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Zappity
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
1816
   |
Posted - 2015.03.07 05:32:32 -
[1] - Quote
It seems there may be some interesting changes on the way. Here is Fozzie's paraphrased answer when asked about cloaky camping:
CCP Fozzie wrote:It's very important that it be possible to disrupt peoples' money-making in nullsec, and AFK cloaking is one of the most effective ways. We're not worried about cloaked ships being overpowered because cloaked ships do very little DPS.
But we understand it has a pretty big psychological effect. We would like to make some changes...it may not be the changes people are expecting, though. For instance, I can tell you that AFK cloaking is not an issue in wormhole space and there are pretty good reasons for that.
When later asked whether this meant that local was being removed from null, Fozzie could "neither confirm nor deny".
Solid gold. No doubt it would solve the problem. But I suspect that a few null dwellers would like to see some sort of compensation for the increased risk that a delayed local (or similar) mechanic would represent.
Source: EVE Down Under #97 @ 1h12m. https://m.soundcloud.com/eve-down-under/eve-down-under-episode-97-060315
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Ren Oren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
79
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 05:40:27 -
[2] - Quote
I say bring on the crazy in null sec, those who can cope will survive, those who can't will see their space fall to the stronger and more vigilant.
Also to all the renters that say eve will die or that null will be empty... please contract your stuff to me |
DaReaper
Net 7
1840
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 05:57:15 -
[3] - Quote
ib4l for roumer mongering.. or redundant
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
20
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 06:01:18 -
[4] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:ib4l for roumer mongering.. or redundant
I broke this story on the eve-o forums this morning and got censored by Ccp Logicbro.
The morning after fanfest the day they announce this change to the cries of nullsecers i shall make a new thread demanding an apology from ccp logic and his lock of my thread.
I learned in journalism 101 that it aint libel if ITS ******* TRUE! |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6359
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 06:05:55 -
[5] - Quote
Zappity wrote:It seems there may be some interesting changes on the way. Here is Fozzie's paraphrased answer when asked about cloaky camping: CCP Fozzie wrote:It's very important that it be possible to disrupt peoples' money-making in nullsec, and AFK cloaking is one of the most effective ways. We're not worried about cloaked ships being overpowered because cloaked ships do very little DPS.
But we understand it has a pretty big psychological effect. We would like to make some changes...it may not be the changes people are expecting, though. For instance, I can tell you that AFK cloaking is not an issue in wormhole space and there are pretty good reasons for that. When later asked whether this meant that local was being removed from null, Fozzie could "neither confirm nor deny". Solid gold. No doubt it would solve the problem. But I suspect that a few null dwellers would like to see some sort of compensation for the increased risk that a delayed local (or similar) mechanic would represent. Source: EVE Down Under #97 @ 1h12m. https://m.soundcloud.com/eve-down-under/eve-down-under-episode-97-060315
There is a kind of split in the direction of the game. It's apparent. But that's an organization for you and frankly it's clear that Eve Online is not driven by marketers. That's a good thing IMO.
It's an old debate though. Which way will it go? Up whose butt will the fist go? Anybody knows....
(I just had a couple of pints)
Anyway, how will cloaky campers be dealt with? I have experienced cloaky campers myself and I love that kind of player who plexes an account just to camp me because the ISK I was able to make exceeded my losses from when they do strike so I can ignore them.
Will cloaky camping be eliminated or will local be gotten rid of?
THAT
is the question.
Some will say getting rid of local will kill nullsec. I'm not 100 percent sure about it, but I suspect it'll be trouble. Thing is, I have been on the receiving end of local whereby hunters enter a system that I have trespassed into and know they have a potential target there from local. Of course, I also know they are there.
It could also be argued that I would not know they are there without local.
So local in nullsec is a double-edged sword. IMO it gives equal efficiency for hunter and hunted, offender and defender alike.
For that reason, and after seeing countless threads about it, I have drawn this conclusion that the scale is equally treated when an offensive move does not have the same intel as a defensive move.
We'll have to see. Worst that can happen is I lose some space pixels. I have still given away more ISK than I have lost.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
20
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 06:13:26 -
[6] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Zappity wrote:It seems there may be some interesting changes on the way. Here is Fozzie's paraphrased answer when asked about cloaky camping: CCP Fozzie wrote:It's very important that it be possible to disrupt peoples' money-making in nullsec, and AFK cloaking is one of the most effective ways. We're not worried about cloaked ships being overpowered because cloaked ships do very little DPS.
But we understand it has a pretty big psychological effect. We would like to make some changes...it may not be the changes people are expecting, though. For instance, I can tell you that AFK cloaking is not an issue in wormhole space and there are pretty good reasons for that. When later asked whether this meant that local was being removed from null, Fozzie could "neither confirm nor deny". Solid gold. No doubt it would solve the problem. But I suspect that a few null dwellers would like to see some sort of compensation for the increased risk that a delayed local (or similar) mechanic would represent. Source: EVE Down Under #97 @ 1h12m. https://m.soundcloud.com/eve-down-under/eve-down-under-episode-97-060315 There is a kind of split in the direction of the game. It's apparent. But that's an organization for you and frankly it's clear that Eve Online is not driven by marketers. That's a good thing IMO. It's an old debate though. Which way will it go? Up whose butt will the fist go? Anybody knows.... (I just had a couple of pints) Anyway, how will cloaky campers be dealt with? I have experienced cloaky campers myself and I love that kind of player who plexes an account just to camp me because the ISK I was able to make exceeded my losses from when they do strike so I can ignore them. Will cloaky camping be eliminated or will local be gotten rid of? THAT is the question. Some will say getting rid of local will kill nullsec. I'm not 100 percent sure about it, but I suspect it'll be trouble. Thing is, I have been on the receiving end of local whereby hunters enter a system that I have trespassed into and know they have a potential target there from local. Of course, I also know they are there. It could also be argued that I would not know they are there without local. So local in nullsec is a double-edged sword. IMO it gives equal efficiency for hunter and hunted, offender and defender alike. For that reason, and after seeing countless threads about it, I have drawn this conclusion that the scale is equally treated when an offensive move does not have the same intel as a defensive move. We'll have to see. Worst that can happen is I lose some space pixels. I have still given away more ISK than I have lost.
Well Wolfe when they remove local from 0.0 like Foozzie basically confirmed similar to POWs blinking morse code, you will lose more like you admit... soooo....
Can you give me some isk so that you cant still say you give away more than you lose? Thanks so much, i will use said isk for nullsec conntent generation also, thanks again, like a few hundred mill will do. Thanks bud. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6359
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 06:16:35 -
[7] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Zappity wrote:It seems there may be some interesting changes on the way. Here is Fozzie's paraphrased answer when asked about cloaky camping: CCP Fozzie wrote:It's very important that it be possible to disrupt peoples' money-making in nullsec, and AFK cloaking is one of the most effective ways. We're not worried about cloaked ships being overpowered because cloaked ships do very little DPS.
But we understand it has a pretty big psychological effect. We would like to make some changes...it may not be the changes people are expecting, though. For instance, I can tell you that AFK cloaking is not an issue in wormhole space and there are pretty good reasons for that. When later asked whether this meant that local was being removed from null, Fozzie could "neither confirm nor deny". Solid gold. No doubt it would solve the problem. But I suspect that a few null dwellers would like to see some sort of compensation for the increased risk that a delayed local (or similar) mechanic would represent. Source: EVE Down Under #97 @ 1h12m. https://m.soundcloud.com/eve-down-under/eve-down-under-episode-97-060315 There is a kind of split in the direction of the game. It's apparent. But that's an organization for you and frankly it's clear that Eve Online is not driven by marketers. That's a good thing IMO. It's an old debate though. Which way will it go? Up whose butt will the fist go? Anybody knows.... (I just had a couple of pints) Anyway, how will cloaky campers be dealt with? I have experienced cloaky campers myself and I love that kind of player who plexes an account just to camp me because the ISK I was able to make exceeded my losses from when they do strike so I can ignore them. Will cloaky camping be eliminated or will local be gotten rid of? THAT is the question. Some will say getting rid of local will kill nullsec. I'm not 100 percent sure about it, but I suspect it'll be trouble. Thing is, I have been on the receiving end of local whereby hunters enter a system that I have trespassed into and know they have a potential target there from local. Of course, I also know they are there. It could also be argued that I would not know they are there without local. So local in nullsec is a double-edged sword. IMO it gives equal efficiency for hunter and hunted, offender and defender alike. For that reason, and after seeing countless threads about it, I have drawn this conclusion that the scale is equally treated when an offensive move does not have the same intel as a defensive move. We'll have to see. Worst that can happen is I lose some space pixels. I have still given away more ISK than I have lost. Well Wolfe when they remove local from 0.0 like Foozzie basically confirmed similar to POWs blinking morse code, you will lose more like you admit... soooo.... Can you give me some isk so that you cant still say you give away more than you lose? Thanks so much, i will use said isk for nullsec conntent generation also, thanks again, like a few hundred mill will do. Thanks bud.
Calm down newbie. Leave the paranoia and dislike of Fozzie up to the more experienced players.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
8307
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 06:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Logibrro wrote:Mongered rumour mongering is gonna rumour monger.
"Can neither confirm nor deny" is not "Yes," and is by default "No" until officially announced. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
1818
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 06:29:32 -
[9] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:ib4l for roumer mongering.. or redundant
Might be redundant although I did look for a thread. But it certainly isn't rumour mongering. Everything in the OP is fact. I drew no conclusions on his comments.
Personally I think a local cloak is the most likely. I doubt local will be removed - it would break too many things.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
238
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Posted - 2015.03.07 06:35:20 -
[10] - Quote
Sounds like they plan on making cloaks remove you from local unless you start chatting it up while cloaked. |
Lucretia DeWinter
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
201
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Posted - 2015.03.07 07:22:46 -
[11] - Quote
Fozzie clearly meant that ships that can fit cloaks can no longer fir cynos. Cloaky campers solved. 
More likely, the new SOV overhaul will see new structures like Communications Beacon that gives you a localised Local channel when deployed - can be attacked to remove intel from your opponents and prevents blanket knowledge of what's in a system allowing smaller organisations to move around more easily and pirates to maintain 'secret' bases.
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Intrepid Crossing
1652
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 07:36:20 -
[12] - Quote
The kicker is: nullsec isn't anywhere close to as lucrative as wh space. It's not an issue in wh space because wh space has enough isk to warrant the tradeoff.
Ppl who can cope will go to wh space, where there's no sov bill and isk is aplenty.
Ppl who can't cope will go to highsec.
Nullsec will be depopulated. Good luck trying to convince people to not moving onto greener pasture (whs). With the logistics nerf, deep null dwellers has to scan whs for logistics anyway. If local is the same, anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together will figure out which is the better choice. Why pay sov bills for the same risks, same logistics, and less isk? |
Varathius
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
164
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 08:05:08 -
[13] - Quote
as soon as nobody can detect my cloaked ship every time I go take a dump or walk my dog, I don't really care what happens. |
Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
287
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 09:49:14 -
[14] - Quote
Remove local from Null? Well that means increased risk, they would have to recalculate and raise Rat Bounties, Hubs, Sanctums etc. I don't see that happening.
......................................................
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
152
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Posted - 2015.03.07 10:07:01 -
[15] - Quote
Nothing new here, Fozzie already said in Vegas last year, that they want to replace local with a more active detection mechanism.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
803
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Posted - 2015.03.07 10:08:57 -
[16] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:The kicker is: nullsec isn't anywhere close to as lucrative as wh space. It's not an issue in wh space because wh space has enough isk to warrant the tradeoff.
And gates. WH space has the benefit that everyone and his uncle doesn't know exactly how to get to particular wormhole systems at any given time of the day, and exactly how long getting there will take, without extensive research or active searching. If I want to go attack a Wormhole corp today, I have to devote considerable hours trying to find a connection to them, with no guarantee (without enlisting lots of friends to help search) that I'll find a route. If I want to attack a nullsec corp today, I just set autopilot to their staging system and follow the yellow gates; I'll be there before downtime.
Now granted, if these player-made gates that keeps being hinted at allows people to permanently shackle wormholes to known space, then the difference between the systems becomes less, and argueably there isn't much arguement to defend taking away nullsecs main defence if WH spaces main defence is gone. But that seems an odd thing to do, since thats turning two unique types of space and gameplay styles in to functionally the same. |
Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
287
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 10:16:02 -
[17] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Nothing new here, Fozzie already said in Vegas last year, that they want to replace local with a more active detection mechanism.
Which means increased risk either way , so he has his work cut out for him.
......................................................
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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
497
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Posted - 2015.03.07 10:24:34 -
[18] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:The kicker is: nullsec isn't anywhere close to as lucrative as wh space. It's not an issue in wh space because wh space has enough isk to warrant the tradeoff. Ppl who can cope will go to wh space, where there's no sov bill and isk is aplenty. Ppl who can't cope will go to highsec. Nullsec will be depopulated. Good luck trying to convince people to not moving onto greener pasture (whs). With the logistics nerf, deep null dwellers has to scan whs for logistics anyway. If local is the same, anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together will figure out which is the better choice. Why pay sov bills for the same risks, same logistics headache, and less isk?
You assume that towers run free ? Or that you don't need TENS of towers to inhabit all the ships in your corp ?
Nope a sov bill in null for a single system is hell a lot cheaper then keeping a C6 in W-space, however on individual player level even the newbs in C6 are rolling in cash though out of necessity since you tend to lose something expensive daily and sometimes even in a row.
If they remove the local then there is significant enough a risk to give incentives for upping the rewards from PvE in null.
Mainly why we in W-space don't give that much an attention to not having a local is because we don't have to worry about having cynos, because unlike cloaked players w-holes can be monitored and scouted and dealt with before the situation explodes on your face.
Most obvious fix for the cloaking issue however would be, just like in other MMO's, an afk-timer that kicks you out after 15mins or so then again in most MMO's you also don't really worry if there is a rogue sneaking about somewhere in the region even on PvP servers.
Fear of losing stuff however is a unique element in EVE, especially in MMO's and down right removal of AFK cloaking by having an AFK timer would definitely remove or dilute that feel of fear and risk from the k-space. |
Nalha Saldana
Shattered Void
Test Alliance Please Ignore
882
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 10:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
Quote:We're not worried about cloaked ships being overpowered because cloaked ships do very little DPS.
Since when was the cloaky ship ever the problem, its the cyno. |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
693
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 10:38:50 -
[20] - Quote
Seriously pissing me off listening to that. How ******* long does it take you to ask "what's CCP doing about cloaking and local?" A full minute apparently.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
694
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 10:43:10 -
[21] - Quote
And the reason people aren't afraid of AFK cloakers in w-space isn't because there's no local, since not knowing if someone is there results in the default assumption being that someone IS there. The reason is simply because you can't jump to cynos in w-space; literally the only way into the system is through a wormhole.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1448
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Posted - 2015.03.07 11:03:40 -
[22] - Quote
It's be proposed multiple times, cloaked ships shouldn't be on Local.
The Tears Must Flow
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Caleb Seremshur
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
506
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Posted - 2015.03.07 11:14:07 -
[23] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:It's be proposed multiple times, cloaked ships shouldn't be on Local.
If that's the case then should cloaked ships be allowed to see people who aren't cloaked in local?
hmmm? Your case use is too powerful unless there is parity on the effect of being removed from local.
Faction warfare pilot and solo/small gang PVP advocate
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Zappity
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
1822
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 11:18:44 -
[24] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:It's be proposed multiple times, cloaked ships shouldn't be on Local.
I can't see it being as simple as this. That would be an enormous buff to people who want to gank site runners. Like me.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
294
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 11:22:21 -
[25] - Quote
The now useless Cyno jammer will become a cloak jammer.
Pure speculation on my part but it would solve the issue. |
Yarda Black
Militaris Industries
Northern Coalition.
578
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 11:22:27 -
[26] - Quote
All you people talk about is AFK cloaking...
What about smacktalk or general social interaction.
No local "empties" space. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
152
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 11:24:13 -
[27] - Quote
Xpaulusx wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Nothing new here, Fozzie already said in Vegas last year, that they want to replace local with a more active detection mechanism. Which means increased risk either way , so he has his work cut out for him.
I'm not a fan of messing with local in k-space as my point is that there has to be at least one element of truth which you can rely on without thinking about condition 1,2 ... 3 and doing x,y,z to be sure. The replacement or alteration has to better be damn good ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Basil Pupkin
Why So Platypus
127
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 11:27:02 -
[28] - Quote
Well, if this goes this way, any null life outside of roaming gangs bumping into each other will be completely eliminated.
Then roaming gangs will go too because there's nothing else but other roaming gangs, if any.
Primary This Rifter wrote:And the reason people aren't afraid of AFK cloakers in w-space isn't because there's no local, since not knowing if someone is there results in the default assumption being that someone IS there. The reason is simply because you can't jump to cynos in w-space; literally the only way into the system is through a wormhole.
QFT.
Though in null it will be A LOT worse than wormholes could possibly have it even without cynos. The reason is the consistency of gates.
In a wormhole, you put a scout on the enemy, but once some time has passed, your entry is lost, and your scout has lost its purpose. In nullsec, we'll see a permascouts in every second system, which will make each and every possible activity, especially industrial, impossible. Every system gaining a rating anywhere would be instantly targeted, and the only people who will gain with this are people who just put a 24/7 scoutbots on each gate in a multiple-deadend constellation and will have intel on every entry and exit within the system. And I don't even blame them, because any other way would be 100% completely and utterly impossible.
You call mining bot-aspirant behavior? It's a joke compared to how powerful scoutbots are going to be.
That, or campbots in every system in the constellation will camp them out, making activity impossible even with scoutbots. Then we will have an empty nullsec where nobody wants to live, because making a single rating go up anywhere is going to make you a helpless target - there is never a way to survive a hotdrop, never a way to survive a gank in a ratting, or especially, a mining ship. The only thing you can do is hide and reship (and since nobody fights when it's not a stomp, they either leave or camp you), because current game design has made every pve-capable vessel completely lacking in every aspect of self-defense - odds are you won't even do 1 damage to a ganker in an average ratting boat, and die before you lock anything in a mining one.
Local is a powerful tool, but afk cloak camping is an order of magnitude more powerful. I say deal with a bigger problem first.
A crap ton equals 1000 crap loads in metric, and roughly 91 shit loads 12 bull shits and 1 puppy's unforeseen disaster in imperial.
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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
1488
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 11:27:12 -
[29] - Quote
Wormholes seem safer from cloakies because that one cloaky can't bring in cynos. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
153
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 11:28:29 -
[30] - Quote
Yarda Black wrote:All you people talk about is AFK cloaking...
What about smacktalk or general social interaction.
No local "empties" space.
Good point, if posting in local becomes a tactical element, those social aspects come to an end. Nobody talks in w-space ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
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