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Sarkos
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Posted - 2003.11.01 23:47:00 -
[1]
Curse Alliance Final Statement regarding the CFS.
The CA announces a cessation of hostilites with the CFS. We know that many of the member corperations have a true desire for a peace and as such wish to present that option to them on a corp by corp basis in the Khanid and JK-FIX regions.
CFS Corporation CEO's are invited to contact Sarkos, Chief CA diplomat, via evemail. Neutrality will be granted to each corp individually as this occurs, and are asked to change their corp tags appropriately. They will acknowledge that no CA member or corp are to be KOS in their home regions. Corps that do not contact us will continue to be KOS.
Neutral parties are reminded that travel into the regions surrounding Curse (bordered by Egbinger and HED-GP) is not advisable, and is at your own risk. Entry into Curse remains prohibited due to the volatile nature of this areas.
As this is a difficult descision for some CFS corps, we will pull our ships out of CFS territory for three days, as a show of faith. This comes into effect on the 2nd of November, after downtime.
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.11.02 00:35:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
Neutrality will be granted to each corp individually as this occurs, and are asked to change their corp tags appropriately.
I'm curious exactly what that means. Does it mean remove CFS entirely or does it mean adding "neutral towards CA"?
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Leyla
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Posted - 2003.11.02 00:47:00 -
[3]
Keep "member of CFS" and also add "neutral to CA" in the description.
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.11.02 01:13:00 -
[4]
Quote:
Keep "member of CFS" and also add "neutral to CA" in the description.
Ok, there has been some confusion about that. People were reading it like they had to remove CFS, which would be harsh. In reality that is not that case. Thanks for clearing that up.
If I put "CA suxorz" can I expect to be podded all the way back to my noob corp? Just kidding 
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Rocket Bob
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Posted - 2003.11.02 01:13:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Rocket Bob on 02/11/2003 01:20:41
Upon first reading, this would seem to be a step in the right directon towards peace between CA and CFS. However, for the CFS members involved, this is at best perplexing and at worst an invitation for CFS member corporations to break ranks and fissure the collective will of the alliance. The reason that this offer by Sarkos seems so confusing and perhaps devicive that literally hours ago, Sarkos and Kai Viqtorr (the chief negotiator for CFS) agreed to bring a peace treaty back to their respective sides for ratification. The treaty is being voted upon as we speak in the CFS Senate. Voting is set to end tomorrow. So far, no nay votes have been registered by CFS senators. 27 senators already approved the treaty. The following is the text of the treaty presently being ratified. As CEO of Novatech and a Senator in CFS, I have already voted to ratify the treaty.
The question is why would CA, represented by Sarkos, spend over a week forging a treaty to be ratified by both sides only to make this announcement immediately afterward? It is confusing and discouraging. Certainly, it is not solid diplomacy.
Here follows the text of the treaty which certianly seems to be on its way to ratification by CFS.
================================================
================================================
Below is the Peace Treaty between the CFS and CA. Once ratified by the Senate and agreed to by the CA Council, it will take effect.
Due to the urgency of this matter, this will be a two (2) day Emergency Voting Bill only. However, by the authority provided by the Negotiation Bill, its effect will not be time limited if accepted.
-----------------
We the free peoples of the Curse Alliance and the Coalition of Free Stars, in an effort to bring a lasting peace between our alliances hereby offer this peace treaty to end the terrible and costly war between us now, and begin a new era of trade and cooperation between our great alliances.
1) No reparations shall be demanded or paid by either side for what has already happened.
2) All existing members of the Curse Alliance will be removed from the CFS KOS list. Any newly reformed known pirate joining the Curse Alliance who is currently on the CFS KOS list, will be given a two week <14 day> probationary period where they must remain clear of any CFS space. Upon successfully achieving this, they shall be removed from the CFS KOS list.
3) A diplomat from both alliances will be assigned to handle and moderate disputes and problems. An alternate will also be chosen. Members are to be approved by both sides.
3A) All evidence will be gathered prior to the meeting so a swift closure can be reached satisfying all involved.
3B) If reparations are warranted, they shall be paid to the offended party without delay, to bring satisfactory closure.
3C) A set channel will be set up for quick and timely resolutions of problems.
3D) If at anytime a stalemate or deadlock is reached in these proceedings, a third party arbitrator approved by both sides will be called in to bring closure to the incident. Both alliances will heed and accept the decision of this agreed upon arbitrator.
3E) Since neither party wishes pirates or griefers, any party found guilty of wilful pirating will be removed from the alliance that they belonged to with proper reparations being awarded to the victim(s).
4) It is the CA's wish that neither Teister nor Edward Preble be involved in any manner of discussion or validity regarding any facet of decisions involving the CA, as it is our opinion they are biased against us and can not be counted on for open minded views and constructive comments. In a similar manner, neither Layla nor Lallente will participate on the CA side of the negotiations with the CFS.
5) HED-GP will remain neutral territory and unclaimed. Both parties retain the right to defend the appropriate jumpgate leading to their own territory.
6) Besides an NAP, no military agreements can be in initiated or maintained with any known enemy of the other. To do so would only support the war efforts of the enemy and strain the relations between the CFS and CA to the point where once again war might result.
7) Upon acceptance of this document, both the CFS and CA will withdraw any forces from each others space. A 72 hour time period will be given for this to occur. Following the withdrawal a 4 day cool-down period will apply, during which neither side may enter the space of the other. After this time, CFS space may only be entered by CA members to travel to and from empire space. After a further 1 week time period, the 0.0 regions of CFS territory, such as JK-FIX will be open to all CA members as well. Any foolhardy person breaking these restrictions or firing weapons during the withdrawal is subject to being hunted with impunity without repercussions.
-- continued --
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Smurf88
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Posted - 2003.11.02 01:13:00 -
[6]
Smurfy tranlations.
"The CA announces a cessation of hostilites with the CFS. We know that many of the member corperations have a true desire for a peace and as such wish to present that option to them on a corp by corp basis in the Khanid and JK-FIX regions."
Means they gonna continue hostilities towards CFS. They just don't want to fight a big fight. And they don't care about the peace treaty. In fact, they close all options for a peace treaty with CFS.
"CFS Corporation CEO's are invited to contact Sarkos, Chief CA diplomat, via evemail. Neutrality will be granted to each corp individually as this occurs, and are asked to change their corp tags appropriately. They will acknowledge that no CA member or corp are to be KOS in their home regions. Corps that do not contact us will continue to be KOS."
Mean sure neutrality. But don't come complaining to the CA if your corp get's shot up by them.
"Neutral parties are reminded that travel into the regions surrounding Curse (bordered by Egbinger and HED-GP) is not advisable, and is at your own risk. Entry into Curse remains prohibited due to the volatile nature of this areas."
Means Travel at your own risc. As is normal in a war zone. Like many regions CA wants to claw into.
"As this is a difficult decision for some CFS corps, we will pull our ships out of CFS territory for three days, as a show of faith. This comes into effect on the 2nd of November, after downtime."
Meaning Don't care about your senate, don't care about CFS just do as you please and pretty please stop working together. Plz be an easy target for future raids.
End of Smurfy tranlations
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Rocket Bob
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Posted - 2003.11.02 01:21:00 -
[7]
-- continuation of peace treaty text --
7A) The CA and CFS both acknowledge a genuine wish for their members to enjoy peace, trade and cooperation and therefore agree that the CA will allow members of CFS into the Curse Region, provided a strict protocol is followed to minimise the risk of friendly fire damage. CA will post a list of executive staff of varying time-zones who will be able to authorise entry into the Curse. CFS pilots must request and obtain approval from someone on this list before entering The Curse Region. While in the Curse Region, if a CFS pilot is notified of a war party roaming the Region, the CFS pilot must make every effort to immediately leave the region, or they accept the risks (and lack of compensation) of becoming inadvertently involved in a fight. The CA also acknowledges that they do not wish neutral mining operations in the 0.0 sectors of CFS space to be interrupted by any war efforts between CA and their enemies. Therefore, should these enemies pursue CA pilots into the 0.0 sectors of CFS space and start camping gates, the CA pilots will make best speed (when safe to do so) to leave these sectors and will not return for 1 week following such an incident. CFS will naturally respond in the usual manner to anyone attempting to gate-camp in its space. If these incidents prove to be a regular occurrence, the access to the 0.0 sectors of CFS space will be reviewed by the committee in discussed in Section 3.
8 ) Both parties will repost their Constitutions reaffirming their stance against piracy and agree to work cooperatively to stamp out piracy. Both parties will acknowledge the other as the holder of the areas they control. These posts will be on the Intergalactic Summit boards of the EVE forums.
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Asimir Kurdugal
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Posted - 2003.11.02 01:28:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Asimir Kurdugal on 02/11/2003 01:29:39
Smurf88,
If you wish to discuss any aspect of the document you are welcome to take a trip to Curse and we'll spell it out for you. That is, if you can muster the courage to bring anything but an alt.
You're invited as well Smurf7, as you are most likely the same person.
________________________________________________
Moving again, comfort of the chase
Now and again, this my saving grace
Dead on the inside, I've got nothing to prove
Keep me alive and give me something to lose
I've been gone so long, but I will come back
I will come back for you |
smurf7
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Posted - 2003.11.02 01:28:00 -
[9]
Oh yeah, I'm so sure CA will just end it's hostilities in the Khanid/JK-FIX regions.
Good luck getting that many corporations from each side to just leave each other alone. CA is just a bunch of spinless babys. Tempests logging off when a little blackbird manages to take them down to almost no armor. Pathetic.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see peace as much as the next guy, but this is the Curse Alliacne we're dealing with here. They're pirates. CFS is the good guys. There will never be peace, especially not a lasting one. |
Enraku Reynolt
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Posted - 2003.11.02 01:46:00 -
[10]
sounds like CA just needs time to reload their weapons
------------------------------------------------
Do not let the world change you.
Change the world
Here's everything I know about war: somebody wins, somebody loses, and nothing is ever the sa |
The Reclaimer
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Posted - 2003.11.02 01:50:00 -
[11]
It is as simple as this: CFS changes leadership on a daily basis. CA recieves threats that CFS member corps will KOS CA no matter what the CFS Senate decides. How can CA deal with these issues other than on an individual basis. All those who throw thrash and conjecture with alts into this thread though be treated as such. The CA affirms its desire for peace with those CFS members that want peace.
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Aillas
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Posted - 2003.11.02 01:53:00 -
[12]
This would appear to be a calculated insult to the negotiators of the alliance and an attempt to divide its member corps.
I very much doubt my corp will have anything to do with approaching CA individually or changing our description. We are CFS members, if a peace treaty is aggreed between CFS and CA then we will honour it. If there is not such a treaty then we wont.
If CA return to FIX and attack our corp members we will defend outselfs as best we can. We will hope that all loyal members of CFS would act to assist us in this since this is the function of an alliance. If the alliance decided to disband that is for it to decide not the head of another alliance.
Why on earth spend two weeks negotiating a peace treaty then release a unilateral statement pre-empting it while it is being voted on? If you have decided you are still at war with us and dont want peace then just say so openly instead of going over the head of the negotiators.
Not really a difficult decision for any corp that is truly still a member of CFS.
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Asimir Kurdugal
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Posted - 2003.11.02 02:04:00 -
[13]
Quote:
If CA return to FIX and attack our corp members we will defend outselfs as best we can.
Does this mean you've given up the offensive?
________________________________________________
Moving again, comfort of the chase
Now and again, this my saving grace
Dead on the inside, I've got nothing to prove
Keep me alive and give me something to lose
I've been gone so long, but I will come back
I will come back for you |
Aillas
|
Posted - 2003.11.02 02:12:00 -
[14]
What offensive? Apart from a few sporadic attacks recently to try and draw you away from our area CFS has always existed to defend its own territory. Whether we are losing or not we are the home team here and you are the away players.
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Kashre
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Posted - 2003.11.02 02:12:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Kashre on 02/11/2003 02:16:06
Quote:
It is as simple as this: CFS changes leadership on a daily basis. CA recieves threats that CFS member corps will KOS CA no matter what the CFS Senate decides. How can CA deal with these issues other than on an individual basis. All those who throw thrash and conjecture with alts into this thread though be treated as such. The CA affirms its desire for peace with those CFS members that want peace.
Bahaha. Thats a good one considering the leadership of the CFS has changed exactly once, when Teister resigned because he was leaving to go on a 3 month long vacation. And I'll bet you 100 isk that any threats made to maintain the CA on CFS KOS lists regardless of what the senate says were made by people with little or no authority in the CFS.
The senate is going to pass the treaty, and we'll live by it. But the treaty says nothing at all about us changing our corp tags in its terms. Like the guy said, the CFS is a single whole, and the CFS as a whole will live by the treaty when its passed. If they cant stand thethought of CA corps off the KOS, they'll have to leave the CFS to continue their war against you.
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
Ends
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Posted - 2003.11.02 02:26:00 -
[16]
You know, I have never played a game where one powerful group can survive after it ****es off everyone. The only reason CA survives at this point is bad game mechanics for PvP. That's it. We'll have a warp to option soon and CA is toast. Its just that easy. I am going to start working as a senator to work out a arrangement with SA and FA to organize attacks against the CA. I think this latest idocy by sarkos and co. pretty much illustrates that there is no peace with CA, ever.
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MyrmeenT
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Posted - 2003.11.02 02:36:00 -
[17]
Reclaimer you said,
"CA recieves threats that CFS member corps will KOS CA no matter what the CFS Senate decides. How can CA deal with these issues other than on an individual basis."
Very simply - ratify the treaty and test the CFS Leadership and honor. What does CA has to lose beside one or two ships which be destroyed in the case you describe that a CFS renagate attacking them despite the treaty.
I think that this move of CA to flatly reject the good work of negotiators Sarkos & Kai shows not much serious interest of CA in the peace process. To abort the peace proces unilaterally in the final stage on an assumption shows that some members of your alliance does not want peace. So the CFS could argue the same way - but I seriously doubt that the peace treaty proposal will be rejected in the CFS Senate as it was in your coalition council.
IMHO as CA rejects the peace process "because some CFS members might break the Treaty" it does excactly provoke that exact situation. As I am writing this - I saw Ends posting from Ends jouney - Would he posted that if the CA ratified the treaty ? probably not.
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Mned Graydroggen
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Posted - 2003.11.02 03:20:00 -
[18]
????
Here I am telling my ppl we will have peace soon and on comes the CA with this (cant find a word for it)
Ofcourse some ppl are talking aggressive. Man we are 1500 ppl in the CFS, you think we dont have our Lallante's ? But the peace proposal ( that is beeing voted on as we speak in the CFS senate) deals with such matters. We will punish the ppl who break the treaty on our side, are you affraid to take the same responsability for your ppl ? An now come up with this non-proposal ?
incredible
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Silinary
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Posted - 2003.11.02 03:20:00 -
[19]
Well .. at least they're consistant. The whole war started on their assumption. It should be fitting I suppose that they would end the peace talks on another assumption.
You can do anything you set your mind to. |
Ends
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Posted - 2003.11.02 03:52:00 -
[20]
Hey, for the record I voted for that treaty and would have honored it. I was happy to vote for it. But I have always held that CA are just the kind of poeple that are jerks. I don't trust them, and I never beleived they intended to use the peace process as anything but a way to stall or buy more time while they had fun beating up the weak. They are pirates. Clever people who really like to post crap on the boards, fool people at their expense and ruin others game experience for their own fun. Mabey there are a few good corps but the alliance is bad on the whole. They have to be killed.
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Arms Merchant
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Posted - 2003.11.02 05:19:00 -
[21]
Where in the peace treaty does it say CFS has to contact CA individually? It looks like CA plans to continue attacking anyway and are just adding stuff to the treaty after its signed. CFS doesnt change leadership daily they changed it once when Teister and Calladen left which was the same day. I find it ironic that CA seems to have once again found a way to attack people by claiming garbage. Perhaps Sarkos could be so kind as to point out which part of the treaty allows this? Also from the looks of the treaty CA is supposed to get out of CFS space in 72 hours and then stay out for the next four days. I assume theyre still planning on doing this right? Or are they once again making stuff up as they go as an excuse to keep PKing people?
Arms Merchant
Beta 4 Tester
Resident of Khanid
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Atredies
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Posted - 2003.11.02 05:24:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Atredies on 02/11/2003 07:15:30
Sarkos are you ignoring the peace treaty completely by now asking each member company to surrender to CA like this? All that work Kai put in on the peace treaty and the real hope for peace the members of CFS had is once more shown for naught? You guys lead the entire eve community along like this believing a peace is possible.
You ask us all to trust that CA isn't pirates anymore yet your completely unwilling to trust the new CFS leadership can maintain the peace. So all along you were just stringing us along with this talk of a peace treaty? I cant believe this!!!! You never wanted peace and your using this as a way to keep PK people in FIX. I dont believe for one minute even non-aggressive corps like ones that might surrender to you would be safe as your history of PKing people without warning is very well proven.
The eve of peace for us and its stolen by the CA. Shame on you!
Atredies
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Arms Merchant
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Posted - 2003.11.02 05:41:00 -
[23]
If CFS companies do this and put a CA NEUTRAL note in their corp descriptions will the CA agree to pay restitution for any accidental losses caused by attacks of CA ships? It seems to me this type of guarantee would be important if CFS is to surrender like this. Also is CA then guaranteeing to pay restitution for the non-CFS ships it will accidently destroy?
Arms Merchant
Beta 4 Tester
Resident of Khanid
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Leyla
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Posted - 2003.11.02 06:03:00 -
[24]
We've sent a msg to kai and yodaron about holding a meeting and we're awaiting their reply. Apparently some stuff needs to be clarified and there are some misunderstandings here.
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The Reclaimer
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Posted - 2003.11.02 06:21:00 -
[25]
Look before you leap. M'kay?
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Enraku Reynolt
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Posted - 2003.11.02 06:32:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Enraku Reynolt on 02/11/2003 06:35:11
Arms Merchant
Article One states
No reparations
Simply put
you lose your right to sue due to, CA will claim that the lose ship were in your territory during a time of open hostilies voiding any wrongs on their part
Ill bet 5 isk that will happen
500 no one will get anything tangable
its like Concord's one trit "This will make you feel better" gift
------------------------------------------------
Do not let the world change you.
Change the world
Here's everything I know about war: somebody wins, somebody loses, and nothing is ever the sa |
Atredies
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Posted - 2003.11.02 06:50:00 -
[27]
I hope Kai answers you. She posted her resignation and plans to quit the game. Shes very upset by what happend and said she felt she let us all down. I wish you guys wouldve lived up to your word in the treaty instead of throwing this last minute manuever into the equation.
In some ways I agree with Arms Merchant. If CA plans to continue to operate militarily in CFS space they need to plan to pay restitution to innocent people they kill. The treaty covers past restitution during the war which is fine by me but it isnt carte blanche to continue PKing everyone in sight.
I hope CA realizes this last minute antic does nothing to assure CFS or anyone else of your sincerity. I ask you now to return to the table and agree to the treaty which was being landslided thru the CFS senate.
It would be easier to pass the treaty and then proclaim violation if CFS broke it which appears to be your fear. That would clearly make us the bad guys. Instead you've done this and only further alienated people and made people realize what is happening here. This wasnt a good move at all.
Atredies
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Carcharodon
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Posted - 2003.11.02 07:14:00 -
[28]
more like a cheap ploy to start a civil war.
one cfs to another cfs (neutered)
"hey you put that CA crap on your corp? now you die"
lol
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Wren
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Posted - 2003.11.02 07:22:00 -
[29]
I think all of you are missing one of the biggest points:
A three day withdrawal of CA forces from CFS space in which to negotiate a final peace settlement.
If none of you get the importance of removing a force who is clearly enjoying success in the battlefield from CFS space, then I wonder where you plug in your neural implants...
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Iluyen
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Posted - 2003.11.02 07:24:00 -
[30]
Quote:
You know, I have never played a game where one powerful group can survive after it ****es off everyone. The only reason CA survives at this point is bad game mechanics for PvP. That's it. We'll have a warp to option soon and CA is toast. Its just that easy. I am going to start working as a senator to work out a arrangement with SA and FA to organize attacks against the CA. I think this latest idocy by sarkos and co. pretty much illustrates that there is no peace with CA, ever.
Lol, your so funny. The reason Stain keeps comming back for more asskicking is the fact they can have a full insurance that allows them to buy a new BS right away. When we killed Thalen Morts BS for the 5th time yesterday he said he didnt care because he had full insurance. When I logged we had killed 5 Stain BS and lost none. Now tell me who is gaining the most by a game mechanic that allows you to shrug off a battleship loss like its nothing.
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Leyla
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Posted - 2003.11.02 07:42:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Leyla on 02/11/2003 08:49:34
Ok, I've just spoken to Kai the CFS representative for the peace talks. Right now in the interests of peace, CA is initiating a full withdrawal of military forces from CFS space (effective at downtime 3hrs and 20min from now). Urgent negotiations will be undertaken immediately. More to follow on this developement.
Latest : The statement of the first post of this thread has been suspended pending peace talks. The 3 day ceasefire is still in effect this coming downtime. This will give us 1 day to hammer out the last peace proposal drafted and give the CFS senate 2 days to vote on the bill.
Hopefully this will get CA/CFS back on track.
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.11.02 08:47:00 -
[32]
Quote:
Ok, I've just spoken to Kai the CFS representative for the peace talks. Right now in the interests of peace, CA is initiating a full withdrawal of military forces from CFS space (effective at downtime 3hrs and 20min from now). Urgent negotiations will be undertaken immediately. More to follow on this developement.
Just a quick question. If you guys are really on about this peace thing why are you camping choak points within CFS space two and a half hours before you say you will be "withdrawn"?
Buell Fan > 2003.11.02 08:29:00
Involved parties:
BobGhengisKhan
JadeAfterglow
As far as I know JadeAfterglow is an admitted alt of PsXDnS, correct?
I'm confused by the actions being different from the words. Do you guys want peace? Could someone explain this? XirtamVotf was in Gehi locking on to people too. It didn't happen to me but someone was asking "who is XirtamVotf and why are they locking me?" What's up with that?
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Wren
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Posted - 2003.11.02 09:06:00 -
[33]
When the cease fire is issued the CA forces will withdrawal or face strict disciplinary actions.
However, to pull back prematurely is unwarrented. War is war.
Lola, if you question the sincerity at which CA is seeking peace, then I ask you, why would we offer such a cease fire to begin with?
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.11.02 09:46:00 -
[34]
Quote:
However, to pull back prematurely is unwarrented. War is war.
Lola, if you question the sincerity at which CA is seeking peace, then I ask you, why would we offer such a cease fire to begin with?
That's kinda funny. Why don't you tell me why you'd offer such a cease fire but come kill people. Is that logical? I guess we can just wait and see how things turn out. Seems to me like if you guys really wanted peace you'd just leave the area and stop camping the trade lanes. Seeing as how most everything has taken place in JK-FIX. If I'm misinformed please correct me.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Wren
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Posted - 2003.11.02 09:53:00 -
[35]
We want peace.
We just don't want you to forget why the cease fire is being called.
To end the hostilities until a benificial to all agreement can be negotiated while outside the weapons of war cool.
To call attention to the continued WAR while the cease fire is not in full effect is pointless, and quite silly.
However, once the cease fire officially begins, if any CA forces remain in hostile array, then by all means, call attention to them. List all individuals involved for all to see.
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Enraku Reynolt
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Posted - 2003.11.02 10:23:00 -
[36]
Peace with a gun barrel to your head is not peace
------------------------------------------------
Do not let the world change you.
Change the world
Here's everything I know about war: somebody wins, somebody loses, and nothing is ever the sa |
Wren
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Posted - 2003.11.02 10:34:00 -
[37]
Thanks for that clichÚ.
I am sure we all need another dose of dogma and rhetoric and postureing at this time.
Go shaft yourself bud.
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Enraku Reynolt
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Posted - 2003.11.02 10:38:00 -
[38]
I was only stating a simple truth
and you attempt to insult me
I wonder if you treat your allies as poorly?
------------------------------------------------
Do not let the world change you.
Change the world
Here's everything I know about war: somebody wins, somebody loses, and nothing is ever the sa |
Raindrop
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Posted - 2003.11.02 11:19:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Posted - 02/11/2003 07:22:00 - Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think all of you are missing one of the biggest points:
A three day withdrawal of CA forces from CFS space in which to negotiate a final peace settlement.
If none of you get the importance of removing a force who is clearly enjoying success in the battlefield from CFS space, then I wonder where you plug in your neural implants...
Wren
I believe you fail to see that in the original peace treaty that was already drawn in. So it's just you guys waving a repetition of the same hoping to look good.
Failed!
Raindrop
Trader of low end stuff and NPC goods. Recycler of junk.
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Wren
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Posted - 2003.11.02 11:36:00 -
[40]
Actually, the orginial stated that after the agreement was signed and ratified by all CFS senate and the CA council of CEO's, a cooldown period of one week would be observed.
This however is a cease fire to prevent any more losses to CFS ships, and to instill a bit of peace for non involved parties to make sure they are safe.
I hate to keep saying this over and over again, but the cease fire is only a good thing. CA could instead keep camping chokes, destroying convoys and generally causing chaos with the CFS.
However, in good faith they are stepping back and trying to get some sort of offer on the table.
If you are concerned that the CA fleets will not observe the cease fire, then please make haste to catch a CA ship doing so. Post his or her pilot name and ship classification here for all to witness.
Otherwise, unless you have something positive to say about the turn of events, try to scream into a pillow instead.
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Lallante
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Posted - 2003.11.02 11:55:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Lallante on 02/11/2003 12:29:04
Firstly, the first statement was the joint work of the entire CA leadership. Let me draw you a timeline that will hopefully explain why we came to the decision to do this:
War started (as far as i can tell) on October 14th.
By October 16th we had won our first large battle for minimal losses
By October 20th, fleets larger than 10 ships were rarely put forward by the CFS
By October 24th, JK-FIX traffic was reduced to almost nothing. AT THIS POINT CFS finally accepted the need for peace and produced a ceasefire agreement. It favoured them and did not make the concessions (accepting that all CA was not KOS) that were key to the war. REJECTED.
By the Next Day, a Counter offer was proposed, It is essentially exactly the same as the deal the council claims they are currently reviewing.
By October 27th, CA owned JK-FIX and had presence in the CFS capital Gehi. The CA proposal was rejected on extremely minor grounds. A new-proposal with minor wording changes was submitted. NITPICKING begins. Various CFS members post on the CFS boards that they wouldnt agree to it. Sarkos recieves his first death threat from a CFS member.
On November 1st, CFS as a military force was considered dead by any members of the CA still fighting.
This was not an agressive statement, instead it is a response to the literally DOZENS of Ceo's who msg CA representatives with requests to be left out of the war, or even to join the CA. CFS leadership can have no idea what scale this has occured on.
We presented a reasonable agreement, helped change it to make it more acceptable, but enough is enough, we felt that we would not delay forever. Since the current treaty was submitted, 1 Week and 1 day has past. We have decided to give peace to the Corps that want it now.
WE DID NOT WANT TO CANCEL EXISTING TREATIES, WE WERE JUST OFFERING QUICK (and if the official treaty fails, temporary) PEACE TO THOSE WHO WANT IT UNTIL THE CFS COUNCIL GETS THEIR BEAURO-CRAP SORTED.
It has had some beneficial effect. The council has been forced into action and the 3 day withdrawel mentioned in the first post is still in force. By the end of this 3 day period, we will KNOW whether CFS wants peace or not.
Kai Viqtorr:
"until that first post is retracted, discussions cannot commence"
"You do realise that based on current CFS Charter, anything we discuss will have to be put to a 2 day vote. The only wayto avoid this is to have a 2 day vote to give our delegation the authority to bind the Senate without a vote. (Senate Procedures)"
"once we have a treaty, it will take 48 hours to gain Senate Ratification "
"any vote will have to start from scratch again"
This kid just LOVES delays. Bet he pulls a 97.5 hour "cooldown period" from somewhere next or a 73.43 hour "good-faith period"
Flames to the usual address ;)
Lall - THE Vocal Minority -
ShinRa
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MyrmeenT
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Posted - 2003.11.02 12:57:00 -
[42]
Edited by: MyrmeenT on 02/11/2003 14:38:33
Lallante,
some words from a CFS member who considers himself a typical "carebear" as most CFS members are seen from CA.
I dont want to argue about losses / wins or whatever happened in that campaign also your statements are of course a one-sided view. CA did not control A2 or JD-FIX totally. But I want to to give you some insight into the thinking of a different kind of Eve people which forms the bulk of CFS Memberships.
Remember CFS was founded with an open-region policy from the start a neutral stance towards other (closed) alliances. This attracted many people who want to be drawn into endless confclicts but to enjoy their vision of eve - mutual coorperation and support not dominance over others.
The military situation was therefore clear from the beginning: A bunch of highly skilled PKs was let loose onto a hodgepodge of players consisting of some small number of skilled but a majority of unskilled people regarding PvP.
In the posting above above you complain:
"The CA proposal was rejected on extremely minor grounds. A new-proposal with minor wording changes was submitted. NITPICKING begins. Various CFS members post on the CFS boards that they wouldnt agree to it. Sarkos recieves his first death threat from a CFS member. .... Now, given the decisive nature of the fighting, and the one sidedness of it, CFSs REPEATED delays (over a week ALREADY for minor wording changes) and minor nit-picking over peace were not only undesirable for most CFS members, but also an extremely arrogant denial of their position in the war."
First - CFS is a democracy and you probably know that democracies have a tedious and cumbersome decision-making-process (i.e. there is a minmal 48h emergency voting process which can be further reduced). In the CA the smaller CEO council (compared to the CFS Senate size and voting process) make things much easier. In a democracy there are always people arguing and dissenting - so the delays are a symtom of the CFS structure not because they were intended. Every step in the peace process was done with the fastet way the CFS charter allows.
Second - re threats - I dont recount the many threats I had seen from CA members or their alts on the CFS boards or channels. I believe Sarkos had discounted them as CFS members had discounted the CA threats against them. Although Sarkos as your negotiator has naturally came under fire from some CFS members on our boards - many people have great respect for the work he and Kai had done for the benefit of us all.
One of the main problems - I see (and I am not alone with that view), is that CA accuses CFS of arrogance (you especially) but the actions and postings of many CA members shows exactly the opposite. You posted on the CFS forum:
"would SERIOUSLY like this question answered, preferably without flames. What does CA gain by agreeing to your peace proposal, why would we agree to it? Simply: We already have full and fairly safe access to your space whenever we want. We enjoy fighting you as unexperienced prey, and even you must admit we are winning the war by a large margin. For what reasons would a ceasfire deal of the nature of the one you propose, with no reparations or concessions on CFSs part, benefit us?"
If your statement is not arrogance - I dont know what arrongance is then. One of the real causes of the war is that several CA members want an easy prey and to force their will upon others. They have no intention get a real peace process underway. The problem is founded in a completely different mindset - and I honestly dont know what to do about that. I ask you therfore: why should true PK-ler accept a peaceful solution - whom should they kill in such a situation ?
Have a nice day and be proud that people like you managed to derail a promising peace on the last minute
P.S. English is not my native language - so please excuse any errors
Edit1 to include italics
Edit2 change some wordings due to Wrens posting below
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Asimir Kurdugal
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Posted - 2003.11.02 13:06:00 -
[43]
Quote:
If your statement is not arrogance - I dont know what arrongance is then.
Arrogance is being crushed at the hands of a superior force and thinking that you should have a say in the terms of surrender. This is war, to the victors go the spoils.
If you didn't want to lose, you should have never picked the fight.
________________________________________________
Moving again, comfort of the chase
Now and again, this my saving grace
Dead on the inside, I've got nothing to prove
Keep me alive and give me something to lose
I've been gone so long, but I will come back
I will come back for you |
Alkad Mzu
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Posted - 2003.11.02 13:31:00 -
[44]
Asimir, i'm grateful for your continued efforts at making CA look like complete idiots. I'm sure your council is very impressed as well.
________________________________________________
Head of Public Relations, Fountain Alliance |
Lallante
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Posted - 2003.11.02 13:38:00 -
[45]
I for one am glad that Alkad didnt win his leadership bid for the CFS. God knows what would have happened to CFS if that had happened. (It would probably have been messy and involve whining)
Lall - THE Vocal Minority -
ShinRa
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MyrmeenT
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Posted - 2003.11.02 13:41:00 -
[46]
Edited by: MyrmeenT on 02/11/2003 13:50:12
"WE DID NOT WANT TO CANCEL EXISTING TREATIES, WE WERE JUST OFFERING QUICK (and if the official treaty fails, temporary) PEACE TO THOSE WHO WANT IT UNTIL THE CFS COUNCIL GETS THEIR BEAURO-CRAP SORTED."
This is plainly wrong. Sarkos and XirtamVOTF clearly stated in conversations with CFS members that the "CA Final Statement" was made because the CA CEO Council rejected the peace treaty prepared by CFS/CA negotiators in their saturday meeting. The "CA Final Statement" was made instead of the last peace treaty proposal not as an additional option.
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Alkad Mzu
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Posted - 2003.11.02 13:51:00 -
[47]
Quote:
I for one am glad that Alkad didnt win his leadership bid for the CFS. God knows what would have happened to CFS if that had happened. (It would probably have been messy and involve whining)
Get over yourself Lallante. I have been a vigilant supporter of peace all along, much unlike yourself.
That doesn't mean i reject the right to let obvious dimwits amuse me.
________________________________________________
Head of Public Relations, Fountain Alliance |
Lallante
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Posted - 2003.11.02 13:59:00 -
[48]
thats not what some of the defectors who left CFS have been saying about you alkad..
Lall - THE Vocal Minority -
ShinRa
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Wren
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Posted - 2003.11.02 14:00:00 -
[49]
Great, let's all fall into flaming everyone else.
Quote:
In the CA some corps dominate that make things much easier. In a democracy there are always people arguing and dissenting - so the delays are a symtom of the CFS structure not because they were intended.
I urge you to take the time one day to visit the CA in person. Perhaps there you will see that every CEO has the power to affect change within the CA council. Things are done quicker in the CA because no voting is done for anything that isn't absolutely needed, this way, they devote all the time in meetings to voting or discussing pending issues. The CA operates as a team. The only thing is that most members never visit these boards, and the posting of only a few individuals skews the perception of the CA.
--------------------------------------------------
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Mr Blonde
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Posted - 2003.11.02 14:09:00 -
[50]
"ok guys, it seems that us declaring war on CFS and destroying everything down there was too blatantly obvious pirating, so we are now declaring peace, so that we look like good guys after all"
I just wonder who the next victim of "war" will be
__________________________________________
Are you gonna bark all day, little doggy, or are you gonna bite?? |
Lallante
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Posted - 2003.11.02 14:17:00 -
[51]
"declaring war on CFS and destroying everything down there was too blatantly obvious pirating"
Are you actually mentally retarded or is it just an extremely clever act? WAR IS NOT PIRACY. JUST BECAUSE YOU GOT INTO A WAR YOU CANT WIN DOESNT MEAN WE ARE PIRATES FOR REPEATEDLY KICKING YOUR ASSES
Lall - THE Vocal Minority -
ShinRa
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MyrmeenT
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Posted - 2003.11.02 14:17:00 -
[52]
Wren, my apologize.
I accept then your statement as fact of the current situation in the CA CEO council.
But you confirmed what I was trying to explain to Lallante - CA is much faster in doing decisions and CFS not. Thats all I wanted to say in my first reply to Lallante.
Asimir, thanks for the enlightement.
I pledge guilty in being an arrogant carebear, guilty in stubbornly defending my home territory against aggressors. I will fight to the last isk and scordite asteroid if cornered. Sorry thats the nature of real (care)bears.
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Wren
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Posted - 2003.11.02 14:32:00 -
[53]
Lallente, Mr. Blonde is the local CA stalker. He likes to post jibes and derogatory remarks whenever there is a thread involving CA. Just do like most of the rest of the universe and pretend there is a squelch button and ignore him.
--------------------------------------------------
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Lallante
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Posted - 2003.11.02 14:38:00 -
[54]
oh sorry, he just sounded like a member of CFS
Lall - THE Vocal Minority -
ShinRa
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Mr Blonde
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Posted - 2003.11.02 16:45:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Mr Blonde on 02/11/2003 16:47:19
Quote:
Lallente, Mr. Blonde is the local CA stalker. He likes to post jibes and derogatory remarks whenever there is a thread involving CA. Just do like most of the rest of the universe and pretend there is a squelch button and ignore him.
Ya, its gotta be annoying when people post the truth. Poor Wren, and his house of lies.
As to Lallente, who seems to not have quite grasped the concept of reading and comprehension:
Instigating a war, to kill pretty much defenseless people is as much pirating as doing the same thing, without declaring war.
I saw someone else ask in one of these threads wether TLBC / Biomass would still be considered pirates, if they declared war on the entire universe before killing every person they came across, or wether it could all be excused with "being at WAR". I thought the question quite intruiging and fitting, even if everyone from your pirate alliance avoided it like you avoid the truth.
__________________________________________
Are you gonna bark all day, little doggy, or are you gonna bite?? |
Sarkos
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Posted - 2003.11.02 16:53:00 -
[56]
Let me say this, as I have insight through meetings and negotiation to state both sides. The reason for the war will depend on which side of the fence you are on. The CFS claim piracy. The CA claim that manipulation of the KOS list caused incidents that then lead to piracy claims. The reason for this war no longer matters.
The final statement was issued to give those that truely wanted peace a way to avoid the war until a formal peace proposal was finally agreed to. Knowing that there were people on BOTH sides that wanted to continue, and seeing as how the peace treaty was nitpicked to death, this option was voted on, and agreed to by the Councel of CEO's.
Since the startings of the peace talks we have been conacted by MANY CFS corporation asking when peace would be ready. Though our Councel of CEO's seem capable of direct decisions and quick action, the Senate of the CFS seem unable to reach ANY decision. Just once, I would have liked to have heard 'Alter this statement to this wording and we will agree to it.' But that was not the case.
Over 23 changes were made to the proposal while I still had the patience to work on it. All changes were made in an effort to satisfy the CFS Senate. DUring this time numerous requests and threats were received. The requests were from corporations seeking peace. The threats were from those that stated there would never be peace.
So, seeing the split in the CFS, we offered a suitable alternative. Those that want peace can have it and those that want war can continue on this path. With the lack of control the CFS Senate seems to have, this seemed the only possible alternitive. I did my best to word it as non-offensive as possible.
I find it funny that after all the stalling and disputes on the content of the peace treaty, that NOW the Senate claims to be willing to pass it. Where was the commitment before?
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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Tommy Boy
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Posted - 2003.11.02 17:36:00 -
[57]
Sarkos,
In order to prevent unwanted comments from both sides i would like to answer the question from a completely unbias and a very outside view.
--This of course is not an official CFS statment.--
When in times of great struggle the hearts of my fellow CFS commrades were overtaken by greif and despair. In no manner were they ready to admit failure on something so dear and presiuos to them. For many months they built CFS from nothing to what it is today. Thier works procede them by knowing that CFS is one of the most well known and well respected for their openess and friendlyness to all those they make contact with. I am not on the CFS senate, but i can imagine the debates over giving admitting defeat for it is not easy to do so. However with the senate back in full swing and this proposal on your desk I ask that you see past the time it took the senate, to walk on and forgive, i have asked for it, now all of CFS asks for it and a settlement to the conflict
CFS hold you heads down not, walk with pride, walk with freedom, walk with me to peace.
_____________________
Times have to change
--------------------- |
Edward Preble
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Posted - 2003.11.02 17:52:00 -
[58]
I find it mildly ironic that people have never heard of 'negotiations', or 'offer, counteroffer'.
Yes, the treaty wasn't accepted at face value, it had to be reshaped, in a way which both sides would agree.
Then, at the end, when both sides do have a proposal they'll submit, we put it up for an emergency voting period of 2 days. And THEN CA pulls back, saying we're unwilling to work with them? Interesting time.
Edward Preble
Coalition of Free Stars
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Tommy Boy
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Posted - 2003.11.02 18:23:00 -
[59]
Ok i really getting confused Please let everyone <since we are a part of it> where these "offers" stand? The proposal sent into Curse was not accepted? Update plz
_____________________
Times have to change
--------------------- |
Mned Graydroggen
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Posted - 2003.11.02 20:28:00 -
[60]
Lallante wrote
Quote:
It has had some beneficial effect. The council has been forced into action and the 3 day withdrawel mentioned in the first post is still in force. By the end of this 3 day period, we will KNOW whether CFS wants peace or not
.
Realy the voting would have been closed by the same dt you now set as your departure time. And the vote was going well, in favor. This *new deal* had no beneficial effect, quite the opposite.
Please respect our way of doing things. This situation wouldnt even exist if you had withdrawn at any moment in the last few weeks.
.
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Asimir Kurdugal
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Posted - 2003.11.02 21:03:00 -
[61]
Quote:
Asimir, thanks for the enlightement.
I pledge guilty in being an arrogant carebear, guilty in stubbornly defending my home territory against aggressors. I will fight to the last isk and scordite asteroid if cornered. Sorry thats the nature of real (care)bears.
Well, I'm sorry MyrmeenT, but not only do I see arrogance in CFS's actions and words but I also see hypocrisy.
When a CA member sues for peace with their enemies on the basis that any members who may have pirated in the past have since reformed we are met with insults and shown no mercy. Yet, when one of our enemies fights, and loses, a war with the CA they expect to be shown leniency. Losing a war is not a good thing. If you wish to continue the fight, that's your desicion, but do not look down your nose at a chance for survival.
________________________________________________
Moving again, comfort of the chase
Now and again, this my saving grace
Dead on the inside, I've got nothing to prove
Keep me alive and give me something to lose
I've been gone so long, but I will come back
I will come back for you |
Kai Viqtorr
|
Posted - 2003.11.02 21:13:00 -
[62]
Quote:
Let me say this, as I have insight through meetings and negotiation to state both sides.
...
Though our Councel of CEO's seem capable of direct decisions and quick action, the Senate of the CFS seem unable to reach ANY decision. Just once, I would have liked to have heard 'Alter this statement to this wording and we will agree to it.' But that was not the case.
Over 23 changes were made to the proposal while I still had the patience to work on it. All changes were made in an effort to satisfy the CFS Senate.
...
I find it funny that after all the stalling and disputes on the content of the peace treaty, that NOW the Senate claims to be willing to pass it.
I am sorry Sarkos, but your insight must have been very limited. You negotiations wer NOT with the CFS Senate, they were with ME. I was the AUTHORISED REPRESENTATIVE of that body. I had been given a set of goals to achieve by the Senate and you and I were working towards that goal. Remember, that for every change I made, you also made changes to the document. While the members of the Senate had access to the forums we were negotiating on, it was NOT formally presented to the Senate for a vote. Why? Because it takes a minimum 48 hours for a vote to be declared valid! I do not take 48 hours to formally respond! In fact, if you read the timestamps, my responses were mostly within a few hours. Had the Senate been involved AT EVERY OFFER, we would currently be at change 6 out of 23. That is why the vote was held off until the end. Additionally, I would not and could not present the treaty to the CFS Senate until I was assurred that you were not going to make any changes. If we voted on a treaty and you then changed it, the vote would be useless. After I posted the last changes, I was advised by Rising Sin the you (Sarkos) was revising parts of the treaty. I gave you 36 hours, then addressed Rising Sin again about the treaty. That was when he finally said that no more changes were going to be made and we could present the treaty to our executives as a "final" copy. That occurred LESS THAN 12 HOURS BEFORE YOUR COUNTER PROPOSAL. So, had it not been for delays by YOU, the treaty could have been presented to CFS Senate and finalised, long before your CA Council meeting. I am afraid the basic responsibility for the current state of affairs, must be laid squarely at your feet.
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Raindrop
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Posted - 2003.11.02 23:03:00 -
[63]
Respectfully has nothing to say anymore.
Raindrop
Trader of low end stuff and NPC goods. Recycler of junk.
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Miss Cleo
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Posted - 2003.11.02 23:27:00 -
[64]
I guess the only hypocrites I see here are the CA. They claim to believe CFS has corps that will attack them yet they are the ones with the history of agression. When asked to believe CFS corps will follow a treaty they instead put this last minute humiliating manuever into play. Yet they ask us all to believe some of the worst pirates in the history of Eve (sinister) are suddenly good and expect us to believe them. The treaty I read looked good and from what CFS says was going to be approved. Why did CA suddenly pull this PR fiasco?
READ EVE GUARDIAN
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Rixeh
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Posted - 2003.11.03 00:01:00 -
[65]
Sarkos should demand a ******* titan from CFS due to his patience with these dim *******s. Here, let me type it in big words for you CFS goombas:
THE CFS IS IN NO POSITION TO MAKE DEMANDS FOR PEACE. THIS IS YOUR SURRENDER.
Naturally I have no official say, but you should be thankful for that, else I would've told you to shove that peace treaty up your collective asses.
-----
Of war men will ask its outcome, not its cause.
-- Seneca
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Tanarii
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Posted - 2003.11.03 00:24:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Tanarii on 03/11/2003 00:25:27
Asimir,
Some explanations to my reply to you:
It was mostly meant as an Satire (dont remember the english word that late in the night). That way I was joking about your "dramatic" explanation what war was about and even joking about ourself as "carebears". Dont take it too seriously.
The serious part in it was that it should highlight the reason why are most of us fighting. But if the peace treaty works I will be one the first to lay down arms and get back to my carebear work.
one final thought - we should remember Eve should be only a game. I believe many here take it too seriously - and I am asking myself sometimes that too.
Have a good night
MyrmeenT
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Aillas
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Posted - 2003.11.03 00:39:00 -
[67]
What a load of crap.
We havent surrendered and the peace treaty is not a surrender document.
A number of CA have stated - "We control FIX, CFS is about to be destroyed".
Lol this game does not allow you to do any such thing, taking control of A2-V for a few hours each day by sitting on its entry point and killing some ships is annoying, and disrupts traffic. But frankly most ships lost are insured and the owners are back in new ones the same day. Minutes after you leave A2-V the system is back to normal. Even when you control it CFS in the FIX are still busy mining and hunting.
We would like to see peace return but frankly if the cost of that is to let a load of virtual bullies walk all over us I think the majority of true CFS corps would prefer to stay at war.
This is a game. It gives people who play it entertainment and enjoyment. Even if we dont win many battles so far, we are only losing immaterial items in cyberspace. But if we let a load of smack talking thugs push us around, that would be something real we would take back to the real world, depressing us, spoiling our day, spoiling the game. So frankly there is no pressure or incentive for us to surrender to you.
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SixKiller
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Posted - 2003.11.03 07:42:00 -
[68]
This is all very over the top. There are no stations in JK-FIX. No CFS or CFS alied corps are based in JK-FIX (the no stations thing). Most of the activity in JK-FIX is a short mining trip to dig up enough rare minerals to make a few ships or some NPC hunting. Even before CA camped the choke point to JK-FIX there was never a large volume of traffic there.
That being said I think it is clear the CA has something more pressing on there agenda then shooting up miscelanous miners/NPC hunters. My guess is that they intend to terrorize and purge the great wildlands. Unlike JK-FIX there are corps actually based there. I would think that they will operate in a similer way, they will take a few choke points finding out how many ships it takes to hold them there (in CFS space it seems that 8-12 BS is required depending on time of day). They will then offer free passage out, and then shoot to kill ships carrying things like BP's. If I was in one of those corps, I would move such items immediantly for safe keeping. Two telling things here, the first is the deadline given to those corps to vacate area, the second being a re-deployment of CA blocade ships from CFS/JK-FIX space.
Although once the wildlands is purged of the peacefull inhabitants, Sinister/Shinra/RC ships will not remain dormant. They will p[ick the place they feel is least protected and begin again.
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Wren
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Posted - 2003.11.03 08:21:00 -
[69]
Well, if your 'prophecy' comes to pass, then you can rightfully call CA pirates.
I however have a different idea about what will happen.
--------------------------------------------------
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Sedsiss
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Posted - 2003.11.03 12:07:00 -
[70]
Am I the only one who gets a kick out of watching that Vesper Fins group post? haha |
TIvian
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Posted - 2003.11.03 13:57:00 -
[71]
Quote:
You know, I have never played a game where one powerful group can survive after it ****es off everyone. The only reason CA survives at this point is bad game mechanics for PvP. That's it. We'll have a warp to option soon and CA is toast. Its just that easy. I am going to start working as a senator to work out a arrangement with SA and FA to organize attacks against the CA. I think this latest idocy by sarkos and co. pretty much illustrates that there is no peace with CA, ever.
HA!!! this comming from a station hooker!! Everytime I see a CC or CoC....they be on the run and talking sh!t as they LEAVE system! and then when cornered run to the station and log.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) Teh Uber Asheron's Call Bunny Booty WTFPWNZ you!! |
Scragg
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Posted - 2003.11.03 14:10:00 -
[72]
Quote:
Sarkos should demand a ******* titan from CFS due to his patience with these dim *******s. Here, let me type it in big words for you CFS goombas:
THE CFS IS IN NO POSITION TO MAKE DEMANDS FOR PEACE. THIS IS YOUR SURRENDER.
Naturally I have no official say, but you should be thankful for that, else I would've told you to shove that peace treaty up your collective asses.
A true and lasting peace requires much more than eloquent words on a peace of paper. One of the main ingredients for peace is mutual respect.
If this is an example of the CA's attitude toward CFS we can assume this is just a glorified ceasefire while both sides regroup and rearm.
Scragg, Tyrell Corporation
Vice-Director Military Operations |
Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2003.11.03 14:28:00 -
[73]
Now scragg, be real for once, CA doesnt need to rearm, we have voted on this peace and if it comes, we will stand by it.
Dont try to spin the facts again and again.
So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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Rixeh
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Posted - 2003.11.03 14:58:00 -
[74]
Quote:
Am I the only one who gets a kick out of watching that Vesper Fins group post? haha
What's yer point you Evol goomba? Afraid that HOLY **** someone can spam and flame just as much as your corp? Rawr!
-----
Of war men will ask its outcome, not its cause.
-- Seneca
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Sedsiss
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Posted - 2003.11.03 15:04:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Sedsiss on 03/11/2003 15:17:31
Atleast our corp can back up our spam, Rix. Grow some balls and fight us if you think your that good. Or are you all tuckerd out from beating on miners and npc hunters? |
slayr
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:15:00 -
[76]
Sadly-its merely an excercise in futility. CFS lost its early on advantage (because of some heroic efforts on the part of a few individuals) due to the misguided efforts of out of work politians. You cannot form an effective government without taxation. You cannot fight a protracted war without strategists, and if you have them you **** well better support them. CFS leadership failed miserably on all these counts and re-electing leaders didn't help. CA is an evil empire- any who doubt that are mis-informed or mis-led. Any ceasefire is a farce, allowing the next attack to occur at a time and place of their choosing. Mad-dogs cannot be controlled, they must be killed. I have never been podded by CA or any of its pirate corps, this doesen't mean they haven't tried, I've been skilled and just plain lucky on several occasions. I have however become convinced of they're expasionist motives and pirating habits. We are a small corp, and have lost several battleships and gained a clone or two to these CA vermin. With the "truce" or "we suk CA butt" policy now being put into effect, we'll have to leave, as operations will simply become to dangerous. If CFS ever revises its charter, restructures and can field a creditable defense with a solid leader we might come back. Other-wise, we'll be gone and you'll be asked to join CA soon or die. Good luck, yer gonna need it.
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UnFriendly Fire
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Posted - 2003.11.03 18:57:00 -
[77]
Quote:
Edited by: Sedsiss on 03/11/2003 15:17:31
Atleast our corp can back up our spam, Rix. Grow some balls and fight us if you think your that good. Or are you all tuckerd out from beating on miners and npc hunters?
I never seen these guys in CFS space as a part of CA attacks.
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Graffix
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Posted - 2003.11.03 20:23:00 -
[78]
If there is peace between the two and trade commences between them, both the Fountain and Stain alliance will unwillingly see CFS as aiding the CA. Thats my opinion, but thats how I would see it.
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Gabriel Dumont
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Posted - 2003.11.04 14:11:00 -
[79]
I am not usually a man with few words, but this takes the cake..
A truce with pie rats?
SUCKERS!
In space, no one hears you scream...
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pooti
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Posted - 2003.11.04 18:31:00 -
[80]
Quote:
Quote:
Sarkos should demand a ******* titan from CFS due to his patience with these dim *******s. Here, let me type it in big words for you CFS goombas:
THE CFS IS IN NO POSITION TO MAKE DEMANDS FOR PEACE. THIS IS YOUR SURRENDER.
Naturally I have no official say, but you should be thankful for that, else I would've told you to shove that peace treaty up your collective asses.
A true and lasting peace requires much more than eloquent words on a peace of paper. One of the main ingredients for peace is mutual respect.
If this is an example of the CA's attitude toward CFS we can assume this is just a glorified ceasefire while both sides regroup and rearm.
There are just as many CFS pilots calling for a continuation of war. Have you read their forums? Honestly, I could care less at this point. For a while I really didn't want to fight with them - there was nothing to gain and there were a number of CFS pilots I was quite fond of.
Now, well..I've had enough of their silly threats, their whining, their lies...and all of their cool pilots defected! And in light of a recent event (and oh how I hope it becomes public), I'm really not gonna be upset when they screw up this NAP (and from the looks of it they're well on their way to doing so).
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