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Zixxa
   |
Posted - 2006.10.16 09:28:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Tasty Burger
You guys realize that torpedos, rockets and such do high damage, at ranges that are comparable to long-range turrets with medium-range ammo? AND you don't need to use a mwd to do it?
Lesson:
1) Missile hit is delayed.
It is lower already low DPS of Raven. It is important in mass PvP.
It removes Raven from the fleet battle(primary will be dead before Raven cruises hit target)
2) DPS of cruise missile is lawful. Just lawful.
3) Fitting t2 torp Raven is extremely difficult. Anyway t2 torp raben is dead in solo.
4) MWDing ship is invulnerable to any kind of missiles.
5) There is no tier3 missile BS.
6) There is no good missile command ships.
Quote:
One launcher to win them all.
One statement and we see best *tard of the thread. Congratulations.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.16 09:41:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 16/10/2006 09:46:33
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 16/10/2006 08:43:08
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
This kind of post should be banned from forums. It is like discussing religions.
Thats the most inaccurate statement from you yet, Jenny...
Discussing game balance isnt anywhere close to discussing religion. You just dont want to hear more of the missile whine, because you are tired of it. But the forums are for discussing the game, you know...
The discussion is always circular so why is it not like discussing religion? Missiles are fine as they are, ignore T2 ammos. If you nerf missiles further, missiles are totally useless unless you fit T2 ammos. Why not fly Caldari if you think they are good and missiles are overpowered? Missiles have their role. Hybrids have their role. Caldari is a support race. What they fit depend on what their gang fit. To be honest, I prefer hybrids anytime to missiles but depending on gang setup.
If you really like to balance the game as you claim you do, you should be discussing how to change T2 ammos.
---------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
Pax Caldaria. |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 09:57:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 16/10/2006 09:42:40
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 16/10/2006 08:43:08
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
This kind of post should be banned from forums. It is like discussing religions.
Thats the most inaccurate statement from you yet, Jenny...
Discussing game balance isnt anywhere close to discussing religion. You just dont want to hear more of the missile whine, because you are tired of it. But the forums are for discussing the game, you know...
The discussion is always circular so why is it not like discussing religion? Missiles are fine as they are, ignore T2 ammos. If you nerf missiles further, missiles are totally useless unless you fit T2 ammos. Why not fly Caldari if you think they are good and missiles are overpowered? Missiles have their role. Hybrids have their role. Caldari is a support race. What they fit depend on what their gang fit. To be honest, I prefer hybrids anytime to missiles but depending on gang setup.
If you really like to balance the game as you claim you do, you should be discussing how to nerf T2 ammos.
Why isnt it like religion? Because here you can support your arguments with facts. I see you type "missiles are fine" all the time, but you never make a good argument why you think they are. Instead you tell people to fly Caldari if missiles are so good...I want to fly my own race, but be competetive. Good game balance allows that to happen.
I dont understand how you can think missiles are balanced since they dont have any real drawbacks, except the initial 4-5 second delay before the cruise missiles start hitting at 20-25 km. Please dont bring up that missiles are bad at sniping. We know. Does that mean that they should be the best choice in every other situation? I dont think so.
And before you start saying that missiles hit for less damage when the target moves very fast, well, turrets dont hit them at all.
Have a look at artillery damage vs missiles. Not even the 1400 tech 2 artillery have higher damage than normal t1 cruise missiles. This is balanced because of the alpha strike and instant damage? I dont know. And artillery constantly hit in the falloff range, which means reduced damage. Missiles hit for full damage.
I dont know. Maybe im blind, but I just cant see the disadvantages of missiles. If there was a armor tanked ship with 6 missile launchers, nobody would ever fly anything else for solo pvp.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Zixxa
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 10:23:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Because here you can support your arguments with facts.
To support arguments with facts you have to know facts. You do not.
Quote:
I want to fly my own race, but be competetive. Good game balance allows that to happen.
You are damned noob if you do not understand that you are Caldari.
Quote:
I dont understand
You are damned noob! RTFM!
Quote:
how you can think missiles are balanced since they dont have any real drawbacks, except the initial 4-5 second delay before the cruise missiles start hitting at 20-25 km.
1. Low dps. Just low
2. In fleet battle target will be dead BEFORE your cruise missile REACH the target.
3. MWDing ships are invulnerable to missile.
Quote:
And before you start saying that missiles hit for less damage when the target moves very fast, well, turrets dont hit them at all.
RTFM!
Quote:
Maybe im blind,
No you do not blind.
Quote:
but I just cant see the disadvantages of missiles.
Yes, you are not Einstein.
Quote:
If there was a armor tanked ship with 6 missile launchers, nobody would ever fly anything else for solo pvp.
Ha-ha-ha! Solo pvp! With 6 missile launchers! I am scared!
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
Out Siders
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.16 10:36:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Nyxus
And the fact that Javs go 100km+ is just silly.
It could also be argused that a cruiser such as Arbitrator can *instant* hit at 105km in a genuine pvp setup is also silly - but just because it can be done does not mean it is overpowered.
There are 2 issues here
1. Raven spams javs at 100-200km - target warps out no problem. Thats why you just dont see raven solo kills from 100km+ - the loser simply warps out or goes afk or lags
2. Tackler holds down target while raven spams at 100-200km. Nothing wrong with that.
---
Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour
FREE |
Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 10:38:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Zixxa
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Because here you can support your arguments with facts.
To support arguments with facts you have to know facts. You do not.
Quote:
I want to fly my own race, but be competetive. Good game balance allows that to happen.
You are damned noob if you do not understand that you are Caldari.
Quote:
I dont understand
You are damned noob! RTFM!
Quote:
how you can think missiles are balanced since they dont have any real drawbacks, except the initial 4-5 second delay before the cruise missiles start hitting at 20-25 km.
1. Low dps. Just low
2. In fleet battle target will be dead BEFORE your cruise missile REACH the target.
3. MWDing ships are invulnerable to missile.
Quote:
And before you start saying that missiles hit for less damage when the target moves very fast, well, turrets dont hit them at all.
RTFM!
Quote:
Maybe im blind,
No you do not blind.
Quote:
but I just cant see the disadvantages of missiles.
Yes, you are not Einstein.
Quote:
If there was a armor tanked ship with 6 missile launchers, nobody would ever fly anything else for solo pvp.
Ha-ha-ha! Solo pvp! With 6 missile launchers! I am scared!
Zixxa, go away and stop trolling. You annoy me so much that I must answer even though it's against my better knowing not to feed trolls. It's going to be snide and contemptous.
"Jim doesn't support his arguements"
He does. I've never seen you do, though. Are you sure you aren't reading your own posts?
"Jim is a noob"
Er... That is quite the convincing argument. Not.
"RTFM"
Have you read the ******* manual? I have it lying right next to me, do you know how out of date it is? RTFM is the ONE computer clichT that even a 2 week old player learn doesn't work in EVE.
"1. Low dps. Just low
2. In fleet battle target will be dead BEFORE your cruise missile REACH the target.
3. MWDing ships are invulnerable to missile."
1. This is HIGHLY dependant on what ship class we are talking about. The smaller they are the more this statement is a myth.
2. My Dominix has a hell of a lot longer time-to-damage in fleet battles, but you don't see me trying to make it do what it clearly can't.
3. False. I won't even argue here, it's just plain false.
"RTFM!"
Dude, just stop using this expression. There is no manual in EVE.
"No you do not blind"
Hmm. I usually don't comment on grammar, and I won't do it now, either.
"Yes, you are not Einstein"
Neither are you. Einstein's dead and buried since 1955.
"Solo PvP"
Had one of my corp mates log in to a 5-ship gate camp in his gang Raven (wasn't even set up for solo PvP). He did a little n00b mistakes and the Tempest survived with 25% hull left. He did kill the other guys, who were in BCs or smaller, before he died. Not that anectdotes matter.
What I'm saying here is that you are looking at the damage output, thinking with your ****, and realizing that the other ships' are larger than yours. Then you go on the forums and say it can't be done.
Typical stupidity, did you even try?
-
Three years old |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 10:42:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 16/10/2006 10:42:20
@ Jim.
Why should time be wasted to run maths on the bloody obvious? Missiles have four kinds of damage and the damage varies on the target signature size and speed. You say guns do not hit at all when target moves very fast. Missiles hit but do 0.3 damage when people speed tank. If you consider that a hit, I can not say anything.
If your facts on game balancing are based on graphs with many assumptions like discounting target resistance, HP longevity in combat, guns generally do more damage than missiles, whatever, I rather not commit myself to wholly believe in those illusions. The DPS graphs give ideas on ideal ship performances in ideal situations but I do not think they should be used to describe situations generally unless your intention is about discussing selective balancing/nerfing.
Strictly discussing the OP's proposal of nerfing missiles. OP is suggesting changing missile ammos to turret ammos. Different ammos, different range, different speed, different damage, different explosive radius idea is an interesting which I do not recall disagreeing except thread turns into guns vs missiles whine. Siege and cruise launchers need changing though. This idea could make missiles as strong as turrets.
---------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
Pax Caldaria. |
Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 10:43:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: Nyxus
And the fact that Javs go 100km+ is just silly.
It could also be argused that a cruiser such as Arbitrator can *instant* hit at 105km in a genuine pvp setup is also silly - but just because it can be done does not mean it is overpowered.
There are 2 issues here
1. Raven spams javs at 100-200km - target warps out no problem. Thats why you just dont see raven solo kills from 100km+ - the loser simply warps out or goes afk or lags
2. Tackler holds down target while raven spams at 100-200km. Nothing wrong with that.
Reg. situation 2: there is something wrong here. He's going close range damage, that is typically found at sub-50km mark, at extreme range (150km or more). That it isn't instantly done is not really and excuse for this.
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Three years old |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 10:56:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
@ Jim.
Why should time be wasted to run maths on the bloody obvious? Missiles have four kinds of damage and the damage varies on the target signature size and speed. You say guns do not hit at all when target moves very fast. Missiles hit but do 0.3 damage when people speed tank. If you consider that a hit, I can not say anything.
Speed tanking... well, the only ship that can do that with any success is basicly the crow, since it can spam missiles while going at 6000 m/s. The other fast ships like the Vagabond cant track at those speeds, and will then miss. Seems to me that you are using the crow in that 0.3 damage example? Anyway, 0.3 damage is like a miss, and turrets will miss that ship too. You know as well as I do that neither the speed tanking argument or the initial dps delay matters vs the vast majority of ships and situations.
I think you are grabbing straws here...
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Lord WarATron
Amarr
Out Siders
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 11:03:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 16/10/2006 11:04:12
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 16/10/2006 11:03:23
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: Nyxus
And the fact that Javs go 100km+ is just silly.
It could also be argused that a cruiser such as Arbitrator can *instant* hit at 105km in a genuine pvp setup is also silly - but just because it can be done does not mean it is overpowered.
There are 2 issues here
1. Raven spams javs at 100-200km - target warps out no problem. Thats why you just dont see raven solo kills from 100km+ - the loser simply warps out or goes afk or lags
2. Tackler holds down target while raven spams at 100-200km. Nothing wrong with that.
Reg. situation 2: there is something wrong here. He's going close range damage, that is typically found at sub-50km mark, at extreme range (150km or more). That it isn't instantly done is not really and excuse for this.
I was stating that missiles at 100-200km are waste of ammo unless you have tackler. Even then it all depends on the situation - perhaps the raven suspects a trap and wants to keep distance when a few noob alts 50k isk frigs tackle the target. Anyhow the point is clear - missiles at 100km+ is viable baised on situation.
Example - ravens spamming javs to shoot a hostile POS at 200km whilst avoiding guns.
---
Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour
FREE |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 11:04:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
@ Jim.
Why should time be wasted to run maths on the bloody obvious? Missiles have four kinds of damage and the damage varies on the target signature size and speed. You say guns do not hit at all when target moves very fast. Missiles hit but do 0.3 damage when people speed tank. If you consider that a hit, I can not say anything.
Speed tanking... well, the only ship that can do that with any success is basicly the crow, since it can spam missiles while going at 6000 m/s. The other fast ships like the Vagabond cant track at those speeds, and will then miss. Seems to me that you are using the crow in that 0.3 damage example? Anyway, 0.3 damage is like a miss, and turrets will miss that ship too. You know as well as I do that neither the speed tanking argument or the initial dps delay matters vs the vast majority of ships and situations.
I think you are grabbing straws here...
That was actually a Vagabond. 
---------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
Pax Caldaria. |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 11:07:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
That was actually a Vagabond.
One that was running away then, because they cant do damage at those speeds. You know im right in my arguments here. Speed tanking doesnt really work for most ships, so why is it brought up again and again?
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 11:38:00 -
[73]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 16/10/2006 11:42:39
Well if they ever decide to nerf Javelin range they'd need to do away with the speed penalty.
A ship that can only hit at 50km while moving at 40m/s is of no use what so ever. It's a very delicately balanced ammo currently. Nerf it too much and you cripple torpedo users completely. That's always been the Caldari trait, hit at range while your ship moves like a brick.
No-one will even bother using torps for anything other than npc'ing following a nerf like this. Tech I torpedoes are so hopeless in pvp it isn't funny and Rage, well, the less said about Rage the better.
If they nerf Javelin there needs to be a slightly higher damage, longer range version of Fury cruise missile. You can't completely nerf the Ravens already poor ability to fight battleships at range, thats just silly.
Originally by: anonymous
If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
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Zixxa
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 11:44:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Ithildin
"Jim doesn't support his arguements"
He does. Originally by: Ithildin
You lie.
Originally by: Ithildin
I've never seen you do, though.
You lie. Or you are blind.
Quote:
"Jim is a noob"
Er... That is quite the convincing argument. Not.
Good argument when we are talking about PvP, where missile ships are suxx in most cases.
Quote:
"RTFM"
Have you read the ******* manual?
Would you like to check?
Quote:
"1. Low dps. Just low
2. In fleet battle target will be dead BEFORE your cruise missile REACH the target.
3. MWDing ships are invulnerable to missile."
1. This is HIGHLY dependant on what ship class we are talking about. The smaller they are the more this statement is a myth.
2. My Dominix has a hell of a lot longer time-to-damage in fleet battles, but you don't see me trying to make it do what it clearly can't.
3. False. I won't even argue here, it's just plain false.
1. Escpecially for blind people. Missile ships have LOOOOOOOOW dps. Read and remember.
2. Hmm. Which battles are speaking about, dude? Take last movie from the BoB. Looks what is fleet battle. Lock BS, boom, pod. How helpful here Dominix or Raven?
3. RTFM, dude! RTFM. Very helpful for such "pvpers as you"
Quote:
"RTFM!"
Dude, just stop using this expression. There is no manual in EVE.
Missile guide specially created for noobs to explain missile mechanics. Looks that noobs(as you) decided to troll in forums instead of careful learning this helpful and useful tool.
Quote:
"No you do not blind"
Hmm. I usually don't comment on grammar, and I won't do it now, either.
Thanks. Have real problems with grammar. "No, you are not blind."
Quote:
"Solo PvP"
Had one of my corp mates log in to a 5-ship gate camp in his gang Raven (wasn't even set up for solo PvP). He did a little n00b mistakes and the Tempest survived with 25% hull left. He did kill the other guys, who were in BCs or smaller, before he died. Not that anectdotes matter.
So since this time you are using solo Raven to kill gate camp? Great idea.
Quote:
Typical stupidity, did you even try?
RTFM! But it may be too complicated for your brain...
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Zixxa
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 11:48:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Speed tanking... well, the only ship that can do that with any success is basicly the crow, since it can spam missiles while going at 6000 m/s.
Small, poor noob. Do you know how much damage t2 javelin raven is doing to vagabond flying 3000+ m/sec? Ever heard about nanophoons?
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welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2006.10.16 11:51:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Zixxa
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Speed tanking... well, the only ship that can do that with any success is basicly the crow, since it can spam missiles while going at 6000 m/s.
Small, poor noob. Do you know how much damage t2 javelin raven is doing to vagabond flying 3000+ m/sec? Ever heard about nanophoons?
As wrong as Jim is about Caldari ships :P theres no need to be completely unpleasant about it.
Originally by: anonymous
If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
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Roxanna Kell
BURN EDEN
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 12:04:00 -
[77]
We cant do instant damage. we cant do as much dps as gun boats on best range.
you really want all the weapons to be the same? FFS train caladari if you want missiles
Quote:
"Don't touch the red button!"
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 12:06:00 -
[78]
Originally by: welsh wizard
As wrong as Jim is about Caldari ships :P theres no need to be completely unpleasant about it.
Im not convinced im wrong... because the arguments you guys use dont hold water. :) Oh well, I dont think any changes will come from this thread anyway. Moving on. :)
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
daPing
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 12:24:00 -
[79]
I don't think there's much issue with missiles as it currently stands - their main drawback is that they only do 1 type of damage, whereas ammo does a variety.
I think the issue here is actually to do with reloading / ammo switching*. I'd very much like to see turret loading times based upon their size - therefore small guns could switch ammo in, say, 4 seconds, whereas the largest guns would take, say, 12 seconds. This would enable gun users to switch between long & short range ammo quicker.
I don't know where missile bay reloading would sit, but I'd suggest towards the the longer end.
* - any chance of a 'change all' option on ammo / missiles? (like the reload all).
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.10.16 12:25:00 -
[80]
Originally by: welsh wizard
Small, poor noob. Do you know how much damage t2 javelin raven is doing to vagabond flying 3000+ m/sec? Ever heard about nanophoons?
As wrong as Jim is about Caldari ships :P theres no need to be completely unpleasant about it.
What is wrong? At 3000+ msec Vaga could tank almost all damage from Javelins.
Nanophoon cannot fly usually 3000 msec, but 2500+ is possible, and it will reduce damage to half or one third(do not remember precisecy). These guys repeating as parrots "missiles are ubewtfrpwn" never been in the 0 space, never saw real enemy, never met real gang, never heard about combined forces. Only two things they know about Eve are missile have no tracking, missile could do any type of damage.
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Lucian Corvinus
Gallente
Expert Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.16 12:31:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Im not convinced im wrong... because the arguments you guys use dont hold water. :) Oh well, I dont think any changes will come from this thread anyway. Moving on. :)
And that's one of the main problems with this debate about missiles vs. turrets. Turret users do not want to acknowledge the arguments coming from missile users and vice versa..
.. I'm just glad the decission is up to TUX and not the biased people like the OP..
.. just my iskies.
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Marjatta Kelohonka
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Posted - 2006.10.16 12:47:00 -
[82]
"The grass is allways greener on the other side of the fence"
Every poster in these forums are leaning towards their own combat ability. There is no universal right and wrong that would counter every situation in this game.
Therefore ppl that only say "Missiles are fine" are as wrong as ppl that say "Missiles need nerf".
Wanting to have a game that is balanced is what these posts are for. How else can you get you voice heard?
Keep the conversation clean and please stop trolling. It really doesn't do anyone any good to troll.
Artificial Intelligence is No Match for Natural Stupidity |
Marjatta Kelohonka
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 13:08:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Marjatta Kelohonka on 16/10/2006 13:09:37
In my opinion the balance is not fine between launcers and guns.
According to the missile supporters there are mainly 2 problems with missiles:
1. delay before damage
2. no viable sniping method
I agree that those are viable problems but then again you also often seem to say that you don't want to see every race to be the same. Kinda odd? Seems to me that you want the advantages of guns but don't want guns to have the advantages of lauchers.
I don't want to see that the way launchers work would be changed. I don't wan't to see that the way guns work would be changed either. The thing I would like to see changed is ammo and missiles.
1. More diversity in damagetypes you can deal with ammo.(Laser lenses included ofc.)
2. some kind of range penalty and bonus to the damage. This would simulate the optimal range of guns.
Artificial Intelligence is No Match for Natural Stupidity |
Hayabusa Fury
Caldari
Wu-Tang Financial
Mordus Angels
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 13:12:00 -
[84]
Scenerio 1: Your firing missles and realize you are using the wrong damage type. So you have to stop firing to switch. at least a 5-7 seconf cool down. Then a 10 second switch ammo time. Then fire again and wait for flight time before first hit. Now figure this again and again as you fight shield and amour tanks. Then also remember as you switch from a getting through shields to armour and all resists change. SO much DPS lost it better hit.
Don't confuse hitting 100% with doing 100% damage. They are not the same.
Scenerio 2: Making sure you have all the damage types in your cargo and that you have enough of each to get through your targets. What if you run out of, or did not bring a particular damage type? Being able to do only one kind of damage also means you may be stuck with the absolute wrong type of missle type.
Now you mentioned damage charts. I have never seen one where missles out damage turrets. If you compare a single shot to a single missle yes it appears unbalanced. But it is all about damage over time. DPS is what makes missles and turrets balanced.If you are not comparing DPS then you are not comparing apples to apples.
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"I can not recall the number of times my superior intellect has got me knee deep in ****!" --Harely Hayes |
Chain Gang
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 13:13:00 -
[85]
Give Caldari "instant damage" like Rails, Projectiles and lasers and then maybe I will
listen to you ....
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Thecle Vifargent
GandY Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 13:20:00 -
[86]
Did you ever tried to hit a frigate orbiting 500m to you with a cruise missile and watch your missile go *poof* trying to turn on itself to hit it ?
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Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 13:31:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Chain Gang
Give Caldari "instant damage" like Rails, Projectiles and lasers and then maybe I will
listen to you ....
Caldari already have these. Railguns, that is. They've got instant-damage ships that has adequate bonuses to railguns (however, it can be argued that particulary the Ferox and Moa hulls are lacking in NUMBER of turrets.)
-
Three years old |
Lucian Corvinus
Gallente
Expert Systems
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 13:35:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Marjatta Kelohonka
Edited by: Marjatta Kelohonka on 16/10/2006 13:09:37
In my opinion the balance is not fine between launcers and guns.
According to the missile supporters there are mainly 2 problems with missiles:
1. delay before damage
2. no viable sniping method
I agree that those are viable problems but then again you also often seem to say that you don't want to see every race to be the same. Kinda odd? Seems to me that you want the advantages of guns but don't want guns to have the advantages of lauchers.
I don't want to see that the way launchers work would be changed. I don't wan't to see that the way guns work would be changed either. The thing I would like to see changed is ammo and missiles.
1. More diversity in damagetypes you can deal with ammo.(Laser lenses included ofc.)
2. some kind of range penalty and bonus to the damage. This would simulate the optimal range of guns.
Yo are talking about not wanting to turn missiles into guns and vice versa, and then you start talking about simulating optimal range with missiles.
Making such a freaky change to missile ammo will infact change the way missiles work. It would be the same as asking for a velocity reduction to turret ammo, "matrix style" to "simulate" delayed impact.
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Taram Caldar
Caldari
Acheron Vanguard Armada
The Shadow Ascension
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 13:56:00 -
[89]
Originally by: daPing
I don't think there's much issue with missiles as it currently stands - their main drawback is that they only do 1 type of damage, whereas ammo does a variety.
I think the issue here is actually to do with reloading / ammo switching*. I'd very much like to see turret loading times based upon their size - therefore small guns could switch ammo in, say, 4 seconds, whereas the largest guns would take, say, 12 seconds. This would enable gun users to switch between long & short range ammo quicker.
I don't know where missile bay reloading would sit, but I'd suggest towards the the longer end.
* - any chance of a 'change all' option on ammo / missiles? (like the reload all).
Dunno about torps or cruise (I don't have a BS yet so I don't use them) but for heavies assaults and standards missile loading times are FAR longer than comparable guns. FAR longer. I reload a railgun in almost half the time it takes to load a like-sized launcher.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.16 15:52:00 -
[90]
Zixxa is just a troll. Just ignore. Im not saying it as flamebait. Its simply what I recommend, because there is no way you can have a decent discussion with one.
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