EVE Search - Kali Learning Skills?

All Channels

Skill Discussions

Kali Learning Skills?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Alfarinn FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.15 07:08:00 - [1] Edited by: Alfarinn on 15/10/2006 07:09:56 My apologies if this has been asked/answered before, I used eve-search.com but it returned no results (well actually it timed-out twice ). Are there going to be any new Learning Skills in Kali? Thanks in anticipation
MEBHansen	Posted - 2006.10.15 07:11:00 - [2] No. Infact, I seem to remember something about a Dev being sorry for introducing the first set of learning skills, so don¦t expect a new set of skills.
Dagam Dagam Corp	Posted - 2006.10.15 07:51:00 - [3] Amen. Learning skills are a terrible game mechanic. I'm done with it but I can't imagine how it helps the game in any way.
Mealka Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.15 12:00:00 - [4] Helping you to learn skills faster ?!
Ashley Ro	Posted - 2006.10.15 16:24:00 - [5] Originally by: Mealka Helping you to learn skills faster ?! But for what reason ? Skills take even with learnings enough time. And when i want to get a player into EvE and tell him to train one month only learnings to be effectiv he Stop downloading the game. Ppl like instant aktion. Why buy a month for testing a game when you need to skill learnings with no game effekt directly to your char ? But thats an old discussion, learnings 4 the borring..
Mayoz	Posted - 2006.10.15 17:22:00 - [6] I actually like the idea of learning skills (and im new :p), I don't have to train them if I don't want to train them I get the choice, also stops me from rushing into getting ship/items I can't use yet and losing my hard earned isk
scabbsssjr Gallente The Afterlife Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.15 17:59:00 - [7] Edited by: scabbsssjr on 15/10/2006 17:59:53 Originally by: Ashley Ro Originally by: Mealka Helping you to learn skills faster ?! But for what reason ? Skills take even with learnings enough time. And when i want to get a player into EvE and tell him to train one month only learnings to be effectiv he Stop downloading the game. Ppl like instant aktion. Why buy a month for testing a game when you need to skill learnings with no game effekt directly to your char ? But thats an old discussion, learnings 4 the borring.. Were is it writen you only can train those skills first? IMO you should train the basic ones to lvl 3 or 4 depending on your patience level. Than get yourself a nice battlcruiser or even battleship setup and run missions while letting the rest finish. Its what I did and it worked out pretty good. Those skills save you allot of time later on, something a three day old character would know nothing about (ashley ro). If you get a chance download EVEMON (from battleclinic.com) and plan you skills out for fun for 6 months, it will tell you which learning skills will save you time and which won't. Further you plan out, the more you gain from those learning skills. I wish they would release those elite learning skills, would allow a 6 month player to grow up threw the ranks more, but still be keeping a good distance from a 3 year old player.
Salah22 Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.16 00:19:00 - [8] Quote: Amen. Learning skills are a terrible game mechanic. I'm done with it but I can't imagine how it helps the game in any way. Huh? I'll tell you how. There are 2-3 year old players, and there are the new players. Without the learning skills, there will always be a HUGE gap between older players and newer players. They will not be able to compete fairly on the same level. If you introduce a new set of learning skills each couple of years, the newbies will catch with the veterans faster. You will arge that the veterans will learn the new learning skills too. But there is a factor of usefulness vs total skills that dampens that. If you can learn to fly an advanced ship in 3 months instead of 6, then that's 3 months where you start to compete with the older players. The older player will not benefit directly from the new learning skills since he can already fly that class of ship. But the new player will. Additionally the older player can learn more skills and gain diversity, which he deserves after all. - - - - - - - - - - - I guess we were all guilty, in a way. We all shot bob, we all skinned him, and we all got a complimentary bumper sticker that said, "I helped skin Bob"
Dilandil Ma'al	Posted - 2006.10.16 01:19:00 - [9] Originally by: Salah22 Quote: Amen. Learning skills are a terrible game mechanic. I'm done with it but I can't imagine how it helps the game in any way. Huh? I'll tell you how. There are 2-3 year old players, and there are the new players. Without the learning skills, there will always be a HUGE gap between older players and newer players. They will not be able to compete fairly on the same level. If you introduce a new set of learning skills each couple of years, the newbies will catch with the veterans faster. You will arge that the veterans will learn the new learning skills too. But there is a factor of usefulness vs total skills that dampens that. If you can learn to fly an advanced ship in 3 months instead of 6, then that's 3 months where you start to compete with the older players. The older player will not benefit directly from the new learning skills since he can already fly that class of ship. But the new player will. Additionally the older player can learn more skills and gain diversity, which he deserves after all. that make perfect sense. but still the learning skills add a lot of training time that makes things worse for new players. periodic, automatic attribute increments that are also applied to new players would solve both problems, but that's probably not a very realistic idea
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.16 01:46:00 - [10] Originally by: Salah22 You will arge that the veterans will learn the new learning skills too. But there is a factor of usefulness vs total skills that dampens that. Ermm...that is nonsense. When a noob and a vet start the learning skills at the same time they will get exactly the same benefit from them and will take exactly the same time to pay off. If anything the learning skills (and implants) are increasing and not decreasing the SP gap between vets and noobs. The vets have already trained the learning skills and have aquired implants. The noob first has to do the time grind for the learning skills and the money grind for the implants to get the same SP growth. ------------------------------------- Overexeggerated & simplified example: Without learning skills a noob gets 1 mil sp/month, with learning skills and implants a vet gets 2 mil sp/month. Noob spends his first two months training the learning skilsl and getting implants. After 2 months the noob get's 2 mil/month, too. But: during these 2 months the vet got 4 mil SPs while the noob got only 2 mil SPs. The noob hasn't catched up with the vet, but in fact has fallen further behind. The only thing what the learning skills has achieved for him is that he keeps the same distance behind the vet instead of falling continously further behind. ------------------------------------- Now, you might claim that the vet won't learn these "new" learning skills I would ask you "why not?". CCP will (and is) constantly introducing new "normal" skills, nevermind that it takes like 20 years to max all current skills in the game. You won't run out of skilsl to train anytime soon. And, as said, the time for learning skills to pay off is the same if you have 0 SPs or 20 mil SPs. There is just as much reason for a vet to train learning skilsl as for a noob. In fact, vets are usually not as hard pressed to learn skills, so can switch to new learning skills right away, while noobs do have to get some core skills first because they can focus on learning skills.
Salah22 Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:03:00 - [11] Quote: Ermm...that is nonsense. It is making sens, and I will explain why. You are thinking in terms of total SP, this is the problem. A newb will not start playing and think "I want more SP damn it!!". A newb will start the game and wants to fly his (for example) command ship. A learning skill option that will let him fly that ship in 2 months instead of 6 is great!! It is an awesome improvement for him. Now take the veteran, 2 years old player that get those same learning skills. By the time he was playing, he probably can fly all the things he desires to fly. The extra learning speed just mean more SP and character diversity. It is not as much of a "jump forward" as the newb that can fly advanced cruisers/BCs. This is what I meant by "factor of usefulness vs total SP". Some people are against learning skills because they don't want to learn them. If you don't like to waste time learning skills, think for a second if you did not even have the option to learn them faster! IMHO all arguments against learning skills are wrong and very short sighted. - - - - - - - - - - - CCP - Give us more time saving features please.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:26:00 - [12] Exept it does not work this way. You need about 7 months to get even with the invested SPs from learning (assuming lvl 4 in the advanced). If you really want to get into that t2 ship AFAP you will be faster with training basic learnings to lvl 4 and ignore the advanced ones till later. They are more of an longterm investement (and as such benefit older players more). It's not that the effects of learning skills are bad, but their concept. They do not add anything to the game in terms of diversity and fun, but are a boring grind/timesink. CCP could achieve the same effect by other means than "forcing" new players to spend 2 of their first 3-4 months with the learning grind if they want to get the most effecient longterm SP growth. For example "Jovian genetic research giving every capsuleer +1 to all attributes every 4 month since EvE started". (Note "eve started" and not "player born". A player "born" now would get an identical attribute bonus than a player who started in 2003.)
Za Po Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.16 08:07:00 - [13] Originally by: Aramendel Exept it does not work this way. You need about 7 months to get even with the invested SPs from learning (assuming lvl 4 in the advanced). If you really want to get into that t2 ship AFAP you will be faster with training basic learnings to lvl 4 and ignore the advanced ones till later. They are more of an longterm investement (and as such benefit older players more). QFT. Learning skills make you get into your target ship later, not earlier.
Yeggstry Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.16 08:21:00 - [14] From what I remember boosters are coming out in one of the Kali patches. I'd wait and see what happens for these :)
Miri Tirzan Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.16 11:00:00 - [15] Originally by: Dilandil Ma'al periodic, automatic attribute increments that are also applied to new players would solve both problems, but that's probably not a very realistic idea Your right, it is not realistic to say because your new you get the skip the time it takes to have the same skill levels as the vets do. svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
Presidente Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.16 17:40:00 - [16] [Advanced] learning skills will take affect over a long skill queue. If you have set up a long skill plan with EVEMon you will save lots of days at the end. For a noob it's hard to accept that in the beginning because you don't want +waste½ time for Learning only. But once they are skilled it will boost your several months skill queue dramatically. I also use +3 implants. Without them my skill plan needs 182 days. With them 161 days. Overall I save 20d 17h actually. Hey, that's a full months I will save. So Learning skills are nice because they will result a special random skilling of all clones. Means: some clones get things faster in the beginning and some others get important skills faster at the end. It's a nice feature IMO. Presidente
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.17 21:40:00 - [17] Originally by: Yeggstry From what I remember boosters are coming out in one of the Kali patches. I'd wait and see what happens for these :) They only plan to introduce combat boosters. Meaning some which boost your armor, resistances, damage, stuff like that. There will be no boosters which effect attributes or general learning speed (and, yes, I know that some early versions are in the game files. There are also cap power relays II in them - it does not mean they will be in game anytime soon).
Lea Re Caldari CAPITAL TRUST FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.17 21:59:00 - [18] and why are learning skills more useful to noobs ? to make the long story very short... pilot with lvl4 battleship can beat lvl5 bs depending on tactic/setup do the rest of thinking yourself besides, new toons are encouraged to specialize and knowing all the requirements of t2 ships or capital ships, can get there pretty fast. and if you consider playing eve for a whil longer than a few months... learning skills ARE useful
Vasiliyan PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2006.10.17 22:36:00 - [19] Originally by: Lea Re and if you consider playing eve for a whil longer than a few months... learning skills ARE useful Well, yes, but they're also a timesink and a source of frustration for people. New characters should start with a few levels of learning skills TBH.
Roama Kyonoke Pit Bar n Grill	Posted - 2006.10.18 12:52:00 - [20] Originally by: Salah22 [ I'll tell you how. There are 2-3 year old players, and there are the new players. Without the learning skills, there will always be a HUGE gap between older players and newer players. They will not be able to compete fairly on the same level. Its not a race, give them the time the veterans has done and they will "compete" more evenly.
Inen Minmatar OLE Mining Corp Miners With Attitude	Posted - 2006.10.18 18:05:00 - [21] I would like to get rid of learning skills altogether, give all players a +10 attribute boost (basic learning + advanced learning), and give an SP refund to any players who did train the learning skills (this SP refund does not hinge on the primary / secondary of the learning skill, it is SP that can be put into any skill tree). Now new players can come in and train for that ship even faster and vets still get their attribute boost. Wishful thinking though.
JustBlaze	Posted - 2006.10.20 11:39:00 - [22] without learning skills: cruiser 5 37 days (depending on base) With learning skills: cruiser 5 21 days (depending on base) right it takes 2 months of training MAX for learning skills. now if you do 5 lvl 5 skills it will take about 2 months off. meaning just 5 rank 5 lvl 5 skills earnins back your time spent.
Vincent Almasy	Posted - 2006.10.20 13:45:00 - [23] the thing with learning skill is one easy thing, they try for all or nothing, just get the first class learning skills to lets say 3 or to 4 then you set them on over nights then you stop, now start going into what you want with eve and starts to try out new things, once you find what you want and settle to start to build those skills, once those skills get yp to 4 then you would return to learning skills in those areas and then adv learning to 3 or 4 to speed up the skill training once again. when you change from 4 to 5 in adv learning would be for some of the higher ranked skill to be changed form 4 to 5, aswell as in this time you have good base skills so you can fight more easily while you are training your learning skills aswell as using that new money to buy good implants, base +3s. It's not that fact of the learning skills but the order of the learning skills and the fact of when to train the learning skills is key. The three first learning skills you work in are int, mem and learning, to get the most out of your learning boosts. This may shave off only a few minutes at first but later hours will be shaved off and maybe a day or two as things go on just inside the learning skill area. You don't see the learning affect really of other skills till the change of 4 to 5 or with high ranked skills.
Derrios Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.20 18:54:00 - [24] Originally by: Ashley Ro Originally by: Mealka Helping you to learn skills faster ?! But for what reason ? Skills take even with learnings enough time. And when i want to get a player into EvE and tell him to train one month only learnings to be effectiv he Stop downloading the game. Ppl like instant aktion. Why buy a month for testing a game when you need to skill learnings with no game effekt directly to your char ? But thats an old discussion, learnings 4 the borring.. truth. lost a lot of people I got into the game due to this =( ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: wierchas noobhunter hmm blowing ascn carebears in empire ? can i join ?
Lubricity	Posted - 2006.10.20 19:06:00 - [25] Originally by: Inen I would like to get rid of learning skills altogether, give all players a +10 attribute boost (basic learning + advanced learning), and give an SP refund to any players who did train the learning skills (this SP refund does not hinge on the primary / secondary of the learning skill, it is SP that can be put into any skill tree). Now new players can come in and train for that ship even faster and vets still get their attribute boost. Wishful thinking though. Better than not thinking at all. I'd like to see something similar to that as well, like others I've had a hard time getting friends to pick up eve just b/c of the learning skills alone. Why spend 1-2 months paying for an account you can't play when you can go play wow and reach the end game in as much time?
Enotz Amarr Terminus Est Incorporated	Posted - 2006.10.20 20:44:00 - [26] Originally by: Lubricity Originally by: Inen I would like to get rid of learning skills altogether, give all players a +10 attribute boost (basic learning + advanced learning), and give an SP refund to any players who did train the learning skills (this SP refund does not hinge on the primary / secondary of the learning skill, it is SP that can be put into any skill tree). Now new players can come in and train for that ship even faster and vets still get their attribute boost. Wishful thinking though. Better than not thinking at all. I'd like to see something similar to that as well, like others I've had a hard time getting friends to pick up eve just b/c of the learning skills alone. Why spend 1-2 months paying for an account you can't play when you can go play wow and reach the end game in as much time? This could work, so long as they refund all the isk we spent on skill books too.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.20 21:25:00 - [27] For a total of 25 mil? You can make as much in 2 afternoons running lvl3s or 0.0 ratting...
Vincent Almasy	Posted - 2006.10.21 00:25:00 - [28] Edited by: Vincent Almasy on 21/10/2006 00:27:40 ....If your going to give everyone the +10 form the larning skills is pointless, people just need to learn when to train learning skills.. OK? It's like just getting a T1 frigate and training to use T2 large weapons. You will need them in the future yes but you don't need to max trian your skills for them from the start. There is a thing call over specialization which people seem to fall for with learning skills and other people arn't helping, for most of your game till a bit after your first BC learning skills to +4 only is enough. A person with maxed learning skills may have greater learning rate but all of his money will be going into buying those adv learning books with a crappy ship while someone who takes a more relaxed view to learning training can teast out many fields and start to stock pile funds for implants for instant +3 aswell as to buy the learning books, and all while it's bringing in loads of money. The one who is more relaxed may learn slower for a while in the short run but he gains much more combat experience that the max learning player wouldn't have aswell as the more relaxed would be in a BC. How does this plan sound? EDIT : I have one thing tho this goes beyond just the learning skills. The player who took his time also would know 'how' to use the skills and the value of the other skills while the other player still has to learn how to play.
Zoltaris COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.10.21 14:15:00 - [29] Thing is, the 1st year (or so) there wasn't adv. learning skills and no implants, so we (olds chars) took much longer to train skills, so the new learning skills helped more new chars than us Here's an exemple of what i mean: 1st year: Player 1 train 10m SP Player 2 don't play Player 3 don't play 2nd year: Player 1 train 15m SP (25m Total) Player 2 train 15m SP (15m Total) Player 3 don't play 3rd year: Player 1 train 20m SP (45m Total) Player 2 train 20m SP (35m Total) Player 3 train 20m SP (20m Total) In 1 year of training, player 3 made almost as much SP as it took 2 years for player 1 to get But training learning skills is disliked by A LOT of players and a big turnoff for noobs, so the best solution would be, as said somewhere above, to give ALL PLAYERS, a few attributes points to add permanently every year But then again, while i wouldn't mind much, that might anger some of the veteran players... ----- > Order Falcon & Pilgrim
Salah22 Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.22 03:43:00 - [30] Edited by: Salah22 on 22/10/2006 03:45:19 Noobs that hate learning skills are being just that, newbs. It is like short term planning compared to long term planning. People want instand reward. That's ok. But when you want instand reward, AND want to stop other people from planning long term (training learning skills) that's just stupid. It's like if people who drop out of school and start working for McDo because they want to have cash and drive cars NOW wanted ALSO to stop other people from going to university and getting better jobs. If you don't like learning skills, don't train them. Let the people who like them use them. There, problem solved. - - - - - - - - - - - CCP - Give us more time saving features please.

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.