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DX12 (DirectX 12) engine?

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Enom Gwan The Raging Chickens 0	Posted - 2015.03.24 17:29:22 - [1] - Quote With the impending release of Dust 514 and with it an amazing display of the latest graphic technology available to the staff at CCP. Any likelihood of an upgrade to DX12? Would have a triple whammy of increased performance, improved graphics and also advertising for being one of the first MMO's with a DX12 engine.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 7738	Posted - 2015.03.24 17:44:06 - [2] - Quote You are aware that more than half the people who play this game still run on DX9... right? How did you start? The SP System IFW
Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 1198	Posted - 2015.03.24 17:48:49 - [3] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: You are aware that more than half the people who play this game still run on DX9... right? Doesn't mean they can't push towards dx12. Heck they might have too. Yes I know this will screw up Linux people a bit (including my own installation). Yaay!!!!
joecuster AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 27	Posted - 2015.03.24 18:06:17 - [4] - Quote 0/10
Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 1198	Posted - 2015.03.24 18:14:30 - [5] - Quote joecuster wrote: 0/10 I actually don't see why this is a 0 out of 10. It's a valid question. Yaay!!!!
Gosti Kahanid GANOR Deep Space Explorers GANOR INC. 93	Posted - 2015.03.24 18:41:33 - [6] - Quote At fanfest they answered to this question. As it stands now, there is no reason to upgrade to DX12. DX12 gives a lot of opportunities when you use a lot of different assets, but this is not the case in EvE. It would help to make look astroid-belts better, but thats it, and for that it is to much effort. You can-¦t just upgrade your grafik engine with a few clicks. And as ShahFluffers said, a lot of people are still using DX9. BTW, "impending release of Dust 514" did I miss something?
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 7740	Posted - 2015.03.24 19:11:24 - [7] - Quote I should also add 2 things... - yes, eventually EVE (and all the people who play it will have to upgrade). But it a slow process because it costs time and money. - believe it or not, some people care more about performance than "pretty." Upgrading to the latest "bleeding edge" tech pr software is often frought with problems and instability issues... which does not appeal to someone who just wants things to be stable How did you start? The SP System IFW
Nariya Kentaya Ministry of War Amarr Empire 1866	Posted - 2015.03.24 19:23:14 - [8] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: I should also add 2 things... - yes, eventually EVE (and all the people who play it will have to upgrade). But it a slow process because it costs time and money. - believe it or not, some people care more about performance than "pretty." Upgrading to the latest "bleeding edge" tech pr software is often frought with problems and instability issues... which does not appeal to someone who just wants things to be stable eh, pretty is still important, especially in a game that requires alot of travel, if things arent pretty enough that I go "oooh, wonder what it looks like over there", then im liable to alt tab while traveling, and that im told never ends well. honestly, scenery was the only redeeming feature of Elite Dangerous, made you want to fly around, because some of the things you could see were downright wild. not saying EVE needs that kind of diversity, but hurry up with the HD texture packs CCP
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 593	Posted - 2015.03.24 22:41:43 - [9] - Quote Gosti Kahanid wrote: BTW, "impending release of Dust 514" did I miss something? probably saw a trailer somewhere. Or staged gameplay footage. You know the e-3 kind of stuff advertised to show work being done. Often presented by marketing people not actual techs and engineers. You know...the people who would actually know better when release is more feasible. The darkside to this stuff being is most times the game is far from done and time actually burned as a diversion for this presentation material rather than actual game. Insert rant about the false advertising of this stuff as its either CG cutscene work and not based on gameplay. Or if (rarely the case) gameplay its cart on rails gameplay stuff. Go off the rails and head left instead of right as planned there be monsters out there and the code bugs do bite really hard lol.
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 593	Posted - 2015.03.24 23:50:20 - [10] - Quote Phoenix Jones wrote: ShahFluffers wrote: You are aware that more than half the people who play this game still run on DX9... right? Doesn't mean they can't push towards dx12. Heck they might have too. Yes I know this will screw up Linux people a bit (including my own installation). Years down the road maybe. Assuming like most many plans are based strategically. This usually years out. ANy PC use of 12 will be way off, besides CCP even. Xbox one will be your first use of it...and that will be months out as if a game is like 75% done they won't be recoding it. A framework can offer lots of enhancements.....after you learn to use them then optimize what your learned to use xbox one game on the verge of controlled beta testing and release....has a lower dx base and is optimized. You don't want to be changing this recipe with a markedly different framework. Frameworks and even languages upgrade from say 6.9 to 7.0 are not plug and play. Major version number changes are reserved for massive changes. Changes that can deprecate your old tricks...and need a fair amount of time to find new ones. Much to the chagrin of the 3.x zealots for example I can tell a new and green coder learn in python 2.x (around .6. or .7) and not be steering them in the wrong direction. This will get them paid for python gigs. Several years later many have not implemented code conversion to python 3.x. to include most (if not all, have not installed every flavor to test this so can't be sure) unix/linus/bsd OS makers. I run mac os, cent os and ubuntu....still kicking the 2.x. Ever seen how even basic 2.x python can diaf in version 3, you'd see why lol.

Zepheros Naeonis TinklePee 26	Posted - 2015.03.25 02:09:44 - [11] - Quote DX12 is Windows 10 only. Will still have to wait for newer hardware(GPU's) to even support it. It'll be just as dead in the water as DX11 was for the first couple years. DX11 with EVE is the most pointless thing ever anyways. Funny thing actually, every time there has been an update to the launcher that reset the options, I would find out while playing because the game would crash on me for no real reason. Check launcher options, oh look, DX11 is selected. Back to DX9, no more crashing. I've never crashed playing EVE on DX9. So take that how you will.
Enom Gwan The Raging Chickens 0	Posted - 2015.03.25 12:24:41 - [12] - Quote Great discussion guys, with some decent and very valid arguments/points. Yes in terms of technology, it will be bleeding edge and will only affect the top 10% or so. But you're missing the point in that going DX12 opens the portal for Xbox One and a much greater/larger market. One thing I wanted to expand on, the massive space battles (PVP) would the decreased CPU requirements help alleviate server side processing? Or would there still be a requirement to migrate more servers for these battles? And just a note, I originally bought EVE Online after seeing it at the London game expo many years ago and thinking wow that game looks absolutely amazing. I immediately went home, bought a new computer (read built a new computer) and downloaded the installer. Been hooked as a casual gamer ever since.
Nariya Kentaya Ministry of War Amarr Empire 1866	Posted - 2015.03.25 13:04:03 - [13] - Quote Enom Gwan wrote: Great discussion guys, with some decent and very valid arguments/points. Yes in terms of technology, it will be bleeding edge and will only affect the top 10% or so. But you're missing the point in that going DX12 opens the portal for Xbox One and a much greater/larger market. One thing I wanted to expand on, the massive space battles (PVP) would the decreased CPU requirements help alleviate server side processing? Or would there still be a requirement to migrate more servers for these battles? And just a note, I originally bought EVE Online after seeing it at the London game expo many years ago and thinking wow that game looks absolutely amazing. I immediately went home, bought a new computer (read built a new computer) and downloaded the installer. Been hooked as a casual gamer ever since. how in the seven frozen hells does DX12 open up XBone? in case you havent ehard 1) microsoft doesnt allow cross-platform, they would have their own EVE, which is not what EVE is about 2) its a console... trying to play EVE and how would swapping to DX12 decrease CPU requirements of large space battles? your still operating the same basic engien with the same limitations, and the same amount of data, doesnt matter if your using DX9,10,11, or 12, stackless python is stackless python, and 3000 people is still 3000 people
Barakach Caldari Provisions Caldari State 211	Posted - 2015.03.26 00:40:42 - [14] - Quote Gosti Kahanid wrote: At fanfest they answered to this question. As it stands now, there is no reason to upgrade to DX12. DX12 gives a lot of opportunities when you use a lot of different assets, but this is not the case in EvE. It would help to make look astroid-belts better, but thats it, and for that it is to much effort. You can-¦t just upgrade your grafik engine with a few clicks. And as ShahFluffers said, a lot of people are still using DX9. BTW, "impending release of Dust 514" did I miss something? Bah, cop out. I've been in those big nullsec blobs. 5 FPS, CPU and GPU are both idle. While DX11 has much more support for threading than prior versions, it's still not as good as DX12. Not a high priority, but they should be looking into updating their engine to handle threads better. It's a many year project, best start early.
Nardi wally Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.05.25 07:39:32 - [15] - Quote I think Eve online need a small refresh of its environment ... not really to create cross platform (Xbox) but just for update graphics. DX11 is a piece of s*** ... no optimizations, etc... but DX12 boost performance more than 300%. So why not enable DX12 in Eve ?
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 647	Posted - 2015.05.25 11:44:03 - [16] - Quote Nardi wally wrote: I think Eve online need a small refresh of its environment ... not really to create cross platform (Xbox) but just for update graphics. DX11 is a piece of s*** ... no optimizations, etc... but DX12 boost performance more than 300%. So why not enable DX12 in Eve ? psst...when software makers put out new tools they will always say 300% or some number boost. They then run very targeted code to prove it. When you see this stuff ask the vendor for source code and what it was run on. And test yourself. That takes extensive recoding to get chief. Damn near rebuilds. Here is what happens when new tools come out. First...you have to find out what they killed/deprecated. Then you have to find out what replaced it. Then you have to find what that replacement does to play in with the rest of your code if left in place. This is not type search string, grep with replace and voila you have chance all vars named ima_Var to var_Ima. This is why many have stayed at python 2.x for a while now as a related tangent. Python 3.x does amazing things. Sadly among those amazing things is it breaks even basic 2.x code in seconds flat.
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 728	Posted - 2015.05.25 12:11:01 - [17] - Quote I set eve to run on dx9, I can run it on dx11 but it's much slower and LOD on low shaders is terrible. Definitely don't need dx12 EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Nardi wally Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.05.25 14:02:08 - [18] - Quote Zan Shiro wrote: [quote=Nardi wally] psst...when software makers put out new tools they will always say 300% or some number boost. They then run very targeted code to prove it. This 300% is based on 3DMark and it was tested by a lot of serious High-tech magazines like Tom's Hardware, etc ... DX12 is based on mantle ... mantle works better than DX11. So why not DX 12 ? PS: I know synthetic tests (like 3DMark) doesn t give the same results than games tests but they are not quite different.
Hallvardr 67	Posted - 2015.05.25 21:44:57 - [19] - Quote ... and as far as hardware not supporting it ... a $50.00 evga card (picked at random) has DX12 support. No excuse there.
Shin Katsumoto Vulcan Industries Alternate Allegiance 6	Posted - 2015.05.25 22:25:35 - [20] - Quote Thumbs up OP! And maybe they can update the UI as well then. One can hope.

Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 647	Posted - 2015.05.26 05:06:32 - [21] - Quote Nardi wally wrote: Zan Shiro wrote: psst...when software makers put out new tools they will always say 300% or some number boost. They then run very targeted code to prove it. This 300% is based on 3DMark and it was tested by a lot of serious High-tech magazines like Tom's Hardware, etc ... DX12 is based on mantle (AMD API) ... mantle works better than DX11. So why not DX 12 ? PS: I know synthetic tests (like 3DMark) doesn t give the same results than games tests but they are not quite different. 3d mark tests for extremes a game usually does not reach often. And often times the scores are misleading as they are not real systems. They won't have your download app running in the backbground, mail app open as well. Also remember 3d mark has been used by both nvidia and amd for market spin. Juiced code has been known to be used in the past. And why not open GL if looking to change the world? It get them off proprietary software for starters. It could be the same amount of work either way, open gl could get them in a better spot to be honest all said and done. Hell valve/steam even offers iirc access to the tools they use for conversions. DX 12 is not even industry standard and won't be for quite sometime. It actually behoove CCP, and any game maker, to let this sit a good while and let new games who started this core development day 1 find the pitfalls. As mentioned new tools can make for new problems. And as mentioned before in this thread or others...there is the laptop market. We can't swap out video cards at the drop of a hat. Could say well screw the laptop user base. We are legion though....we are hard to ignore. This for example would be why we have seen a sharp rise in the indy game markets. Their stuff usually runs quite nice on laptops out the box. And well...they try and create innovative content. Something I'd like CCP continue to do...make the content and not retool for dx12 for god knows how long. Several things still broken or need ing attention for years gone by now.....lets fix them first as well they have seniority and the game being prettier to players like me is not going to satisfy us. Shiny lemon car fresh from the body shop is still a broke ass car. New paint job does not change that. Eve especially, many outstanding issues are not related to graphics in any way. It be spaghetti code from devs long ago no longer working there. This is the code I'd want fixed up, not dx code revisions.
Nardi wally Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.05.26 07:13:29 - [22] - Quote Why not openGL ? because 90% of laptops are sold with Windows and using DX ... :p But yeah I hope one day all the game will be coded for DX and openGL. And in this case why not Vulkan ? It s also an API (future of openGL) based on mantle and works like DX12 (low-level API) I dont understand your post because you can add DX12 without removing DX9 and DX11. What s the problem ? Bugs must be fix first, I m aware of that but you can t only do that. Why ? Players can t wait for that kind of patch because it s too long for them. And don t really see changes.
omgdutch2005 FinFleet Northern Coalition. 9	Posted - 2015.06.26 02:15:49 - [23] - Quote so... what about it? DX12 will maybe Windows 10 only... does it matter? no.. why? well everyone with Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 is getting a free upgrade to Windows 10 if their Windows version is legit!!! Plus its a big PR thingy... https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2015/05/12/more-mantle-games-are-on-the-way Jump on the train while its about to leave... heck.... lots of big game companies supporting mantle... (and that is only AMD R9 (and newer) series) So join in.... +1 for DX12 support please... @CCP http://developer.amd.com/mantle/ just sign up and have a go at it!!!
Lugh Crow-Slave 1148	Posted - 2015.06.26 05:33:03 - [24] - Quote Phoenix Jones wrote: joecuster wrote: 0/10 I actually don't see why this is a 0 out of 10. It's a valid question. because there is no need to do it right now the dev time would be better spent else where Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
Barrogh Habalu Forever Winter Absolute Zero. 885	Posted - 2015.06.26 06:18:33 - [25] - Quote Nariya Kentaya wrote: honestly, scenery was the only redeeming feature of Elite Dangerous, made you want to fly around, because some of the things you could see were downright wild. not saying EVE needs that kind of diversity, but hurry up with the HD texture packs CCP Tbh it requires more "landscape" design than technology, at least when it comes to EVE. Sometimes I feel it needs more stuff near gates. I don't think it's necessary to switch to dx12 in order to make it look better. Updating old scenery pieces would make much more differences. And yeah, it's been like 2 years since CCP said that they have some assets they can use to make hi res texture pack. Sad to think that it's probably got shelved. Nariya Kentaya wrote: 1) microsoft doesnt allow cross-platform... Can you elaborate on that one? AFAIK KI is going to be cross-platform (between xbone and PC), as in: cross play and cross buy. In fact, it's not even real cross-platform, just different rigs that both run Win10. More on topic: what exactly do you people want to change visually and why do you need DX12 for that, that's the question.
Amarisen Gream Divine Demise 83	Posted - 2015.06.26 07:08:43 - [26] - Quote Personally I wanna see a move toward more open source options. Mac user here and I won't buy a windows machine or install that virus on my overpriced desktop made of laptop parts, that has a great visual looks on the exterior and a much better OS (still needs some help on the gaming end, but getting better). ;) xoxo Amarisen Gream
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 680	Posted - 2015.06.26 08:44:46 - [27] - Quote omgdutch2005 wrote: so... what about it? DX12 will maybe Windows 10 only... does it matter? no.. why? well everyone with Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 is getting a free upgrade to Windows 10 if their Windows version is legit!!! ! When a company takes this kind of stance it better have a few things in place. 1. A product that has no replacement option or one that will be missed enough by clients to have them say okay we will upgrade 2. It should have a (projected) market that makes this a wise business move to cover those who do leave. lets talk about 1. I only see this stuff in high end(read high priced) server based software. Much as I would love to go linux servers for some of my network windows servers functions that is not happening. So various vendors can say make it this this and this spec or pound sand and we say sir yes sir. Eve tries this trick...I am not stuck with it in anyway. It is not essential like say my enterprise wide AV/AS management solution. lets talk about 2: You are assuming because the upgrade will be free all will take it. Very bad assumption. even apple with its switch to free OS upgrades cannot get 100% upgrade success. Its a smaller market, should be easier to reach 100, or even 90 which it hasn't (last numbers I saw it never even broke 90%). Linux as well. I stll run earlier Ubuntu LTS versions now halfway into their 5 year cycle at home. No new features added of importance to me (good stuff added...I just have no use for it). Many years in IT has taught if it ain't broke, don't fix it. M$ and CCP know full well not all legit owners will upgrade. Many for valid reasons. "legacy apps" issue usually a top 1. You'd like to maybe upgrade. But you have the apps that aren't compatible. can be some time for that to happen. Break 5 go to apps to run eve...not the smart move for many. Not all also want to run compatibility tool to bypass either. These are the clients ccp needs to factor in. Not all rush on every OS. Want the largest base possible to make sales from you need to accommodate them as well.
Osaka Takawaki Order and Prosperity 1	Posted - 2015.07.30 15:13:56 - [28] - Quote Now that I'm on Windows 10 and seeing how well DX12 performs compared to DX11, I think there's no reason not to implement it. It's not that hard and it ends up giving players better graphics and better performance.
Haatakan Reppola Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 70	Posted - 2015.07.30 15:43:07 - [29] - Quote Osaka Takawaki wrote: Now that I'm on Windows 10 and seeing how well DX12 performs compared to DX11, I think there's no reason not to implement it. It's not that hard and it ends up giving players better graphics and better performance. Not that hard, then please give us a link to the game you upgraded from DX9 or 11 to 12 Performance boost would only be for people with DX12 ready machines/OS, while a large part of EVE players barely have DX11 ready machines
Osaka Takawaki Order and Prosperity 1	Posted - 2015.07.31 03:58:23 - [30] - Quote Haatakan Reppola wrote: Osaka Takawaki wrote: Now that I'm on Windows 10 and seeing how well DX12 performs compared to DX11, I think there's no reason not to implement it. It's not that hard and it ends up giving players better graphics and better performance. Not that hard, then please give us a link to the game you upgraded from DX9 or 11 to 12 Performance boost would only be for people with DX12 ready machines/OS, while a large part of EVE players barely have DX11 ready machines Do you have any source for that statistic?

Rawketsled Generic Corp Name 247	Posted - 2015.07.31 04:55:44 - [31] - Quote Ask the CSM to get that information from CCP.
Lu Ziffer Jelly Baby Corporation Fidelas Constans 33	Posted - 2015.07.31 07:43:09 - [32] - Quote Enom Gwan wrote: Great discussion guys, with some decent and very valid arguments/points. Yes in terms of technology, it will be bleeding edge and will only affect the top 10% or so. But you're missing the point in that going DX12 opens the portal for Xbox One and a much greater/larger market. One thing I wanted to expand on, the massive space battles (PVP) would the decreased CPU requirements help alleviate server side processing? Or would there still be a requirement to migrate more servers for these battles? And just a note, I originally bought EVE Online after seeing it at the London game expo many years ago and thinking wow that game looks absolutely amazing. I immediately went home, bought a new computer (read built a new computer) and downloaded the installer. Been hooked as a casual gamer ever since. They will make a Direct X12 engine but it will be not before 2020. The market is big enough no need for console fans. Fleet flight lag is a result of the software that runs the solar systems it was written in a modified version of Stackless Python with no multitherading capability and you can not use more then one processor at a time. They tried to fix this by using 5.8GHz battleserver processsors but it is not enough and there is a limit in physics which limits processing speed and there has been no advance in 15years. So the only real performance gain is rewriting this very complicated part of EVE and CCP will do it but they want to do it fture proof so it will take a few more years. There are a few videos on EVE server software and how fleetfights are handeled and there interaction with the database watch them to get a better understanding. The list of possible awesome ideas for EVE which CCP has considered is long but they need time and ISK to make it real. Directx 12 is so far away you should forget about it and be happy when it arrives.
Osaka Takawaki Order and Prosperity 1	Posted - 2015.07.31 10:20:04 - [33] - Quote Yes I do agree that DX12 is less important than the core functioning of the game. But that said, CCP are a clever team, no doubt they will deliver on the never ending task of improving the game.
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 717	Posted - 2015.07.31 15:43:51 - [34] - Quote Osaka Takawaki wrote: Now that I'm on Windows 10 and seeing how well DX12 performs compared to DX11, I think there's no reason not to implement it. It's not that hard and it ends up giving players better graphics and better performance. What game(s) are you running coded with DX12? Or are lhese "legacy" dx based games just being backwards compatible in dx12? Oddly enough DX is the only place M$ gives backwards compatibility. I wished they'd do it for .net framework. Really I do....makes server installs fun for older apps. If not coded in it your gains from Windows 10 are very likely due to the OS. In my readings about windows 10 windows reduced a lot of bloat at startup. IF the NT kernel is not firing up as much process wise that means your CPU to give to other processes. IE...your non dx12 game. Amazing things happen when you cut out OS bloat. This is why CLI only servers are liked for many backend support scenarios. it kills this process bloat real quickly. Amongst other bloats.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 6	Posted - 2015.08.02 10:18:56 - [35] - Quote DX12 will probably show up over the next few years, cause CCP likes keeping EVE nice and shiny and current. You won't notice the difference between 11 and 12 unless you were to match an underpowered CPU with a powerful GPU or two, at least not right away. OpenGL is, for practical purposes, a mess, because everyone has their own implementation of the library: AMD, NVidia, Intel all have one, plus there are some OpenGL libraries from some more minor ones which random old laptops use, and people do use those. Oh, and when we get into cross platform, there's NVidia/Nouveau and Catalyst/Radeon (closed/open-source) and whatever OS X is using, and they're not perfectly standards-compliant, so not every call does exactly what you think it will and things will look weird. With DirectX, you have one version of the library everyone targets: Microsoft's (or, in open-source world, WineD3D and GalliumNine). Microsoft's is messy because they've got all these exceptions for this or that app to behave itself. A signature :o
babyblue Volition Cult The Volition Cult 1	Posted - 2015.08.19 19:19:51 - [36] - Quote I'm not really necroing this thread... So, CCP are going to move their rendering engine over to a next generation API (of course they will ... I know how a graphics engineer's mind works). I'm wondering if they're already working with D3D 12 or whether they're waiting in line like the rest of us for the Khronos effort (Vulkan). Or even ... an abstract API capable of being injected with either Metal, Vulkan or D3D 12? Vulkan is the logical choice because D3D 12 is Windows 10 only. I've seen some pretty fantastic things at SIGGRAPH '15 btw.
Sentamon Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 2285	Posted - 2015.08.19 19:52:48 - [37] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: You are aware that more than half the people who play this game still run on DX9... right? EVE Fanfest 2012: Nvidia Tessellation Demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7oaz8mWug this is why we can't have nice things ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
Haatakan Reppola Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 72	Posted - 2015.08.19 20:24:30 - [38] - Quote Osaka Takawaki wrote: Haatakan Reppola wrote: Osaka Takawaki wrote: Now that I'm on Windows 10 and seeing how well DX12 performs compared to DX11, I think there's no reason not to implement it. It's not that hard and it ends up giving players better graphics and better performance. Not that hard, then please give us a link to the game you upgraded from DX9 or 11 to 12 Performance boost would only be for people with DX12 ready machines/OS, while a large part of EVE players barely have DX11 ready machines Do you have any source for that statistic? You forgot to link the game YOU updated for DX9 or 11 to 12, since you know its "not that hard"... I know there were talks about people not being able to play the last time the min requirements changed, its safe to assume they have not all upgraded to DX12 machines. If im not totaly wrong, that is also one of the major reasons we still have DX9 client. I would be very interested in seeing some up to date statistics on what players can run, but only offical CCP posters can give a statistic that all sides belive.
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 739	Posted - 2015.08.20 01:43:16 - [39] - Quote babyblue wrote: Vulkan is the logical choice because D3D 12 is Windows 10 only. I've seen some pretty fantastic things at SIGGRAPH '15 btw. A developer has to code for supported versions of OS' out there. Windows 7 or 8 is not end of life yet. Won't be for a while. to get the most income in you need the broadest population to pull from. Just because windows 10 is free does not mean all with take it up. Even apple does not have 100% acceptance and they started this free update stuff long before M$. Since on apple, CCP only a few years back made one version of Mac OS the base standard guaranteed supported. They were not trend setters here. Apple was not supporting most the then cut off versions. And it was the accepted safe limit most devs of other applications were doing. When the industry and its even its maker is making cut offs...it makes sense. Apple off the hook for support....so are you.
babyblue Volition Cult The Volition Cult 1	Posted - 2015.08.20 18:43:06 - [40] - Quote Nardi wally wrote: I dont understand your post because you can add DX12 without removing DX9 and DX11. What s the problem? If the engine isn't refactored, I don't see the benefit of having DX12 (or Vulkan, Mantle, Metal). And doing it a new way would make it harder to design an API for all versions. I mean it's unlikely a DirectX 9 engine is threading draw call dispatch. It's more likely that it will be with DirectX 11, but if you're supporting both 9 and 11 you probably aren't using that feature. You don't gain much if any performance from threading the renderer in 11 in any case. That's why I think Vulkan would be the logical choice assuming AMD, NVIDIA and Intel are all supporting it for Windows 7 and 8.

Merrc The Scope Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2015.08.24 22:48:08 - [41] - Quote Could set up a single station on a test server with a few ship types (all coded in DX12) -people with Windows 10 (and the appropriate cards) log in and have at it. Also I wonder if large battles would be helped by the 3D Xpoint Optane memory, the faster that single thread gets completed the faster it moves to the next... all interesting food for thought (haha some devs are waiting for their own shiny things
Justin Cody Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 306	Posted - 2015.08.25 02:37:45 - [42] - Quote it is a good question but they've barely pushed DX11 intot he current engine. There is no DX12 hardware out there.
Rawketsled Generic Corp Name 262	Posted - 2015.08.25 03:35:01 - [43] - Quote Justin Cody wrote: it is a good question but they've barely pushed DX11 intot he current engine. There is no DX12 hardware out there. Except you're wrong. AMD R9's and 900-Series Nvidia cards all talk to DX12.
Jarvis Wellington 47th Space Militia 0	Posted - 2015.09.11 16:59:32 - [44] - Quote I agree that the technology is quite new... However with the benefits of a low level API I would say it's at least worth taking a look at and see if it makes a difference in game (mainly for large battles). Another thing EVE is getting a little stagnant regarding the way it looks and feels. With games such as Elite: Dangerous and the impending release of Star Citizen, CCP needs to pretty things up or make areas seem more lively. I am talking about having real walking in FULL stations... And having more NPC ships flying about in high security space so it seems like its more populated especially around hubs. They are part of an empire after all... It should feel like it. If DX12 and its lower overhead allows this, then I am all for it! CCP is/was always in the forefront of new technology and I don't think this should be any different. Windows 10 has been release and is pretty much stable (good job Microsoft for a decent release... for once). NVidia and ATI cards are compatible with DX12 to an extent going back a few generations. Now I know that 3D Mark is not exactly realistic at times but what I found interesting is the API Overhead Feature Test... It's suppose to compare the overhead of DX11 and DX12. If DX12 makes ANYWHERE NEAR the difference it does in that test, well we are going to be in for a real treat in the future! And I hope that EVE can take advantage of that!
killer persian Viziam Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2015.09.11 21:59:53 - [45] - Quote joecuster wrote: 0/10 Praise be to you for your wisdom.
Lyla Blade Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.09.27 16:23:05 - [46] - Quote I agree. I think it's time for a upgrade to dx12, think about it the battle of B-R5RB. There would be so much less server lag it will increase the rate of polygons. If eve is using dx9 now I am sure you would see a increase of at least 35% game performance if it swapped to dx12.
Celthric Kanerian Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation 475	Posted - 2015.09.27 16:56:35 - [47] - Quote Enom Gwan wrote: With the impending release of Dust 514 . That made me chuckle.
Atum Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge 121	Posted - 2015.10.08 13:47:36 - [48] - Quote Lyla Blade wrote: I agree. I think it's time for a upgrade to dx12, think about it the battle of B-R5RB. There would be so much less server lag it will increase the rate of polygons. If eve is using dx9 now I am sure you would see a increase of at least 35% game performance if it swapped to dx12. Would you mind explaining to the class how client side graphics will improve server-side performance?
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2320	Posted - 2015.10.08 14:09:53 - [49] - Quote Lyla Blade wrote: I agree. I think it's time for a upgrade to dx12, think about it the battle of B-R5RB. There would be so much less server lag it will increase the rate of polygons. If eve is using dx9 now I am sure you would see a increase of at least 35% game performance if it swapped to dx12. The delay in battle like B-R5RB has nothing to do with the graphic engine and which graphic API it use. You could re-run the whole battle on a lient computer from 3 millenia after current days and it would still lag because the slowness is server side. No amount of hardware or code optimisation on the client side will ever change that. If the server can't keep up, it will be slow no matter what you are using to display it.


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