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EwokPoacher Nubs. Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:18:00 - [1] I've heard rumors that stabs are getting nerfed with the latest Kali patch. I haven't read anything about it and was wondering if someone could point me to either an official post or something to make it concrete. I pray to God they nerf them, so first person that points me to an official post or link gets 5mil isk, because you would make my year complete.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:27:00 - [2] Download and watch the EVETV alliance covereage. They cover it there. Plz send me 5mil isk. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:29:00 - [3] Along with the Drake, this is the thing I'm most looking forward to in Kali. The proposed nerf still isn't severe enough though (imo). Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
EwokPoacher Nubs. Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:29:00 - [4] Edited by: EwokPoacher on 16/10/2006 02:29:49 Gimme a link. Also if you happen to know about what point in the coverage it was that would help.
Tunajuice	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:29:00 - [5] Link?
EwokPoacher Nubs. Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:30:00 - [6] What is the proposed nerf? Is it the less damage per stab nerf?
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:34:00 - [7] Targetting range and sensor strength I believe. Similar to the inconvenience experienced when you're being damped. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
EwokPoacher Nubs. Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:40:00 - [8] Great so it can be compensated buy running sensor boosters...wow what a nerf....Now you'll just see people w/ a remote sensor boosting buddy...also running stabs.
Awox Minmatar Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:46:00 - [9] No matter, I run around with 4 points, and most people know it. So they just logoffski. See my sig! EVE is a PvP game.. right. - Logoffski Name & SHAME
Masta Killa The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:55:00 - [10] They could as well have named the patch "Nerfing UDIE" ... -------------------------------------- "It's like, we show up and UDIE."

welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:57:00 - [11] The nerf should have come in the form of extreme fitting requirements with a bonus to fitting on none combat ships (imo). Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
Xori Ruscuv The Scope	Posted - 2006.10.16 04:55:00 - [12] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 16/10/2006 04:56:01 Originally by: welsh wizard The nerf should have come in the form of extreme fitting requirements with a bonus to fitting on none combat ships (imo). Yeah... too bad CCP is thinking about game balance. EDIT: Nice sig btw.
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.16 04:58:00 - [13] Originally by: Masta Killa They could as well have named the patch "Nerfing UDIE" ... More like it's going to nerf 50% of the 0.0 population _____________________________ siggys v. 0.5
Dahin Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.16 05:29:00 - [14] only 50%? It's raining stabs out here. 2 stabs on rifter, 3stabs on sniping tempest (wtf?), 3+ stabs on rupture, 5 god damn stabs on a recon ship. I liked the 1% chance of ship spontaneously exploding per warp per stab idea.
EwokPoacher Nubs. Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.16 05:50:00 - [15] I'd prefer 20% reduction in damage per stab. Or better yet, make them an active module that disables your highs and mids when activated. Goes into to the whole redirecting all power to the warp core so you can get away idea.
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.16 06:53:00 - [16] Originally by: welsh wizard Targetting range and sensor strength I believe. Similar to the inconvenience experienced when you're being damped. sensor strengh or scan ressolution? i think it's second Originally by: Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era of target-less randomosity.
Luric Vizjier The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.16 09:03:00 - [17] Stabs should be changed Active Mid Slot Modules. Not only would this put a damper onto combat setups, it would be a boon to haulers that want to use their lows slots for cargo expanders or other such mods. -----------------------------------------------
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.16 09:08:00 - [18] Personally I think they are fine. You really do give up alot of your combat ability even now when using them. It could be 10% less damage and rof (damage mod) or it could be 20% less resists to damage. Whatever it is, you nerf the ship alot when using them. I think thats punishment enough, but yeah, ccp have said they are looking into it. But they say that all the time, and it takes a LONG time before something happens. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Wotar	Posted - 2006.10.16 09:26:00 - [19] Originally by: Luric Vizjier Stabs should be changed Active Mid Slot Modules. Not only would this put a damper onto combat setups, it would be a boon to haulers that want to use their lows slots for cargo expanders or other such mods. So scorps can fit 8, and Geddons can only fit 3? Sounds perfect! (btw they used to be active midslot modules, then they got changed to passive lowslot ones )
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.10.16 09:42:00 - [20] Originally by: Wotar (btw they used to be active midslot modules, then they got changed to passive lowslot ones ) Highslots IIRC RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy

Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.16 09:51:00 - [21] Effect one: Increase in signature radius. Effect two: Decrease in sensor resolution. The numerical isn't fixed, but each Warp Core Stabilizer would modify the respective statistic by 25% each. So, fit two stabs and you lock targets approximately 50% slower, they lock you 50% faster, and they track your ship 50% better. Jim, you may give up a lot fitting a Warp Core Stabilizer, but you give up quite a bit fitting a scrambler, too - and that's not even taking into account the difficulty in actually activating a scrambler on an enemy. But were scramblers infinitely ranged and didn't require activation, the way Warp Core Stabilizers are, I'd agree. - Three years old
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.16 11:34:00 - [22] Simple answer Each WCS increases lock time by 20 seconds. Problem solved. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.10.16 11:48:00 - [23] Edited by: welsh wizard on 16/10/2006 11:49:57 Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 16/10/2006 04:56:01 Originally by: welsh wizard The nerf should have come in the form of extreme fitting requirements with a bonus to fitting on none combat ships (imo). Yeah... too bad CCP is thinking about game balance. EDIT: Nice sig btw. Explain what you're thinking if you don't mind. I thought the whole idea was to make stabs useless on a pvp fitted ship? Why make them semi useless and counterable with sensor boosters? The whole point is that if you want to fight then you accept that you may not come out alive. That is why people don't like stabs on combat ships. Originally by: MECTO Originally by: welsh wizard Targetting range and sensor strength I believe. Similar to the inconvenience experienced when you're being damped. sensor strengh or scan ressolution? i think it's second. Aye you're right, scan resolution. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.16 12:15:00 - [24] Originally by: Ithildin Effect one: Increase in signature radius. Effect two: Decrease in sensor resolution. The numerical isn't fixed, but each Warp Core Stabilizer would modify the respective statistic by 25% each. So, fit two stabs and you lock targets approximately 50% slower, they lock you 50% faster, and they track your ship 50% better. Jim, you may give up a lot fitting a Warp Core Stabilizer, but you give up quite a bit fitting a scrambler, too - and that's not even taking into account the difficulty in actually activating a scrambler on an enemy. But were scramblers infinitely ranged and didn't require activation, the way Warp Core Stabilizers are, I'd agree. Yep, you have a good point there. And I think the bonuses you mention are the ones the folks at ccp were debating when the wcs discussion was at its peak. We'll see how it turns out if they ever get around to actually doing something. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
ARMORINE	Posted - 2006.10.16 17:57:00 - [25] i was skeptical at first but now i have seen what some people have been doing ahem! GINGER ahem! putting 8 yes thats right 8 wcs's on their sniping megas and warping away at the firts sign of danger i think if they hit a home run wiht the nerf bat i'd be happy. i think i good fix to them would be to make them ONLY work against npc's and not work against players. just my 2 cents
Phenom Fighter Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.16 18:15:00 - [26] make highslot tbh, nuff said. i thought the nerf was to decrease locking speed and max velocity? -----------------------------
Shadowsword Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.10.16 18:18:00 - [27] Originally by: ARMORINE ...putting 8 yes thats right 8 wcs's on their sniping megas... A 150 CPU fitting requirment per stab would have been pretty nice. ------------------------------------------ Nuhwall: Why are some Amarr ships warping backward? Shadowsword: whatever happen, if they need to flee they can honestly say the faced the enemy.
Serapis Aote TBC	Posted - 2006.10.16 18:31:00 - [28] They should include a stacking penalty like they do for other mods. Although I would have preferred a damage nerf.
Jonay 3B Legio IX Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.16 18:45:00 - [29] Edited by: Jonay on 16/10/2006 18:48:23 just limit it to two per ship, or make it active modules that only activates in deadspace, good for mision, useless for pvp, or make them do 20% less ship speed per wce, i hate those vagas with 5 of them, if dont want to lose a expensive ship in pvp dont use it.
Fenderson Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.16 18:56:00 - [30] Originally by: ARMORINE ...putting 8 yes thats right 8 wcs's on their sniping megas and warping away at the firts sign of danger I want a mega w/ 8 lows! No fair! real men structure tank

Safron Mista Amarr Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.16 19:00:00 - [31] I would prefer a 20% ROF penalty for each Stab TBH. __________________________________________
Powderburn Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.10.16 19:18:00 - [32] I like the idea I heard in local last night. Stabs are just like now except no fitting requirements. Instead, they reduce the ship's CPU by 50% each. Now that's an ouch, but you can still be a runner if you want. Just can't fit anything useful.
M4sterm1nd DarkStar 1 Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.16 21:38:00 - [33] Edited by: M4sterm1nd on 16/10/2006 21:39:58 Personally I'd find the dampening nerf of stabs genius. In fact, I'd suggest adding another modifier : an inertia penalty based on ship mass for non-industrials. The only time a decent pilot stabs is if he's running from or through hostiles. After all, who stabs a tackler? That way, a stabbed gatesniper would become impossibly sluggish, forcing the use of a support vessel with remote sebo's & webbers (slingshot to overcome inertia penalty), which would leave the support vessel behind, open for evisceration by whoever took offense to being shot from offgrid by some warp-stabbing pansy. Headline one-liners: Suicidal Teen Kills Twin By Mistake! (My sig left after Eldo called her fat)
Darquies Shade	Posted - 2006.10.17 05:56:00 - [34] I loved some of your guys prev answers about the WCS Plauge. but the best one i like is the 20 second additional targeting time they would give if you put them on. that and make em med slots ________________________________________________ I Protect The Helpless From The Heartless
Sebroth FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.17 10:40:00 - [35] Originally by: Safron Mista I would prefer a 20% ROF penalty for each Stab TBH. so you still can use them on the ship you have in your sig w/ any penalty? Im fairly sure a rof penalty would not nerf drones/nos/ew ect, just like a rof bonus dont boost them. No we donÆt need a so specialised nerf at all. The changes have to be more universal then that, like lock time, sig radius, speed, fitting requirements ect. Best would be small changes on lots of things since that would make it harder to get around. * A sig boost is not that of a big problem if you are in a bs, unless you up against a rage torp spamming raven. * Fitting problem is a something that most ships get hit by even haulersà * Speed is not a big problem for ships that donÆt care that much about speed like missile users. * A long lock time is bad for ever single pvp ship, especially now even every single ship fits ecm. This is the single best nerf imho. * Making them a mid slot module would nerf every single pvp ship ig and be a seriously change for haulers. Take the t2 mammoth (canÆt remember the name) that today are able to fit a tank (shield tanker)so they instapop like t1 haulers and a combo of stabs and nanos in low it would be nerfed to hell. The same would go for every single one of the transport ships I believe so if they are making stabs a mid slot thing the transport ships will need a change. BTW if Scorpion pilot starts putting stabs in their mid I would be grateful since that would mean less ECM :) ----- Never knock on Death's door; ring the doorbell and run (he hates that)
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.10.17 11:06:00 - [36] Edited by: welsh wizard on 17/10/2006 11:06:33 Why not massive fitting requirements countered with a bonus on industrials? I don't see the downside. With the introduction of interdictors, nanos + mwd keep your travel setup bs alive much better than stabs can anyway. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
Polinus	Posted - 2006.10.17 11:15:00 - [37] My point of view on this nerf and any other nerf. Nerfs should never make soemthing (skill, equipment ship etc..) non usefull for either PvE or PvP. Any change that make so is horrible to teh game since it removes diversity from the game. For example not making it work with players. Every effect shoudl be couterable! But countering an effect should always cost more than the effect itself. So there must be a tradeoff The signature radius I think is a good idea. Nerf does not mean eliminate from the game. When you have a game balance adjustment that makes an previously over used stuff simply disapear.. you made a bad balance..
ARMORINE	Posted - 2006.10.17 17:49:00 - [38] Originally by: ARMORINE 8 yes thats right 8 wcs's on their sniping megas oop well you get the idea, theres a definite problem here and yes i get so worked up over hwo some people use stabs that it makes me mad and i cant think
M4sterm1nd DarkStar 1 Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.17 20:20:00 - [39] Edited by: M4sterm1nd on 17/10/2006 20:22:12 Originally by: Darquies Shade the best one i like is the 20 second additional targeting time they would give if you put them on. yes. Originally by: Darquies Shade that and make em med slots no. Dude, come on. How you gonna fit a tank to a hauler if you need those slots for stabs? It would over-nerf the stabs. Stabs themselves aren't bad, and they aare good low slot mods. The Cargo/WCS trade-off is a good balancer. After all, it's the sniper youre trying to nerf, not the industrialist. Headline one-liners: Suicidal Teen Kills Twin By Mistake! (My sig left after Eldo called her fat)
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.17 20:40:00 - [40] Left stab as is. No need to nerf them. Just be more smart, fly in gangs, kill enemy fast and use few more tacklers.

Flesh Eater	Posted - 2006.10.18 07:25:00 - [41] Stabs are alright as they are. Why is everyone keen them giving penalties except on haulers??? Ferrying small items through low sec is usually much easier in a frig or cruiser (with stabs) than a hauler.
Sev Renard Gallente Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2006.10.18 07:38:00 - [42] What we dislike about stabs is that they are catered to ships with "utility lowslots" coughcaldaricough. That and there's no penalty for fitting them, but for the lack of a slot. Although I do agree the loss of a lowslot is indeed significant, it's not enough of a punishment for people using them in pvp setups. An idea that I saw a while back that I liked was to increase the strength of 20km scrams to 1.5, and the 7.5km scrams to 3. _________________________________________ I wonder which will come first, my portrait, or a sig hijack...
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.18 07:52:00 - [43] Originally by: Powderburn I like the idea I heard in local last night. Stabs are just like now except no fitting requirements. Instead, they reduce the ship's CPU by 50% each. Now that's an ouch, but you can still be a runner if you want. Just can't fit anything useful. 50% might be harsh, but i like idea.
Kaptn Xo Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.10.18 08:26:00 - [44] Make stabs hi-slot item. Period.
Ronin Reborn Perkone	Posted - 2006.10.18 10:34:00 - [45] Here's an idea I've had for awhile, kinda RP-centric too. Stabs act as they do now, however, if a ship that has them equipped is destroyed, you suffer a penalty to how long before your pod can warp off. Like the extra containment fields around the wcs caused a mini bubble. Have it stack so it be something like 6 sec for one 10 sec for two 13 for three and 15 for 4. That way you're nerfing the player, not the ship. A vaga with 3 stabs on it might be harder to catch and kill but if you do catch it you're almost assured a podkill as well. This would prevent a some people from using implants resulting in less sp in the long run. Wouldn't really hurt haulers all that much since it seems like everyone has hauler alts now anyways.
TerrorWOLF J.H.E.N.R Pure.	Posted - 2006.10.18 10:45:00 - [46] Originally by: Kaptn Xo Make stabs hi-slot item. Period. And how many higs have industrial ships ?? 1 or 2 yah right industrial are owerpowerd and need to nerf. May Your Death Be Slow And Painful
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.18 10:54:00 - [47] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 17/10/2006 11:06:33 Why not massive fitting requirements countered with a bonus on industrials? You don't need a fitting bonus on Industrials since they've got more than enough CPU to spare. Even the Wreathe has 600 CPU. Just a thought and a hint. - What am I listening to?
D'Arkon Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2006.10.18 13:40:00 - [48] Stabs are just fine the way they are now. The only people whining are pirates and pvp junkies. Nerfing stabs is the same as nerfing the more casual players who want to rat in 0.0 with at least some sense of security.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.18 14:36:00 - [49] Originally by: D'Arkon Skye Stabs are just fine the way they are now. The only people whining are pirates and pvp junkies. Nerfing stabs is the same as nerfing the more casual players who want to rat in 0.0 with at least some sense of security. /signed
Maj Kreken The xDEATHx Squadron	Posted - 2006.10.18 16:24:00 - [50] Edited by: Maj Kreken on 18/10/2006 16:25:27 Ewok, next time try to curse more in local, it would definately work as a warp bubble if you try hard enough. Stabs are fine, learn2play. Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.10.18 18:55:00 - [51] My beef with WCS is that you can use them and a scrambler for risk free tackling. Should have to choose between the two IMO, you want to tackle, you have to run the risk of getting tackled. ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Auman Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.19 11:19:00 - [52] They had WCS stabs in WWII?
Polinus	Posted - 2006.10.19 11:31:00 - [53] No but if you were attackjking a fighter and you were not able to kil it before he gets in position to fight back. It was extremely easy to the defending fighetr to force you in a furball and you could not leave anymore without being sure to get shot in the back. So to have success your most importatnt skill was to know when to bug out. And the best fighetrs were the ones capable of bugging out when needed. Its just an example of how one of the m,ost exiting combat scenarios of history was not solely Kill or be killed, and that tatical retreatment is a completely valid tatic that do not expoil the fun.
Awox Minmatar Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.10.19 11:52:00 - [54] This just in: WCS nerf doesn't effect the following ship's effectiveness in anyway: nosdomi w/ sensor booster vagabond or stabber ferox or nighthawk w/ sensor booster Any other examples? :D - Logoffski Name & SHAME
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.10.19 11:58:00 - [55] The majoirty of people who have replied to this thread are clearly total nubins to pvp with almost no knowledge of how stabs really affect pvp. Anyway, stab nerf is coming soon. scan res/sig radius/mass penalties will occur.
M4sterm1nd DarkStar 1 Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.21 20:05:00 - [56] Pol come on d00d. The very reason this stab nerf is gonna rock is precisely because it removes the braindead CS turkeyshoot element. It makes sure that you must think your fit though, and must weigh the pluspoints of the God Module against completely nerfind your whole build. The way it is now all stabs cost is lowslots, but they effectively work like a noclip command. Headline one-liners: Suicidal Teen Kills Twin By Mistake! (My sig left after Eldo called her fat)


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