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Mobadder Thworst
Perkone Caldari State
79
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 02:31:57 -
[1] - Quote
I've been playing on and off since '09. I wanted to take a moment to reflect on what I see as an erosion taking place in the game.
I did loads of PVE my first year or two. I mined in everything but a mining ship, ran missions up to level 4, lived in a WH, mastered scanning back when it was confusing(did all the exploration sites). I tried every bit of PVE content this game offered.
The whole while, I was in corporations dodging war declarations and trying to keep corps together. Every time I mined, flippers posed a risk. Every time I undocked, someone was baiting. If I smacked in local, I increased the chances of getting a war dec.
Even doing PVE, I could see the people doing interesting things. There was risk everywhere and it felt real.
At about two years, I was sick of shooting red crosses. I was still doing some exploration, but mostly just for cash. Even the social element of the game seemed boring to me because it revolved around the same dull activities. (Missions are like playing checkers against an opponent who makes the exact same moves each time.)
That is when I decided to try to kill some of the evil can flippers I had hated all that time. And I lost ships. And I had fun.
I had sweaty palms, a high heart rate, and no idea what I was doing. That was 500 kills ago now, but I still feel it every time I fight. I think the pvp aspect of this game is the best I have encountered.
4 years later, I still want to experience that high.
My first war dec was against a mining corp. We killed loads of them. Then they hired some tiny merc corp to attack us. But before the merc could dec us, we started giving the miners some pointers and made friends. Then the miners declared war on the mercs they had paid to attack us in order to help us out. I have no idea what the mercs thought. It was absolute numbnuttery, but I loved it.
My problem is this. I think PVE content in this game has a short life span. I can hardly think of a PVE based game that anyone plays for more than 2 years. However, when I look at empire space now that is the only content that is growing. Everything else is nearly gone.
The changes to crime watch have nearly eliminated pvp in the section of space where the vast majority of the players live. Nobody is facing threat and nobody is pvping. I think this is crazy. It's not Eve.
It's extremely hard to find a pick-up fight now. There are no war fleets in local., no funny smack talk, no canners, no baiters, and I'm seeing carebear corps who haven't had war secs.
I used to fly around in a shield rep osprey to get fights. I would find a fight and rep both sides while smacking in local about peace and brotherhood. Once one side would shoot, I'd change into something else and get a kill. I always wanted to kill both sides, but never pulled it off.
The only pvp I see left in high sec is suicide ganks which isn't worth my $15 a month.
My question is this: 1) as you force the high sec portion of eve (the majority)down the road of PVE... How long do you expect to keep these players? How long can someone legitimately play PVE in this game? Are these all 2 year players?
I think you are trading guys like me who would still be playing 6 years later for guys who want a PVE experience and are just looking to amass some isk and ships before the move on to another game.
What game will I be playing by the time you bring pvp back? I've been looking desperately to replace Eve for a while. The replacement isn't here yet, but it's coming.
Please give back the old crime watch mechanics and cheap war decs.
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Xayder
Purging Maelstrom Spaceship Bebop
321
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Posted - 2015.03.20 03:06:57 -
[2] - Quote
Edit; yeH nvm didnt read the whole post
I don't always post, But when i post I do it with my main
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
120
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 03:31:40 -
[3] - Quote
You can't think of any PVE based games that last longer than 2 years??? What about the most successful games in the MMO market? You know, all of them?
Who is forcing high-sec players into PVE? I have one character that pvp's in a wormhole, and one that pvp's in high sec and several alts that do PVE in both. No one forces a gamestyle on you or anyone else.
What do you mean "when you bring back pvp"? CCP is making a change to null that will monumentally change the frequency of pvp in that space and the war dec system in high sec is far better than it was back in the day.
I think you don't get it. Also 500 kills in 4 years of pvp??? You are doing it wrong. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
34
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Posted - 2015.03.20 04:08:01 -
[4] - Quote
Have you tried... you know.... well... there's a thing... perhaps you've heard... been here for a long time.... I think highsec has always been like this... however, you should really look into that thing... it's been called many names... but I think it just...
LOW(er)SEC(urity) SPACE 420schwagy0l0n0scoped BOOM
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Steppa Musana
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
29
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Posted - 2015.03.20 04:36:43 -
[5] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Have you tried... you know.... well... there's a thing... perhaps you've heard... been here for a long time.... I think highsec has always been like this... however, you should really look into that thing... it's been called many names... but I think it just... LOW(er)SEC(urity) SPACE 420schwagy0l0n0scoped BOOM But he might actually face competition in lowsec. Thats just too much risk for a highsec pvper. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4865
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 04:48:44 -
[6] - Quote
There are definitely opportunities for PVP in highsec, but they are much worse than they used to be.
For aggressors, there are less ways to initiate a fight with cunning, meaning you need to fall back on the sledgehammer of overwhelming numbers and suicide ganking.
For defenders - there's less ways to set believable traps to catch baiters.
As for leaving high - it's one option, but most of the prey is in high.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
872
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 08:07:19 -
[7] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:There are definitely opportunities for PVP in highsec, but they are much worse than they used to be.
For aggressors, there are less ways to initiate a fight with cunning, meaning you need to fall back on the sledgehammer of overwhelming numbers and suicide ganking.
For defenders - there's less ways to set believable traps to catch baiters.
As for leaving high - it's one option, but most of the prey is in high.
CODE and their sort limit themselves because of the prey they are looking to "fight'. Low and WH space are full of adversaries that you can actually fight.
Don't limit yourself. Get beyond the ganks and go looking for actual fights. There are plenty of folks out there looking to swap paint and ammo (most of them don't fly covetors).
I've been playing straight through since my born on date. I started as empire merc prey. Joined said mercs and had an absolute blast for several years (many thanks to Hans and all the other great folks I flew with). Moved to WH space and never looked back. WH space rich somewhat takes the edge off of the jitters that you speak of, but it's still there. Ditch empire and find a nice small gang wh corp and you'll see it's still a great game. |
Don Purple
Snuggle Society Snuggle Society.
1134
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 08:24:31 -
[8] - Quote
How long you sticking around this time mate? Hit me up in game.
I am just here to snuggle.
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Mobadder Thworst
Perkone Caldari State
80
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 10:05:50 -
[9] - Quote
Ok, I think I clouded my assertion with attempts to slow the trolls.
This is a sandbox game. Most of the sandbox is in empire space. The vast majority of the players all play in empire space.
As empire is the experience to the majority of players, the state of empire is the state of the game.
Regardless of how you feel about the bad pirates, I am arguing that this game is changing from a game that included pvp into a game that has pvp features.
High sec is not as interesting as it was when there were people fighting everywhere. I think it's an erosion in the quality of the game. It affects most players.
Even if you are a miner and nobody is bothering you, war decs and smack talk are content. I liked that content.
Hi Purple. I'll see if I can find you next time I log on.
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Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 11:06:34 -
[10] - Quote
It's high sec. It's not supposed to be perfectly safe, and it isn't. But it's not supposed to be a warground where people who currently prefer to avoid most PVP are being chased around by someone like you. There is some PVP stuff going on in highsec, but if that isn't what you're looking for specifically, then maybe you belong in a different region of space.
I've been playing on and off for longer than you have, and I have not a single PVP kill (and only a few deaths, iirc) to my credit... but I'm still here. Your "PVP content is the only content people will keep subscribing for" argument looks like it's just an attempt to cover up your "wah highsec isn't what I want it to be" complaint.
I mean, the very fact that highsec IS so busy should indicate that a lot of Eve's players don't care for the more constant and higher risk of other areas of space, at least not all the time, right? So what if some people who are choosing to avoid PVP burn out on PVE and unsub? Do you think if they were exposed to a bunch of the PVP that they are trying to avoid that a majority of them wouldn't unsub too? |
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Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1151
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 11:15:57 -
[11] - Quote
Amarrchecko wrote:It's high sec. It's not supposed to be perfectly safe, and it isn't. But it's not supposed to be a warground where people who currently prefer to avoid most PVP are being chased around by someone like you. There is some PVP stuff going on in highsec, but if that isn't what you're looking for specifically, then maybe you belong in a different region of space.
I've been playing on and off for longer than you have, and I have not a single PVP kill (and only a few deaths, iirc) to my credit... but I'm still here. Your "PVP content is the only content people will keep subscribing for" argument looks like it's just an attempt to cover up your "wah highsec isn't what I want it to be" complaint.
I mean, the very fact that highsec IS so busy should indicate that a lot of Eve's players don't care for the more constant and higher risk of other areas of space, at least not all the time, right? So what if some people who are choosing to avoid PVP burn out on PVE and unsub? Do you think if they were exposed to a bunch of the PVP that they are trying to avoid that a majority of them wouldn't unsub too?
First: Every action taken in EVE = PVP. Also: Every assumption made in your post is nothing but that. An assumption. Wrong on top of that but in itself just an assumption. Hisec has become perfectly safe the last years resulting in subscription decline and loss of meaning/value of anything we do. NPC corp players that fit their ships slightly smart might aswel be NPC's themselves. People who are into EVE for PVE are not only sick but detract from the unique qualities the game has.
I'll leave it at that. Rant on.
D.
Darn, edit anyhow: PVE drones who are engaged by the game's deep meaningfull community driven core PVP have a good chance to be saved and stick arround forever, yes. What's your point again?
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4869
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 11:16:36 -
[12] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:There are definitely opportunities for PVP in highsec, but they are much worse than they used to be.
For aggressors, there are less ways to initiate a fight with cunning, meaning you need to fall back on the sledgehammer of overwhelming numbers and suicide ganking.
For defenders - there's less ways to set believable traps to catch baiters.
As for leaving high - it's one option, but most of the prey is in high. CODE and their sort limit themselves because of the prey they are looking to "fight'. Low and WH space are full of adversaries that you can actually fight. Don't limit yourself. Get beyond the ganks and go looking for actual fights. There are plenty of folks out there looking to swap paint and ammo (most of them don't fly covetors). I've been playing straight through since my born on date. I started as empire merc prey. Joined said mercs and had an absolute blast for several years (many thanks to Hans and all the other great folks I flew with). Moved to WH space and never looked back. WH space rich somewhat takes the edge off of the jitters that you speak of, but it's still there. Ditch empire and find a nice small gang wh corp and you'll see it's still a great game.
Low is empty, and (outside C5 and higher) wormholes are pretty empty too. C5/C6 holes require much more preparation to attack.
Prey density is at least twenty times higher in highsec than most of low.
Signed - Someone that would live in low, if doing so was truly viable.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Ro Fenrios
Armilies corporation Balcora Gatekeepers
58
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 12:17:47 -
[13] - Quote
When looking for pvp, head to FW low sec. Watch out for Dem force recon ships...
....damit. |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1192
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 12:30:03 -
[14] - Quote
I blame it on CCP pretty much endorsing wardec evasions.
It used to be a bannable action. Now its de riguer.
The safety switch didn't help, and neither did the recent corp safety switch, altho there are counters to that.
Hopefully with the new sov changes a lot of folks who normally wouldn't go into null will head on down and try their luck; combined with the jump and cyno changes I think the Big Blue Donut may get a lot less blue...;)
tldr It's all Ezwals fault.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Mikael Menethil
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 13:03:44 -
[15] - Quote
You have lowsec and null to kill yourselves all you want. Thats THE open world pvp experience, unrivaled. Yet.
You want more pvp in highsec? Tell me more about your comfort zone and how I should play a sandbox game.
I know some factions with the same "convert or die" mentality. They're in the Middle East. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
855
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 13:28:40 -
[16] - Quote
A haiku:
We like to pew pew Join us in Red verses Blue F.C. L.P. too |
Nicola Romanoff
Quantum Innovations Limited
10
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 13:31:37 -
[17] - Quote
I'll admit that I have not really tried pvp in high sec, it would be something that maybe fun should it be viable. Although by the very nature of this post it seems that it is less viable now than in the past.
Pvp in null sec on a solo basis is difficult at best due to blobs and low sec I find mainly lacking for solo type pvp too.
Everyone has their own styles of play, but as with everything if what you like to do gets diluted to the point that it isn't fun any more, whatever it is, be it pvp or pve then you will move on.
In saying that, I think if high sec life was that annoying that you have to deal with can flippers, easy wardecs and all those other things that make grieving easy then I think sub numbers would still drop as people would be so pissed off at being targeted that they would just move on anyway.
High sec needs to be safer than low, and low needs to be safer than null, but safer shouldn't mean safe. |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
252
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 14:09:59 -
[18] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Amarrchecko wrote:It's high sec. It's not supposed to be perfectly safe, and it isn't. But it's not supposed to be a warground where people who currently prefer to avoid most PVP are being chased around by someone like you. There is some PVP stuff going on in highsec, but if that isn't what you're looking for specifically, then maybe you belong in a different region of space.
I've been playing on and off for longer than you have, and I have not a single PVP kill (and only a few deaths, iirc) to my credit... but I'm still here. Your "PVP content is the only content people will keep subscribing for" argument looks like it's just an attempt to cover up your "wah highsec isn't what I want it to be" complaint.
I mean, the very fact that highsec IS so busy should indicate that a lot of Eve's players don't care for the more constant and higher risk of other areas of space, at least not all the time, right? So what if some people who are choosing to avoid PVP burn out on PVE and unsub? Do you think if they were exposed to a bunch of the PVP that they are trying to avoid that a majority of them wouldn't unsub too? First: Every action taken in EVE = PVP. Also: Every assumption made in your post is nothing but that. An assumption. Wrong on top of that but in itself just an assumption. Hisec has become perfectly safe the last years resulting in subscription decline and loss of meaning/value of anything we do. NPC corp players that fit their ships slightly smart might aswel be NPC's themselves. People who are into EVE for PVE are not only sick but detract from the unique qualities the game has. I'll leave it at that. Rant on. D. Darn, edit anyhow: PVE drones who are engaged by the game's deep meaningfull community driven core PVP have a good chance to be saved and stick arround forever, yes. What's your point again?
ive been around about 10 years now, mostly as an industrialist and pve pilot, aside from my few times of war and going on killing sprees against gankers. I enjoy the pve and other activities, I have gotten more fun out of killing gankers then killing innocents or others I have no reason killing, I even have a special ship I made and named for ganking gankers. I just choose to do industry to contribute to society, and I do pve to run my 1 account and assist others.
Ive seen people drop off because they get ganked or take a jump into low sec and instantly die before they can experience anything past death.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 14:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Danalee wrote:First: Every action taken in EVE = PVP. Also: Every assumption made in your post is nothing but that. An assumption. Wrong on top of that but in itself just an assumption. [b]Hisec has become perfectly safe the last years resulting in subscription decline and loss of meaning/value of anything we do. NPC corp players that fit their ships slightly smart might aswel be NPC's themselves. People who are into EVE for PVE are not only sick but detract from the unique qualities the game has. I'll leave it at that. Rant on. D. Darn, edit anyhow: PVE drones who are engaged by the game's deep meaningfull community driven core PVP have a good chance to be saved and stick arround forever, yes. What's your point again?
Highsec quite obviously isn't "perfectly safe."
And SPEAKING of assumptions, you're assuming that something that isn't even true (highsec being "perfectly safe") is the cause of subscription declines and YOU not feeling meaning in any activity YOU undertake?
Yikes. I know better than to try to converse much with folks like you, so now it's my turn to leave it at that. |
Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1153
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 17:01:45 -
[20] - Quote
Amarrchecko wrote: I know better than to try to converse much with folks like you, so now it's my turn to leave it at that. I know better than to try to converse much with folks. I know better than to try to converse
I know, so the question remains, why are you here?
D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1409
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 17:38:43 -
[21] - Quote
pheear the Assuminati. They seek to pollute our precious bodily fluids.
I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
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Iain Cariaba
1167
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 18:40:59 -
[22] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Long winded whine post... Dude, are you even playing EvE? Flying spaceships with underwater physics in a universe where you can shoot whoever you want, provided you're willing to pay the consequences?
You want to pewpew in highsec? There are lots of options. Try ganking, duel random people, join RvB or one of the many highsec merc corps.
Alternately, embrace the concept of HTFU, leave your security blanket behind, and get out of highsec. Lowsec, w-space, and nullsec are full of people that will pewpew against you.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
82
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 03:40:07 -
[23] - Quote
I seem to have uncorked some T2 passive-aggressive emotions with my posts. Honestly, I hope everyone enjoys the game. I don't have a problem with PVE or null players.
As for what I've tried, I've tried a lot of the stuff you guys recommend. I tried RvB and it's good, but it got repetitive. There are loads of great players down there who know actual damage and maneuver technique.
I am headed to null because I can't find fights in high I've tried null and low half a dozen times and I always end up losing interest and quitting. I'm hoping I can get into it more this time.
My problem is that I don't really love pvp. Simply fighting is ok, but it's not the best part. To me, the best part is the smack talk, the deception, the luring, the hunting, the ship swapping, the confusion tactics, and the overall experience that ends with shots fired.
That's the part of the game that's gone. That's the part I miss. Fleet warfare might as well be PVE in my opinion.
For those who think high sec players are no good..
I used to fight null players when I was a CEO in the orphanage. 17 war decs a week against the largest alliances in the game...
My corp back then was called Light Adama.... Think our kill ratio was about 20 to 1. You can look it up on battleclinic. We were war decking as much of null as we could each week. We did ok.
Not to disparage null players, but skill doesn't come from the region you play in. It comes from an understanding of game mechanics. There are good players everywhere.
I miss high sec piracy. Many of you hate high sec pirates.
I think high sec piracy was a feature, many of you think it was a bug.
I think the game PVE content is the weakest content. Many of you love it.
My opinion remains. I am enjoying those who post against it.
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
120
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 12:02:45 -
[24] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Stuff
You haven't uncovered any emotions, you are just being called out on your completely dishonest premises.
You miss highsec piracy? Go to Uedama or Niarja some time, or Jita. You make outrageous claims about pvp, pve and lifestyles of most of the game base.
You are thinly disguising your "nerf High Sec" dissertation as a "concerned nostalgic player".
Get over yourself.
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Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2205
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 12:38:52 -
[25] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote:Stuff
You haven't uncovered any emotions, you are just being called out on your completely dishonest premises. You miss highsec piracy? Go to Uedama or Niarja some time, or Jita. You make outrageous claims about pvp, pve and lifestyles of most of the game base. You are thinly disguising your "nerf High Sec" dissertation as a "concerned nostalgic player". Get over yourself.
I flew with mo in my young stages of EVE life. He knows his shyte.
I'm Leto. Who the hell are you?
Edit: you all need to look at his history and kill boards. In the corp I was in with mobadder, we were pure lowsec piracy. No highsec security blanket. He isn't a whiner, and was good at teaching new pilots.
I agree with many of his points and that highsec needs a Nerf.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
84
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Posted - 2015.03.21 13:26:27 -
[26] - Quote
Leto, I'm going to tell everyone that you said something nice.
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Dsparil
Einstein-Rosen Frontier Holdings Hell's Pirates
0
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Posted - 2015.03.21 13:49:15 -
[27] - Quote
I actually happen to agree and am going to type a civilized response.
High Sec is depleting. I guess there was enough crying from the carebears that CCP has decided to Mommy-Coddle them. I started bitching about it when the killrights thing became universal. Basically killed the purpose of concord and on top of that now we've got AWOXing coming to an end.
What originally attracted me to this game when I started playing like 3-ish or so years ago was the enormous risk involved in the game. It didn't matter where you went. It was a game for griefers and the risk that something could happen to you no matter where you went is what made it attractive. You didn't know what was waiting right around the corner so to speak. Now they're pushing very hard to make highsec safesec. AWOXing is gone. Killright mechanics have gone absolute full ****** and from what I've heard there's talk of wardecs being removed completely and any kind of pvp engagement being made impossible in high sec. If you're going to want pvp you'll have to go to low sec for faction warfare, K-Space or nullsec and put up with all the bullshit politics out there.
I'm sorry, but CCP better wake up and realize their game isn't that interesting for people stick around when the high sec mechanics are finally set up to Mommy-Coddle those who live there. People are going to leave in droves and that's the simple truth of it. There was a magazine article a few years ago that I had read before I joined the game that called EVE a game for "sociopaths and griefers" and that really is exactly what it was when I joined. the Griefers, pirates and assholes is what created the "risk" in the game and CCP is doing away with it arrogant thinking that the game will still have enough interesting value to keep people playing. Sorry but it wont. They've become a little too proud of this game and I don't think they're realizing that they're going to really stagnatize it.
I'm one of those people who absolutely hates nullsec, nullsec politics and giant fleets. Been there, done that and they really don't do it for me and I know I'm definitely not alone. Sorry but I don't get a thrill seeing my name on a killmail like 50 names down the list with 0.000001% dps contribution to an Apocalypse kill after having type "GF" in local for the billionth time with the FC screaming over coms to say only that or nothing at all.
All I can say to CCP is keep it up. Wont be long before I, and other people like me, are back in WoW camping the Stormwind gate, shooting lowbies and making them angry for the fun of it. |
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4088
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 20:05:27 -
[28] - Quote
I have removed a rule breaking post.
The Rules: 7. Discussion of real life religion and politics is prohibited.
Discussion of real life religion and politics is strictly prohibited on the EVE Online forums. Discussions of this nature often creates animosity between forum users due to real life political or military conflicts. CCP promotes the growth of a gaming community where equality is at the forefront. Nationalist, religious or political afiliations are not part of EVE Online, and should not be part of discussion on the EVE Online forums.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
85
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 20:38:02 -
[29] - Quote
I think the large scale gank organizations are not sustainable.
I see it as a last act of defiance by the high sec pvp players... But which will die in time. I think a good replacement game would pull those players very easily.
Once you try high sec pvp, it's impossible to go back. I have tried to go be a carebear and it's just a grind.
Will Eve be better when the bad guys are only NPCs? It will come in time if they just keep doing what they're doing.
When I was new, I thought PVE was the game and the pirates were an unnecessary evil.
Then I tried piracy.
Then I realized piracy/PVP is the game and PVE is a necessary evil.
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King Aires
nomnomnom MOAR BABIES The Pursuit of Happiness
52
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Posted - 2015.03.21 23:26:35 -
[30] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:I think the large scale gank organizations are not sustainable.
I see it as a last act of defiance by the high sec pvp players... But which will die in time. I think a good replacement game would pull those players very easily.
Once you try high sec pvp, it's impossible to go back. I have tried to go be a carebear and it's just a grind.
Will Eve be better when the bad guys are only NPCs? It will come in time if they just keep doing what they're doing.
When I was new, I thought PVE was the game and the pirates were an unnecessary evil.
Then I tried piracy.
Then I realized piracy/PVP is the game and PVE is a necessary evil.
WTF are you talking about. High sec PvP is far from dead. You just need to actually work a little for kills but the targets are plenty and the kills are beautiful.
You are just doing it wrong |
|
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
86
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 00:59:42 -
[31] - Quote
King Aires wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote:I think the large scale gank organizations are not sustainable.
I see it as a last act of defiance by the high sec pvp players... But which will die in time. I think a good replacement game would pull those players very easily.
Once you try high sec pvp, it's impossible to go back. I have tried to go be a carebear and it's just a grind.
Will Eve be better when the bad guys are only NPCs? It will come in time if they just keep doing what they're doing.
When I was new, I thought PVE was the game and the pirates were an unnecessary evil.
Then I tried piracy.
Then I realized piracy/PVP is the game and PVE is a necessary evil.
WTF are you talking about. High sec PvP is far from dead. You just need to actually work a little for kills but the targets are plenty and the kills are beautiful. You are just doing it wrong
I've always been doing it wrong according to CCP, I think. I've been petitioned enough times.
I checked your killboards. You're good at what you do. However, your playstyle and what I'm talking about are different.
You aren't wrong, and I could rejoin CEVL or one of the merc corps I helped build with relatively little effort. Then I could shoot flashies in Empire. I'm sure one of my previous corps would have me back. If finding flashies was what I wanted, I wouldn't be whining about it on the forums.
I want CCP to hear my complaint. There are people out there who know what I'm talking about.
Shooting unknown reds on site with no feedback besides "GF" and another fleet KM isn't that much fun to me. Honestly, I don't know what's fun about that for anyone.
I want small scale warfare and I want to meet and know my targets. I want to hunt them across empire. I want to smack talk them in local. I want it to matter whether I orbit or fly straight. I want to fly with such a tight knit group of guys to where it's more like a jam session than directed military operation.
I want to flip cans and steal stuff. I want to use rep ships to aggro people. I want to trick people. I want to cause chaos.
When we get done fighting, I want to teach those people to win against the next guy who war decs them.
I want to make friends and enemies. I think that's the point of a MMO.
I'm assuming from the quantity of Jita/pipeline kills that you're a in merc corp. I didn't see a lot of small stuff and your point averages indicate that you're mostly fleet. I didn't go back far enough to see when you came to high sec, but you're listed online for mostly 0.0.
I think you're doing good work and I'm glad the merc scene is still intact. However, that's not what I'm talking about and it's not what I'm interested in.
For you, keep up the good work.
Yeah, I probably am doing it wrong. That's my style. It used to be a lot of fun.
Mo
|
Pilot Error Randomize
Playboy Enterprises Dark Taboo
9
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 01:32:55 -
[32] - Quote
to ^ You are describing lowsec but in empire space. Otherwise wardec and go hunting. Highsec is needed for those learning the complexities of the game. If anything, create some sort of pro-longed event that slowly shrinks highsec into lowsec, or create some sort of midsec. Im just throwing off top of my head ideas here.
Headache incoming so I apologize for not giving any intricacies.
-You're not a pirate. You're a Griefing Carebear.
|
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
875
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 06:34:50 -
[33] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:There are definitely opportunities for PVP in highsec, but they are much worse than they used to be.
For aggressors, there are less ways to initiate a fight with cunning, meaning you need to fall back on the sledgehammer of overwhelming numbers and suicide ganking.
For defenders - there's less ways to set believable traps to catch baiters.
As for leaving high - it's one option, but most of the prey is in high. CODE and their sort limit themselves because of the prey they are looking to "fight'. Low and WH space are full of adversaries that you can actually fight. Don't limit yourself. Get beyond the ganks and go looking for actual fights. There are plenty of folks out there looking to swap paint and ammo (most of them don't fly covetors). I've been playing straight through since my born on date. I started as empire merc prey. Joined said mercs and had an absolute blast for several years (many thanks to Hans and all the other great folks I flew with). Moved to WH space and never looked back. WH space rich somewhat takes the edge off of the jitters that you speak of, but it's still there. Ditch empire and find a nice small gang wh corp and you'll see it's still a great game. Low is empty, and (outside C5 and higher) wormholes are pretty empty too. C5/C6 holes require much more preparation to attack. Prey density is at least twenty times higher in highsec than most of low. Signed - Someone that would live in low, if doing so was truly viable.
Utter garbage. We can both name 5 or so lowsex systems where you can ALWAYS get some sort of fight. I'll go first.... Amamake.
Other utter garbage.... low end wh are alive and kicking w/ the crappy null relic sites in them (what some folks do for 3 mil isk is amazing) and the c5/c6 has a few big boys, a few little boys and a lot of empty systems.
You've obviously not been out of empire in 8 months or more. There is a lot of fun to be had outside of k-space, just not a lot of 'prey'. Don't get me wrong, Repo Industries cut it's teeth on empire warfare / hs merc stuff, so I've done more than my share. But having been there AND other places... aside from 3 glorious real fights 3 years of empire 'pvp' was 3 years of clubbing seals. I won't lie, at the time I enjoyed it a lot, had a great time and learned a lot of pvp stuff. It's mostly ganks and pvp savy small gangs womping up on novices. If you find HS merc work challengeing then you're pretty bad at 'pvp'. Challenging and fun are two distinctly different things.
What CODE does may be fun to them, but it isn't challenging and it isn't pvp. Sure they've knocked boots a few times w/ one group or another, but your business plan has nothing to do with pvp. Just ganks, tears and role playing (that deep deep totally consuming hard core "I believe" kind of role playing that makes me scratch my head in bemused wonder). Saying LS and low end wh are dead just shows what you don't know.
My advice stands - you want small gang or even solo pvp - your best odds for an actually heart pounding fight will be in lowsex or wh space. You want to club some baby seals for the lulz, then do empire stuff. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
876
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 07:04:44 -
[34] - Quote
Mo, if you want to have fun, go to Umokka and flip some loots. Your crime watch flag will bring them in like moths to a flame. Just be aware, they clump up pretty quickly. 3 of us dual boxing soon moved on to greener pastures (Apanake) because we got tired of getting over run. They band together and fight. If you wanna flip, that's the place to do it, just realise the folks in that system have their act together, so you better show up ready to roll..... probably pretty heavy. |
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
88
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 08:01:41 -
[35] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Mo, if you want to have fun, go to Umokka and flip some loots. Your crime watch flag will bring them in like moths to a flame. Just be aware, they clump up pretty quickly. 3 of us dual boxing soon moved on to greener pastures (Apanake) because we got tired of getting over run. They band together and fight. If you wanna flip, that's the place to do it, just realise the folks in that system have their act together, so you better show up ready to roll..... probably pretty heavy.
Actually, most of my recent kills are in Umokka doing just that. I don't multi box and all my friends in that area quit, so it's true solo. It can get a little"touch and go." They may be baby seals, but you can only club so many at once. High sec gets no respect, but flipping ain't easy.
A guy there gave me a really nice officer AB a few days ago. (I'm not sure CCP is aware how good the faction drop rate is on mission runners"
I try to get them into a station hump with me because that keeps the odds from being as overwhelming, but even so I'm lucky to get a fight every couple days and I know it's only a matter of time before I lose. I'm currently trying another null alliance... The pvp down here really isn't more challenging than what I was doing in Umokka, but there is more of it.
I used to be able to turn local into a circuis and inspire people to come out and fight/watch fights. I could pick fights and teach. Met lots of cool people doing it. It was fun for almost all of the participants... And I'm whining about it being gone.
The new crime watch rules and high war dec costs drove most of my friends away. Suicide ganks aren't fun or challenging. I keep looking.
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
865
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 08:49:43 -
[36] - Quote
You can still have a lot of fun in highsec. You just need to be a bit creative. I know, many people will tell you "ganking is not pvp" and "honor". They are just too stupid to see the bigger picture.
I use ganking mainly as a way to interact with people who are doing some PvE stuff. This will usually get their attention or make some other local wanabe heroes really mad. They can't touch me, because i am a -10 char and i only undock to gank and every fight would be spoiled by the faction police anyway.
However, there is always my scout available if they seek retribution. He even has a not so cheap killright for the really mad hero with too much ISK, which will obviously be transfered to my alt and pay the next batch of catalysts. Or they can try to suicide gank my scout, I always make sure everyone knows who my scout is, but they will fail and I get a killright which may be used if they don't expect it and maybe run a mission or something.Or you may trick them into engaging you while you loot the wreck of the ganked ship and go suspect, make sure you have an Orca with a proper PvP ship nearby
This are just some examples of what you can do. There is a lot more you can do and I change it from time to time and try new things. But it is interesting gameplay, it is all about people and how they react. Pray is everywhere and in big numbers, just go to a busy area with 0.7 or lower. Just always be nice and helpful, the only things you should harm is their spaceship, their pod and their wallets.
Suicide ganking allone can be alot of fun too, if you just want to relax, just login and see some nice explotions.
the Code ALWAYS wins
|
Capt Sephiroth
14
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 10:44:53 -
[37] - Quote
From what I have read you are basically complaining about people not falling for traps and evading war decs, or well doing precisely the same thing you did for your 1st 2 years in high sec. High sec is a place where people 1st spawn into, its the starting area, and its riskier to live in high sec than it is in null sec. In most games today you can't even attack people in starting areas, either by not being allowed to enter or you just cant attack them until they attack you. In any case high sec remains quite risky and new players are quite vulnerable compared to other games.
Few months back I made a trial toon just to see what the new players are getting into these days. If you didn't have any help from anyone, didn't do any research yourself, went just by trial and error you would have such a hard time, and it takes such a long time to get any isk on your own. I played with it for couple of hours then finally managed to get enough isk to go and just buy better m4 guns, and not even the most powerful m4 cause they were just so expensive for me, docked, bought it, and on undock I see some ass hat throwing a duel at me. To a 1 day old toon in a thrasher. I can easily see people even accepting that duel request cause in most games dueling someone means that you will not die, but the fight will end when you reach 1% of your hp, unlike in eve where you can lose your ship and even your pod. Which can be quite devastating to a new player that just farmed for hours in poorly fitted ship with poor skills and having absolutely no idea about the game besides what the basic and time consuming tutorial gave them.
The same mechanics that are protecting the people in npc and player corps are protecting the "pirates" and other "pvp" leet of eve. As this Code drone said "They can't touch me, because i am a -10 char and i only undock to gank and every fight would be spoiled by the faction police anyway." That's the problem there as well, gankers are quite protected from retaliation so most people just ignore them and look for ways to protect themselves cause going after them makes no sense or requires to much effort for not that much of an impact as they fly cheap ships and empty pods.
As you look at killboards of other people I decided to take a look at yours. Your most recent kill or well death was in October 2014, and before that you had some kills and deaths in September and one more in march and that's it for 2014, in 2013 you were active in low sec space where you don't have a single solo venture, then we move to 2012 where you were active in high sec killing or taking advantage of newbies and people that had no clue on what they were doing and there also you didn't kill many solo or even when listed as the single shooter we can't be sure if that was solo or not cause of the neutral or fleet reppers, and that trend continues further down the road. I won't go beyond that but in recent history you didn't fight one single war vs any of the mercs (where some of them know the how high sec and pvp work).
That is the kind of "pvp"-er that you have been recently, and from that the only conclusion that you are here ranting about high sec mechanics is cause you can't kill newbies or other unskilled, unprepared, unaware and uneducated people in high sec as easily as you wish. If you wanted to do so you could have joined marmite for example, they have wars up constantly and they are doing the same thing you want to do, catch and kill the unskilled, unprepared, unaware and uneducated people in high sec.
If you say that many people will quit the game cause of that and those are the people that think the same way you do, then by all means, gather them around you, make a corp, move to low sec fw space or wh space or after the delay in null to null sec and do your own thing there, smack talk, you will surely make both new friends and enemies, hell you can even do that in high sec.
High sec is safer to a certain degree because its a starting and learning area of eve and its still more dangerous than some other parts of space such as null or low sec, just because its free for all in theory there is local that prevents from hunting and jumping on semi aware people and the politics of blue balls. The people that you fight there might actually be people that want to fight you and are able to show you their teeth which from that recent kb of yours has been shown you got your ass handed to you in those 1v1 fights so you came here to complain about high sec where you can't fight infants.
Wall of text, I know. And this isn't all I wanted to say.
Best regards
Capt Seph |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
182
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 11:31:42 -
[38] - Quote
To repeat what was said before: leave highsec.
When I'm out for some relaxing play on the weekends and no interesting fleet is up I'm cruising lowsec solo in a frig. My set goal is to hunt and kill ships above my class, or being more expensive, or doing stupid things. Believe me, this is more fun than sitting on a trade hub cause it requires active hunting and evasion strategies. Fun conversations in local included.
If you want to stay in highsec, MTU baiting is becoming very popular lately.
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2207
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 11:32:33 -
[39] - Quote
Lol @ 1v1 fights meaning anything.
Most 1v1 experts fly around in fast kitey crap and will only ever engage things they know for certain they can kite and destroy, or run away when they realize the Harpy is rail fit. That's no better than being in the blob, and certainly doesn't make you any more of an elite PvP god than anyone else.
This is EVE. If you find yourself in a fair fight, either you or your opponent has failed in planning and execution.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
|
Capt Sephiroth
14
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 11:34:30 -
[40] - Quote
Well considering he died the last 2 1v1 means that he either failed in planning and or execution? |
|
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2207
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 11:44:35 -
[41] - Quote
Capt Sephiroth wrote:Well considering he died the last 2 1v1 means that he either failed in planning and or execution?
Yes, perhaps :)
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
|
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
92
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 13:11:38 -
[42] - Quote
Capt Sephiroth wrote:Well considering he died the last 2 1v1 means that he either failed in planning and or execution?
I post on battleclinic.
If you found me on the other ones, it is the stuff other people posted. Usually, off your kb you see disproportionate loss levels.
I don't think you described my stats very well, but I understand that. There are a lot of kbs out there.
I want you to consider your hatred towards people like me and compare it to the way you feel about NPCs. I ask you, would this game be better if there was nobody to hate?
I don't think you would like it as much. A game needs villains. I just happen to like playing one.
|
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
92
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 13:25:54 -
[43] - Quote
Also, If you are talking about my last couple losses...
Look who killed me and with what. Those guys in Dodixie schooled me on bump gangs... And I lost a phoon to a bhaalgorn.
I'm not ashamed. If you aren't losing ships, you're not trying. I shouldn't have picked a fight with the Dodixie pvp collective. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
120
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 14:50:07 -
[44] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Capt Sephiroth wrote:Well considering he died the last 2 1v1 means that he either failed in planning and or execution? I post on battleclinic. If you found me on the other ones, it is the stuff other people posted. Usually, off your kb you see disproportionate loss levels. I don't think you described my stats very well, but I understand that. There are a lot of kbs out there. I want you to consider your hatred towards people like me and compare it to the way you feel about NPCs. I ask you, would this game be better if there was nobody to hate? I don't think you would like it as much. A game needs villains. I just happen to like playing one.
You know there is this thing called API and that most of the killboards out there link together loses right? I api to zkillboard and magically battleclinic (lol) still gets all my kills :D
Anyways, stop complaining that your targets are getting better at this game than you are. Nerfing highsec does nothing to help your poor pvp skills. |
Capt Sephiroth
14
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 14:59:01 -
[45] - Quote
As you mentioned you post on battleclinic which doesn't state the loss of your jaguar so I would rather believe zkillboard even without the loss of that typhoon cause people are more prone to somehow forget to post their deaths than to forget about posting their kills, in any way battleclinic doesn't have your jag loss while zkb doesn't have your typhoon loss, doesn't even matter that much at all. My main point was never to discuss of how good of a pilot you were but it was just a footnote that explained some of your views regarding high sec "pvp".
I don't hate you at all, do I think highly of you, no, but hate, that's not at all what I feel about you, or as you put it people like you... Why do you think if someone disagrees with you they must hate you? Even if someone does hate you by disagreeing with you does that thought that you are being hatted for something you said or done make you feel all warm and tingly inside? Alas I have to disappoint you there, however you have my permission to think that I hate you so you can get your jitters up.
As I said, high sec is fine the way it is when it comes to forcing people to pvp when they do not want, wish, aren't prepared, and so on for it, however people are not safe, can they be killed, yes, are they getting killed, yes, so all your views about high sec being safe is false. Crime watch if anything shouldn't allow neutral logistics, but that single change would ruin the day of all the leet pvpers, such as suspect baiters and can flippers and so on more than any other player, or if anything still waiting for the day where logi love is being included into killmails so all those solo kills will be solo kills.
As this post has shown there are not a lot of people that think like you, not even enough to form a small gang you would so easily lead into fame. Other people smarter than me stated and posted suggesting you more than few ways of achieving what you are saying isn't available in high sec. Gather people that have the same opinion as you and are not afraid of leaving high sec to go to low sec, after the delay or removal of local in null sec, to thera space or wormhole space. You have wast options on where to go to achieve what you and your guys wish without being selfish enough to ask and promote the change of space where new bro's spawn and learn on that narrow view they are given when they 1st open their eyes in New Eden. And in all honesty you guys should be having more fun there. I for one compare killing people that don't want to pvp by tricking them into it as when a, using WoW as reference cause its better known, maxed level toon coming to low level areas and killing people, guards, vendors and so on and so forth to disrupt their game and take out their own inability to stand on par with people of his own level as an equal. If that is what a true pvp-er does than I wouldn't want to ever be one.
Forever best wishes in finding your way
Capt Seph |
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
96
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 15:40:03 -
[46] - Quote
Look, 1) my API is on battleclinic, not zkillboard. You can figure out which one is more likely to be accurate and check if in telling the truth. The jag kill is and has been on battleclinic. As far as I know, all of my kills and losses are on battleclinic.
2) I have not been dishonest or rude. I merely stated my opinions.
3) Attacking my skill level or intellectual aptitude doesn't have much to do with whether I'm right or wrong. I'm more griefer than bully... Which may not be the trend here. I can tell you that I never disrespect or discourage my opponents.
4) I respect that you think I'm wrong. But I also respect my right to be wrong. I will continue saying what I think.
5) For those who offered useful or legit advice, thanks for taking the time to try to help me. There were some good ideas for both high sec and otherwise. I am trying null again (as I mentioned in one of my early posts). I hope I enjoy it more this time.
6) if you want to teach me how to solo pvp, I do love to learn. Invite me for a lesson....
7) I still can't believe Leto said something nice. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
553
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 15:47:23 -
[47] - Quote
go to nullsec...highsec is not designed to allow easy PvP, and quite rightly allows its residents to focus on PvE and wealth accumulation. No one is forcing you to live in it, so if you want a different playstyle, go somewhere else. |
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2212
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 16:56:49 -
[48] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
7) I still can't believe Leto said something nice.
I am an azzhole. But as many here will vouch from my personal dealings with them, I'm an honest azzhole.
And if you want to get in with a fun group of like minded space jerks, hit us up. Origin. is currently recruiting. I haven't been in long enough to provide a vouch, but it couldn't hurt to apply. We fleet many times daily, and the FC's ALL know their stuff.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
|
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1410
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 17:12:16 -
[49] - Quote
Veers, you make more sense when you take those nuts out of your mouth. Some of us actually like pvp in highsec. Just because you do not like it does not mean that it is any less a valid form of gameplay.
I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
|
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
100
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 17:43:42 -
[50] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote:
7) I still can't believe Leto said something nice.
I am an azzhole. But as many here will vouch from my personal dealings with them, I'm an honest azzhole. And if you want to get in with a fun group of like minded space jerks, hit us up. Origin. is currently recruiting. I haven't been in long enough to provide a vouch, but it couldn't hurt to apply. We fleet many times daily, and the FC's ALL know their stuff.
Leto, I may soon be begging for a job.
It has been popularly determined that I'm pretty crap though, so take that into consideration.
I'm in null right now. I sold some officer mods that were gifted to me by the people of Umokka to buy a raven.
I purchased every module available within nine jumps and am now the proud owner of a rocket fit armor rep raven with heavy ecm capabilities and a tractor beam.
I felt pretty self conscious about it, but I've had three people tell me it's a good fit for fleets.
Maybe I'll like null... |
|
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2213
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 17:52:47 -
[51] - Quote
I advise selling the raven, purchasing a harpy, and erasing the post above immediately.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
|
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
103
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 18:32:29 -
[52] - Quote
Ok, I just can't resist.
If you look at the post "will CCP be hiring marmites", CCP acknowledges that noobs who get ganked play longer...
I think that supports my assertion that the PVE model isn't a good standalone. We need PVPers in the same systems throwing cans and war deccing.
Clearly, I am good content. Woo!
What do you think? Mo |
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2217
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 18:36:16 -
[53] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Ok, I just can't resist.
If you look at the post "will CCP be hiring marmites", CCP acknowledges that noobs who get ganked play longer...
I think that supports my assertion that the PVE model isn't a good standalone. We need PVPers in the same systems throwing cans and war deccing.
Clearly, I am good content. Woo!
What do you think? Mo
It has different effects on different people. For me, being roflstomped by break a wish motivated me to learn the real game. For others, it means they uninstall and go back k to wow.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
|
Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1155
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 18:38:54 -
[54] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Ok, I just can't resist.
If you look at the post "will CCP be hiring marmites", CCP acknowledges that noobs who get ganked play longer...
I think that supports my assertion that the PVE model isn't a good standalone. We need PVPers in the same systems throwing cans and war deccing.
What do you think? Mo
I'll pipe up again, however unpopular my opinion is on these forums
These forums represent a very small percentage of the playerbase. Hisec is turning into supersafe lalaland. CCP just started noticing this is the wrong way to go.
Keep representing the playstyle which is the only reason EVE still exists: the way of the pirate, canflipper, scammer, *******, diplomat, explorer, salesman, etc.. etc... Each and every one of these foundations requires humans to interact. If you are interacting, you are doing your part. Enjoy it, you've earned it. Forum trolls be darned.
D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
|
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
103
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 18:52:13 -
[55] - Quote
Danalee,
While Leto got his induction from BreakAWish, it was the Somali Coastguard Authority who christened me.
They broke my noob ships like Belushi smashed that guitar in Animal House.
I had a moment of pause when I saw your corp name. I thought perhaps EYL was riding again.
Those really were the good old days. |
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2217
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 18:55:46 -
[56] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote:Ok, I just can't resist.
If you look at the post "will CCP be hiring marmites", CCP acknowledges that noobs who get ganked play longer...
I think that supports my assertion that the PVE model isn't a good standalone. We need PVPers in the same systems throwing cans and war deccing.
What do you think? Mo I'll pipe up again, however unpopular my opinion is on these forums These forums represent a very small percentage of the playerbase. Hisec is turning into supersafe lalaland. CCP just started noticing this is the wrong way to go. Keep representing the playstyle which is the only reason EVE still exists: the way of the pirate, canflipper, scammer, *******, diplomat, explorer, salesman, etc.. etc... Each and every one of these foundations requires humans to interact. If you are interacting, you are doing your part. Enjoy it, you've earned it. Forum trolls be darned. D.
Some of us enjoy your posts.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Dsparil
Einstein-Rosen Frontier Holdings Hell's Pirates
4
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 19:50:38 -
[57] - Quote
High Sec may be a starting and learning area, but part of this game is learning to cope with loss. Get used to it. Because high sec is nothing compared to the loss you'll experience in null sec. If you think losing a single mining barge is expensive, wait til your FC and alliance leaders tell you to get about 5 to 6 battleships up fully fitted and ready to go for CTAs. Sorry but people who whine about barge losses as if it's some great travesty against mankind have clearly never played EVE. Again there's that learning issue.
ETA: I forget who the hell made the long post and I'm too lazy to go look up the name so this is directed at them. |
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
104
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 20:14:58 -
[58] - Quote
Back when I joined the game the tutorial wasn't so formulaic.
As I recall, I was gifted a kestrel and advised to start killing Gallente.
I undocked into a hotbed of baiting, can flipping, and griefing.
What do you think was the first thing I wanted to do? Mine?
Nope, concord got my Kestrel.
The idea of playing this game in a non-pvp fashion is learned. We all intend to slaughter our adversaries when we start.
Imagine a single player version of Eve... Worst game ever.
No wonder getting exposed to pvp early retains people. |
Capt Sephiroth
14
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 21:11:03 -
[59] - Quote
Nothing changed from then except new people are now bit more protected from their own inexperience and tad harder to bait in into situation of their certain demise. The thing you are missing is that most new players might even want to PvP however their 1st priority at start is to learn the mechanics of the game and find a fastest route to pay the game with isk. Also some people don't want to PvP with ships at all, they like the game for some other aspects, mining, manufacturing, research, exploration, market manipulation, spying, banking and all other countless possibilities that eve offers. In any of those directions I mentioned they are doing PvP in their own manner, getting earlier to outmine some other player miner or hiring mercs to chase them away, manufacturing and eventually selling the item on market fighting other industry people so they could get highest profit for their work, research fighting with other players for the price and or bps, exploration with other players over sites, market manipulation again with players that are doing the same thing. All that in relative safety that high sec offers. So why are you being so selfish in asking CCP to make it easier for you to shoot people that have no interest into shooting back or shooting at all?? You yourself said that for the 1st years of your eve life you dodged wars, switched corps to avoid "PvP", and now when you think you learned enough you want CCP to make it easier for you to pick on the people that are doing the same thing you yourself did.
For Dsparil
I never said that high sec should become a place where people are invulnerable, not once, I said that it is dangerous enough as it is and that people who know how to use it and don't mind going the extra distance can easily find "pvp". I said that it shouldn't be made easier for more experienced players to pick on the less experienced and knowledgeable that are not even prepared for PvP and easily thrown into an always bad situation for them. High sec should remain the learning space.
For people that want to do real PvP they should do so through war decs so they themselves can always be targeted, both when they are and they are not prepared, or better yet go to low, null, thera or wh space where they are again a valid target the whole time.
Are you really comparing yourself who is living in null space with high enough sp and are able to hoard in enough isk quite easily being in alliances and coalitions that have SRP programs that replace each and every lost ship in an authorized FC lead battle and a newbie of a week, two, month, 3 months and their ability and knowledge on how to gather isk. Killing that one retriever a person mined for in a venture took days and days of mining hits much harder for that single person than you losing then given back those 5-6 battleships which are probably T1 with T2 fits so you need like a day of farming to prep for that.
Hope you stay in null after the removal or delay of local hits.
Best regards
Capt Seph |
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2225
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 21:11:08 -
[60] - Quote
I am pretty sure my first loss was also to CONCORD....
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
|
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Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2225
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 21:12:31 -
[61] - Quote
Seph...
To my dismay, no mention of delayed local was made at any of the sessions I attended at fan fest.
The new fitting screen is awesome however....
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
|
Capt Sephiroth
16
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 22:04:11 -
[62] - Quote
But fozzie talked about it in the interview :( |
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2226
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 22:31:22 -
[63] - Quote
Capt Sephiroth wrote:But fozzie talked about it in the interview :(
He sure did. I am hopeful that I simply missed it...
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Tasspool Harp
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 22:36:52 -
[64] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Ok, I just can't resist.
If you look at the post "will CCP be hiring marmites", CCP acknowledges that noobs who get ganked play longer...
I think that supports my assertion that the PVE model isn't a good standalone. We need PVPers in the same systems throwing cans and war deccing.
Clearly, I am good content. Woo!
What do you think? Mo
My interpretation is that players naturally predisposed to engaging in risky behaviour and accepting of losses are more likely to stick around. Those same players are also more likely to get ganked while they are noobs.
Personally, I think wardecs that target noobs in noob corps isn't good for the game. It channels people into the safety umbrella of larger entities and has players who are comfortable playing solo drop into npc corps or roll their own 1 man corp. Nothing wrong with big alliances and 1 man corps in isolation, but if you are interested in promoting chaos and fluidity in the game there needs to be some room and encouragement for small, nascent corps to develop. |
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2226
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 22:43:58 -
[65] - Quote
Tasspool Harp wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote:Ok, I just can't resist.
If you look at the post "will CCP be hiring marmites", CCP acknowledges that noobs who get ganked play longer...
I think that supports my assertion that the PVE model isn't a good standalone. We need PVPers in the same systems throwing cans and war deccing.
Clearly, I am good content. Woo!
What do you think? Mo My interpretation is that players naturally predisposed to engaging in risky behaviour and accepting of losses are more likely to stick around. Those same players are also more likely to get ganked while they are noobs. Personally, I think wardecs that target noobs in noob corps isn't good for the game. It channels people into the safety umbrella of larger entities and has players who are comfortable playing solo drop into npc corps or roll their own 1 man corp. Nothing wrong with big alliances and 1 man corps in isolation, but if you are interested in promoting chaos and fluidity in the game there needs to be some room and encouragement for small, nascent corps to develop.
I was decced as a noob, in a failbear alliance. It pushed me out indeed.... But towards lowsec and meeting others willing to show me the real eve. Those corps all everywhere. Many take new pilots in. All you need to do is fight them a few times and show them you don't whine about losses and that you can be social.
As such... I think I am the very example of a counterpoint to your post. Respectfully, of course.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
|
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
881
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 23:36:18 -
[66] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Tasspool Harp wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote:Ok, I just can't resist.
If you look at the post "will CCP be hiring marmites", CCP acknowledges that noobs who get ganked play longer...
I think that supports my assertion that the PVE model isn't a good standalone. We need PVPers in the same systems throwing cans and war deccing.
Clearly, I am good content. Woo!
What do you think? Mo My interpretation is that players naturally predisposed to engaging in risky behaviour and accepting of losses are more likely to stick around. Those same players are also more likely to get ganked while they are noobs. Personally, I think wardecs that target noobs in noob corps isn't good for the game. It channels people into the safety umbrella of larger entities and has players who are comfortable playing solo drop into npc corps or roll their own 1 man corp. Nothing wrong with big alliances and 1 man corps in isolation, but if you are interested in promoting chaos and fluidity in the game there needs to be some room and encouragement for small, nascent corps to develop. I was decced as a noob, in a failbear alliance. It pushed me out indeed.... But towards lowsec and meeting others willing to show me the real eve. Those corps all everywhere. Many take new pilots in. All you need to do is fight them a few times and show them you don't whine about losses and that you can be social. As such... I think I am the very example of a counterpoint to your post. Respectfully, of course.
My first corp was war decced by Repo Industries and look where I am now |
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
109
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 00:43:04 -
[67] - Quote
At 50 mil for a war dec, that better be a very large noob corp.
Noob corps are really awful about not fighting. You have to give them an overwhelming numbers advantage or they won't take the field.
I used to try to find corps that considered themselves at least part pvp.
The chance of a fight goes up a lot. For 50 mil, I would guess most guys don't want to waste it on a true noob corp.
Now, the range of crappy pvp'ers ranges from pretty new to the grunts of most large null alliances. It's still just clubbing baby seals, the only thing that changes is which club to use and, sometimes, there is a guy or two with skill in the mix.
No, can flipping is where the noobs get it. The noob training centers used to be the best places in the game for getting pick-up fights.
Noobs attracted new PVPers, new PVPers attracted mid grade PVPers, and mid grade PVPers attracted senior skilled players. You would see war fleets some times, but mostly it was just baiters, flippers, and the like.
Most knew what they were doing when the accepted combat. But either way, at least they got to experience it. Those systems were a lot of fun.
Mo
|
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2110
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 01:17:01 -
[68] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Danalee,
While Leto got his induction from BreakAWish, it was the Somali Coastguard Authority who christened me.
They broke my noob ships like Belushi smashed that guitar in Animal House.
I had a moment of pause when I saw your corp name. I thought perhaps EYL was riding again.
Those really were the good old days. You know where we are if you wish to come back home
TORA FOR CSM X - A NEW HIGH-SEC
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
|
Kaely Tanniss
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
297
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 07:07:46 -
[69] - Quote
Agondray wrote:Danalee wrote:Amarrchecko wrote:It's high sec. It's not supposed to be perfectly safe, and it isn't. But it's not supposed to be a warground where people who currently prefer to avoid most PVP are being chased around by someone like you. There is some PVP stuff going on in highsec, but if that isn't what you're looking for specifically, then maybe you belong in a different region of space.
I've been playing on and off for longer than you have, and I have not a single PVP kill (and only a few deaths, iirc) to my credit... but I'm still here. Your "PVP content is the only content people will keep subscribing for" argument looks like it's just an attempt to cover up your "wah highsec isn't what I want it to be" complaint.
I mean, the very fact that highsec IS so busy should indicate that a lot of Eve's players don't care for the more constant and higher risk of other areas of space, at least not all the time, right? So what if some people who are choosing to avoid PVP burn out on PVE and unsub? Do you think if they were exposed to a bunch of the PVP that they are trying to avoid that a majority of them wouldn't unsub too? First: Every action taken in EVE = PVP. Also: Every assumption made in your post is nothing but that. An assumption. Wrong on top of that but in itself just an assumption. Hisec has become perfectly safe the last years resulting in subscription decline and loss of meaning/value of anything we do. NPC corp players that fit their ships slightly smart might aswel be NPC's themselves. People who are into EVE for PVE are not only sick but detract from the unique qualities the game has. I'll leave it at that. Rant on. D. Darn, edit anyhow: PVE drones who are engaged by the game's deep meaningfull community driven core PVP have a good chance to be saved and stick arround forever, yes. What's your point again? ive been around about 10 years now, mostly as an industrialist and pve pilot, aside from my few times of war and going on killing sprees against gankers. I enjoy the pve and other activities, I have gotten more fun out of killing gankers then killing innocents or others I have no reason killing, I even have a special ship I made and named for ganking gankers. I just choose to do industry to contribute to society, and I do pve to run my 1 account and assist others. Ive seen people drop off because they get ganked or take a jump into low sec and instantly die before they can experience anything past death.
Ganking gankers...good, this is the content and emergent gameplay that gankers and PvPers seek from the risk averse players. Killing innocents? There are no innocents in new eden. When you joined the game, you joined a galaxy in turmoil and have now made yourself an active pawn in this turmoil. Contribute to society? PvPers contribute heavily to society. Without them, there would be rampant boredom. Besides, what good would all the isk or minerals do if PvPers didn't create the market for the ships said resources create.
People do not "drop off" because of ganking. This whole idea has been slammed and disproven. People quit because they are bored or can't hack what Eve is all about. Eve isn't for everyone just like hockey isn't for everyone. Don't ask to change how the game is played just so you' will like it...that's just ridiculous. Take it for what it is...or do something else. (I don't mean you specifically..but you as a generalization)
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Malthraz
Malthraz.
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 11:03:16 -
[70] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote: My corp back then was called Light Adama.... Think our kill ratio was about 20 to 1. You can look it up on battleclinic. We were war decking as much of null as we could each week. We did ok.
Not to disparage null players, but skill doesn't come from the region you play in. It comes from an understanding of game mechanics. There are good players everywhere.
I see what is going on here. It is now harder to take advantage of noobs in high sec. That was how you felt like you were good at PvP. That is unfortunate. Going to PvP elsewhere does not give you that sense of power. I feel for you. |
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Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1202
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 12:44:34 -
[71] - Quote
^^ Yes, that's exactly what this thread is about
You forgot to go for the homerun by mentioning how good (elite?) you are at pressing F1 and all that jazz. Might want to edit your post to reflect that. Oh, and maybe clarify your point after you are done bragging about your little corner of space... Or whatever it is you are bragging about.
D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
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Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
157
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 13:09:48 -
[72] - Quote
Malthraz wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote: My corp back then was called Light Adama.... Think our kill ratio was about 20 to 1. You can look it up on battleclinic. We were war decking as much of null as we could each week. We did ok.
Not to disparage null players, but skill doesn't come from the region you play in. It comes from an understanding of game mechanics. There are good players everywhere.
I see what is going on here. It is now harder to take advantage of noobs in high sec. That was how you felt like you were good at PvP. That is unfortunate. Going to PvP elsewhere does not give you that sense of power. I feel for you.
Light Adama wasn't about noobs (though we shot some).
Light Adama was about shooting null clowns. That was the corp we used in the Orphanage. I can link info in the Orphanage is you're not familiar. When I joined us up, we were promised a minimum of 10 war decs a week against the largest null alliances.
We quit when the orphanage got too large because it got too easy.
That 20/1 was still clubbing baby seals, but they weren't really noobs.
You really don't see what I'm talking about, but I'd love to make more understand. |
Daerrol
Furtherance.
76
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 13:25:13 -
[73] - Quote
Highsec PVP is laughably stupid. You can go to Thera and do Highsec PVP against other highsec PVPer's where there's actaully a chance for a real fight (not killing 30 punishers with various shield fittings and no point mod) |
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
160
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 14:28:42 -
[74] - Quote
Daerrol wrote:Highsec PVP is laughably stupid. You can go to Thera and do Highsec PVP against other highsec PVPer's where there's actaully a chance for a real fight (not killing 30 punishers with various shield fittings and no point mod)
If you check this battle report, you will see some of those punisher builds you are talking about.
This particular fight crossed systems, so Nolimit and I had only a portion on this battle-report. You can view all the punishes that didn't get on this on battleclinic, if you choose.
I don't really think you know what you are talking about.
I suspect you are a baby seal.
|
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
33738
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 15:45:47 -
[75] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:The idea of playing this game in a non-pvp fashion is learned. We all intend to slaughter our adversaries when we start.
Not really. Believe it or not, not everyone plays the sandbox the same way.
Mobadder Thworst wrote:No wonder getting exposed to pvp early retains people.
Sure, if you look at people that join the game wanting to PvP staying after experiencing PvP. The irony is that EVE's model makes the traiditional PvP embedded the least interesting part of the game. Then you should consider how much time you spend trying to get a fight instead of fighting and... I just can't get myself to like it in any way or form. Luckily, the game offers other modes of fun.
Why do bad threads happen to good people?
|
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
161
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 16:09:06 -
[76] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote:The idea of playing this game in a non-pvp fashion is learned. We all intend to slaughter our adversaries when we start. Not really. Believe it or not, not everyone plays the sandbox the same way. Mobadder Thworst wrote:No wonder getting exposed to pvp early retains people. Sure, if you look at people that join the game wanting to PvP staying after experiencing PvP. The irony is that EVE's model makes the traiditional PvP embedded the least interesting part of the game. Then you should consider how much time you spend trying to get a fight instead of fighting and... I just can't get myself to like it in any way or form. Luckily, the game offers other modes of fun.
First, I applaud you for a intelligently written and cogent response.
I have no hatred for the PVE side of the game. It's necessary and I want the content to be of the highest quality possible.
My concern is that I think Eve is losing its core competence( and a substantial portion of what differentiates it), which I think is non-linear pvp.
Lots of games offer linear pvp, but Eve had really special content in that you could play a bad guy... Or fight bad guys who were people.
If Eve loses what makes it different, it will find competition with other MMOs increasingly difficult over the coming years. |
Solitary Pal
The Filthy Few Break-A-Wish Foundation
52
|
Posted - 2015.03.27 16:25:06 -
[77] - Quote
Just dec Marmite and some of the other big merc groups who like to camp hubs and pipes, they're mostly bad and die pretty easily. You also get credit it for not just "killing noob ships and mission runners/miners". Fun to be had by all.
I have a monocle therefore my opinion matters more than yours.
|
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
897
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 03:05:04 -
[78] - Quote
Solitary Pal wrote:Just dec Marmite and some of the other big merc groups who like to camp hubs and pipes, they're mostly bad and die pretty easily. You also get credit it for not just "killing noob ships and mission runners/miners". Fun to be had by all.
You don't even have to dec them all. Create an alt corp. Wardec it. Make the cost of helping low. They will all pile on. Profit.
OR
Just participate in one of the many ad nauseum marmite/code threads. Be a jerk. Sting their egos enough and they will dec you.
Option 2 is probably better. You can make the dec mutual so that they can't get out of it once you start making thier kb look bad. Of course the onus is upon you to make their kb look bad, so it's not a totally free ride. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
167
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 03:57:52 -
[79] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:I've been playing on and off since '09. I wanted to take a moment to reflect on what I see as an erosion taking place in the game.
I did loads of PVE my first year or two. I mined in everything but a mining ship, ran missions up to level 4, lived in a WH, mastered scanning back when it was confusing(did all the exploration sites). I tried every bit of PVE content this game offered.
The whole while, I was in corporations dodging war declarations and trying to keep corps together. Every time I mined, flippers posed a risk. Every time I undocked, someone was baiting. If I smacked in local, I increased the chances of getting a war dec.
Even doing PVE, I could see the people doing interesting things. There was risk everywhere and it felt real.
At about two years, I was sick of shooting red crosses. I was still doing some exploration, but mostly just for cash. Even the social element of the game seemed boring to me because it revolved around the same dull activities. (Missions are like playing checkers against an opponent who makes the exact same moves each time.)
That is when I decided to try to kill some of the evil can flippers I had hated all that time. And I lost ships. And I had fun.
I had sweaty palms, a high heart rate, and no idea what I was doing. That was 500 kills ago now, but I still feel it every time I fight. I think the pvp aspect of this game is the best I have encountered.
4 years later, I still want to experience that high.
My first war dec was against a mining corp. We killed loads of them. Then they hired some tiny merc corp to attack us. But before the merc could dec us, we started giving the miners some pointers and made friends. Then the miners declared war on the mercs they had paid to attack us in order to help us out. I have no idea what the mercs thought. It was absolute numbnuttery, but I loved it.
My problem is this. I think PVE content in this game has a short life span. I can hardly think of a PVE based game that anyone plays for more than 2 years. However, when I look at empire space now that is the only content that is growing. Everything else is nearly gone.
The changes to crime watch have nearly eliminated pvp in the section of space where the vast majority of the players live. Nobody is facing threat and nobody is pvping. I think this is crazy. It's not Eve.
It's extremely hard to find a pick-up fight now. There are no war fleets in local., no funny smack talk, no canners, no baiters, and I'm seeing carebear corps who haven't had war secs.
I used to fly around in a shield rep osprey to get fights. I would find a fight and rep both sides while smacking in local about peace and brotherhood. Once one side would shoot, I'd change into something else and get a kill. I always wanted to kill both sides, but never pulled it off.
The only pvp I see left in high sec is suicide ganks which isn't worth my $15 a month.
My question is this: 1) as you force the high sec portion of eve (the majority)down the road of PVE... How long do you expect to keep these players? How long can someone legitimately play PVE in this game? Are these all 2 year players?
I think you are trading guys like me who would still be playing 6 years later for guys who want a PVE experience and are just looking to amass some isk and ships before the move on to another game.
What game will I be playing by the time you bring pvp back? I've been looking desperately to replace Eve for a while. The replacement isn't here yet, but it's coming.
Please give back the old crime watch mechanics and cheap war decs.
Go to FW space. Fit a few dozen frigates, destroyers, and tech 1 cruisers. Profit.
No, you won't get to shoot mining and mission ships in billion ISK blingboats, but you will not lack for fights.
|
Malthraz
Malthraz.
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 05:59:25 -
[80] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote: Light Adama was about shooting null clowns. That was the corp we used in the Orphanage. I can link info in the Orphanage is you're not familiar. When I joined us up, we were promised a minimum of 10 war decs a week against the largest null alliances.
We quit when the orphanage got too large because it got too easy.
I recall that Orphanage war deced 0.0 corps and expected the 0.0 corps to bring the fight to them, but generally just ganked idiots that did not pay attention and played station games. I am not saying this is good PvP or bad PvP.
My corp stayed out of high sec when Orphanage war deced us because it was boring. You fought when you knew you would win otherwise you stayed docked. You may as well have been NPCs. That is the same reason we did not often fight Outbreak when they lived in our station in Syndicate, and I will freely admit that they are better PvPers than I am.
Perhaps the point I want to make is that if you are taking enjoyment out of the game for other people purely for your own enjoyment I think you are doing a disservice to the game. Some people do not seem to get this. Now PvP in high sec can add enjoyment for both parties. I remember getting killed in low sec in my first week of Eve, and this made me enjoy Eve more. Because I knew there was a sense of danger and consequences for decisions.
For this reason I think high sec should still involve risk, but I just think that most people are not in high sec to engage in PvP. They are there to reduce the impact that others can have on their game play. Not everyone feels like interacting with Eve asshats all of the time. I think that high sec is fairly safe is a good thing. If a lot of people that enjoy PvP have moved out of high because there are a richer source of targets elsewhere, I think this is a good thing.
Eve does have quite a few problems, but a good proportion of those problems are because people dislike losing way more than they like winning. |
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Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1203
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 09:21:13 -
[81] - Quote
Fixed that for you
Malthraz wrote: I recall that Orphanage war deced 0.0 corps and ganked idiots. I quite jelly about this kind of fun filled action because null is boring blobland where such fun is impossible.
My corp stayed out of high sec when Orphanage war deced us because it was scary. You fought. We may as well have been NPCs. That is the same reason we never fight anyone else. I will freely admit that hisec pvpers are better PvPers than I am.
Some more bs to say people like to win but malhraz should win more.
D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
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Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
new order logistics CODE.
89
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 09:30:22 -
[82] - Quote
I've got a feeling (and a number of forum posts here only reaffirm it) that the inhabitants of other regions in EVE tend to look down on all highsec dwellers, both carebears and those who bother them. It seems that it's become a conventional wisdom that it's lowsec, null, and W-space that are are the places where one can find real content and those fabled "goodfites" everyone is talking about. As for highsec (except for RvB, arguably), there's nothing but griefers, merc slapfights, and cheap drama there, so anyone who's looking for real PvP should immediately leave highsec.
The problem with this attitude is that it reflects the reality only partially, if at all. In fact, highsec has become, by far, the only place where there's a real distinction between the "good guys" and the "bad guys". I believe, this has been caused by two main factors:
1. The rest of the inhabited space is no man's land where, like in DayZ, every stranger is automatically perceived as an enemy who wants to shoot you in the face just for the fun of it. As i like to say, there are no "good guys" in lowsec, and there are no "bad guys" in nullsec. 2. The absence of supreme (and omnipotent) law enforcement elements makes "criminal activity" in low and null devoid of its original meaning and removes the factor of consequences for "criminals".
Examples? Sure, there are plenty. Let's say, you've tackled an expensive ship in a PvP region and are offering to let it go for a ransom. The victim has transferred the money to you, but you are still free to blow him up anyway for the sake of the loot and tears. The only repercussion you can expect is a sec status drop if you've done it in lowsec. Otherwise, you have zero to no incentive to let the victim go. That's why lowsec piracy is dead: no one in their sound mind will pay ransoms to those who've tackled them.
Now, let's imagine that I'm bumping a freighter in highsec. I convo the pilot and give him a choice: pay a ransom or get ganked. The victim calculates his risks and pays me a handsome sum of money. And now I have a real choice before me, and to let the freighter go is, surprisingly, the easy option here. If I want to gank him, I need to have a stash of ganking gear nearby (which costs a lot of money) and a company of friends available for a fleet. I have to continually bump the target to prevent him from warping off and have an aggressor close at hand in case he logs off. Plus, there's a pretty high chance that a company of anti-gankers will warp in to provide logi support to the freighter or even gank my bumping Mach! If I don't have the necessary manpower, I can still hyperdunk him (provided that I have the gear, of course), but this venture is even more dangerous.
This is the main problem of the entire dispute here. Highsec provides the kind of game mechanics and meta which are simply not present in the rest of the universe. The criminals here are offered real choices with real risks, consequences, and rewards. To tell a highsec hooligan to fit a bunch of cheap T1 frigates and destroyers and go have some PvP in low would be the same thing as telling him to go play Counter-Strike or Call of Duty: sure, it's a nice, action-packed kind of gameplay, but with hardly any financial or social consequences. |
Malthraz
Malthraz.
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 09:40:01 -
[83] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Fixed that for you Malthraz wrote: I recall that Orphanage war deced 0.0 corps and ganked idiots. I quite jelly about this kind of fun filled action because null is boring blobland where such fun is impossible.
My corp stayed out of high sec when Orphanage war deced us because it was scary. You fought. We may as well have been NPCs. That is the same reason we never fight anyone else. I will freely admit that hisec pvpers are better PvPers than I am.
Some more bs to say people like to win but malhraz should win more.
D.
Thanks for fixing that for me Danalee. This is exactly what I wanted to say, but just could not bring myself to type it. |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1216
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 09:41:24 -
[84] - Quote
Oh, c'mon now.
Hunting FW plex runners is great sport.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
|
Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1203
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 10:29:28 -
[85] - Quote
Malthraz wrote:Thanks for fixing that for me Danalee. This is exactly what I wanted to say, but just could not bring myself to type it.
Damn you for not being mad and thus not having your feelings hurt and thus not coming after me to get revenge! I must say, this response was quite unexpected but I do applaud it. Thanks for putting a smile on my face.
D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
|
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
168
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 11:28:39 -
[86] - Quote
Malthraz wrote:Danalee wrote:Fixed that for you Malthraz wrote: I recall that Orphanage war deced 0.0 corps and ganked idiots. I quite jelly about this kind of fun filled action because null is boring blobland where such fun is impossible.
My corp stayed out of high sec when Orphanage war deced us because it was scary. You fought. We may as well have been NPCs. That is the same reason we never fight anyone else. I will freely admit that hisec pvpers are better PvPers than I am.
Some more bs to say people like to win but malhraz should win more.
D. Thanks for fixing that for me Danalee. This is exactly what I wanted to say, but just could not bring myself to type it.
Autocorrect gets me all the time too |
Mobadder Thworst
Covert Operations The Volition Cult
168
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 11:52:02 -
[87] - Quote
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:I've got a feeling (and a number of forum posts here only reaffirm it) that the inhabitants of other regions in EVE tend to look down on all highsec dwellers, both carebears and those who bother them. It seems that it's become a conventional wisdom that it's lowsec, null, and W-space that are are the places where one can find real content and those fabled "goodfites" everyone is talking about. As for highsec (except for RvB, arguably), there's nothing but griefers, merc slapfights, and cheap drama there, so anyone who's looking for real PvP should immediately leave highsec.
The problem with this attitude is that it reflects the reality only partially, if at all. In fact, highsec has become, by far, the only place where there's a real distinction between the "good guys" and the "bad guys". I believe, this has been caused by two main factors:
1. The rest of the inhabited space is no man's land where, like in DayZ, every stranger is automatically perceived as an enemy who wants to shoot you in the face just for the fun of it. As i like to say, there are no "good guys" in lowsec, and there are no "bad guys" in nullsec. 2. The absence of supreme (and omnipotent) law enforcement elements makes "criminal activity" in low and null devoid of its original meaning and removes the factor of consequences for "criminals".
Examples? Sure, there are plenty. Let's say, you've tackled an expensive ship in a PvP region and are offering to let it go for a ransom. The victim has transferred the money to you, but you are still free to blow him up anyway for the sake of the loot and tears. The only repercussion you can expect is a sec status drop if you've done it in lowsec. Otherwise, you have zero to no incentive to let the victim go. That's why lowsec piracy is dead: no one in their sound mind will pay ransoms to those who've tackled them.
Now, let's imagine that I'm bumping a freighter in highsec. I convo the pilot and give him a choice: pay a ransom or get ganked. The victim calculates his risks and pays me a handsome sum of money. And now I have a real choice before me, and to let the freighter go is, surprisingly, the easy option here. If I want to gank him, I need to have a stash of ganking gear nearby (which costs a lot of money) and a company of friends available for a fleet. I have to continually bump the target to prevent him from warping off and have an aggressor close at hand in case he logs off. Plus, there's a pretty high chance that a company of anti-gankers will warp in to provide logi support to the freighter or even gank my bumping Mach! If I don't have the necessary manpower, I can still hyperdunk him (provided that I have the gear, of course), but this venture is even more dangerous.
This is the main problem of the entire dispute here. Highsec provides the kind of game mechanics and meta which are simply not present in the rest of the universe. The criminals here are offered real choices with real risks, consequences, and rewards. To tell a highsec hooligan to fit a bunch of cheap T1 frigates and destroyers and go have some PvP in low would be the same thing as telling him to go play Counter-Strike or Call of Duty: sure, it's a nice, action-packed kind of gameplay, but with hardly any financial or social consequences.
Well said.
Nobody hates null enemies or low pirates, largely because they pose no risk unless you choose to allow them to do so.
It is the high sec pvper who cannot be easily controlled and who terrorized the 70% of Eve that lives in high sec.
High sec players have no other predator or adversary, though... |
Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
26
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 12:15:58 -
[88] - Quote
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:This is the main problem of the entire dispute here. Highsec provides the kind of game mechanics and meta which are simply not present in the rest of the universe. The criminals here are offered real choices with real risks, consequences, and rewards. To tell a highsec hooligan to fit a bunch of cheap T1 frigates and destroyers and go have some PvP in low would be the same thing as telling him to go play Counter-Strike or Call of Duty: sure, it's a nice, action-packed kind of gameplay, but with hardly any financial or social consequences.
Tempted to log into all of my accounts so I can like this more than once. |
Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
26
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 12:23:15 -
[89] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:High sec players have no other predator or adversary, though...
There are different kinds of adversaries for different kinds of players. And why would players living in "high security space" need more than a bunch of suicide gankers popping them with relatively no isk or other risk (especially if they are doing it with alts) to keep them on their toes anyways? |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1465
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 12:23:41 -
[90] - Quote
I always get a sad when someone tells me to go to null or low if I want to pvp. I grew up in high sec. I live there. I kill there. I die there. I don't see how pvp in any one sector of space is any more or less valid than another. They just are different with different nuances attached. Sour grapes seems to be a recurring thing. Were I to suicide gank, people would berate me for attacking defenseless haulers and miners. Mission flipping, I'm a bad person because I took my pvp frigate against their pve battleship and that's not FAIR. If I go to null then I'm a blobber or F1 monkey. And so on and so forth. So long as someone is exploding what is the real problem? Blood makes the grass grow.
I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
|
|
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
new order logistics CODE.
94
|
Posted - 2015.03.28 13:03:26 -
[91] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:I always get a sad when someone tells me to go to null or low if I want to pvp. I grew up in high sec. I live there. I kill there. I die there. I don't see how pvp in any one sector of space is any more or less valid than another. They just are different with different nuances attached. Sour grapes seems to be a recurring thing. Were I to suicide gank, people would berate me for attacking defenseless haulers and miners. Mission flipping, I'm a bad person because I took my pvp frigate against their pve battleship and that's not FAIR. If I go to null then I'm a blobber or F1 monkey. And so on and so forth. So long as someone is exploding what is the real problem? Blood makes the grass grow.
This is normal. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
167
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 08:29:26 -
[92] - Quote
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:I've got a feeling (and a number of forum posts here only reaffirm it) that the inhabitants of other regions in EVE tend to look down on all highsec dwellers, both carebears and those who bother them. It seems that it's become a conventional wisdom that it's lowsec, null, and W-space that are are the places where one can find real content and those fabled "goodfites" everyone is talking about. As for highsec (except for RvB, arguably), there's nothing but griefers, merc slapfights, and cheap drama there, so anyone who's looking for real PvP should immediately leave highsec. .
Very true. I wish I had stopped reading here so I wasn't bothered with drivel about how challenging it is to run a disposable ganking alt. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
167
|
Posted - 2015.03.29 08:43:17 -
[93] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:I always get a sad when someone tells me to go to null or low if I want to pvp. I grew up in high sec. I live there. I kill there. I die there. I don't see how pvp in any one sector of space is any more or less valid than another. They just are different with different nuances attached. Sour grapes seems to be a recurring thing. Were I to suicide gank, people would berate me for attacking defenseless haulers and miners. Mission flipping, I'm a bad person because I took my pvp frigate against their pve battleship and that's not FAIR. If I go to null then I'm a blobber or F1 monkey. And so on and so forth. So long as someone is exploding what is the real problem? Blood makes the grass grow.
It comes down to what you want to get out of the game. I derive no satisfaction from getting kills with a blob or gatecamping. It can be funny, but it's not really satisfying. There's no skill involved.
Frankly, 99% of the skill involved in mission baiting, is patience. You have to be willing to spend a significant bit of time and effort to get someone to aggress. Once they do, they're just dead in almost every case. I do have more respect for someone that does it solo because there is at least a minimal risk with a 50M ISK ship on the line. As opposed to playing the game of alts to reduce your effective risk to zero.
Ganking on the other hand, is just a math problem. You use a dedicated character for it so going -10 provides no consequence at all. 2 weeks to train a basic cat pilot, do math, drop out of warp on afktard, press f1. Nothing to it.
Doesn't compare to the glory of honorable frigate warfare, blasters at high noon against an opponent of equal or greater calibre. It's not too late for you to find redemption in the cleansing fires of Black Rise. |
Dsparil
Einstein-Rosen Frontier Holdings Hell's Pirates
10
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 02:43:10 -
[94] - Quote
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote: Lotsa very relevant ****...
You sir nailed it pretty good. That's exactly how I feel. There is no truly safe place in this game. PERIOD. The risk factory is what brings the content. |
Dsparil
Einstein-Rosen Frontier Holdings Hell's Pirates
10
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 02:44:00 -
[95] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:I've got a feeling (and a number of forum posts here only reaffirm it) that the inhabitants of other regions in EVE tend to look down on all highsec dwellers, both carebears and those who bother them. It seems that it's become a conventional wisdom that it's lowsec, null, and W-space that are are the places where one can find real content and those fabled "goodfites" everyone is talking about. As for highsec (except for RvB, arguably), there's nothing but griefers, merc slapfights, and cheap drama there, so anyone who's looking for real PvP should immediately leave highsec. . Very true. I wish I had stopped reading here so I wasn't bothered with drivel about how challenging it is to run a disposable ganking alt.
oh you poor child, are those tears I'm seeing? |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
167
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 04:15:48 -
[96] - Quote
Dsparil wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:I've got a feeling (and a number of forum posts here only reaffirm it) that the inhabitants of other regions in EVE tend to look down on all highsec dwellers, both carebears and those who bother them. It seems that it's become a conventional wisdom that it's lowsec, null, and W-space that are are the places where one can find real content and those fabled "goodfites" everyone is talking about. As for highsec (except for RvB, arguably), there's nothing but griefers, merc slapfights, and cheap drama there, so anyone who's looking for real PvP should immediately leave highsec. . Very true. I wish I had stopped reading here so I wasn't bothered with drivel about how challenging it is to run a disposable ganking alt. oh you poor child, are those tears I'm seeing?
Nah mate. Just perfectly formed droplets of pure truth.
|
Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1207
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 08:13:35 -
[97] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:I always get a sad when someone tells me to go to null or low if I want to pvp. I grew up in high sec. I live there. I kill there. I die there. I don't see how pvp in any one sector of space is any more or less valid than another. They just are different with different nuances attached. Sour grapes seems to be a recurring thing. Were I to suicide gank, people would berate me for attacking defenseless haulers and miners. Mission flipping, I'm a bad person because I took my pvp frigate against their pve battleship and that's not FAIR. If I go to null then I'm a blobber or F1 monkey. And so on and so forth. So long as someone is exploding what is the real problem? Blood makes the grass grow. It comes down to what you want to get out of the game. .
Very true. I wish I had stopped reading here so I wasn't bothered with drivel about how challenging it is to fly a frigate or something.
droplets of pure truth, how droll... If it looks and tastes like tears, hmmm... salty.
D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
|
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
168
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 09:01:38 -
[98] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:I always get a sad when someone tells me to go to null or low if I want to pvp. I grew up in high sec. I live there. I kill there. I die there. I don't see how pvp in any one sector of space is any more or less valid than another. They just are different with different nuances attached. Sour grapes seems to be a recurring thing. Were I to suicide gank, people would berate me for attacking defenseless haulers and miners. Mission flipping, I'm a bad person because I took my pvp frigate against their pve battleship and that's not FAIR. If I go to null then I'm a blobber or F1 monkey. And so on and so forth. So long as someone is exploding what is the real problem? Blood makes the grass grow. It comes down to what you want to get out of the game. . Very true. I wish I had stopped reading here so I wasn't bothered with drivel about how challenging it is to fly a frigate or something. droplets of pure truth, how droll... If it looks and tastes like tears, hmmm... salty. D.
I would love to see you try and solo in an unlinked frigate in FW space. It's harder than sitting on the 4-4 undock with a dozen of your buddies and neutral logi in station, for damn sure.
How is 4-4 tonight anyway? Any good scams? Or are you banished to Amarr?
|
Tear Jar
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
339
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 10:10:48 -
[99] - Quote
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:I've got a feeling (and a number of forum posts here only reaffirm it) that the inhabitants of other regions in EVE tend to look down on all highsec dwellers, both carebears and those who bother them. It seems that it's become a conventional wisdom that it's lowsec, null, and W-space that are are the places where one can find real content and those fabled "goodfites" everyone is talking about. As for highsec (except for RvB, arguably), there's nothing but griefers, merc slapfights, and cheap drama there, so anyone who's looking for real PvP should immediately leave highsec.
The problem with this attitude is that it reflects the reality only partially, if at all. In fact, highsec has become, by far, the only place where there's a real distinction between the "good guys" and the "bad guys". I believe, this has been caused by two main factors:
1. The rest of the inhabited space is no man's land where, like in DayZ, every stranger is automatically perceived as an enemy who wants to shoot you in the face just for the fun of it. As i like to say, there are no "good guys" in lowsec, and there are no "bad guys" in nullsec. 2. The absence of supreme (and omnipotent) law enforcement elements makes "criminal activity" in low and null devoid of its original meaning and removes the factor of consequences for "criminals".
Examples? Sure, there are plenty. Let's say, you've tackled an expensive ship in a PvP region and are offering to let it go for a ransom. The victim has transferred the money to you, but you are still free to blow him up anyway for the sake of the loot and tears. The only repercussion you can expect is a sec status drop if you've done it in lowsec. Otherwise, you have zero to no incentive to let the victim go. That's why lowsec piracy is dead: no one in their sound mind will pay ransoms to those who've tackled them.
Now, let's imagine that I'm bumping a freighter in highsec. I convo the pilot and give him a choice: pay a ransom or get ganked. The victim calculates his risks and pays me a handsome sum of money. And now I have a real choice before me, and to let the freighter go is, surprisingly, the easy option here. If I want to gank him, I need to have a stash of ganking gear nearby (which costs a lot of money) and a company of friends available for a fleet. I have to continually bump the target to prevent him from warping off and have an aggressor close at hand in case he logs off. Plus, there's a pretty high chance that a company of anti-gankers will warp in to provide logi support to the freighter or even gank my bumping Mach! If I don't have the necessary manpower, I can still hyperdunk him (provided that I have the gear, of course), but this venture is even more dangerous.
This is the main problem of the entire dispute here. Highsec provides the kind of game mechanics and meta which are simply not present in the rest of the universe. The criminals here are offered real choices with real risks, consequences, and rewards. To tell a highsec hooligan to fit a bunch of cheap T1 frigates and destroyers and go have some PvP in low would be the same thing as telling him to go play Counter-Strike or Call of Duty: sure, it's a nice, action-packed kind of gameplay, but with hardly any financial or social consequences.
Ganking is attractive because it lets players actually make a difference. Highsec is a ptarget rich environment and I have noticed a big change in behavior after ganking a new area for a few weeks.
I think this is the biggest motivation for telling us to go to low/null as well. If all the gankers go to null, then the miners can go back to afk mining in yield fit ships.
|
Danalee
Somalian Coast Guard Authority The Marmite Collective
1207
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 11:15:25 -
[100] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Danalee wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:I always get a sad when someone tells me to go to null or low if I want to pvp. I grew up in high sec. I live there. I kill there. I die there. I don't see how pvp in any one sector of space is any more or less valid than another. They just are different with different nuances attached. Sour grapes seems to be a recurring thing. Were I to suicide gank, people would berate me for attacking defenseless haulers and miners. Mission flipping, I'm a bad person because I took my pvp frigate against their pve battleship and that's not FAIR. If I go to null then I'm a blobber or F1 monkey. And so on and so forth. So long as someone is exploding what is the real problem? Blood makes the grass grow. It comes down to what you want to get out of the game. . Very true. I wish I had stopped reading here so I wasn't bothered with drivel about how challenging it is to fly a frigate or something. droplets of pure truth, how droll... If it looks and tastes like tears, hmmm... salty. I would love to see you try and solo in an unlinked frigate in FW space. It's harder than sitting on the 4-4 undock with a dozen of your buddies and neutral logi in station, for damn sure. How is 4-4 tonight anyway? Any good scams? Or are you banished to Amarr? And I mean that in the nicest way possible. I hope a wartarget in a pve fit blingboat is lumbering towards your trade hub even now.
Just because you are bad at something doesn't make it hard. Quite the contrary really. And I wouldn't know how Jita looks, I'm not a one trick pony - I might add as opposed to you but that's a given- Danalee has been around the block baby.
D.
STOP OPPRESSING MEEEEEEE
|
|
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
906
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 15:01:27 -
[101] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Capt Sephiroth wrote:But fozzie talked about it in the interview :( He sure did. I am hopeful that I simply missed it...
Black legion. ?? I hope you got hacked, someone deleted all your assets and signed you up with them just to make you look bad. It's the only happy scenario I can come up with.
Leto.... What have you done??
|
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1050
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 18:20:50 -
[102] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:I always get a sad when someone tells me to go to null or low if I want to pvp. I grew up in high sec. I live there. I kill there. I die there. I don't see how pvp in any one sector of space is any more or less valid than another. They just are different with different nuances attached. Sour grapes seems to be a recurring thing. Were I to suicide gank, people would berate me for attacking defenseless haulers and miners. Mission flipping, I'm a bad person because I took my pvp frigate against their pve battleship and that's not FAIR. If I go to null then I'm a blobber or F1 monkey. And so on and so forth. So long as someone is exploding what is the real problem? Blood makes the grass grow.
Don't forget the stereotype that low sec pirates are worth less than the scum on your boot. And FW guys only PVP to make money. Everyone has things to say about groups that don't do what THEY want to do. There's content in all areas of space, anyone who doesn't see that hasn't looked hard enough. And there's a big difference between not looking, and having looked and not found what they were looking for. |
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
1050
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 18:24:44 -
[103] - Quote
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:*Words of Wisdom*
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
887
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 23:14:48 -
[104] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:I've got a feeling (and a number of forum posts here only reaffirm it) that the inhabitants of other regions in EVE tend to look down on all highsec dwellers, both carebears and those who bother them. It seems that it's become a conventional wisdom that it's lowsec, null, and W-space that are are the places where one can find real content and those fabled "goodfites" everyone is talking about. As for highsec (except for RvB, arguably), there's nothing but griefers, merc slapfights, and cheap drama there, so anyone who's looking for real PvP should immediately leave highsec. . Very true. I wish I had stopped reading here so I wasn't bothered with drivel about how challenging it is to run a disposable ganking alt. Ganking alts are the only non disposable alts because it is not allowed to biomass a char with negative sec status. And why should someone biomass his ganking toon? I mean i'm a ganker, i'm -10 and I am totaly happy with that, because it is fun to play eve that way. I mean when I look at your killboard, THAT is a reason for biomassing his toon.
the Code ALWAYS wins
|
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Heiian Conglomerate
1405
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 02:11:50 -
[105] - Quote
The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:
OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.
https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
565
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 04:32:00 -
[106] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:
OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.
+1 |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4933
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 04:55:58 -
[107] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:
OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.
I'd rather live in lowsec than high, but lowsec is too empty. Something to do with 'optimal' (i.e. L4 blitzing in marauders, or incursions in shiny boats) highsec PVE being higher reward and lower risk than 'optimal' (i.e. L4 blitzing in MWD/cloak equipped HACs or T3s, or incursions in cheapfit tech 1 hulls) lowsec PVE.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
|
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Heiian Conglomerate
1405
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 05:32:09 -
[108] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:
OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.
I'd rather live in lowsec than high, but lowsec is too empty. Something to do with 'optimal' (i.e. L4 blitzing in marauders, or incursions in shiny boats) highsec PVE being higher reward and lower risk than 'optimal' (i.e. L4 blitzing in MWD/cloak equipped HACs or T3s, or incursions in cheapfit tech 1 hulls) lowsec PVE.
CODE have a different goal to what the OP is wanting - You guys are usually happy enforcing the CODE and don't pretend to want PvP.
(Loyal would occasionally leeroy a few ships into us in Rakapas when he wanted proper PvP after a hard day of enforcing the CODE)
The OP is basically saying he wants PvP content to happen via PvE. All he has to do is run sites in Low Sec and he will have his wish.
Oh yeah.... Hope your BDay night out was fun after you left the Melb meet up.
https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4935
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 06:42:03 -
[109] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:
OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.
I'd rather live in lowsec than high, but lowsec is too empty. Something to do with 'optimal' (i.e. L4 blitzing in marauders, or incursions in shiny boats) highsec PVE being higher reward and lower risk than 'optimal' (i.e. L4 blitzing in MWD/cloak equipped HACs or T3s, or incursions in cheapfit tech 1 hulls) lowsec PVE. CODE have a different goal to what the OP is wanting - You guys are usually happy enforcing the CODE and don't pretend to want PvP. (Loyal would occasionally leeroy a few ships into us in Rakapas when he wanted proper PvP after a hard day of enforcing the CODE) The OP is basically saying he wants PvP content to happen via PvE. All he has to do is run sites in Low Sec and he will have his wish. Oh yeah.... Hope your BDay night out was fun after you left the Melb meet up.
We do have a wardeccing wing in CODE., although it's a work in progress. Shooting people that shoot back is definitely part of what we do.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Mobadder Thworst
RainRunners
174
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 15:26:24 -
[110] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:
OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.
This is all a misunderstanding really.
You want to play Eve like counter strike. Pew pew action and camaraderie. I think that's cool.
However, I want to play eve like Grand Theft auto. I want police chases, crime, theft, mayhem, etc...
There are no place or law abiding citizens in low sec, so it's just counter strike. I like counter strike, but I love the depth of GTA.
Does that make me risk averse? Not in my mind.
I bet you will be more right if you are more disrespectful. I'm pretty sure that's how it works. |
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2577
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 15:33:21 -
[111] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Shooting people that shoot back is definitely part of what we do.
Not to mention that everyone *can* shoot back, it's just some prefer to do so by crying on the forum.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
A recent survey of applicants to CODE. corporations showed that 100% accepted James 315 as their saviour. You can't argue with facts.
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Mobadder Thworst
RainRunners
177
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 23:21:36 -
[112] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:
OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.
+1
Veers, Just try it. Just let me teach you, you don't even have to fight anyone.
Think of the good you could do... Mo |
Kaely Tanniss
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
312
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 01:07:49 -
[113] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:
OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.
+1 Veers, Just try it. Just let me teach you, you don't even have to fight anyone. Think of the good you could do... Mo
As much as it would be good for him Mo, I'm afraid you are wasting your breath. He is too set in his mentality to see beyond what he believes. It's a shame really. Once he saw the light and all that could be if he just opened that door...he would find a whole new world of understanding of what Eve is all about. He'd probably be good at it too...but I guess we, or he, will never know.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
566
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 03:18:38 -
[114] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Veers, Just try it. Just let me teach you, you don't even have to fight anyone.
Think of the good you could do... Mo
If I wanted to shoot people, I'd go to nullsec. |
Mobadder Thworst
RainRunners
180
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 03:52:36 -
[115] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Veers, Just try it. Just let me teach you, you don't even have to fight anyone.
Think of the good you could do... Mo
If I wanted to shoot people, I'd go to nullsec.
Veers, I'm not offering to help you shoot people... But I am offering you my time. I don't understand what about that makes you angry.
I'm offering to teach you how to fight well. Even if it only comes into play when someone is ganking you, it's good to know.
You don't have to shoot anyone to have a firm command of maneuver and damage mechanics. There are tricks I could show you that, to me are valuable for station games... But would be just as effective at helping a miner prevent ganks.
Just so you know, even in the large merc corps, only about 10% of the players have really solid command of what I teach.
In my opinion, that's value. I've fought a little of everything and I can tell you that nobody will be able to push you around once you learn what I teach.
Why it angers you that I'd offer you something like this baffles me.
I'm trying to invest in you... If you looked at my tutorial, it's all about helping other players. Mo |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
566
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 03:55:18 -
[116] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Veers, Just try it. Just let me teach you, you don't even have to fight anyone.
Think of the good you could do... Mo
If I wanted to shoot people, I'd go to nullsec. Veers, I'm not offering to help you shoot people... But I am offering you my time. I don't understand what about that makes you angry. I'm offering to teach you how to fight well. Even if it only comes into play when someone is ganking you, it's good to know. You don't have to shoot anyone to have a firm command of maneuver and damage mechanics. There are tricks I could show you that, to me are valuable for station games... But would be just as effective at helping a miner prevent ganks. Just so you know, even in the large merc corps, only about 10% of the players have really solid command of what I teach. In my opinion, that's value. I've fought a little of everything and I can tell you that nobody will be able to push you around once you learn what I teach. Why it angers you that I'd offer you something like this baffles me. I'm trying to invest in you... If you looked at my tutorial, it's all about helping other players. Mo
Angry? No, just not interested. I'd rather do collaborative PvE than shoot at people. Most of the PvP players end up socially dysfunctiona; like the Goons. |
Mobadder Thworst
RainRunners
180
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 04:25:58 -
[117] - Quote
Ok, well damage and maneuver mechanics are just as applicable in PVE.
Let's collaborate on PVE, like you said. Mo |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1477
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 06:59:33 -
[118] - Quote
Think you may be wasting your time here Mo. I admire your tenacity and compassion in this matter, but I can also understand Veers' hesitancy. Aside from being terribly set in his ways and opinions when it comes to PVP in the game he also has two very rational fears that are standing in the way of any kind of educational and collaborative effort between the two of you.
The first is that over the course of many months he's managed to alienate, annoy and otherwise irritate a vast number of people with his unrelenting avalanche of 'pvp bad!' shiptoasts... and as such he fears, and rightly so that he may become the victim of some kind of high security space hate crime if he ventures out into the deep black with a scary pvp person. While there are few of his fans that could be bothered to get out of their chair to hunt him down, there are many who would likely pay a fair sum of ISK for his frozen corpse.
The second, of course, is that he might actually have fun. I'm pretty sure this is even scarier to him than the first reason. The blow this would deal to his worldview could have dire consequences as he tries to reconcile his beliefs against what he was experiencing. No, I think he's pot committed to his stance. If you have any success with him then good job, you're a more patient man than I.
I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
172
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 07:16:00 -
[119] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:
OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.
This is all a misunderstanding really. You want to play Eve like counter strike. Pew pew action and camaraderie. I think that's cool. However, I want to play eve like Grand Theft auto. I want police chases, crime, theft, mayhem, etc... There are no police or law abiding citizens in low sec, so it's just counter strike. I like counter strike, but I love the depth of GTA. You can't have crime in counter strike because you expect everyone to shoot at you. Does that make me risk averse? Not in my mind. It just makes me someone who likes GTA... Which was popular enough to be called normal. Why be so mean about it?
Highsec pvp is 99% baby seal clubbing. You know it. Counterstrike comparison is bad. Lowsec/nullsec pvp has just as much opportunity for meta gaming and mischief, the exception being that your opponents will be far more savvy on and off the field.
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
172
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 07:23:31 -
[120] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:I've got a feeling (and a number of forum posts here only reaffirm it) that the inhabitants of other regions in EVE tend to look down on all highsec dwellers, both carebears and those who bother them. It seems that it's become a conventional wisdom that it's lowsec, null, and W-space that are are the places where one can find real content and those fabled "goodfites" everyone is talking about. As for highsec (except for RvB, arguably), there's nothing but griefers, merc slapfights, and cheap drama there, so anyone who's looking for real PvP should immediately leave highsec. . Very true. I wish I had stopped reading here so I wasn't bothered with drivel about how challenging it is to run a disposable ganking alt. Ganking alts are the only non disposable alts because it is not allowed to biomass a char with negative sec status. And why should someone biomass his ganking toon? I mean i'm a ganker, i'm -10 and I am totaly happy with that, because it is fun to play eve that way. I mean when I look at your killboard, THAT is a reason for biomassing his toon.
Ganking alts are dedicated to one purpose; you incur no real penalty for being -10 aside from losing a ganking ship and an empty pod. You use other characters/accounts when you want/need to do something else. There is no skill to ganking beyond basic knowledge of crimewatch. It's just a math problem. You don't have to actually fly your ship.
I didn't claim to be a pvp all star, but if I only fought with a blob or 3 logi alts to back me up I could do a pretty good imitation of one. There's got to be more to this game than being 1 of 10 or 100 involved parties for every kill. |
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Mobadder Thworst
RainRunners
188
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 09:15:21 -
[121] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:The TL;DR version of this entire thread is:
OP wants High Sec to be everything Low Sec already is but won't move to Low Sec because low sec targets shoot back.
This is all a misunderstanding really. You want to play Eve like counter strike. Pew pew action and camaraderie. I think that's cool. However, I want to play eve like Grand Theft auto. I want police chases, crime, theft, mayhem, etc... There are no police or law abiding citizens in low sec, so it's just counter strike. I like counter strike, but I love the depth of GTA. You can't have crime in counter strike because you expect everyone to shoot at you. Does that make me risk averse? Not in my mind. It just makes me someone who likes GTA... Which was popular enough to be called normal. Why be so mean about it? Highsec pvp is 99% baby seal clubbing. You know it. Counterstrike comparison is bad. Lowsec/nullsec pvp has just as much opportunity for meta gaming and mischief, the exception being that your opponents will be far more savvy on and off the field.
Oh? How can I crime it up in null or low?
High sec has better mechanics for it.
I don't see how the comparison is bad. |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1579
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 15:24:22 -
[122] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:There are definitely opportunities for PVP in highsec, but they are much worse than they used to be.
For aggressors, there are less ways to initiate a fight with cunning, meaning you need to fall back on the sledgehammer of overwhelming numbers and suicide ganking.
For defenders - there's less ways to set believable traps to catch baiters.
As for leaving high - it's one option, but most of the prey is in high. CODE and their sort limit themselves because of the prey they are looking to "fight'. Low and WH space are full of adversaries that you can actually fight. Don't limit yourself. Get beyond the ganks and go looking for actual fights. There are plenty of folks out there looking to swap paint and ammo (most of them don't fly covetors). I've been playing straight through since my born on date. I started as empire merc prey. Joined said mercs and had an absolute blast for several years (many thanks to Hans and all the other great folks I flew with). Moved to WH space and never looked back. WH space rich somewhat takes the edge off of the jitters that you speak of, but it's still there. Ditch empire and find a nice small gang wh corp and you'll see it's still a great game. Low is empty, and (outside C5 and higher) wormholes are pretty empty too. C5/C6 holes require much more preparation to attack. Prey density is at least twenty times higher in highsec than most of low. Signed - Someone that would live in low, if doing so was truly viable. Low is empty - yeah, nobody mines in low-sec Wormholes are pretty empty too - yeah, i guess there almost is no miners there So yea, you are just limiting yourself here.
But PvP... Lots of it in low or WH if you really want.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
172
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 18:27:52 -
[123] - Quote
You would be surprised at the stupid **** people do in l. sec on weekends. Not too long ago I ran across a newbie corp running a mining operation in a lowsec system - a procurer and covetor with a couple of frigates standing guard. Some of the other locals started sniffing around and we scared them into docking up but one of them came back in a failfit harpy (75mm rails) which I got to solo in my comet, so that was nice.
"No good pvp outside highsec" is an excuse for the lazy. I will reiterate that there are many ways to get nice killmails in lowsec witha bit of effort and creativity. Or you can sit on a highsec-lowsec gate with an instocker and catch billion ISK tengus that think that covops cloak makes them untouchable. And then there's the utterly ridiculous dscan immune recon. |
Mobadder Thworst
RainRunners
188
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 21:25:50 -
[124] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:You would be surprised at the stupid **** people do in l. sec on weekends. Not too long ago I ran across a newbie corp running a mining operation in a lowsec system - a procurer and covetor with a couple of frigates standing guard. Some of the other locals started sniffing around and we scared them into docking up but one of them came back in a failfit harpy (75mm rails) which I got to solo in my comet, so that was nice.
"No good pvp outside highsec" is an excuse for the lazy. I will reiterate that there are many ways to get nice killmails in lowsec witha bit of effort and creativity. Or you can sit on a highsec-lowsec gate with an instocker and catch billion ISK tengus that think that covops cloak makes them untouchable. And then there's the utterly ridiculous dscan immune recon.
While I'm not insulting your playstyle, I'd like to point out that those miners/guard ships were baby seals... I don't look down at your for clubbing them.
In any fight, one of the adversaries is the baby seal. You knew from the time you saw them on d-scan that you would be able to light them up. How that is substantially different than doing it in high sec is beyond me.
However, my desire to pvp in high sec is only part of the reason I wrote the OP.
The real assertion is: I believe the pacification of high sec is bad for the game and will damage the game in time.
Recent studies by CCP corroborate this. I can see it. Others see it too. Here is an email sent to me last night by a guy who read this forum:
"Sir,
As a highsec miner/industrialist, I'd simply like to thank you for what you represent. I miss the old times of piracy and debauchery in empire space just as much as you- Back when mining carried enough risk no matter where you did it that fleets had to stay alert at all times, actual escorts were employed to protect barges, wardecs were commonplace and contributed to actual fights, and only a scant few children got away with AFK mining in expensive T2 ships. Without the threat of loss, mining has turned from a game into a dull chore... And a highly unprofitable one at that. The crime is what made things /interesting/ and worth playing. I don't want the fleet fights of low and nullsec. I want the smart crimes of ye olde days.
Ignore the naysayers in that thread. Keep on scamming/stealing/backstabbing on. Highsec needs more people like you.
Respectfully, Klaus Tylar"
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Samwise Everquest
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps Forsaken Asylum
119
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 21:28:20 -
[125] - Quote
Regrettably, I did not read this thread but I did LOL at your male male patterned baldness.
Blog Currently Under Construction
http://everyoneonthedomi.blogspot.com/
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Mobadder Thworst
RainRunners
188
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 21:30:25 -
[126] - Quote
Samwise Everquest wrote:Regrettably, I did not read this thread but I did LOL at your male male patterned baldness.
I like to consider myself the face of high sec warfare... |
Samwise Everquest
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps Forsaken Asylum
119
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 21:51:43 -
[127] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Samwise Everquest wrote:Regrettably, I did not read this thread but I did LOL at your male male patterned baldness. I like to consider myself the face of high sec warfare...
It does look like you have a fat lip.
So highsec is full of people sucker punching each other?
Blog Currently Under Construction
http://everyoneonthedomi.blogspot.com/
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Tasspool Harp
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2015.04.02 00:06:37 -
[128] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Samwise Everquest wrote:Regrettably, I did not read this thread but I did LOL at your male male patterned baldness. I like to consider myself the face of high sec warfare...
Indeed, a picture tells a thousand words
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
173
|
Posted - 2015.04.02 17:45:25 -
[129] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:[quote=Demerius Xenocratus]You would be surprised at the stupid **** people do in l. sec on weekends. Not too long ago I ran across a newbie corp running a mining operation in a lowsec system - a procurer and covetor with a couple of frigates standing guard. Some of the other locals started sniffing around and we scared them into docking up but one of them came back in a failfit harpy (75mm rails) which I got to solo in my comet, so that was nice.
"No good pvp outside highsec" is an excuse for the lazy. I will reiterate that there are many ways to get nice killmails in lowsec witha bit of effort and creativity. Or you can sit on a highsec-lowsec gate with an instocker and catch billion ISK tengus that think that covops cloak makes them untouchable. And then there's the utterly ridiculous dscan immune recon.
While I'm not insulting your playstyle, I'd like to point out that those miners/guard ships were baby seals... I don't look down at your for clubbing them.
In any fight, one of the adversaries is the baby seal. You knew from the time you saw them on d-scan that you would be able to light them up. How that is substantially different than doing it in high sec is beyond me.
However, my desire to pvp in high sec is only part of the reason I wrote the OP.
The real assertion is: I believe the pacification of high sec is bad for the game and will damage the game in time.
Recent studies by CCP corroborate this. I can see it. Others see it too. Here is an email sent to me last night by a guy who read this forum:
"Sir,
As a highsec miner/industrialist, I'd simply like to thank you for what you represent. I miss the old times of piracy and debauchery in empire space just as much as you- Back when mining carried enough risk no matter where you did it that fleets had to stay alert at all times, actual escorts were employed to protect barges, wardecs were commonplace and contributed to actual fights, and only a scant few children got away with AFK mining in expensive T2 ships. Without the threat of loss, mining has turned from a game into a dull chore... And a highly unprofitable one at that. The crime is what made things /interesting/ and worth playing. I don't want the fleet fights of low and nullsec. I want the smart crimes of ye olde days.
Ignore the naysayers in that thread. Keep on scamming/stealing/backstabbing on. Highsec needs more people like you.
Respectfully, Klaus Tylar"
"Low-security"
The difference is in the name. Not to mention you get a warning when you jump out of highsec that you will be fair game. It's made very clear early on that if you leave highsec people are going to try to kill you, so I have no issues with shooting people who are doing stupid things in the more pvp-friendly areas of the game.
Honestly, the only form of highsec pvp I really have a problem with is the wardec system. Ganking is not an issue unless you are flying/hauling really expensive **** without any thought whatsoever. And suspect baiting requires your target to shoot first. They don't have to pvp if they don't want to - if they choose to engage that's on them.
The wardec system is a joke and would be completely ridiculous without the NPC/roll corp dodges, but still makes it pretty pointless to try and run a casual corp in highsec.
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Saeger1737
Deadly Fingertips Absolute Defiance
1086
|
Posted - 2015.04.02 17:55:51 -
[130] - Quote
Oh reading that was more boring then doing a mission, still waiting on my lp and payment... |
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Vector Symian
0 Fear
608
|
Posted - 2015.04.03 04:12:16 -
[131] - Quote
It is time bros
Highsec must make null regret their interference or they will simply continue
The Wave forms... |
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