EVE Search - People that log out to save their ships...

All Channels

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

People that log out to save their ships...

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Blazde 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.16 05:04:00 - [1] ...are making me want to quit EVE I'm sure this has been discussed endlessly elsewhere but I will suggest some simple, easy to implement solutions. Right now there is a log-off pandemic in EVE and it needs to be stopped. a) Disconnecting before the PvP Log Off Timer activates If a player's ship is locked and/or fired on after they log off (while their ship is trying to emergency warp) the PvP timer needs to be activated. As it is now they disappear after 1 minute which is too quick to kill most ships, except in a gank situation. I know there are (weak) arguments for leaving it as it is, but EVE these days is much more stable, as are many people's internet connections. And if the PvP timer is activating anyway if they disconnect during combat, there's little reason it can't also activate if they happen to disconnect in the few seconds before combat begins. The only people really harmed are those with flaky internet connections that tend to sit around enemies for long periods of time, baiting them and looking for moments of opportunity. As one of those people myself, I'd much rather lose ships every time my router chokes than lose kills everytime a player I catch out decides he doesn't want to die. b) Jumping and the PvP Log Off Timer Jumping should not clear your PvP timer as it does now (actually I haven't personally checked this is the case recently, but I've been told it is and it was always silly). c) Simple tanking AI To ease the apparent pain of implementing the above two rules I also suggest a very simple tanking AI. If you're logged off, have lost more shield/armour than a full repair or boost cycle would give you, and would still have more than 25% capacitor charge if that repairer or booster was activated, then it can be automatically activated. Hardeners and damage controls can also be activated, to guard against those situations where you drop immediately after jumping or undocking and don't have a chance to activate them. This wouldn't give perfect tanking, but it would help those players that genuinely disconnect then relog back immediately. d) Emergency Warps Anyone that logs off then logs on again needs to warp back to the exact point they disconnected. As it is now they can simply relog off again immediately they see their hostiles are still in local, and their ship will do a 2nd emergency warp leaving them in a happy safespot if they choose to log on a 3rd time. Also there is no reason at all why emergency-warp back should put you 15km away from where you emergency warped from. (This is also a pain for legitimate disconnects because you sit on a gate, lag out a bit, emergency warp, then find yourself 10 or so km away from it) d) Warp Disrupt Probes People logging off in a warp disrupt probe's radius should not emergency warp out. The current situation is just crazy so this needs no explaining. e) Bans It needs to be made clear that logging off to save your ship is an exploit. GMs need to read petitions by players of people who log off, investigate the logs and flag players who appear to have logged off just to save their ship. Anyone repeatedly suspected of doing it to the point it can't be a coincidence needs to be slapped with a month or so ban. f) Differentiating Genuine Disconnects from Lame Disconnects It's been said before (in a devblog or somewhere) that there's no way to differentiate between someone closing the client and disconnecting, but anyone remotely familar with windows programming knows this isn't the case because cleanup code is executed. That code needs to start imforming the server when a player closes his client intentionally, and that information needs to be used to decide on which timers are activated and to assist in dishing out bans as above. Sure it won't stop people who pull their network cable out fom faking disconnects, but it will slow down the simpletons. _
Redart Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.16 05:11:00 - [2] Here's a better idea: You could make a forum thread about it, so the people who didn't know about it can start doing it. Oh Wait. Gorgeous Gamers
Blazde 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.16 05:19:00 - [3] Full disclosure helps gets things fixed. These problems have been around for a very long time now so I can only assume the people that need to know about them haven't had it spelled out concisely yet. I discovered a dev blog from July 2004 saying log offs were going to be clamped down on via the PvP log off timer, it's a shame that hasn't happened yet. And, the GMs apparently don't consider them exploits, so discussing here whether they should or should not be a feature of EVE should not be breaking any "don't talk about exploits" rule (which I fully approve of when the exploits in question are in the process of being fixed). _
Kendar Gallente 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.16 05:40:00 - [4] /me logs off forums so nobody can flame him ./signed
Hoshino Hitomi	Posted - 2006.10.16 05:45:00 - [5] Originally by: Blazde f) Differentiating Genuine Disconnects from Lame Disconnects It's been said before (in a devblog or somewhere) that there's no way to differentiate between someone closing the client and disconnecting, but anyone remotely familar with windows programming knows this isn't the case because cleanup code is executed. That code needs to start imforming the server when a player closes his client intentionally, and that information needs to be used to decide on which timers are activated and to assist in dishing out bans as above. Sure it won't stop people who pull their network cable out fom faking disconnects, but it will slow down the simpletons. Does this include alt-ctrl-del -> end process/end process tree? My knowledge of windows coding is somewhat lacking.
Blazde 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.16 06:30:00 - [6] Originally by: Hoshino Hitomi Does this include alt-ctrl-del -> end process/end process tree? My knowledge of windows coding is somewhat lacking. I believe not, tho my knowledge is not perfect. Still I'd feel happier if the exploiters had to take 4-5 seconds longer to open up task manager. Also, if you force-kill EVE there might be an added benefit of the TCP connection not being cleaned up so gracefully, meaning the server would have to wait the 15 seconds TCP timeout value (or whatever the EVE cluster sets it to) before deciding the player had really gone and emergency warping him. As it is now, closing EVE causes instant emergency warp which is not what happens if you lose your internet connection properly. Not sure on this tho. _
Reggie Stoneloader eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.16 07:31:00 - [7] There are a great many abuses of game mechanics that a lot of very successful players use to their benefit. For many people, playing a video game is as much about metagaming as gaming, and lag, logging on or off of the server and taking advantage of unfixed bugs and exploitable mechanics are weapons the same way heavy missiles or pulse lasers are to the rest of us. If CCP's going to come down on the exploits that eat your lunch, they've got to come down on all of them, and it's far easier to just wag their finger and say, "These practices are abhorrent," than to roll up their sleeves and start banning the pillars of the EvE community. Civis Ascendant Sum
Fearless Sheep	Posted - 2006.10.16 07:48:00 - [8] we might as well see "respawning in station when killed" practice like in WoW some time soon tbh logging off is one of most annoying things as there is NOTHING u can do against it (even dictor sphere is not helping ffs ) but seams like DEVs dont really care about it... Why u would need a jump clone w/o implants when u simply can log off when killed
Matonius2	Posted - 2006.10.16 08:48:00 - [9] Logging off as a means to escape is wrong and needs to be fixed. CCP I am counting on you to do something. Plz
Lomilitah 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.16 08:51:00 - [10] Originally by: Blazde Originally by: Hoshino Hitomi Does this include alt-ctrl-del -> end process/end process tree? My knowledge of windows coding is somewhat lacking. I believe not, tho my knowledge is not perfect. Still I'd feel happier if the exploiters had to take 4-5 seconds longer to open up task manager. Also, if you force-kill EVE there might be an added benefit of the TCP connection not being cleaned up so gracefully, meaning the server would have to wait the 15 seconds TCP timeout value (or whatever the EVE cluster sets it to) before deciding the player had really gone and emergency warping him. As it is now, closing EVE causes instant emergency warp which is not what happens if you lose your internet connection properly. Not sure on this tho. Sadly its kinda impossible to make it water proof. If a lamer wants to simulate a real connection problem he can just unplug his network cable or something like that. However only a few of the proposed solutions will help alot.
Nadar Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.16 08:54:00 - [11] Completely agree with Blazde on this one. Nothing worse than a kid (yes, only kids run) who decides it has gotten too hot. My question to those kids logging off: Why,`o why, do you play this game if you can't accept the consequences of losing a battle? --- What I write are my own opinions and it does not reflect my corp or alliance's opinions, so kindly bugger off.
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.16 09:00:00 - [12] Originally by: Blazde d) Emergency Warps Anyone that logs off then logs on again needs to warp back to the exact point they disconnected. As it is now they can simply relog off again immediately they see their hostiles are still in local, and their ship will do a 2nd emergency warp leaving them in a happy safespot if they choose to log on a 3rd time. Also there is no reason at all why emergency-warp back should put you 15km away from where you emergency warped from. (This is also a pain for legitimate disconnects because you sit on a gate, lag out a bit, emergency warp, then find yourself 10 or so km away from it) The rest I don't PVP enough to comment on, but this gets a "Hell Yeah". My CEO lost his Sleipnir to a gate camp due to this...he ran the camp and made the gate, but then got disconnected. Logged back in to find himself 15km from the gate again, but with all the damage that the camp had done to him on the FIRST run. He didn't make it second time. CCP's response to the petition was the normal "our servers don't keep logs" yada yada... --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
Vuk Lau 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.16 09:05:00 - [13] I am so annoyed with ppl logging (but anyway we killed like 80% of logged off ships) that i have habbit to camp that gate with dictor for more then 1 hour so I can catch the pod also (or survived ship) and in 50% suckers log in and get their express ticket to empire. I really cant understand that cause I think there is no pussiest thing in EVE. If u cant accept your loss go play WoW where you have ressurect button.
Stanis Gallente 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.16 09:47:00 - [14] What realy needs to be fixed is warping out of the interdictor sphear. Ppl know they can't get out of and that an only way to get out of it is loging. So they just do it. Go Blazde :).
Za Po Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.16 10:08:00 - [15] Originally by: Hoshino Hitomi Originally by: Blazde f) Differentiating Genuine Disconnects from Lame Disconnects It's been said before (in a devblog or somewhere) that there's no way to differentiate between someone closing the client and disconnecting, but anyone remotely familar with windows programming knows this isn't the case because cleanup code is executed. That code needs to start imforming the server when a player closes his client intentionally, and that information needs to be used to decide on which timers are activated and to assist in dishing out bans as above. Sure it won't stop people who pull their network cable out fom faking disconnects, but it will slow down the simpletons. Does this include alt-ctrl-del -> end process/end process tree? My knowledge of windows coding is somewhat lacking. It is possible to intercept that and perform cleanup. There are many ways to kill a process without letting it cleanup, but I can't think of any that uses the standard Windows tools. Cleanup would reduce the problem, at least until someone makes a tool to force quit without cleanup and makes it available.
Ellaine TashMurkon MetaForge Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.16 10:32:00 - [16] Perfect system, wuld be choosing one safe per system and ship automaticaly warping there when You logoff in space. Culd be friendly POS, or station (dock automaticaly). In empire, choose randoim NPC station. In 0.0 and empire stationless systems, warp to random deep safespot. Sit there. So if You know someone logged in system, You can probe and pop him, simply. Ship shuld Disapear on next downtime :) After loging back, ship shuld stay there - this helps against login traps.
ITTigerClawIK	Posted - 2006.10.16 10:54:00 - [17] hmmm i see an anoyed Pirate here... must be annoying for those who have a network problem and eve dissconnects them and then they have to go as quickly as they can to get back on to save there hsip
Baun 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.16 14:09:00 - [18] Originally by: ITTigerClawIK hmmm i see an anoyed Pirate here... must be annoying for those who have a network problem and eve dissconnects them and then they have to go as quickly as they can to get back on to save there hsip If you think that the only people who will get annoyed by this are pirates then you are extremely new to EVE or you have never left Empire. In any case, even if someone made a tool to force quit EVE with cleanup, very few people would have it. At worst a few alliances would spread it around. If CCP started enforcing log offs, it would become pretty clear who these people are anyway. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Ellaine TashMurkon MetaForge Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.16 14:32:00 - [19] Distingushing "reasons" behind disconnect is bad. It only leads to people pulling off their network cables or killing Eve process etc, to emulate unintentional disconnect. Just another metagame element. All ships, no matter what pilot did and why he disconnected, shuld use the same means of getting safe as an online pilot wuld be able to use. Thats all.
Xorce	Posted - 2006.10.16 14:38:00 - [20] Edited by: Xorce on 16/10/2006 14:38:11 /signed Blazde .. hate these lame tactics
Julius Gherhan Caldari 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.16 16:09:00 - [21] /signed Ruins my 2 hours of pvp per month :(
Dutarro Kydance Radiant Industries Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.16 16:14:00 - [22] Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon Distingushing "reasons" behind disconnect is bad. It only leads to people pulling off their network cables or killing Eve process etc, to emulate unintentional disconnect. Just another metagame element. All ships, no matter what pilot did and why he disconnected, shuld use the same means of getting safe as an online pilot wuld be able to use. Thats all. I agree completely. The best solution to logoff exploits is for the logged-off ship to do something that the logged-on player could have done anyway.
Steel John Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.16 16:42:00 - [23] /signed... I hate it when some one is dead to right and just logs off. Then says Lost internet. It is time to stop givening them a free ride. Play the game and play right or go play WoW or one of the other games that will let you get away with doing this stuff.
Rippey Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.16 16:45:00 - [24] Signed. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes
Za Po Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.16 17:01:00 - [25] Originally by: Steel John /signed... I hate it when some one is dead to right and just logs off. Then says Lost internet. It is time to stop givening them a free ride. Play the game and play right or go play WoW or one of the other games that will let you get away with doing this stuff. I reckon the death penalty in WoW is so low that it's not even worth disconnecting to avoid it.
javer Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.16 17:46:00 - [26] well another nice thread to point out flawed game mechanics that has been broken for 1year+ now -------------------------------------------- Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their Level and beat you with experience.
ragewind Caldari VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.16 18:42:00 - [27] Originally by: Blazde I know there are (weak) arguments for leaving it as it is, but EVE these days is much more stable that is so funny, made my smile ------------------------------------ Dragon the patch to optimise EVE. Welcome to Tranquillity the optimised snail Please wait 4 minuets to jump war targets are 2 seconds away.
Theodwyn	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:25:00 - [28] Originally by: Za Po Originally by: Hoshino Hitomi Originally by: Blazde f) Differentiating Genuine Disconnects from Lame Disconnects It's been said before (in a devblog or somewhere) that there's no way to differentiate between someone closing the client and disconnecting, but anyone remotely familar with windows programming knows this isn't the case because cleanup code is executed. That code needs to start imforming the server when a player closes his client intentionally, and that information needs to be used to decide on which timers are activated and to assist in dishing out bans as above. Sure it won't stop people who pull their network cable out fom faking disconnects, but it will slow down the simpletons. Does this include alt-ctrl-del -> end process/end process tree? My knowledge of windows coding is somewhat lacking. It is possible to intercept that and perform cleanup. There are many ways to kill a process without letting it cleanup, but I can't think of any that uses the standard Windows tools. Cleanup would reduce the problem, at least until someone makes a tool to force quit without cleanup and makes it available. that is called on/off switch :) But the other points are signed
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:32:00 - [29] What I said about this before I'm not sure what I find more disturbing currently, the insane game mechanics that actually encourage it or the number of people who feel they have the right to take advantage of it. Raptor and Ares Fix
Nadar Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.16 23:09:00 - [30] People who keep logging off in battle needs to ask themselves if they belong in a game like EVE at all. Lamers/pussies/chickens/whatever who can't accept the consequences of flying in low-sec/0.0 should go play WoW where PVP is a joke (like the off-loggers makes EVE, a joke). CCP, please, for the love of God and Mr T, please fix this crap. --- What I write are my own opinions and it does not reflect my corp or alliance's opinions, so kindly bugger off.

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.