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Harek
Delusions Empire
7
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Posted - 2015.03.19 16:17:55 -
[1] - Quote
First of all this is not a flame but my expression on how its going so far and in the perspective of seeing through the world via my eyes not my ears and how deeply it impacts me.
Its my first Fanfest and will be my last. Regardless of months on back and forth messages to try get a sign language interpreter for the 3 days there has failed.
Opening presentation, I can see this gentleman walking around making noises. Walked out knowing that the entire Fanfest is a let down. I cannot understand anyone. I can do the Eve Valkire just fine and look around at the Eve Store. Admire the tattoo and costume booths. How can I admire or even understand all the presentations and player-driven talks etc?
The three days is when I actually celebrate of being really left out as a silent outcast.
I was told that I was the first and only deaf person that is attending and its definite the last after my first day experience. The group meet ups few days beforehand at the pubs was a major let down as well. I can understand one-on-one but in a group table setting, all is lost. 
I have attended numerous variety of conventions and they all provided interpreter. I was actually felt part of the crowd and had the equal access on understanding. Communication is a major vital part of my life, especially visual.
Will still do the Eve VR daily, enjoy the beers, and get this over with and go home in disappointment. I lost my will and motivation to even log in and play after today's experience. Good bye Eve and CCP, you're a major letdown for the deaf. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
8002
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Posted - 2015.03.19 16:24:14 -
[2] - Quote
Even after 11 years, FF is a total amateur production. I watched the stream for a while, but had to stop. It's just too painful.
So, while I feel for your situation, I have to say that in researching it you should have known what to expect.
Mr Epeen 
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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kes88
Swords of Persephone
83
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Posted - 2015.03.19 16:29:48 -
[3] - Quote
Really feel for you on this.
Surely there must be someone at FF who can sign? If there's no interpreter maybe it's worth asking the community whether anyone would be able to sign what's being said? |
Serene Repose
2422
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Posted - 2015.03.19 17:11:11 -
[4] - Quote
These are some of the most advanced minds of the Digital Age at work showing their stuff. Well. Maybe not. 
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to type on your keyboard and remove all doubt.
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Omgitsbears
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2015.03.19 17:16:51 -
[5] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:These are some of the most advanced minds of the Digital Age at work showing their stuff. Well. Maybe not.
Sometimes Eve-Online is a very impressive game, and then CCP tries to do other things and it's like... ehhhhh maybe you guys (CCP) shouldn't do that anymore? Or hire someone else to do it? FanFest is one of those times they should bring in outside help. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
14119
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Posted - 2015.03.19 17:21:47 -
[6] - Quote
tbh I could see CCP hiring a sign interpreter would have been a major PR thing that surely would have won them tons of points in the gaming world. Shame they didn't come through even after you've been talking to them about it for a long time.
Best of luck and can only recommend trying to get the most out of Iceland instead then. Keep up the spirit!
/c
GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà
Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'
Twitter @Chribba
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6455
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Posted - 2015.03.19 17:33:05 -
[7] - Quote
Proof that you can play Eve without sound apparently.
The player base proves time and time again that it can handle things well. Perhaps this thread can be a call out to anybody else going to FF who might volunteer to help. The entire "thing" about this game is player created content and outcomes.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion
The Bastion
921
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 18:29:37 -
[8] - Quote
CCP has a horrible track record with disabilities and handling them, both minor and major. Unless there is a 3rd party solution, don't expect to get anything done.
Does CCP think that it's not worth the effort? Absolutely not. Do they realize the amount of customers (current and potential) would get their life vastly improved? Probably not on this one.
For the next year, maybe crowd-fund an interpreter 6 months before the fanfest and toot the proverbial horn on social media so hard that CCP ends up covering most of the cost. You could have a stream inside a stream with a few minute delay on teh original so that there is time to handle sudden problems with the transliteration. |
ISD Libertina
ISD STAR
23
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Posted - 2015.03.19 19:59:06 -
[9] - Quote
Seeing your post and being at FF myself, maybe we can help trying to alleviate the bitter situation.
I know there is at least a German Sign Language Interpreter present as a guest at FF. She would be willing to try and assist where she can, even with the multitude of language barriers
Contact me personally through evemail, and leave a message at the eve information desk at Harpa; we'll check with the front desk tomorrow morning.
[u]Libertina[/u]
Vice Admiral
Support, Training And Resources
Interstellar Services Department
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4084
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Posted - 2015.03.20 01:29:29 -
[10] - Quote
It may have been communicated back to you poorly, but according to my information CCP did try to get you an interpreter locally.
To quote a note I got back from CCP on this matter: 'we contacted a few places over here, no dice.'
I am personally very glad some solution might be offered by the German sign interpreter (Thanks Libertina!) and I hope this will at least lead to you enjoying FanFest to the best of your ability.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
92
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Posted - 2015.03.20 01:40:25 -
[11] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:It may have been communicated back to you poorly, but according to my information CCP did try to get you an interpreter locally.
To quote a note I got back from CCP on this matter: 'we contacted a few places over here, no dice.'
I am personally very glad some solution might be offered by the German sign interpreter (Thanks Libertina!) and I hope this will at least lead to you enjoying FanFest to the best of your ability.
Huh seriously? Pretty amateurish... Unless that town has 500 people...
Next up, no dice on that entrance ramp to let wheelchairs up into the hall. We contacted a few places over here, it's like reinventing the wheel, no dice.
 |
Anhenka
Infinite Point
Nulli Secunda
1274
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 02:19:28 -
[12] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:ISD Ezwal wrote:It may have been communicated back to you poorly, but according to my information CCP did try to get you an interpreter locally.
To quote a note I got back from CCP on this matter: 'we contacted a few places over here, no dice.'
I am personally very glad some solution might be offered by the German sign interpreter (Thanks Libertina!) and I hope this will at least lead to you enjoying FanFest to the best of your ability. Huh seriously? Pretty amateurish... Unless that town has 500 people... Next up, no dice on that entrance ramp to let wheelchairs up into the hall. We contacted a few places over here, it's like reinventing the wheel, no dice.
A wheelchair ramp is something that can be easily accommodated for during construction, and is mandated in a lot of places. It is a reasonable imposition to have handicap accessibility be part of the building code.
There is a very big difference between a permanent ramp, and requiring a company to hire someone at significant expense in order to translate for a single person, especially at an event where there are many nationalities coming together, splitting up, and attending simultaneous presentations in different rooms.
Does it suck that there was not someone available to translate for the one deaf person? Yes, very much so for that person.
Is it a major offense that a small international gathering of people talking about very particular subjects involving lots of specialized terminology in the ass crack of a smallish Icelandic town (110k people) couldn't find an available English sign language translator to follow around the one deaf person and translate everything for him for three days at a non prohibitive price?
No. That is not a reasonable expectation for a small company presentation. |
Misty Allure
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 02:54:17 -
[13] - Quote
Yeah, I have to say it seems pretty harsh to lay the blame solely with CCP on this, especially if they had already told you that they could not find you an interpreter locally.
It's sad that you haven't enjoyed your time at FF due to your disability but I'm not quite sure what you expected. Fanfest is a lot of talking and they'd already let you know that they wouldn't be able to provide help for you. You obviously knew this would be a problem before hand so why didn't you attempt to find an interpreter yourself either through these forums or elsewhere? |
Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
407
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 03:02:29 -
[14] - Quote
I've tweeted this thread to tweetfleet, hopefully someone who is at Fanfest and knows sign language will see it and be able to help you out.
What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.
Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams!
Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
28
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Posted - 2015.03.20 03:22:41 -
[15] - Quote
ISD Libertina wrote:Seeing your post and being at FF myself, maybe we can help trying to alleviate the bitter situation.
I know there is at least a German Sign Language Interpreter present as a guest at FF. She would be willing to try and assist where she can, even with the multitude of language barriers
Contact me personally through evemail, and leave a message at the eve information desk at Harpa; we'll check with the front desk tomorrow morning.
Like this post.
Bring it to attention.
This is only Day 1!
OP, hang in there. 
d0cTeR9 wrote:ISD Ezwal wrote:It may have been communicated back to you poorly, but according to my information CCP did try to get you an interpreter locally.
To quote a note I got back from CCP on this matter: 'we contacted a few places over here, no dice.'
I am personally very glad some solution might be offered by the German sign interpreter (Thanks Libertina!) and I hope this will at least lead to you enjoying FanFest to the best of your ability. Huh seriously? Pretty amateurish... Unless that town has 500 people...
It is a small country, you know. All things derivative of that. |
Lyric Masters
IG.Academy
Eridani Edict
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 04:41:05 -
[16] - Quote
I've re-tweeted Greygal's post out, also -- and I've also sent you an evemail in game in regards to possibly interviewing with me to put a piece on EveNews24.com to get this out to more of the community, if you'd be willing. |
Steppa Musana
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
29
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Posted - 2015.03.20 04:50:13 -
[17] - Quote
It's more difficult than people imagine finding an interpreter. Its also more expensive. |
DaReaper
Net 7
1858
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 10:33:59 -
[18] - Quote
My asl is very rusty and noobish but i can try and help... it just might be slow
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Crystalline Entity
Outdated Host Productions
Talos Coalition
11
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 10:36:58 -
[19] - Quote
I thought this was a troll post.
....I'm a bad person |
Erika Mizune
The Soul Society
DeepSpace.
1365
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 10:53:52 -
[20] - Quote
I actually feel with you on this. I myself am heard of hearing and I know i would love to see more options out there for people for disabilities. I'm fairly sure you are not alone being deaf at FanFest; it could also be that others just haven't spoken up before. What would be nice; something that I have been thinking about;
On the video stream: Closed Captions
Live Panels (on site): ASL Interpreter
Both of these would be nice, it's not that you are alone, it's that CCP doesn't have these accommodations. If I was there I'd def try to help out to the best of my abilities.
I also raised this in my blog as well about similar:
http://eve.icefaerie.org/2015/02/being-deafhoh-in-eve-online/
Best of luck on getting someone to help you out there. <3
DJ Yumene of Eve Radio | Erika/Yumene for CSM X | Eve Radio | Sounds of Eve
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Lachesiss
nomnomnom MOAR BABIES
The Pursuit of Happiness
308
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Posted - 2015.03.20 11:06:51 -
[21] - Quote
Tbh for those hard of hearing it would be good for ccp to speak with the seminar installers to add in loop to loop hearing units or the option of the lapel wearing signal boosters.
There actually not expensive either.
For the totally deaf subtitles on a separate unit or an interpreter would be helpful.
From what I gather there alot of people who play eve who have hearing issues and this would be a good time for the newly elected CSM to look into this
On the third day after your birth myself and my sister's will come to you and decide your fate.
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Claud Tiberius
Fidelas Constans
102
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Posted - 2015.03.20 11:14:19 -
[22] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:d0cTeR9 wrote:ISD Ezwal wrote:It may have been communicated back to you poorly, but according to my information CCP did try to get you an interpreter locally.
To quote a note I got back from CCP on this matter: 'we contacted a few places over here, no dice.'
I am personally very glad some solution might be offered by the German sign interpreter (Thanks Libertina!) and I hope this will at least lead to you enjoying FanFest to the best of your ability. Huh seriously? Pretty amateurish... Unless that town has 500 people... Next up, no dice on that entrance ramp to let wheelchairs up into the hall. We contacted a few places over here, it's like reinventing the wheel, no dice. A wheelchair ramp is something that can be easily accommodated for during construction, and is mandated in a lot of places. It is a reasonable imposition to have handicap accessibility be part of the building code. There is a very big difference between a permanent ramp, and requiring a company to hire someone at significant expense in order to translate for a single person, especially at an event where there are many nationalities coming together, splitting up, and attending simultaneous presentations in different rooms. Does it suck that there was not someone available to translate for the one deaf person? Yes, very much so for that person. Is it a major offense that a small international gathering of people talking about very particular subjects involving lots of specialized terminology in the ass crack of a smallish Icelandic town (110k people) couldn't find an available English sign language translator to follow around the one deaf person and translate everything for him for three days at a non prohibitive price? No. That is not a reasonable expectation for a small company presentation.
Are you sure? It's minority discrimination. At what point does it become a reasonable expectation?
I think all CCP needs to do next time is have a disability guide -informing: "What is/isn't available, and how to use it".
Having said that I think FF generally handles its clients very well.
Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.
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Erika Mizune
The Soul Society
DeepSpace.
1365
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 11:21:39 -
[23] - Quote
Indeed, this was an issue that I was wanting to bring up if I got on CSM, not just this but also ingame elements to assist those players with disabilities with more options. I mean hell; even WoW/Blizzard offers Closed Captions on most of their stuff!
It's important because those who have these disabilities are held back and it makes it harder. I sympathize. As for the lop hearing units, those can sometimes help depending on how much the person can hear. so that may not be effective tbh.
I have hearing aids, but that doesn't help much especially in noisy places; there is a lot of feedback - so subtitles or a asl translator would be nice. Subtitles would be more useful on the actual twitch stream, or do like they have on live presentations with a ASL terp in the corner of the screen. I had a bit of trouble hearing the stream at times so having those subtitles/closed captions would have helped so much. I am sure I am not alone.
I'm sure hiring a interpreter wouldn't cost that much for them; it would be worth it so those that can't hear are not left out; I know how depressing it can be to be in these settings and not knowing what's going on because you can't keep up with what's going on.
DJ Yumene of Eve Radio | Erika/Yumene for CSM X | Eve Radio | Sounds of Eve
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Bjurn Akely
Knights of Nii
The 20 Minuters
81
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 11:27:36 -
[24] - Quote
Re-Tweeted.
The solution to this of course hinges on there being an interpreter that can do English sign. Iceland being such a minute nation it's not a given.
Best of luck to OP. One can see the pretty huge cred CCP would get for sorting this issue, if at all possible. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
915
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 11:41:04 -
[25] - Quote
Tough situation all around mate. Sorry to hear your Fanfest sucked.
Not today spaghetti.
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Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
408
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 13:06:08 -
[26] - Quote
I've heard a number of people have contacted you, hopefully you've been able to meet up with some of them and hopefully they can help you have a better time for the rest of Fanfest!
I am aware of the issues the deaf and hard of hearing can have in Eve. We have a few deaf players who come on our roams several times a month, and whenever I know they are in fleet, I take special care to broadcast everything as much as possible. That way they are able to keep up with fleet and shoot the primaries  They actually keep up with the fleet better than some of my hearing pilots  And as for I myself... well, my ears aren't getting any younger ...
I've actually tested out several text-to-speech tools to use in fleets, that would type whatever the FC says in fleet chat. They actually work, except you have to keep your cursor in the chat box which isn't possible when I'm also targeting and stuff... one day I may find a solution to that, 'cause I think it'd be a great thing to be able to do, not just for those of us with variable hearing, but also for English as a second language players.
Thanks for bringing this important issue to the forefront! Hopefully some good will come out of it!
GG
What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.
Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams!
Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
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ISD CharginMoose
ISD STAR
14
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Posted - 2015.03.20 13:19:58 -
[27] - Quote
I just wanted to let everyone know we have met up with the OP and have him with our German Sign linguist in what I would have to consider one of the more difficult talks of the day. (Make EVE Real - Creating Planetary Civilizations)
When we have a free moment I'll try to have the OP chime in to give an update.
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Alan Mathison
EVE University
Ivy League
51
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Posted - 2015.03.20 13:52:37 -
[28] - Quote
I hope things worked out with the German speaker.
I'm not sure where you come from. Your English seems very good, so I have to think you may be either American or English.
And that would lead to the question I had all through this thread which no one asked: which sign language do you speak? ASL is very different from BSL and unless you're familiar with sign language, most people really don't know that.
Don't leave the game! Report back on what happens. Keep working. You above everyone else on this thread know the battles you face on a daily basis to just do what some of us don't even think about. Keeping up on this could have you changing the game, and Fanfest, to a greater degree than any Member of Council or any single developer.
Face it, the demographics show that EVE attracts a more mature player, and has already been said, our ears aren't getting any better...as I'm sure my partner would agree insofar as I'm concerned! :)
--
Alan Mathison, Proud Sophmore, EVE University
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Harek
Delusions Empire
17
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Posted - 2015.03.20 14:34:11 -
[29] - Quote
Wow, I'm stunned by how many posts and you all are supportive.
In my past experience at fests and conventions, at first no interpreter and the committee won't budge. Countless of messages to get the point across. I had to bring them to my perspective and use the American ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) to put on the bigger picture that regardless the disability, we all have the equal right to access the same say in voice, visual, and physical.
After one particular Sci-fi convention finally got a interpreter. In the second year, more deaf people attended because the word got around. The event management became very grateful and loved seeing more diversity at the convention. Every time I go there, I always thank her deep from my heart for all the work and effort to provide equal access. I'm known for fighting not just for me but for all.
Today I met the German sign language interpreter. I can tell it was a chore for her to comprehend the speaker and sign in German and some in English. I picked up quite a bit on German today and it's slowly becoming more smoother and enjoyable to understand the speaker.
Do hope that CCP looks at this thread and learn from this.
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Harek
Delusions Empire
17
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Posted - 2015.03.20 14:36:24 -
[30] - Quote
I sign American Sign Language and it is very different from British Sign Language. I do know a bit of Icelandic Sign Language and glad to say also learning quite a bit of German Sign Language as well.
I will not quit or give up on this. This is worth fighting for. Seeing so many responses is amazing powerful. |
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Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co.
Brave Collective
301
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Posted - 2015.03.20 19:00:27 -
[31] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:ISD Ezwal wrote:It may have been communicated back to you poorly, but according to my information CCP did try to get you an interpreter locally.
To quote a note I got back from CCP on this matter: 'we contacted a few places over here, no dice.'
I am personally very glad some solution might be offered by the German sign interpreter (Thanks Libertina!) and I hope this will at least lead to you enjoying FanFest to the best of your ability. Huh seriously? Pretty amateurish... Unless that town has 500 people... Next up, no dice on that entrance ramp to let wheelchairs up into the hall. We contacted a few places over here, it's like reinventing the wheel, no dice.
There are only 300,000 people on the entire island!
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Erika Mizune
The Soul Society
DeepSpace.
1366
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 19:38:44 -
[32] - Quote
Harek, That is great to hear that it worked out and picking up another language is always great as well. I am also in the process of trying to learn JSL (Japanese Sign Language); I find sign language in general very beautiful and much more expressive than any other language.
The community here is great and very supportive of it's members. We are all here together and want to help each other. (Even if it means showing love with guns in-game, but that's another story)
I do hope CCP learns from this and tries to take more effect to make more adaptations for people with disabilities.
DJ Yumene of Eve Radio | Erika/Yumene for CSM X | Eve Radio | Sounds of Eve
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6469
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 21:38:16 -
[33] - Quote
Harek wrote:I sign American Sign Language and it is very different from British Sign Language. I do know a bit of Icelandic Sign Language and glad to say also learning quite a bit of German Sign Language as well.
I will not quit or give up on this. This is worth fighting for. Seeing so many responses is amazing powerful.
Players solutions are the best solutions, even out of the game. This outcome is of no surprise. Hope it all goes well for you.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Reiisha
Repracor Industries
734
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 21:42:46 -
[34] - Quote
Erika Mizune wrote: even WoW/Blizzard offers Closed Captions on most of their stuff!
...
I'm sure hiring a interpreter wouldn't cost that much for them; it would be worth it so those that can't hear are not left out; I know how depressing it can be to be in these settings and not knowing what's going on because you can't keep up with what's going on.
Singled out those comments:
WoW has *at least* 16 times more subscribers and Blizzcon attracts over 50,000 people (i think the last one was 70-80k?). Blizz' "fanfest" is literally 50 times the size of CCP's. I think it's rather unfair to compare the two.
Then there's the interpreter: They would have to find someone who would be willing (and able!) to interpret EVE specific terminology (and other rather technical stuff) in quite a lot of different English accents in real time.
For 6-8 hours a day.
For 3 days.
I'm not sure what people think this costs, but this can easily go into the quadruple digits, if you can even find such a person. At best, you'd get the cliffnotes version of what's going on.
While i am supportive, i have to play devil's advocate here, and there's a lot of costs involved for people trying to make it possible. I'm glad the German interpreter is working out, but please don't be too one-sided on this issue. It may seem cruel, but i think it's very rude to expect special treatment like that and also expecting that it's an utterly trivial thing to organize, especially with any sense of entitlement.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
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Hengle Teron
Just Another Corp XIV
43324
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 22:44:34 -
[35] - Quote
I thought I saw some guy on stage doing sign language yesterday on stream
maybe it just looked that way :p |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
740
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 23:55:24 -
[36] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:ISD Ezwal wrote:It may have been communicated back to you poorly, but according to my information CCP did try to get you an interpreter locally.
To quote a note I got back from CCP on this matter: 'we contacted a few places over here, no dice.'
I am personally very glad some solution might be offered by the German sign interpreter (Thanks Libertina!) and I hope this will at least lead to you enjoying FanFest to the best of your ability. Huh seriously? Pretty amateurish... Unless that town has 500 people... Next up, no dice on that entrance ramp to let wheelchairs up into the hall. We contacted a few places over here, it's like reinventing the wheel, no dice.
It's Iceland.
How many do you think there are in Iceland who can speak American Sign Language?
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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ISD CharginMoose
ISD STAR
16
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Posted - 2015.03.21 01:11:32 -
[37] - Quote
From what I've been told there are around 24-27 sign linguests in Iceland. None of whichwhich are ASL fluent. As somesomeon else has said you then have the issue of people not being aware of eve terminology adding to the difficulty.
To have made things easier the large scripted talks would have been needed by the interpreter before hand to practice but also fully understand the talk.
But either way we are trying our best to help this individual. I just wanted to add a few facts to the discussion.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
987
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Posted - 2015.03.21 08:22:15 -
[38] - Quote
Harek wrote:I sign American Sign Language and it is very different from British Sign Language. I do know a bit of Icelandic Sign Language and glad to say also learning quite a bit of German Sign Language as well.
I will not quit or give up on this. This is worth fighting for. Seeing so many responses is amazing powerful.
awesome to hear. I live in an area with a rather large deaf community, and can remember seeing deaf interpreters at concerts and various other events. and on that note I wouldn't be too surprised to see that there is some overlap with the EVE player base. As far as the overall costs of fanfest I can't imaging getting an ASL interpreter or two would be all that expensive. Although I don't know much about signlanguage and know even less about the differences between the various kinds. this thread alone seems to include American, English, German, and Icelandic.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
504
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Posted - 2015.03.21 08:39:56 -
[39] - Quote
This conversation of c. beg to question why are there several versions for a sign language that is:
a) artificially constructed to match a spoken language to begin with
b) isn't really that old as far as languages go or old even as a concept
c) doesn't evolve in a way that normal languages do
And I think I already answered my own question with a) |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
743
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 09:00:29 -
[40] - Quote
Baneken wrote:This conversation of c. beg to question why are there several versions for a sign language that is:
a) artificially constructed to match a spoken language to begin with
b) isn't really that old as far as languages go or old even as a concept
c) doesn't evolve in a way that normal languages do
And I think I already answered my own question with a)
Because different spoken languages have different grammars, not just different words. It's easier for people to learn sign language when it shares grammar with the language that they're familiar with.
Remember sign language isn't just for deaf people, it's for people who want to talk to deaf people as well.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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Diggle Dirker
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2015.03.21 09:23:43 -
[41] - Quote
You know attendance at Fanfest isn't required to enjoy the game, right? I've never been and have no intention of ever going. Sorry you feel let down though.
It's such a hideously amateurish event I'm surprised anyone even bothers to turn up. Watching the hosts on the stream yesterday sent my Cringe-O-Meter into meltdown. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
30907
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 09:31:27 -
[42] - Quote
Harek wrote:First of all this is not a flame but my expression on how its going so far and in the perspective of seeing through the world via my eyes not my ears and how deeply it impacts me. Its my first Fanfest and will be my last. Regardless of months on back and forth messages to try get a sign language interpreter for the 3 days there has failed. Opening presentation, I can see this gentleman walking around making noises. Walked out knowing that the entire Fanfest is a let down. I cannot understand anyone. I can do the Eve Valkire just fine and look around at the Eve Store. Admire the tattoo and costume booths. How can I admire or even understand all the presentations and player-driven talks etc? The three days is when I actually celebrate of being really left out as a silent outcast. I was told that I was the first and only deaf person that is attending and its definite the last after my first day experience. The group meet ups few days beforehand at the pubs was a major let down as well. I can understand one-on-one but in a group table setting, all is lost. I have attended numerous variety of conventions and they all provided interpreter. I was actually felt part of the crowd and had the equal access on understanding. Communication is a major vital part of my life, especially visual. Will still do the Eve VR daily, enjoy the beers, and get this over with and go home in disappointment. I lost my will and motivation to even log in and play after today's experience. Good bye Eve and CCP, you're a major letdown for the deaf.
Harek, I can barely understand the Icelandic accent anyway.
Help, I can't download EVE
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Varathius
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
173
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Posted - 2015.03.21 11:01:12 -
[43] - Quote
Not defending CCP here but what do most people expect regarding the professionalism of FF streams? Yes sure, they're meh, but what you guys want, BBC and CNN employees or Bill Clinton doing the show there? Yes, even after so many years...I think FF is for people getting the chance to meet some of the guys that keep ensuring eve is dying since 2003 and meet corp mates and whatnot, but apparently people are expecting too much. Sure, the prices aren't cheap.
As for the sign language help. CCP must mention whether that is present or not before you purchase the tickets, it appears they did try and are still trying to come up with a solution so I hope it works out for you, but please remember that if something like this isn't written somewhere, it most likely won't happen.
As for CCP's communication regarding contacting them on behalf of Eve Fanfest tickets and sisters of eve spouse program, there I must agree, CCP were absolutely horrible. I wrote many months in advance regarding questions about that that were not mentioned, I contacted them 5x via their contact information, they never bothered to reply to me, not even once. Therefore, I decided not to go. I to this day do not understand why provide a contact form if people don't reply, might as well not provide it at all. |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
236
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 13:36:59 -
[44] - Quote
can't we have someone type what the presenter is saying live ?
many an FC has had to do this in fleet. it's not hard.
so seeing as the OP is able to read english the solution isn't that feckin hard now is it.
sit beside him and type on your laptop what the presenter is saying.
not a perfect solution but better than nothing.
it will even work both ways if the OP wants to ask a question. |
diesel nuts
High Flyers
Gentlemen's.Club
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 05:43:44 -
[45] - Quote
coming to this one late..
I am deaf too and can understand your frustration. Personally, I think you're nuts to have tried -- the accents and crowd noise would have killed me. Kudos for giving it a shot.
There are a lot of things CCP could do (or any event organizer), loop systems, CART, captioning, etc. it's frustrating to feel like the only guy in the room that can't understand, and I wish more people would take us into account.
Sorry you had the bad experience. |
Hicksimus
Xion Limited
Resonance.
632
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 10:29:26 -
[46] - Quote
kes88 wrote: maybe it's worth asking the community whether anyone would be able to sign what's being said?
Imagine asking....no....trusting somebody from EvE Online to translate for you.
Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you?
Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
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The Slayer
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
241
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Posted - 2015.06.08 14:28:19 -
[47] - Quote
I'm not usually about drawing comparisons to other events but - do they have interpretors at Blizzcon? E3? |
Cyborg Girl86
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2015.06.08 14:44:39 -
[48] - Quote
+1 for the OP
I feel everyone should be able to enjoy this game and the events hosted by its community, no matter what disability they suffer from.
Best of luck to you. I hope you find someone capable of ASL and that you enjoy your stay in Iceland. |
Nami Kumamato
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
596
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 10:21:37 -
[49] - Quote
Harek wrote:First of all this is not a flame but my expression on how its going so far and in the perspective of seeing through the world via my eyes not my ears and how deeply it impacts me. Its my first Fanfest and will be my last. Regardless of months on back and forth messages to try get a sign language interpreter for the 3 days there has failed. Opening presentation, I can see this gentleman walking around making noises. Walked out knowing that the entire Fanfest is a let down. I cannot understand anyone. I can do the Eve Valkire just fine and look around at the Eve Store. Admire the tattoo and costume booths. How can I admire or even understand all the presentations and player-driven talks etc? The three days is when I actually celebrate of being really left out as a silent outcast. I was told that I was the first and only deaf person that is attending and its definite the last after my first day experience. The group meet ups few days beforehand at the pubs was a major let down as well. I can understand one-on-one but in a group table setting, all is lost. I have attended numerous variety of conventions and they all provided interpreter. I was actually felt part of the crowd and had the equal access on understanding. Communication is a major vital part of my life, especially visual. Will still do the Eve VR daily, enjoy the beers, and get this over with and go home in disappointment. I lost my will and motivation to even log in and play after today's experience. Good bye Eve and CCP, you're a major letdown for the deaf.
Them feeeels :'(
If I get to FF next year I'll make sure to round up everyone who needs signing (though my American is crappy, as I use my native mostly - but then again something may be better than nothing).
" And now my ship is oh so cloaked and fit -
I never felt so good, I never felt so hid ! "
- Ramona McCandless, Untitled
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Master Kent'sslave
Unforeseen Consequences.
Triumvirate.
11
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Posted - 2015.06.09 14:07:23 -
[50] - Quote
to the OP of this thread im sorry to hear.
We have a deaf person in corp, but we always make sure to have someone in fleet, typing out in capital letters in fleet with all the commands, and short summearies on whats going on on comms when we are just sitting around on a gate or something. has worked out nicly in corp and most guys are happy to help out that way.
But yes it is very unprofessional of ccp, after an ongoing conversation over time, to not be able to provide any assistance,... |
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TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
1170
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Posted - 2015.06.09 14:12:56 -
[51] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:ISD Ezwal wrote:It may have been communicated back to you poorly, but according to my information CCP did try to get you an interpreter locally.
To quote a note I got back from CCP on this matter: 'we contacted a few places over here, no dice.'
I am personally very glad some solution might be offered by the German sign interpreter (Thanks Libertina!) and I hope this will at least lead to you enjoying FanFest to the best of your ability. Huh seriously? Pretty amateurish... Unless that town has 500 people...
You do realize this is Iceland we're talking about If there are interpreters then they will be trained in Icelandic... not in English. And flying in a foreign interpreter who is specialized in English, no offence to OP, but that's not worth the cost or the effort for just one person.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
175
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 20:02:46 -
[52] - Quote
Quote:The first challenge for a viking child was to survive birth. If they were born sick or disabled, they were taken away and left outside to die.
Maybe this explains why they were not capable of taking care of deaf man, I would advise taking someone who can translate with you, or maybe CCP could provide a Cortana speach to text stream viewable in certain part of audience for those deaf people. |
Caviar Liberta
Moira.
Villore Accords
859
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Posted - 2015.06.10 06:57:55 -
[53] - Quote
Steppa Musana wrote:It's more difficult than people imagine finding an interpreter. Its also more expensive.
Just a thought on the cost of an interpreter. Now bear with me here as it might seem like a slight tangent.
1. We have voice to text
2. we have databases
3. we have 3D holograms that can talk, dance and sing.
Mesh these this things together and you could have a multilingual database interpreter that takes spoken word and has the 3D hologram doing signing in the language of the viewer. |
Tellatubby
Raytheon Intergalactic Research
Gentlemen's.Club
2
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Posted - 2015.06.10 12:24:10 -
[54] - Quote
And this...Is exactly why I love Eve. The community banding together to fix a solution for other members of the community.
Kudos to you all :) |
Kaivar Lancer
Little Rat Company
613
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 13:05:04 -
[55] - Quote
Man, that sucks. Hopefully CCP can be creative and maybe offer a free ticket / accommodation to EVE-loving interpreters next time. |
Sevyn Chambernique
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
1
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Posted - 2015.07.17 07:19:34 -
[56] - Quote
As a hearing person I'm a full supporter of the deaf and hearing impaired community. 100% and all the way!
While I understand Iceland is a smaller county and probably lacks any ASL interpreters we should always, always try to find way to include everyone. There is something wrong we we dont try to do our best to include everyone in what's going on. Whether it's attending FF or playing EVE online.
I would love to see CSM and CCP work together and develop a blueprint on how we can make the game more accessible. I know it will not only benefit deaf players but hearing players who often have to turn the volume down at night because people are sleeping in the room (I've heard people mentioning this on coms several times already).
I've also taken a semester of ASL and it is based on American words. Some people think it's a universal sign language and it's not. I encourage everyone to take a class when possible. As an avid traveler I often do not speak a word of the native language and actually communicated with facial expressions and hand gestures. Something I picked up while trying to learn ASL. I remember asking for direction and not understand the person response but based on their hand gestures and turning their hand left, right, straight and listening for numbers I was able to find my way more than once. So there are useful application in learning ASL.
So I stand by you Harek and will fight with you and not give up as well. You have allies and were here to stay! |
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
146
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Posted - 2015.07.17 11:33:27 -
[57] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Proof that you can play Eve without sound apparently.
The player base proves time and time again that it can handle things well. Perhaps this thread can be a call out to anybody else going to FF who might volunteer to help. The entire "thing" about this game is player created content and outcomes.
I've been playing since 2004 with no sound, it works pretty well
@OP
Well that sucks to hear, i would have personally made my own arrangements, you could probably look in to doing something yourself for next fanfest and invite other hearing impaired players along as kind of a group thing, would really show CCP how its done, and who doesn't like doing things better than CCP can :P
That being said its a shame you felt it was such a let down, i hope you manage to sort something out for a future event, i remember my trip to fanfest was quite the blast, although i was more there to meet people than for the actual presentations, we hope to see you posting your success story next year :) |
Wacktopia
Noir.
No Not Believing
801
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Posted - 2015.07.17 13:19:39 -
[58] - Quote
ISD CharginMoose wrote:From what I've been told there are around 24-27 sign linguests in Iceland. None of whichwhich are ASL fluent. As somesomeon else has said you then have the issue of people not being aware of eve terminology adding to the difficulty.
To have made things easier the large scripted talks would have been needed by the interpreter before hand to practice but also fully understand the talk.
But either way we are trying our best to help this individual. I just wanted to add a few facts to the discussion.
Could you get someone to fast-type the words on a screen as they are spoken? Might be an easier alternative ?
Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together - -áFleet-Up.com
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2052
|
Posted - 2015.07.17 13:21:36 -
[59] - Quote
Cyborg Girl86 wrote:+1 for the OP
I feel everyone should be able to enjoy this game and the events hosted by its community, no matter what disability they suffer from.
Yeah we should find a way to make the blinds enjoy EVE... |
Tappits
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
118
|
Posted - 2015.07.17 14:09:17 -
[60] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Even after 11 years, FF is a total amateur production. I watched the stream for a while, but had to stop. It's just too painful. So, while I feel for your situation, I have to say that in researching it you should have known what to expect. Mr Epeen
Yer Fanfest has been going downhill for years,
I only go because its an official PL meetup thing and most of the PL people only use harpa as a wifi hub and don't even bother going to any of the roundtables and only go to the main things in the main hall so we can put the PL flags up and shout JEFF RADER when they play the "This is eve" vid |
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DaReaper
Net 7
2380
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Posted - 2015.07.17 18:56:12 -
[61] - Quote
its also in iceland, so odds are they would not have many, if any ASL interpreters. Sadly this was prolly something you would of needed to arrange yourself is my guess.
Though, ccp should of at least had some type of printed speeach you could of read, but beyond that...
Also i dunno if iceland has anything like the ADA, but as i already said, an ASL interpreter would of been difficult to get in iceland
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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kes88
Swords of Persephone
105
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Posted - 2015.07.18 12:23:22 -
[62] - Quote
Hicksimus wrote:kes88 wrote: maybe it's worth asking the community whether anyone would be able to sign what's being said? Imagine asking....no.... trusting somebody from EvE Online to translate for you.
Hence the *maybe*. I'd like to think we, as a community, could help out. |
Jacques d'Orleans
The Scope
Gallente Federation
498
|
Posted - 2015.07.18 16:17:22 -
[63] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:its also in iceland, so odds are they would not have many, if any ASL interpreters. Sadly this was prolly something you would of needed to arrange yourself is my guess.
Though, ccp should of at least had some type of printed speeach you could of read, but beyond that...
Also i dunno if iceland has anything like the ADA, but as i already said, an ASL interpreter would of been difficult to get in iceland
Well, i did a quick search were i live (Augsburg has just around 40.000 Citizens less than whole Iceland) and i couldn't find an ASL interpreter either and at all there are only 4 GSL interpreters available.
So when ISD Chargin Moose said, Quote: "From what I've been told there are around 24-27 sign linguests in Iceland. None of whichwhich are ASL fluent". End quote
That means Iceland has only 40.000 citizens less than Augsburg, but 6 almost 7 times more sign language interpreters. You might draw your own conclusions about the availability numbers of ASL interpreters europe wide.
Most possibly you find them only in major big cities like Paris, London, Berlin and so on. |
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