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Vireya Broken Saints	Posted - 2006.10.20 00:49:00 - [1] yep whilst bbc were covering a story about us congress they talked about eve! and here is a lovely link to their website... note the eve screenie at the top of the page click here to read
Flambouche	Posted - 2006.10.20 00:53:00 - [2] shame it's such an outdated screenshot - I work for the bbc they should have asked for a better one :)
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.20 00:55:00 - [3] There should be laws against the US Congress tbh. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Xs 142	Posted - 2006.10.20 00:58:00 - [4] Last time I checked we had a lawsystem to protect us... But, gee, guess I'm wrong again.. Anyways, can someone explain how the hell they're going to take out any type of tax on anything as the selling is, by definition, illegal and only sold as "time spent"... And you can't reall tax time, only value and total income. With the banning of accounts that would in that case count as an expense.. An expense which isn't controllable.. Hence they can't tax the farmers either.. Back in topic: Aren't laws made to protect us? Rise and stand against the system people, you are in control. Originally by: Oveur Eternally yours, The other dumbass
Allan Robertson Gallente Trojan industries	Posted - 2006.10.20 01:03:00 - [5] I'm sure they will find a way to tax the hell out of us, they are tax men, they can come for you anywhere, even 3 million years in deep space
Xs 142	Posted - 2006.10.20 01:06:00 - [6] Originally by: Allan Robertson I'm sure they will find a way to tax the hell out of us, they are tax men, they can come for you anywhere, even 3 million years in deep space Sure, except for the fact that there's no value exchange made in any way in this game that isn't illegal, except for gametime cards, and those are already taxed So, let them try.. Second Life, they can tax. Eve/WoW, no way, not without proof of value, and there's no legal type of value to be proven jurisprudence 606 ftw Originally by:* Oveur Eternally yours, The other dumbass
Uglyone Deep Can Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.20 01:07:00 - [7] sure ill pay my taxes in ingame ISK then
Xs 142	Posted - 2006.10.20 01:12:00 - [8] Originally by: Uglyone sure ill pay my taxes in ingame ISK then I'd like to see the law that covers murder and asteroid mining as a taxable income before I give away any ISK tbh Originally by: Oveur Eternally yours, The other dumbass
Greyboi	Posted - 2006.10.20 01:46:00 - [9] this cant happen... they cant tax the value of my entertainment. this would be one way the g'ment takes their "fill my pockets" scheme to far and proves to me that i no longer need to support them. shoot... next up would be to tax my time spent watching movies with product placement... total bs... ~j
Afonso Henriques Minmatar Low Grade Ore The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.10.20 01:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain There should be laws against the US Congress tbh. lol, says that guy tht has a VAT
Terminus adacai Caldari Mintaka Mining Inc	Posted - 2006.10.20 02:33:00 - [11] Edited by: Terminus adacai on 20/10/2006 02:36:12 Originally by: Joshua Foiritain There should be laws against the US Congress tbh. Has served us well for over 230 years. k-thnx I just read the article. CCP's EULA would prevent taxation of isk, as it is the property of CCP and cannot be exchanged for any real life currency. What they need to do is go after the farmers' website owners for back taxes.
Makhan	Posted - 2006.10.20 02:36:00 - [12] You have got to be kidding me, surely as an Icelandic company CCP is not subject to this?
Quin Tal Fort Knox Inc Expeto Libertas Foedus	Posted - 2006.10.20 02:40:00 - [13] Yaaaay Eve! Our politics are the same too, enter someone elses territory and blow em away.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.10.20 04:49:00 - [14] Next time you find that commander at belt in deep 0.0 space and kill him and get 10.000.000,00 bounty, scream in horror when you have to pay REAL 5% tax from that. Enjoy your future in "free world" with "free speech" - because I know I will Unnerf Amarr!Ö "I read somewhere that Kali will be featuring turn-based combat to increase immersion." ¬ Waagaa Ktlehr
Latex Mistress Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.20 04:55:00 - [15] Must be a slow news day... Anybody w/ a shred of common sense sees this for what it is: a way to keep bean-counters working. There's no way to place a RL monetary tax on a non-existant income within a virtual game. LM Latex Mistresss: bringing truth to the truculent one post at a time
Ansuru Starlancer The Phoenix Rising Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.20 05:41:00 - [16] Edited by: Ansuru Starlancer on 20/10/2006 05:42:46 As I said on the other thread on this subject, Eve and other gameworlds should be regarded as sovereign nations; they've got their own government (the developing corporation), laws (the EULA & other policies), populace (us), and currency. The only thing they could lawfully tax is conversion from game currency into US (or any other nation's) currencyùthe equivilant of import/export of goods, which is regularly taxed IRLùand which is illegal in most gameworlds anyway. :p Can't tax smugglers! And that's what ISKsellers are! Dirty smuggling economycrashing pirates (not to be confused with Eve pirates, who are just PvPers with flavor :P)
franny Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.10.20 05:58:00 - [17] we need a common sense test for politicians, BEFORE they can run, and anually once in office they fail, they are out that said, they should tax the EBAY/IGE/whatever companys that sell the isk for rl cash, making isk/gold selling less profitable but NOT the game itself
Terminus adacai Caldari Mintaka Mining Inc	Posted - 2006.10.20 06:36:00 - [18] Originally by: franny we need a common sense test for politicians, BEFORE they can run, and anually once in office they fail, they are out that said, they should tax the EBAY/IGE/whatever companys that sell the isk for rl cash, making isk/gold selling less profitable but NOT the game itself Hear Hear!!
Admai Sket	Posted - 2006.10.20 07:27:00 - [19] LOL - none of us have to worry, since making RL money out of EVE is against the EULA. So none of us can have RL money taxed out of us for this. MY SIG: Linkage Funny thread.
Lienzo	Posted - 2006.10.20 07:57:00 - [20] "Sin taxes" on virtual goods sounds like a strong possibility actually. If it was burdensome enough to private sellers, and annoying enough to people who run Ebay, I'm sure a lot of people would be happy/unhappy about it. I personally think that transaction taxes are always unreasonable compared to net earnings taxes, but that's what you get in any democracy. The only thing they are good for is for prompting people to habitually document their transactions carefully, but that is something that hardly needs more prompting in a first world capitalist system.
EvilNate Caldari Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.20 08:04:00 - [21] I dont live in the US, I'm safe
Arcticblue2 Gallente Nordic Freelancers inc	Posted - 2006.10.20 08:21:00 - [22] Suppose the only thing it can do is to force CCP to enforce their EULA better... Thinking especially about "There are reports that many people in nations such as China earn their entire salary by "gold-farming" in which they play the game solely to get gold which is then sold for real world money." From the article, and I suppose that is the type of things they want to tax.. not my millions of isk I don't spend in my real life. If for example USA force a sort of tax on companies that have american players on for such type like farmers, that can force CCP to enforce banning of isk-farmers if CCP gets the hit. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Yoko Milan Phantom Squad iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 08:39:00 - [23] Well first of all to many of you I would suggest reading the article again. They are only studying the online markets, NOT considering new taxes on them. What I do laugh at though is that even though they say items in these games do have real world value. Which while this is true, it is only so because of people willing to violate EULAs of these various video games. A black market of sorts. I am glad they've anounced this only to be a study. But the last paragraph does bring up area for concern. Quote: The JEC statement said: "Clearly, virtual economies represent an area where technology has outpaced the law. The goal of the forthcoming JEC study is to help lawmakers understand the issues involved and head off any premature attempt to impose a tax on virtual economies." If they do decide to start taxing video online video games, why don't we also start taxing oh say the Columbian Drug Cartels. The only difference I see there is the Cartels make more money and are more likely to put a gun to your head. So heck while we're at it why don't we tax all Black Market dealings. I will say this I am from now on declaring open war on anyone I discover to be working for IRS playing EVE online. I don't care what alliance corp. or region they're in. I suggest everyone else do the same. Cause if America does happen to pass some taxation laws I can promise you many of your contries will do so also. RL "My front door is Gate Camped"
LaCoHa Caldari Deep Space Navy Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.10.20 08:49:00 - [24] Originally by: Afonso Henriques Originally by: Joshua Foiritain There should be laws against the US Congress tbh. lol, says that guy tht has a VAT Classic Honestly though, theyll just end up throwing something equivallent to the "FCC universal service fee" onto our monthly dues. pretty pathetic really. But it $.25 a month gives the collector a hard on, and keeps him out of ingame transactions (which really makes no sense) then I am all for it.
Fark Gallente Soul Collectors	Posted - 2006.10.20 09:07:00 - [25] Edited by: Fark on 20/10/2006 09:11:17 Originally by: Makhan You have got to be kidding me, surely as an Icelandic company CCP is not subject to this? CCP Will not be affected, but the article currently says that Congress is Only interested in online trading of virtual goods, and there will not be tax. Quote: The Joint Economic Committee (JEC) of the US Congress has announced it is investigating the amount of commerce taking place in virtual game worlds. All they say about possible tax is people jumping to conclusions Quote: There is a concern that the IRS (Internal Revenue Service) might step forward with regulations that start taxing transactions that occur within virtual economies," said Mr Saxton. "This, I believe, would be a mistake." Edit: And How can the IRS prove who lives in the USA boundary's and who doesn't, Data Protection Laws will forbid CCP giving out any customers details. - - - - - - - - - Lister: The red, green and blue alert signs are all flashing. What the smeg does that mean? Kryten: Well either we're under attack sir, or we're having a disco.
Hesod Adee	Posted - 2006.10.20 09:33:00 - [26] Originally by: Uglyone sure ill pay my taxes in ingame ISK then Paying in ISK is probably eaiser as it can be automated, then no-one can avoid the taxes. But this would mean that all the ISK goes to one account. Now if we ever found out what character the tax department used to collect the tax, what would we do to them if we ever caught them in space ? ----------------- My door is always open, just don't go in.
LaCoHa Caldari Deep Space Navy Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.10.20 09:36:00 - [27] I think EVE would have the first ever suspension of hostilities, and every corp and alliance would join hands for a week to end this guys eve based life. would be kinda fun.
Night Vigil	Posted - 2006.10.20 09:52:00 - [28] This isn't about Eve (or any other on line game) this is a backlash after the On-Line Gambling compaines had their wings well and trully clipped - They were worth millions before the change now worth nothing inthe US. The problem was that although On-line gambling compaines were making a LOT of money, they were all based in dubious off-shore locations that meant they didn't have to pay tax on their profits, which got the goat of the real world gambling compaines such as those in Vegas! Hence the law change. If the compaines had made any effort to say to the US goverment - okay, suppose we come out of the cold and pay taxes what then? Then I think it would be a different story, but they didn't and now their toys have been permantly locked in the atic. The backlash is that now all forms of online game play are under review. What's the comparison between Eve and On-Line Poker? Well there is none... But you try telling that to a 65 year old senator who uses a computer maybe once a week (if that)... They will investigate, people will get rich investigating, then a report that says nothing can be done will sink without trace so that no one can question all the money that was spent on something so ludicrous... As the news reader on the simpsons once said "Democracy... It just doesn't work" ;)
Taaketa Frist The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.20 09:57:00 - [29] I have funny feeling the majority of people in this thread didn't read the whole artical. It was stated in the artical that they were only interested in games such as Second Life which has a supported framework for converting virtual currency into real world cash. When a player does this in Second Life they are investigating the possibility of condsidering the cash he exchanges as a taxable income. CCP wouldn't be subject to this but due the to the nature of MMOs being as they are America is potentially setting the example of taxable items. IF it happened in Iceland. GTCs you say? CCP would state that GTC sales are a one way transactions a player must buy a GTC in real world cash but his return would be virtual cash which he cannot (At least not sanctioned by CCP) convert that virtual cash into real world cash. It also might be worth to note that the game company would have to cooperate with the tax man. Whilst it would not be they who are responsible for taxing you, it would be their responiblity to make sure your taxing is correct for your ingame to out of game trading. -------------- Dang nabit
Something Random Gallente Crusader Naval Technologies Lmtd	Posted - 2006.10.20 10:38:00 - [30] OK - the fact is they are looking to tax online gamers. Its a study, a study on how they would lawfully go about it. Expect it to happen once they've covered their butts. Ill setup my financial collection office in game... when tax man wants to come he can except isk, and the trade ill make in Egghelende. How could you resist a 'YAAAARRRRR'

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