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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
24004
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Posted - 2015.03.21 14:51:06 -
[1] - Quote
Apparently there's this huge problem of newbies being griefed out of the game.
If you read the NPC corp thread people are equating this 1% ganked statistic to the 90% that drops out of game.
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EVE:Valkyrie pilot unmasked (her name is Ran)
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
24035
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Posted - 2015.03.23 01:27:16 -
[2] - Quote
Since a few of the usual suspects in this thread, including Veers want to live under the illusion that data has to agree with their opinions, let's write down what CCP said:
CCP Rise:
- Raise your hand if you think suicide ganking exists? (most of the audience raises their hands)
- Raise your hand if you think anyone's ever quit EVE because of being suicide ganked? (not sure how many raised their hands)
- Raise your hand if you think NEW players get suicide ganked? (80-90% raises their hands)
- Rephrasing: Raise your hand if you think suicide ganking is a problem for new players? (~50% raises their hands)
- So this is a discussion that comes a lot for us [CCP] internally and you would think we would have a really clear idea, but what we face a lot is having a lot of data and limited ability to analyze it. This discussion comes up in NPE, and [CCP is aware that] the community often raises this question.
- Slide 1 (thanks Tora!). 80,000 users means individual people not accounts that are subscribed (CCP's language later leads me to believe trials were not looked at**). Killers were checked for whether they were killed by CONCORD or other law enforcement agents to determine if the death was due to a gank.
- Slide 2. Note here that wardecs, Limited Engagements, etc. are legal kills (as expected). Interestingly CCP Rise characterizes these fights as ones where the victim chose to be involved. Ganks are 1% of these deaths, where victims were "killed against their will".
- Slide 3. CCP was surprised by these results. Myths: New players are pressured by more advanced players, harassed by them. CCP rise says specifically that people in the ganked group were most likely to stay subscribed, with people in the legally killed group 2nd most likely to stay subscribed. People who don't die at all were most likely to leave the game.
- Slide 4. Everyone should read this slide, seriously.
**CCP Rise's previous data along similar lines looked at subscriber data, not trial data.
Source: EVE Fanfest 2015: Team Pirate Unicorn presentation
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EVE:Valkyrie pilot unmasked (her name is Ran)
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
24036
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Posted - 2015.03.23 01:40:29 -
[3] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:A for effort, Sibyyl. Sadly wasted though. You've been around here long enough to know that the regulars will only cherry pick the bits that validate their pet assumptions and rage. Like fundamentalists the world over, you'll never see an EVE forumvangelist let facts get in the way of a good rant. Mr Epeen 
Don't mind me, I'm a confused miner.
*rubs your shiny head*
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EVE:Valkyrie pilot unmasked (her name is Ran)
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
24052
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Posted - 2015.03.23 04:45:51 -
[4] - Quote
Let's talk about two points people have brought up.
Quote:1. The 15-day window is not long enough to speculate on negative effects ganking may have to player retention.
- We know that 40% of players <30 days are already missioning and mining. Likely the other 50% that quit too also have hit missioning and mining because it constitutes the bulk of NPE activities. These two activities are also 2 of the 3 big targets for ganking (the 3rd being hauling). Also, training into a Venture takes minutes (an easy accomplishment for a <15 day pilot).
- Why do we think the 1% gank kill ratio will change for players >15 days and <3-6 months? It doesn't make sense to me that this statistic would change.
- CCP kicks a player out of Rookie Chat after 30 days. Why would data for >1 month players be useful for this discussion? If these players quit because of ganking, is it possible that they are partially responsible for not reading up on a library of gank mitigation literature on the internet, or for not joining a community like Anti-Ganking and asking some questions?
Quote:2. CCP is only factoring in data filled out by the player when they manually unsubscribe (ie: reason for quitting). This is not enough to make any conclusion, because most players will just quit and not fill in a reason to let CCP know why they quit.
Actually, CCP is factoring in:
- 80,000 individual players (which translates to potentially multiple alts + multiple accounts)
- Whether the player stopped playing (not just unsubscribed)
- Whether there was an illegal or legal PVP on these 80,000 players
- The reason given for unsubscribing
Again, if I am misconstruing something here I hope someone will correct me.
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EVE:Valkyrie pilot unmasked (her name is Ran)
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
24113
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Posted - 2015.03.24 21:31:51 -
[5] - Quote
People will hang onto their preconceived notions for dear life, even when presented the evidence otherwise. I had the same assumptions about "rookie" ganks as well but it is a special kind of delusion to see data and then completely disregard it because it puts your views into question.
The arguments we see now are made with no sense of need to present any supporting data. It's as if someone's personal experience is the final answer to everything. It's dogma by definition.
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EVE:Valkyrie pilot unmasked (her name is Ran)
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
24116
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Posted - 2015.03.24 22:25:51 -
[6] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:Aren't those stats from the same person who said "these stats say Battleships are fine". Only for the reddit community to rip them apart to show something else.........funny thing stats.....specially when you already have an answer in mind and just need to mold the stats to fit.
If you want to discredit Rise by throwing tomatoes, at least take the time to link the context.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2xe2f0/are_battleships_really_irrelevant/
The people on Reddit make a good point that damage dealt, as a statistic on its own, is not a clear indicator of Battleships being the ships of choice for undocking. If you have an actual point to make about Rise's data in this thread, we are all waiting.
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EVE:Valkyrie pilot unmasked (her name is Ran)
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
24116
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Posted - 2015.03.24 23:27:29 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks Jonah. All my previous portrait experiments are linked in my sig. I think red Sibs is second or third row down..
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EVE:Valkyrie pilot unmasked (her name is Ran)
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
24122
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Posted - 2015.03.25 15:07:42 -
[8] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:One argument often thrown around in the community is that new players don't stay in the game because they are griefed out of it.. One of those figures that people are latching onto is the "legal kills" and one scenarios is where newbies are spammed duel requests. *Splat* Then they realise how long they are going to be so feeble and decide it isn't worth dying all the time. There are definitely break points in EVE. The 15 days one with trial accounts if full of a lot of other reasons than ganking. As everyone in this thread has repeatedly said.
New people who PVP are more likely to stay in the game than people who don't PVP. People involved in non-consensual PVP are even more likely to stay in the game.
Which part of that did you not understand?
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EVE:Valkyrie pilot unmasked (her name is Ran)
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