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Sarkos
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Posted - 2003.11.01 23:47:00 -
[1]
Curse Alliance Final Statement regarding the CFS.
The CA announces a cessation of hostilites with the CFS. We know that many of the member corperations have a true desire for a peace and as such wish to present that option to them on a corp by corp basis in the Khanid and JK-FIX regions.
CFS Corporation CEO's are invited to contact Sarkos, Chief CA diplomat, via evemail. Neutrality will be granted to each corp individually as this occurs, and are asked to change their corp tags appropriately. They will acknowledge that no CA member or corp are to be KOS in their home regions. Corps that do not contact us will continue to be KOS.
Neutral parties are reminded that travel into the regions surrounding Curse (bordered by Egbinger and HED-GP) is not advisable, and is at your own risk. Entry into Curse remains prohibited due to the volatile nature of this areas.
As this is a difficult descision for some CFS corps, we will pull our ships out of CFS territory for three days, as a show of faith. This comes into effect on the 2nd of November, after downtime.
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.11.02 00:35:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
Neutrality will be granted to each corp individually as this occurs, and are asked to change their corp tags appropriately.
I'm curious exactly what that means. Does it mean remove CFS entirely or does it mean adding "neutral towards CA"?
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Leyla
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Posted - 2003.11.02 00:47:00 -
[3]
Keep "member of CFS" and also add "neutral to CA" in the description.
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.11.02 01:13:00 -
[4]
Quote:
Keep "member of CFS" and also add "neutral to CA" in the description.
Ok, there has been some confusion about that. People were reading it like they had to remove CFS, which would be harsh. In reality that is not that case. Thanks for clearing that up.
If I put "CA suxorz" can I expect to be podded all the way back to my noob corp? Just kidding 
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Rocket Bob
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Posted - 2003.11.02 01:13:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Rocket Bob on 02/11/2003 01:20:41
Upon first reading, this would seem to be a step in the right directon towards peace between CA and CFS. However, for the CFS members involved, this is at best perplexing and at worst an invitation for CFS member corporations to break ranks and fissure the collective will of the alliance. The reason that this offer by Sarkos seems so confusing and perhaps devicive that literally hours ago, Sarkos and Kai Viqtorr (the chief negotiator for CFS) agreed to bring a peace treaty back to their respective sides for ratification. The treaty is being voted upon as we speak in the CFS Senate. Voting is set to end tomorrow. So far, no nay votes have been registered by CFS senators. 27 senators already approved the treaty. The following is the text of the treaty presently being ratified. As CEO of Novatech and a Senator in CFS, I have already voted to ratify the treaty.
The question is why would CA, represented by Sarkos, spend over a week forging a treaty to be ratified by both sides only to make this announcement immediately afterward? It is confusing and discouraging. Certainly, it is not solid diplomacy.
Here follows the text of the treaty which certianly seems to be on its way to ratification by CFS.
================================================
================================================
Below is the Peace Treaty between the CFS and CA. Once ratified by the Senate and agreed to by the CA Council, it will take effect.
Due to the urgency of this matter, this will be a two (2) day Emergency Voting Bill only. However, by the authority provided by the Negotiation Bill, its effect will not be time limited if accepted.
-----------------
We the free peoples of the Curse Alliance and the Coalition of Free Stars, in an effort to bring a lasting peace between our alliances hereby offer this peace treaty to end the terrible and costly war between us now, and begin a new era of trade and cooperation between our great alliances.
1) No reparations shall be demanded or paid by either side for what has already happened.
2) All existing members of the Curse Alliance will be removed from the CFS KOS list. Any newly reformed known pirate joining the Curse Alliance who is currently on the CFS KOS list, will be given a two week <14 day> probationary period where they must remain clear of any CFS space. Upon successfully achieving this, they shall be removed from the CFS KOS list.
3) A diplomat from both alliances will be assigned to handle and moderate disputes and problems. An alternate will also be chosen. Members are to be approved by both sides.
3A) All evidence will be gathered prior to the meeting so a swift closure can be reached satisfying all involved.
3B) If reparations are warranted, they shall be paid to the offended party without delay, to bring satisfactory closure.
3C) A set channel will be set up for quick and timely resolutions of problems.
3D) If at anytime a stalemate or deadlock is reached in these proceedings, a third party arbitrator approved by both sides will be called in to bring closure to the incident. Both alliances will heed and accept the decision of this agreed upon arbitrator.
3E) Since neither party wishes pirates or griefers, any party found guilty of wilful pirating will be removed from the alliance that they belonged to with proper reparations being awarded to the victim(s).
4) It is the CA's wish that neither Teister nor Edward Preble be involved in any manner of discussion or validity regarding any facet of decisions involving the CA, as it is our opinion they are biased against us and can not be counted on for open minded views and constructive comments. In a similar manner, neither Layla nor Lallente will participate on the CA side of the negotiations with the CFS.
5) HED-GP will remain neutral territory and unclaimed. Both parties retain the right to defend the appropriate jumpgate leading to their own territory.
6) Besides an NAP, no military agreements can be in initiated or maintained with any known enemy of the other. To do so would only support the war efforts of the enemy and strain the relations between the CFS and CA to the point where once again war might result.
7) Upon acceptance of this document, both the CFS and CA will withdraw any forces from each others space. A 72 hour time period will be given for this to occur. Following the withdrawal a 4 day cool-down period will apply, during which neither side may enter the space of the other. After this time, CFS space may only be entered by CA members to travel to and from empire space. After a further 1 week time period, the 0.0 regions of CFS territory, such as JK-FIX will be open to all CA members as well. Any foolhardy person breaking these restrictions or firing weapons during the withdrawal is subject to being hunted with impunity without repercussions.
-- continued --
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Smurf88
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Posted - 2003.11.02 01:13:00 -
[6]
Smurfy tranlations.
"The CA announces a cessation of hostilites with the CFS. We know that many of the member corperations have a true desire for a peace and as such wish to present that option to them on a corp by corp basis in the Khanid and JK-FIX regions."
Means they gonna continue hostilities towards CFS. They just don't want to fight a big fight. And they don't care about the peace treaty. In fact, they close all options for a peace treaty with CFS.
"CFS Corporation CEO's are invited to contact Sarkos, Chief CA diplomat, via evemail. Neutrality will be granted to each corp individually as this occurs, and are asked to change their corp tags appropriately. They will acknowledge that no CA member or corp are to be KOS in their home regions. Corps that do not contact us will continue to be KOS."
Mean sure neutrality. But don't come complaining to the CA if your corp get's shot up by them.
"Neutral parties are reminded that travel into the regions surrounding Curse (bordered by Egbinger and HED-GP) is not advisable, and is at your own risk. Entry into Curse remains prohibited due to the volatile nature of this areas."
Means Travel at your own risc. As is normal in a war zone. Like many regions CA wants to claw into.
"As this is a difficult decision for some CFS corps, we will pull our ships out of CFS territory for three days, as a show of faith. This comes into effect on the 2nd of November, after downtime."
Meaning Don't care about your senate, don't care about CFS just do as you please and pretty please stop working together. Plz be an easy target for future raids.
End of Smurfy tranlations
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Rocket Bob
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Posted - 2003.11.02 01:21:00 -
[7]
-- continuation of peace treaty text --
7A) The CA and CFS both acknowledge a genuine wish for their members to enjoy peace, trade and cooperation and therefore agree that the CA will allow members of CFS into the Curse Region, provided a strict protocol is followed to minimise the risk of friendly fire damage. CA will post a list of executive staff of varying time-zones who will be able to authorise entry into the Curse. CFS pilots must request and obtain approval from someone on this list before entering The Curse Region. While in the Curse Region, if a CFS pilot is notified of a war party roaming the Region, the CFS pilot must make every effort to immediately leave the region, or they accept the risks (and lack of compensation) of becoming inadvertently involved in a fight. The CA also acknowledges that they do not wish neutral mining operations in the 0.0 sectors of CFS space to be interrupted by any war efforts between CA and their enemies. Therefore, should these enemies pursue CA pilots into the 0.0 sectors of CFS space and start camping gates, the CA pilots will make best speed (when safe to do so) to leave these sectors and will not return for 1 week following such an incident. CFS will naturally respond in the usual manner to anyone attempting to gate-camp in its space. If these incidents prove to be a regular occurrence, the access to the 0.0 sectors of CFS space will be reviewed by the committee in discussed in Section 3.
8 ) Both parties will repost their Constitutions reaffirming their stance against piracy and agree to work cooperatively to stamp out piracy. Both parties will acknowledge the other as the holder of the areas they control. These posts will be on the Intergalactic Summit boards of the EVE forums.
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Asimir Kurdugal
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Posted - 2003.11.02 01:28:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Asimir Kurdugal on 02/11/2003 01:29:39
Smurf88,
If you wish to discuss any aspect of the document you are welcome to take a trip to Curse and we'll spell it out for you. That is, if you can muster the courage to bring anything but an alt.
You're invited as well Smurf7, as you are most likely the same person.
________________________________________________
Moving again, comfort of the chase
Now and again, this my saving grace
Dead on the inside, I've got nothing to prove
Keep me alive and give me something to lose
I've been gone so long, but I will come back
I will come back for you |
smurf7
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Posted - 2003.11.02 01:28:00 -
[9]
Oh yeah, I'm so sure CA will just end it's hostilities in the Khanid/JK-FIX regions.
Good luck getting that many corporations from each side to just leave each other alone. CA is just a bunch of spinless babys. Tempests logging off when a little blackbird manages to take them down to almost no armor. Pathetic.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see peace as much as the next guy, but this is the Curse Alliacne we're dealing with here. They're pirates. CFS is the good guys. There will never be peace, especially not a lasting one. |
Enraku Reynolt
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Posted - 2003.11.02 01:46:00 -
[10]
sounds like CA just needs time to reload their weapons
------------------------------------------------
Do not let the world change you.
Change the world
Here's everything I know about war: somebody wins, somebody loses, and nothing is ever the sa |
The Reclaimer
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Posted - 2003.11.02 01:50:00 -
[11]
It is as simple as this: CFS changes leadership on a daily basis. CA recieves threats that CFS member corps will KOS CA no matter what the CFS Senate decides. How can CA deal with these issues other than on an individual basis. All those who throw thrash and conjecture with alts into this thread though be treated as such. The CA affirms its desire for peace with those CFS members that want peace.
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Aillas
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Posted - 2003.11.02 01:53:00 -
[12]
This would appear to be a calculated insult to the negotiators of the alliance and an attempt to divide its member corps.
I very much doubt my corp will have anything to do with approaching CA individually or changing our description. We are CFS members, if a peace treaty is aggreed between CFS and CA then we will honour it. If there is not such a treaty then we wont.
If CA return to FIX and attack our corp members we will defend outselfs as best we can. We will hope that all loyal members of CFS would act to assist us in this since this is the function of an alliance. If the alliance decided to disband that is for it to decide not the head of another alliance.
Why on earth spend two weeks negotiating a peace treaty then release a unilateral statement pre-empting it while it is being voted on? If you have decided you are still at war with us and dont want peace then just say so openly instead of going over the head of the negotiators.
Not really a difficult decision for any corp that is truly still a member of CFS.
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Asimir Kurdugal
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Posted - 2003.11.02 02:04:00 -
[13]
Quote:
If CA return to FIX and attack our corp members we will defend outselfs as best we can.
Does this mean you've given up the offensive?
________________________________________________
Moving again, comfort of the chase
Now and again, this my saving grace
Dead on the inside, I've got nothing to prove
Keep me alive and give me something to lose
I've been gone so long, but I will come back
I will come back for you |
Aillas
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Posted - 2003.11.02 02:12:00 -
[14]
What offensive? Apart from a few sporadic attacks recently to try and draw you away from our area CFS has always existed to defend its own territory. Whether we are losing or not we are the home team here and you are the away players.
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Kashre
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Posted - 2003.11.02 02:12:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Kashre on 02/11/2003 02:16:06
Quote:
It is as simple as this: CFS changes leadership on a daily basis. CA recieves threats that CFS member corps will KOS CA no matter what the CFS Senate decides. How can CA deal with these issues other than on an individual basis. All those who throw thrash and conjecture with alts into this thread though be treated as such. The CA affirms its desire for peace with those CFS members that want peace.
Bahaha. Thats a good one considering the leadership of the CFS has changed exactly once, when Teister resigned because he was leaving to go on a 3 month long vacation. And I'll bet you 100 isk that any threats made to maintain the CA on CFS KOS lists regardless of what the senate says were made by people with little or no authority in the CFS.
The senate is going to pass the treaty, and we'll live by it. But the treaty says nothing at all about us changing our corp tags in its terms. Like the guy said, the CFS is a single whole, and the CFS as a whole will live by the treaty when its passed. If they cant stand thethought of CA corps off the KOS, they'll have to leave the CFS to continue their war against you.
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
Ends
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Posted - 2003.11.02 02:26:00 -
[16]
You know, I have never played a game where one powerful group can survive after it ****es off everyone. The only reason CA survives at this point is bad game mechanics for PvP. That's it. We'll have a warp to option soon and CA is toast. Its just that easy. I am going to start working as a senator to work out a arrangement with SA and FA to organize attacks against the CA. I think this latest idocy by sarkos and co. pretty much illustrates that there is no peace with CA, ever.
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MyrmeenT
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Posted - 2003.11.02 02:36:00 -
[17]
Reclaimer you said,
"CA recieves threats that CFS member corps will KOS CA no matter what the CFS Senate decides. How can CA deal with these issues other than on an individual basis."
Very simply - ratify the treaty and test the CFS Leadership and honor. What does CA has to lose beside one or two ships which be destroyed in the case you describe that a CFS renagate attacking them despite the treaty.
I think that this move of CA to flatly reject the good work of negotiators Sarkos & Kai shows not much serious interest of CA in the peace process. To abort the peace proces unilaterally in the final stage on an assumption shows that some members of your alliance does not want peace. So the CFS could argue the same way - but I seriously doubt that the peace treaty proposal will be rejected in the CFS Senate as it was in your coalition council.
IMHO as CA rejects the peace process "because some CFS members might break the Treaty" it does excactly provoke that exact situation. As I am writing this - I saw Ends posting from Ends jouney - Would he posted that if the CA ratified the treaty ? probably not.
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Mned Graydroggen
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Posted - 2003.11.02 03:20:00 -
[18]
????
Here I am telling my ppl we will have peace soon and on comes the CA with this (cant find a word for it)
Ofcourse some ppl are talking aggressive. Man we are 1500 ppl in the CFS, you think we dont have our Lallante's ? But the peace proposal ( that is beeing voted on as we speak in the CFS senate) deals with such matters. We will punish the ppl who break the treaty on our side, are you affraid to take the same responsability for your ppl ? An now come up with this non-proposal ?
incredible
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Silinary
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Posted - 2003.11.02 03:20:00 -
[19]
Well .. at least they're consistant. The whole war started on their assumption. It should be fitting I suppose that they would end the peace talks on another assumption.
You can do anything you set your mind to. |
Ends
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Posted - 2003.11.02 03:52:00 -
[20]
Hey, for the record I voted for that treaty and would have honored it. I was happy to vote for it. But I have always held that CA are just the kind of poeple that are jerks. I don't trust them, and I never beleived they intended to use the peace process as anything but a way to stall or buy more time while they had fun beating up the weak. They are pirates. Clever people who really like to post crap on the boards, fool people at their expense and ruin others game experience for their own fun. Mabey there are a few good corps but the alliance is bad on the whole. They have to be killed.
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Arms Merchant
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Posted - 2003.11.02 05:19:00 -
[21]
Where in the peace treaty does it say CFS has to contact CA individually? It looks like CA plans to continue attacking anyway and are just adding stuff to the treaty after its signed. CFS doesnt change leadership daily they changed it once when Teister and Calladen left which was the same day. I find it ironic that CA seems to have once again found a way to attack people by claiming garbage. Perhaps Sarkos could be so kind as to point out which part of the treaty allows this? Also from the looks of the treaty CA is supposed to get out of CFS space in 72 hours and then stay out for the next four days. I assume theyre still planning on doing this right? Or are they once again making stuff up as they go as an excuse to keep PKing people?
Arms Merchant
Beta 4 Tester
Resident of Khanid
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Atredies
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Posted - 2003.11.02 05:24:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Atredies on 02/11/2003 07:15:30
Sarkos are you ignoring the peace treaty completely by now asking each member company to surrender to CA like this? All that work Kai put in on the peace treaty and the real hope for peace the members of CFS had is once more shown for naught? You guys lead the entire eve community along like this believing a peace is possible.
You ask us all to trust that CA isn't pirates anymore yet your completely unwilling to trust the new CFS leadership can maintain the peace. So all along you were just stringing us along with this talk of a peace treaty? I cant believe this!!!! You never wanted peace and your using this as a way to keep PK people in FIX. I dont believe for one minute even non-aggressive corps like ones that might surrender to you would be safe as your history of PKing people without warning is very well proven.
The eve of peace for us and its stolen by the CA. Shame on you!
Atredies
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Arms Merchant
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Posted - 2003.11.02 05:41:00 -
[23]
If CFS companies do this and put a CA NEUTRAL note in their corp descriptions will the CA agree to pay restitution for any accidental losses caused by attacks of CA ships? It seems to me this type of guarantee would be important if CFS is to surrender like this. Also is CA then guaranteeing to pay restitution for the non-CFS ships it will accidently destroy?
Arms Merchant
Beta 4 Tester
Resident of Khanid
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Leyla
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Posted - 2003.11.02 06:03:00 -
[24]
We've sent a msg to kai and yodaron about holding a meeting and we're awaiting their reply. Apparently some stuff needs to be clarified and there are some misunderstandings here.
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The Reclaimer
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Posted - 2003.11.02 06:21:00 -
[25]
Look before you leap. M'kay?
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Enraku Reynolt
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Posted - 2003.11.02 06:32:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Enraku Reynolt on 02/11/2003 06:35:11
Arms Merchant
Article One states
No reparations
Simply put
you lose your right to sue due to, CA will claim that the lose ship were in your territory during a time of open hostilies voiding any wrongs on their part
Ill bet 5 isk that will happen
500 no one will get anything tangable
its like Concord's one trit "This will make you feel better" gift
------------------------------------------------
Do not let the world change you.
Change the world
Here's everything I know about war: somebody wins, somebody loses, and nothing is ever the sa |
Atredies
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Posted - 2003.11.02 06:50:00 -
[27]
I hope Kai answers you. She posted her resignation and plans to quit the game. Shes very upset by what happend and said she felt she let us all down. I wish you guys wouldve lived up to your word in the treaty instead of throwing this last minute manuever into the equation.
In some ways I agree with Arms Merchant. If CA plans to continue to operate militarily in CFS space they need to plan to pay restitution to innocent people they kill. The treaty covers past restitution during the war which is fine by me but it isnt carte blanche to continue PKing everyone in sight.
I hope CA realizes this last minute antic does nothing to assure CFS or anyone else of your sincerity. I ask you now to return to the table and agree to the treaty which was being landslided thru the CFS senate.
It would be easier to pass the treaty and then proclaim violation if CFS broke it which appears to be your fear. That would clearly make us the bad guys. Instead you've done this and only further alienated people and made people realize what is happening here. This wasnt a good move at all.
Atredies
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Carcharodon
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Posted - 2003.11.02 07:14:00 -
[28]
more like a cheap ploy to start a civil war.
one cfs to another cfs (neutered)
"hey you put that CA crap on your corp? now you die"
lol
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Wren
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Posted - 2003.11.02 07:22:00 -
[29]
I think all of you are missing one of the biggest points:
A three day withdrawal of CA forces from CFS space in which to negotiate a final peace settlement.
If none of you get the importance of removing a force who is clearly enjoying success in the battlefield from CFS space, then I wonder where you plug in your neural implants...
--------------------------------------------------
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Iluyen
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Posted - 2003.11.02 07:24:00 -
[30]
Quote:
You know, I have never played a game where one powerful group can survive after it ****es off everyone. The only reason CA survives at this point is bad game mechanics for PvP. That's it. We'll have a warp to option soon and CA is toast. Its just that easy. I am going to start working as a senator to work out a arrangement with SA and FA to organize attacks against the CA. I think this latest idocy by sarkos and co. pretty much illustrates that there is no peace with CA, ever.
Lol, your so funny. The reason Stain keeps comming back for more asskicking is the fact they can have a full insurance that allows them to buy a new BS right away. When we killed Thalen Morts BS for the 5th time yesterday he said he didnt care because he had full insurance. When I logged we had killed 5 Stain BS and lost none. Now tell me who is gaining the most by a game mechanic that allows you to shrug off a battleship loss like its nothing.
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