afk for a while causes the following problems for an alliance leader- - Spy theories. Whether you specifically or not, having people afk in stations will cause somebody to think somebody is a spy. Whether they are or not, just people thinking it makes people irritable, and lowers morale. - Delay in spontaneous ops. An alliance leader with an alliance that frequently has a lot of afk members never really knows how many people they have to work with. Any kind of organized op has to wait a lot longer to collect those present and giving everybody a chance to show up before deciding that they're afk and not coming. No afkers allows a leader to look at alliance numbers, call everybody together, and get going as soon as they're all there, because they know there's nobody else coming. - General morale killer. When alliance support is needed badly, nothing kills alliance morale more than seeing poor participation. If you have 300 alliance members online and only 40 people show up to defend the homeland, you've got 40 people mad at their alliance. If 40 people show up for a mining op that is mandatory for the sake of the alliance, while 260 people sit "afk", you've got another 40 angry members. It doesn't matter how many of them actually are afk, when people see numbers like that, they're going to assume a lot of people are there and just don't want to help. - Cleaning the fat. We all know there are a lot of freeloaders out there, joining alliances for a free ride and safe access to 0.0 resources, that won't lift a finger to help the alliance. An alliance can't be well run with a large amount of these kinds of people, and it's important to get rid of them. Having a lot of afk people often makes it a lot more difficult for a leader to figure out who's a freeloader and who's just afk. - Probably other reasons that I can't think of because I don't run an alliance. :P Sure, I don't know your alliance, and maybe their motives are completely different. Maybe they're too harsh on their policy. Certainly emergencies come up and you forget or don't have time to log out. You have to admit though, even if you only agree with one of the reasons I gave for being afk to be a pain for an alliance leader, that considering the "great inconvenience" that logging out causes you when you're not playing anyway, it's not a lot to ask of somebody. Show a little courtesy to the people "working" so that you can have your organized 0.0 alliance. Personally if I was an alliance leader, I'd boot people who didn't follow this policy. Not because not following it caused such incredible trouble that the alliance couldn't function, but because being unwilling to follow such a simple request shows a complete lack of respect, and I wouldn't want people like that in my alliance. How can I count on somebody to do something important, when I can't even count on them to press escape and click quit when they stop playing? :P
Mercatoria	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:20:00 - [39] If you are AFK, are you really playing? 10-minute AFK'ness is alright. If it's more you might as well be logged off. Why not do the alliance a favor and actually log off if you're not going to play? From where I'm standing you're doing everyone a favor by doing so. Less stress on the server and more accurate info for alliance leadership when planning attacking and defending. Why whine about a rule that, when it comes down to it, really has no effect on you but can improve things for the people you play with?
eveplayer11	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:01:00 - [40] Originally by: Xalek Ki - Cleaning the fat. We all know there are a lot of freeloaders out there, joining alliances for a free ride and safe access to 0.0 resources, that won't lift a finger to help the alliance. An alliance can't be well run with a large amount of these kinds of people, and it's important to get rid of them. Having a lot of afk people often makes it a lot more difficult for a leader to figure out who's a freeloader and who's just afk. well.. newer players are always like that and they need homes and time to learn how to adapt and help out. if an alliance do not want to get them started or interested the right way they will be freeloaders forever, then its the corps fault for either not making them interested enough, welcomed, or get enough help. most alliances take in people and then they leave them alone. it is up for the new members to interact and get used to the corp, if someone doesnt want freeloaders and invites this way like most do then its their fault for inviting almost anyone if he/she has the right sp/skills. more members > skilled members most are focused with getting new members and increasing in force, the quality is not a consern in EvE. its the corps fault from the beginning for being greedy for members and good members shouldnt be punished. however 30min logoff timer if afk would be nice, and i think more people would spend more time in the game then, learning things the right way and making better members for corps that take care of their members
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:21:00 - [41] Imo, if you want to go afk, do it. Inside an alliance you have a certain commitement but in the end its up to the player that decides how he plays. If an alliance/corp starts to dictate your playstyle, I¦d leave them. Ship lovers click here
Jack Brimstone Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:25:00 - [42] Quote: I am a little confused by this. To me, if your not paying for my accounts, well, then scrub off. This seems to be a little disingenuous, you joined an organisation that has rules, and -- implicitly, the right of the leaders to create new rules (which they seem to have done in this case). Alliance leaders (at least 0.0 alliances with fixed assets in space) don't have to pay for your accounts in order for you to follow their rules -- you agreed to the rules, and the right of the alliance executor to make new ones (hopefully with consultation with the member corps, but not always) when you joined the alliance. By all means, kick up a stink during when the idea is proposed if you really disagree, but once it has been adopted, you either follow it, or you leave the alliance (it's called "Collective Responsibility"). Nothing is forcing you to be in an alliance, it's the choice of the member corps and the choice of those individual members. Everyone saying "omg they suck, how can they force you to do that?!1" is kind of missing the point. You chose to be bound by rules (and accept potential new ones) when you joined. Nobody is telling you how to play Eve, they are just telling you what you need to do to stay in your larger grouping of players. God knows there are plenty of alliances to choose from if you really loathe it. An alliance executor corp has every right to say "everyone must mine for a t least an hour a day listening to Neil Diamond, or they get kicked". It would be a pretty small alliance mind. -----------------------------------------------------
Roy Batty68	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:38:00 - [43] In other games it's possible to set a flag to indicate to others that you are AFK... How hard is that? Seems like it's a pretty simple bit of functionality that EVE is lacking to me.
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:45:00 - [44] I guess you need an AFK flag in Chat. How hard is that to do actually? ----------- Management and Leadership û The Eve-online Guide
Uggster Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:46:00 - [45] Originally by: Xalek Ki All Good Stuff When I was an FC pretty much full time I used to HATE it when people would be docked or SS'ed and not be playing. Apart from not giving an acurate picture of you potentual gang members for whatever job it also ment that if bad guys were looking about on the map to see where they were going to hunt they would see a nice blob and head there. And as for those that told me they would change their playing style when I payed their subs, well, what are people like that doing in an alliance anyway. I would kick them after 3 warnings unless they had a bloody good reason for afking. _______________________________________________ Sig removed as inappropriate- Tirg
Tornan Minmatar Oberon Incorporated Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:48:00 - [46] I understand why alliance members want youto log off as it gives a better estimate of availble forces. But it would be nice if CCP allowed a AFK flag, so that whe you scroll down aliance chat you see who is actually on and who is not.
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2006.10.14 13:05:00 - [47] the biggest problem no afk flag is going to solve is "doing the chores". Usually if you announce this kind of task (i.e. freighter escort, hauling loads of minerals or dangerous combat operations which will cause many losses) usually many ppl will just go afk with the "let someone else do it ill just pretend im not here" attitude. An alliance wants ppl who work together as a team and who stick through all tasks together. The no afk rule imo is supposed to weed out freeloaders. If youre in chat and not in gang ull have some explaining to do why ure not helping with a boring task. Without the no afk rule you could simply state "im afk" and go on with marketstuff or npcing (afking at a pos wont show you as docked and with noone in system you could chain away in the belts without anyone noticing and pretend ure afk). In short: a) dont like rules ? Leave corp or alliance. b) wanna freeload and not carry the weight ? Leave corp or alliance c) wanna set your own rules `? make your own corp and dont join an alliance. a lesson i learned in the first year of playing eve. Rules only go as far as you accept them. If you dont accept them set sails for a new area / corp / alliance / playstyle.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.10.14 13:15:00 - [48] Push comes to shove, AFK happens. I might be playing and a friend will call my phone- do I instantly log off in case my mere presence in game irritates someone? Of course not- I just answer the phone, go have a nice conversation, and then come back 30 mins later. Maybe when I'm off the phone, I decide to use the toilet and make a cup of tea before returning- thats 45 minutes I'm AFK. I've never been in a group that cares particularly- why should it bother anyone if I'm logged in? It's not like I'm interfereing with them. If theres one GOOD reason why I shouldn't be logged in when I'm AFK, I havn't heard it yet, -----------------------------------------------
Sean Dillon Caldari Privateers	Posted - 2006.10.14 13:17:00 - [49] Sucks that ASCN has this policy. The leaders of ASCN tell you not to do this, not to do that. They threath there members like the yare not allowed to have a free will, that these players are mostly adults too. Thats why I left them.
jbob2000 Gallente The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.14 13:35:00 - [50] There has to be a line, obviously. If something grabs your attention for 5 minutes, then I would say that is fair game for going afk. 5 minutes is nothing in eve. But for example, if you have to run to the store, why not just log out? It takes and extra 5 seconds to so, and you would avoid the entire conflict with the rule. A screaming child who has hurt himself is reason enough to go afk, and i'm sure alliance leadership would understand that, at least, I would. KOS doesnt have this rule, I was just trying to shed some light as a leader as to why there might be a rule like this. For ASCN, it might be different seeing as how they just entered into war with BoB and would probably like as many players active as possible.
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.14 14:01:00 - [51] Originally by: Venkul Mul Start flame Ever done a flight longer than 5 minutes? Whitout the ista for the route? No running mod, no escrow checking, no refinery. Maybe we all should check market but it partially block the screen. End flame More to the point: I can be AFK (usually while moving in high security) for a good number of reasons. But I keedp EVE running because: 1) I still jump from system to system along my route; 2) I can scroll the chat log when I return and see what happened in the time I was AFK without need to ask: What happened? There is a fight? with who? Where? to people probably busy with other matters. Or I can be in station looking the market and putting up buying/selling orders with a good number of windows open and not noticing the little blinking light. actually, i can't remember the last time i autopiloted 20 jumps through Empire and stayed and watched it the entire time. Sides all you get is little tag saying afk, then as soon as you move or do something in game, it disappears. It's not logging you out,it's just a note to see who is active.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.14 14:13:00 - [52] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 14/10/2006 14:13:25 Instead of telling people not to be afk so that you know how many of the active ones are not showing up when and where they need to, why don't you simply get people that will show up when and where you need them ? Considered invitation > recruiting every tom, **** and harry. And it's also self-perpetuating. Considered invitation as recruitment policy invariably makes your corp stronger and thus more likely to be able to get the good guys in. What's left will abnd together in those alliances that have the tendency to spontaniously dissolve when confronted with an armed enemy. Old blog
Xs 142	Posted - 2006.10.14 14:30:00 - [53] In the words of a really booksmart man: "A ruler can never get more power than that he risks to lose it if he doesn't fear his people, so remember, you are the people, and you rule the ruler." Don't fall under the illusion that they're in charge Originally by:* Oveur Eternally yours, The other dumbass
Rawr Cristina Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.14 14:43:00 - [54] this thread pretty much sums up the reasons I don't bother with alliances anymore. Sometimes, I want to pvp. Sometimes, I want to be on OPs. Sometimes, I want to do my own thing an alliance that questions me and what im doing every time im not on ops is one that makes me feel as if im not allowed to play the game the way I want, and that the alliance owns my soul so long as im logged in. Even more stupid are the policies some have - no NPCing, must hand over ALL minerals and refineables to corp, must pay monthly tax, etc - which nromally i wouldnt have a problem with, but when im not allowed to actually spend the time to MAKE that monthly tax, or buy myself another ship or whatnot I start feeling as if the alliance dosent care about its members and just wants free fighters. result? I leave
Zarquon Beeblebrox Liberate Vos Ex Inferis	Posted - 2006.10.14 14:47:00 - [55] With alts and spys everywhere (thank god , it make the game funny) there aint very strange that alliances or corps with huge member mass enforce rules to battle spys. If you dont like it leave your alliance and or corp. Dont really see why you want to force your view of a game play on your corp/alliance when you can just leave them and find players that play the game the way you like it. -- Lady Beeblebrox
Lord Dynastron	Posted - 2006.10.14 15:08:00 - [56] Ok,,, This response is almost off-topic...since I am not in an alliance....but... I don't log off when afk because I loose out on any local, corp, and security team chat that takes place while I am gone. Granted, I am usually not afk more then an hour or so.... chat scrolls off the screen eventually anyway. I do a lot of Eve-Playing during commercials...
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.14 15:42:00 - [57] i would have thought eve, of all games, would have less of the "wah its a game so i can be selfish" crowd. If you want to take it as casually as that, thats your right. But its not your right to dictate how seriously anyone else takes the game, so stop spouting "its a game" as if it means anything. _______ zeKzn - Empire of Destiny mods go here :>
Solothores	Posted - 2006.10.14 16:03:00 - [58] And ppl are still wondering why the majority of ppl doesn't even care a single thought about being part of the epic 0.0 kindergarten... it seems that the experience of feeling like a lapdog on an armchair dictator only attracts a minority... the current population distribution just underlines, that understanding of leadership seems to be a very rare thing in eve. It's about integrating ppl and having a direction and not about having success in pseudo military pee-contests. Cheers Solo
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2006.10.14 16:07:00 - [59] Originally by: SweetMelissa This is posted by my alt for obvious reasons. The alliance that I am in is starting to push a "No AFK" rule. If you are logged into the game, you need to be active. They are throwing fits and threatening to kick people from the alliance if they are logged in and docked in a station. They haven't thrown anybody out yet, but has any alliance here actually done that? I am a little confused by this. To me, if your not paying for my accounts, well, then scrub off. I understand that alliance participation is a must, and believe me, we do. Do people not understand that this is a game, and that most people cannot spend every waking moment a the keys? Some people have families, and they work a job to support these families. I was just curious what other peoples views are. Feel free to flame away. I am ready for it. name and shame or give it up.
Araxmas Caldari Imperial Space Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.14 16:23:00 - [60] There's a log-out feature?
Tarazed Aquilae	Posted - 2006.10.14 16:33:00 - [61] IÆve got some of the same problems with my alliance. The biggest one to me is that they arenÆt happy with me ratting for ISKà Well, what do they think IÆm using that ISK for? I need to buy clones for PvP loses, I need to buy and equip shipsà (Yes, I can always get a frigate out of the corporate hangar. Then IÆve got a multimillion dollar clone being protected by a tech I fitted instapop frigate. (Yea, thatÆs a real money saver for me.) Sorry, but I canÆt afford to PvP in a frigate. ItÆs too expensive. I need to buy skills so that IÆm a better combat pilot, and high end skills get expensive. And I need the reserve cash so that IÆm able to risk (and replace) a decently fitted ship in combat. I need reserves of decent guns and modules so that I can quickly get back into action, not spend a frickin week trying to scrounge up enough gear to get back into action. (I will say that IÆm getting good at equipping a ship with picked over scraps.) IÆm not using the ISK I make to buy stacks or Exotic Dancers so something, IÆm using it to support the alliance. Right now IÆm flat broke. Well, I have enough for another clone and full insurance on my replacement ship. I could probably go begging to some of the rich people in the corp. and get a big ISK donation to keep me afloat. But IÆm not a beggar and I donÆt play games to be a charity case. For the people with other sources of income itÆs not a big loss to go gate camp for a while. They make money while they are sitting there. But for me, every hour that I sit at a gatecamp is about 10,000,000 less ISK I have to fit out a fighting ship. IÆm not arguing the need to secure the borders and all. But a 20 player gatecamp that lasts for 5 hours cost the alliance at least a billion ISK in lost productivity had everyone gone mining or ratting. I know the gate camps are essential for security and all, but if you multiply that by four or five times a week and you are talking real money. 200 million will buy and insure a very nicely fitted BS. Having twenty more battleships available for a weekend fleet op would probably mean more than a perpetual gate camp.
Solothores	Posted - 2006.10.14 16:35:00 - [62] Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde All the people claiming that this is why they don't join 0.0 alliances are pathetic. It's a very small handful of alliances that impose rules this strict. Stop fooling yourself, you're in an NPC corp because you want to be. Stop making excuses, there is no shame in staying in an NPC corp if that is how you want to play. It was never just about the rules, it's about the mindset that results into such rules, sooner or later. But I agree, everyone to his own way of play. Cheers Solo
Xs 142	Posted - 2006.10.14 16:35:00 - [63] Originally by: Araxmas There's a log-out feature? Only for quitters. Originally by: Oveur Eternally yours, The other dumbass
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:11:00 - [64] Originally by: Solothores But I agree, everyone to his own way of play. Didn't sound like you espoused this view in your last post. Do you only apply said rule to players, not corps/alliances? _______ zeKzn - Empire of Destiny mods go here :>
Xalek Ki	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:13:00 - [65] member 1 : "hey wtf, the market is out of isotopes again" logistics officer : "ok ok, I'm on it" member 2 "damnit, that pos 86bv-y just shot down my shuttle! Fix the damn settings!" Logistics officer : "sorry yeah it's having some bugs, we'll get it packed and redeployed" member 2 "you're buying me a new shuttle" logistics officer : "fine" member 1 : "How the hell am I supposed to keep my tower fueled if there's no mechanical parts on our market? I've only got 2 hours of fuel left!" logistics officer : "We've got a freighter coming in with fuel right now, should be here soon" member 2 : "hey member 1 is hogging the rats in this system" member 1 : "I was here first, sod off" member 1 : "200 man fleet incoming! Do something, I've got a triple throne spawn I'm chaining" logistics officer : "Ok, gathering a defense group" member 2 : "I'm not coming until you guys get rid of the repair costs at the station. No way I'm throwing my money away defending your sorry butt AND making you rich at the same time" logistics officer : "Hey, we're having a problem with too many people being afk too often, it's making organization a lot harder. Need you all to please try to make sure you log out if you're going to be afk for an extended period of time" member 1 : "hey man, chill out, it's just a game" member 2 : "lol, I pay my sub, I'll go afk if I want to" logistic officer sighs
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:18:00 - [66] Edited by: zeKzn on 14/10/2006 17:18:49 Quote: Epic comedy sketch involving logistics officer this man speaks gods own truth. _______ zeKzn - Empire of Destiny mods go here :>
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:18:00 - [67] Edited by: Ghoest on 14/10/2006 17:20:16 Obviously an irrational cry baby was upset that no one answered his call to arms. Making people log off wont fix his problem, but it does falsely make the fool feel like he did something about the problem. Wherever you went - here you are.
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:27:00 - [68] Ok this has gone on for long enough. Rather than take offence to being called pathetic, dictorial, a care carebear... or anything else.. designed to put me and others down for choosing not to be a part of it. Ill just raise a glass to you brave defenders of the online is life faith when im at the jazz club tonight with my friends. Have a good evening, be it pos seiges, fleet battles or supply running. Cheers ______
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:31:00 - [69] Edited by: zeKzn on 14/10/2006 17:32:10 Originally by: Galk Rather than take offence to being called pathetic, dictorial, a care carebear... or anything else.. designed to put me and others down for choosing not to be a part of it. Isn't that exactly what you're trying to do to them when you constantly remind them that "its a game," as if it means anything, or go on about how you "have a life"? Edit: and by you I dont mean you in particular _______ zeKzn - Empire of Destiny mods go here :>
Solothores	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:52:00 - [70] Originally by: zeKzn Originally by: Solothores But I agree, everyone to his own way of play. Didn't sound like you espoused this view in your last post. Do you only apply said rule to players, not corps/alliances? Really? And where specifically, did I break that rule in regards to corporations and alliances? In sharing my understanding of what excellence in leadership should result into? Cheers Solo
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:54:00 - [71] Originally by: Solothores Really? And where specifically, did I break that rule in regards to corporations and alliances? In sharing my understanding of what excellence in leadership should result into? Well, I didn't find any real specifics, but the general tone of the post sounded like an angry "they should allow for us casual players to be in their alliances too!" thing. If I was wrong then I apologize. But I dont think any level of excellent leadership will be able to overcome the rifts created when half of your membership has different goals than the other half. resident economics expert
James Snowscoran Caldari Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:16:00 - [72] Hi, guess what, alliances can make thier own rules. I'm confused, is the OP trying to say that - Alliances shouldn't be able to dictate rules to their members and those that try to do so should be punished by CCP? - Alliances that dictate rules to their members should be flamed mercilessly on the forums? - The rule sucks because it violates the OPs right to be afk as stated in the declaration of capsuleer rights? - The rule sucks because it will annoy off half the alliance's memberbase? - Ice cream sandwiches are superior to BLT sandwiches? - Alliance leaders should pay their members' subscriptions if they want to impose rules on them? -----
Bosie	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:31:00 - [73] I often go AFK for personal/family reasons, so I would tell the alliance guys pushing this to go **** themselves, unless they plan to pay my sub. Bosie. "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is ENGLAND." ...Winston
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:44:00 - [74] Originally by: Solothores And ppl are still wondering why the majority of ppl doesn't even care a single thought about being part of the epic 0.0 kindergarten... it seems that the experience of feeling like a lapdog on an armchair dictator only attracts a minority... the current population distribution just underlines, that understanding of leadership seems to be a very rare thing in eve. It's about integrating ppl and having a direction and not about having success in pseudo military pee-contests. I think it has more to do with resource distribution than anything else. The VAST majority of 0.0 and even low sec is largely worthless. The parts that aren't cant support a huge number of people and end up being fought over intensely. Put crokite in 90% of the 0.0 systems lvl 4 missions in similar to Cosmos (floating in space) and you would probably see a much larger dispersion of the population. Even I wouldn't risk much for....Kernite. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Iyanah Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:51:00 - [75] Originally by: jbob2000 Umm... If you're not at the keys for longer then like half an hour or something, why did you keep yourself logged in? See, in an alliance, people depend on you, just as you depend on others. Alliance leadership needs active players on so they can form gangs quickly to defend space, or go for an attack. If you leave eve on while you're out for dinner with your wife, then what use are you? Might as well be logged off. It gives false numbers as well. This is true, but it's when people get **ed 'cause you had a 10 minuite phone conversation, or decided to take a dump at the wrong moment. there are reasons people are AFK for shorter periods of time, and it's not their fault if the ** hits the fan (unless they did indeed go for a dump, in which case, they shouldn't go so close to a fan :s ) in that short period of time and they are called into action. ========================================== Iy
OldPueblo Gallente Defenders of Order New Eden Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.14 19:50:00 - [76] Edited by: OldPueblo on 14/10/2006 19:50:51 Whether or not you are logged in when you aren't available for an op makes no difference whatsoever to your alliance logistically. You should not rely on the numbers in the alliance tab if you want accuracy. If someone isn't available for an op, guess what they are still not available if they are logged off. Many alliances have industrial only people that have no fighting skills. Are you going to force them to logoff when they support the alliance back-end because they can't do an op? There are alts from second/third accounts in alliance many times, obviously not giving an accurate number of who physically is available. You gonna force your alts to logoff when they are possibly providing intel or as above doing industrial stuff supporting the allianc back-end? There could be someone logged in that for whatever legit reason is completely on the other side of the universe. "Hey dude I know you want to auto back to us over here, but logoff and do it later cuz we have an op right now. By the way I'm a moron." Or maybe someone only has 30 minutes of play before they have to go somewhere else in RL and they just want to squeeze a mission in or kill a few rats because they don't have time to commit to a four hour gatecamp or fleet op. As I said before, logging in though you are afk actually promotes alliance communication since you'll be able to see what you missed in alliance/corp. You might be a spy if you are logged in and afk? That' got to be the dumbest thing I've heard. A spy could also be active in all your ops, and actually should be if they are a good spy. Don't cripple your alliance due to extreme paranoia. The list goes on and on, and as far as I'm concerned there are far far more legit reasons to be logged in while afk then there are to force a logoff. If you want to maintain an accurate number of who's active for an op, start a gang. Start multiple gangs. Always have a gang. If someone has to go, they leave gang. If someone becomes avail for an op, they announce in alliance they want in a gang. Forcing logoffs stems from paranoia, powertrip leadership, and will only sow seeds of discontent in an alliance. There are mechanisms to accurately use your alliance membership other then controlling how they play their game. If you seek to control their account, you need to go read a book on leadership. If in fact they are dead weight, then that will become obvious when they never do anything to help that anyone knows of. Don't punish everyone though for the dead weight, they shouldn't be hard to discover.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.14 19:56:00 - [77] alliances should set down their rules off the bat to new members sure if a member contributes a lot and has to go afk then some might understand some might say log. Ie only be logged in if youre active and we can get a hold of u. Tho explain the reasons and if ppl are unhappy then they can leave or be removed If a member doesnt like something then they are just looking out for themselves kick em immediately and let em join some ohter lazy alliance Same goes for spies etc ok xxx player is always afk never shows on NPC kills or missions (corp tax contribution) they just sit there well then get everyone else in a seperate channel and if its war feed them incorrect information - if done properly it can be effective at luring an enemy into a trap etc.
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.14 19:58:00 - [78] What everyone should do in this situation is summon their least likely fears, project the worst-case scenario no matter how politically unrealistic and disregard any evidence to the contrary. Repeat until sufficiently panicked to altpost on the EvE-online forums. Following these steps is an integral part of alliance stability. Without mindless fearmongering, stupidity cannot properly catalyze and reach critical mass for nuclear dramabomb explosion. Thank you for doing your part.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.14 20:04:00 - [79] to the OP rejoin a newbie corp or another alliance that will allow u to go afk while u fail to help the alliance at all in their defense and suckle off their 0.0 teat. Yup all good
Karoth Tyu FATAL REVELATIONS	Posted - 2006.10.14 20:07:00 - [80] Edited by: Karoth Tyu on 14/10/2006 20:08:38 Most alliances that are enforcing rules like this do so out of sheer frustration with their members. When you have 300+ in your alliance channel, 60+ in corp channel, but only maybe 10-20 pilots defending your particular piece of space, *****downs like this are inevitable. Edit: apparently you can't say "cra-ck" on the forums
Dilandil Ma'al	Posted - 2006.10.14 20:07:00 - [81] Edited by: Dilandil Ma''al on 14/10/2006 20:09:22 Edited by: Dilandil Ma''al on 14/10/2006 20:08:38 Originally by: Mak'shar Karrde All the people claiming that this is why they don't join 0.0 alliances are pathetic. It's a very small handful of alliances that impose rules this strict. Stop fooling yourself, you're in an NPC corp because you want to be. Stop making excuses, there is no shame in staying in an NPC corp if that is how you want to play. of course it's not the only reason. but a lot of the reasons stem from one thing: in-game responsibilities, people dictating or at least pressuring on how you should spend your time. it's fine if this game is like a hobby to you and you really care about the politics etc. to me that's unacceptable. although I want to make it clear that I'm not bashing the ones who take this game very seriously; there are a lot of worse ways to spend your time.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.14 20:13:00 - [82] Originally by: Karoth Tyu Edited by: Karoth Tyu on 14/10/2006 20:08:38 Most alliances that are enforcing rules like this do so out of sheer frustration with their members. When you have 300+ in your alliance channel, 60+ in corp channel, but only maybe 10-20 pilots defending your particular piece of space, *****downs like this are inevitable. Edit: apparently you can't say "cra-ck" on the forums ive heard some that cant get certain members to assist or are thinking they are spies basically give me a couple of warnings then point an enemy "alt corp" to their location and pod em - have heard that this northern unnamed alliance tho its actually their CEO corp but they dont admit this. It does the dirty work like killing and podding members that dont follow the rules before kicking them out of the corp. I think this is a bad thing but then again it sorts out the real contributors to the lazy suckle off the fat types
OldPueblo Gallente Defenders of Order New Eden Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.14 20:15:00 - [83] Originally by: Miss Overlord to the OP rejoin a newbie corp or another alliance that will allow u to go afk while u fail to help the alliance at all in their defense and suckle off their 0.0 teat. Yup all good The OP said she/he does help, just as I do. Yes folks going afk while logged in sometimes and being an valuable contributor to your alliance are both possible with the same account! It ain't just crazy talk.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.14 20:18:00 - [84] to the OPs alliance they need to basically either shoot themselves in the foot or ..... have a actives channel and herd all the players into there. But yeah some of these alliances keep the good players and the rest end up somewhere else
Fubear	Posted - 2006.10.14 20:25:00 - [85] Nobody in this game has the right to tell you what to do, how to play, or what to think (and trust me, people will try). Of course this does not mean that the CEO of a corp or alliance cannot ask you to follow the rules of their corp. If you don't like the corp, then go somewhere else. Find a corp whose rules you can live with and join that instead. Screw anyone who tries to make you play any way you don't want to.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.14 20:55:00 - [86] Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot It's your money, you can do whatever you like in EVE (so long as it's within the rules). Thats my view anyway, and that of my corp. The day I pay your subs is the day I'll expect to be able to order you about. Not quite. I support the rights of corps and alliances to make rules, and _require_ that people follow them. In the ISS, we have a Charter which is basically RULES YOU MUST FOLLOW if you want to be in the alliance. I'm not saying I'll _make_ you follow 'em, but I will give you the choice between doing so, or leaving. I don't think it unreasonable for any organisational unit to do the same. Corp sets rules. If you don't like rules, leave corp, find or make a new one.
Myrrdin Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.14 21:13:00 - [87] Hmm, seems this can be summed up fairly succinctly:- If you don't like the rules your alliance sets, negotiate with the leadership or leave. Alliances which have rules which cause more people to leave than join, either change the rules or are wiped out... Evolution.
Hydraxian Momentum.	Posted - 2006.10.14 21:46:00 - [88] Seriously if a corp/alliance is making trouble for you just for being AFK leave... there are much more friendly alliances/Corps out there..... Signature hijacks ftw
Jarem Alistor Minmatar Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.14 21:51:00 - [89] You know I've been toying with the implementation of this idea over the last week or so. The if you're going AFK for an extended period of time, let's ay 30-45 min + please log out. Why? Overall morale for one. It's pretty bad when someone logs in and says hi and only gets one reply...because the other 7-8 people are afk/have been afk for a while now. Or I try to do something or talk to someone and, lo and behold, they're AFK and stay AFK for an hour or so. If CCP added an AFK flag to the game itself it wouldn't be a consideration but for right now it's frustrating. I know, at least at this point, I've yet to add too many rules to the corporation but I don't think that asking you to be an active participant in the game is too much. Shrugs. If you're going to be gone for 45 min+ then log out and log back on when you get back. I really don't understand what's wrong with asking for something like that really if it makes the overall corp stronger...because then the people who are shown in chat are the people that are actually there as opposed to having a bloated list with a lack of response overall. Then again it's true that the OP has the "right" as it were, to stay logged in should he/she wish to be as such when AFK... However he/she /did/ choose to join the corp/alliance which is beginning to enforce this rule. Coming from that standpoint I'd much rather enforce a rule such as that and have a higher overall morale while losing a member or two then not enforce it, have a lower morale and a higher member count - if only because, it seems at least from some of the replies, a portion of that higher member count would be logged on AFK anyway. Just how I'm reading things so far and coming from the standpoint of someone who's beginning to get frustrated with it myself, and I haven't even gotten to high level alliance ops yet. -Jare' ---- -Founder-
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.14 22:36:00 - [90] Edited by: Ab Initio on 14/10/2006 22:40:44 One reason for the rule is that this can have an effect on the morale of the alliance members out fighting. We all know that there are alts in the alliance, and we know people are AFK. But seeing 600 people in alliance chat and only 100 in a gang can still affect morale of the troops. If you're serious about being part of an alliance, I don't see logging out when you're not at the machine as such a horrible request. Alliance warfare is about morale more than anything else, and you being logged in and AFK, makes every loss of your mates hurt that much more. Your signature is inappropriate ( copyrighted material). - Tirg ^^ Might want to confirm that chief.
Dahak2150	Posted - 2006.10.14 22:53:00 - [91] Edited by: Dahak2150 on 14/10/2006 22:54:59 There really is no point to this rule. AFK or logged out, either way you're not there to assist. The only reason I can think of implementing this is to make you feel better, as in "X% of your people online helped." If you're online and AFK that just drags down the already meaningless percentage. ---------- My sig is boring.
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.14 22:59:00 - [92] Edited by: Ab Initio on 14/10/2006 22:59:46 Originally by: Dahak2150 Edited by: Dahak2150 on 14/10/2006 22:54:59 There really is no point to this rule. AFK or logged out, either way you're not there to assist. The only reason I can think of implementing this is to make you feel better, as in "X% of your people online helped." If you're online and AFK that just drags down the already meaningless percentage. It may be meaningless to you, but you will find it isn't meaningless to many of the other people in your alliance. I've been in alliances where we could see 300 people online, and 45 people would show up for a gang. It is terribly demoralising to see such a large discrepancy in those numbers, whether it logically should be or not.
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.14 23:02:00 - [93] the only issue I have is for people who play in windowed mode. if they're tabbed out for a few minutes to read something and miss the request, does that count as afk? It gets more and more unreasonable to ask people to log out the shorter their "afk" time is, and sometimes stuff just gets out of hand - leaving the computer for half a minute to go to the toilet and breaking your arm would be an extreme example, but I'm certain everyone has had something they intended to only take 1 or 2 minutes take over an hour at least once in their lives. resident economics expert
Abye Caldari Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:02:00 - [94] Noone serious would mind minutes of afk but I see people afk for hours (We had one sitting in approach mode at our ship maintenance array for 10 hours, people were really ****ed then ) Would it really that bad to log out if you go afk for hours ?
vache Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:13:00 - [95] Originally by: Talidorn Originally by: SweetMelissa This is posted by my alt for obvious reasons. The alliance that I am in is starting to push a "No AFK" rule. If you are logged into the game, you need to be active. They are throwing fits and threatening to kick people from the alliance if they are logged in and docked in a station. They haven't thrown anybody out yet, but has any alliance here actually done that? I am a little confused by this. To me, if your not paying for my accounts, well, then scrub off. I understand that alliance participation is a must, and believe me, we do. Do people not understand that this is a game, and that most people cannot spend every waking moment a the keys? Some people have families, and they work a job to support these families. I was just curious what other peoples views are. Feel free to flame away. I am ready for it. That (and many other reasons) is why I left RISE... :) Was that my outside voice again??? BAD TALIDORN!!! So, really Sweet... you have to realize that when your alliance has X number logged in and dookie hits the fan and 1% of X gang up to stop dookie... ppl get peeved! (I think they should sod off... but meh! that's just me!) My suggestion... Do as my corp did... let your footfalls be the answer to their "LOG OFF OR DIE" crap. Sooner or later they might just realize that they need to pull their heads out! Best of luck in your dealings with an alliance... Hope it goes well for you. Tali Yeah, sure Talidorn. Glad to see you're still alive, NOT! Oh did i say the quiet part aloud? But anyway, to SweetMelissa, if they try to pull threats like that, you're better of leaving them. No one, other than you can decide when you are and are not available at the keyboard. Being in an alliance does not mean you must eat, breath, and sleep alliance stuff. (My views, not my corps etc etc) _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Vache REZ - Director of Operations. RISE - Minister of External Affairs.
Jarem Alistor Minmatar Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:15:00 - [96] Originally by: zeKzn the only issue I have is for people who play in windowed mode. if they're tabbed out for a few minutes to read something and miss the request, does that count as afk? It gets more and more unreasonable to ask people to log out the shorter their "afk" time is, and sometimes stuff just gets out of hand - leaving the computer for half a minute to go to the toilet and breaking your arm would be an extreme example, but I'm certain everyone has had something they intended to only take 1 or 2 minutes take over an hour at least once in their lives. Anyone asking you to log out if you're going to be afk for just a handfull of minutes /is/ definitely asking for too much IMO. However, heck if only for /courtesy/ why not log out so you don't confuse other people? Demoralize /your/ corp/alliance if you're gonna be gone for nigh on an hour? -Jare' ---- -Founder-
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:17:00 - [97] Originally by: Jarem Alistor However, heck if only for /courtesy/ why not log out so you don't confuse other people? Demoralize /your/ corp/alliance if you're gonna be gone for nigh on an hour? Well my point is its easy to lose track of time when you're alt tabbed out, and thats not really being afk. As for the second point, it seems to contradict the first :p resident economics expert
Too Kind	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:28:00 - [98] I'm quite often logged in too, although I don't really play. From time to time I look into corp and alliance chat. If your computer runs anyway and you have a flatrate, then why not be logged into eve , too ? Imho the problem is not being afk itself, but that it's not really clear, how many are really available and listening. E.g. if you have enemies in your space and your people don't react or react slowly, then you can only guess why. Are they afk, do they just ignore it, because of lazyness or being not in the mood etc. ? And it can become a desease. Reaction times getting slower and slower, participation going down. I don't think that forbidding to go afk is a solution, but it might be needed to keep track of who is really available. Maybe with an extra channel, where being afk is forbidden. Don't know. -------------------------- Post with your main !!!111
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:34:00 - [99] Originally by: Ab Initio Edited by: Ab Initio on 14/10/2006 22:40:44 One reason for the rule is that this can have an effect on the morale of the alliance members out fighting. We all know that there are alts in the alliance, and we know people are AFK. But seeing 600 people in alliance chat and only 100 in a gang can still affect morale of the troops. If you're serious about being part of an alliance, I don't see logging out when you're not at the machine as such a horrible request. Alliance warfare is about morale more than anything else, and you being logged in and AFK, makes every loss of your mates hurt that much more. Really I don't get it. You have 600 players in Alliance chat, ok, 100 are in the fightihg blob, OK. Unless you have a rule "all the member of the alliance must be in system A and free to combat" I would say that ot the other 500 a good number is 5-10-20, in Jita system of distance, an even greater number is some distance away and fighting (a mission, PvP and so on), a good number are not fighters or use the wrong class of ship for your intended mission (you use t1 frigates for a gatecamp?), other will be mining/refining/managing POS and so on; and others again will be doing operations for the corporation where they belong. All in all a 16% presence of front line fighter is a good percentage. In modern armyes it is lower.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:34:00 - [100] 90% of the time I run my business from a station, active doesn't mean you have to be flying, what moron alliance is this? Then again having lurkers logged on never socializing any wears on the rest of us. Your group should differ between the docked and the silent. Looking For Ventrilo Hosting
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:48:00 - [101] Originally by: Venkul Mul Really I don't get it. You have 600 players in Alliance chat, ok, 100 are in the fightihg blob, OK. Unless you have a rule "all the member of the alliance must be in system A and free to combat" I would say that ot the other 500 a good number is 5-10-20, in Jita system of distance, an even greater number is some distance away and fighting (a mission, PvP and so on), a good number are not fighters or use the wrong class of ship for your intended mission (you use t1 frigates for a gatecamp?), other will be mining/refining/managing POS and so on; and others again will be doing operations for the corporation where they belong. All in all a 16% presence of front line fighter is a good percentage. In modern armyes it is lower. We're not talking about the reality of what those other people are doing, we're talking about perception. The perception is "I'm fighting to hold this space, and there are 500 people logged in that are not fighting beside me. Why should I bother?". As for 16% being a good number.. Any alliance with 16% PVP participation in alliance size warfare is going to get steamrolled by the first enemy that comes along. Watching alliance chat just over the last couple of days, we're averaging around the 70%+ mark.
Jarem Alistor Minmatar Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:49:00 - [102] One of my corp members gave a very valid reason for extended AFKs which is v.long travel periods. Shrugs Can't really dispute that. I think we can /all/ agree however that adding an AFK flag would fix a lot of this. -Jare' ---- -Founder-
Too Kind	Posted - 2006.10.15 01:03:00 - [103] Originally by: Venkul Mul Really I don't get it. You have 600 players in Alliance chat, ok, 100 are in the fightihg blob, OK. Unless you have a rule "all the member of the alliance must be in system A and free to combat" I would say that ot the other 500 a good number is 5-10-20, in Jita system of distance, an even greater number is some distance away and fighting (a mission, PvP and so on), a good number are not fighters or use the wrong class of ship for your intended mission (you use t1 frigates for a gatecamp?) Alliances are different. My alliance doesn't allow carebearing in empire in large numbers for many months already, because of the persistant state of being at war. We don't want to have freelancers/empire dwellers under the alliance banner, because we are a pure 0.0 alliance and are fighting over space. But if you have a bigger hostile gang in your system in 0.0 and 20 of your people are on one station, 25 on the other station a few jumps out, 3 want to form a gang immediately and then it takes forever to get more reactions, then you wonder, why. Are they all afk or what ? Normally at least the non-afker's should react immediately. The longer it takes to form proper gangs, the less people react next time. The alliance in the OP probably wants to do something against that by removing the afk'ers. Well, like I said, being afk is somehow normal in EVE, so I doubt that you can forbid it. If someone is afk or semi-afk 5 hours a day, but fights 2 hours in the evening, then it's still better than not being there at all. -------------------------- Post with your main !!!111
LWMaverick Quam Singulari Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.15 01:07:00 - [104] I would leave. Right away! Ghey rule tbh <3
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.10.15 01:14:00 - [105] I wish CCP would just implement an AFK auto-logoff timer. After 60 mins, if you're not there, you get automatically logged out. If you are not at the computer for that period of time, there's no reason for you to be in game except to use up resources. Seriously, why be afk for that long when you can just log out. You're not missing anything, you're not there! Log out FFS.
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.10.15 01:21:00 - [106] Edited by: Angry Alt on 15/10/2006 01:23:29 Originally by: Jarem Alistor Well my point is its easy to lose track of time when you're alt tabbed out, and thats not really being afk. As for the second point, it seems to contradict the first :p Are you really serious? If you're alt-tabbed out, your NOT playing the game and ARE AFK from EVE.
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.15 01:33:00 - [107] Originally by: Angry Alt Are you really serious? If you're alt-tabbed out, your NOT playing the game and ARE AFK from EVE. For one, you got the quote wrong. Secondly, AFK denotes away from the keyboard, so no I'm not, by the strictest definition. By the looser definition you seem to want to use, I'm not playing eve at that exact moment, but I am still on hand instantly if someone needs me, the only difference between having the EVE window up is that I cant read chat - and since most pvp alliances/corps will have some form of voice comms or at the very least an out of game communication system I can still be contacted extremely easily. resident economics expert
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.10.15 02:00:00 - [108] Edited by: Angry Alt on 15/10/2006 02:00:49 Originally by: zeKzn Originally by: Angry Alt Are you really serious? If you're alt-tabbed out, your NOT playing the game and ARE AFK from EVE. For one, you got the quote wrong. Secondly, AFK denotes away from the keyboard, so no I'm not, by the strictest definition. By the looser definition you seem to want to use, I'm not playing eve at that exact moment, but I am still on hand instantly if someone needs me, the only difference between having the EVE window up is that I cant read chat - and since most pvp alliances/corps will have some form of voice comms or at the very least an out of game communication system I can still be contacted extremely easily. So I got the quote wrong, waaah. AFK does denote away from keyboard, and if you read my reply, you are AFK from EVE so log out! Keep TS/Vent/Whatever going and if something happens, log in. OMG, what a pain in the ass! Please. And the other difference between having EVE up and logged-in is your just wasting server resources. There's already enough lag without people like you who just could care less about others to give a damn to log out.
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.15 02:04:00 - [109] Edited by: zeKzn on 15/10/2006 02:04:00 Originally by: Angry Alt So I got the quote wrong, waaah. AFK does denote away from keyboard, and if you read my reply, you are AFK from EVE so log out! Keep TS/Vent/Whatever going and if something happens, log in. OMG, what a pain in the ass! Please. And the other difference between having EVE up and logged-in is your just wasting server resources. There's already enough lag without people like you who just could care less about others to give a damn to log out. Hah. You're too incoherent and angry for me to bother replying. Just because your reply stated something doesn't make it fact, and the fact you're spouting it off like it does means its pointless to try to have a meaningful discussion with you. Edit: Post with your main. resident economics expert
Cmdr Sy Off Balance Sheet Entity	Posted - 2006.10.15 02:50:00 - [110] Originally by: SweetMelissa Do people not understand that this is a game, and that most people cannot spend every waking moment a the keys? Some people have families, and they work a job to support these families. I was just curious what other peoples views are. Feel free to flame away. I am ready for it. Ask yourself: 1) Do I make a contribution to a significant proportion of corp/alliance ops during the hours I am online? 2) Is this noticed? If the answer to both is yes, you have no problem. If you show up for half the ops that are called while you are online, you have nothing to worry about. You should not be on anyone's mental list of slackers. If the answer to the first question is yes, and the second is no, don't waste your time, find an organisation which at least bothers to observe after issuing the orders. If the answer to the first question is no, ask yourself whether you are well-suited to that corp/alliance. If you are a casual player by nature, you may fall short of some hard-core standard. Don't feel bad about this - a lack of real-life distractions is nothing to celebrate.
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.10.15 02:51:00 - [111] Edited by: Angry Alt on 15/10/2006 02:51:41 Originally by: zeKzn Edited by: zeKzn on 15/10/2006 02:04:00 Originally by: Angry Alt So I got the quote wrong, waaah. AFK does denote away from keyboard, and if you read my reply, you are AFK from EVE so log out! Keep TS/Vent/Whatever going and if something happens, log in. OMG, what a pain in the ass! Please. And the other difference between having EVE up and logged-in is your just wasting server resources. There's already enough lag without people like you who just could care less about others to give a damn to log out. Hah. You're too incoherent and angry for me to bother replying. Just because your reply stated something doesn't make it fact, and the fact you're spouting it off like it does means its pointless to try to have a meaningful discussion with you. Edit: Post with your main. Blah blah blah, talk about incoherent. If you can't address the points being made, why bother to even post. It's perfectly coherent and raises valid issues. Posting with my 'main' has nothing to do with the fact that being idle for more than an hour simply wastes resources. *Edit: Post something that has a valid argument.
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.15 03:04:00 - [112] Edited by: zeKzn on 15/10/2006 03:07:09 Originally by: Angry Alt Blah blah blah, talk about incoherent. If you can't address the points being made, why bother to even post. It's perfectly coherent and raises valid issues. Posting with my 'main' has nothing to do with the fact that being idle for more than an hour simply wastes resources. *Edit: Post something that has a valid argument. Fine. Why should I care about your game experience? I go idle instead of logging out because that amount of time it takes me to log into a game can matter, in certain situations, and I dont want to waste my corp/alliance's time if they need me right away because I logged out for no reason than to free up whatever minimal resources are used by sitting in a station. Edit: When did I say an hour? I dont go idle for an hour without checking to see if something is happening every 5 mins or so unless something that should have taken a few minutes explodes beyond that. resident economics expert
darklegionca Semper Fidelis Industries	Posted - 2006.10.15 03:07:00 - [113] i see a lock comming soon why dont you 2 go fight it out in eve or somthing and not on the fourm like a bunch of 5 year olds
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.15 03:08:00 - [114] Originally by: darklegionca i see a lock comming soon why dont you 2 go fight it out in eve or somthing and not on the fourm like a bunch of 5 year olds says the one who cant think to post anything more than insults about being emo resident economics expert
Gonada Gallente Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.10.15 03:27:00 - [115] lol, 4 pages of carebears justifying their carebearness. simply pathetic :) -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.15 03:34:00 - [116] Originally by: Gonada lol, 4 pages of carebears justifying their carebearness. simply pathetic :) about as much so as your post :> resident economics expert My thoughts are my own and do not reflect those of my Corp/Alliance
SweetMelissa	Posted - 2006.10.15 04:51:00 - [117] *UPDATE* Well, these are all excellent responses. I am still waiting to see how this weekend goes. There are a few fleet ops planned, so it will be interesting. If it doesn't go well, we will then decide on what to do. I don't really feel like packing up all our stuff though. Moving 200+ people, as well as multiple capital ships is a real PITA.
Annya Avishnaya Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.10.15 05:58:00 - [118] Sounds rediculous tbh. I go afk all the time when I'm training shorter skills and don't feel like playing. Hell, i go afk and read the forums for a couple of hours. Plenty of people have plenty of other reasons to be afk and i'll be damned if i ever let anyone tell me how to spend my time, short of my family and a select few good friends. If i don't respond to something, I'm not there. That's not hard to understand, nor would it be any different whether I was logged off or not. IMO, tell your alliance to shove that rule up their behind.
OldPueblo Gallente Defenders of Order New Eden Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.15 07:05:00 - [119] Edited by: OldPueblo on 15/10/2006 07:07:19 Not to be offensive, but low morale is a pretty dumb reason in my book. What ever happened to trust? Relying on your alliance brothers/sisters? If you don't get answers for help, you can only feel frustration and have low morale for two reasons: 1. You know you have dead weight in alliance which you should be kicking people/corps for, not making dumb rules like forcing logoffs for those that want to afk. Forcing logoffs doesn't fix your bad alliance member problem. 2. You personally don't trust/believe in your alliance. Learn to do so since they will trust/believe in you. Deal with the fact that you are getting as much help as can be given at that time. If you know you aren't, see number one above. Its been my experience that the majority of single people that scream for help in alliance because they are getting attacked couldve been smarter about their flying, or will be dead before anyone can respond anyway and they are just mad that they died and screaming "200 in alliance and nobody saved my stupid butt?!?!". Be realistic about getting a response from your alliance, if nobody is ganged ahead of time already. And if you say hi in alliance and only one guy says hi back, are you crushed morally and socially? Would it be better if you got all 200/500/800 people saying hi back all in a row? Seriously, who cares!
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.15 21:40:00 - [120] Edited by: Ab Initio on 15/10/2006 21:41:31 Originally by: OldPueblo Not to be offensive, but low morale is a pretty dumb reason in my book. What ever happened to trust? Relying on your alliance brothers/sisters? If you don't get answers for help, you can only feel frustration and have low morale for two reasons: 1. You know you have dead weight in alliance which you should be kicking people/corps for, not making dumb rules like forcing logoffs for those that want to afk. Forcing logoffs doesn't fix your bad alliance member problem. 2. You personally don't trust/believe in your alliance. Learn to do so since they will trust/believe in you. Deal with the fact that you are getting as much help as can be given at that time. If you know you aren't, see number one above. Its been my experience that the majority of single people that scream for help in alliance because they are getting attacked couldve been smarter about their flying, or will be dead before anyone can respond anyway and they are just mad that they died and screaming "200 in alliance and nobody saved my stupid butt?!?!". Be realistic about getting a response from your alliance, if nobody is ganged ahead of time already. And if you say hi in alliance and only one guy says hi back, are you crushed morally and socially? Would it be better if you got all 200/500/800 people saying hi back all in a row? Seriously, who cares! I'm happy for you that you're in an alliance where you trust every individual implacably, sadly most are not in that position. Oh, and FYI. Just because an explanation doesn't fit your particular scenario, it would be extremely naive to write it off as dumb. There are two kind of alliances: * Individual corps, pulled together as an alliance for mutual defence. This is 75%+ of current alliances. * Alliances where the corps are almost transparent, and everything is done for the alliance. This makes up the other 25%. The major difference between the two, is that the first generally lacks in trust you mentioned earlier. The lack of transparency between corps leads to questioning why more aren't fighting etc. There is no way to 'kill' an alliance in EVE. As long as people keep fighting, that alliance will always be around. Yet how many alliances do we see killed? Morale and trust is what holds alliances in EVE together, or pulls them apart. I dare say that if this doesn't fit your scenario, your alliance is either one of the 25% that fall into the second group, or you've never been part of a proper alliance war and watched the fractures start appearing.
djenghis jan Amarr Debiloff's Vanguard	Posted - 2006.10.15 22:21:00 - [121] PVP and AFK do mix, i did it for some time in a pilgrim. I was afk for most of the day and got to my pc to stalk some miners. In this way you can keep your enemy on their tows the whole time and enjoy instant action i you wish to do so. It is very effective because they can't get to you if you are cloaked. I use a scanner to check the belts. this tactic would not work if i log on-off because the miners/ratters would see my picture pop up in local. cheers djenghis
MissileRus	Posted - 2006.10.15 22:38:00 - [122] afk flag+suggestion forum? noone done that? /runs of to suggestion forum in hope of getting in to a patch note for a great suggestion!1one --------------------------- 4. i like pizza

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