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Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 413	Posted - 2015.03.04 02:44:57 - [1] - Quote I'm working on an evaluation of wealth generation across most activities in Eve- excluding industry. The purpose of this is to identify how much ISK is actually made across various forms of active or AFK work in each area of space. I can only speak for the null incomes per hour and a little bit of the highsec income values, so input from people experienced in various forms of income would be appreciated. The below is evaluating average wealth generation, not just raw ISK obtained from these activities. This is assuming you have the average skills required to do each activity proficiently. Max skills or being under skilled will make different amounts. Nullsec AFK Ishtars: 60-70 mil per hour, possible escalations. Many escalations are not worth doing because of the buff to drops and escalation chance. AFK Carriers: 90 mil per hour. Much higher risk, but more income possible from carriers over ishtars. Active Ratting**: 90-120 mil per hour depending on skills. note: income per hour varies downwards depending on number of sites available, hostiles, etc. Ice Mining: 40-50 mil per hour. 50-70 mil per hour in a hulk (but using a hulk is a pretty awful idea) Ore Mining: 30-50 mil per hour. 40-70 mil per hour in a hulk (see above) Exploration: Estimated 40-50 mil per hour. Varies wildly, especially if others are also exploring. Can hit it big or not hit anything for an extended time. Salvaging: 20-40 mil per hour. Assumes following someone else ratting. Can be done as a few day old newbee. Missions: 100-150 mil per hour. Possibly more with blitzing. Requires npc null space with missions. Incursions: Usually around 90-120 mil per hour. Requires incursions, most null incursions don't run full efficient fleets like highsec. Lowsec Missions: 100-250 mil per hour. Assuming level 5 missions or faction missions. Mining: Doesn't happen in bulk because of the risk Ratting: Doesn't happen in bulk because of the risk Exploration: Estimated 20-40 mil per hour. See above with null. Incursions:100-200? mil per hour. Requires a consistent group and waiting time. Please correct me on this. Faction Warfare: 50-200 mil per hour. Varies wildly with faction levels, luck, etc. Consider hostiles as well. Highsec Ratting: negligible Ice Mining: 20-30 mil per hour. Assuming hauler and perfect boosts. Ore Mining: 10-20 mil per hour. Same as above. Missions: 40-70 mil per hour. Assuming average 1000 isk/lp payout. Blitzing Missions: 90-120 mil per hour. Same as above. Incursions: 70-150 mil per hour. Requires an incursion. Requires wait time and a good fleet. Faction Warfare: negligible Exploration: negligible Wormholes C6 sites: 400+ mil per hour. Varies wildly requiring escalations, etc. C5 sites: 200-400+mil per hour. Requires finding appropriate sites and a hole out of your staging. C3/C4 sites: 100-300+mil per hour. See above C2/C1 sites: Roughly nullsec income, better to do c3+ Data/Relic sites: 70-200 mil per hour. Varies wildly depending on luck. Gas Mining: 50-100 mil per hour. Requires appropriate gas sites, gas varies wildly. Can be done in a low skill Venture. *Note: requires considerable logistics, scouts, etc. Income varies a considerable amount depending on activity and some luck. I did not include activities such as market manipulation, ganking, and industry as those vary wildly depending on what you're doing. Please comment in here if you have more accurate numbers or want to discuss a specific activity.
tyler274 KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2015.03.04 03:17:36 - [2] - Quote Good formatting Nice Topic Gets point across 10/10 not shitpost
Ammutseba Gangulur KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 12	Posted - 2015.03.04 03:20:31 - [3] - Quote Quote: Lowsec Missions: 100-250 mil per hour. Assuming level 5 missions or faction missions. Well ****, lets move back to Low Sec!
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor 5762	Posted - 2015.03.04 04:12:34 - [4] - Quote Blitzing hisec missions for 120M ISK/hr at 1000 ISK/LP? I wish to subscribe to your newsletter! The best I can manage is about 100M ISK/hr at 2000 ISK/LP, assuming I don't get distracted with silly things like warping 120AU in Barkrik or jumping an extra two systems over, or having to go pee. Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 418	Posted - 2015.03.04 04:15:36 - [5] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: Blitzing hisec missions for 120M ISK/hr at 1000 ISK/LP? I wish to subscribe to your newsletter! The best I can manage is about 100M ISK/hr at 2000 ISK/LP, assuming I don't get distracted with silly things like warping 120AU in Barkrik or jumping an extra two systems over, or having to go pee. I'm happy to change that if more people confirm that the wealth rate is in fact that low per hour. I did some testing in a not huge level 4 mission area and was able to pull 90-120 an hour over 10 hours. That was in a Tengu. I hear that rattlesnakes are even better at blitzing but didn't test that out. Edit: before ammo costs, obviously.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10032	Posted - 2015.03.04 04:54:18 - [6] - Quote Pretty good. From personal experience the lvl 5 mission estimate is a bit low but otherwise pretty close. Ditto high sec burner mission blitzing (which should not be a separate category, there are people who do nothing but burners). I'm glad you used the term "wealth" instead of isk. Some people don't understand that isk faucets (like null anomaly bounties) aren't the only kinds of wealth in EVE online. LP and blue loot and OPEs ect are isk sinks but not 'wealth sinks'. The same people go ballistic when you talk about the poor relative state of null sec isk making compared to the rest of New Eden (and compared to the pre-Dominion past). It's not impossible to make a 'living' in null, plenty of people do it and liquid isk from anoms + escalations has it's appeal, it just doesn't compare favorably overall to soooo many other individual pilot level PVE activities to the point where null is a Renters Desert composed of PVErs who either like null PVE to the point where they ignore the downsides, or novice PVE players who don't realize that they are losing isk doing null PVE when they could be in FW flying a FRIGATE sized ship (bomber) making up to 200 mil an hour or using another kind of FRIGATE sized ship (Faction frig or Assault frig) in high sec making close to the same blitzing burners.
Padegejas Peace Empire for univers 33	Posted - 2015.03.04 07:49:38 - [7] - Quote Your information about high sec incursion wealth is not correct based on my personal experience. Your estimation of 70-150 mil per hour would be correct for VG fleet and evaluating pure isk income only. If you'll count LP you'll get at least 25 mil more counting 1200 isk per LP which is rate of wholesale buyers of Concord LP now days (you can get even more if you trade LP yourself and know how to do that). So it generates up to 175 mil/h that way. Good HQ fleet generates about 180 mil./h of pure isk plus 50 mil for the LP, at rate of 1200 isk/lp, so it's about 230 isk/h. Sometimes, when the sites spawn very successfully it's possible to squeeze even more.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10033	Posted - 2015.03.04 13:32:27 - [8] - Quote Padegejas wrote: Your information about high sec incursion wealth is not correct based on my personal experience. Your estimation of 70-150 mil per hour would be correct for VG fleet and evaluating pure isk income only. If you'll count LP you'll get at least 25 mil more counting 1200 isk per LP which is rate of wholesale buyers of Concord LP now days (you can get even more if you trade LP yourself and know how to do that). So it generates up to 175 mil/h that way. Good HQ fleet generates about 180 mil./h of pure isk plus 50 mil for the LP, at rate of 1200 isk/lp, so it's about 230 isk/h. Sometimes, when the sites spawn very successfully it's possible to squeeze even more. While I agree with everything you said, it's smarter to do what the OP did and lowball the estimate. That at least gives a nod to the fact that their are disruptions to incursions (moving, contests, lack of high sec incursions, waiting to get into fleet, etc). The kind of isk I made flying with ISN and occasionally in TVP shiny fleets is only surpassed by blitzing lvl 5 missions or doing faction warfare missions under the right conditions so yea I know how crazy it can get, but in fairness it doesn't happen like that all the time.
Agondray Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces 212	Posted - 2015.03.04 13:40:27 - [9] - Quote added to favorites to reference for other activities "Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Desimus Maximus Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 180	Posted - 2015.03.04 18:11:20 - [10] - Quote Padegejas wrote: Good HQ fleet generates about 180 mil./h of pure isk... 6 HQ sites an hour? You are a lying sack. An elite HQ fleet can push maybe 4 and possibly start into a 5th if there is zero competition with other fleets in the system.

Sekhen Oni Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 2	Posted - 2015.03.04 18:22:45 - [11] - Quote The concept of "Exploration" probably needs clarification or sub-dividing. If you exclusively look at Exploration as running Data and Relic sites, then the income for Hig-Sec is indeed negligible. However, if you include probing down combat sites and running them, the income can be quite respectable, given the right combination of factors. (The right ship/ammo for the rats you're fighting, the ability to race others if needed, the ability to pick the right areas, and knowledge of the sites and the triggers, to get to the ships dropping faction loot quickly). If you're good, you can probably average out at 30-50 million/hr, but with substantial ups and downs.
Sekhen Oni Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 2	Posted - 2015.03.04 18:27:03 - [12] - Quote Oh: Null Sec mining in a Hulk is absolutely fine if you (as you did for high sec) assume that a Hauler is involved.
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1416	Posted - 2015.03.05 00:26:50 - [13] - Quote Assuming you have enough characters to get a supply of just burners (I do not) a burner for SOE returns 30 mill just in LP per mission.
Kaphrah Kaphrah Corporation4 37	Posted - 2015.03.05 03:21:35 - [14] - Quote Desimus Maximus wrote: Padegejas wrote: Good HQ fleet generates about 180 mil./h of pure isk... 6 HQ sites an hour? You are a lying sack. An elite HQ fleet can push maybe 4 and possibly start into a 5th if there is zero competition with other fleets in the system. DIN once pushed over seven, you just need a TCRC wall for it ~_~ also TVP and I guess ISN reached enormous numbers. If you get TCRC's you can easily push the pay to pay down to 7 minutes (yes, with warp). NRF's down to... dunno, 10-12 min, ISN was kinda faster there and TPPH 16-18min. All without contest, all you need is a good fleet composition and no tards. Inb4 quoted post was troll
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 446	Posted - 2015.03.05 03:35:00 - [15] - Quote It would be greatly appreciated for more lowsec/wh folks to chime in and confirm if those numbers look accurate.
Aplysia Vejun The Scope Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2015.03.05 06:20:42 - [16] - Quote Lowsec combat exploration : extreme variation. From 40mio (mostly bounties) up to 2bio a site. All in all around 120 mio per hour
Aplysia Vejun The Scope Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2015.03.05 06:25:26 - [17] - Quote Lowsec combat exploration : extreme variation. From 40mio (mostly bounties) up to 2bio a site. All in all around 120 mio per hour
Padegejas Peace Empire for univers 33	Posted - 2015.03.05 08:39:49 - [18] - Quote Desimus Maximus wrote: Padegejas wrote: Good HQ fleet generates about 180 mil./h of pure isk... 6 HQ sites an hour? You are a lying sack. An elite HQ fleet can push maybe 4 and possibly start into a 5th if there is zero competition with other fleets in the system. It's really bad idea to insult others if you don't do it as fast as others and it can put you in really awkward situations But enough words - time for proofs: http://clip2net.com/s/3dCYZ7h
Miali Askulf Black Rise Freight 1	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:21:09 - [19] - Quote Mr Omniblivion wrote: It would be greatly appreciated for more lowsec/wh folks to chime in and confirm if those numbers look accurate. L5 mission income is hard to quantify - some are easy and crazy lucrative, a few are going to be very difficult without multiple pilots (which will reduce your isk/character of course) or a very quiet system and a carrier. The LP values are typically horrible compared to the easy ~2k/lp you can get in highsec as well. 250m/hour is possible for sure, but only with lucky mission rolls - quite a lot of the time you won't have something you can easily run solo and if you're using multiple characters, you should take that into account.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10070	Posted - 2015.03.05 15:01:30 - [20] - Quote Miali Askulf wrote: Mr Omniblivion wrote: It would be greatly appreciated for more lowsec/wh folks to chime in and confirm if those numbers look accurate. L5 mission income is hard to quantify - some are easy and crazy lucrative, a few are going to be very difficult without multiple pilots (which will reduce your isk/character of course) or a very quiet system and a carrier. The LP values are typically horrible compared to the easy ~2k/lp you can get in highsec as well. 250m/hour is possible for sure, but only with lucky mission rolls - quite a lot of the time you won't have something you can easily run solo and if you're using multiple characters, you should take that into account. lvl 5 mission blitzing is no different than blitzing any other mission. If you have the standings, it's easy. I do it all the time, with 1 character, and 250 mil an hour only happens if I have to go afk for 30 minutes during that hour. It takes knowing where to do the missions. finding a lvl 5 mission agent in low sec that has station systems adjacent. I have 1 carrier in the system where the agent is and 2 carriers in the systems next door. I never have to jump a gate or cyno. I decline missions that don't allow carriers (ie missions with gates) and I decline missions that isn't in one of the 3 systems I have carriers in. With fit and fighters those 3 carriers cost my 6 bil. I made the isk for that in null sec and alos day tripping into c3 wormhole sin a Gila. Best investment I ever made. I still do faction warfare missions in a purifier too (it's jsut crazy as hell to make 2-300 mil an hour with a stealthbomber, I accept like 8 missions at a time and make my way around to them then back home and cash out the LP when the time is right, tier 4 and above lol). But back to l5 missions, luck has nothing to do with it, knowing how to blitz does.

Hellois Dawn The Outlet 3	Posted - 2015.03.05 17:02:24 - [21] - Quote Im sure that posts like this are designed to make everyone feel inadequate. I can make 1.5 Billion in an hour and 15 minutes when im good. But most of my time im scanning or being scanned or im running. Plus i have 6 billion isk on the line at all times.
Miali Askulf Black Rise Freight 1	Posted - 2015.03.05 21:39:26 - [22] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Miali Askulf wrote: Mr Omniblivion wrote: It would be greatly appreciated for more lowsec/wh folks to chime in and confirm if those numbers look accurate. L5 mission income is hard to quantify - some are easy and crazy lucrative, a few are going to be very difficult without multiple pilots (which will reduce your isk/character of course) or a very quiet system and a carrier. The LP values are typically horrible compared to the easy ~2k/lp you can get in highsec as well. 250m/hour is possible for sure, but only with lucky mission rolls - quite a lot of the time you won't have something you can easily run solo and if you're using multiple characters, you should take that into account. lvl 5 mission blitzing is no different than blitzing any other mission. If you have the standings, it's easy. I do it all the time, with 1 character, and 250 mil an hour only happens if I have to go afk for 30 minutes during that hour. It takes knowing where to do the missions. finding a lvl 5 mission agent in low sec that has station systems adjacent. I have 1 carrier in the system where the agent is and 2 carriers in the systems next door. I never have to jump a gate or cyno. I decline missions that don't allow carriers (ie missions with gates) and I decline missions that isn't in one of the 3 systems I have carriers in. With fit and fighters those 3 carriers cost my 6 bil. I made the isk for that in null sec and also day tripping into c3 wormhole sin a Gila. Best investment I ever made. I still do faction warfare missions in a purifier too (it's just crazy as hell to make 2-300 mil an hour with a stealthbomber, I accept like 8 missions at a time and make my way around to them then back home and cash out the LP when the time is right, tier 4 and above lol). But back to l5 missions, luck has nothing to do with it, knowing how to blitz does. Yeah, I was talking about doing them in subcaps. Using a carrier is obviously a bit different.
Poena Loveless Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers. 2	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:43:59 - [23] - Quote Generalized wormhole numbers are wildly inaccurate. You also make no comparison between the risk involved between a 250mil AFK ishtar and a 15-18B Capital + T3 support Gang doing wormhole sites. Might as well put up Suicide Ganking: 20mil-8B/hour
Damjan Fox Fox Industries and Exploration 111	Posted - 2015.03.06 09:15:29 - [24] - Quote Quote: I made the isk for that in null sec and also day tripping into c3 wormhole sin a Gila. You can run C3 sites in a Gila?
Warmonger Simon Wormbro Ocularis Inferno 8	Posted - 2015.03.06 09:28:17 - [25] - Quote Damjan Fox wrote: Quote: I made the isk for that in null sec and also day tripping into c3 wormhole sin a Gila. You can run C3 sites in a Gila? Gila can tank up to ~1000 dps in semi cheap passive fit. And do 600 dps or so yes it can do c3's
Damjan Fox Fox Industries and Exploration 111	Posted - 2015.03.06 09:50:27 - [26] - Quote Quote: Gila can tank up to ~1000 dps in semi cheap passive fit. Omnitanked? Can you show me such a fit?
Warmonger Simon Wormbro Ocularis Inferno 8	Posted - 2015.03.06 09:56:03 - [27] - Quote Damjan Fox wrote: Quote: Gila can tank up to ~1000 dps in semi cheap passive fit. Omnitanked? Can you show me such a fit? 1k Omni-tank ; 600 total dps ; 14k buffer and 60k ehp , shield op/management 2% implants all skills @ V http://take.ms/OfV8p , with more bling you could probably get more tank/damage.
Damjan Fox Fox Industries and Exploration 111	Posted - 2015.03.06 10:09:42 - [28] - Quote Warmonger Simon wrote: Damjan Fox wrote: Quote: Gila can tank up to ~1000 dps in semi cheap passive fit. Omnitanked? Can you show me such a fit? 1k Omni-tank ; 600 total dps ; 14k buffer and 60k ehp , shield op/management 2% implants all skills @ V http://take.ms/OfV8p , with more bling you could probably get more tank/damage. There are probably better fits, but this was just as an example. Thank you. It doesn't show in the picture, but i assume you fitted augmented hammerheads. I don't know the layout of the C3 sites, but not having a prop mod, i guess the 60km drone and 47km missile range is enough to hit everything? And most importantly, what about the drone aggro? Wouldn't the sleepers rip up my drones, before i have the chance to recall them at those ranges?
Warmonger Simon Wormbro Ocularis Inferno 9	Posted - 2015.03.06 10:17:58 - [29] - Quote Carry mobile depot and refit as needed, 1k dps tank is not needed in 90% of C3 sites. ~600-700 will do most just fine so swapping one drone link aug in a place is always a possibility/losing one of relays for drone damage mod. If you're doing normal anomalies only 740 is max tank you'll need given you don't shoot triggers first. As far as drones go yes correct i placed 2x augumented hammers in there for fitting purposes , sometimes they get targeted but with gilas bonus their ehp is huge and you'll have no problem recalling them in case that's needed.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10107	Posted - 2015.03.06 13:39:01 - [30] - Quote Poena Loveless wrote: Generalized wormhole numbers are wildly inaccurate. You also make no comparison between the risk involved between a 250mil AFK ishtar and a 15-18B Capital + T3 support Gang doing wormhole sites. Might as well put up Suicide Ganking: 20mil-8B/hour No his numbers aren't 'wildly inaccurate', they are just low balled And i guess you didn't actually read what he posted? Mr Omniblivion wrote: Wormholes C6 sites: 400+ mil per hour. Varies wildly requiring escalations, etc. C5 sites: 200-400+mil per hour. Requires finding appropriate sites and a hole out of your staging. C3/C4 sites: 100-300+mil per hour. See above C2/C1 sites: Roughly nullsec income, better to do c3+ Data/Relic sites: 70-200 mil per hour. Varies wildly depending on luck. Gas Mining: 50-100 mil per hour. Requires appropriate gas sites, gas varies wildly. Can be done in a low skill Venture. *Note: requires considerable logistics, scouts, etc. Income varies a considerable amount depending on activity and some luck. And what does an afk ishtar have to do with wormholes in the 1st place?

Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10107	Posted - 2015.03.06 13:46:09 - [31] - Quote Warmonger Simon wrote: Carry mobile depot and refit as needed, 1k dps tank is not needed in 90% of C3 sites. ~600-700 will do most just fine so swapping one drone link aug in a place is always a possibility/losing one of relays for drone damage mod. If you're doing normal anomalies only 740 is max tank you'll need given you don't shoot triggers first. As far as drones go yes correct i placed 2x augumented hammers in there for fitting purposes , sometimes they get targeted but with gilas bonus their ehp is huge and you'll have no problem recalling them in case that's needed. Perfectly well said. I bring a mix of tech 2 hammerheads and Fed navy Hammerheads. The faction drones tank like a sumbitch with gila bonuses , worth a little less paper DPS. Hell, that Gila is a champ in a fight with people too, I escaped like 3 time by popping in warp core stabs and medium neuts (had some help from sleeperss switching aggro too lol) ALWAYS have a Mobil depot deployed and ready. And always have the right stuff in cargo, cloak, probe launcher and probes, cargo expanders, warp core stabs, ammo (duh), scanning modules, Mobil tractor, and i'm sure I'm forgetting something, I'm not in game right now.
Warmonger Simon Wormbro Ocularis Inferno 10	Posted - 2015.03.06 13:49:24 - [32] - Quote Probably forgetting salvagers if you don't have a specific alt/ship you take there after bookmarking wrecks.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10107	Posted - 2015.03.06 13:53:23 - [33] - Quote Warmonger Simon wrote: Probably forgetting salvagers if you don't have a specific alt/ship you take there after bookmarking wrecks. That's it, salvagers and salvage drones. I HAVE brought 2 gilas before, and since the missiels aren't that much extra dps, I went with 3 launchers, 1 energy transfer, 1 deadpsace small remote shield rep (cheap) on both. The gila tanks enough passively for the sites in a c3, the remote repping was there in case bad guys landed on me, which they sometimes do lol.
PowerFromHouwer Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.03.06 15:34:29 - [34] - Quote Miali Askulf wrote: Mr Omniblivion wrote: It would be greatly appreciated for more lowsec/wh folks to chime in and confirm if those numbers look accurate. L5 mission income is hard to quantify - some are easy and crazy lucrative, a few are going to be very difficult without multiple pilots (which will reduce your isk/character of course) or a very quiet system and a carrier. The LP values are typically horrible compared to the easy ~2k/lp you can get in highsec as well. 250m/hour is possible for sure, but only with lucky mission rolls - quite a lot of the time you won't have something you can easily run solo and if you're using multiple characters, you should take that into account. Indeed, i'm missing the number of characters part. But getting 250 mil an hour with 2 chars in tengu's is quite rare. 200 mil is more plausible
Shey Nabali Collapsed Out Overload Everything 14	Posted - 2015.03.07 01:33:57 - [35] - Quote PowerFromHouwer wrote: Miali Askulf wrote: Mr Omniblivion wrote: It would be greatly appreciated for more lowsec/wh folks to chime in and confirm if those numbers look accurate. L5 mission income is hard to quantify - some are easy and crazy lucrative, a few are going to be very difficult without multiple pilots (which will reduce your isk/character of course) or a very quiet system and a carrier. The LP values are typically horrible compared to the easy ~2k/lp you can get in highsec as well. 250m/hour is possible for sure, but only with lucky mission rolls - quite a lot of the time you won't have something you can easily run solo and if you're using multiple characters, you should take that into account. Indeed, i'm missing the number of characters part. But getting 250 mil an hour with 2 chars in tengu's is quite rare. 200 mil is more plausible In about 3-4 hours(I took breaks here and there and wasn't really tracking it that closely) last night, I made a little over 1.4 million LP with two characters running missions. I used a single faction standing pulling alt to pull missions, and ran them with a thanatos. I cashed out the LP at about 550 isk per LP, so around 800m isk. I was running them pretty slowly, as it was the first time I had run them in months, most people I know would have made closer to 3m LP in the same amount of time. 250/m hour is EASY, and double that is absolutely achievable. EDIT: I don't really count isk/character because I use both pilots regularly for PvP.
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 466	Posted - 2015.03.07 23:20:32 - [36] - Quote Updated the nullsec section to remove the ishtar specific and added in all drone subcaps. There are a variety of drone boats utilized in nullsec (gilas, ishtars, VNIs, rattlesnakes)- all of which are viable.
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 466	Posted - 2015.03.07 23:23:18 - [37] - Quote Aplysia Vejun wrote: Lowsec combat exploration : extreme variation. From 40mio (mostly bounties) up to 2bio a site. All in all around 120 mio per hour Do you have any data to back up that estimated hourly income rate? That sounds a bit high from my exploration experience in null (yes, I have done a lot of exploration personally in null while doing spacejob things)
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 466	Posted - 2015.03.07 23:25:13 - [38] - Quote Hellois Dawn wrote: Im sure that posts like this are designed to make everyone feel inadequate. I can make 1.5 Billion in an hour and 15 minutes when im good. But most of my time im scanning or being scanned or im running. Plus i have 6 billion isk on the line at all times. While that figure is attainable at some points, I doubt that you are able to consistently do that. Thus, the hourly averages I posted were more of an average value over time, considering the work that must be done to secure your holes and actually get those sites.
Market McSelling Alt Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC 117	Posted - 2015.03.08 00:21:33 - [39] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a ****-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£ - See more at: http://evenews24.com/2015/03/07/eve-2-0-an-economy-of-violence/#sthash.sFkMg872.dpuf So there's that.. Nice stealth "nerf hi sec" thread.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10133	Posted - 2015.03.08 01:08:05 - [40] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a ****-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£ - See more at: http://evenews24.com/2015/03/07/eve-2-0-an-economy-of-violence/#sthash.sFkMg872.dpuf So there's that.. Nice stealth "nerf hi sec" thread. Yay, someone else who isn't interested in the truth.

Market McSelling Alt Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC 117	Posted - 2015.03.08 01:13:45 - [41] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Market McSelling Alt wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a ****-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£ - See more at: http://evenews24.com/2015/03/07/eve-2-0-an-economy-of-violence/#sthash.sFkMg872.dpuf So there's that.. Nice stealth "nerf hi sec" thread. Yay, someone else who isn't interested in the truth. Stop that, I almost choked on my own spit. You're hilarious
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10133	Posted - 2015.03.08 01:23:00 - [42] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Stop that, I almost choked on my own spit. You're hilarious You can laugh all you want, but not being able to admit the truth about a trivial video game situation says something about a poster. I don't get why you deniers are so afraid of the situation. And at the end of the day, I don't care if ccp doesn't fix it, I've got an alt for high sec missions, 1 in FW that flies a purifier and one in low sec with 3 carriers (one in the system with the agent and the other 2 docked in adjacent systems, and I have high enough standings to just decline the missions not in those systems, or that have gates). But you'd think that everyone would want CCP to correct an imbalance that exists because imbalances hurt everyone in a game as interconnected as this (for example, all the null guy mission alts doing missions lower the value of everyone else's LP). But hey, just keep being so intensely short sighted that you don't realize it's you getting screwed, I'll keep raking in the isk from the imbalances you refuse to acknowledge.
Market McSelling Alt Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC 117	Posted - 2015.03.08 01:37:58 - [43] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Market McSelling Alt wrote: Stop that, I almost choked on my own spit. You're hilarious You can laugh all you want, but not being able to admit the truth about a trivial video game situation says something about a poster. I don't get why you deniers are so afraid of the situation. And at the end of the day, I don't care if ccp doesn't fix it, I've got an alt for high sec missions, 1 in FW that flies a purifier and one in low sec with 3 carriers (one in the system with the agent and the other 2 docked in adjacent systems, and I have high enough standings to just decline the missions not in those systems, or that have gates). But you'd think that everyone would want CCP to correct an imbalance that exists because imbalances hurt everyone in a game as interconnected as this (for example, all the null guy mission alts doing missions lower the value of everyone else's LP). But hey, just keep being so intensely short sighted that you don't realize it's you getting screwed, I'll keep raking in the isk from the imbalances you refuse to acknowledge. But yet you lack even one example, even one piece of evidence on how CCP is wrong, how all that have shown Null makes massive isk is wrong. You run right to the "liar" offense every time. Curious
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 466	Posted - 2015.03.08 02:04:23 - [44] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: But yet you lack even one example, even one piece of evidence on how CCP is wrong, how all that have shown Null makes massive isk is wrong. You run right to the "liar" offense every time. Curious My question would be if you understand how wealth is calculated instead of just raw isk. Of course the null opportunities make the most cash isk by themselves, but then how do you quantify LP or raw materials? ISK is just one form of currency, as is LP or even materials (assuming a barter system). Are you suggesting that Steve Jobs was poor because he only had a $1 salary per year? What about his billions of stock options? You're basically looking only at the $1 (ISK equivalent) that he made and completely ignoring the Stock Options (LP/Materials) that was also subsequently earned. That is the concern here. CCP is looking solely at the ISK acquisition and completely disregarding the other types of currency that are being gained elsewhere.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10133	Posted - 2015.03.08 02:42:12 - [45] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Market McSelling Alt wrote: Stop that, I almost choked on my own spit. You're hilarious You can laugh all you want, but not being able to admit the truth about a trivial video game situation says something about a poster. I don't get why you deniers are so afraid of the situation. And at the end of the day, I don't care if ccp doesn't fix it, I've got an alt for high sec missions, 1 in FW that flies a purifier and one in low sec with 3 carriers (one in the system with the agent and the other 2 docked in adjacent systems, and I have high enough standings to just decline the missions not in those systems, or that have gates). But you'd think that everyone would want CCP to correct an imbalance that exists because imbalances hurt everyone in a game as interconnected as this (for example, all the null guy mission alts doing missions lower the value of everyone else's LP). But hey, just keep being so intensely short sighted that you don't realize it's you getting screwed, I'll keep raking in the isk from the imbalances you refuse to acknowledge. But yet you lack even one example, even one piece of evidence on how CCP is wrong, how all that have shown Null makes massive isk is wrong. You run right to the "liar" offense every time. Curious Call em like I see em. And one example? Have you looked at a map of null lately, noticed how it's mostly renters? Did you miss this?. I play this game every night, PVEing across New Eden, and I've seen (and adapted to) the gross imbalances that exist. I SEE how CCP got it wrong in the past (and seem poised to get it wrong again in the near future). And yet rather than an intelligent player base who pve's like me informing CCP of the problems (problems that distort their EVERY attempt to improve game play, see the dev blog I just linked and review the last 4 years of null sec), you get the "Market McSelling Alt" style of hurf blurf. Oh well, gotta go, this 3 million Federation Customs LP I got from doing ONE NIGHT of l5 missions isn't going to sell itself.
Aplysia Vejun The Scope Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2015.03.08 19:01:03 - [46] - Quote Mr Omniblivion wrote: Aplysia Vejun wrote: Lowsec combat exploration : extreme variation. From 40mio (mostly bounties) up to 2bio a site. All in all around 120 mio per hour Do you have any data to back up that estimated hourly income rate? That sounds a bit high from my exploration experience in null (yes, I have done a lot of exploration personally in null while doing spacejob things) I've made all my 40-50 billions last year with combat exploration. I prefer lowsec: MUCH less BS to per site and nearly as good payout as a nullsec-combat-site. In nullsec i'm only doing serpentis 10/10 - all other just take too long in a solo ishtar. Yes, 120mio per hour seems about right. (and in blood raider territory there are always enough 5/10 or, better, 6/10 sites.)
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 466	Posted - 2015.03.08 22:25:28 - [47] - Quote Thank you for getting back to me on that. I will add combat exploration as a separate activity, because I can see how that can make a decent chunk of ISK per hour.
Sweet Adamas Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.03.09 18:11:16 - [48] - Quote Mr Omniblivion wrote: Hellois Dawn wrote: Im sure that posts like this are designed to make everyone feel inadequate. I can make 1.5 Billion in an hour and 15 minutes when im good. But most of my time im scanning or being scanned or im running. Plus i have 6 billion isk on the line at all times. While that figure is attainable at some points, I doubt that you are able to consistently do that. Thus, the hourly averages I posted were more of an average value over time, considering the work that must be done to secure your holes and actually get those sites. Exactly as i stated. Most of my time is spending doing everything else plus if i lose i lose a lot
Drogo Drogos KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 15	Posted - 2015.03.11 08:11:17 - [49] - Quote I dont understand how Fozzy can say Nullsec income is fine compared to other sources of income were risk is minimized or can be managed. Hisec is the safest of them all Lowsec abit more dangerous Nullsec - with no local incomming will become the most dangerous as you can cynodrop / blackops drops / fleet roams day in day out / lone campers and gankers 24/7 in your space. Wormholes are mostly done with groups so there are safety in numbers for C4 and up + you cannot use cyno's and you have vision if a new sig spawns up to see of you get new neighbours. Is CCP truely this blind to see a average anom in a 0.40 / 0.30 system as one of the best income recources in Eve ? With all the risk that is going to be added and the value of these common low security systems i cannot see why they should be buffed to Wormhole levels of income. Let it be group based for all i care so we nullsec players also have a option to socialise with each other to make decent isk. If these changes go trough in the current state of how anoms work and no local you will lose ratting ships day in day out. Like other people said, why even bother when you can make better isk almost risk free elsewhere. Dont forget that a good system can only support a handfull of players before you bump into each other constandly. Many players like me who love to balance their pvp with ratting income to buy more shineys are going to get shafted with the most risk eve has for medium to low isk income. And all CCP Fozzy said is that Nullsec players are making fctons of isk -_-
Anthar Thebess 958	Posted - 2015.03.11 09:01:00 - [50] - Quote Nullsec missions are giving less isk this days. Probably due to overarming lvl 5 missions in lowsec. Most of the income was coming from tags, that have lost sometimes 50% of their value. You need to also include the delay you are getting this isk. For example : - anom ratting gives you isk almost instantly - missions only when you move stuff to higsec ( sadly dropped tags have no use locally ) Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.

Aplysia Vejun The Scope Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2015.03.11 11:59:40 - [51] - Quote Drogo Drogos wrote: Nullsec - with no local incomming will become the most dangerous as you can cynodrop / blackops drops / fleet roams day in day out / lone campers and gankers 24/7 in your space. - Noone said anything about removing local from nullsec. And yes, lowsec is more dagerous than nullsec.
IbanezLaney The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing 1381	Posted - 2015.03.12 01:44:19 - [52] - Quote In FW at Teir 4 you can do 600-800mil an hour blitzing a combination of Lev 3 & 4 missions. https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Sequester Risalo Significant Others 78	Posted - 2015.03.12 14:18:11 - [53] - Quote Mr Omniblivion wrote: Wormholes C6 sites: 400+ mil per hour. Varies wildly requiring escalations, etc. C5 sites: 200-400+mil per hour. Requires finding appropriate sites and a hole out of your staging. C3/C4 sites: 100-300+mil per hour. See above C2/C1 sites: Roughly nullsec income, better to do c3+ Data/Relic sites: 70-200 mil per hour. Varies wildly depending on luck. Gas Mining: 50-100 mil per hour. Requires appropriate gas sites, gas varies wildly. Can be done in a low skill Venture. *Note: requires considerable logistics, scouts, etc. Income varies a considerable amount depending on activity and some luck. It would be greatly appreciated for more lowsec/wh folks to chime in and confirm if those numbers look accurate. I suggest dividing Exploration and mininng in low class and high class wormholes. Low class has cheaper gas (ca. 20 million/h) but also sleeper free null sec exploration sites. Also you may rethink the asterisk from C1/C2 as you don't need logi there and the sites are mostly done solo. The ore is like nullsec. Although the asteroids are smaller in low class wormholes there are always abc ores to be found.
Capt Sephiroth 12	Posted - 2015.03.13 11:27:53 - [54] - Quote Drogo Drogos wrote: I dont understand how Fozzy can say Nullsec income is fine compared to other sources of income were risk is minimized or can be managed. Hisec is the safest of them all Lowsec abit more dangerous Nullsec - with no local incomming will become the most dangerous as you can cynodrop / blackops drops / fleet roams day in day out / lone campers and gankers 24/7 in your space. Wormholes are mostly done with groups so there are safety in numbers for C4 and up + you cannot use cyno's and you have vision if a new sig spawns up to see of you get new neighbours. Is CCP truely this blind to see a average anom in a 0.40 / 0.30 system as one of the best income recources in Eve ? With all the risk that is going to be added and the value of these common low security systems i cannot see why they should be buffed to Wormhole levels of income. Let it be group based for all i care so we nullsec players also have a option to socialise with each other to make decent isk. If these changes go trough in the current state of how anoms work and no local you will lose ratting ships day in day out. Like other people said, why even bother when you can make better isk almost risk free elsewhere. Dont forget that a good system can only support a handfull of players before you bump into each other constandly. Many players like me who love to balance their pvp with ratting income to buy more shineys are going to get shafted with the most risk eve has for medium to low isk income. And all CCP Fozzy said is that Nullsec players are making fctons of isk -_- For years now hs was not the safest place in eve at all, before the rework of wh spawning sigs (which now have a delay when someone opens a wh into the system you are currently in) they with null sec were the safest places. Wh's cause you could just put scouts on each wh to listen or watch for reactions and having a window open to check for new sigs to scan down and get there asap if it was another wh, null cause of local and blue doughnuts, all you had to do is watch intel channels and local, if anyone that wasnt blue entered all you had to do is god forbid move to a ss or dock back till he/she moved on. Now when they are actually making null sec to have a degree of risk with a DELAYED local you null people start screaming on how its going to be impossible to farm isk there without even considering or thinking on "HEY I CAN FINALLY DO SOME OTHER KIND OF PVP THEN LIKE A MINER PRESSING F1" however considering this is a PVE post that is to be expected. Coming from a member of goons which have a SRP involved in all their bigger fights and having so many moon goo that generates wealth for them that they can comfortably include titans in those SRP's where do you actually spend your isk, buying officer mods to bling out your PVE ship so you fund your alts that live in hs? And that comment where you want to buy shinnies sorry but that comment sounds more like a rich man crying "I cant pimp out my lambo so I can beat that tractor over there in a drift race on an asphalt airstrip". On a side note nothing ever forbade you of grouping up with other null sec players to do anomalies or missions you might lower your income a bit but you would do them faster no? The thing is that most of you guys went there cause of safety and greed and those master pvp mining like fights.
Organic Lager Organic Lager Corporation 75	Posted - 2015.03.13 14:52:03 - [55] - Quote Mr Omniblivion wrote: Mara Rinn wrote: Blitzing hisec missions for 120M ISK/hr at 1000 ISK/LP? I wish to subscribe to your newsletter! The best I can manage is about 100M ISK/hr at 2000 ISK/LP, assuming I don't get distracted with silly things like warping 120AU in Barkrik or jumping an extra two systems over, or having to go pee. I'm happy to change that if more people confirm that the wealth rate is in fact that low per hour. I did some testing in a not huge level 4 mission area and was able to pull 90-120 an hour over 10 hours. That was in a Tengu. I hear that rattlesnakes are even better at blitzing but didn't test that out. Edit: before ammo costs, obviously. You're going to need at least 1800-2000isk/lp to hit 120m. I have a rather large excel to prove it. Ship type will depend on the mission, i use everything from a mwd frig to a marauder.
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 508	Posted - 2015.03.13 22:29:46 - [56] - Quote My sample size was not the largest, so that could explain the isk/hr variance during that 10 hour session. Would you say 90m/hr is average?
Jonat Eken T.A.N.S.T.A.A.F.L. 1	Posted - 2015.03.14 08:28:42 - [57] - Quote Aplysia Vejun wrote: Drogo Drogos wrote: Nullsec - with no local incomming will become the most dangerous as you can cynodrop / blackops drops / fleet roams day in day out / lone campers and gankers 24/7 in your space. - Noone said anything about removing local from nullsec. And yes, lowsec is more dagerous than nullsec. CCP Fozzie, on Eve Down Under #97 (link goes to pertinent section): Eve Down Under #97 on Soundcloud heavy hinting.
Syn Shi School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 139	Posted - 2015.03.14 14:54:58 - [58] - Quote Drogo Drogos wrote: I dont understand how Fozzy can say Nullsec income is fine compared to other sources of income were risk is minimized or can be managed. Hisec is the safest of them all Lowsec abit more dangerous Nullsec - with no local incomming will become the most dangerous as you can cynodrop / blackops drops / fleet roams day in day out / lone campers and gankers 24/7 in your space. Wormholes are mostly done with groups so there are safety in numbers for C4 and up + you cannot use cyno's and you have vision if a new sig spawns up to see of you get new neighbours. Is CCP truely this blind to see a average anom in a 0.40 / 0.30 system as one of the best income recources in Eve ? With all the risk that is going to be added and the value of these common low security systems i cannot see why they should be buffed to Wormhole levels of income. Let it be group based for all i care so we nullsec players also have a option to socialise with each other to make decent isk. If these changes go trough in the current state of how anoms work and no local you will lose ratting ships day in day out. Like other people said, why even bother when you can make better isk almost risk free elsewhere. Dont forget that a good system can only support a handfull of players before you bump into each other constandly. Many players like me who love to balance their pvp with ratting income to buy more shineys are going to get shafted with the most risk eve has for medium to low isk income. And all CCP Fozzy said is that Nullsec players are making fctons of isk -_- Out of the left side of their mouths nullbears say its empty an beg others to come play in null. Out of the right side of their mouths nullbears say they cant make isk in an empty null. You are a goon, you are too afraid to stray away from the safest space in the game.....the goon blob.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10173	Posted - 2015.03.14 18:20:39 - [59] - Quote Syn Shi wrote: Drogo Drogos wrote: I dont understand how Fozzy can say Nullsec income is fine compared to other sources of income were risk is minimized or can be managed. Hisec is the safest of them all Lowsec abit more dangerous Nullsec - with no local incomming will become the most dangerous as you can cynodrop / blackops drops / fleet roams day in day out / lone campers and gankers 24/7 in your space. Wormholes are mostly done with groups so there are safety in numbers for C4 and up + you cannot use cyno's and you have vision if a new sig spawns up to see of you get new neighbours. Is CCP truely this blind to see a average anom in a 0.40 / 0.30 system as one of the best income recources in Eve ? With all the risk that is going to be added and the value of these common low security systems i cannot see why they should be buffed to Wormhole levels of income. Let it be group based for all i care so we nullsec players also have a option to socialise with each other to make decent isk. If these changes go trough in the current state of how anoms work and no local you will lose ratting ships day in day out. Like other people said, why even bother when you can make better isk almost risk free elsewhere. Dont forget that a good system can only support a handfull of players before you bump into each other constandly. Many players like me who love to balance their pvp with ratting income to buy more shineys are going to get shafted with the most risk eve has for medium to low isk income. And all CCP Fozzy said is that Nullsec players are making fctons of isk -_- Out of the left side of their mouths nullbears say its empty an beg others to come play in null. Out of the right side of their mouths nullbears say they cant make isk in an empty null. You are a goon, you are too afraid to stray away from the safest space in the game.....the goon blob. Behold the useless and ignorant prejudice that contributes nothing to a discussion at all. Complete with not a scrap of real data.
Capt Sephiroth 13	Posted - 2015.03.14 19:29:38 - [60] - Quote Forgot to mention that best isk/h atm and probably ever will be getting a decently paid job and you get with the current prices 800mil/h+. And spend your in game time actually doing something fun.

Jori McKie TURN LEFT The Camel Empire 220	Posted - 2015.03.15 21:54:31 - [61] - Quote I actually didn't wanted to reveal these numbers before i did my "How to blitz LvL 4 guide" but i guess i will never finish it anyway. Numbers are with a perfect skilled Machariel/Frigate char +5 damage imps + a high grade warp speed set and all other relevant skills at 5. Average number of Burner missions were 7.6/h All numbers were gained via over +20h gaming time and specifically aiming for Burner missions With a conversion rate for LP at 2000 System security = 0.461 ISK/h = 130.77m (Bounty+Mission reward and time bonus) LP/h = 129,786 Wealth/h ~ 390m System security = 0.520 ISK/h = 125.89m (Bounty+Mission reward and time bonus) LP/h = 124,588 Wealth/h ~ 373m System security = 0.723 ISK/h = 101.94m (Bounty+Mission reward and time bonus) LP/h = 92,892 Wealth/h ~ 285m And if you don't believe, i don't care. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." --áAbrazzar
Market McSelling Alt Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC 118	Posted - 2015.03.15 22:01:36 - [62] - Quote Jori McKie wrote: I actually didn't wanted to reveal these numbers before i did my "How to blitz LvL 4 guide" but i guess i will never finish it anyway. Numbers are with a perfect skilled Machariel/Frigate char +5 damage imps + a high grade warp speed set and all other relevant skills at 5. Average number of Burner missions were 7.6/h All numbers were gained via over +20h gaming time and specifically aiming for Burner missions With a conversion rate for LP at 2000 System security = 0.461 ISK/h = 130.77m (Bounty+Mission reward and time bonus) LP/h = 129,786 Wealth/h ~ 390m System security = 0.520 ISK/h = 125.89m (Bounty+Mission reward and time bonus) LP/h = 124,588 Wealth/h ~ 373m System security = 0.723 ISK/h = 101.94m (Bounty+Mission reward and time bonus) LP/h = 92,892 Wealth/h ~ 285m And if you don't believe, i don't care. WTB Burner mission that pays out 17.2mil isk please... in less than 8 minutes. Also why the wild swings in bounties between the sec status?
Jori McKie TURN LEFT The Camel Empire 220	Posted - 2015.03.15 22:09:16 - [63] - Quote @Market McSelling Alt On avrg. a Burner mission is 2 jumps out, if it is more then 3 jumps you decline it (often you have 1 or 2 jumps out). With a Frig + warp speed imps you need ~35s per jump. 6jumps = 210s (3.5min) Avrg. time for a Burner mission is ~2.5min That's roughly 6min with maximal 3 jumps out. Each Burner is 5m bountys + rewards + 10k to 14k LP depending on the system security. The difference in ISK/h is the system security, what else. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." --áAbrazzar
Market McSelling Alt Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC 118	Posted - 2015.03.15 22:12:54 - [64] - Quote Jori McKie wrote: @Market McSelling Alt On avrg. a Burner mission is 3 jumps out, if it is more you decline it. With a Frig + warp speed imps you need ~35s per jump. 6jumps = 210s (3.5min) Avrg. time for a Burner mission is ~2.5min That's roughly 6min. Each Burner is 5m bountys + rewards + 10k to 14k LP depending on the system security. The difference in ISK/h is the system security, what else. Wrong. The average distance is much more than 3 jumps. Osmon and Ap are where you are running your missions to get anywhere near the consistent lp conversion and both those in particular are going to send you into lowsec often. Again, you listed the sec status of three SoE systems, which means I know the exact payouts, I listed Osmons exact payout and under perfect conditions and I mean absolutely perfect you are going to get 253mil/hr doing nothing but Burner Agents and ignoring repair, ammo and drone costs.
Jori McKie TURN LEFT The Camel Empire 220	Posted - 2015.03.15 22:14:58 - [65] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Jori McKie wrote: @Market McSelling Alt On avrg. a Burner mission is 3 jumps out, if it is more you decline it. With a Frig + warp speed imps you need ~35s per jump. 6jumps = 210s (3.5min) Avrg. time for a Burner mission is ~2.5min That's roughly 6min. Each Burner is 5m bountys + rewards + 10k to 14k LP depending on the system security. The difference in ISK/h is the system security, what else. Wrong. The average distance is much more than 3 jumps. Osmon and Ap are where you are running your missions to get anywhere near the consistent lp conversion and both those in particular are going to send you into lowsec often. Again, you listed the sec status of three SoE systems, which means I know the exact payouts, I listed Osmons exact payout and under perfect conditions and I mean absolutely perfect you are going to get 253mil/hr doing nothing but Burner Agents and ignoring repair, ammo and drone costs. You are doing it wrong then and if you do it Osmon you are a fool. Try Lanngisi, Nakugard. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." --áAbrazzar
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1424	Posted - 2015.03.16 00:42:58 - [66] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Jori McKie wrote: I actually didn't wanted to reveal these numbers before i did my "How to blitz LvL 4 guide" but i guess i will never finish it anyway. Numbers are with a perfect skilled Machariel/Frigate char +5 damage imps + a high grade warp speed set and all other relevant skills at 5. Average number of Burner missions were 7.6/h All numbers were gained via over +20h gaming time and specifically aiming for Burner missions With a conversion rate for LP at 2000 System security = 0.461 ISK/h = 130.77m (Bounty+Mission reward and time bonus) LP/h = 129,786 Wealth/h ~ 390m System security = 0.520 ISK/h = 125.89m (Bounty+Mission reward and time bonus) LP/h = 124,588 Wealth/h ~ 373m System security = 0.723 ISK/h = 101.94m (Bounty+Mission reward and time bonus) LP/h = 92,892 Wealth/h ~ 285m And if you don't believe, i don't care. WTB Burner mission that pays out 17.2mil isk please... in less than 8 minutes. Also why the wild swings in bounties between the sec status? Or how about this. An Agent burner pays out 2.66mil for the mission and a bonus of 2.66mil Also at .7 sec status they are a 11,500 lp payout... The bounty is always 5mil. Which means 10.32mil in mission pay and LP conversion of 23mil @ 2000 (lulz) given you said 7.6 burners per hour, which I find hard to believe anyways, you are looking at 33.32mil x 7.6 even if you are getting the maximum payout Agent missions only... or 253.232mil So on the surface your numbers are suspect, but add in the fact that you are eventually going to completely screw up your standings declining dozens of missions every hour just to get that many burners, and that you are often sent to lowsec for burners which will eventually result in a several hundred million isk frigate loss... OK, sure, we believe you Lanngisi burners never take you to losec (Lanngisis is 0.46 sec status in a pocket with no losec) and pay over 14k SOE LP which works out at 30 mill ISK per mission just from the LP. (more if you save the LP and cash it in at Amarr rather than Hek) Getting enough of those can be an issue though.
Market McSelling Alt Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC 119	Posted - 2015.03.16 02:21:15 - [67] - Quote Hasikan Miallok wrote: Market McSelling Alt wrote: Jori McKie wrote: I actually didn't wanted to reveal these numbers before i did my "How to blitz LvL 4 guide" but i guess i will never finish it anyway. Numbers are with a perfect skilled Machariel/Frigate char +5 damage imps + a high grade warp speed set and all other relevant skills at 5. Average number of Burner missions were 7.6/h All numbers were gained via over +20h gaming time and specifically aiming for Burner missions With a conversion rate for LP at 2000 System security = 0.461 ISK/h = 130.77m (Bounty+Mission reward and time bonus) LP/h = 129,786 Wealth/h ~ 390m System security = 0.520 ISK/h = 125.89m (Bounty+Mission reward and time bonus) LP/h = 124,588 Wealth/h ~ 373m System security = 0.723 ISK/h = 101.94m (Bounty+Mission reward and time bonus) LP/h = 92,892 Wealth/h ~ 285m And if you don't believe, i don't care. WTB Burner mission that pays out 17.2mil isk please... in less than 8 minutes. Also why the wild swings in bounties between the sec status? Or how about this. An Agent burner pays out 2.66mil for the mission and a bonus of 2.66mil Also at .7 sec status they are a 11,500 lp payout... The bounty is always 5mil. Which means 10.32mil in mission pay and LP conversion of 23mil @ 2000 (lulz) given you said 7.6 burners per hour, which I find hard to believe anyways, you are looking at 33.32mil x 7.6 even if you are getting the maximum payout Agent missions only... or 253.232mil So on the surface your numbers are suspect, but add in the fact that you are eventually going to completely screw up your standings declining dozens of missions every hour just to get that many burners, and that you are often sent to lowsec for burners which will eventually result in a several hundred million isk frigate loss... OK, sure, we believe you Lanngisi burners never take you to losec (Lanngisis is 0.46 sec status in a pocket with no losec and only one exit - Hek) and pay over 14k SOE LP which works out at 30 mill ISK per mission just from the LP. (more if you save the LP and cash it in at Amarr rather than Hek) Getting enough of those can be an issue though. Having one agent limits you a lot. Burners are not constellation limited like other missions... I have seen them ask you to go 14 jumps away, and if there is a low sec close by they tend to send you there. But don't take my word for it, take the hundreds of mission runners declining low sec Burners every day.
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 556	Posted - 2015.03.16 03:01:14 - [68] - Quote What's wrong with doing a burner mission in lowsec?
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1949	Posted - 2015.03.16 03:36:58 - [69] - Quote Those are certainly not average figures for highsec. You are best casing mission running, especially with your quoted LP figures. Unless you consider a partly faction fit Paladin to be a below average speed mission boat, in which case, again you are biasing your figures assuming perfect (& worth ganking) bling boats. With regards to Null Sec incursions, have you taken into account the increase to 15 pilots on VG fleets and the effect that has on completion time even allowing for lower value fits? As that seems low for good VG fleets and 15 pilots with T2 should be faster than 10 with faction fits. Unless again you aren't assuming average fits but the officer fit ISN bling fleets as your case study.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1949	Posted - 2015.03.16 03:38:12 - [70] - Quote Hasikan Miallok wrote: Lanngisi burners never take you to losec (Lanngisis is 0.46 sec status in a pocket with no losec and only one exit - Hek) and pay over 14k SOE LP which works out at 30 mill ISK per mission just from the LP. (more if you save the LP and cash it in at Amarr rather than Hek) Getting enough of those can be an issue though. Having one agent limits you a lot. I had one yesterday sending me into lowsec from there. So.... No they don't never send you to lowsec. Though it is a lower chance.

Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 509	Posted - 2015.03.16 04:25:35 - [71] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Those are certainly not average figures for highsec. You are best casing mission running, especially with your quoted LP figures. Unless you consider a partly faction fit Paladin to be a below average speed mission boat, in which case, again you are biasing your figures assuming perfect (& worth ganking) bling boats. With regards to Null Sec incursions, have you taken into account the increase to 15 pilots on VG fleets and the effect that has on completion time even allowing for lower value fits? As that seems low for good VG fleets and 15 pilots with T2 should be faster than 10 with faction fits. Unless again you aren't assuming average fits but the officer fit ISN bling fleets as your case study. If you can show me data that proves otherwise, I'll gladly update it. From my own testing with a 1bil isk Tengu, I was able to pull those numbers. That was also without rejecting missions. If you optimize it, you can make hundred(s) of millions of ISK per hour blitzing, or less than a hundred million an hour casually missioning. Null incursions are not done consistently enough to provide solid incomes for groups without them having to fully deploy to different (hostile) regions. We have a squad that does incursions as frequently as they can. Sure, while incursions are nice when they're nearby, having to deploy regions away means that only smaller groups are able to consistently participate in less than optimal sites. With the amount of coordination that goes into nullsec incursions, there is better risk/effort to reward ratio simply living in a WH.
Market McSelling Alt Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC 119	Posted - 2015.03.16 05:04:29 - [72] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Hasikan Miallok wrote: Lanngisi burners never take you to losec (Lanngisis is 0.46 sec status in a pocket with no losec and only one exit - Hek) and pay over 14k SOE LP which works out at 30 mill ISK per mission just from the LP. (more if you save the LP and cash it in at Amarr rather than Hek) Getting enough of those can be an issue though. Having one agent limits you a lot. I had one yesterday sending me into lowsec from there. So.... No they don't never send you to lowsec. Though it is a lower chance. And the second problem with his statement is his math... Even if it was true that he was getting 14k lp from the Burner Mission (not all are that high) he is giving us 30mil isk as the conversion even though by his own words it should be 28mil. He is simply fudging numbers to prove a point, but those of us who run these know that even on paper he is not entirely truthful with his calculations let alone the real world application of running such missions.
Jori McKie TURN LEFT The Camel Empire 221	Posted - 2015.03.16 08:03:44 - [73] - Quote My original post are avrg. numbers, lets reverse them for Lanngisi: System security = 0.461 ISK/h = 130.77m (Bounty+Mission reward and time bonus) LP/h = 129,786 Wealth/h ~ 390m Burner Mission in Lanngisi: ~ 5m bounty + 6.5m reward ~11.5m ~ 14k LP reward 130m/11.5m = 11.30 Burner mission per hour. 130,000/14,000 = 9.28 Burner mission per hour. Those numbers mean, i wasn't doing Burner missions exclusively and i actually did a lot of Assault. That explains the surplus of ISK and deficit of LP. Anyway the best way is test it for yourself if you don't believe my numbers. Key points are: - Perfect skilled Machariel/Frigate char +5 damage imps + a high grade warp speed set and all other relevant skills at 5. - Don't accept Burner mission which are more than +3jumps out - Don't accept normal mission out of the pool i posted which are more than +2jumps out - Make sure your agent standing is at avrg. 0. In case you start fresh or have a very bad streak you might have to accept more normal mission out of this pool for Minmatar and Amarr agents. Pirate Invasion GÇô Angel Attack of the Drones GÇô Drones Mining Misappropriation GÇô Sansha Stop The Thief GÇô Mercs Gone Berserk GÇô EOM avoid this pool if you can: Unauthorized Military GÇô Angel Blockade GÇô Angel Pirate Invasion GÇô Sansha Damsel in Distress GÇô Mercs XXX Spies GÇô Angel Right Hand of Zazzmatazz GÇô Mercs Rogue Slave Trader 1+2 GÇô Sansha Infiltrated Outposts GÇô Drone And decline all other missions. This is a copy/paste from my sheet for different runs in Lanngisi: LP/h Avrg.ISKm/h Avrg. 129,797131 122,487117 120,110119 138,956134 125,218126 129,281143 142,656146 Avrg.: 129.786130,77 "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." --áAbrazzar
Gary Bell Herp Inc.dot Darwinism. 133	Posted - 2015.03.16 11:52:59 - [74] - Quote Interesting thread.. Just wondering how the SmartBombing Ratters match up.. Although it requires 4 toons that is by far the some of the most lucrative isk in this game and it is a constant stream 24/7 anytime you want in null? If it still works which I have not done it in like a year or more it was like 550-600 Mil an Hour not counting esculations and faction spawns which happen roughly 2 per hour once you get in a groove. Not to mention the initial isk input of about 3 Bil for the proper ships and smartbombs, and the need for .8 or lower space. ( You need this space because you need at minimum 6 Havens so you have at least 3 gated, you can literally run them faster then they can spawn in any other space killing your isk per hour ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hAMnfgbLT0
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10177	Posted - 2015.03.16 12:24:43 - [75] - Quote Gary Bell wrote: Interesting thread.. Just wondering how the SmartBombing Ratters match up.. Although it requires 4 toons that is by far the some of the most lucrative isk in this game and it is a constant stream 24/7 anytime you want in null? If it still works which I have not done it in like a year or more it was like 550-600 Mil an Hour not counting esculations and faction spawns which happen roughly 2 per hour once you get in a groove. Not to mention the initial isk input of about 3 Bil for the proper ships and smartbombs, and the need for .8 or lower space. ( You need this space because you need at minimum 6 Havens so you have at least 3 gated, you can literally run them faster then they can spawn in any other space killing your isk per hour ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hAMnfgbLT0 I had a buddy who did that and swore by it. To me, it was WAY too much work. A much better, cheaper and easier and almost as lucrative set up is 4 Navy Ravens, all tech2 cheap fit, all with rigor rigs and Auto-Targetting missiles. Each had a target painter for initial aggro only (ie the very 1st time you warp into a site, each ship TPs something to tell the missiles "these npcs are your target" and after that you don't have to use the tp again, though I would every once in a while on a frig). Every pilot has +3 missile implants for damage, rof and speed and application. I'd stagger the launches as well to reduce (you cannot eliminate) time lost to over-kill (I would start the missiles on one ship, count to 2, start them on another ship etc till I was finished). Since ccp fixed auto-target missiles to not hit structures, it's just this massive wall of rigored auto-target cruise missiles sweeping a site. If you had enough forsaken hubs or havens it's 400+ per hour and the set up costs is WAY less than smart bombing, though their is ammo cost and the pain of making or moving a lot of missiles to where you rat. I haven't done it in 6 months (I dual box rattlesnakes now, mainly because it's hard for me keeping 4 characters in ratting space) but a buddy of mine does and swears by it still. And yea, it still sucks that it takes you 4 ships to do in null what a stealth bomber can do in FW under the right circumstances.
Market McSelling Alt Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC 119	Posted - 2015.03.16 12:26:09 - [76] - Quote Jori McKie wrote: My original post are avrg. numbers, lets do some reverse math for Lanngisi: System security = 0.461 ISK/h = 130.77m (Bounty+Mission reward and time bonus) LP/h = 129,786 Wealth/h ~ 390m Burner Mission in Lanngisi: ~ 5m bounty + 6.5m reward ~11.5m ~ 14k LP reward 130m/11.5m = 11.30 Burner mission per hour. 130,000/14,000 = 9.28 Burner mission per hour. Those numbers mean, i wasn't doing Burner missions exclusively and i actually did a lot Assault. That explains the surplus of ISK and deficit of LP. Anyway the best way is test it for yourself if you don't believe my numbers. Key points are: - Perfect skilled Machariel/Frigate char +5 damage imps + a high grade warp speed set and all other relevant skills at 5. - Don't accept Burner mission which are more than +3jumps out - Don't accept normal mission out of the pool i posted here which are more than +2jumps out and always blitz them if possible - Make sure your agent standing is at avrg. 0. In case you start fresh or have a very bad streak you might have to accept more normal mission out of this pool for Minmatar and Amarr agents. Pirate Invasion GÇô Angel Attack of the Drones GÇô Drones Mining Misappropriation GÇô Sansha Stop The Thief GÇô Mercs Gone Berserk GÇô EOM avoid this pool if you can: Unauthorized Military GÇô Angel Blockade GÇô Angel Pirate Invasion GÇô Sansha Damsel in Distress GÇô Mercs XXX Spies GÇô Angel Right Hand of Zazzmatazz GÇô Mercs Rogue Slave Trader 1+2 GÇô Sansha Infiltrated Outposts GÇô Drone And decline all other missions. This is a copy/paste from my sheet for different runs in Lanngisi: LP/h ISKm/h 129,797 131 122,487 117 120,110 119 138,956 134 125,218 126 129,281 143 142,656 146 Avrg.: 129.786130.77 You just told us you averaged 7.6 Burners per hour... so now you are just pulling crap out of your back end? You also claimed to do a Burner undock to dock in 6 minutes but now you are claiming to do more than 10 an hour? All this while also doing regular missions on top?! just stop, you're busted. Also, if you are running for Amarr or Min agents you are not getting anywhere near 2000isk/lp on a consistent basis. There is a very limted number of items from a very limited number of agents that can do that. Double busted.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10177	Posted - 2015.03.16 12:30:25 - [77] - Quote As a side note Reading this thread it's very clear that the divide is between the people who are actually good at PVE and the folks who, erm umh, are not so much and need to make excuses about why they can't do as well as others. Good PVErs who take the time to learn how to get the most out of it while the poor ones spend all their time claiming "you can't do that, mainly because i can't do that so i know you can't do that" lol. Good PVErs also understand that their is always someone out their better than them. Most times, the people claiming it can't be done haven't even tried.
Jori McKie TURN LEFT The Camel Empire 221	Posted - 2015.03.16 12:45:50 - [78] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Jori McKie wrote: My original post are avrg. numbers, lets do some reverse math for Lanngisi: System security = 0.461 ISK/h = 130.77m (Bounty+Mission reward and time bonus) LP/h = 129,786 Wealth/h ~ 390m Burner Mission in Lanngisi: ~ 5m bounty + 6.5m reward ~11.5m ~ 14k LP reward 130m/11.5m = 11.30 Burner mission per hour. 130,000/14,000 = 9.28 Burner mission per hour. Those numbers mean, i wasn't doing Burner missions exclusively and i actually did a lot Assault. That explains the surplus of ISK and deficit of LP. Anyway the best way is test it for yourself if you don't believe my numbers. Key points are: - Perfect skilled Machariel/Frigate char +5 damage imps + a high grade warp speed set and all other relevant skills at 5. - Don't accept Burner mission which are more than +3jumps out - Don't accept normal mission out of the pool i posted here which are more than +2jumps out and always blitz them if possible - Make sure your agent standing is at avrg. 0. In case you start fresh or have a very bad streak you might have to accept more normal mission out of this pool for Minmatar and Amarr agents. Pirate Invasion GÇô Angel Attack of the Drones GÇô Drones Mining Misappropriation GÇô Sansha Stop The Thief GÇô Mercs Gone Berserk GÇô EOM avoid this pool if you can: Unauthorized Military GÇô Angel Blockade GÇô Angel Pirate Invasion GÇô Sansha Damsel in Distress GÇô Mercs XXX Spies GÇô Angel Right Hand of Zazzmatazz GÇô Mercs Rogue Slave Trader 1+2 GÇô Sansha Infiltrated Outposts GÇô Drone And decline all other missions. This is a copy/paste from my sheet for different runs in Lanngisi: LP/h ISKm/h 129,797 131 122,487 117 120,110 119 138,956 134 125,218 126 129,281 143 142,656 146 Avrg.: 129.786130.77 You just told us you averaged 7.6 Burners per hour... so now you are just pulling crap out of your back end? You also claimed to do a Burner undock to dock in 6 minutes but now you are claiming to do more than 10 an hour? All this while also doing regular missions on top?! just stop, you're busted. Also, if you are running for Amarr or Min agents you are not getting anywhere near 2000isk/lp on a consistent basis. There is a very limted number of items from a very limited number of agents that can do that. Double busted. You sure as hell have absolutely no clue. Yes, i said the i get 7.6 Burner missions per hour on average, that does not mean i didn't do some normal mission too. Read my original post very carefully. It says you have to accept some normal mission too otherwise your agent standing will be screwed in the long term aka you get below -2. You can't force pure Burner missions. Again read carefully what i wrote: Quote: On avrg. a Burner mission is 2 jumps out, if it is more than 3 jumps you decline it (often you have 1 or 2 jumps out). With a Frig + warp speed imps you need ~35s per jump. 6jumps = 210s (3.5min) Avrg. time for a Burner mission is ~2.5min That's roughly 6min with maximal 3 jumps out. That means the worst case aka 3jumps out will cost you 6min, you will have lots of 1 and 2 jump out Burner missions. 1 jump out time needed ~220s (~3.66min) warp time = ~70s kill time = avrg. 150s (there a lots of Burner missions you need only 60s to 80s to finish) 2 jumps out out time needed ~290s (~4.83min) warp time = ~140s kill time = avrg. 150s (there a lots of Burner missions you need only 60s to 80s to finish) SOE missions in Lanngisi have the Minmatar mission pool. Avrg. LP conversion rate for SOE (no tags needed) is still at 2000 Avrg. LP conversion rate for Minmatar with tags from sell orders in Jita is ~2200 (varies +-300, depending the day you buy) Avrg. LP conversion rate for Amarr with tags from sell orders in Jita is ~2100 (varies +-300, depending the day you buy) Of course the LP conversion does not apply to any "Navy" corps, you have to choose the right corp with a good LP shop aka 5 run BPCs. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." --áAbrazzar
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10177	Posted - 2015.03.16 13:03:33 - [79] - Quote Jori McKie wrote: You sure as hell have absolutely no clue. That's putting it 'mildly' Quote: Yes, i said the i get 7.6 Burner missions per hour on average, that does not mean i didn't do some normal mission too. Read my original post very carefully. It says you have to accept some normal mission too otherwise your agent standing will be screwed in the long term aka you get below -2. You can't force pure Burner missions. You can't with a single toon. You can with an alt using the same "ping pong" method you'd use for lvl 5 missions (alt gets standings for every completed mission but doesn't take a hit when you decline, so you burn your main's standings, then start pulling missions with the alt, aka ping pong), but doing it with an alt means you have to take the alt into account for isk/hour calculations. The best way is with an actual "real player" partner. Me and my buddy do this. He pulls his own missions and does his own missions and I do the same but we are in fleet so we are sharing rewards/standings. You can go indefinitely like this without tanking your standings as long as both of you are running at roughly the same rate. With a couple good drops (which are uncommon) I've made enough for a plex in a night using both methods. But of course since McSelling alt can't do it what we are talking about must be impossible, right?
Jori McKie TURN LEFT The Camel Empire 221	Posted - 2015.03.16 13:17:03 - [80] - Quote @Jenn aSide I know, that's one of the reasons why i posted my numbers here. My goal was to write a full "how to blitz LvL 4" and just see the faction item and tag market burn/explode but i'm to lazy/less time to do it. The LP and ISK from declining bad LvL 4 to get as many Burner Missions as possible are ridiculous, if like 25% of all mission runner would do it the market would crash and you can already see the writing on the wall. If you team up with a real partner in a fleet you sure as hell could do only Burner missions, i would love to see your numbers on that. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." --áAbrazzar

Market McSelling Alt Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC 119	Posted - 2015.03.16 16:37:55 - [81] - Quote Jori McKie wrote: @Jenn aSide I know, that's one of the reasons why i posted my numbers here. My goal was to write a full "how to blitz LvL 4" and just see the faction item and tag market burn/explode but i'm to lazy/less time to do it. The LP and ISK from declining bad LvL 4 to get as many Burner Missions as possible are ridiculous, if like 25% of all mission runner would do it the market would crash and you can already see the writing on the wall. If you team up with a real partner in a fleet you sure as hell could do only Burner missions, i would love to see your numbers on that. You aren't running that many burners AND regular missions in one hour. It simply cannot be done. You literally would be completing a mission in under 4 minutes to do what you said and with the set of missions listed that is impossible. Good try though. But you got Jenn A on your side, so you pretty much already lost the argument. It also ceases to be that income per hour when you have a fleet of toons that pull missions together. At that point you have to divide your income per hour by each toon as the LP and rewards are being split among them all.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10179	Posted - 2015.03.16 16:49:10 - [82] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: You aren't running that many burners AND regular missions in one hour. It simply cannot be done. You literally would be completing a mission in under 4 minutes to do what you said and with the set of missions listed that is impossible. And again this guy proves my point. He doesn't know how to do something, so it must be impossible. Here's a guy doing it in low sec, regular missions, a few minutes between each one with a paper thin Naga. you can do the EXACT same thing in high sec if you know where to mission (like my spot, 6 lvl 4 agents withing 2 jumps of the home station, with corps that have mining implants or 5 run BPCs, a Thukker agent nearby thrown into the mix helps too). So again, thank you for demonstrating your marked lack of PVE experience, people who read this thread now know who to listen to, and more importantly, who not to. Thanks for the help.
Market McSelling Alt Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC 119	Posted - 2015.03.16 16:55:26 - [83] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Market McSelling Alt wrote: You aren't running that many burners AND regular missions in one hour. It simply cannot be done. You literally would be completing a mission in under 4 minutes to do what you said and with the set of missions listed that is impossible. And again this guy proves my point. He doesn't know how to do something, so it must be impossible. Here's a guy doing it in low sec, regular missions, a few minutes between each one with a paper thin Naga. you can do the EXACT same thing in high sec if you know where to mission (like my spot, 6 lvl 4 agents withing 2 jumps of the home station, with corps that have mining implants or 5 run BPCs, a Thukker agent nearby thrown into the mix helps too). So again, thank you for demonstrating your marked lack of PVE experience, people who read this thread now know who to listen to, and more importantly, who not to. Thanks for the help. First things first... that was a Fleet Stabber lol, not a Naga Second it was 22 minutes of cherry picking level 3's with a multiple agent station Third, it was lowsec, not highsec and LP rewards are almost double out there. Fourth, it was 22 minutes that started with a preload of three missions. Regardless it was impressive but knowing who he is running missions for he is not getting good LP conversion from Z&S so his numbers are wack. Fifth, he has to watch very closely as you can see around the 10 minute mark to not fall under -2 as he would be banned from those missions. But good spin attempt. Edit: If you think a Naga is paper thin you know very little about the ship
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10180	Posted - 2015.03.16 17:20:32 - [84] - Quote Wrong link, here is the Naga Quote: Second it was 22 minutes of cherry picking level 3's with a multiple agent station Exhibit #1. You think Dread Pirate Scarlet is a LEVEL 3 MISSION. Quote: Third, it was lowsec, not highsec and LP rewards are almost double out there. Exhibit #2, pretending like we weren't talking about MISSION TIME not mission rewards. Quote: Fourth, it was 22 minutes that started with a preload of three missions. Regardless it was impressive but knowing who he is running missions for he is not getting good LP conversion from Z&S so his numbers are wack. Exhibit #3 not knowing how to convert LP. Quote: Fifth, he has to watch very closely as you can see around the 10 minute mark to not fall under -2 as he would be banned from those missions. But good spin attempt. Exhibit #4 not knowing how standings work in this particular case, which the author addressed in the comments section. Quote: Edit: If you think a Naga is paper thin you know very little about the ship Exhibit #5 not knowing why a buffer fit naga is paper thin in a mission.' You don't even do mission do you? I mean it's clear that you don't know what you are talking about (while disputing not only the empirical evidence provided by various posters, my clear personal experience and VIDEOS). That's beyond sad man, that you need to go to these kinds of crazy lengths disputing something that you obviously don't know about. The real question is why? And again, thanks for your help by discrediting your own pve knowledge.
Market McSelling Alt Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC 119	Posted - 2015.03.16 17:49:25 - [85] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Stuff Yeah because I said he was "ONLY" doing level 3's? No I believe he was cherry picking 3s and 4s His very own thread in Russian forums is filled with people calling him out. Also his mission times were not all that impressive, averaged 4 minutes a mission for less than 6000 lp per mission average. I have run more missions for more years than I care to admit. I am not a professional forum troll like you, this is just a passing interest. But you are hilarious moving your goal posts all over to save your point. We were not just talking mission times, we were talking the viability of the total claim. Buffer Naga for missions... oh boy. Just going to point out that you have been correct about one thing, that is this thread is full of people who can and who cannot do PVE well... And you are definitely someone who's forum skills match the lack of their PVE skills. It is only possible to make 300mil isk per hour doing level 4's in highsec if you have an absolutely perfect set of circumstances and it is nearly impossible to maintain. Also it is nearly impossible without multiple characters. You seem to be on a crusade Jenn, and you are letting it cloud your judgement.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10180	Posted - 2015.03.16 18:01:14 - [86] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Stuff Yeah because I said he was "ONLY" doing level 3's? No I believe he was cherry picking 3s and 4s His very own thread in Russian forums is filled with people calling him out. Also his mission times were not all that impressive, averaged 4 minutes a mission for less than 6000 lp per mission average. I have run more missions for more years than I care to admit. I am not a professional forum troll like you, this is just a passing interest. But you are hilarious moving your goal posts all over to save your point. We were not just talking mission times, we were talking the viability of the total claim. Buffer Naga for missions... oh boy. Just going to point out that you have been correct about one thing, that is this thread is full of people who can and who cannot do PVE well... And you are definitely someone who's forum skills match the lack of their PVE skills. It is only possible to make 300mil isk per hour doing level 4's in highsec if you have an absolutely perfect set of circumstances and it is nearly impossible to maintain. Also it is nearly impossible without multiple characters. You seem to be on a crusade Jenn, and you are letting it cloud your judgement. The truth is a Crusade? Then I'm guilty. you're on the record for your beliefs and you are posting nonsense in this thread because the truth of the OP (none of which mentions 300 mil per hour in high sec btw) because it threatens your beliefs. The problem here is that you're the single only poster who hasn't posted a shred of proof about his beliefs. All you display is short sighted prejudice. Like I said, it's done, people who know how to PVE know who to listen to and who not too. You can pretend I'm your problem (like you always have) rather than spend a bit of time developing a sense on honesty and asking yourself why you are getting it wrong, but in the long run, that's just the road to continued failure. Good day sir.
Jori McKie TURN LEFT The Camel Empire 221	Posted - 2015.03.16 18:37:50 - [87] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Jori McKie wrote: @Jenn aSide I know, that's one of the reasons why i posted my numbers here. My goal was to write a full "how to blitz LvL 4" and just see the faction item and tag market burn/explode but i'm to lazy/less time to do it. The LP and ISK from declining bad LvL 4 to get as many Burner Missions as possible are ridiculous, if like 25% of all mission runner would do it the market would crash and you can already see the writing on the wall. If you team up with a real partner in a fleet you sure as hell could do only Burner missions, i would love to see your numbers on that. You aren't running that many burners AND regular missions in one hour. It simply cannot be done. You literally would be completing a mission in under 4 minutes to do what you said and with the set of missions listed that is impossible. Good try though. But you got Jenn A on your side, so you pretty much already lost the argument. Again i am talking here about averages. That means i could run like 10x Burner + xx normal ones or like 3x Burner + xx normal ones. It depends on RNG what the agent throws at you. Anyway some more numbers, mission times in this case, all times are blitzing times aka fastest possible. They do not include travel times. Be aware of the different time setup 3:45min means 3min+45s and it is not equal to 3.45min Main pool: 0:37min Recon - Part 1 only 2:10min Dread Pirate Scarlet 4:07min Assault GÇô Serpentis 3:45min Assault GÇô Guristas 4:55min Enemies Abound - Part 1 only 0:20min Pot and Kettle - Part 1 2nd tier pool: 3:15min Pirate Invasion GÇô Angel 2:02min Attack of the Drones GÇô Drones 7:35min Mining Misappropriation GÇô Sansha 1:07min Stop The Thief GÇô Mercs 2:45min Gone Berserk GÇô EOM As you can see an Assault takes ~4min as every Assault is in system add an extra 1min (Machariel warp speed is ~5.5AU) for warping to the mission and back to station, roughly 5min to complete it. Now back to average stuff: 10x Burner missions at average ~50min 2x Assault at average ~10min or 7.6x Burner missions at average ~38min xx normal mission ~22min (any combination form the main pool) Market McSelling Alt wrote: It also ceases to be that income per hour when you have a fleet of toons that pull missions together. At that point you have to divide your income per hour by each toon as the LP and rewards are being split among them all This last sentence proves again you did not understand a thing. Jenn was talking about fleeting up with a real player, both doing the same, blitzing missions on their own like hell and share the reward and standing, that is a sneaky way to avoid getting close to a -2 agent standing. Do you understand? "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." --áAbrazzar
Market McSelling Alt Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC 119	Posted - 2015.03.16 20:26:38 - [88] - Quote Jori McKie wrote: Market McSelling Alt wrote: Jori McKie wrote: @Jenn aSide I know, that's one of the reasons why i posted my numbers here. My goal was to write a full "how to blitz LvL 4" and just see the faction item and tag market burn/explode but i'm to lazy/less time to do it. The LP and ISK from declining bad LvL 4 to get as many Burner Missions as possible are ridiculous, if like 25% of all mission runner would do it the market would crash and you can already see the writing on the wall. If you team up with a real partner in a fleet you sure as hell could do only Burner missions, i would love to see your numbers on that. You aren't running that many burners AND regular missions in one hour. It simply cannot be done. You literally would be completing a mission in under 4 minutes to do what you said and with the set of missions listed that is impossible. Good try though. But you got Jenn A on your side, so you pretty much already lost the argument. Again i am talking here about averages. That means i could run like 10x Burner + xx normal ones or like 3x Burner + xx normal ones. It depends on RNG what the agent throws at you. Anyway some more numbers, mission times in this case, all times are blitzing times aka fastest possible. They do not include travel times. Be aware of the different time setup 3:45min means 3min+45s and it is not equal to 3.45min Main pool: 0:37min Recon - Part 1 only 2:10min Dread Pirate Scarlet 4:07min Assault GÇô Serpentis 3:45min Assault GÇô Guristas 4:55min Enemies Abound - Part 1 only 0:20min Pot and Kettle - Part 1 2nd tier pool: 3:15min Pirate Invasion GÇô Angel 2:02min Attack of the Drones GÇô Drones 7:35min Mining Misappropriation GÇô Sansha 1:07min Stop The Thief GÇô Mercs 2:45min Gone Berserk GÇô EOM As you can see an Assault takes ~4min as every Assault is in system add an extra 1min (Machariel warp speed is ~5.5AU) for warping to the mission and back to station, roughly 5min to complete it. Now back to average stuff: 10x Burner missions at average ~50min 2x Assault ~10min or 7.6x Burner missions at average ~38min xx normal mission ~22min (any combination form the main pool) Market McSelling Alt wrote: It also ceases to be that income per hour when you have a fleet of toons that pull missions together. At that point you have to divide your income per hour by each toon as the LP and rewards are being split among them all This last sentence proves again you did not understand a thing. Jenn was talking about fleeting up with a real player, both doing the same, blitzing missions on their own like hell and share the reward and standing, that is a sneaky way to avoid getting close to a -2 agent standing. Do you understand? Everything ended when you just said "they do not include travel times" That is just fail. As if game time, real life time and all calculations stop with your stopwatch. Mission income MUST include travel time or it is just BS coming from a dark, moist place on your posterior.
ValentinaDLM Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 620	Posted - 2015.03.16 20:35:08 - [89] - Quote 8/10 Enjoying the tears in this thread even if there seems to be a lack of an actual discussion, more of a "I can do this" and a "No you can't".
Jori McKie TURN LEFT The Camel Empire 221	Posted - 2015.03.16 20:47:40 - [90] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Everything ended when you just said "they do not include travel times" That is just fail. As if game time, real life time and all calculations stop with your stopwatch. Mission income MUST include travel time or it is just BS coming from a dark, moist place on your posterior. You are high or something? I'm going into troll mode on you now as you make absolute no sense. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." --áAbrazzar

Market McSelling Alt Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC 119	Posted - 2015.03.16 20:49:01 - [91] - Quote Jori McKie wrote: Market McSelling Alt wrote: Everything ended when you just said "they do not include travel times" That is just fail. As if game time, real life time and all calculations stop with your stopwatch. Mission income MUST include travel time or it is just BS coming from a dark, moist place on your posterior. You are high or something? I'm going into troll mode on you now as you make absolute no sense. Confirming you don't believe travel time is important for income calculations. Please, dig the hole deeper
Jori McKie TURN LEFT The Camel Empire 221	Posted - 2015.03.16 20:55:53 - [92] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Jori McKie wrote: Market McSelling Alt wrote: Everything ended when you just said "they do not include travel times" That is just fail. As if game time, real life time and all calculations stop with your stopwatch. Mission income MUST include travel time or it is just BS coming from a dark, moist place on your posterior. You are high or something? I'm going into troll mode on you now as you make absolute no sense. Confirming you don't believe travel time is important for income calculations. Please, dig the hole deeper Dude, i gave you the travel time already just do the freaking math yourself for 1 jump and 2 jumps. Or just try it out yourself, or just search the forum, or just search my name as i calculated them once and even posted tested numbers. You just remind me of Chuckie from Shamless IQ tested at 71. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." --áAbrazzar
stoicfaux 5523	Posted - 2015.03.16 23:14:32 - [93] - Quote Jori McKie wrote: Average number of Burner missions were 7.6/h All numbers were gained via over +20h gaming time and specifically aiming for Burner missions Nice work! Thanks for posting the results and key strategies, especially about standings. However, I have to ask, did you include ship losses in your wealth/hour? You mentioned a loss streak in the main burner thread (awesome thread, btw, very useful info.) Plus with overheating having a random component, overheating can make some T2 fits less than 100% reliable. Losses while learning are a write off, but losses when you're an "expert" should count as an expense against wealth/hour. Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
stoicfaux 5523	Posted - 2015.03.17 02:04:20 - [94] - Quote Jori McKie wrote: Average number of Burner missions were 7.6/h All numbers were gained via over +20h gaming time and specifically aiming for Burner missions Also, any luck with faction loot drops? Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Jori McKie TURN LEFT The Camel Empire 222	Posted - 2015.03.17 07:43:53 - [95] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: Jori McKie wrote: Average number of Burner missions were 7.6/h All numbers were gained via over +20h gaming time and specifically aiming for Burner missions Nice work! Thanks for posting the results and key strategies, especially about standings. However, I have to ask, did you include ship losses in your wealth/hour? You mentioned a loss streak in the main burner thread (awesome thread, btw, very useful info.) Plus with overheating having a random component, overheating can make some T2 fits less than 100% reliable. Losses while learning are a write off, but losses when you're an "expert" should count as an expense against wealth/hour. Usually i stop overheat when i reach 80% damage, you could do 1x more overheat cycle but the difference is negligible at worst you lose 1s or 2s. No, i didn't include losses, i should of course but to be honest i didn't track them over time so i can give you only an estimation: Every ~60h (60h with 370m = 22.2b) gaming time with 1.2b loss if you aren't very careful. stoicfaux wrote: Also, any luck with faction loot drops? Didn't track that either but as far as i can tell, it is something like every ~15 Burner you get a faction drop. I have no idea how much ISK at avrg. that is. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." --áAbrazzar
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1960	Posted - 2015.03.17 21:47:31 - [96] - Quote Mr Omniblivion wrote: If you can show me data that proves otherwise, I'll gladly update it. From my own testing with a 1bil isk Tengu, I was able to pull those numbers. That was also without rejecting missions. If you optimize it, you can make hundred(s) of millions of ISK per hour blitzing, or less than a hundred million an hour casually missioning. Null incursions are not done consistently enough to provide solid incomes for groups without them having to fully deploy to different (hostile) regions. We have a squad that does incursions as frequently as they can. Sure, while incursions are nice when they're nearby, having to deploy regions away means that only smaller groups are able to consistently participate in less than optimal sites. With the amount of coordination that goes into nullsec incursions, there is better risk/effort to reward ratio simply living in a WH. Fair enough on Null Incursions. CCP was taking steps to impove the viability of low & null incursions without making individual account payout simply higher with the 50% more pilots per fleet move they did, though only doing it to VG sites didn't really provide a good test. And I agree it's not an income a particular null group can say 'we will always do this' My testing over the last week with missions taking real time into account has me earning 20-25 million isk per hour and 12-18k LP per hour. This is about 10 hours of missioning, the low figures are ignoring missions like Scarlet which are RNG gamble to get, high figures including them in the 10 hour average. Obviously this was not aiming to blitz missions, but I believe provides a much fairer version of an 'average' mission income than the perfect officer fit speed runner with perfect skills. This is running from a 0.5 system also, which not all mission runners will be as well. Top income is likely where you have it listed for missions, but that's a far cry from average.
Kaivar Lancer Little Rat Company 599	Posted - 2015.05.27 08:10:19 - [97] - Quote Jori McKie wrote: Market McSelling Alt wrote: Jori McKie wrote: My original post are avrg. numbers, lets do some reverse math for Lanngisi: System security = 0.461 ISK/h = 130.77m (Bounty+Mission reward and time bonus) LP/h = 129,786 Wealth/h ~ 390m Burner Mission in Lanngisi: ~ 5m bounty + 6.5m reward ~11.5m ~ 14k LP reward 130m/11.5m = 11.30 Burner mission per hour. 130,000/14,000 = 9.28 Burner mission per hour. Those numbers mean, i wasn't doing Burner missions exclusively and i actually did a lot Assault. That explains the surplus of ISK and deficit of LP. Anyway the best way is test it for yourself if you don't believe my numbers. Key points are: - Perfect skilled Machariel/Frigate char +5 damage imps + a high grade warp speed set and all other relevant skills at 5. - Don't accept Burner mission which are more than +3jumps out - Don't accept normal mission out of the pool i posted here which are more than +2jumps out and always blitz them if possible - Make sure your agent standing is at avrg. 0. In case you start fresh or have a very bad streak you might have to accept more normal mission out of this pool for Minmatar and Amarr agents. Pirate Invasion GÇô Angel Attack of the Drones GÇô Drones Mining Misappropriation GÇô Sansha Stop The Thief GÇô Mercs Gone Berserk GÇô EOM avoid this pool if you can: Unauthorized Military GÇô Angel Blockade GÇô Angel Pirate Invasion GÇô Sansha Damsel in Distress GÇô Mercs XXX Spies GÇô Angel Right Hand of Zazzmatazz GÇô Mercs Rogue Slave Trader 1+2 GÇô Sansha Infiltrated Outposts GÇô Drone And decline all other missions. This is a copy/paste from my sheet for different runs in Lanngisi: LP/h ISKm/h 129,797 131 122,487 117 120,110 119 138,956 134 125,218 126 129,281 143 142,656 146 Avrg.: 129.786130.77 You just told us you averaged 7.6 Burners per hour... so now you are just pulling crap out of your back end? You also claimed to do a Burner undock to dock in 6 minutes but now you are claiming to do more than 10 an hour? All this while also doing regular missions on top?! just stop, you're busted. Also, if you are running for Amarr or Min agents you are not getting anywhere near 2000isk/lp on a consistent basis. There is a very limted number of items from a very limited number of agents that can do that. Double busted. You sure as hell have absolutely no clue. Yes, i said the i get 7.6 Burner missions per hour on average, that does not mean i didn't do some normal mission too. Read my original post very carefully. It says you have to accept some normal mission too otherwise your agent standing will be screwed in the long term aka you get below -2. You can't force pure Burner missions. Again read carefully what i wrote: Quote: On avrg. a Burner mission is 2 jumps out, if it is more than 3 jumps you decline it (often you have 1 or 2 jumps out). With a Frig + warp speed imps you need ~35s per jump. 6jumps = 210s (3.5min) Avrg. time for a Burner mission is ~2.5min That's roughly 6min with maximal 3 jumps out. That means the worst case aka 3jumps out will cost you 6min, you will have lots of 1 and 2 jump out Burner missions. 1 jump out time needed ~220s (~3.66min) warp time = ~70s kill time = avrg. 150s (there a lots of Burner missions you need only 60s to 80s to finish) 2 jumps out out time needed ~290s (~4.83min) warp time = ~140s kill time = avrg. 150s (there a lots of Burner missions you need only 60s to 80s to finish) SOE missions in Lanngisi have the Minmatar mission pool. Avrg. LP conversion rate for SOE (no tags needed) is still at 2000 Avrg. LP conversion rate for Minmatar with tags from sell orders in Jita is ~2200 (varies +-300, depending the day you buy) Avrg. LP conversion rate for Amarr with tags from sell orders in Jita is ~2100 (varies +-300, depending the day you buy) Of course the LP conversion does not apply to any "Navy" corps, you have to choose the right corp with a good LP shop aka 5 run BPCs. i agree
l0rd carlos TURN LEFT The Camel Empire 1219	Posted - 2015.05.27 10:30:10 - [98] - Quote A year ago I was ratting with a carrier in drone lands wiht Level 4(!!!) skills and an ESS: http://i.imgur.com/EDFumnc.png That is 155 ISK/h with a char that does ~2700dps, All V would have been ~3500 dps. Though, to be hornest I did _a lot_ of micromangedment and optimizing. Never half ass something when you can whole ass something. Did the scan res change nerv the income so hard down? Or why does OP say 90mil/h? German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com
Market McSelling Alt Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC 131	Posted - 2015.05.27 12:58:41 - [99] - Quote l0rd carlos wrote: A year ago I was ratting with a carrier in drone lands wiht Level 4(!!!) skills and an ESS: http://i.imgur.com/EDFumnc.png That is 155 ISK/h with a char that does ~2700dps, All V would have been ~3500 dps. Though, to be hornest I did _a lot_ of micromangedment and optimizing. Never half ass something when you can whole ass something. Did the scan res change nerv the income so hard down? Or why does OP say 90mil/h? Edit: What is wrong with that Market McSelling Alt? Absolutely nothing. You were making Incursion size money in a ship that costs 1/4 that of a TVP Vindicator. That is what this thread should be about. Dispelling the myth that you can't make more isk outside of highsec than in it.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 11128	Posted - 2015.05.27 13:06:54 - [100] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: l0rd carlos wrote: A year ago I was ratting with a carrier in drone lands wiht Level 4(!!!) skills and an ESS: http://i.imgur.com/EDFumnc.png That is 155 ISK/h with a char that does ~2700dps, All V would have been ~3500 dps. Though, to be hornest I did _a lot_ of micromangedment and optimizing. Never half ass something when you can whole ass something. Did the scan res change nerv the income so hard down? Or why does OP say 90mil/h? Edit: What is wrong with that Market McSelling Alt? Absolutely nothing. You were making Incursion size money in a ship that costs 1/4 that of a TVP Vindicator. That is what this thread should be about. Dispelling the myth that you can't make more isk outside of highsec than in it. Typical. A ship that also takes a lot longer to train for, and that requires actually being in danger, without either CONCORD or an on call Logistics squad. And you ignore that fact that not everyone is in a 5 bil Vindicator. My TVP "intermediate" lvl Mach costs 2 bil, and my buddy who just returned to the game and has started doing Incursions with TVP is flying a Basilisk. A Basilisk in high sec in microscopically low danger makes as much isk for an individual pilot as a Carrier does at risk in null sec. The fact that it takes an individual player using a CAPITAL SHIP to do what that same player in a cheaper and easier to train for SUB-CAPITAL SHIP (like a Basilisk) can do demonstrates the imbalance that you are choosing to lie about.

Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 11128	Posted - 2015.05.27 13:15:09 - [101] - Quote l0rd carlos wrote: A year ago I was ratting with a carrier in drone lands wiht Level 4(!!!) skills and an ESS: http://i.imgur.com/EDFumnc.png That is 155 ISK/h with a char that does ~2700dps, All V would have been ~3500 dps. Though, to be hornest I did _a lot_ of micromangedment and optimizing. Never half ass something when you can whole ass something. Did the scan res change nerv the income so hard down? Or why does OP say 90mil/h? Edit: What is wrong with that Market McSelling Alt? Not everyone uses a Thanatos, and I think the op tries to stay realistic by low balling all of the isk/hr projections. you notice he says 70-150 mil an hour for high sec incursions. I know for a fact that's low, I do better than that every night I fly with TVP. As for what's wrong wit Market McSelling Alt, this is a good start, the truth of the existence of the combat PVE rewards imbalances EVe online currently suffers from probably challenges some key points of his world view, creating the intensely irrational denials you see in this thread. It's a personal problem.
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1839	Posted - 2015.05.27 14:11:05 - [102] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: And you ignore that fact that not everyone is in a 5 bil Vindicator. My TVP "intermediate" lvl Mach costs 2 bil, and my buddy who just returned to the game and has started doing Incursions with TVP is flying a Basilisk. A Basilisk in high sec in microscopically low danger makes as much isk for an individual pilot as a Carrier does at risk in null sec. The sillyest part about the basi is how so many people won't train for logi so the queu time (at elast when I ran incursion) were usually much lower so you start getting payout faster.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 11128	Posted - 2015.05.27 14:19:50 - [103] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: And you ignore that fact that not everyone is in a 5 bil Vindicator. My TVP "intermediate" lvl Mach costs 2 bil, and my buddy who just returned to the game and has started doing Incursions with TVP is flying a Basilisk. A Basilisk in high sec in microscopically low danger makes as much isk for an individual pilot as a Carrier does at risk in null sec. The sillyest part about the basi is how so many people won't train for logi so the queu time (at elast when I ran incursion) were usually much lower so you start getting payout faster. It's still the same, my buddy hadn't played in 3 years and had only been back for a week when I encouraged him to try Incursions seeing as his alt has Logi 5. We got on the wait list at the same time that night and he was in fleet 17 minutes before I was lol. Of course I was in a Mach, I'm training guns for a Vindicator now :)
Haatakan Reppola Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 16	Posted - 2015.05.27 15:42:25 - [104] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: And you ignore that fact that not everyone is in a 5 bil Vindicator. My TVP "intermediate" lvl Mach costs 2 bil, and my buddy who just returned to the game and has started doing Incursions with TVP is flying a Basilisk. A Basilisk in high sec in microscopically low danger makes as much isk for an individual pilot as a Carrier does at risk in null sec. The sillyest part about the basi is how so many people won't train for logi so the queu time (at elast when I ran incursion) were usually much lower so you start getting payout faster. It's still the same, my buddy hadn't played in 3 years and had only been back for a week when I encouraged him to try Incursions seeing as his alt has Logi 5. We got on the wait list at the same time that night and he was in fleet 17 minutes before I was lol. Of course I was in a Mach, I'm training guns for a Vindicator now :) Logi does not get fleet faster, i completly stopped using my logi pilot since a normal wait is 1-2hours where my mach is in fleet after 30min-1hr! This change depending on what time it is tho, so logi may be better for your timezone
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 624	Posted - 2015.05.27 15:45:11 - [105] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: And you ignore that fact that not everyone is in a 5 bil Vindicator. My TVP "intermediate" lvl Mach costs 2 bil, and my buddy who just returned to the game and has started doing Incursions with TVP is flying a Basilisk. A Basilisk in high sec in microscopically low danger makes as much isk for an individual pilot as a Carrier does at risk in null sec. The sillyest part about the basi is how so many people won't train for logi so the queu time (at elast when I ran incursion) were usually much lower so you start getting payout faster. Train time just for a Basilisk at Logi 5 = 65 days Train time for just T2 guns = 39 days (add another 9 days for Battlship skill level of 4) I left out the shield skills because those should be the same train time for DPS or Logi. Actually, for logi you would have to train the shield remote repper and cap transfers; so kinda adds a little more train time. Bottomline: Logistics takes longer. Caveat: However, if you are training for a carrier, logistics is a no brainer to train for.
Market McSelling Alt Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC 131	Posted - 2015.05.28 00:09:31 - [106] - Quote Haatakan Reppola wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: And you ignore that fact that not everyone is in a 5 bil Vindicator. My TVP "intermediate" lvl Mach costs 2 bil, and my buddy who just returned to the game and has started doing Incursions with TVP is flying a Basilisk. A Basilisk in high sec in microscopically low danger makes as much isk for an individual pilot as a Carrier does at risk in null sec. The sillyest part about the basi is how so many people won't train for logi so the queu time (at elast when I ran incursion) were usually much lower so you start getting payout faster. It's still the same, my buddy hadn't played in 3 years and had only been back for a week when I encouraged him to try Incursions seeing as his alt has Logi 5. We got on the wait list at the same time that night and he was in fleet 17 minutes before I was lol. Of course I was in a Mach, I'm training guns for a Vindicator now :) Logi does not get fleet faster, i completly stopped using my logi pilot since a normal wait is 1-2hours where my mach is in fleet after 30min-1hr! This change depending on what time it is tho, so logi may be better for your timezone Yeah, Jenn completely ignores the fact that logi wait times have been long during most EU/US hours and that a 2bil vindi will get passed up for a 5bil vindi every time in TVP. Also if you fly that 2bil vindi month after month the FCs are going to bust your balls about not going advanced fit. Also, every night this weekend I averaged 120mil hour, fleets were small for some reason and we had nothing but TPPH all night Monday. But let's not ignore facts. PS... nice snip about not everyone flying Thanny's. You are right, some fly Ishtars and a few mil per hour less. Love the Mom's Basement Psychology too.
Haatakan Reppola Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 16	Posted - 2015.05.28 11:01:30 - [107] - Quote Market McSelling Alt wrote: Haatakan Reppola wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: And you ignore that fact that not everyone is in a 5 bil Vindicator. My TVP "intermediate" lvl Mach costs 2 bil, and my buddy who just returned to the game and has started doing Incursions with TVP is flying a Basilisk. A Basilisk in high sec in microscopically low danger makes as much isk for an individual pilot as a Carrier does at risk in null sec. The sillyest part about the basi is how so many people won't train for logi so the queu time (at elast when I ran incursion) were usually much lower so you start getting payout faster. It's still the same, my buddy hadn't played in 3 years and had only been back for a week when I encouraged him to try Incursions seeing as his alt has Logi 5. We got on the wait list at the same time that night and he was in fleet 17 minutes before I was lol. Of course I was in a Mach, I'm training guns for a Vindicator now :) Logi does not get fleet faster, i completly stopped using my logi pilot since a normal wait is 1-2hours where my mach is in fleet after 30min-1hr! This change depending on what time it is tho, so logi may be better for your timezone Yeah, Jenn completely ignores the fact that logi wait times have been long during most EU/US hours and that a 2bil vindi will get passed up for a 5bil vindi every time in TVP. Also if you fly that 2bil vindi month after month the FCs are going to bust your balls about not going advanced fit. Also, every night this weekend I averaged 120mil hour, fleets were small for some reason and we had nothing but TPPH all night Monday. But let's not ignore facts. PS... nice snip about not everyone flying Thanny's. You are right, some fly Ishtars and a few mil per hour less. Love the Mom's Basement Psychology too. 120m/hr is the same as 3.1 site/hr or 19m15s payout-payout using 1000isk/LP
Devasha Detrasha Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 11:17:52 - [108] - Quote [quote=Padegejas]Your information about high sec incursion wealth is not correct based on my personal experience. Your estimation of 70-150 mil per hour would be correct for VG fleet and evaluating pure isk income only. If you'll count LP you'll get at least 25 mil more counting 1200 isk per LP which is rate of wholesale buyers of Concord LP now days (you can get even more if you trade LP yourself and know how to do that). So it generates up to 175 mil/h that way. Good HQ fleet generates about 180 mil./h of pure isk plus 50 mil for the LP, at rate of 1200 isk/lp, so it's about 230 isk/h. Sometimes, when the sites spawn very successfully it's possible to squeeze even more. [/quo Could you please accept my NM into your fleets?
l0rd carlos TURN LEFT The Camel Empire 1219	Posted - 2015.05.28 11:43:18 - [109] - Quote Oh yeha, I read OP again. He wants to know stuff with average skills and not max. Though my Thanatos example was with Carrier IV and only 4 DCUs. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 13	Posted - 2015.05.28 11:43:45 - [110] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Warmonger Simon wrote: Carry mobile depot and refit as needed, 1k dps tank is not needed in 90% of C3 sites. ~600-700 will do most just fine so swapping one drone link aug in a place is always a possibility/losing one of relays for drone damage mod. If you're doing normal anomalies only 740 is max tank you'll need given you don't shoot triggers first. As far as drones go yes correct i placed 2x augumented hammers in there for fitting purposes , sometimes they get targeted but with gilas bonus their ehp is huge and you'll have no problem recalling them in case that's needed. Perfectly well said. I bring a mix of tech 2 hammerheads and Fed navy Hammerheads. The faction drones tank like a sumbitch with gila bonuses , worth a little less paper DPS. Hell, that Gila is a champ in a fight with people too, I escaped like 3 time by popping in warp core stabs and medium neuts (had some help from sleeperss switching aggro too lol) ALWAYS have a Mobil depot deployed and ready. And always have the right stuff in cargo, cloak, probe launcher and probes, cargo expanders, warp core stabs, ammo (duh), scanning modules, Mobil tractor, and i'm sure I'm forgetting something, I'm not in game right now. So you're saying a Friggin Gila can solo C3's and I didn't have to wait that additional 6 months until my Legion was fully trained huh? Not to mention that It's much cheaper (270 mill vs 550 mill) and doesn't lose SP if popped. Yea this thread is making me feel inadequate and very stupid.

Segraina Skyblazer Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2015.05.28 11:49:38 - [111] - Quote Shey Nabali wrote: PowerFromHouwer wrote: Miali Askulf wrote: Mr Omniblivion wrote: It would be greatly appreciated for more lowsec/wh folks to chime in and confirm if those numbers look accurate. L5 mission income is hard to quantify - some are easy and crazy lucrative, a few are going to be very difficult without multiple pilots (which will reduce your isk/character of course) or a very quiet system and a carrier. The LP values are typically horrible compared to the easy ~2k/lp you can get in highsec as well. 250m/hour is possible for sure, but only with lucky mission rolls - quite a lot of the time you won't have something you can easily run solo and if you're using multiple characters, you should take that into account. Indeed, i'm missing the number of characters part. But getting 250 mil an hour with 2 chars in tengu's is quite rare. 200 mil is more plausible In about 3-4 hours(I took breaks here and there and wasn't really tracking it that closely) last night, I made a little over 1.4 million LP with two characters running missions. I used a single faction standing pulling alt to pull missions, and ran them with a thanatos. I cashed out the LP at about 550 isk per LP, so around 800m isk. I was running them pretty slowly, as it was the first time I had run them in months, most people I know would have made closer to 3m LP in the same amount of time. 250/m hour is EASY, and double that is absolutely achievable. EDIT: I don't really count isk/character because I use both pilots regularly for PvP. Hmm, can 2 Armor tanked NM's with link bonuses do LV 5's? What about 2 RR Domis?
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 11131	Posted - 2015.05.28 12:48:35 - [112] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: [quote=Warmonger Simon]Carry mobile depot and refit as needed, 1k dps tank is not needed in 90% of C3 sites. ~600-700 will do most just fine so swapping one drone link aug in a place is always a possibility/losing one of relays for drone damage mod. If you're doing normal anomalies only 740 is max tank you'll need given you don't shoot triggers first. As far as drones go yes correct i placed 2x augumented hammers in there for fitting purposes , sometimes they get targeted but with gilas bonus their ehp is huge and you'll have no problem recalling them in case that's needed. Perfectly well said. I bring a mix of tech 2 hammerheads and Fed navy Hammerheads. The faction drones tank like a sumbitch with gila bonuses , worth a little less paper DPS. Hell, that Gila is a champ in a fight with people too, I escaped like 3 time by popping in warp core stabs and medium neuts (had some help from sleeperss switching aggro too lol) ALWAYS have a Mobil depot deployed and ready. And always have the right stuff in cargo, cloak, probe launcher and probes, cargo expanders, warp core stabs, ammo (duh), scanning modules, Mobil tractor, and i'm sure I'm forgetting something, I'm not in game right now. So you're saying a Friggin Gila can solo C3's and I didn't have to wait that additional 6 months until my Legion was fully trained huh? Not to mention that It's much cheaper (270 mill vs 550 mill) and doesn't lose SP if popped. Yea this thread is making me feel inadequate and very stupid. [/quote[ Don't feel bad, I took watching random youtube vids for me to figure it out lol. Me and a freind dive in to C4s in double Gilas from time to time, but it gets scary lol.
Segraina Skyblazer Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2015.05.28 12:51:37 - [113] - Quote IbanezLaney wrote: In FW at Teir 4 you can do 600-800mil an hour blitzing a combination of Lev 3 & 4 missions. You do missions in FW? I thought it was another form of PVP were you fight against other players who represent either Amarr or Minmatar. Can you give me an explanation on what kind of missions you do in FW along with the drawbacks please?
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 11131	Posted - 2015.05.28 12:52:10 - [114] - Quote Segraina Skyblazer wrote: Shey Nabali wrote: PowerFromHouwer wrote: Miali Askulf wrote: Mr Omniblivion wrote: It would be greatly appreciated for more lowsec/wh folks to chime in and confirm if those numbers look accurate. L5 mission income is hard to quantify - some are easy and crazy lucrative, a few are going to be very difficult without multiple pilots (which will reduce your isk/character of course) or a very quiet system and a carrier. The LP values are typically horrible compared to the easy ~2k/lp you can get in highsec as well. 250m/hour is possible for sure, but only with lucky mission rolls - quite a lot of the time you won't have something you can easily run solo and if you're using multiple characters, you should take that into account. Indeed, i'm missing the number of characters part. But getting 250 mil an hour with 2 chars in tengu's is quite rare. 200 mil is more plausible In about 3-4 hours(I took breaks here and there and wasn't really tracking it that closely) last night, I made a little over 1.4 million LP with two characters running missions. I used a single faction standing pulling alt to pull missions, and ran them with a thanatos. I cashed out the LP at about 550 isk per LP, so around 800m isk. I was running them pretty slowly, as it was the first time I had run them in months, most people I know would have made closer to 3m LP in the same amount of time. 250/m hour is EASY, and double that is absolutely achievable. EDIT: I don't really count isk/character because I use both pilots regularly for PvP. Hmm, can 2 Armor tanked NM's with link bonuses do LV 5's? What about 2 RR Domis? Easily. Just don't forget the "get out of jail free" card (Large Micro Jump Drive) lol. I've done lvl 5 missions with 2 RR Domis giving each other cap, but it's slow.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 11131	Posted - 2015.05.28 12:53:24 - [115] - Quote Segraina Skyblazer wrote: IbanezLaney wrote: In FW at Teir 4 you can do 600-800mil an hour blitzing a combination of Lev 3 & 4 missions. You do missions in FW? I thought it was another form of PVP were you fight against other players who represent either Amarr or Minmatar. Can you give me an explanation on what kind of missions you do in FW along with the drawbacks please? http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=65348&sid=dbc987717bfc91eb8f7f6940e1f60b06 This thread is still relevant though times have changed a bit.
Tao Dolcino Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 352	Posted - 2015.05.28 13:04:49 - [116] - Quote Mr Omniblivion wrote: Lowsec Ratting: Doesn't happen in bulk because of the risk It is perfectly possible to regulary rat in lowsec, i don't see why it'd be so different from nullsec unless you are only talking about friendly nullsec sov, which is not representative of all what null sec has to offer : you can also ninja rat in nullsec, or play in NPC nullsec. Let's be more precise. Against all imperialism
Segraina Skyblazer Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2015.05.28 13:04:53 - [117] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Segraina Skyblazer wrote: IbanezLaney wrote: In FW at Teir 4 you can do 600-800mil an hour blitzing a combination of Lev 3 & 4 missions. You do missions in FW? I thought it was another form of PVP were you fight against other players who represent either Amarr or Minmatar. Can you give me an explanation on what kind of missions you do in FW along with the drawbacks please? http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=65348&sid=dbc987717bfc91eb8f7f6940e1f60b06 This thread is still relevant though times have changed a bit. Thank you Jenn, I have 2 chars I'm training for missles atm and I now know what I'm gonna use them for. I just have to make sure they stay clear of my mains who run high sec missions as their standings (and reputations) are gonna be terrible.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2015.05.28 13:10:18 - [118] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: [quote=Warmonger Simon]Carry mobile depot and refit as needed, 1k dps tank is not needed in 90% of C3 sites. ~600-700 will do most just fine so swapping one drone link aug in a place is always a possibility/losing one of relays for drone damage mod. If you're doing normal anomalies only 740 is max tank you'll need given you don't shoot triggers first. As far as drones go yes correct i placed 2x augumented hammers in there for fitting purposes , sometimes they get targeted but with gilas bonus their ehp is huge and you'll have no problem recalling them in case that's needed. Perfectly well said. I bring a mix of tech 2 hammerheads and Fed navy Hammerheads. The faction drones tank like a sumbitch with gila bonuses , worth a little less paper DPS. Hell, that Gila is a champ in a fight with people too, I escaped like 3 time by popping in warp core stabs and medium neuts (had some help from sleeperss switching aggro too lol) ALWAYS have a Mobil depot deployed and ready. And always have the right stuff in cargo, cloak, probe launcher and probes, cargo expanders, warp core stabs, ammo (duh), scanning modules, Mobil tractor, and i'm sure I'm forgetting something, I'm not in game right now. So you're saying a Friggin Gila can solo C3's and I didn't have to wait that additional 6 months until my Legion was fully trained huh? Not to mention that It's much cheaper (270 mill vs 550 mill) and doesn't lose SP if popped. Yea this thread is making me feel inadequate and very stupid. [/quote[ Don't feel bad, I took watching random youtube vids for me to figure it out lol. Me and a freind dive in to C4s in double Gilas from time to time, but it gets scary lol. well I was preparing to use a Sleipnir and Legion for C3/C4's but wasn't sure if I should daytrip or live in one. Is it better to daytrip at first or just set up a large POS in one?
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 11131	Posted - 2015.05.28 13:24:31 - [119] - Quote Tao Dolcino wrote: Mr Omniblivion wrote: Lowsec Ratting: Doesn't happen in bulk because of the risk It is perfectly possible to regulary rat in lowsec, i don't see why it'd be so different from nullsec unless you are only talking about friendly nullsec sov, which is not representative of all what null sec has to offer : you can also ninja rat in nullsec, or play in NPC nullsec. Let's be more precise. low sec ratting doesn't happen in bulk the way it does in sov null and wormhole space which is what the OP is saying.. "Good" anomalies are rare in low sec, though it is possible to spam them for escalations. And of course, low sec and npc null anoms don't respawn in the same place, so once you clear out a system of anomalies you either have to move on wait and hope for a lucky "natural spawn". And "friendly null sec sov" ratting is the norm, that activity contributes something like 78% of all raw isk bounties in the game. The stuff you are talking about makes no sense.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 11131	Posted - 2015.05.28 13:26:54 - [120] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: [quote=Warmonger Simon]Carry mobile depot and refit as needed, 1k dps tank is not needed in 90% of C3 sites. ~600-700 will do most just fine so swapping one drone link aug in a place is always a possibility/losing one of relays for drone damage mod. If you're doing normal anomalies only 740 is max tank you'll need given you don't shoot triggers first. As far as drones go yes correct i placed 2x augumented hammers in there for fitting purposes , sometimes they get targeted but with gilas bonus their ehp is huge and you'll have no problem recalling them in case that's needed. Perfectly well said. I bring a mix of tech 2 hammerheads and Fed navy Hammerheads. The faction drones tank like a sumbitch with gila bonuses , worth a little less paper DPS. Hell, that Gila is a champ in a fight with people too, I escaped like 3 time by popping in warp core stabs and medium neuts (had some help from sleeperss switching aggro too lol) ALWAYS have a Mobil depot deployed and ready. And always have the right stuff in cargo, cloak, probe launcher and probes, cargo expanders, warp core stabs, ammo (duh), scanning modules, Mobil tractor, and i'm sure I'm forgetting something, I'm not in game right now. So you're saying a Friggin Gila can solo C3's and I didn't have to wait that additional 6 months until my Legion was fully trained huh? Not to mention that It's much cheaper (270 mill vs 550 mill) and doesn't lose SP if popped. Yea this thread is making me feel inadequate and very stupid. [/quote[ Don't feel bad, I took watching random youtube vids for me to figure it out lol. Me and a freind dive in to C4s in double Gilas from time to time, but it gets scary lol. well I was preparing to use a Sleipnir and Legion for C3/C4's but wasn't sure if I should daytrip or live in one. Is it better to daytrip at first or just set up a large POS in one? I day trip. Can't be arsed to plant a pos that will just get reinforced when I ain't looking lol. And this is my favorite video of a solo Gila in a wormhole. I stole his Gila fit lol. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIQWeUfBJIY

Tao Dolcino Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 352	Posted - 2015.05.29 07:01:07 - [121] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: "friendly null sec sov" ratting is the norm Why am i not surprised that it comes from you At least it shows how open minded the nullbear are. Big sovereignty alliances are truely the cancer of EVE. Against all imperialism
Imalia Bloodlines Friendly Empire Corporation 0	Posted - 2015.05.29 07:23:36 - [122] - Quote Quote: Average number of Burner missions were 7.6/h Did you get this with all social skill bonuses or without them? Should I train say, social//connections to V before proceeding?
Jori McKie Viziam Amarr Empire 247	Posted - 2015.05.29 07:57:17 - [123] - Quote Imalia Bloodlines wrote: Quote: Average number of Burner missions were 7.6/h Did you get this with all social skill bonuses or without them? Should I train say, social//connections to V before proceeding? You can start with them at IV no problem but you won't get the numbers i posted with them. The social skills that matters are -Social at V -Security Connections at V get these asap -Negotiations at IV -Connections at IV -Diplomacy at III better at IV Sooner or later you want Connections at V too because it is more convenient and gives you more buffer regarding standings in case you have a bad mission streak. With Connections at IV you have to do more often normal undesired missions. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." --áAbrazzar
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2015.05.29 09:15:06 - [124] - Quote Thanks for the Vid Jenn. So this is the power of passive fit tanks with capless weapons huh, fabulous. I now know why the Rattlers are so popular. I was active shield tanking in my Gilas using 3 DDA's since I don't have missiles skills. Does using the missile launchers keep the agro on your ship and off your drones? And was he using purgers or extenders in the rigs?
Haatakan Reppola Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 16	Posted - 2015.05.29 11:04:49 - [125] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: Thanks for the Vid Jenn. So this is the power of passive fit tanks with capless weapons huh, fabulous. I now know why the Rattlers are so popular. I was active shield tanking in my Gilas using 3 DDA's since I don't have missiles skills. Does using the missile launchers keep the agro on your ship and off your drones? And was he using purgers or extenders in the rigs? 2x T2 Extenders / 1x T2 Thermal (he answered in comments), also he use 12 tanking mods and 1 dmg mod (DDA)


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