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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1416
   |
Posted - 2015.05.10 16:05:59 -
[31] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:But first you gotta catch him. Good luck.
Its only luck if it happens just once. |
Ares Desideratus
Star Children Of Cain
230
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 19:24:49 -
[32] - Quote
A couple people suggested using drones against a kiting Garmur, such as using Warrior 2s to chase him down. As far as I know drones are almost totally unreliable chasing down a fast frigate because even if they do manage to catch up to the frigate, they then turn off their MWD and get left behind and have to begin chasing all over again and this leads to basically no applied DPS, is this wrong? Do Warrior IIs capable of chasing down MWDing Garmurs and such?
enjoy every moment or some one else will enjoy it for you
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Chessur
Mining Industry Exile Foundation
Warlords of the Deep
532
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 20:13:44 -
[33] - Quote
wilgotna wrote:alright i was wrong about the slicers capabilities
youve proven that a very specific frigate fit is capable of applying dps at a garmur's main engagement range
now the question is: what is stopping the garmur from warping out the instant he sees the slicer is beam fit and hitting him at 50k?
Except the beam slicer is not a very specific fit. Its just a slicer. And a heated MWD slicer can run down a garmur if you time your heat cycles correctly. When I am flying a slicer, I fear very few frigates. The garmur is not one of them. Even linked and snaked..... I kill him, or he runs away in low struct. Garmurs are not strong frigates, and many of the 'top tier' frigates crush them quite easily. I dislike the talk of a 'linked + snaked' garmur because, if you are willing to give those boosts to one frig- you should do the same for the other.
At the end of the day, you need a frigate that cna burn quickly (or has projection) that is being piloted by a competent pilot to kill or force off 99% of garmurs you may see. |
Chessur
Mining Industry Exile Foundation
Warlords of the Deep
533
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 20:16:50 -
[34] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:Unlinked and unsnaked, Garmurs are relatively trivial to kill. Basically anything that can catch it with a scram will kill it, also other kiters which can keep up with it's speed and project to a good distance (beam slicers) will also easily kill it. Also any RLML ship will chase it off with relative ease although you won't be able to hold it down.
However, with HG Snakes, proper links and a competent pilot (this is quite rare tbh), Garmurs are pretty much unkillable. They can orbit up to 50+km, have 25k defensive scrams meaning that anything faster than it with a scram will have no chance of catching it (here's where the competent pilot part comes in, if you just hit orbit and afk then you will get caught quite easily even if you defensive scram since they will be able to coast, but a smart garmur pilot will just double click away from you so when you get hit by the defensive scram @ 25k, he will be miles off before you can 'coast' anywhere). They are immune pretty much all types of anti frigate weapons like drones, LML and RLML. The only thing that could reliably catch it, hold it down, and kill it will probably be a linked Keres + Hyena team or another HG Snaked linked Garmur.
Things like rails/beams have a chance of driving them away (you will still miss alot), similarly damps will definitely cause them to run, but they cannot be killed, only pushed off or forced to warp.
That being said good Garmur pilots are rare and most will just lazy orbit since that still works great, so assuming you're also snaked and linked most snaked/linked Garmur pilots can still be caught with some good old fashioned slingshotting with faster frigates like the Dram or Daredevil. Even t1 attack frigs would work but Garmurs do a fair bit of dps so it will get quite dicey while you're burning in to catch them, same goes for ceptors.
Also as a bit of an aside- at no point, do rails or beams have problems hitting a frigate at 40K. Certainly one that has no MWD sig bloom bonus, and is more than likely rocking a shield tank. Even the most basic of manual piloting will have you hitting for full damge. A 25K defensive scram is not enough to live. Slicer will point and kill you from that range in a hand ful of shots, and other frigates with that type of range (rail DD / rail Comet) can do the same. |
Ahed Sten
8
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Posted - 2015.05.10 20:28:54 -
[35] - Quote
Ares Desideratus wrote:A couple people suggested using drones against a kiting Garmur, such as using Warrior 2s to chase him down. As far as I know drones are almost totally unreliable chasing down a fast frigate because even if they do manage to catch up to the frigate, they then turn off their MWD and get left behind and have to begin chasing all over again and this leads to basically no applied DPS, is this wrong? Do Warrior IIs capable of chasing down MWDing Garmurs and such?
I was going to mention this as well but wasn't really sure about how the Garmur handles drones with its small buffer tank and missiles.
From my experience flying Slicers, though, I can tell you that drones are a non issue 90% of the time. I typically fly pulse fits and there's more than enough tracking to shoot them down anywhere between 5 and 30km. It's a lot easier if you get them at range and the SAAR helps with tanking them.
Only Slicer i've lost specifically to drones was actually a few days ago.....I will just say that Geckos are bastards. |
wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
42
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 22:15:57 -
[36] - Quote
you would only kill a tard who has a reaction time of greater than 10 seconds, and force off garmurs that didnt have the proper fit to counter your fit. so thats just a fit versus fit issue.
furthermore a slicer can only lock at 50k, 55k with links. which is hilarious considering a garmur can hold, and kill you past that range with the right fit
glancing at your killboard for 2 minutes showed me:
-you almost never solo
-the only garmur kills you have recently are against sh1tters in null. their fits were awful. and you gangbanged them with your "bringing solo back" friends.... an amusing irony btw |
Ahed Sten
8
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Posted - 2015.05.10 22:29:54 -
[37] - Quote
wilgotna wrote:you would only kill a tard who has a reaction time of greater than 10 seconds, and force off garmurs that didnt have the proper fit to counter your fit. so thats just a fit versus fit issue.
furthermore a slicer can only lock at 50k, 55k with links. which is hilarious considering a garmur can hold, and kill you past that range with the right fit
glancing at your killboard for 2 minutes showed me:
-you almost never solo
-the only garmur kills you have recently are against sh1tters in null. their fits were awful. and you gangbanged them with your "bringing solo back" friends.... an amusing irony btw
This is either quite funny or quite sad, i'm not really sure which.
Also I don't know wtf you're looking at, but a Slicer with info links has a lock range of 70km, or 75km with a Caldari Navy Mindlink.
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wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
42
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Posted - 2015.05.10 22:31:46 -
[38] - Quote
i wasnt talking to you, i was talking to chester
also im not sure anyone actually runs info links. i was referring to a simple squad commander |
Ahed Sten
8
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Posted - 2015.05.10 22:43:25 -
[39] - Quote
I give up |
Chessur
Mining Industry Exile Foundation
Warlords of the Deep
535
|
Posted - 2015.05.10 23:40:49 -
[40] - Quote
wilgotna wrote:you would only kill a tard who has a reaction time of greater than 10 seconds, and force off garmurs that didnt have the proper fit to counter your fit. so thats just a fit versus fit issue.
furthermore a slicer can only lock at 50k, 55k with links. which is hilarious considering a garmur can hold, and kill you past that range with the right fit
glancing at your killboard for 2 minutes showed me:
-you almost never solo
-the only garmur kills you have recently are against sh1tters in null. their fits were awful. and you gangbanged them with your "bringing solo back" friends.... an amusing irony btw
Im not sure if you are trolling, or if you are indeed this misguided.
In regards to your MWD statement and reaction time of 10 seconds, this again is pointing towards your inexperience. Because what you are saying is again, not true. your MWD has a cycle time of 10sec yes. However if I start heating, my unlinked slicer is going to be going 6ks+ and closing range on your garmur. during the entirety of those 10 seconds, along with the 2/3+ seconds you need to then start your own heat cycle, accelerate to heated speed and start moving away- i am gaining space on you. A Beam slicer with Heated Standard will hit you at 43K for around 180DPS. And 50K 150DPS with aurora. They will kill you well within 8/10 seconds. There is no competent garmur fit that counters a slicer. Sorry. If you specific fit, with TDs and what not- sure
Slicer lock range is more than enough to deal with a garmur. Unless they are fitting lock range rigs- they are either completely fail fit ie. Seebo in the mids) or have info links. Either way, the garmur is not kiting the slicer. Assuming 1 T2 ionic rig, and links (no info)- garmur is locking to 50K Throw links in there, and yah it can get well above the slicer. However if you give Info + skirmish links to the garmur, give them to the slicer as well :) When you do that- your poorly thought out argument falls apart. A non info (non fail fit) garmur has about the same lock range as an unlinked slicer. Even when the garmur is given into links, skimirsh links, and proper fitting- you are looking at 60K lock range. Its just not enough. If you slightly even the field, and give the slicer links as well- its a non issue.
Lastly, with only 3 rig slots to work with you will face a small problem. you can use two slots for your locking range (to get you out around heated (linked RF point range)- but if you do that, you need to throw on a hydraulic bay thrustor. otherwise your missiles can't reach your kiting range. When you do this, your entire tank is an MSE with 0% em. Your tank is nothing. You can drop rig slots to fit EM screens. Doing so will then reduce your overall lock range, or reduce your overall missile flight range. If any of those things occur, your garmur can no longer hurt me out side my lock range.
If i am infact being kited by a garmur, the solution is very simple. Just start burning away. When I do this, his missile range is reduced SIGNIFICANTLY. Even with the addition of hydraulic bay thrustors, your garmer needs to close well within 50K to actually apply damage. At this point, I again will out damage and kill you with a simple sling shot.
A garmur, is not going to be holding a slicer down- or killing it. And that is the last post I will be making in this thread.
You are very obtuse, I would love to 1v1 you. Please come to thera. I would love to fight your garmur.
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wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
42
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Posted - 2015.05.11 01:07:38 -
[41] - Quote
Chester you are biased. You continually apply your game knowledge to your slicer but not to your opponent.
I've been arguing this whole thread and a different thread that what makes a garmur overpowered is links and snakes.
If you take into account that links work multiplicatively then it becomes obvious that the optimal garmur fit is sebo/scram or double sebo depending on what the pilot wishes to make their engagement profile. Also double t2 missile speed rigs.
The garmurs tank should be it's absurd range and speed. Not shield boosters. The instant something demonstrates that it has capability to touch the garmur at its ideal range then the pilot should warp out imediately. I assure you garmurs align faster than 8 seconds. |
Angry Ex
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.05.11 04:23:47 -
[42] - Quote
Saw a newbro in help chat asking how to fit and fly a Garmur.
Folks said " don't, they're expensive and you should skill up more" He replies, "that's OK, I bought 10 of them."
This thread is popular. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1416
|
Posted - 2015.05.11 07:07:40 -
[43] - Quote
wilgotna wrote:Chester you are biased. You continually apply your game knowledge to your slicer but not to your opponent.
I've been arguing this whole thread and a different thread that what makes a garmur overpowered is links and snakes.
If you take into account that links work multiplicatively then it becomes obvious that the optimal garmur fit is sebo/scram or double sebo depending on what the pilot wishes to make their engagement profile. Also double t2 missile speed rigs.
The garmurs tank should be it's absurd range and speed. Not shield boosters. The instant something demonstrates that it has capability to touch the garmur at its ideal range then the pilot should warp out imediately. I assure you garmurs align faster than 8 seconds.
Glad to see you are starting to like my garmur fit after saying that no defscram is fail earlier :) You can use it as well as my maulus fit if you like.
And chicken chessur does not fight people with boosts, after killing his anti frig faction cruiser in a t1 frig he blocks you for saying gf. then rages in game, then on the forums then goes back to skynet camping with duel boosts because when he uses game mechanics its ok, but not so much for others :)
gf chicken chessur, gf. |
Ares Desideratus
Star Children Of Cain
231
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Posted - 2015.05.11 13:44:01 -
[44] - Quote
His point was that if you want to compare the stats of one ship with links, it is only fair to give the other ship links as well. You can't just throw links on something and say "see? It's better", because every ship in the game is capable of being boosted.
Also if someone is flying unlinked you can't really blame them for not wanting to fight someone with links. If everything else is equal the guy with fleet bonuses will win.
I don't fly Slicers or Garmurs so I can't really say which is better, but I would hope that the Garmur would win in the end, I mean it's at least a couple tiers above the Slicer in terms of rank and cost, so logically it should be the all around superior combat vessel.
Still, Chessur's point stands, I think. Many Garmurs can be destroyed using the Slicer, maybe it's just because most Garmurs are terrible but it's still the truth.
If you want to be the champ you gotta beat the champ. If you wanna destroy an elite ship you gotta use an elite ship and / or elite tactics and strategy.
enjoy every moment or some one else will enjoy it for you
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wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
45
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Posted - 2015.05.11 14:20:50 -
[45] - Quote
i cant understand why people keep saying "one ship with links is the same as another ship with links!@!!@!"
NO
ive already explained that it's because links work off percentages
so a garmur with an rf point gets a WAY BETTER bonus from links than an ordinary frigate does |
Ares Desideratus
Star Children Of Cain
231
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Posted - 2015.05.11 14:34:27 -
[46] - Quote
The Garmur isn't an ordinary frigate... What about the Daredevil and the Succubus ? Those ships must have dramatic performance enhancements from the use of links.
Still I can see where their mode of operations pales in comparison to teh Garmur. The ship's style really is the pinnacle of what a combat ship should be isn't it? Expertly piloted the thing is damn near untouchable.
What pisses me off most though is the Cruor. That ship is still so crap. CCP think they can throw 1 freaking drone on it and that makes it usable?
"Hey, we're sorry the Cruor is so crap. We'll add a drone bay with 1 drone on it, that'll make it better" . What the hell are we supposed to do with that 1 drone? The ship is pathetic.
enjoy every moment or some one else will enjoy it for you
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Ares Desideratus
Star Children Of Cain
231
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Posted - 2015.05.11 15:28:38 -
[47] - Quote
Also no one said "one ship with links is the same as another ship with links" what Chessur said was that if you give stats with links for one ship you must do the same for the next ship.
I haven't flown anything but Amarr ships in a long time, but it seems to me like the Daredevil would make the perfect counter to a Garmur. The Daredevil is faster, has a 90% webbing power, and with a Fed Navy web and a "proper" fitting and technique it should be able to prey on Garmur's pretty easily shouldn't it?
enjoy every moment or some one else will enjoy it for you
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
986
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Posted - 2015.05.14 15:31:44 -
[48] - Quote
Any long range fit cruiser, battlecruiser or battle ship has a good chance of popping a garmur. You have to time it though. Watch the garmur's transversal and speed, put a target painter on him and wait. When either transversal or speed become less than 10 it's time to start firing. If an arty anything hit's him once - it's over. The trick is to lock and paint then apply patience. Wait for that moment of low speed and/or transversal. Poof. Don't just lock and start shooting - you have to wait for the garmur pilot to help you.
This is especially true if you have friends that are attempting to tackle him. Manual garmur piloting becomes your friend at this point. 50 is a good speed number and 35 is a good transversal number if the garmur pilot is running a mwd. If you catch the guy slowning in a turn - PAPOOF.
I'm not sure if I have to mention it or not but this is for rails, beams and arties. It is not for any type of missile platform.
I don't fly the ishtard, but you could look into if they can track a garmur or not with sentries and the drone tracking modules. I would think yes?? It's OP, so why wouldn't it be able to blapa blapa a garmur? |
wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
45
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Posted - 2015.05.15 06:04:29 -
[49] - Quote
tard alert tard alert
dont worry im here to translate your joke of a post
"ok guys u can easily kill a garmur with a specifically fit cruiser and above, which would easily get solod by an atron with an afterburner. okay so once the garmur starts engaging your battleship. first you gotta wait to make sure he doesnt call in his gang of buddies, because hes actually planning to solo your battleship. then you gotta make sure the garmur pilot socket closes and drops his speed to 10 ms. thats your queue to FIRE BOOM HES DEAD WOOOO"
"if that doesnt work make sure you have multiple friends trying to tackle him while you sit there with your finger on the arties button. shouldnt be hard to blap that annoying garmur when you have 5 ceptors chasing him around!!!!@!@!"
"btw i dont pvp but i heard ishtars are op so those counter garmurs right?"
-quality post by serendipity |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1416
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Posted - 2015.05.15 11:01:53 -
[50] - Quote
wilgotna wrote:tard alert tard alert
Things that counter one thing are weak to another, and there is an advantage to flying in groups. THE GAME IS BROKEN!
FTFY. |
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Ares Desideratus
Simply Wild.
Frozen Karma.
245
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Posted - 2015.05.15 13:21:34 -
[51] - Quote
wilgotna wrote:tard alert tard alert
dont worry im here to translate your joke of a post
"ok guys u can easily kill a garmur with a specifically fit cruiser and above, which would easily get solod by an atron with an afterburner. okay so once the garmur starts engaging your battleship. first you gotta wait to make sure he doesnt call in his gang of buddies, because hes actually planning to solo your battleship. then you gotta make sure the garmur pilot socket closes and drops his speed to 10 ms. thats your queue to FIRE BOOM HES DEAD WOOOO"
"if that doesnt work make sure you have multiple friends trying to tackle him while you sit there with your finger on the arties button. shouldnt be hard to blap that annoying garmur when you have 5 ceptors chasing him around!!!!@!@!"
"btw i dont pvp but i heard ishtars are op so those counter garmurs right?"
-quality post by serendipity
Why you gotta be like that
swag me out and suck me off, stanking up a forum near you
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Mizhir
Matari Exodus
The Camel Empire
74373
|
Posted - 2015.05.17 12:22:16 -
[52] - Quote
Wow, you sound incredible tense wilgotna. Please show on the garmur doll where the bad slicer touched you.
One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
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wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
45
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Posted - 2015.05.17 16:48:37 -
[53] - Quote
He touched me in my exhaust port |
Triakis Cadelanne
Mount N' Do
21
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Posted - 2015.05.18 10:33:00 -
[54] - Quote
wilgotna wrote:tard alert tard alert
dont worry im here to translate your joke of a post
"ok guys u can easily kill a garmur with a specifically fit cruiser and above, which would easily get solod by an atron with an afterburner. okay so once the garmur starts engaging your battleship. first you gotta wait to make sure he doesnt call in his gang of buddies, because hes actually planning to solo your battleship. then you gotta make sure the garmur pilot socket closes and drops his speed to 10 ms. thats your queue to FIRE BOOM HES DEAD WOOOO"
"if that doesnt work make sure you have multiple friends trying to tackle him while you sit there with your finger on the arties button. shouldnt be hard to blap that annoying garmur when you have 5 ceptors chasing him around!!!!@!@!"
"btw i dont pvp but i heard ishtars are op so those counter garmurs right?"
-quality post by serendipity
You'd add some tequila with that salt .... |
Ares Desideratus
Simply Wild.
Frozen Karma.
245
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Posted - 2015.05.18 19:37:21 -
[55] - Quote
If you wanna kill a Garmur you just gotta shoot at him. Lasers are pretty good for it I find
swag me out and suck me off, stanking up a forum near you
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Burtakus
Justified Chaos
Spaceship Bebop
35
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Posted - 2015.05.18 21:39:51 -
[56] - Quote
Fed Navy Comet = a Garmur's worst nightmare. |
Christopher Mabata
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
321
|
Posted - 2015.05.19 01:06:48 -
[57] - Quote
1 word
Rapier
Garmurs kinda go poof when they get hit with multiple long range webs and then a quick volley of artillery or a burst of speed into autocannon ranges
#USA #PODSQUAD #Waitthisisn'ttwitterthenewlookconfusedme
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Corail Amber
Losing All Hope Was Freedom
27
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Posted - 2015.05.19 03:35:37 -
[58] - Quote
Christopher Mabata wrote:1 word
Rapier
Garmurs kinda go poof when they get hit with multiple long range webs and then a quick volley of artillery or a burst of speed into autocannon ranges
Once again you're suggesting a tech 2 cruiser to deal with a pirate frigate.
I only partially agree with wilgotna because I don't hink the Garmur is that op, I just think it scales way too well with links, but all those posts implying you need to either upship specifically to counter and / or bring a blob to kill a solo pirate frigate pilot are irrelevant at best, and at worst they're just confirming his point ; it's pretty ridiculous to have to upship an opponent that hard or blob him that hard just because he dumped loads of isk into his pod and link alt.
It's not really a fun and well designed gameplay perspective. |
Burtakus
Justified Chaos
Spaceship Bebop
35
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Posted - 2015.05.19 14:24:29 -
[59] - Quote
Just to see what the fuss is all about, I fit up and flew a Garmur last night. Damn this thing is awesome. I get the frustration that people would have. I think it collected the most tears from those that were used to flying pirate/faction frigs and the T3Ds. These folks went from easy mode kills to suffering a slow agonizing death at the hands of my mighty 130 dps.
The only thing i came across i had to let go was a stabber with 220 ACs that was landing hits on me out to 55km while i was burning around at 7km/s. Stabber FTW.
I still contend that a properly fit comet/firetail could really ruin my shiny toys day. I was also introduced to how effective a single sniper corm can be against a Garmur when in a small fleet fight.
Overall a solid ship but not nearly as OP as ya'll are making it out to be. If it were we would see more of them. |
Christopher Mabata
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
321
|
Posted - 2015.05.19 16:30:27 -
[60] - Quote
Corail Amber wrote:Christopher Mabata wrote:1 word
Rapier
Garmurs kinda go poof when they get hit with multiple long range webs and then a quick volley of artillery or a burst of speed into autocannon ranges Once again you're suggesting a tech 2 cruiser to deal with a pirate frigate. I only partially agree with wilgotna because I don't hink the Garmur is that op, I just think it scales way too well with links, but all those posts implying you need to either upship specifically to counter and / or bring a blob to kill a solo pirate frigate pilot are irrelevant at best, and at worst they're just confirming his point ; it's pretty ridiculous to have to upship an opponent that hard or blob him that hard just because he dumped loads of isk into his pod and link alt. It's not really a fun and well designed gameplay perspective.
In theory the T2 Electronic attack frig could do the same exact thing, plus with a TP bonus it would make short work of a garmur, the keres would do fine as well. Plus we see garmurs die to T1 frigates too so there are ways to counter them outside upsizing to a new hull class
#USA #PODSQUAD #Waitthisisn'ttwitterthenewlookconfusedme
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