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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15430
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 17:37:14 -
[1] - Quote
afkalt wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Trollceptors fundamentally don't fit the "effective control of the grid" argument. The things that can hit an orbiting snaked-out interceptor are few and far between and require very specific fits to counter, allowing a trollceptor to easily keep a link alive without effective control of the grid. This also forces specific metas, in opposition to the view that they should not affect the meta - you have to be able to blap interceptors in your fleet composition.
They also simply allow you to evade committing anything to a fight, and if you're attacking sov at the very least you should be risking a single ship. A 100m isk, 2k EHP ship with a billion isk pod? I'm sure they'll be ten-a-penny
We toss around supercaps and titans like subcaps. Cost is in no way a barrier.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15432
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:13:32 -
[2] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote: Because they can be countered by a T1 ewar frig that's even cheaper - so long as there's someone awake in local anyways.
edit: Anyone noticed that goons have to blob the forums to try and win their arguments?
you counter an interceptor at one capture node / sov structure and it just shrugs and goes to another one nothing warps faster than an interceptor so enjoy spewing logarithmically increasing numbers of evemannen to bore out a single interceptor I think you mean "Nothing warps faster than an interceptor using an entosis link that can't even start its warp for 2 minutes..." And the fallacy is revealed...because pretty much everything other than a freighter can do that. ah yes the situation where you use PSYCHIC POWERS to determine which system the interceptor plans on hitting before its entosis module cycles and allows it to exit system Thats easily solved it you only own 1 system :) perhaps thats what you will have to do, if goons are incapable of the task to monitor more than one :)
1 system that can at best support 10 ratters hosting 40,000 pilots.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15433
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:20:54 -
[3] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:baltec1 wrote:
1 system that can at best support 10 ratters hosting 40,000 pilots.
I don't see what the other 120,000 of us are going to do if bat country's 40,000 pilots hog the anoms in the one system that we can manage to hold.
Warr taks up 5 systems just on his own...
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15433
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:38:05 -
[4] - Quote
SoulLess Zealot wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote:Will Entosis links do anything to ship velocity?
If they don't, even if you don't allow frigates to fit them, we will troll in orthruses or 10mn AB tactical destroyers. Again another farce as much as troll cepters. .. First off you can be countered with the exact same thing... This goes for any percived doomsday fit . Secondly whats the lock range on a tact destroyer? Ever hear of sentry drones or rapid light missles or medium railguns; point is i hear alot of whinning, and not much to support the case except "it will make my life harder and show people im not as good as i say i am" . Not that im directing my comment soley at the author of the quote just the oppinion of.
These counters only work if said intercepter/frig/destroyer sits still. The second you land these ships will burn away from you and out of your range often before you can even lock them. most of them will be off grid before you even land.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15433
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:58:39 -
[5] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Holy **** you're bad. I could link you a ship that owns interceptors up to 150km, and you'll still moan like a stuck pig. And you know what? I'm gonna do just that. Behold the mighty eagle: Eagle: http://imgur.com/KYZDvc5 Eagle vs. MWD Stiletto: http://imgur.com/v537Sv8 185 DPS at 120km 60 DPS at 150km. Uses thorium if you're wondering (don't be bad by using spike). If, by some miracle, the inty locks at 150km, it's fit is so bad that those 60dps will massacre it. Please. Stop. Being. Bad. ah yes the interceptor that is polite enough to sit inside the eagle's optimal long enough to arrive from 14AU away, decelerate from warp, lock, and fire on it Are you really that bad?Read the graph again. http://imgur.com/v537Sv8 With thorium loaded, against a stiletto moving at speed it does 50 dps at 50km 185 dps at 120km 60 dps at 150km THIS KILLS YOUR 150 KM LOCKING INTERCEPTOR IN AN ENVELOPE FROM 50KM to 150km. WHILE IT'S MOVING. AT 5KM/S.
60 dps isnt going to kill anything. These cepters are not going to sit there and let you pepper them with bb guns, they will eith be out of range when you land our out of range when you lock them.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15434
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:08:14 -
[6] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Holy **** you're bad. I could link you a ship that owns interceptors up to 150km, and you'll still moan like a stuck pig. And you know what? I'm gonna do just that. Behold the mighty eagle: Eagle: http://imgur.com/KYZDvc5 Eagle vs. MWD Stiletto: http://imgur.com/v537Sv8 185 DPS at 120km 60 DPS at 150km. Uses thorium if you're wondering (don't be bad by using spike). If, by some miracle, the inty locks at 150km, it's fit is so bad that those 60dps will massacre it. Please. Stop. Being. Bad. ah yes the interceptor that is polite enough to sit inside the eagle's optimal long enough to arrive from 14AU away, decelerate from warp, lock, and fire on it Are you really that bad?Read the graph again. http://imgur.com/v537Sv8 With thorium loaded, against a stiletto moving at speed it does 50 dps at 50km 185 dps at 120km 60 dps at 150km THIS KILLS YOUR 150 KM LOCKING INTERCEPTOR IN AN ENVELOPE FROM 50KM to 150km. WHILE IT'S MOVING. AT 5KM/S. 60 dps isnt going to kill anything. These cepters are not going to sit there and pepper them with bb guns, they will eith be out of range when you land our out of range when you lock them. Jesus christ. An interceptor fit to lock AT 150 FRICKEN KILOMETERS DOES NOT HAVE A TANK. 60DPS will murder **** kill it, If the inty "only" locks at 90km the eagle will kill it with 170 dps. The Cerberus will kill it with 300-400 RLML dps (90km inty, 137km range missile, do the math). Baltec, even you aren't this dumb.
Your point is only valit if the cepter doesnt move. Fact is that the cepter will see you in warp and by the time you land and lock it it will be either out of range or off the grid entirely. These things arn't going to stick around and let you pepper them.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15436
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:21:12 -
[7] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Eli Apol wrote: I'm using the maximum for effect - we can do 27minutes instead and still have a 29:12 ratio of time wasted by the trollceptor pilot versus the defender. Point still stands.
edit: And just done with replying to the ship-toaster not the thread in general :)
so yes, we remain in a bore-off but without the thin advantage of a massive inbalance in favor of the defender, merely a moderate one what fun The only real disadvantage is being inflicted on sov holders with more systems than they can cover... everybody else is just fine., thanks.
Having battles over sov consisting of nothing but trollcepters and their ineffective counters is not a healthy game or what CCP wants.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15436
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:26:35 -
[8] - Quote
Acuma wrote:Seems mostly that only the goonies are afraid of trollceptors.......even with their "superior numbers" and their "we'll burn null sec to the ground if this is allowed." Wonder why that is? Too much space? To many renters? Afraid of spread out fights instead of blobs? All it takes is a tanked out maller alt sitting on a structure......ya'll don't have alts?
So were you also one of the people that defended tech moons when we said they were a terrible idea?
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15438
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:50:55 -
[9] - Quote
Acuma wrote:baltec1 wrote:Acuma wrote:Seems mostly that only the goonies are afraid of trollceptors.......even with their "superior numbers" and their "we'll burn null sec to the ground if this is allowed." Wonder why that is? Too much space? To many renters? Afraid of spread out fights instead of blobs? All it takes is a tanked out maller alt sitting on a structure......ya'll don't have alts? So were you also one of the people that defended tech moons when we said they were a terrible idea? So you like arguing with strawmen?
Looks to me like the only rean most are supporting trollcepters is because goons are against them.
Fact is that trollcepters will be the single most annoying thing to ever happen to sov space even more so than the POS grind we first had. Not only will you have to contend with the biggest abusers of game mechanics in EVE but also everyone else in null, all the lowsec corps, WH powers and a good number of highsec to boot. There is going to be thousands of the ******* things everywhere and thats before we get into the waking nightmare that would be the CFC on a war footing.
Trollcepters dont get people fights, they only serve to sap the life from the game. Very few systems will even have 20 min timers let alone 40. For the love of god do not allow us such a tool because we will abuse it and make life for everyone else miserable.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15445
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Posted - 2015.03.09 23:26:32 -
[10] - Quote
Acuma wrote:baltec1 wrote:Acuma wrote:baltec1 wrote:Acuma wrote:Seems mostly that only the goonies are afraid of trollceptors.......even with their "superior numbers" and their "we'll burn null sec to the ground if this is allowed." Wonder why that is? Too much space? To many renters? Afraid of spread out fights instead of blobs? All it takes is a tanked out maller alt sitting on a structure......ya'll don't have alts? So were you also one of the people that defended tech moons when we said they were a terrible idea? So you like arguing with strawmen? Looks to me like the only rean most are supporting trollcepters is because goons are against them. Fact is that trollcepters will be the single most annoying thing to ever happen to sov space even more so than the POS grind we first had. Not only will you have to contend with the biggest abusers of game mechanics in EVE but also everyone else in null, all the lowsec corps, WH powers and a good number of highsec to boot. There is going to be thousands of the ******* things everywhere and thats before we get into the waking nightmare that would be the CFC on a war footing. Trollcepters dont get people fights, they only serve to sap the life from the game. Very few systems will even have 20 min timers let alone 40. For the love of god do not allow us such a tool because we will abuse it and make life for everyone else miserable. Sounds to me like you'll have to only be in space you can defend during your primetime.....and your timer speculation is just that, speculation. Even at the lowest timer, it will waste 10 minutes of your time for 3-4 of the defender.....in an UNUSED system lol. Sounds like you plan on being bored out your mind instead of bringing a force to actually trigger the RF.
If you had paid attention at any point in the last 5 years you would know that we cannot get bored. You should also take the time tolook up the state of most sov out there as the vast bulk is a lot emptier than ours. 10 minutes give you next to no time to respond. Six months of having to deal with nothing but cepters that you cannot kill will drain the willpower of everyone but the largest organisations. Are you going to attend 4 hour long defence ops that get you nothing? How about year after year of nothing but uncatchable cepters?
Its a terrible thing that needs to die before it ever gets started.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15445
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Posted - 2015.03.09 23:36:30 -
[11] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:also fyi the timer can only be 40 minutes if the system has an industrial index of 5
there are no regions in the game with an average industrial index above one eidence That is the choice of the holders. Skewed focus can yield sub-optimum conditions.
Some systems literally cannot gain military index V and next to no system have any mining index due to it simply not being worth mining. Most systems also dont have great industry because they either dont have an outpost or they dont have any need for that much industry in a back end system.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15445
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Posted - 2015.03.09 23:44:55 -
[12] - Quote
Tycho VI wrote:What if it was made so that when using the Entosis, your ship can not move at all?
Blap dreads.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15445
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Posted - 2015.03.10 00:07:07 -
[13] - Quote
Acuma wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Acuma wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:its shockingly funny to watch all of you running around worrying about frigates.
it clearly shows how incapable you are of understanding the very simple layout of these sov mechanics. But frigates are indestructible! What can you do against them? /sarcasm off Aha, so it's actually going to return to an isk-on-field methodology. Numerous counters exist,. If the almighty goons are afraid of a few trollceptors......you have concerns about being able to defend your renters. Boo frickin hoo. I wonder how all the FW folks deal with the ALMIGHTY ceptor.
I have yet to see one that would kill said trollcepter. To date they all require the cepter to be either be AFK or sitting still.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15448
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Posted - 2015.03.10 04:28:14 -
[14] - Quote
People seem to be making the same wrong assumption over and over in this thread. When we say trollcepters can disengage at will we do not mean they warp off. Intercepters are fast enough to be able pull range on any sniper boat you care to bring ofter before it can even land out of warp. Said cepter can then burn off grid and simply vanish from the snipers overview. By the time you probe it down and warp to it it will be out of range again. This is why nobody ever bothers to probe these things down today.
Breaking through a gatecamp is not why dislike trollcepters as there is a large number of ships that can do that. Anything with a cov ops cloak can do that easily enough and most small gangs will fight their way in. What we hate is the idea of day after day of having to deal with cepters you likely cant catch for 4 hours.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15455
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Posted - 2015.03.10 18:36:32 -
[15] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:Eli Apol wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote: Let's hear your argument regarding this change. Scroll up. I did, and all I really found was ad hominem after strawman after cherry-picking after insult. Nice and vague and an absolutely non-commital ad-hominem of your own. Make an actual attempt at engaging with the content of the past 50 pages and try to tackle the points raised instead of trying to make this emotive based upon a prior disagreement in a completely unrelated thread. Or just be a snark, either is absolutely fine by me in an anonymous internet forum about spaceships but only one of them actually has a chance of persuading people of how valid your input is for the discussion at hand.
I rubbished every one of your counters and you are still not understanding why these ships would be so bad for the game. So far you only come across as all for cepters because grr goons
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15456
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Posted - 2015.03.10 18:53:02 -
[16] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:baltec1 wrote:I rubbished every one of your counters and you are still not understanding why these ships would be so bad for the game. So far you only come across as all for cepters because grr goons I honestly don't care for any sov group of any size. The fact that goons have been pushing an obvious agenda is the only reason I might appear to be 'grrr goons' They've honestly NEVER had any affect on my online experience except very tedious local spam when I've been in the same systems as them so I'm not sure why I'd be grrr goons except on your say so. My motive is just discussing the mechanics and pointing out they're not as flawed as you insist. A few pages back I suggested that IF the harbingers of doom were correct then make it a midslot module or add a targetting range nerf to it. Then people started with the whole 'but you're just a salvager' shtick which got really tired the first time around, it's nearly as monotonous as the whole 'just where on the doll....' but anyway. I digress. grrrr goons just say "No! Ban ceptors, they're OP because of an article published by our in-house blog!" So yeah if you think the counters don't work, from grid fu to sniping HACs to boosted ceptors to tac dessies with oversized propmods... then just a simple slight tweak of the module stats can completely negate this terrifying tactic WITHOUT removing nullified ships from the potential threats to vacant sov.
There are only two ways to go about this. Remove destroyers and frigates from being able to fit this mod
Reduce to range of said sov laser down to no more than 50km.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15459
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Posted - 2015.03.11 12:01:57 -
[17] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:Aralyn Cormallen wrote:When was the ship class called Escapers? Or Avoiders? They are Interceptors, their reason to be is to Intercept. And they do that well, their bubble-immunity allows them to crash through attempts to delay a pursuit and intercept a fleeing foe. Unfortunatly, they are too good at it, and instead became the fleeing foe. If they could be delayed by bubbles and/or unable to instawarp, they wouldn't be that good at Intercepting stuff a few jumps away, would they? But hey - glad to see the issue remains that Interceptors can avoid bubblecamps, not their speed or lock range or any of that other stuff. Quote:Since when is actively defending your sov not supposed to be enough? I'm sorry that gate camps have instilled ptsd in you related to bubbles, but they are a feature of nullsec. The very essence of nullsec should be setting up a defence, controlling the terrain to help the defenders repel invaders, and I'm sorry, but that means lone vandals might have to lose a ship every once in a while. Aww. Castles have walls, they do not require soldiers stationed on the roof of every hut. We let you through the walls, and you run amok, we deserve to be scampering to put out the fires. But we man the walls with a solid defence, why shouldn't you have to make the slightest effort to actually breach that defence? And seriously, how big an effort do you really need to exert? Just, nut up, bust the camp and get your guys in; you don't even need to get a whole fleet in, just send a suicide team to engage the camp while you get a cyno frig in and blops or bridge as many entosis-ships as you like in to the interior. Yes, you should be able to actively defend your space. And you absolutely can with the new mechanic, just like in the current sov system. Even against the invincible unkillable uncounterable Trollceptor. The fact that "actively defending your space" means being active defending your space in more places than just chokepoints doesn't change that fact. Look, bubble the hell out of the chokepoints. It's a great idea, works well, and keeps about 90%+ of the solo threats out. It puts a nice high bar for folks to clear if they want to bring bigger ships. What it should NOT do is give you total immunity. Having Sovlazors on Trollceptors is a very simple way of ensuring you won't be.
So what exactly do you find fun about having to deal with attacks on your sov from ships you cant catch for 4 hours every day of every year? Zero fights, zero kills and no fun to be had at all.
THIS is what is so bad about the trollcepter, it means wars in the future will be mostly nothing but uncatchable interceptors sapping the willpower of the enemy for months on end. Defenders should actively fight to keep their space but the same needs to apply to the attackers too.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15463
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Posted - 2015.03.11 17:34:50 -
[18] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:baltec1 wrote:So what exactly do you find fun about having to deal with attacks on your sov from ships you cant catch for 4 hours every day of every year? Zero fights, zero kills and no fun to be had at all.
THIS is what is so bad about the trollcepter, it means wars in the future will be mostly nothing but uncatchable interceptors sapping the willpower of the enemy for months on end. Defenders should actively fight to keep their space but the same needs to apply to the attackers too. I have every confidence in my ability to catch and kill Interceptors with no tank and meager DPS who are unable to warp off grid for 2-5 minutes at a time. Especially on my home turf, where I can bring links and use Snakes far more easily than they can. I understand that a culture where solo / small gang PvP is looked down upon and folks don't bother to log in and play the game unless there's a rage ping to sit on a titan and gank some poor idiot on the other side of the map might not breed the kind of pilots that can handle that kind of challenge, but that's a cultural failing on your part that CCP shouldn't cater to with easy mechanics. In addition, FW is essentially all about defending your sov - or attacking sov - that's vulnerable 23/7 from these kinds of threats. You all will have it far easier than we do - limited window of vulnerability, no need for the defender to work 2x as hard to undo the work of an attacker, no deadspace to worry about, etc etc etc - especially since the attacker can't disengage at will due to the Entosis Link preventing him from warping off. Look, I know you want to build a really high wall to keep all the rampaging hordes out, and thereby avoid having to be active in your space all over rather than just at a few strategic systems. Since that's directly counter to CCP's goal with these sov changes, and since Interceptors are pretty much the only reliable way to ensure you can't pull that kind of tactic off with ease, I think it's fair to say that we can expect Interceptors to be able to use Entosis Links, even (and perhaps especially) the T2 versions. It would probably be a lot more productive if folks started talking about what kind of limiting factors - cap use, fitting requirements, etc - that would force said Interceptors to make "interesting choices" to use them. While, of course, keeping in mind they still need to be able to be used on T1 frigates like Atrons.
Everything you said is rubbish.
I want small gangs not an endless swarm of cepters that you will not catch with any sniper that a defender would be forced to waste 4 hours of their playtime chasing around. Its not fun, it wont generate fights and it will make sov even worse than it is today. The defender has no advantage at all in this situation and after a few months of this you will see a mass burnout. Its a ****** tactic that cannot be allowed to happen.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15465
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Posted - 2015.03.11 18:12:19 -
[19] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote: Your ignorance and nullbear blinders are showing.
Your utter lack of sov war experience is more telling.
Veskrashen wrote: If you can't handle solo Interceptors with no tank who can't disengage at will, you're completely blind to the advantages you have as a defender.
How much fun are you going to have with chasing shadows for years with no reward? You keep on making the assumption the only way to avoid people is by warping, intercepters don't need to warp to avoid getting shot at, they just outrun everything.
Veskrashen wrote: Try talking to folks who actually have to deal with similar mechanics today - i.e. FW pilots - and you'll get a bazillion ideas on how to leverage the defensive advantages you have.
This is nothing like FW and the groups that take part in sov wars are nothing like those in FW.
Veskrashen wrote: I really really hope that CCP continues to allow Entosis Links on Interceptors. It will result in the biggest buckets of nullbear tears since Pheobe.
This is why people with zero experience with sov warfare should not be in this thread.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15465
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Posted - 2015.03.11 18:15:25 -
[20] - Quote
Philip Ogtaulmolfi wrote:Princess Cherista wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Anyone that can be assed to defend their space will succeed. WELL DONE, FULL MARKS SHERLOCK. But who wants to chase interceptors around for 4 hours a night or whatever the primetime is for no fight and no kills. Do you?? You dont. You do whatever you are doing and when the ceptor appears, you let it work for 38 minutes with it's link and then you log a character in the system, an alt, call a mate that is doing industry or go back to your home system, break the lock of the ceptor and go back to your business. If he is particularly dedicated he can do this 6 times in the window and your alliance will nedd around 12 minutes/man to negate him. Who will get bored before?
Most systems wont even take 20 min to knock over.
Also the fact that the only answer you have involves no fights and no kills shows just how horrible it will be countering swarms of these things for 4 hours a day every day for year after year.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15465
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Posted - 2015.03.11 18:46:51 -
[21] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote: Experience grinding masses of EHP has no relevance in Fozziesov, experience with timer based capture mechanics does. The current way of doing things is going to be completely undone in June, barring something extraordinary. And, just in case you're confused, FW is the Occupancy Sov basis that this current Fozziesov has grown from.
[/quote]
Fun fact, most wars we have fought were won before we grinded out most of the structures. Killing structures is soul destroying but at least there is a KM in the end.
Veskrashen wrote: False. Interceptors without links / implants won't outrun Interceptors with them, much less faster ships like oversized props and the like. Not to mention the fact that there's several counters that don't require me to be anywhere near catching it - within 60-100km or so is more than sufficient. Again, your lack of knowledge of combat outside of Megathrons is showing.
What makes you think the attackers wont be bringing their own implants and boosters? Also, by the time you warp to an interceptor it will be out of range of your 100km range ship, by the time you lock it it will be out of range of your 150km sniper. You don't catch interceptors with sniperboats.
Veskrashen wrote: Also, it would be easy for a rich coalition - like yours - to offer bounties on killmails during your Prime Time in your space where the victim has an Entosis Link fitted. Since CCP isn't going to incentivize you with isk to do the job, perhaps it's time for Gewns vaunted logisitcal organization to jump in and fix that problem on their own. You know, those player solutions to problems that CCP Fozzie mentioned.
Bounties that will rarely if ever get paid out because you wont be getting KM.
Veskrashen wrote: You're right. FW corps have no issue fighting for their space day in and day out. Nullbears who have grown lazy behind shields of bubblewalls and supercaps on the other hand...
When was the last time you got rapecaged for a week in FW and then lost a few trillion in assets?
Veskrashen wrote: Your tears are going to be so delicious.
And here we see another example of a misuse of that phrase. It is not tears to point out a fundamental flaw in a new sov system that people would abuse.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15465
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Posted - 2015.03.11 18:48:39 -
[22] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote: Nullified Interceptors aren't breaking the game now,
We arn't talking about now, we a talking about when the new sov lands.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15465
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Posted - 2015.03.11 19:03:08 -
[23] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:
And this one's a case of "lol didn't read." Please tell me, how does a ceptor "moonwalk out" if it can't warp away and faster ships can run it down?
They don't run down cepters now and wont in the future. Every single one of your plans revolvs around the assumption the cepter is joust going to let you warp to 0 on it, not more or not run when something shows up.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15465
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Posted - 2015.03.11 19:06:10 -
[24] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote: A max speed garmur or dramiel is faster than any ceptor under equivalent conditions. Fact.
It has a 110km head start, it starts burning the second it sees you on its D-scan, it will be 200km away at the very least when you meet it. No, you won't catch it.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15465
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Posted - 2015.03.11 19:17:35 -
[25] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote: Show me how fast this 110km locking interceptor goes with all of it's rigs dedicated to lock range.
Grasping at straws baltec, grasping at straws. It's quite hilarious, actually.
Telling you how it is. All of your plans require the cepter to either not be moving or be AFK. Neither of these will happen. Get off EFT and get some in game experience wih chasing down interceptors before you try to say these things and you wont be getting caught out every time.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15465
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Posted - 2015.03.11 21:36:02 -
[26] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:The TMC guest sov expert xttz contradicted himself within 2 posts, the CFC's fitting expert baltec got wrecked in a discussion about how trollceptors are going to outrun ships that are doing twice the speed of them...
Seems experience matters little in this discussion.
Yea, no such thing happened.
Want wrecked?
Just wait till we start injecting 10 man gangs of t3 destroyers fitted to avoid anything that can kill them but able to kill anything that can almost catch them.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15465
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Posted - 2015.03.11 21:52:50 -
[27] - Quote
Zappity wrote:baltec1 wrote: This is why people with zero experience with sov warfare should not be in this thread.
This is wrong. The fact that you do not find the current, broken sov system interesting and worth getting invested in should not exclude you from commenting on the new system, which will hopefully repair some of that brokenness. Otherwise the only feedback will be from people who find the current system acceptable.
When have we ever said we find the current situation acceptable?
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15465
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Posted - 2015.03.11 21:58:32 -
[28] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote: But trollceptors are still uncatchable right? You left me hanging on that one.
Flown right then yea, they will escape more than you can kill them. The point however, that you keep on missing, is that sov battles will become nothing but swarms of intercepters and other small fast ships build to avoid rather than fight. The end result being an even more boring sov system than tower bashing.
Eli Apol wrote: edit: Nice of you to catch up on the T3 dessie meta by the way - fortunately these can be bubbled as you'll be glad to hear.
What makes you think they are going to be getting in via gates?
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15465
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Posted - 2015.03.11 22:17:46 -
[29] - Quote
Kristian Hackett wrote:baltec1 wrote:What makes you think they are going to be getting in via gates? Oh, so you're going to bridge them in? Yea sure go ahead, light that cyno! Might as well send the defenders an email stating your intent to attack ahead of time. But let's not get away from the issue at hand here, which is the Entosis Link fitted to specific ships...
Wormholes. We use them more than titans these days.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15465
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Posted - 2015.03.11 22:19:11 -
[30] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:baltec1 wrote:Eli Apol wrote: But trollceptors are still uncatchable right? You left me hanging on that one.
Flown right then yea Wrong. Even flown right they can be chased down and ruined by a 10km/s T3 dessie (much more with links and implants). edit: With LUCK they might get away if they have less than half of their entosis module cycle time remaining and are flown right. 2nd edit: Also remember that the defending team could quite feasibly start a stopwatch when the initial ping comes through and time their attack 2m01 afterwards = definitely dead ceptors. baltec1 wrote:What makes you think they are going to be getting in via gates? They can be bubbled when you try and trololol to the next system then. Or are you actually going to have a fight in that system? Does the proposed mechanic work in making you fight for grid dominance in your T3 dessie uberfit (which I'm sure there will be counters for as well)?
Way to ignore yet again the entire point of the trollcepter and why its terrible.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15471
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Posted - 2015.03.12 11:26:23 -
[31] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Why not make the Entosis link like polarized weapons? Simply equipping it drops all your resistances to 0.
Makes defending way too easy in every situation where the attackers decide to fight.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15472
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Posted - 2015.03.12 18:37:02 -
[32] - Quote
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:So basically only unoccupied systems will be easy prey for these interceptors of doom. I'm ok with this. It strangely sounds like it is working as intended. Regardless, CCP said that if something gets out of hand they will make some adjustments.
They aren't there to take space, their job is to harass the enemy into defending their sov every day while not engaging them in any fights. If they do take space then that's just an added bonus. The entire point of them is to sap the moral of the defenders over the span of months.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15477
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Posted - 2015.03.13 03:32:59 -
[33] - Quote
Lena Lazair wrote:Falin Whalen wrote:I like how you think we will be going to your home system. Youre so cute. No we will be running around where you are not and you have to play wack-a-mole till you get fed up not catching any of us, and having to go on CTA button orbiting ops every day after till the servers go dark, or you quit and go to highsec. I think you will quit before we do. For you. Why would we have more than one or two systems to harass, unless we actually had pilots in each of those systems to defend them? This idea that small alliances, or ANYone, will be able to hold dozens of systems at an average density of 0 to 2 people per system is pretty much a non-starter in Fozziesov. So yeah, if you want to harass my sov, you'll be coming to my one or two home systems. I don't really care how the large blocs manage to sort out their defensive problems :)
You have two members, you aren't holding anything. Using cepters we can take your space with zero risk of losses.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15479
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Posted - 2015.03.13 04:31:09 -
[34] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:baltec1 wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Why not make the Entosis link like polarized weapons? Simply equipping it drops all your resistances to 0. Makes defending way too easy in every situation where the attackers decide to fight. If you own the grid, what difference does it make what your resists are. It would prevent ninja efforts more than anything, also trollceptor wrecks would litter the grid
It would mean anything that fires up it sovlaser would instantly die in a fight while the likes of the trollceper would not be impacted as it avoids fights. You would push everyone even more towards capturing sov using ships built for avoiding fights.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15490
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Posted - 2015.03.13 17:36:30 -
[35] - Quote
Kristian Hackett wrote:All of the current discussion from the past 5 pages is why I feel that Cruiser-class ships and below should only be able to fit the short range, long time T1 module. The long range, short time T2 should only be available to BC-class ships and above. No trollceptor issues, no T3s running about being a thorn in everybody's backsides, and it will encourage a lot of variations in fleet sizes and tactics.
Cruisers as far as I can see would be fine under the current iteration of fozziesov. The issue is only with very fast frigate and destroyer hulls that are built to evade rather than fight.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2015.03.13 17:50:12 -
[36] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Maybe instead of multiple versions of the module, it just needs some scripts. Long range, short range, with corresponding advantages and disadvantages to cycle time, etc.
I like the idea of upping the t1 to 50km and blocking the use of the t2 mod from frigates and destroyers. Its the least complicated answer to the problems.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15493
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Posted - 2015.03.15 05:42:04 -
[37] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:What I am saying is that at fanfest there will be a couple of round tables for sov ( see the schedule) as well as presentations. There will be a chance for talking TO the devs and for them to present the plans for the future. Sure. If you had the disposable income to throw at flying to Iceland at the same time that an eclipse spiked all the air fares and hotel prices. If not, SOL, right?
Or book six month before everyone noticed.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15493
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Posted - 2015.03.15 05:45:53 -
[38] - Quote
Kristian Hackett wrote:Alp Khan wrote:Kristian Hackett wrote: You have a 10 minute cycle time and a 20km range to structure. So, how is an interceptor that's locked to the grid for a significant amount of time just to begin the capture progress going to be a threat? Oh no, the troll burned your gate camp. You have enough time to respond to the structure under attack with a freaking carrier if you want.
Because disabling the warp engines does not automatically equate to being locked to grid in a trollceptor. You can still burn away from the sov structure and the grid, easily outrunning any opponent with your superior speed and agility and after a certain distance, you will have broken off from the grid and will be in your own safe, seperate grid. This will make the trollceptor look like it suddenly disappeared to everybody on the sov structure's grid, even before the completion of the entosis link cycle. Until that cycle completes, trollceptor continues to burn at max speed with MWD on, and then warps away as normal to any point it chooses to. This practice is also known as grid-fu or grid manipulation. By following the above, trollceptor, which is already a very cheap ship even with an entosis link fitted, will have avoided anything landing on sov structure grid and completely manage to avoid any risk. You also should remember that the trollceptor is immune to any gatecamp, as it aligns under two seconds and cannot be locked on a gate. Finally, I assume that you are aware of the fact that all interceptors are immune to bubbles. You are welcome. Again - the interceptor has to SIT ON GRID WITHIN 20KM OF THE STRUCTURE FOR ONE FULL 10 MINUTE CYCLE BEFORE THE STRUCTURE EVEN BEGINS TO BE CONTESTED. That means you have 10 minutes to chase the bastard off before your structure becomes vulnerable. Stop dinking the trollceptor T2 sov laser kool-aid and listen to what I'm saying. No T2 modules on ships Cruiser-class and smaller. If the trollceptor can't fit a T2 module then there should be no issue countering the fit. If you're that worried about interceptors then it means that you own too much space to reasonably defend. So in this scenario if I know that the troll is going after my IHUB, all I have to do is park a Talos on there with the T2 sov laser and I just countered any attempt at a T1 sov laser contest.
And how much fun are you going to have guarding that thing for 4 hours a day, every day while the trollcepters and t3 destryoyers buzz around?
People want fights not stag duty in space.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2015.03.15 17:35:34 -
[39] - Quote
Kristian Hackett wrote: You talk of a "trollceptor gang" like people are going to be roaming in packs, instead of the single ship tactic that's being discussed.
We have been telling you we will deploy these things by the hundreds to thousands in small gangs.
Kristian Hackett wrote: If you have a whole gang of enemy trollceptors rolling in, that's not a troll attempt
Wrong. Their objective is not to take space, its to harass the enemy for months on end until they give up. They never engage, they just force the enemy to always have to chase after them. It fits into our tactic for making the lives of our enemies a living hell much in the same way we currently do by reinforcing everything in a region then not showing up to contest the timers.
Kristian Hackett wrote: It has been said before in this thread that there are ways to counter the Interceptors
Every single one of those counters relys upon the interceptor trying to take the target, that's not the goal and thus the tactics and specialised ships don't work.
Kristian Hackett wrote: , but all you guys want to do is whine and complain about how hard it's going to be and how much space you're going to lose and how the evil trolls are going to troll you then run off laughing.
We are telling CCP to not gift us a tactic that we would abuse massively, we want CCP to pre nerf us.
Kristian Hackett wrote: This system is meant to disrupt the status quo, and do it in a big way.
And it will, it just doesn't need trollcepters and t3 destroyers to do it.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15499
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Posted - 2015.03.16 12:05:05 -
[40] - Quote
davet517 wrote:baltec1 wrote: We have been telling you we will deploy these things by the hundreds to thousands in small gangs.
Against whom? This isn't high-sec ganking. There isn't anyone out there that you can do this to who can't do it back. And then there are all those (NPC and low-sec entities) for whom you are a target, while they are not. I don't really think you're complaining about this because you want CCP to save Eve from you.
We can deploy 7 fleets, have supers on standby, have a home defence force, highsec arm, WH group and a smattering of smaller groups doing their own thing.
We will be fine, this tool is nightmare for everyone else as it fits perfectly in with the way we currently fight our wars. The problem people such as yourself have here is that you have never fought a war in sov null. You have no idea just how horrible a war with us can be. We are trying to make sov mk 3 goonproof.
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