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Muaddid
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Posted - 2003.11.01 00:30:00 -
[1]
after 264 boring lvl 3 missions (thats over 75h of only doing agent missions), i got my Miner II BPo, talk about being happy :P
But my happiness dropped fairly rapidly seeing how many morons have a Miner II BPo... ive been selling none-stop all the Miner IIs i make since i got the BP (beside a few ive kept for my corp) by selling at the currently average price, never undercutting anyone, at 575k isk at luminaire... and God said... it was too good to last, i shouldnt make profit over that much investisement
here enters Mr NeoChrome... guess what i see when i login ? yup Mr NeoChrome undercutted me, but not by the 1k or 5k... but by 30%... now... ive read the post asking ppl age and the average was of 20 years old... but when you look at that kind of market behavior it makes you wonder...
i know someone had a list of similar... silly people going on the forums a while ago but i cant seem to find it (yay for no search feature on the boards) so... anyone know of other peoples to add to the list ?
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Muaddid
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Posted - 2003.11.01 00:53:00 -
[2]
update : theres now 2 silly Miner II producers undercutting eachother in essence region, if you wait for tomorow they should be avaible at 50k... *rolls eyes*
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Korath
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Posted - 2003.11.01 01:23:00 -
[3]
It's about time since they dont cost that much more than a Miner I to produce in the first place. Sheesh.
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Tirael
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Posted - 2003.11.01 01:28:00 -
[4]
Totally. Not having a miner 2 BP ourselves and getting bored very quickly of the nonsense that has become agent missions, we decided to go down the "co-operative" route and secure a few longterm supply deals.
Eight days ago we secured the unlimited supply of miner2's at 1mil isk each (a great deal considering they were 1.8mil per unit at the time). Luckily the guys we were doing business with were very clued up, knowledgable and willing for a good deal and allowed a price drop to reflect market price.
2 days later we were buying them in for 500k each, under a MP of 750k. Today some muppet is putting them on the market for 400k.
My business contact, and rightly so, is getting twitchy about the terms of what was a marvellous deal for both parties.
I know I'm going to get the usual replies of "well that's competition mate", but now's the time to tell you all, that this isn't competition, this is downright stupid. The people who do the time in this game and either securing BP's through agents or conducting good business are basically being told to not bother by the system in place. That being schoolkids that have no idea how the fiscal possibilities of the game, can reflect upon the longterm success of their corp.
Just know that as the Tech 2 gets released, having a firm grip on what the term "healthy competition" means, if we get hold of a new BP and then some idiot comes along thinking they are clever by reducing the price to just above cost in a week, both myself and my allies will hunt them down and deliver their corpse to the Financial authorities.
For free.
Thank god Battleship production is somewhat immune to this nonsense that we are seeing due to process being out of reach of the schoolkids as a result of the time and effort involved. Maybe if they didn't squander the opportunities they have been given, they could all get into Battleship production instead of taking all the money out of the game and forcing everyone to be pirates in order to have any fun.
Madness.
The only completely consistent people are dead. - Aldous Huxley |
Enraku Reynolt
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Posted - 2003.11.01 04:03:00 -
[5]
tech 2 will clean this sort of problem a bit cause the people that will take the time to research and get the higher techs wont be so quick to slash profit mergins to worthless levels ------------------------------------------------ Do not let the world change you. Change the world
Here's everything I know about war: somebody wins, somebody loses, and nothing is ever the sa |
Fred0
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Posted - 2003.11.01 10:55:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Fred0 on 01/11/2003 10:58:12 Undercutting is not a bad thing. The market for miner II's should be a perfect competition one since information is good and the miners II are all the same. In addition to this, supply will continue to grow while demand is steady to declining. Result: non debatable fact of life. low profit.
For people to earn alot of money you need to have an edge in some way (ie find a good spot)or produce extraordinary amounts
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Ruby LeFonte
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Posted - 2003.11.01 11:48:00 -
[7]
Oh dear... you get undercut by 30% on 575k for an item that costs ~40k to make?
I feel really sorry for you
Just because we are paranoid, doesn't mean you're not out to get us. |
Grimmy Deathstar
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Posted - 2003.11.01 12:16:00 -
[8]
Quote: Oh dear... you get undercut by 30% on 575k for an item that costs ~40k to make?
I feel really sorry for you
I agree!!! the face of greed have shown its ugly face again.
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Toulak
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Posted - 2003.11.01 12:17:00 -
[9]
Its Techells fault for starting this ridiculous, undercutting.
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CubePusher
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Posted - 2003.11.01 12:50:00 -
[10]
hmmmmmm if HMV had that kind of mark up we'd be paying 280 quid for DVD's.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2003.11.01 13:54:00 -
[11]
Sorry to disappoint you, but as long as the guy is making a profit, there is NOTHING stupid about undercutting you buy 30%, 50% or even 99% if he wants to. If you don't like it .... tough.
_______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Tyrion Nydaerin
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Posted - 2003.11.01 14:51:00 -
[12]
But whats the point of undercutting by that much? I'm baffled. You only need to undercut by 1 isk for your order to take precedence in the market....
-=Fountain Alliance High Council Member=- |
Ariemeth
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Posted - 2003.11.01 15:10:00 -
[13]
The reason to undercut by 30% at 575K is to me rather simple. Someone goes to the market screen to look for a miner 2. Do a region search. There are several miner 2's available. You could either pay 575K from station within a few jumps or you could save 30% and make 10 to 15 jumps. It takes a large discount to get most people to want to take the long trip to pick something up. Majority of people would rather pay more money for the convience. Therefore the 30% discount would make sense to get more people to want to buy your product.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2003.11.01 15:35:00 -
[14]
Quote: But whats the point of undercutting by that much? I'm baffled. You only need to undercut by 1 isk for your order to take precedence in the market....
Many ways to compete. Many different strategies available when it comes to pricing.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.01 15:50:00 -
[15]
"The reason to undercut by 30% at 575K is to me rather simple. Someone goes to the market screen to look for a miner 2. Do a region search. There are several miner 2's available. You could either pay 575K from station within a few jumps or you could save 30% and make 10 to 15 jumps."
... But then what stops the undercutting producer from bringing their goods to the station which already has supply with higher price, and sell their own gear there for more due to location being more convenient to the buyer? O.o
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Syme
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Posted - 2003.11.01 16:46:00 -
[16]
The truth is that the person selling those miner2s may not even be the producer but a dealer who has bought even lower and is looking for a quick return. This is totally fair business.
I understand the concerns that agent runners have and how time sapping it can be for very little reward (I gave up after I got a full set of implants)and I sympathise that you may not be making the isk you expected.
I know that there are some idiot manufacturers producing items for less than the npc mineral cost and these ppl do destroy the market but the cutting of high profit margins down to reasonable ones seems fair to me.
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Mallus Kulov
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Posted - 2003.11.01 17:08:00 -
[17]
Looks you lost your marketing capability. Surely you're familar with this since we were all given access to the space lanes several months ago. Better pack up.
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csebal
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Posted - 2003.11.01 17:28:00 -
[18]
Undercutting?
You cant be serious to complain, that someone is not reckless enough to sell a 40k item for 500k+ just because you do.
Competition is a sad thing, isnt it?
I do not blame people who do it, but to complain, just because you cant make 2000% profit on an item anymore, well, thats plain stupid.
We all know why everyone thinks, that 100-200% profit, or less is not even worth working for. I hope CCP learned the lesson, and will not create such monopolies again, so that people will learn to appreciate reasonable profits as well.
btw. Pray that i never get that miner2 BP, coz all i produce will go for 80-150k, not more. Then you can cry about undercutting ;)
my .02 isk ------------- This post is nothing more than my personal opinion. It does not represent the official standpoint of Fountain Alliance, or the HUN Corporation in any way. ------------- |
Nootami
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Posted - 2003.11.01 18:21:00 -
[19]
Well, cesbal, its your loss then.
Originally by: Cortex Reaver [22:39:59] [Oi]Nootami1 joined channel [22:40:02] [Oi]Nootami1 quit
Oh,look! Someone joined for a whopping .3 seconds! -CR
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Amin
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Posted - 2003.11.01 18:43:00 -
[20]
While i fully expected the price of m2's to drop, i was a little surprised how quickly it did. This was due to the sudden large influx of m2 producers who all wanted to sell quicker than their competitors.
The nose dive in price was due to all producers undercutting each other, and not any single party.
Drink StarsiÖ Relation Co-ordinator Caldari State Citizen ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Ariemeth
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Posted - 2003.11.01 19:48:00 -
[21]
Quote:
... But then what stops the undercutting producer from bringing their goods to the station which already has supply with higher price, and sell their own gear there for more due to location being more convenient to the buyer? O.o
Because of the convience of the seller. I'm not gonna jump around the whole system placing items for a slightly higher profit margin if i can get more overall profit with a slightly lower % buy selling at a few locations cheaper then everyone else.
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Lily Savage
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Posted - 2003.11.01 22:18:00 -
[22]
I get the impression that the original poster wanted some sort of cosy price-fixed cartel, and expected this to just happen without any collaberation or effort on his or the other seller's parts.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.01 22:22:00 -
[23]
"Because of the convience of the seller. I'm not gonna jump around the whole system placing items for a slightly higher profit margin if i can get more overall profit with a slightly lower % buy selling at a few locations cheaper then everyone else."
... 30% is 'slightly lower'?
Let me know when you start building battleships; i hope we manage to negotiate a slight discount.... :s
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2003.11.01 23:14:00 -
[24]
I once learned a great lesson:
Only buy bps you need and dont meddle with these idiots on the markets. Sell the bp as quick as you can after you made some items for own use. :) __________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Muaddid
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Posted - 2003.11.01 23:40:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Muaddid on 01/11/2003 23:41:26 if i had brought the BP at 2m isk, would i mind being undercutted like this ? no, because i wouldnt have put much efforts in it, but when you do over 150hours of agent missions and this happens... well you think, why am i playing this game again ? im sitll looking for the answer
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2003.11.02 00:48:00 -
[26]
Quote: Edited by: Muaddid on 01/11/2003 23:41:26 if i had brought the BP at 2m isk, would i mind being undercutted like this ? no, because i wouldnt have put much efforts in it, but when you do over 150hours of agent missions and this happens... well you think, why am i playing this game again ? im sitll looking for the answer
I'm sorry?
You found out, in advance, that Miner II bp's would be freely available to anyone completing a large enough number of missions for a lvl3 Minmatar agent ... and THEN you went to get one, without ever stopping to think that their being freely available meant the prices would collapse?
I guess there is someone being stupid here after all.
But, cheer up. It wasn't just you. Apparently scores of people all went to get a Miner II bp, expressly because there were hardly any Miner II bp's in the game
_______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Muaddid
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Posted - 2003.11.02 02:45:00 -
[27]
Quote:
I'm sorry?
You found out, in advance, that Miner II bp's would be freely available to anyone completing a large enough number of missions for a lvl3 Minmatar agent ...
im not asking to sell them at 2m piece like techell was, which imo was exessif, but considering the time involved to acquire a Miner II BPo, selling them at 300k when they 1- sell very well at 500k, and 2- took over 150h of hard work to get is plain silly imo
in fact, im still selling them at 500k very easily, which shows how much stupid of him it was to sell at thoses prices (it went as low as 325k) seeing how he can make nearly twice as much money for no more efforts... but hey, this is what happen in a player-driven economy when you have idiots...
its almost funny to think CCP was seeing cruisers sell at 15m and battleships at 200m isk... if it was the case fleets would be alot more different, with more thought needed...
I must admit I seriously thought the effort needed for a Miner II BPo would drive away this kind of people, and we could see an healthy economy (you think cars or computers sells at production cost ? lol) but once again the players decided against that no, everyone should just produce for themself :(
I'll still try to sell as many as a can at a decent price and well, maybe ill just use one of the in-game features made for this thing... should be fun
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Tirael
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Posted - 2003.11.02 05:59:00 -
[28]
Just for the muppet who used HMV as an example earlier in this thread, a CD, fully packaged, costs around 70 pence to make.
So why do we buy them at ú8-15 at a time?
Because that's what supports the economy.
Muppet.
The only completely consistent people are dead. - Aldous Huxley |
Mynobe Soletae
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Posted - 2003.11.02 07:09:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Mynobe Soletae on 02/11/2003 07:14:04 Regarding agents... I stopped doing missions long ago. Before I got implants, even. I actually bought implants back when they were in the 10-15 mil range. Easier for me.
And I figured miner 2's would go down, so I didn't want the BP. I only have BP's of the ammo I use, and some guns for when I wanna play manufacturing mogul. Everything else can be bought, cheaply, so no sense spending on BP's.
Re: miner 2's, they're a profit even at 100k, everyone keeps saying. And the reason why people undercut themselves is because they're afraid that the demand will go away. It's already pretty much gone; everyone who wanted miner 2's got them for 5 mil each, and has already recovered that cost by mining extensively with them.
500k vs 300k isn't a big deal... I bet all the left-over people who still needed miner 2's bought them as soon as they hit 1 mil, so by now really NO ONE wants miner 2's anymore.
If you're gonna continue to work your agents, go ahead; you're probably gonna have an advantage when they introduce the next tech level 2 bp. Then again, it sounds like all that faction work will go down the drain when Smurf resets the factions as Switchover-to-new-agent-schema-Step-1.
And why are you grinding anyway? Countless hours of boring work, no fun, why? Does it look like there's anything remotely interesting on the horizon to be working for?
All I see is the word "soon". |
Fred0
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Posted - 2003.11.02 09:31:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Fred0 on 02/11/2003 09:31:50 I must admit I seriously thought the effort needed for a Miner II BPo would drive away this kind of people, and we could see an healthy economy (you think cars or computers sells at production cost ? lol) but once again the players decided against that no, everyone should just produce for themself :(
I'll still try to sell as many as a can at a decent price and well, maybe ill just use one of the in-game features made for this thing... should be fun
Well, a healthy economy and a situation like this guarantees you that the prices will go down in the long run. Supply will continue to grow faster than demand while the profit margin is still high. And it's only sound that it does.
I have no idea where you guys got your economy 101 but saying someone is stupid because they charge less than they possible could is not is a load of crap in itself. The strategies everyone choose to compete can and should be different.
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