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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Thyre
Gallente
United Minerals Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.16 23:24:00 -
[31]
man, i didn't know there was such thing. i love it when pirates make mistakes by telling u how to get away. 
"Know where to find the information and how to use it - That's the
secret of success!" -- Albert Einstein
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deadmaus
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.17 02:37:00 -
[32]
Edited by: deadmaus on 17/10/2006 02:38:29
A well thought out and logical solution to this increasingly frustrating lamer tactic.
CCP please fix this for the good of the game.
BTTT
PS MM are not pirates |
Grammer
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Posted - 2006.10.17 03:01:00 -
[33]
warp scam anyone?
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Aquae
Gallente
Die Trying
Kith of Venal
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Posted - 2006.10.17 11:09:00 -
[34]
TO CCP:
There are many reasons why Eve is a great game and why i still play it.
To be honest it became a way of life for the last 2 year (loads of hours playing, spending time on your forum when i should be working ... :)) )
When i play , it is like reading a good book (EON) or watching a good movie , it does take me away ... until this guy just press escape to avoid loosing his ship and log off .
this is so annoying and breaking the all spirit of the game. i'm sure, ways could be possible to avoid this .
If this is part of the feature of the game, this might be the reason why i would stop the all experience.
I don't thing people would like to see in the next Eve Trailer how fast you can logg off from the game to avoid problem
I declare that i never used that "technic" to avoid being kill and you can probably verify that.
Please fix this , and i strongly believe this should be part of your Priority.
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Grytok
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Posted - 2006.10.17 11:47:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Grytok on 17/10/2006 11:48:06
First to say, I did never log off so far, when I was in such a situation!
In my understanding of a game, it is totally legal to CTRL+Q, even if it annoys the other players.
By quitting the game (logging off) I decide not to play the game. And if I decide not to play, I should not get killed while not playing.
Sure logging off is lame, but you can't force people to play the game, just to stay alive.
Another problem would hit the shelves, when there is something changed to the current mechanics. There would be billions of petitions, because of lost ships during REAL disconnects.
.
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Drakona Malchon
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.17 11:55:00 -
[36]
I find it against the spirit of Eve, that this tactics can be used.
Eve is the only MMRPG which has true PvP. This is why so many ppl still play it after 3 years. One day you can be top, the other day you are down.
And this is not a pirate argument here! This is an argument of alliances/corps defending their space as well as alliances/corps attacking.
It is the many vs one discussion. Usually if there is 1 vs many, the Group usually wins and should win! The "bug/feature" as discribed here is the "exploit" how the 1 player can win.
I am sure it was never intended in that way, otherwise CCP wouldnt have included dictors, warpbubbles, even warpscramblers in this game.
If you want the "I win button" go play WoW.
Combat Op Director
Free-Space-Ranger
Corporate Homepage
onlinegaming since 1998 |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.17 16:00:00 -
[37]
As far as I know, if you have the target warp scrambled when he logs off, then the disconnect warp does NOT take place. Why aren't you scrambling your targets?
If I'm missing something, just let me know...
---
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Baun
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.18 05:01:00 -
[38]
 Originally by: Grey Area
As far as I know, if you have the target warp scrambled when he logs off, then the disconnect warp does NOT take place. Why aren't you scrambling your targets?
If I'm missing something, just let me know...
2 issues:
1) Pilot is in a bubble which is supposed to prevent him from warping but allows him to warp if he logs off in the bubble.
2) If a pilot logs before he is warp scrambled then (I think) he will warp regardless of how many points you have on him. If you jump log, again I think this still works this way, you are immune to being scrambled on the other side.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Blazde
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.18 07:37:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon
Distingushing "reasons" behind disconnect is bad.
It only leads to people pulling off their network cables or killing Eve process etc, to emulate unintentional disconnect.
Pulling their network cable out will drop all their other connections (MSN, downloads, other EVE clients etc..). Killing EVE quite often leads to corrupt settings and occasionally a totally broken EVE install. If the sploiters have to suffer that it's at least a little better than the current situation.
Infact right now EVE does differentiate between closing EVE and losing connection. Those that close it will instantly log off. Those that lag out (and probably also those that CTD) will have to wait 15(?) seconds for the server to log them off.
The main point of differentiating would be to give the GMs info about how a person disconnected. Then when an log off exploiter got banned, and complained that their router was dodgy or whatever the GMs would be able to check logs and be sure they were lying. There's no reason for players to know the differentiating is taking place, so most will continue to close EVE unknowingly feeding the GMs info that they're cheating.
Originally by: Baun
2) If a pilot logs before he is warp scrambled then (I think) he will warp regardless of how many points you have on him. If you jump log, again I think this still works this way, you are immune to being scrambled on the other side.
Not experienced this myself recently (cos I always bump em to make sure) but have seen people complaining about it. If it does work that way it's an extremely odd choice by CCP (or more likely a bug that needs investigating). But regardless of whether they emergency warp or not, they will disappear into thin air in 60 seconds. Then when they log on they will magically be 1 million km away.
_
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Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.10.18 09:22:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Blazde
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon
Distingushing "reasons" behind disconnect is bad.
It only leads to people pulling off their network cables or killing Eve process etc, to emulate unintentional disconnect.
Pulling their network cable out will drop all their other connections (MSN, downloads, other EVE clients etc..). Killing EVE quite often leads to corrupt settings and occasionally a totally broken EVE install. If the sploiters have to suffer that it's at least a little better than the current situation.
None of above is a problem comparable to loosing a good BS (for most people) ;)
Quote:
Infact right now EVE does differentiate between closing EVE and losing connection. Those that close it will instantly log off. Those that lag out (and probably also those that CTD) will have to wait 15(?) seconds for the server to log them off.
Thats not checking anything, thats the nature of technology (TCP socket timeout).
Quote:
The main point of differentiating would be to give the GMs info about how a person disconnected. Then when an log off exploiter got banned, and complained that their router was dodgy or whatever the GMs would be able to check logs and be sure they were lying. There's no reason for players to know the differentiating is taking place, so most will continue to close EVE unknowingly feeding the GMs info that they're cheating.
As its considered cheating by players, its not a cheat in EULA terms and noone will get banned for that.
Anyone, at any moment, can log off. 50 battleships incidentialy located at one gate can log off in one moment, and log back in when covop scout tells them about passing freighter, and by EULA its nothing wrong. Every single BS in a 100 BS fleet can instantly log off when locked and shot at log back in 1 minute, and by EULA its ok. Everyone can flee from interdictor and deplyable bubbles by logging off, and by EULA its ok. Finaly, every single miner and ratter can instantly log off when scouts report incoming ganksquad, and its perfectly right by EULA.
GMs may collect statistics and be happy knowing who logs when, but it has and shuld have no consequences.
CCP puts bans by strict, clearly defined rules, only when people are clearly proven guilty after checking logs and investigating. Thats why it takes so long to ban macrominers that some people think that macroers never get banned. In case of log (in/off) tricks, You can't define clear border between legal and illegal. I may log off becuase I have to sleep, with no conection to incoming hostile. I may go to safespot/POS and then logoff to do other things with my computer while waiting for hostiles to go away from systems I was mining or ratting.
I may logoff immediately because RL needs immediate attention (soup is boiling, baby crying). In last case (wich happens 15 times a day in my case), I wuld sometimes stay AFK with no hostiles in system, but I sometimes hit Ctrl+Q if its hot (I'm killed while AFK 10 times more often then when I'm at keyboard anyway).
The fact that I do not leave my ship to see myself in clone station next time I approach computer may be considered cheat by players, but its pretty legal by game rules.
And since CCP cannot ban people for that, "equal rights" for people online and offlining wuld be perfect :)
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Ascelot
Eve Defence Force
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.18 20:06:00 -
[41]
Everyone seems to think that if people log during combat, their cheating.
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon
Perfect system, wuld be choosing one safe per system and ship automaticaly warping there when You logoff in space.
Culd be friendly POS, or station (dock automaticaly).
In empire, choose randoim NPC station.
In 0.0 and empire stationless systems, warp to random deep safespot.
Sit there.
So if You know someone logged in system, You can probe and pop him, simply.
Ship shuld Disapear on next downtime :)
After loging back, ship shuld stay there - this helps against login traps.
I dont like this idea though. Mean, say, 1 hour after dt, my power supply blows or any other hardware fault, or my isp servers crash's has maintenance etc, telephone maintenance, powercuts etc. Things like these do happen, sould they be penalised for this?
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.18 20:23:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Baun
2 issues:
1) Pilot is in a bubble which is supposed to prevent him from warping but allows him to warp if he logs off in the bubble.
2) If a pilot logs before he is warp scrambled then (I think) he will warp regardless of how many points you have on him. If you jump log, again I think this still works this way, you are immune to being scrambled on the other side.
Don't PVP that much, if point 1 definitely works that way, it should be fixed...if you're unlucky enough to be in a warp bubble when your PSU blows up, it's just tough luck I'm afraid (life ain't fair)
Can confirm that point 2 is simply JUNK however. I've lost connection during missions whilst under attack from NPC scramblers, and can confirm that they are quite capable of holding you. AFAIK, there is no difference between NPC scramblers and player scramblers. If you have a ship held and they have logged off, I am pretty sure their modules cease to function instantly. If you don't have the firepower to kill them in the THREE minutes oit takes them to disappear (claims that it is 60 seconds are again, simply wrong, my old corp did extensive testing) then that is YOUR tough luck in the same way that it is tough luck for the payer in the warp bubble.
---
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Worms Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.18 20:36:00 -
[43]
whos the more chicken? the person logging out or the lamer camping the stargate because its the minimal risk method of pvp.
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Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.10.18 21:50:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Liru Okami on 18/10/2006 21:53:33
Edited by: Liru Okami on 18/10/2006 21:52:46
I dont see any problem with the log off/disconnect warping. It was put into the game to stop DOS attacks from alowing players to lag out a target and kill it with impunity. It shouldent be changed. Also it serves as way for people to avoid unwanted pvp.
Of course that is going to bring a ralling cry about "carebares" not going into low security and all that tripe. but look at it this way, most people dont have an alt somewhere with billions of isk to buy them new ships and gear. everything that gets destroyed without reason costs people time and money to replace time that could have been otherwise spent enjoying the game is now spent fixing what some jack ass broke.
Ive had way to many encounters with PVPers who abuse game mechanics to their advantage and i am not about to condone a post that takes away the one thing in favor of avoiding those people.
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Mashie Saldana
Hooligans Of War
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Posted - 2006.10.18 23:58:00 -
[45]
Another fix would be to have ships and pods warp back to the identical location they left and not get a 15km safety zone. Someone who shall remain unnamed saved his pod yesterday by logging out and instantly log back in again just to land outside of scram range and happily warp off to safety...
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Zoxia
Gallente
University of Caille
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Posted - 2006.10.19 00:12:00 -
[46]
If you are locked in combat there should be a 60 second timer before you are allowed to log. Also if you lose connection 60 seconds before you warp to this supposed safe spot. This is the biggest Exploit of all time and I am very suprised they have it here. easy fix and sounds like they are catering.
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Ecnav
Gallente
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.19 02:07:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Ecnav on 19/10/2006 02:09:09
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I don't have a sig |
Ecnav
Gallente
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.19 02:08:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Ecnav on 19/10/2006 02:09:54
Originally by: Thyre
man, i didn't know there was such thing. i love it when pirates make mistakes by telling u how to get away.
Hey, we're not pirates 
And I hate it when people do this as well, its cheap.
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I don't have a sig |
Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.10.19 02:40:00 -
[49]
You may not be a pirate but the only people who realy care about log warps are. Yes i am well aware that a pirate is just as likely to use this tatic as a "green" player. and it has more to do with the integrity of the people involved.
But i'll tell you right now that if my apoc jumps into some system and gets tackled and scrambled with no cause by a bunch of tallentless gate campers i am going to turn on my tank and flick the off switch on my router and pray for the best. A chance at survival is better than no chance of escape or fighting back at all.
Originally by: Ecnav
Hey, we're not pirates
And I hate it when people do this as well, its cheap.
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Awox
Minmatar
Corsets and Carebears
Whips and Chains
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Posted - 2006.10.19 04:31:00 -
[50]
People who say something about CCP only caring about pirates should read this thread and every other thread about this stupid problem. CCP are selling this game, so they want to make the majority of subscribers happy.
Fix logoff exploit hurts casual gamers the most, because they're usually the ones who play the PvE side exclusively, that or carebear alts. Rarely have I seen a competant PvP pilot log off cloaked at a gate.
It's usually unescorted hauling ships moving stuff or unescorted solo-NPC-pwnmobile battleships, but sometimes it's a PvP pilot not confident in his ability to run the blocade or a PvP pilot who logged on and was forced to travel without fleet escort.
The guys who run around unescorted, funnily enough, make up for the majority of EVE. Few carebears I see have scout alts in frigates to check for gate camps, so they just go willy nilly into camps and log off for the day if things are too hot for them!
If these people can no longer fly around invulnerable to bubbles because of logoffski, invulnerable to single tacklers because of heavy nos + racks of stabs + cloak.. why would they continue playing? They wouldn't. They'd leave.
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Logoffski Name & SHAME |
Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.10.19 08:27:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ascelot
So if You know someone logged in system, You can probe and pop him, simply.
Ship shuld Disapear on next downtime :)
After loging back, ship shuld stay there - this helps against login traps.
I dont like this idea though. Mean, say, 1 hour after dt, my power supply blows or any other hardware fault, or my isp servers crash's has maintenance etc, telephone maintenance, powercuts etc. Things like these do happen, sould they be penalised for this?
Penalised? Your ship does the best thing to survive in given moment. Simply, not outside game physics.
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Zoxia
Gallente
University of Caille
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Posted - 2006.10.19 09:39:00 -
[52]
whats needed is a solution thats is fair to both sides with something like this. For the most part a player whos power or what ever blinks off would not die in less than a minute.
If you are in COMBAT ( any combat )and you unplug you should have a timer. Sure there may be a few times here and there where some people may get blown up before 60 seconds. But I think more than not it wont happen.
Letting an Exploit like this exist believe or not does turn off some good PvP players to this game as well as honest players.
And no they wont lose a bunch of players because they fixed a cheat. If anything theyd gain more players because they had the nads to fix an exploit to one of the important aspects of this game PvP.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.10.19 12:27:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Awox
It's usually unescorted hauling ships moving stuff or unescorted solo-NPC-pwnmobile battleships, but sometimes it's a PvP pilot not confident in his ability to run the blocade or a PvP pilot who logged on and was forced to travel without fleet escort.
If these people can no longer fly around invulnerable to bubbles because of logoffski, invulnerable to single tacklers because of heavy nos + racks of stabs + cloak.. why would they continue playing? They wouldn't. They'd leave.
People run unescorted because its easier. Instead of waiting months for my corpmates to gather escort for my hauler, I culd just risk and run unescorted - thats tactical choice of having things done faster for price of bigger risk.
Fitting ship for better survivability versus single tackler is a tactical choice again and its offtopic too.
Logging off in bubble is using bug, wich hopefully will be removed. But I dont think people wuld leave if unable to do that.
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Ansuru Starlancer
The Phoenix Rising
Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.10.19 12:36:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Hoshino Hitomi
Originally by: Blazde
f) Differentiating Genuine Disconnects from Lame Disconnects
It's been said before (in a devblog or somewhere) that there's no way to differentiate between someone closing the client and disconnecting, but anyone remotely familar with windows programming knows this isn't the case because cleanup code is executed. That code needs to start imforming the server when a player closes his client intentionally, and that information needs to be used to decide on which timers are activated and to assist in dishing out bans as above. Sure it won't stop people who pull their network cable out fom faking disconnects, but it will slow down the simpletons.
Does this include alt-ctrl-del -> end process/end process tree? My knowledge of windows coding is somewhat lacking.
There isn't a way to tell the difference between power going out in your neighborhood and you pulling the network cable out of your box ;)
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Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.10.19 12:58:00 -
[55]
Besides, theres no way to tell if someone didnt just need to go away.
I quit game or go afk when baby wakes and cries, wich happens 2 to 20 times in my avarage few hour gaming session. If tons of sudden quits (many in hot situations, because I try and try again to get some tiny kills) wuld classify me for ban for chating, I wuld go play diffrent MMORPG simply (or even do something productive!).
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Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.19 14:25:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon
Besides, theres no way to tell if someone didnt just need to go away.
I quit game or go afk when baby wakes and cries, wich happens 2 to 20 times in my avarage few hour gaming session. If tons of sudden quits (many in hot situations, because I try and try again to get some tiny kills) wuld classify me for ban for chating, I wuld go play diffrent MMORPG simply (or even do something productive!).
Shouldnt get you banned, should have a good chance of getting you killed, nothing more. Longer timers overall and login-reactivation delays need to go in.
Old blog |
Master OlavPancrazio
Einherjar Rising
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.19 19:46:00 -
[57]
At least twice a day I'll catch an iteron-mark v or something of that nature in a interdicter bubble as it jumps in from a gate. Twice a day the caught hauler will simply log to save his ship.
As it is now, it's not an exploit, and there isn't anything I can do about it.
It's fairly annoying.
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Zoxia
Gallente
University of Caille
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Posted - 2006.10.20 02:25:00 -
[58]
In truth?? yes its an exploit of the games mechanics.
Its basically no different than duping an item because most of the time the said ship would be destroyed.
But :) its nice to know that you can simply UNPLUG when you dont want to lose your 300 + million dollar ship and the billion or so in goods inside.
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Kalamurii Izanthor
Soldiers Of Darkness
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.20 03:25:00 -
[59]
You nknow who would be SCREWED the most if these fixes were implemented?
BURN EDEN
Thye use all of those exploits on an alliance wide scale.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.10.20 09:01:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon
Besides, theres no way to tell if someone didnt just need to go away.
I quit game or go afk when baby wakes and cries, wich happens 2 to 20 times in my avarage few hour gaming session. If tons of sudden quits (many in hot situations, because I try and try again to get some tiny kills) wuld classify me for ban for chating, I wuld go play diffrent MMORPG simply (or even do something productive!).
Shouldnt get you banned, should have a good chance of getting you killed, nothing more. Longer timers overall and login-reactivation delays need to go in.
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