Originally by: Danii

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Limit the number of missions an agent can give out? Are you having a laugh?

How about limiting the number of times you can commit an act of aggression per DT?

</carebear>

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 16/10/2006 15:53:47

Originally by: Danii

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Limit the number of missions an agent can give out? Are you having a laugh?

How about limiting the number of times you can commit an act of aggression per DT?

</carebear>

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If that causes lag, sure! Everytime a misher aggros an NPC, minus one from aggression counter. Too many NPCs are killed, misher waits until next DT.

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Originally by: d026

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Edited by: d026 on 16/10/2006 15:53:35
the more simple solution without ****ing off the majority of mission runners would be simply to add more high quality agents arround not so crowded systems.

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Mission runners (mishers) + overcrowding = lag.

1) Move agents? Does not help much.

2) Impose limited number of missions allowed per agent per DT? Too many mishers use the same agent and agent has no more missions to give out until next respawn.

Limited resource is good. Limited resource encourages PvP. Limited resource can spread out people. Think mishers as high sec miners. Limited Omber encourages miners to search and kill Omber elsewhere.

Nice idea?

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Originally by: Nicoli Voldkif

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Edited by: Nicoli Voldkif on 16/10/2006 15:56:08
better is:

1. global pool of LP for a given NPC agent corp

2. Multiple agents of the same lvl/type/quality spread around the space.

The reason mission runners use certain agents are because

1. They are the best lvl/quality combo
2. They already have LPs with them

the above solves that and let us mission runners spread out to systems that are less laggy.

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Originally by: Nicoli Voldkif

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Edited by: Nicoli Voldkif on 16/10/2006 15:56:08
better is:

1. global pool of LP for a given NPC agent corp

2. Multiple agents of the same lvl/type/quality spread around the space.

The reason mission runners use certain agents are because

1. They are the best lvl/quality combo
2. They already have LPs with them

the above solves that and let us mission runners spread out to systems that are less laggy.

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Originally by: Pakalolo

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Edited by: Pakalolo on 16/10/2006 16:08:40
ccp have their answer, and I don't think they're interested in (y)ours right now. It's called exploration. Patience.

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Originally by: lofty29

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Lower the number of mission rats, raise their toughness?

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Originally by: Kyar

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dont move alot agents to low sec for gods sake, its laggy to the point of unplayablity(sp?) as it is.

delete every bm within 100km of every gate from the servers will fix this.

remove the option of copying bms. as we all know certain corps/alliances copy copious amounts of bms to lag out a system/node. this will stop this.

have warp directly to gates option

problem solved, no more lag. until the player base gets too big for servers ofc.

oh, and make wcs a high slot module while ur at it :)

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Originally by: Danii

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 16/10/2006 15:53:47

Originally by: Danii

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Limit the number of missions an agent can give out? Are you having a laugh?

How about limiting the number of times you can commit an act of aggression per DT?

</carebear>

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If that causes lag, sure! Everytime a misher aggros an NPC, minus one from aggression counter. Too many NPCs are killed, misher waits until next DT.

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No, I meant aggroing another player character; it's these damn PvP blobs that cause the lag :-P

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Quote:

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Creana > u`r momma is so fat , that BOB mistaken her for a region and claimed her

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Mission runners (mishers) + overcrowding = lag.

1) Move agents? Does not help much.

2) Impose limited number of missions allowed per agent per DT? Too many mishers use the same agent and agent has no more missions to give out until next respawn.

Limited resource is good. Limited resource encourages PvP. Limited resource can spread out people. Think mishers as high sec miners. Limited Omber encourages miners to search and kill Omber elsewhere.

Nice idea?

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Originally by: Cipher7

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Not really a good idea.

Just spread out the agents more.

If necessary add more highsec sectors.

What really kills highsec isn't the missions, it's the hubs.

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Originally by: Miri Tirzan

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Mission runners (mishers) + overcrowding = lag.

1) Move agents? Does not help much.

2) Impose limited number of missions allowed per agent per DT? Too many mishers use the same agent and agent has no more missions to give out until next respawn.

Limited resource is good. Limited resource encourages PvP. Limited resource can spread out people. Think mishers as high sec miners. Limited Omber encourages miners to search and kill Omber elsewhere.

Nice idea?

---

Not really, just another nerf to try in get players in to low sec and 0.0, both of which most players dont want to go for good reason.

In 0.0 the alliances pretty much kill anyone not a member or having an agreement. In low sec, all the wanna be pvp'er live that want targets, not fights. Now I am lucky and a member of a great corp and alliance, even if I am a lousy fighter, and going to 0.0 is not a big deal. But other than fighting, ratting, or mining, what is there to do out there.

In the risk vs reward equation, if there really was risk vs reward in this game, low sec is the worse place to go and any move to further nerf high sec to produce more targets for gate gankers is counter productive.

Why would anyone that only plays casually want to toss away weeks or months worth of effort just so a gate ganker can get thier jollies?

Now when Kali add the ability to actually establish a player empire, set up station taxes, and having standing actually matter, then there will be a reason for alliances to allow empire corps in, since they will make ISK of of them, but till then there is no reason to go.

To sum my postion up, Nerfs are not the way to influence the player base. Add more to low sec or nerf gate ganking and make pirates have to fight away from the gates and people may go into low sec.

This is my opinion and not that of my corp or alliance

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Originally by: Trahern Twrgadarn

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If they get rid of the current 'best agent' system them people would (hoprfully) spread out, I doubt anyone enjoys enjoys the laggy experience.

Also they could restrict the amount of people allowed in a system at 1 time, which would help shed loads with the blob wars in low sec and save the nodes.

Or put a restriction on pilots per system, period.

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Originally by: robacz

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Mission runners (mishers) + overcrowding = lag.

1) Move agents? Does not help much.

2) Impose limited number of missions allowed per agent per DT? Too many mishers use the same agent and agent has no more missions to give out until next respawn.

Limited resource is good. Limited resource encourages PvP. Limited resource can spread out people. Think mishers as high sec miners. Limited Omber encourages miners to search and kill Omber elsewhere.

Nice idea?

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What about

1) fix and optimize the code
2) buy more hardware

instead of nerfing game for specific groups of players. I think CCP likes my idea, cos they are already doing it.

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Originally by: lofty29

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Uhm, spreading it out will just cause more hubs. Sure, we'll be less laggy for the time being, but once more members appear, BAM, you then have 10 500 man hubs. And 'Just spread out the agents more' is a very stupid argument, considering CCP already did that, and it made it worse. Before there were say 5 or 6 high quality l4 agents in hisec per emprie. They left a decent quality one in hisec for most empires, and everybody moved to that, thus clustering people together.

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Originally by: Nicoli Voldkif

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Originally by: Kyar

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dont move alot agents to low sec for gods sake, its laggy to the point of unplayablity(sp?) as it is.

delete every bm within 100km of every gate from the servers will fix this.

remove the option of copying bms. as we all know certain corps/alliances copy copious amounts of bms to lag out a system/node. this will stop this.

have warp directly to gates option

problem solved, no more lag. until the player base gets too big for servers ofc.

oh, and make wcs a high slot module while ur at it :)

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deleting BMs won't work. Its a flawed idea. Similiar to having any other program on your harddrive doesn't cause you computer to slow down. The issue with BMs is specifically in the realm of copying them and the amount of transactions that the system must do in order to complete the coping.

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Originally by: Nicoli Voldkif

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Originally by: Kyar

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dont move alot agents to low sec for gods sake, its laggy to the point of unplayablity(sp?) as it is.

delete every bm within 100km of every gate from the servers will fix this.

remove the option of copying bms. as we all know certain corps/alliances copy copious amounts of bms to lag out a system/node. this will stop this.

have warp directly to gates option

problem solved, no more lag. until the player base gets too big for servers ofc.

oh, and make wcs a high slot module while ur at it :)

---

deleting BMs won't work. Its a flawed idea. Similiar to having any other program on your harddrive doesn't cause you computer to slow down. The issue with BMs is specifically in the realm of copying them and the amount of transactions that the system must do in order to complete the coping.

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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At the end there will always be overcrowding and whatever CCP does will have limitations. Think one house and you keep inviting people into house. House is now too crowded. Renovate house for more space. Continue inviting people into house. Renovate house again. There is a limit at the end of the day.

I do not know CCP's node balancing algorithm but spreading people is good for the cluster. Less load/lag spikes when people are evenly spread out?

Is not EvE about Risks vs Rewards? Is not EvE about players fighting for resources? Missions have no limitations. Asteroids, complexes, HACs, Command ships, 0.0 supplies, whatever have limited resources.

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Originally by: Cipher7

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Well it's inevitable that as the population goes up, more and more of the universe is going to be laggy.

Take those high quality agents and spread em around.

What would be the effect of having at least 1 high quality level 4 agent in every highsec sector?

Again, it's not the actual agents that make things laggy.

It's the fact that everyone goes to hubs to SHOP. Nobody wants to run around to 50 different places to get ships and modules, they want 1 stop shopping.

Last I heard it's not the mission runners causing nodes to crash, it's the 0.0 blobs, nerf them.

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Originally by: robacz

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I think current hardware is far from its limits, problems are caused by software. Well engineered system can be infinitely scalable. I think biggest problem atm is disability to relocate resources dynamically and 1 system / 1 cpu limitation (maybe that was already removed in Dragon?). If they can resolve these two problems, just simple adding of hardware will let the cluster grow with its playerbase.

Solving server problems by annoying players with longer travelling distances or nerfing their proffesions is not good way imo. If they want to stay on hubs and play with other 500 ppl in system, CCP should find a way how to do it without lag.

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00000000000000000000000000000000 Maximum node capacity.
--------Jita--------***S3*** Node 1
-----Rens-----xxxxHodroldxxxxx Node 2
xAZNx--1V-LI2--++N-Rael++ Node 3
zzzS1zzzz\\\S2\\\ Node 4

00000000000000000000000000000000 Maximum node capacity.
----------Jita---------- Node 1
-----Rens-----xxxxHodroldxxxxx Node 2
xAZNx--1V-LI2--++N-Rael++ Node 3
\\\\\\S2\\\\\\***S3*** Node 4
zzzzzzzzzzzzS1zzzzzzzzzzzzzz Node 5

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Is not EvE about Risks vs Rewards? Is not EvE about players fighting for resources? Missions have no limitations. Asteroids, complexes, HACs, Command ships, 0.0 supplies, whatever have limited resources.

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Originally by: lofty29

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0.0 blobs finish off the inevitable crashes of the game world.
But you say it's people shopping in oursu / jita / rens / amarr that cause the lag? Wrong. They are all on their own nodes now (afaik) and jita even has 2 support nodes on it. It's the obscene amount of NPCs generated on a single node when 60 odd mission runners are doing missions at the same time. Think 40 - 50 per mission runner (on average, though can be between about 5 and 100) and times that by 60. Add all the damage calculations and you have a messy mix of overloaded servers. Moving the agents wont do jack either, as all of the mission running hubs (Dodixie, uhhm that caldari one I pirated in for a bit, etc) are all a loong way from each other. You move the agent, and the carebears will follow it.

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Originally by: Cipher7

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Is not EvE about Risks vs Rewards? Is not EvE about players fighting for resources? Missions have no limitations. Asteroids, complexes, HACs, Command ships, 0.0 supplies, whatever have limited resources.

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Let's limit the rats in 0.0, once you kill all the rats you have to wait for DT to have em respawn.

Let's limit 10/10 complexes, you can only do em once a day, they respawn at DT.

Let's limit piracy. Once you attack 3 players, your guns lock down and you have to wait till DT to attack someone else.

If Eve is about risk/reward then they did a really crummy job of it.

0.0 is less dangerous than some parts of highsec and also has the most resources.

Lowsec is the most dangerous territory in Eve, there is literally nothing down there that justifies the danger.

If the rats in lowsec paid oh about 5 times what they do now, you might attract some people.

IIRC last time I was in lowsec, an hour of ratting in a rifter in .3 paid about 1 mil an hour.

I ratted for about 2 hours and was attacked no less than 6 times.

You call that risk/reward?

Gee a whole mil to have to deal with armies of bottom-feeding a$$holes looking for easy kills for an hour, where do I sign up.

The whole concept behind lowsec was, there'd be an occaisional pirate or two, and %99 of the time it would be relatively peaceful to allow you to accumulate enough cash to fight off the next pirate incursion.

The way most lowsec is now, unless you're actually part of a pirate band or a lowsec corp, you don't have TIME to generate resources to make a profit and also pay for the equipment that you'll lose defending yourself.

The simple fact of the matter is that piracy is fun and easy, and that there are ALOT of pirates in Eve.

Now I'm not blaming pirates, I think piracy is a hell of a lot more fun than 0.0 alliance life.

But as far as game design goes, there are too many pirates in Eve for any kind of civilian society to sustain itself in lowsec.

So...lowsec is out....to tap into resources in 0.0 you need either a BC/BS or a cruiser with uber skills.

So where is the average player supposed to get the resources they need to make a push into lowsec or 0.0?

Highsec missions of course.

Do you get it now?

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Originally by: Taram Caldar

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Dunno about limiting all those things to DT but I will say this:
Lowsec risk vs. reward is out of wack.

But your statement about 0.0 is incorrect. With roughly 4 months of training you can be making good profits in 0.0 with a cruiser fitted for ratting. You will EASILY make more in any given evening than the cruiser, and all it's fittings, cost you. In 2 hours, in a caracal, I can make over 10m ISK. That's with fittings that cost under 3m total So a 7m ISK ship I make 10m ISK in 2hrs or so. Matter of fact I even re-invested my profits into my cruiser and it can take up to 650k BS spawns now w/o any real difficulty. So it's now about a 15m ISK cruiser and in 2-3 hours I can more than recoup THAT cost as well. I now have 3 fully kitted cruisers stashed in my 0.0 base of operations in case of deaths so that I don't have to spend time re-fitting if I ever die. I also now have a Ferox since I can afford to lose one now. I tend to Rat in the Ferox now and am in the process of trying to refit the cruisers for PvP. (Though caracals aren't really all that great for PVP, I may have to figure out something else).

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Originally by: Ravenal

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implement this:
- contact your agents from "wherever" (stations - include skill or something if you want.)
o The higher level the agent the farther away they can be contacted
- introduce agent timers again - higher level agent = longer time.
o add to them that the lower the sec rating of the system the mission will be performed in the faster the timer ticks.
- Add low sec bonus to missions. 0.5+ missions already get low bonuses due to high sec rating and "punishi\
ng" people isnt the correct way of doing things. Instead double the bonuses for 0.4- missions.

This will result in what?
- lower level agents will only be contactable in higher sec space but their mission timer and crappy rewards will make sure people strife for higher level agents
- most people crowding up in 0.5 to avoid low sec when doing missions? No, the temptation of going to lower sec due to increased rewards and agent timer in high sec space times high level agent timer should result in some wait periods for high sec high lvl mishers while low sec mission runners dont have to worry as much about the timer (if at all)

overcrowding low space to get uber missions and rewards ... is that bad? - i mean you can always "fix" that problem... unlike high sec space.

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Originally by: Tuxford

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Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us

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Quote:

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10/10 complexes spawn three times a day. RA fights for this resource like nobody. Agents have no resource limitations and overcrowding does not help.

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Originally by: Roy Batty68

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Adding more same quality agents to the currently empty empire systems would spread players out more. It's not like mission runners enjoy the lag.

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 16/10/2006 18:59:02

Mission runners (mishers) + overcrowding = lag.

1) Move agents? Does not help much.

2) Impose limited number of missions allowed per agent per DT/random? Too many mishers use the same agent and agent has no more missions to give out until next respawn.

Limited resource is good. Limited resource encourages PvP. Limited resource can spread out people. Think mishers as high sec miners. Limited Omber encourages miners to search and kill Omber elsewhere.

Nice idea?

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Originally by: Hectaire Glade

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Another stupid idea Jenny, well done.

Mission runners make up a significant portion of the revenue for CCP, doing things which negatively affect the mission runner (aka part time casual player in most cases) will result in a lot of people going to other games. Bad Bad Bad.

EVE is about the balance between PVP and PVE, negatively affecting one part or the other impacts the whole game, both at the player level economics and the revenue stream to CCP.

Best suggestion in this thread is for CORP RP pools and for effective agent quality to increase the more missions you run for them + a modifier for system security status. Spreading out the agent use is not a bad thing, forcing restrictions on players is.

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Originally by: Hectaire Glade

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Another stupid idea Jenny, well done.

Mission runners make up a significant portion of the revenue for CCP, doing things which negatively affect the mission runner (aka part time casual player in most cases) will result in a lot of people going to other games. Bad Bad Bad.

EVE is about the balance between PVP and PVE, negatively affecting one part or the other impacts the whole game, both at the player level economics and the revenue stream to CCP.

Best suggestion in this thread is for CORP RP pools and for effective agent quality to increase the more missions you run for them + a modifier for system security status. Spreading out the agent use is not a bad thing, forcing restrictions on players is.

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Originally by: Ozzie Asrail

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Remove all ore except veld + scordite from > 0.5
Remove all lvl3+ agents from >0.5
Give all agents fixed no. of missions.

Sorted

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Originally by: Hectaire Glade

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Another stupid idea Jenny, well done.

Mission runners make up a significant portion of the revenue for CCP, doing things which negatively affect the mission runner (aka part time casual player in most cases) will result in a lot of people going to other games. Bad Bad Bad.

EVE is about the balance between PVP and PVE, negatively affecting one part or the other impacts the whole game, both at the player level economics and the revenue stream to CCP.

Best suggestion in this thread is for CORP RP pools and for effective agent quality to increase the more missions you run for them + a modifier for system security status. Spreading out the agent use is not a bad thing, forcing restrictions on players is.

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I am a miner, I have to compete with other miners for Omber.
I am a NPCer, I have to compete with other NPCers for a quiet and good system.
I am a complex runner, I have to compete with other complex runners for keys and access.
I am a builder, I have to compete with other builders for stuffs.
I am a mission runner, I do not need to compete with other mission runners for missions.

I think I am stupid because I can not see a problem.

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Originally by: CyberGh0st

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Originally by: Hectaire Glade

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Another stupid idea Jenny, well done.

Mission runners make up a significant portion of the revenue for CCP, doing things which negatively affect the mission runner (aka part time casual player in most cases) will result in a lot of people going to other games. Bad Bad Bad.

EVE is about the balance between PVP and PVE, negatively affecting one part or the other impacts the whole game, both at the player level economics and the revenue stream to CCP.

Best suggestion in this thread is for CORP RP pools and for effective agent quality to increase the more missions you run for them + a modifier for system security status. Spreading out the agent use is not a bad thing, forcing restrictions on players is.

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I am a miner, I have to compete with other miners for Omber.
I am a NPCer, I have to compete with other NPCers for a quiet and good system.
I am a complex runner, I have to compete with other complex runners for keys and access.
I am a builder, I have to compete with other builders for stuffs.
I am a mission runner, I do not need to compete with other mission runners for missions.

I think I am stupid because I can not see a problem.

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Err I thought this was about lag, but you show your true colors, newbie ganker ...

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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I am a miner, I have to compete with other miners for Omber.
I am a NPCer, I have to compete with other NPCers for a quiet and good system.
I am a complex runner, I have to compete with other complex runners for keys and access.
I am a builder, I have to compete with other builders for stuffs.
I am a mission runner, I do not need to compete with other mission runners for missions.

I think I am stupid because I can not see a problem.

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Originally by: Taram Caldar

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4) Not much you can do about the shopping DB queries, they're necessary for the functionality of the game. Maybe just optimize how they're handled a bit.
5) fix the escrow system. It's got to be one of the cludgiest queries there are. For one set it so that you can select your filters BEFORE it queries against the escrow database. That alone would go a LONG way to reducing that particular DB query from hell. I don't ALWAYS want to query right away. I really want to open escrow, choose my query type THEN run the query. Not automaticaly run whatever query I ran last time. This would help reduce lag too.

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Quote:

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I am a builder, I have to compete with other builders for stuffs.

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