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Shirley Koch
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Posted - 2006.10.15 00:06:00 -
[1]
well how it comes that ingame prices explode? a vaga hits nearby 300 mills now!!! gtc became 100mills more xpsv than 2 months ago is there really so much isk ingame that this price explosion hapens? i mean still make same ammoun of isk when playing as a year ago.
is there a way to reduce to prices back to normal regions?
i mean if this goes straight forward we pay in 2 months 50 mills for a tier 3 cruisa
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zeKzn
Empire of Destiny
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Posted - 2006.10.15 00:10:00 -
[2]
just because a few items go up hugely in price, or even one entire sector of a market, doesn't mean prices are exploding.
resident economics expert |
Sergio Ling
Standard Operations Building Services
Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.15 00:15:00 -
[3]
Ctrl+Q resets prices
 Originally by: Jacob Majestic
Umm, why don't you just use the correct dread?
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Ice Conch
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2006.10.15 00:36:00 -
[4]
supply and demand
This is Samirol's alt. |
Andargor theWise
Disbelievers of Fate
The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2006.10.15 00:38:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ice Conch
supply and demand
Well, supply and demand dictated by mechanics in a game world. 
Not everything is pure macro/microeconomics in eve.
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Got grief?
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JINX HSC
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.15 00:43:00 -
[6]
Game time cards are ******* up all eve.. GTC for isk will be the death of eve if not lag will kill it first...
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KLADDKAKA
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Trig read the rulez m8!!! |
Lord Frost
Minmatar
The Crystal Method
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Posted - 2006.10.15 01:22:00 -
[7]
Originally by: JINX HSC
Game time cards are ******* up all eve.. GTC for isk will be the death of eve if not lag will kill it first...
I agree.
Also, when it comes down to it, people are so used to Jita, they forget there are other regions. Jita is a *****... and it is remarkably EASY for rich people/corps/alliances to manipulate prices. Lets not forget, Eve hasn't grown, the player base has... and resources are less because of that. CCP needs to make more belts or have them grow faster. We have no unions in here... the market is flawned in its existance. And on another note, escrow needs to only be used to put up items for specific people or corps. Too many people taking the tax free road. Expand the market items... and change regional market views to a radius of 20 jump views.
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Quin Tal
Fort Knox Inc
Expeto Libertas Foedus
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Posted - 2006.10.15 01:23:00 -
[8]
Inflation my friend, all part of the game :) Makes it fun!
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zeKzn
Empire of Destiny
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Posted - 2006.10.15 01:27:00 -
[9]
Edited by: zeKzn on 15/10/2006 01:28:36
Edited by: zeKzn on 15/10/2006 01:28:07
Edited by: zeKzn on 15/10/2006 01:27:44
Originally by: Andargor theWise
Well, supply and demand dictated by mechanics in a game world. Laughing
Not everything is pure macro/microeconomics in eve.
While this is true, the differences do not affect supply and demand to an extent large enough to matter. Supply and Demand rules will apply any time there is a good being produced and sold for a price to those who demand it.
Originally by: JINX HSC
Game time cards are ******* up all eve.. GTC for isk will be the death of eve if not lag will kill it first...
This is idiotic. GTCs dont:
- Increase the money supply
- Unbalance the game
GTCs do equate to an exchange rate between ISK and "real world" currencies
Whilst they may contribute to inflation because people who sell GTCs are then able to spend more on the same items, this doesn't matter. What you are saying is like the US saying it would no longer exchange dollars for any other currency, because it will "be the death of" the US economy.
resident economics expert |
Nebuli
Caldari
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2006.10.15 01:28:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Nebuli on 15/10/2006 01:34:09
Originally by: JINX HSC
Game time cards are ******* up all eve.. GTC for isk will be the death of eve if not lag will kill it first...
QFT
And to reply to the above.
When rich people can literaly buy with real life money as much ISK as they want they can create monopols on things.
Lets take Vaga as your example, this is just as an example.
GTC seller sees a vaga BPO for sale and thinks its a good idea to own it, he then buys the ISK needed to buy it.
He then makes alot of vagas and makes alot of ISK, he then sees another for sale and buys it, maybe having to buy some more ISK via TC sales to do so.
He now has 2, a good % of the total, 2 might be in the hands of alliances and vagas are never produced off those BPOs for anyone other than the alliances in question.
This guy now has possibly 50% of the BPOs that are used for public sales, he can now do several things, he can produce and sell them, he can find out who has the other BPOs and make them offers they cant refuse, or he can simply buy every vaga placed on the market and put them all up at his own heavily inflated prices.
This could be done to any tech II print, and this guy could be in the game less than a month and become insanely rich, all through TC sales.
If the guy is non legit, he can build up a huge wealth, sell it on ebay and transfer his BPOs to another char, doesnt matter if first gets banned, then repeat.
CEO - Art of War
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zeKzn
Empire of Destiny
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Posted - 2006.10.15 01:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lord Frost
We have no unions in here... the market is flawned in its existance.
What on earth are you talking about. For one, unions only attempt to address so-called "flaws" in the labor market, not any market in general, and secondly, they themselves are far more flawed than anything you could mention in a market system. Unions are among the worst things to be allowed in civilised society, from an economic standpoint.
resident economics expert |
Pestillence
Chav-Scum
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Posted - 2006.10.15 01:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: zeKzn
just because a few items go up hugely in price, or even one entire sector of a market, doesn't mean prices are exploding.
t2 hardners - shield and armour, guns and missile launchers.
Assault frigs, inties, cough *hacs*, cloaks, mwd's and the list goes on.
Supply stays constant and demand increases. You'd have to be blind or stupid to say prices aren't exploding.
The only people who get by imo are the grinders, non pvpr's and the rest buy timecards or purchase isk on ebay.
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2006.10.15 01:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nebuli
GTC seller sees a vaga BPO for sale and thinks its a good idea to own it, he then buys the ISK needed to buy it.
He then makes alot of vagas and makes alot of ISK, he then sees another for sale and buys it, maybe having to buy some more ISK via TC sales to do so.
He now has 2, a good % of the total, 2 might be in the hands of alliances and vagas are never produced off those BPOs for anyone other than the alliances in question.
This guy now has possibly 50% of the BPOs that are used for public sales, he can now do several things, he can produce and sell them, he can find out who has the other BPOs and make them offers they cant refuse, or he can simply buy every vaga placed on the market and put them all up at his own heavily inflated prices.
It's so crazy, it just might work. 
"If you kill all the wolves, you're gonna have a crapload of bunnies. And by bunnies I mean stupid people." Ask Ninja |
666PaZuZu666
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2006.10.15 01:48:00 -
[14]
if it's to high price ? fly to another region , ask a friend , m8te if you have any to help out and ... otherwise mmm that prices can buy lots o t1 cruisers with juicy mods > they pwn a hac with a breeze ... ugh and if you decide to quit eve > can we have your stuff ? LOL 
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2006.10.15 01:52:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 15/10/2006 01:55:04
Originally by: Shirley Koch
...a vaga hits nearby 300 mills now!!! gtc became 100mills more xpsv than 2 months ago...
And in other news, mindlink implants are down from 300 million to 80 million, military connections skillbooks are down from 120 million to 60 million... etc
Nah, in fairness though, there is a steady rate of inflation as anyone playing long enough will confirm, but it's not quite as bad as it appears by picking out the items that have increased the most drastically. 
"If you kill all the wolves, you're gonna have a crapload of bunnies. And by bunnies I mean stupid people." Ask Ninja |
zeKzn
Empire of Destiny
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Posted - 2006.10.15 01:52:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Pestillence
t2 hardners - shield and armour, guns and missile launchers.
Assault frigs, inties, cough *hacs*, cloaks, mwd's and the list goes on.
Supply stays constant and demand increases. You'd have to be blind or stupid to say prices aren't exploding.
The only people who get by imo are the grinders, non pvpr's and the rest buy timecards or purchase isk on ebay.
If you can actually prove that there's inflation over a well-constructed price index, then you'd be right. That is far from it.
resident economics expert |
Sweet Poetry
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Posted - 2006.10.15 01:59:00 -
[17]
I beleive GTC are the cause of the inflation. What's happening is people who are good at making isk are buying up GTC's and then also buying new accounts. Before those people simply made isk for a shorter amount of time per month but now they have things to do with the money.
Some ppl are using GTC to pay for all accounts and increasing the number of accounts they have because they can pay for all of them in isk and they know how to make lots of isk.
I'm pretty good at making isk and havent' paid for my accounts for 3 months but I still think this is hurting eve.
A tier 3 cruise will not be going for such a high price because I don't think the prices of ore is fluctuating and bpo's will be for sale on them on the market (just like the other tech 1 ships).
The reason vaga's are so highly priced is because the the people in control of the bpo(s) are taking advantage of a monopoly / Oligopoli and maximising their profits. It's not supply and demand, it's them deciding what price they will make the max profit on their vagabonds and using it. I think if they sold vagabonds for 50 mill they would sell tons more vagabonds but they would make less money since they make one tenth the profit but only five times the sales. So they are getting silly rich. Something that is going to happen however is that when there are alternate methods of producing the vagabonds (or any HAC raelly) they have lost their oligopoly and people will start undercutting each other and supply and demand will rule again. vaga's may not drop to 50 where I think they belong but they will drop a lot.
I think they need to reduce the profitability of some areas of the game though, somethings are making people way too much isk. Imagine a guy who can make 1 bill per night. He can just about buy 1 year of GTC in a single night. That's what's causing inflation. It used to be, this player would get 10 billion and say to himself well, "I'm damn rich. Yay!" Now he gets 10 bill and says, "maybe I should ***** that complex / asteroid belt some more and buy a dread account"
Sir Bart
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cheru
nemo nobis impune lacessit
SynchronizerZ
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Posted - 2006.10.15 02:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Pestillence
...
Supply stays constant and demand increases. You'd have to be blind or stupid to say prices aren't exploding.
The only people who get by imo are the grinders, non pvpr's and the rest buy timecards or purchase isk on ebay.
Sad but true. Quo vadis, Eve? o.O
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been there
done that |
HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.10.15 02:15:00 -
[19]
Originally by: JINX HSC
Game time cards are ******* up all eve.. GTC for isk will be the death of eve if not lag will kill it first...
bingo
take a look in the damn sell forums. jesus ccp, you might as well just let ppl buy/sell isk on ebay at this point. all you've done is ensure you get your cut of the pie at the cost of game quality
sry if that sounds harsh, i love the game, but the truth hurts
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Cmdr Sy
Off Balance Sheet Entity
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Posted - 2006.10.15 02:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Shirley Koch
i mean if this goes straight forward we pay in 2 months 50 mills for a tier 3 cruisa
The price of T1 ships is fixed by insurance payouts and NPC valuation of mineral content through seeding of T1 items via infinite volume NPC sell orders. Obviously.
You will only see economic distortions in areas of the economy effectively decoupled from routine NPC activities, such as T2 production, rare loot drops and agent rewards.
Even in this category, the conditions are frequently changed, causing prices to go down as well as up. Connections skillbooks are one example - dropping from 400m to 50m in a year. So are implants, with the changes to agent offers and introduction of jump clones.
Regarding T2, stat modifications (eg - EANM II) can increase demand on an item. So can evolution in ship setups, as can be seen in the named damage control market, and community-wide skill progression, an example here being T2 drones. The prices of many items have also followed a pattern of starting high, before falling and levelling out, as can be seen in the case of large T2 armour reps and command ships.
Put simply, you are looking at one item, and not a basket of goods. Actually, inflation is not as bad as it was in summer 2005, when easy L4s and Ravens with pre-nerf torps inflated even T1 ship prices.
I would not say the economy is healthy and fair, as currency farmers and GTC manipulators are introducing cashflows that should not exist. But you certainly will not see the real problems by looking at HAC prices.
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Nymos
Celtic Anarchy
Black Reign Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.15 03:13:00 -
[21]
there are a couple of broken prices, not just hacs but also large t2 guns (you need 6-8 of them), invul fields, t2 bcus, cov ops cloaks (70m+), mwd (>6m for a 1mn one?)... you can't even find crows nowadays, have to search 5 regions to find one. it's just an interceptor, not a mothership...
don't come with supply and demand, we all know about that and even though most pseudo economists on the forums believe that the rest has no idea about RL market mechanics and are uneducated dock workers this is not the case. prices are not entirely dictated by supply and demand because this is not a perfect market and can be manipulated since t2 is almost a monopoly considering that a good share of the t2 output is not put up for sale on the market but goes to alliances. demand has risen considerably while supply, at best, stayed the same. i'm sure if one of the sellers just adds another 50m the rest will follow quickly. he might lose the first sales, but who cares, it will sell anyway. and so it goes on. the prices for faction items are much more stable and reasonable than for some of the t2 stuff and looking at how complicated innovation will be i don't believe it will fix anything.
oh yes, t2 are luxury items, sure... that applies to faction items, yes, but t2 is an upgrade to t1 hence 2 and they are made from blueprints as well. and look at how much better t2 is, it makes some t1 a complete joke. t2 ammo, resists, hitpoints etc. and in case of t2 ships they are often not just upgrades but have specific roles. an inty is much better at intying than a t1 frig. in fact, a t1 frig is worthless for any serious tackling. crap cap, slots, sig radius, speed...
implants have become cheaper because of another broken game mechanic: level 4 courier missions often require real small items to be hauled (in a shuttle) and afaik it still has not been fixed since one of the recent patches. also, the offer table mostly rewards mission runners with implants because a lot of other offers have been removed. there you go, market floods with implants.
and then there is the issue of jita. only one marketplace. sure it has some benefits - for those that never leave the forge region.
but all of this has been posted so often it's not fun.
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zeKzn
Empire of Destiny
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Posted - 2006.10.15 03:17:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nymos
don't come with supply and demand, we all know about that and even though most pseudo economists on the forums believe that the rest has no idea about RL market mechanics and are uneducated dock workers this is not the case. prices are not entirely dictated by supply and demand because this is not a perfect market and can be manipulated since t2 is almost a monopoly considering that a good share of the t2 output is not put up for sale on the market but goes to alliances. demand has risen considerably while supply, at best, stayed the same.
This is still supply and demand - the model doesn't only allow for perfect competition. Yes, its an oligopoly, but what solution do you propse?
Quote:
oh yes, t2 are luxury items, sure... that applies to faction items, yes, but t2 is an upgrade to t1 hence 2 and they are made from blueprints as well. and look at how much better t2 is, it makes some t1 a complete joke. t2 ammo, resists, hitpoints etc. and in case of t2 ships they are often not just upgrades but have specific roles. an inty is much better at intying than a t1 frig. in fact, a t1 frig is worthless for any serious tackling. crap cap, slots, sig radius, speed...
I'm sure AU would disagree. What exactly is your point here anyway? I dont get the connection between this and the previous point.
Quote:
implants have become cheaper because of another broken game mechanic: level 4 courier missions often require real small items to be hauled (in a shuttle) and afaik it still has not been fixed since one of the recent patches. also, the offer table mostly rewards mission runners with implants because a lot of other offers have been removed. there you go, market floods with implants.
isn't this what you want to happen with t2?
resident economics expert
My thoughts are my own and do not reflect those of my Corp/Alliance |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
HelpCorp United
Eden's Fire
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Posted - 2006.10.15 03:17:00 -
[23]
I was totally explaining this to someone in EVE earlier the other day and he completely blew me off.
Gaining isk through non-conventional ingame means (by the way, this includes things such as bookmark selling) moves isk to the wrong places.
For example, if a 2 day noob decides to buy GTCs and sell them for isk he can essentially run an entire market if he plays his cards right.
No 2 day EVE player should be able to get this much isk, let alone control a market. This is wrong and this situation needs to be addressed and/or corrected for better of players making an "honest living" in EVE. I can't say I'm going to quit EVE because of this, but it is literally trashing the game.
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zeKzn
Empire of Destiny
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Posted - 2006.10.15 03:18:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Gaining isk through non-conventional ingame means (by the way, this includes things such as bookmark selling) moves isk to the wrong places.
What defines "wrong" and "right" in this context?
Quote:
No 2 day EVE player should be able to get this much isk, let alone control a market. This is wrong and this situation needs to be addressed and/or corrected for better of players making an "honest living" in EVE. I can't say I'm going to quit EVE because of this, but it is literally trashing the game.
Says who? Why not?
Just because it threatens you because you either cannot or choose not to use the same methods doesn't mean its wrong.
resident economics expert
My thoughts are my own and do not reflect those of my Corp/Alliance |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
HelpCorp United
Eden's Fire
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Posted - 2006.10.15 03:23:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 15/10/2006 03:25:08
Originally by: zeKzn
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Gaining isk through non-conventional ingame means (by the way, this includes things such as bookmark selling) moves isk to the wrong places.
What defines "wrong" and "right" in this context?
People gaining isk through non-tangible in-game items is "wrong".
Originally by: zeKzn
Quote:
No 2 day EVE player should be able to get this much isk, let alone control a market. This is wrong and this situation needs to be addressed and/or corrected for better of players making an "honest living" in EVE. I can't say I'm going to quit EVE because of this, but it is literally trashing the game.
Says who? Why not?
Just because it threatens you because you either cannot or choose not to use the same methods doesn't mean its wrong.
I never said that, I simply stated that someone can come in, have lots of money, and control a part of the game from the start. That is unfair and probably not the way CCP intended for the game to be played.
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zeKzn
Empire of Destiny
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Posted - 2006.10.15 03:26:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
I never said that, I simply stated that someone can come in, have lots of money, and control a part of the game from the start. That is unfair and probably not the way CCP intended for the game to be played.
I agree that its unfair to those who cant or choose not to take the same path. But fairness has never had anything to do with economics. CCP knows what they're doing, and if they see a problem I'm sure they'll address it.
resident economics expert
My thoughts are my own and do not reflect those of my Corp/Alliance |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
HelpCorp United
Eden's Fire
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Posted - 2006.10.15 03:30:00 -
[27]
Originally by: zeKzn
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
I never said that, I simply stated that someone can come in, have lots of money, and control a part of the game from the start. That is unfair and probably not the way CCP intended for the game to be played.
...and if they see a problem I'm sure they'll address it.
That's what I said. -argh-
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zeKzn
Empire of Destiny
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Posted - 2006.10.15 03:33:00 -
[28]
Edited by: zeKzn on 15/10/2006 03:33:37
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
That's what I said. -argh-
then why complain about it?
resident economics expert
My thoughts are my own and do not reflect those of my Corp/Alliance |
Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
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Posted - 2006.10.15 03:50:00 -
[29]
They are addressing this in Kali with invention, keep your pants on. Also yeah the population of eve has boomed, and we badly need more belts, material slots, T2 bpos and bigger npc trade buy/sell orders. Even still I'm sure the devs are concerned with the situations.
At least with exploration there will be explorable belts and all.
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spurious signal
Caldari
Brainiacs
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Posted - 2006.10.15 04:59:00 -
[30]
Originally by: JINX HSC
Game time cards are ******* up all eve.. GTC for isk will be the death of eve if not lag will kill it first...
QFT.
What's happening is that the prices of the most wanted items are increasing - HACs, Cloaks, Command Ships etc. This is fuelled by GTC sales, people now know they can easily get a few billion ISK just by buying some GTCs and so that 300 million Cerberus doesn't look so expensive any more.
Turning an MMORPG into an RMT game is a very, very bad idea.
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Reckless Eddie
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Posted - 2006.10.15 05:08:00 -
[31]
Originally by: spurious signal
What's happening is that the prices of the most wanted items are increasing - HACs, Cloaks, Command Ships etc. This is fuelled by GTC sales, people now know they can easily get a few billion ISK just by buying some GTCs and so that 300 million Cerberus doesn't look so expensive any more.
Turning an MMORPG into an RMT game is a very, very bad idea.
rmt was around before gtc trades and will still be around if they are stopped
watched you cry, watched you fly, watched you die |
zeKzn
Empire of Destiny
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Posted - 2006.10.15 05:59:00 -
[32]
Originally by: spurious signal
Turning an MMORPG into an RMT game is a very, very bad idea.
Explain why. You cant make statements like this without supporting them with a solid foundation of logic.
I fail to see why its a bad idea.
resident economics expert
My thoughts are my own and do not reflect those of my Corp/Alliance |
Dopefish
Amarr
Quad and Fish
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Posted - 2006.10.15 06:35:00 -
[33]
Markups: buy cheap set out at higher price.
Rich people: sweatshop owners, T2 lottery winners, gtc tycoons.
Combine and you get people who can buy and control large portions of the market.
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spurious signal
Caldari
Brainiacs
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Posted - 2006.10.15 06:45:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Reckless Eddie
rmt was around before gtc trades and will still be around if they are stopped
Black market (eBay) RMT will always operate at a lower level than official, sanctioned RMT.
Before GTCs for ISK was encouraged by CCP if people bought ISK for real money they kept quiet about it. Now you see posts on these forums all the time where people openly admit to buying ISK for real money. There was one the other day, the usual small-corp-gets-wardecced-by-big-griefing-corp type of thread but the poster said openly that his corp CEO had bought a few billion ISK to buy ships with.
Legitimising something previously illegal will always increase the uptake of it.
Originally by: zeKzn
Originally by: spurious signal
Turning an MMORPG into an RMT game is a very, very bad idea.
Explain why. You cant make statements like this without supporting them with a solid foundation of logic.
I fail to see why its a bad idea.
Hi, this entire thread is about massive inflation in certain sections of the market. Which bit of me saying that I thought this inflation was because of GTC sales didn't I explain clearly enough?
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Lygos
ISS Navy Task Force
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Posted - 2006.10.15 06:49:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Lygos on 15/10/2006 06:49:29
What you are witnessing is "Idle Savings."
In most macroeconomic studies, you will often see examinations of a national savings rate. This rate is normally closely tied to the investment rate, excepting regions where foreign investment occurs at a much higher rate. Generally though, the trends coincide, as strong domestic investment attracts foriegn investment, but I digress.
In pedestrian terms, it can be understood as follows: Man saves money -> it stands idle earning nothing for a time while it is being saved -> man decides to spend surplus money on new business/expanding business -> less money in immediate net savings -> GDP changes depending on the fortunes of investment.
Savings that get too high are like lag on the supply side. They are investments, expansions, and replacement development that is yet-to-be. When this happens, central monetary institutions tend to boost incentives to build businesses. Too little savings, and not only are investments crimped, but ordinary foriegn investors tend to get spooked too. Jump-starting savings habits tend to be hard, especially when a currency is unstable. Throughout the 90s, this was a notable index referred to in wide swath of international investment firms and monetary development organizations. Argentina is a favorite example.
One might surmise that CCP has attempted to deflate savings by making POS npc-only sales. However, the labor allocation mechanics and risk-managment mechanics are a bit flawed for us to witness either intensive deployment of these objects, nor a circulation of wealth via mass investment by the upper classes in "middle" class labor and projects. As a consequence, to keep the game hobbling along, CCP keep boosting npc payouts. I fully expect more of the same with each successive patch. If you're also a mirthless bastard, then you might as well adopt the same saturnine outlook.
*Please note that hypercompetitions zones, or hubs such as Jita, as well as the t1 prices/mineral ratio prices are impervious to idle savings. However, labor in all non-mining fields is affected, as is meta good prices. Non-mining labor includes merc/hauler/etc prices. Mining labor is not included, because mineral prices are constrained by npc buy orders, and by npc-sold item refining.
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Private Investment should preceed Public Investment |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.15 08:34:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Lygos
*Please note that hypercompetitions zones, or hubs such as Jita, as well as the t1 prices/mineral ratio prices are impervious to idle savings. However, labor in all non-mining fields is affected, as is meta good prices. Non-mining labor includes merc/hauler/etc prices. Mining labor is not included, because mineral prices are constrained by npc buy orders, and by npc-sold item refining.
In four words, ISKs grow on trees.
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Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
Minmatar Hate Club. |
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.15 08:57:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Avon on 15/10/2006 08:58:04
The problem is not GTC sales, the problem is that making ISK is too easy.
GTC sales just redistribute chunks of ISK, but someone actually had to make that ISK in the first place.
With 90 day cards getting near the 400mil mark, that indicates that players who buy the codes are not struggling to make ISK, and probably have plenty left over to fund their characters needs too.
If anything, the increase of GTC ISK prices is a good indication of the ease of ISK making.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.15 09:02:00 -
[38]
Which tech1 ships or modules have gone up in price so much exactly ?
None, that's which.
Now, which tech2 item has gone up ?
Nearly all of them.
The most logical conclusion is that mild inflation (as it has been for three continuous years now), and a fast growing population of people able to fly and/or use tech2 are conspiring to increase the demand of most tech2 items steadily where supply is static.
GTC's probably have next to nothing to do with things, because when GTC for isk was allowed, almost all good tech2 bpo's had already been through the market, and had ended up with a producer that has held on to them since. Hardly any t2 bpo gets sold, or has been for the last half year to a year.
That means that isk buyers end up with a lot of isk to buy tech2 at market price yes, and tech1, and everything else. But that isk would have been there to be spent on that anyway. It may raise overall inflation somewhat because more isk gets concentrated and is more likely to be spent on produced goods then, but in the overall picture that shouldn't be making much on an impact.
Stop whining about the isk buying whenever you can think of some stupid arguemtn why it is ruining the game please. If you want it to stop think of a good reason, silly reasons aren't going to.
Old blog |
elrikyo
Puppets on Steroids
iPOD Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.15 09:05:00 -
[39]
Edited by: elrikyo on 15/10/2006 09:05:18
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Lygos
*Please note that hypercompetitions zones, or hubs such as Jita, as well as the t1 prices/mineral ratio prices are impervious to idle savings. However, labor in all non-mining fields is affected, as is meta good prices. Non-mining labor includes merc/hauler/etc prices. Mining labor is not included, because mineral prices are constrained by npc buy orders, and by npc-sold item refining.
In four words, ISKs grow on trees.
Can People stop using that irritating U.S dictionary, and start spelling words properly. Labour not Labor....... so many other words in eve too :(
Back to the Point. Seperate Empire regions by blankets of 0.0 space to increase trade. You then create mini-hubs, and the main hubs then start spreading out into these mini hubs around eve, creating a small vacuum. We should then see a decrease in persons in Jita and Rens.
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lofty29
Praxiteles Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.15 09:07:00 -
[40]
What I'm confused by is why the T2 BC prices have exploded. When the 20% agility boost is introduced, so is invention...
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Praxitele's Inc. is Recruiting! |
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elrikyo
Puppets on Steroids
iPOD Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.15 09:10:00 -
[41]
Current output of t2 is correlated to the availbility of t2 blueprints, which is stagnant, yet the population of Eve is on an increase trend.
Demand is therfore higher than supply, and the demand curve shifts upwards over the static supply curve, leading to a increase in equilibrium price.
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mishkof
Caldari
Emerald Empire
Muffins of Mayhem
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Posted - 2006.10.15 09:13:00 -
[42]
Edited by: mishkof on 15/10/2006 09:13:17
I love seeing the fanboys mutterings in these threads. they are quite amusing.
"Yes the prices are fine. Just grind for a week to fit a raven, it will be alright Little Joey...While you go ahead and do that I am off to sell a couple more GTC's to the unemployed that play this game."
"What? You cant afford a vega??? You noob."
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.15 09:14:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 15/10/2006 09:15:37
May be T2 pwn so hard and pro-T2ers say you need T2 to win. Add it with ISKs grow on trees and real elites are elites because they can buy them at any price and win. Non-elites can not afford expensive stuffs and decide to whine on forum.
Competitiveness at its best. Buy and fly T2 fitted Stabbers if you want the price to go down. Oh wait, they are crap.
---------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
Minmatar Hate Club. |
Peter Stuyvesant
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.10.15 09:15:00 -
[44]
Originally by: elrikyo
Can People stop using that irritating U.S dictionary, and start spelling words properly. Labour not Labor....... so many other words in eve too :(
No. People from the US spell certain words differently. Who are you to say what is 'proper' spelling?
Btw you mis-spelled 'warfare' 
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mishkof
Caldari
Emerald Empire
Muffins of Mayhem
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Posted - 2006.10.15 09:21:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 15/10/2006 09:15:37
May be T2 pwn so hard and pro-T2ers say you need T2 to win. Add it with ISKs grow on trees and real elites are elites because they can buy them at any price and win. Non-elites can not afford expensive stuffs and decide to whine on forum.
Competitiveness at its best. Buy and fly T2 fitted Stabbers if you want the price to go down. Oh wait, they are crap.
I would bet that you own a few T2 BPO's.
I am sowwy massa, I wot tak baly about you again. I am such a noob and growel at yu fete. ples sell tek 2 mods at resunable prices.
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Vince Draken
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.15 09:23:00 -
[46]
Originally by: mishkof
Edited by: mishkof on 15/10/2006 09:13:17
I love seeing the fanboys mutterings in these threads. they are quite amusing.
"Yes the prices are fine. Just grind for a week to fit a raven, it will be alright Little Joey...While you go ahead and do that I am off to sell a couple more GTC's to the unemployed that play this game."
"What? You cant afford a vega??? You noob."
What's funny is that you complain about other peoples posts, yet yours is just as bad if not worse.
Lets be clear here, the inflation is mostly T2 related. This is due to a growing demand and a static supply. I remember when people complained about 100M isk HAC's not too long ago. Quite honestly, I am doubting invention is going to be the answer. I hope I am wrong. I think what CCP did with the lottery and let it fester so long without addressing it created some massive isk imballances that will never be corrected.
The above thoughts and statements are IC and should be taken as such. |
Vince Draken
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.15 09:25:00 -
[47]
Originally by: elrikyo
Can People stop using that irritating U.S dictionary, and start spelling words properly. Labour not Labor....... so many other words in eve too :(
I guess you should have created the Internet.
The above thoughts and statements are IC and should be taken as such. |
mishkof
Caldari
Emerald Empire
Muffins of Mayhem
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Posted - 2006.10.15 09:30:00 -
[48]
Edited by: mishkof on 15/10/2006 09:33:47
Originally by: Vince Draken
What's funny is that you complain about other peoples posts, yet yours is just as bad if not worse.
Lets be clear here, the inflation is mostly T2 related. This is due to a growing demand and a static supply. I remember when people complained about 100M isk HAC's not too long ago. Quite honestly, I am doubting invention is going to be the answer. I hope I am wrong. I think what CCP did with the lottery and let it fester so long without addressing it created some massive isk imballances that will never be corrected.
WTF are you talking about? I know invention probably isnt going to have a dramaitc affect on T2 prices. Why do you think I responded to this post the way I did? you pretty much agreed with me and flamed me in the same post.
I just love it when T2 BPO owners come on here and defend the ridiculous nature of the T2 market.
Are you gonna tell me the Tech 2 market isnt ridiculous?
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Cmdr Sy
Off Balance Sheet Entity
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Posted - 2006.10.15 09:38:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Vince Draken
Quite honestly, I am doubting invention is going to be the answer. I hope I am wrong.
I read the Invention blog, and it struck me that no production chain with that many steps requiring specialist input, is going to yield a product that will compete on price with existing T2. They included numerous "mini professions" in there, forgetting to take a step back from their pet project of interconnecting NPCing and production specialists, to realise that every link in the chain is going to impose a mark-up.
In real life, large high tech companies are often run on the principle that every department involved in a product has to be profitable in its own right, and achieves this by adding a mark-up to whatever goods and services it supplies. The end result is that the sticker price can be double the manufacturing cost, or even some large multiple, and this is the accepted price because it is a self-sustaining structural reality that no-one can do anything about.
Unless every step in the chain can be effectively managed by the same small group of individuals to produce, regularly and predictably, a product in relatively large volume, most people who find themselves with something to offer to the process will end up selling into a buy order placed by some conglomerate. CCP would simply be creating a few more seats on the board of tycoons.
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Yann Xonogoth
Gallente
Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.15 09:40:00 -
[50]
mmm I am not sure if I understood it right:
You can buy legally ISK for real money? 
Say me yes, and I leave EVE instantly.
Yann Xonogoth
Miner for the Multiverse Corporation |
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mishkof
Caldari
Emerald Empire
Muffins of Mayhem
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Posted - 2006.10.15 09:44:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Yann Xonogoth
mmm I am not sure if I understood it right:
You can buy legally ISK for real money?
Say me yes, and I leave EVE instantly.
Look at the sell forums(specifically the abbreviated word GTC). It isnt "direct" yet at the same time doasnt really take to much effort.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.10.15 09:58:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Yann Xonogoth
mmm I am not sure if I understood it right:
You can buy legally ISK for real money?
Say me yes, and I leave EVE instantly.
Unfortunately, yes. That's the reason you see clueless dolts running around with eBayed characters in faction battleships and expensive t2 ships, with zero clue on how to use them. It's also one of the causes of the current price craziness, since some people just want skip all this boring "game" stuff and buy all the isk they want... so the sellers can jack up prices to heavens, because there's always some bought-isk idiot who's willing to buy the stuff.
Sigh. Allowing GTC sales is one of the biggest mistakes in EVE, right after the t2 lottery. It's introducing a lot of unhealthy elements into the game.
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Yann Xonogoth
Gallente
Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.15 10:12:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Yann Xonogoth on 15/10/2006 10:15:07
This is indeed very sad.
So far I had only good things to say about EVE, but this last news is... wow, cant find the words 
This destroys a MMO, simple as that.
A good thing that I started only 2 weeks ago, it will be easy for me to quit.
Sad news for all of you who have spend so much time in this game.
EDIT.
Many people play MMO because the ingame economy is "legit", without interraction from the RL.
As soon as you start allowing items or ingame money to be bought, it's like legalizing dupes, character trainers, and all kind of cheats.
I guess that the next step is : pay 100Ç for 5,000,000 SP, mmm?
I am D I S G U S T E D.
Bye bye EVE.
Yann Xonogoth
Miner for the Multiverse Corporation |
Tek'a Rain
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.10.15 10:28:00 -
[54]
your stuff, can I have it?
anyhow. I dont see so much market horror in the non-t2 chain.
sure, there are bad spots. like Destroyer prices (or anything prices) at starter station are most often some insane 100% about regional sales averages, and some items Drop or Shoot in price. Connections skillbooks dropping price because supply is increasing, some factional items skyrockets because the Complex that supplyed them suddenly dried up and is now giving out 1/100th the number. (angel ships and frigates, right?)
but Overall its just a slow, moderate inflation in the t1 sector, which si to be expected.
dont get me started on drones.
Blaque or Foiritan |
Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.15 10:44:00 -
[55]
You numpties , you don't really get it do you ?
Invention is not a feature, it's a tool for CCP. With invention they improve their control over the balancing of tech2 prices on the market.
Ever since the lottery people have complained that CCP should somehow cap tech2 prices at mineral cost + fair margin. I can tell you right here and right now that they are not going to, period. Tech2 is supposed to be damn expensive, it is going to be damn expensive. Your right to it does not depend on the skills to use it, but on the isk to buy it. That's the risk for your reward: monetary units not covered by insurance.
Variable prices are also a great FOTM dampening mechanism for tech2 ships. Vagabonds are 300m+ because of what ? Right, because they are overpowered, they are the FOTM (well, multiple months now actually). Everyone wants one, only a few can get one. Expensive FOTM's aren't abused as much as inexpensive FOTM's, because you're not very likely to be hurling 300m ships at anyone that passes by now are you ?
So, expensive and variably-priced tech2 is part of the design, and is not going to change. So why invention ?
Invention can be a great tool assuming CCP code in the succes rate per individual item rather then as an overall formula to cover the whole of the process. Individual succes rates mean they can tweak the prices of every single tech2 item indirectly by changing the chance of succesfull invention, or changing the efficiency of the resulting bpc, or changing the requirement of the invention process itself even.
You see ? All things they can finetune to take more control over the tech2 markets.
Just don't expect HAC's to drop below 100m isk or so, because I'd say that that simply should be roughly the intended balance point.
Old blog |
Caletha
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Posted - 2006.10.15 10:59:00 -
[56]
Cry me a river about GTC's tbh. Its purely a redistribution of already existing ISK. It has nothing to do with a Vagabond reaching 300m. Neither does the 'its overpowered' play a part, because honestly without a snake implant set its not. Yes its fast but its damage and tanking ability is sub-par.
Everything in Eve has become way more expensive in the last month or so. Take a look at the F85 damage controls, they used to be 3m for ages, now suddenly their 5-6m? The best non-faction web (Fleeting, 90%) used to be 3m for ages, now their also 5-6m? Several other items have had a recent spur in price like this (Sensor Damp's, Target painters, etc).
Lets take a look at some faction stuff, a Macherial went from 500-600m to 900m. A Gist B-Type XLarge Shield Booster went from 450 (a price it had for MONTHS) to 700-800m. A Gistii A-Type Small Shield Booster went from 110 to 150-160m. A Gist B-Type Shield Boost Amp went from 95 to 200+.
With several T2 stuff its really the same, Vagabonds, Cerberus, Deimos, etc. They've all went up 100m in the last month or two.
Thats not something you can blame on GTC's, or blame on just demand. I think I'll go into faction item-collecting though, buy them now, sell them in a month for 150% of their current price. Same for hac's etc.
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.10.15 11:15:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 15/10/2006 11:18:27
Originally by: spurious signal
What's happening is that the prices of the most wanted items are increasing - HACs, Cloaks, Command Ships etc.
That the price of command ships would steadily increase for some time, after all BPOs were given out, was imho a no-brainer, because the skill requirements are quite high. If I had had billions of isk, I think I would have bought cheap command ships to resell them later.
/edit but ok, 425mm t2 rails would have been a better deal after the announcment of the rokh
Having a break from EVE until my broadband connection is working again. |
Soraya Silvermoon
Never'where
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Posted - 2006.10.15 11:40:00 -
[58]
Close down the GTC sales..
1, you`llget a market wehre rl money doesnt manipulate it.. (if you could pay 1 dollar rl money to fly a dread it would be rally tempting and the market would get up to the point where it cost so much in isk that I`d have to pay more rl money than I would want to... wehre I woiuld quit buying it for rl money.. (this is how it affects market)
2 lots of ppl farm isk and use em on gtc to suppport several accounts.
Remove gtc and the alt gallore will be gone (I know ppl who got 10 accounts n such)Allso this will decrease lag overall...
However this will impact the few ppl who rely on gtc to support their main account.. but thouse who are so poor they cant afford to play eve should not and frankly I dont see how they can support owning a computer. Allso this is a very little % of the player base and I`m going to be flamed for this but who cares.. Decrease lag :P
even better..
Put thouse who want to use gtc on an other server..
Or you could put me and the rest who dont want GTC on another server.. I dont care...
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Miss Overlord
Gallente
EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.10.15 11:44:00 -
[59]
kali done right will reduce high end t2 prices tho others are unlikley to move much either
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Zaldoza
Caldari
Holographic MindWare Constructions
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Posted - 2006.10.15 12:00:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 15/10/2006 08:58:04
The problem is not GTC sales, the problem is that making ISK is too easy.
GTC sales just redistribute chunks of ISK, but someone actually had to make that ISK in the first place.
With 90 day cards getting near the 400mil mark, that indicates that players who buy the codes are not struggling to make ISK, and probably have plenty left over to fund their characters needs too.
If anything, the increase of GTC ISK prices is a good indication of the ease of ISK making.
So lets say they made it harder to make isk,the sellers would be forced to lower prices on gtc and other things.It would change nothing,they would still be in controll.
Zaldoc...Miner
Zaldoza..Mission Runner
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Kentucky Smith
Serenity Technology
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Posted - 2006.10.15 12:13:00 -
[61]
Supply and demand, Supply and demand, Supply and demand. Man when are u going to get it its not SUPPLY AND DEMAND its greed, and or what people are willing to pay.I recently watched a region with over a dozen of the same hac on the market at 185mill. They have sat there for a month and are still there. If it was supply and demand they would be going down fast but theyre still there. Greed is my opinion always has been always will be no matter what ccp or any of you economist say!
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.15 12:14:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Zaldoza
So lets say they made it harder to make isk,the sellers would be forced to lower prices on gtc and other things.It would change nothing,they would still be in controll.
In control of what?
The GTC sellers trade gametime for ISK.
TS providers trade TS services for ISK.
Sig makers trade their skills for ISK.
Killboard providers offer their services (and hosting) for ISK.
etc.
How is a GTC seller 'worse' than, for example, a TS provider?
They both exchange $$ for ISK.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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X ChaosX
Panzershrek
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Posted - 2006.10.15 12:22:00 -
[63]
Supply and demand is causing the prices to go up, not GTCs. GTCs don't add money to the game, only changes who is holding the money.
Supply stays the same and demand increases over time. The more people able to fly hacs, the more people who probably want to buy hacs while there aren't any more hacs being made now then in the past.
yes I know it isn't just hacs, I was using hacs as an example.
______________________________________________
Originally by: Bill Shankly
i see your another one of those lousy pirates that cant fight fair and call yourself apvper, what a joke u are.
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Cmdr Sy
Off Balance Sheet Entity
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Posted - 2006.10.15 12:53:00 -
[64]
Originally by: X ChaosX
Supply and demand is causing the prices to go up, not GTCs. GTCs don't add money to the game, only changes who is holding the money.
Perhaps not quite.
I suspect GTCs act as an incentive to add more money to the game than would otherwise be added.
It is not just about buying timecodes with real ÇÇÇ, selling them for ISK, and thus indirectly purchasing ISK. Not everyone who buys them really wishes to pay for their EVE subscription with the proceeds of a week spent in a 0.0 belt, and then leave the market for the year. GTCs are a tradable commodity like everything else, they can ultimately be converted into anything else, and to play that game, you need capital.
I suspect a lot of NPC grind is associated with GTCs. I suspect a lot of excess ISK inflow into the game is caused by the existence of this special financial instrument. Because ultimately if a mechanism exists, and can be exploited for profit, it will be used. Supply can create demand and expand associated activities.
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zeKzn
Empire of Destiny
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Posted - 2006.10.15 15:37:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Kentucky Smith
Supply and demand, Supply and demand, Supply and demand. Man when are u going to get it its not SUPPLY AND DEMAND its greed, and or what people are willing to pay.I recently watched a region with over a dozen of the same hac on the market at 185mill. They have sat there for a month and are still there. If it was supply and demand they would be going down fast but theyre still there. Greed is my opinion always has been always will be no matter what ccp or any of you economist say!
You know, economics has a name for that. Its called Supply and Demand. The entire concept of the invisible hand comes down to greed - and there's nothing wrong with it. Instead of spouting crap you've been fed by liberals about what makes capitalism evil, think for your own. Greed is the only thing that makes the world work.
resident economics expert
My thoughts are my own and do not reflect those of my Corp/Alliance |
zeKzn
Empire of Destiny
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Posted - 2006.10.15 15:39:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
I suspect GTCs act as an incentive to add more money to the game than would otherwise be added.
This is pretty much the only thing I can agree with that would lead GTCs to cause inflation. What I fail to see is why some degree of inflation is a bad thing. The only arguments so far as to why have been emotional attempts to shock people with examples of "far too high" prices on certain items, without explaining why they're too high.
resident economics expert
My thoughts are my own and do not reflect those of my Corp/Alliance |
Taram Caldar
Caldari
Acheron Vanguard Armada
The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.10.15 15:58:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 15/10/2006 16:02:44
3 things are causing prices to explode:
1) Expanding player base, finite resources
2) Expanding demand due to expanding player base, finite resources
3) To a lesser extent the GTC Sales are making a few Real world wealthy people able to get filthy rich in game. Which allows them to buy items for inflated prices just to get them faster which, in turn, slightly inflates the prices of the items available as sellers try to cater to the 'rich' instead of the 'average' player.
EVE, while large, still has a finite number of resources. The number of players in EVE has grown by over 100,000 in the past year or so (actually the past 16 months or so). Basically: Player base more than doubles in 16 months = prices are bound to go up.
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Taram Caldar
Caldari
Acheron Vanguard Armada
The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.10.15 16:00:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 15/10/2006 16:00:21
Originally by: zeKzn
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
I suspect GTCs act as an incentive to add more money to the game than would otherwise be added.
This is pretty much the only thing I can agree with that would lead GTCs to cause inflation. What I fail to see is why some degree of inflation is a bad thing. The only arguments so far as to why have been emotional attempts to shock people with examples of "far too high" prices on certain items, without explaining why they're too high.
GTC's don't add money to the game.
They just redistribute what's already there.
Player makes x ISK
Player2 buys time code for $$$
Player2 sells time code for x ISK
Player 1 buys time code for x ISK
Given that X = X there is no increase in in game money. It's just being re-distributed to those who can afford to buy time codes as a source of in-game income. I agree that they are a problem, however, because they give an unfair advantage to players who have greater financial resources OUTSIDE the game.
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zeKzn
Empire of Destiny
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Posted - 2006.10.15 16:18:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Taram Caldar
GTC's don't add money to the game.
They just redistribute what's already there.
Player makes x ISK
Player2 buys time code for $$$
Player2 sells time code for x ISK
Player 1 buys time code for x ISK
Given that X = X there is no increase in in game money. It's just being re-distributed to those who can afford to buy time codes as a source of in-game income. I agree that they are a problem, however, because they give an unfair advantage to players who have greater financial resources OUTSIDE the game.
If you read the post I quoted, you'd see the hypothesis that with the advent of GTC for ISK sales, people have more incentive to farm ISK from the various ISK fountains in the game in order to purchase GTCs.
And I didn't say they were a problem - I dont believe they are.
resident economics expert
My thoughts are my own and do not reflect those of my Corp/Alliance |
Tarazed Aquilae
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Posted - 2006.10.15 17:11:00 -
[70]
There is no inflation in Eve. Prices on T-1 items are lower today than they were a year ago.
There is a huge demand fro T-II items because there are so many people with the skills to use them now. Meanwhile production hasnÆt increased at all.
There is more wealth in Eve now, this is NOT the same thing as inflation. Many people have tens, and even hundreds, of billions of ISK. These people are not buying their ISK with real money (at least for the most part) theyÆve gotten it from just successfully playing Eve for a long time or having valuable T-II BPOs.
These wealthy characters have no problem with bidding up the costs of T-II items.
The high costs of T-II items, particularly the ships, is not a bad thing. They are generally incredibly powerful units and should be scarce. If everyone could afford a HAC then the new players would be hopelessly outclassed by everyone until they spent months training up for one.
Personally I think agents should have just given out BPCs for T-II items, not BPOs. That would have spread the wealth out a lot. But the supply should be kept low enough that T-II is always expensive.
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Rafein
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.15 17:30:00 -
[71]
agreed. there is no inflation. if anything, things are still deflated.
Now, the premium and rare items may be selling for more, but that does not mean the eve economy, as a whole, is getting outta control. When we see Ravens and Megas selling for 130 million isk, that's inflation. but your still seeing ships selling for less than their base price, Ravens's for 100 million, where their base retai price is 108 million. So overall, the market is pretty deflated.
When premium items, and limited items are going up in price, it's supply and demand. There are now more people who are looking for premium items, which causes competition, which means sellers can raise their price by keeping production constant.
and GTC are an animal until themselves. It is also supply and demand, as people get the isk they want, they stop sellin, so supply dries up, and more people say hey, I can play for fre, so demand increases. Of course, people are going to get every bit of isk outta their RL investment.
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Nebuli
Caldari
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2006.10.16 01:13:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Rafein
agreed. there is no inflation. if anything, things are still deflated.
Now, the premium and rare items may be selling for more, but that does not mean the eve economy, as a whole, is getting outta control. When we see Ravens and Megas selling for 130 million isk, that's inflation. but your still seeing ships selling for less than their base price, Ravens's for 100 million, where their base retai price is 108 million. So overall, the market is pretty deflated.
When premium items, and limited items are going up in price, it's supply and demand. There are now more people who are looking for premium items, which causes competition, which means sellers can raise their price by keeping production constant.
and GTC are an animal until themselves. It is also supply and demand, as people get the isk they want, they stop sellin, so supply dries up, and more people say hey, I can play for fre, so demand increases. Of course, people are going to get every bit of isk outta their RL investment.
While I agree to a degree that some people may "buy" the ISK they want through GTC, and then stop I would also say there are alot that...
Buy TC for $15 lets say, sell it for 400mil isk, then sell 400mil ISK on ebay for what, I dunno never looked but I'd assume higher than the price of a TC, so lets say $20, thats $5 proffit from a single sale.
At least I assume this happens, having never looked at GT prices in RL or online I dont realy know, same for ebay ISK I wouldnt have the first clue how much this is, but I bet you can make real life cash from selling TC and then selling the ISK on again.
CEO - Art of War
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Miss Overlord
Gallente
EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.10.16 03:10:00 -
[73]
CCP will make nerfs , boosts etc if required they always have
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arjun
Viziam
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Posted - 2006.10.16 03:36:00 -
[74]
if there is a price explosion, then only on the t2/rare item market. t1 market is rather stagnant. mineral prices in jita are falling since weeks.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente
EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.10.16 03:39:00 -
[75]
interest will eb ot see what kali does to mineral prices i think data cores might be a good vaulable thing to get into
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Suki Casanave
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.10.16 03:57:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Suki Casanave on 16/10/2006 03:58:05
Edited by: Suki Casanave on 16/10/2006 03:57:46
stupid double click
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Capt Harlock
Band of Builders Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.16 04:50:00 -
[77]
oh no the sky is falling again!!! O.k reality is you are alowed by ccp to buy and sell gtc for isk. You may choose to not do or do these things. If you don't that is your choice. If you really wanna spend RL cash on in game stuff then fair enough I wouldn't but thats just me. Same as i've never fitted faction mods to my ships, I'm used to getting ganked and no amount of faction stuff is gonna save me.
I have bought GTC for isk though and haven't payed RL cash to play this game on both chars for bout 6 months. I LOVE that because i can't afford to play atm in RL and its been a real lifeline to be able to pay with isk. If a vagabond costs 300 mil for the love of dog don't buy it. I have only ever bought 1 set of cap recharger II's in over 2 years of eve i lost them the first week I bought them. I vowed never to use them again and i haven't, eutectics do just fine. Same with zealots i have been able to fly a zealot since the hac skill came out i've never flew one because i thought they were too expensive.
I realise I can't have everything in EvE the trouble is some people think they have a god given right to be able to buy everything in eve at a reasonable price omg how boring is that!!!! WHEN i can afford a zealot it will be a sense of achievement hey look at me i can afford to lose this beast sucks to be you omen pilots :p When i can afford everything in eve i will begin to worry the game will become stale a bit like playing a game on cheat mode gets boring fast. 
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CP Vissick
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Posted - 2006.10.16 12:01:00 -
[78]
Originally by: zeKzn
Unions are among the worst things to be allowed in civilised society, from an economic standpoint.
A monumentally idiotic comment, unless of course the best thing for the economy is to have a virtually penniless, overworked and malnourished workforce. If you genuinely think employers and ruling classes in general will pay a fair wage and provide good working conditions of their own free will, you need to start using your head. Because they wouldn't. Ever. |
Sweet Poetry
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Posted - 2006.11.04 09:45:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Sweet Poetry on 04/11/2006 09:48:22
Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant
Originally by: elrikyo
Can People stop using that irritating U.S dictionary, and start spelling words properly. Labour not Labor....... so many other words in eve too :(
No. People from the US spell certain words differently. Who are you to say what is 'proper' spelling?
When you're in school and you spell the word 'scrap' as 'skrap' what does your teacher tell you? "The is not how you spell 'scrap.'"
Now, when everyone that speaks the english language spells the word 'colour' one way and people in the United states spell it 'color.' I think it's perfectly fair to say: "This is not how you spell 'colour,' please use a dictionary that contains correct spelling."
-Bart
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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.04 10:13:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Caletha
Lets take a look at some faction stuff, a Macherial went from 500-600m to 900m. A Gist B-Type XLarge Shield Booster went from 450 (a price it had for MONTHS) to 700-800m. A Gistii A-Type Small Shield Booster went from 110 to 150-160m. A Gist B-Type Shield Boost Amp went from 95 to 200+.
Most of those particular examples can be attributed to the Angel 8/10 complex exploit having been fixed, thereby reducing supply.
/Ben
How to fix Eve |
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Balklanac
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.11.04 11:15:00 -
[81]
Any parents going to buy Vagabonds for thir kids over Christmas?
Just wondering....
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I would love to see a bounty pilot get some friend or an alt to pod them to collect the isk if that resulted in a two week delay before their 'personality' was uploaded to a new clone. |
Miss Overlord
Gallente
EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.11.04 11:18:00 -
[82]
and we keep moving along
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Nev Clavain
Wise Guys
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Posted - 2006.11.04 11:19:00 -
[83]
Originally by: zeKzn
Originally by: Lord Frost
We have no unions in here... the market is flawned in its existance.
What on earth are you talking about. For one, unions only attempt to address so-called "flaws" in the labor market, not any market in general, and secondly, they themselves are far more flawed than anything you could mention in a market system. Unions are among the worst things to be allowed in civilised society, from an economic standpoint.
But from a humanitarian standpoint? probably quite a good thing. They remind people where the true power really lies. Everything else is just conferred temporarily.
On topic again... GTCs probably do mess up the game economy, and probably will be the death of EVE. You may as well let people play in pounds and dollars. Charge up your account with cash to buy items etc. I'm sure that is an endgame any MMO developer would love to get into, purely from an economic point of view.
Good for the game? Hell no.
Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels and 24000 bytes in size or less. -Kaemonn |
Epidemis
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Posted - 2006.11.04 11:57:00 -
[84]
Originally by: zeKzn
Edited by: zeKzn on 15/10/2006 01:28:36
Edited by: zeKzn on 15/10/2006 01:28:07
Edited by: zeKzn on 15/10/2006 01:27:44
Originally by: Andargor theWise
Well, supply and demand dictated by mechanics in a game world. Laughing
Not everything is pure macro/microeconomics in eve.
While this is true, the differences do not affect supply and demand to an extent large enough to matter. Supply and Demand rules will apply any time there is a good being produced and sold for a price to those who demand it.
Originally by: JINX HSC
Game time cards are ******* up all eve.. GTC for isk will be the death of eve if not lag will kill it first...
This is idiotic. GTCs dont:
- Increase the money supply
- Unbalance the game
GTCs do equate to an exchange rate between ISK and "real world" currencies
Whilst they may contribute to inflation because people who sell GTCs are then able to spend more on the same items, this doesn't matter. What you are saying is like the US saying it would no longer exchange dollars for any other currency, because it will "be the death of" the US economy.
The ease of aquisition raises demand, no?
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