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Harek
Delusions Empire
7
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Posted - 2015.03.19 16:17:55 -
[1] - Quote
First of all this is not a flame but my expression on how its going so far and in the perspective of seeing through the world via my eyes not my ears and how deeply it impacts me.
Its my first Fanfest and will be my last. Regardless of months on back and forth messages to try get a sign language interpreter for the 3 days there has failed.
Opening presentation, I can see this gentleman walking around making noises. Walked out knowing that the entire Fanfest is a let down. I cannot understand anyone. I can do the Eve Valkire just fine and look around at the Eve Store. Admire the tattoo and costume booths. How can I admire or even understand all the presentations and player-driven talks etc?
The three days is when I actually celebrate of being really left out as a silent outcast.
I was told that I was the first and only deaf person that is attending and its definite the last after my first day experience. The group meet ups few days beforehand at the pubs was a major let down as well. I can understand one-on-one but in a group table setting, all is lost. 
I have attended numerous variety of conventions and they all provided interpreter. I was actually felt part of the crowd and had the equal access on understanding. Communication is a major vital part of my life, especially visual.
Will still do the Eve VR daily, enjoy the beers, and get this over with and go home in disappointment. I lost my will and motivation to even log in and play after today's experience. Good bye Eve and CCP, you're a major letdown for the deaf. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
8002
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Posted - 2015.03.19 16:24:14 -
[2] - Quote
Even after 11 years, FF is a total amateur production. I watched the stream for a while, but had to stop. It's just too painful.
So, while I feel for your situation, I have to say that in researching it you should have known what to expect.
Mr Epeen 
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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kes88
Swords of Persephone
83
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Posted - 2015.03.19 16:29:48 -
[3] - Quote
Really feel for you on this.
Surely there must be someone at FF who can sign? If there's no interpreter maybe it's worth asking the community whether anyone would be able to sign what's being said? |
Serene Repose
2422
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Posted - 2015.03.19 17:11:11 -
[4] - Quote
These are some of the most advanced minds of the Digital Age at work showing their stuff. Well. Maybe not. 
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to type on your keyboard and remove all doubt.
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Omgitsbears
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2015.03.19 17:16:51 -
[5] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:These are some of the most advanced minds of the Digital Age at work showing their stuff. Well. Maybe not.
Sometimes Eve-Online is a very impressive game, and then CCP tries to do other things and it's like... ehhhhh maybe you guys (CCP) shouldn't do that anymore? Or hire someone else to do it? FanFest is one of those times they should bring in outside help. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
14119
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Posted - 2015.03.19 17:21:47 -
[6] - Quote
tbh I could see CCP hiring a sign interpreter would have been a major PR thing that surely would have won them tons of points in the gaming world. Shame they didn't come through even after you've been talking to them about it for a long time.
Best of luck and can only recommend trying to get the most out of Iceland instead then. Keep up the spirit!
/c
GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà
Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'
Twitter @Chribba
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6455
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Posted - 2015.03.19 17:33:05 -
[7] - Quote
Proof that you can play Eve without sound apparently.
The player base proves time and time again that it can handle things well. Perhaps this thread can be a call out to anybody else going to FF who might volunteer to help. The entire "thing" about this game is player created content and outcomes.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion
The Bastion
921
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Posted - 2015.03.19 18:29:37 -
[8] - Quote
CCP has a horrible track record with disabilities and handling them, both minor and major. Unless there is a 3rd party solution, don't expect to get anything done.
Does CCP think that it's not worth the effort? Absolutely not. Do they realize the amount of customers (current and potential) would get their life vastly improved? Probably not on this one.
For the next year, maybe crowd-fund an interpreter 6 months before the fanfest and toot the proverbial horn on social media so hard that CCP ends up covering most of the cost. You could have a stream inside a stream with a few minute delay on teh original so that there is time to handle sudden problems with the transliteration. |
ISD Libertina
ISD STAR
23
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Posted - 2015.03.19 19:59:06 -
[9] - Quote
Seeing your post and being at FF myself, maybe we can help trying to alleviate the bitter situation.
I know there is at least a German Sign Language Interpreter present as a guest at FF. She would be willing to try and assist where she can, even with the multitude of language barriers
Contact me personally through evemail, and leave a message at the eve information desk at Harpa; we'll check with the front desk tomorrow morning.
[u]Libertina[/u]
Vice Admiral
Support, Training And Resources
Interstellar Services Department
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4084
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Posted - 2015.03.20 01:29:29 -
[10] - Quote
It may have been communicated back to you poorly, but according to my information CCP did try to get you an interpreter locally.
To quote a note I got back from CCP on this matter: 'we contacted a few places over here, no dice.'
I am personally very glad some solution might be offered by the German sign interpreter (Thanks Libertina!) and I hope this will at least lead to you enjoying FanFest to the best of your ability.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
92
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Posted - 2015.03.20 01:40:25 -
[11] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:It may have been communicated back to you poorly, but according to my information CCP did try to get you an interpreter locally.
To quote a note I got back from CCP on this matter: 'we contacted a few places over here, no dice.'
I am personally very glad some solution might be offered by the German sign interpreter (Thanks Libertina!) and I hope this will at least lead to you enjoying FanFest to the best of your ability.
Huh seriously? Pretty amateurish... Unless that town has 500 people...
Next up, no dice on that entrance ramp to let wheelchairs up into the hall. We contacted a few places over here, it's like reinventing the wheel, no dice.
 |
Anhenka
Infinite Point
Nulli Secunda
1274
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Posted - 2015.03.20 02:19:28 -
[12] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:ISD Ezwal wrote:It may have been communicated back to you poorly, but according to my information CCP did try to get you an interpreter locally.
To quote a note I got back from CCP on this matter: 'we contacted a few places over here, no dice.'
I am personally very glad some solution might be offered by the German sign interpreter (Thanks Libertina!) and I hope this will at least lead to you enjoying FanFest to the best of your ability. Huh seriously? Pretty amateurish... Unless that town has 500 people... Next up, no dice on that entrance ramp to let wheelchairs up into the hall. We contacted a few places over here, it's like reinventing the wheel, no dice.
A wheelchair ramp is something that can be easily accommodated for during construction, and is mandated in a lot of places. It is a reasonable imposition to have handicap accessibility be part of the building code.
There is a very big difference between a permanent ramp, and requiring a company to hire someone at significant expense in order to translate for a single person, especially at an event where there are many nationalities coming together, splitting up, and attending simultaneous presentations in different rooms.
Does it suck that there was not someone available to translate for the one deaf person? Yes, very much so for that person.
Is it a major offense that a small international gathering of people talking about very particular subjects involving lots of specialized terminology in the ass crack of a smallish Icelandic town (110k people) couldn't find an available English sign language translator to follow around the one deaf person and translate everything for him for three days at a non prohibitive price?
No. That is not a reasonable expectation for a small company presentation. |
Misty Allure
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2015.03.20 02:54:17 -
[13] - Quote
Yeah, I have to say it seems pretty harsh to lay the blame solely with CCP on this, especially if they had already told you that they could not find you an interpreter locally.
It's sad that you haven't enjoyed your time at FF due to your disability but I'm not quite sure what you expected. Fanfest is a lot of talking and they'd already let you know that they wouldn't be able to provide help for you. You obviously knew this would be a problem before hand so why didn't you attempt to find an interpreter yourself either through these forums or elsewhere? |
Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
407
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Posted - 2015.03.20 03:02:29 -
[14] - Quote
I've tweeted this thread to tweetfleet, hopefully someone who is at Fanfest and knows sign language will see it and be able to help you out.
What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.
Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams!
Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
28
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Posted - 2015.03.20 03:22:41 -
[15] - Quote
ISD Libertina wrote:Seeing your post and being at FF myself, maybe we can help trying to alleviate the bitter situation.
I know there is at least a German Sign Language Interpreter present as a guest at FF. She would be willing to try and assist where she can, even with the multitude of language barriers
Contact me personally through evemail, and leave a message at the eve information desk at Harpa; we'll check with the front desk tomorrow morning.
Like this post.
Bring it to attention.
This is only Day 1!
OP, hang in there. 
d0cTeR9 wrote:ISD Ezwal wrote:It may have been communicated back to you poorly, but according to my information CCP did try to get you an interpreter locally.
To quote a note I got back from CCP on this matter: 'we contacted a few places over here, no dice.'
I am personally very glad some solution might be offered by the German sign interpreter (Thanks Libertina!) and I hope this will at least lead to you enjoying FanFest to the best of your ability. Huh seriously? Pretty amateurish... Unless that town has 500 people...
It is a small country, you know. All things derivative of that. |
Lyric Masters
IG.Academy
Eridani Edict
0
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Posted - 2015.03.20 04:41:05 -
[16] - Quote
I've re-tweeted Greygal's post out, also -- and I've also sent you an evemail in game in regards to possibly interviewing with me to put a piece on EveNews24.com to get this out to more of the community, if you'd be willing. |
Steppa Musana
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
29
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Posted - 2015.03.20 04:50:13 -
[17] - Quote
It's more difficult than people imagine finding an interpreter. Its also more expensive. |
DaReaper
Net 7
1858
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Posted - 2015.03.20 10:33:59 -
[18] - Quote
My asl is very rusty and noobish but i can try and help... it just might be slow
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Crystalline Entity
Outdated Host Productions
Talos Coalition
11
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Posted - 2015.03.20 10:36:58 -
[19] - Quote
I thought this was a troll post.
....I'm a bad person |
Erika Mizune
The Soul Society
DeepSpace.
1365
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Posted - 2015.03.20 10:53:52 -
[20] - Quote
I actually feel with you on this. I myself am heard of hearing and I know i would love to see more options out there for people for disabilities. I'm fairly sure you are not alone being deaf at FanFest; it could also be that others just haven't spoken up before. What would be nice; something that I have been thinking about;
On the video stream: Closed Captions
Live Panels (on site): ASL Interpreter
Both of these would be nice, it's not that you are alone, it's that CCP doesn't have these accommodations. If I was there I'd def try to help out to the best of my abilities.
I also raised this in my blog as well about similar:
http://eve.icefaerie.org/2015/02/being-deafhoh-in-eve-online/
Best of luck on getting someone to help you out there. <3
DJ Yumene of Eve Radio | Erika/Yumene for CSM X | Eve Radio | Sounds of Eve
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Lachesiss
nomnomnom MOAR BABIES
The Pursuit of Happiness
308
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Posted - 2015.03.20 11:06:51 -
[21] - Quote
Tbh for those hard of hearing it would be good for ccp to speak with the seminar installers to add in loop to loop hearing units or the option of the lapel wearing signal boosters.
There actually not expensive either.
For the totally deaf subtitles on a separate unit or an interpreter would be helpful.
From what I gather there alot of people who play eve who have hearing issues and this would be a good time for the newly elected CSM to look into this
On the third day after your birth myself and my sister's will come to you and decide your fate.
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Claud Tiberius
Fidelas Constans
102
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Posted - 2015.03.20 11:14:19 -
[22] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:d0cTeR9 wrote:ISD Ezwal wrote:It may have been communicated back to you poorly, but according to my information CCP did try to get you an interpreter locally.
To quote a note I got back from CCP on this matter: 'we contacted a few places over here, no dice.'
I am personally very glad some solution might be offered by the German sign interpreter (Thanks Libertina!) and I hope this will at least lead to you enjoying FanFest to the best of your ability. Huh seriously? Pretty amateurish... Unless that town has 500 people... Next up, no dice on that entrance ramp to let wheelchairs up into the hall. We contacted a few places over here, it's like reinventing the wheel, no dice. A wheelchair ramp is something that can be easily accommodated for during construction, and is mandated in a lot of places. It is a reasonable imposition to have handicap accessibility be part of the building code. There is a very big difference between a permanent ramp, and requiring a company to hire someone at significant expense in order to translate for a single person, especially at an event where there are many nationalities coming together, splitting up, and attending simultaneous presentations in different rooms. Does it suck that there was not someone available to translate for the one deaf person? Yes, very much so for that person. Is it a major offense that a small international gathering of people talking about very particular subjects involving lots of specialized terminology in the ass crack of a smallish Icelandic town (110k people) couldn't find an available English sign language translator to follow around the one deaf person and translate everything for him for three days at a non prohibitive price? No. That is not a reasonable expectation for a small company presentation.
Are you sure? It's minority discrimination. At what point does it become a reasonable expectation?
I think all CCP needs to do next time is have a disability guide -informing: "What is/isn't available, and how to use it".
Having said that I think FF generally handles its clients very well.
Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.
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Erika Mizune
The Soul Society
DeepSpace.
1365
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Posted - 2015.03.20 11:21:39 -
[23] - Quote
Indeed, this was an issue that I was wanting to bring up if I got on CSM, not just this but also ingame elements to assist those players with disabilities with more options. I mean hell; even WoW/Blizzard offers Closed Captions on most of their stuff!
It's important because those who have these disabilities are held back and it makes it harder. I sympathize. As for the lop hearing units, those can sometimes help depending on how much the person can hear. so that may not be effective tbh.
I have hearing aids, but that doesn't help much especially in noisy places; there is a lot of feedback - so subtitles or a asl translator would be nice. Subtitles would be more useful on the actual twitch stream, or do like they have on live presentations with a ASL terp in the corner of the screen. I had a bit of trouble hearing the stream at times so having those subtitles/closed captions would have helped so much. I am sure I am not alone.
I'm sure hiring a interpreter wouldn't cost that much for them; it would be worth it so those that can't hear are not left out; I know how depressing it can be to be in these settings and not knowing what's going on because you can't keep up with what's going on.
DJ Yumene of Eve Radio | Erika/Yumene for CSM X | Eve Radio | Sounds of Eve
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Bjurn Akely
Knights of Nii
The 20 Minuters
81
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Posted - 2015.03.20 11:27:36 -
[24] - Quote
Re-Tweeted.
The solution to this of course hinges on there being an interpreter that can do English sign. Iceland being such a minute nation it's not a given.
Best of luck to OP. One can see the pretty huge cred CCP would get for sorting this issue, if at all possible. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
915
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Posted - 2015.03.20 11:41:04 -
[25] - Quote
Tough situation all around mate. Sorry to hear your Fanfest sucked.
Not today spaghetti.
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Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
408
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Posted - 2015.03.20 13:06:08 -
[26] - Quote
I've heard a number of people have contacted you, hopefully you've been able to meet up with some of them and hopefully they can help you have a better time for the rest of Fanfest!
I am aware of the issues the deaf and hard of hearing can have in Eve. We have a few deaf players who come on our roams several times a month, and whenever I know they are in fleet, I take special care to broadcast everything as much as possible. That way they are able to keep up with fleet and shoot the primaries  They actually keep up with the fleet better than some of my hearing pilots  And as for I myself... well, my ears aren't getting any younger ...
I've actually tested out several text-to-speech tools to use in fleets, that would type whatever the FC says in fleet chat. They actually work, except you have to keep your cursor in the chat box which isn't possible when I'm also targeting and stuff... one day I may find a solution to that, 'cause I think it'd be a great thing to be able to do, not just for those of us with variable hearing, but also for English as a second language players.
Thanks for bringing this important issue to the forefront! Hopefully some good will come out of it!
GG
What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.
Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams!
Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
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ISD CharginMoose
ISD STAR
14
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Posted - 2015.03.20 13:19:58 -
[27] - Quote
I just wanted to let everyone know we have met up with the OP and have him with our German Sign linguist in what I would have to consider one of the more difficult talks of the day. (Make EVE Real - Creating Planetary Civilizations)
When we have a free moment I'll try to have the OP chime in to give an update.
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Alan Mathison
EVE University
Ivy League
51
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Posted - 2015.03.20 13:52:37 -
[28] - Quote
I hope things worked out with the German speaker.
I'm not sure where you come from. Your English seems very good, so I have to think you may be either American or English.
And that would lead to the question I had all through this thread which no one asked: which sign language do you speak? ASL is very different from BSL and unless you're familiar with sign language, most people really don't know that.
Don't leave the game! Report back on what happens. Keep working. You above everyone else on this thread know the battles you face on a daily basis to just do what some of us don't even think about. Keeping up on this could have you changing the game, and Fanfest, to a greater degree than any Member of Council or any single developer.
Face it, the demographics show that EVE attracts a more mature player, and has already been said, our ears aren't getting any better...as I'm sure my partner would agree insofar as I'm concerned! :)
--
Alan Mathison, Proud Sophmore, EVE University
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Harek
Delusions Empire
17
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Posted - 2015.03.20 14:34:11 -
[29] - Quote
Wow, I'm stunned by how many posts and you all are supportive.
In my past experience at fests and conventions, at first no interpreter and the committee won't budge. Countless of messages to get the point across. I had to bring them to my perspective and use the American ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) to put on the bigger picture that regardless the disability, we all have the equal right to access the same say in voice, visual, and physical.
After one particular Sci-fi convention finally got a interpreter. In the second year, more deaf people attended because the word got around. The event management became very grateful and loved seeing more diversity at the convention. Every time I go there, I always thank her deep from my heart for all the work and effort to provide equal access. I'm known for fighting not just for me but for all.
Today I met the German sign language interpreter. I can tell it was a chore for her to comprehend the speaker and sign in German and some in English. I picked up quite a bit on German today and it's slowly becoming more smoother and enjoyable to understand the speaker.
Do hope that CCP looks at this thread and learn from this.
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Harek
Delusions Empire
17
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Posted - 2015.03.20 14:36:24 -
[30] - Quote
I sign American Sign Language and it is very different from British Sign Language. I do know a bit of Icelandic Sign Language and glad to say also learning quite a bit of German Sign Language as well.
I will not quit or give up on this. This is worth fighting for. Seeing so many responses is amazing powerful. |
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