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Brother Todd
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Posted - 2006.10.20 23:07:00 -
[1]
A few minutes ago I almost got ganked by a blob of "pirates" (using a log-in trap even) and I couldn't help but wonder why anybody would play the game this way, is it really fun ganking a solo ship with 10+ BS for the crappy loot? I don't think so, it's griefplay but with a sad twist - killboard stat-padding.
It's been on my mind for ages, the asshattery that killmails bring with them. While we all love to get a nice killmail after a rewarding fight some people have turned those little packets of joy into horrible E-peen contests. Griefplay shouldn't be encouraged in any way (neither should E-peen contests) and I really think it's time to stop the killmails. The only reward you should need for a kill is the thrill of the fight.
Well, there really isn't much more to say ... the title really speaks for itself. Now discuss!
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Eilie
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.20 23:10:00 -
[2]
Although I may agree that killmails don't really have much point other than bragging rights, how do you know that those people just killed you for a killmail? Maybe you were in their space?
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DefJam101
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Posted - 2006.10.20 23:10:00 -
[3]
No, it's not fun, but that doesn't make it any less fair.
See, you can gank ships and stuff like Ginger Magician, but you can't brag about it, that's where he crosses the line into immaturity.
No such thing as greifplay, unless you are watching your sec you should not discriminate targets.
However, the willingness to kill ships that stand no chance of victory yet running when the chance of defeat is present isn't any less cowardly and immature...
...although you probably could've just done a barrel roll.
***
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.20 23:14:00 -
[4]
Log in traps are dirty and, in my opion, border dangerously close on an exploit.
Still, that aside, something should be pointed out- PvPing, in EVE, is not griefing. In other games, which enforce consentual PvP only, "griefing" is the term applied to people forcing people into PvP against their will, thus ruining their gameplay experience. EVE, however, is based on non-consnsual PvP- in no circumstances is PvP considered griefing. Ore theft is not griefing, pirates who roam low sec are not griefers, even High-Sec gankers are considered by CCP to be using an excepted tactic.
In fact, the only things I think have been legitimately accepted as griefing are things like bumping people in Empire for no reason, just to stop them warping. In other words, pointless harrasment.
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Brother Todd
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Posted - 2006.10.20 23:16:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Eilie
Although I may agree that killmails don't really have much point other than bragging rights, how do you know that those people just killed you for a killmail? Maybe you were in their space?
Well they didn't actually kill me, I managed to escape. And I don't think a solo cruiser is any threat in a 0.4 system drone complex... also they were all -10ish, those types tend not to have space to defend.
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Tarkan Kador
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.20 23:35:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Patch86
Still, that aside, something should be pointed out- PvPing, in EVE, is not griefing.
I agree. PvPing is not griefing. But posting killmails is a different matter than PvPing. One is playing the game, while the other is gloating outside of the game.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.21 00:08:00 -
[7]
Killmails are performance measures.
---------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
Pax Caldaria. |
loony thezoon
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Posted - 2006.10.21 00:15:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Killmails are performance measures.
OOH ER madam
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Tarkan Kador
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.21 00:24:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Killmails are performance measures.
Since when is n00b x's performance Tranquility's business?
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Calderio
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.21 00:33:00 -
[10]
you sir do not have the will of the warrior.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Listen to me on bob radio 00:00 eve time every friday and saturday
http://stream1.bobonair.com:8000/listen-broadband.aac.m3u
[img]http://img147.echo.cx |
DefJam101
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Posted - 2006.10.21 00:33:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Brother Todd
Originally by: Eilie
Although I may agree that killmails don't really have much point other than bragging rights, how do you know that those people just killed you for a killmail? Maybe you were in their space?
Well they didn't actually kill me, I managed to escape. And I don't think a solo cruiser is any threat in a 0.4 system drone complex... also they were all -10ish, those types tend not to have space to defend.
It's not a threat, its a target, and yes, gatesnipers are cowards and insults to pirates.
Most of us don't support gatesnipers because gatesnipers are just people who are afraid to lose...
...although you probably could've just done a barrel roll.
***
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Tarkan Kador
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.21 00:36:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Calderio
you sir do not have the will of the warrior.
How can you tell?
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copymonster
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Posted - 2006.10.21 01:00:00 -
[13]
I'm almost a year old player and have just started getting into pvp. I find the killboards very useful as a performance measure. I can see exactly how many ships I am losing and how many I am killing. It's also something for friends to see and give you a pat on the back or a hug :) A confidence booster.
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Coran Ordus
Ominous Corp
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.21 01:09:00 -
[14]
Killmails prevent the "oo, we killed 5 BS" "no you didnt" "yes we did" nonsense. They are a compromise between no info, and a eve-wide killboard which would just encourage e-peening.
Gankings happen. You were blown up because people like blowing things up. Or they want to control the complex. Or you might have been a scout. Or they just felt like it. Or they want to make a name for themselves. It was not griefing.
The "dont shoot me, I am no threat" approach does not work. It will not keep you safe. Whining about it wont help either. |
Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.10.21 01:38:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tarkan Kador
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Killmails are performance measures.
Since when is n00b x's performance Tranquility's business?
It shows e.g. your alliance that you or your corp is partitipating in alliance pvp or what has been killed and lost by the alliance. So agree to Jenny, because it's used that way in our alliance and many others.
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Pestillence
Chav-Scum
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Posted - 2006.10.21 01:59:00 -
[16]
A 10 bs login trap for a 3 month old noob corp player?
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Brother Todd
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Posted - 2006.10.21 02:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Coran Ordus
Killmails prevent the "oo, we killed 5 BS" "no you didnt" "yes we did" nonsense. They are a compromise between no info, and a eve-wide killboard which would just encourage e-peening.
Gankings happen. You were blown up because people like blowing things up. Or they want to control the complex. Or you might have been a scout. Or they just felt like it. Or they want to make a name for themselves. It was not griefing.
The "dont shoot me, I am no threat" approach does not work. It will not keep you safe. Whining about it wont help either.
First of all the "oo, we killed 5 BS" "no you didnt" "yes we did" nonsense is just that - nonesense. Why would anybody care for these arguements?
I was not blown up btw, read the post...
Quote:
The "dont shoot me, I am no threat" approach does not work. It will not keep you safe. Whining about it wont help either.
I never asked to be safe. I don't mind real pirates and I accept the risks of lowsec. The point is that there is a huge group of players that tend to blob any target for the sole reason of killboard padding. There is no ingame point to these ganks, they are RL e-peen contests and nobody needs them.
I might add that I wasn't whining about anything. I will say this though: you suck, read the post if you're going to reply... you suck.
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Tarkan Kador
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.21 02:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Plutoinum
It shows e.g. your alliance that you or your corp is partitipating in alliance pvp or what has been killed and lost by the alliance. So agree to Jenny, because it's used that way in our alliance and many others.
You don't need killboards for that though. The killmails will give you all the data you need.
If people want to use the killmails as a personal record, or as part of a corporation record, then I guess they can be used that way. You don't need to put up a killboard for that though.
The reason people put up killboards is because they want the information to be public and permanent.
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DefJam101
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Posted - 2006.10.21 02:24:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tarkan Kador
Originally by: Calderio
you sir do not have the will of the warrior.
How can you tell?
Because a true "warrior" sees not his accomplishments, nor the accomplishments of others, but only the journey and the fight it took to achieve them.
Or something like that.
...although you probably could've just done a barrel roll.
***
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Jallen
Sturmgrenadier Inc
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.10.21 02:31:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tarkan Kador
The reason people put up killboards is because they want the information to be public and permanent.
That's a very generalized statement. We (my corp) don't have our killboard publically available.
We use it for measuring pvp participation, and determining any awards (ribbons for our internal forums) that a member may have earned during a particular campaign. |
Artthana
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.21 02:36:00 -
[21]
Newb question here.
What is a log on trap?
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Khetchi
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Posted - 2006.10.21 02:42:00 -
[22]
You go to Lowsec space you take your chances.
Space with a securityrating of 0.4 and below is designed and set aside as PVP space. If you don't want people shooting at you, don't go there.
I don't care if 20 dreadnaughts, 30 battleships, 40 cruisers, and 50 frigates all fired on your cruiser at the same time, it's not griefing because this is what lowsec space is for. Now if they had done this in 1.0 space then you'd have a convincing arguement.
If you think you need to get even with them, write down their names and put a 50mil bounty on each of them... there are several corps that do nothing else except roam lowsec space collecting bounties...
But then we'd probably end up having them on the forums complaining about how bounties are "griefing" and trying to get that feature removed.
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Felysta Sandorn
Caldari
Murder of Crows
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Posted - 2006.10.21 02:44:00 -
[23]
A wise man once said to me "Don't fly a ship you can't afford to lose!"... If you lose a ship, no matter what the tactic, get over it and move on. If you just lost your 4bil navy raven with faction fittings that took you two years to get, it's no-one's fault but your own for flying it.
I've been part of every dirty pirate trick in the book, log in traps are one of the few ways you can catch people that run 4 accounts at the same time and do complexs with them all...
I don't know what ship you lost, but if it was all crappy loot as you say, then your insurance will cover the loss.
If you don't like to PvP, stay out of PvP areas, it's as simple as that. We killed a scorp pilot last night, who followed us around 10-15 jumps smack talking in local that he hates pirates. Fine, don't come in to our home system again!
_________________________________________________________
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F'nog
Amarr
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.21 05:44:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Calderio
you sir do not have the will of the warrior.
You quoted me! Good on you.
Originally by: DB Preacher
The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when backdoor bandit is in local.
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Samirol
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2006.10.21 05:51:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Khetchi
You go to Lowsec space you take your chances.
Space with a securityrating of 0.4 and below is designed and set aside as PVP space. If you don't want people shooting at you, don't go there.
I don't care if 20 dreadnaughts, 30 battleships, 40 cruisers, and 50 frigates all fired on your cruiser at the same time, it's not griefing because this is what lowsec space is for. Now if they had done this in 1.0 space then you'd have a convincing arguement.
If you think you need to get even with them, write down their names and put a 50mil bounty on each of them... there are several corps that do nothing else except roam lowsec space collecting bounties...
But then we'd probably end up having them on the forums complaining about how bounties are "griefing" and trying to get that feature removed.
as soon as you undock, you should expect to get shot. Thats the way eve is.
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar
LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2006.10.21 08:42:00 -
[26]
People hurt people, only the law stops us doing that in Real life (in most cases). Low-sec and 0.0 have been compaired to the Wild rest, however, even in the old west Honor was there. there is no honor in eve just chest beating. 10M SP or 1M SP makes no diffrence. they think they own that space, they defend it like there home, Would you do the same ?
--------------------
SoonÖ Copyright CCP.
90% of what I post is NOT to be takin in any serious way. |
Gabriel Karade
Office linebackers
Blood of the Innocents
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Posted - 2006.10.21 08:46:00 -
[27]
Killboards, aside from being performance yardsticks, are also highly useful tools for distributing replacement ships/modules from alliance funds to the pilots who deserve them.
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- Office Linebacker -
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.21 08:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Brother Todd
A few minutes ago I almost got ganked by a blob of "pirates" (using a log-in trap even) and I couldn't help but wonder why anybody would play the game this way, is it really fun ganking a solo ship with 10+ BS for the crappy loot? I don't think so, it's griefplay but with a sad twist - killboard stat-padding.
It's been on my mind for ages, the asshattery that killmails bring with them. While we all love to get a nice killmail after a rewarding fight some people have turned those little packets of joy into horrible E-peen contests. Griefplay shouldn't be encouraged in any way (neither should E-peen contests) and I really think it's time to stop the killmails. The only reward you should need for a kill is the thrill of the fight.
Well, there really isn't much more to say ... the title really speaks for itself. Now discuss!
You're actually wrong. Griefplay should be encouraged, because thats what war is like. Its not duels. I understand it feels unfair and annoying, but those players get their fun from doing it. Eve is a sandbox and everybody can do what they want really. Its the freedom that is unique for Eve. You dont have that in any other game out there. So you will see both the worst and the best sides of people here.
Just play the game and dont judge others for their playstyle. And while you are at it, dont judge people at all... :)
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Jouno
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.10.21 09:04:00 -
[29]
You know some people in this game actually like killing other people just for fun, thats what the killboards are for really to see who was the killing machine of the month so he can get his well deserved bragging rights 
On a side note tho eve is a pvp game, noone forced you to undock and travel through low sec.... next time bring along some friends and give those pirates a run for their money instaed of just whining on the forums 
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Old Geeza
The Retirement Home
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Posted - 2006.10.21 09:08:00 -
[30]
You were ganked. It happens to hundreds of people every day. The reason for it? Boosting killboard stats, lack of another gang to fight, the sheer hell of it, and fat loot. You need to remember that the only time they know if you have good loot or not is after they've killed you.
And was it definately a login trap? Did you see them all come online at the same time or did they just jump into the system when you weren't paying attention?
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