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HP increase = goodbye bombers. Please fix this!

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Merin Ryskin Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.22 00:24:00 - [1] Stealth bombers, already a very underpowered class, are going to be completely destroyed by such a large HP increase. They're completely dependent on their huge alpha strike to kill the target before it can either warp off or fight back. With this ability crippled, the ship just has no role. So it's time for some changes. The first and most important thing is to decide what role is appropriate for them. Here are the options (both good and bad): 1) Make them into the equivalent of real-world stealth bombers, strategic weapons aimed at crippling the enemy's infrastructure. In EVE, this would mean making them into POS killers. While a sudden end to POS-spam wars would be nice, this just really isn't practical... the POS owners would never accept a cheap frigate that can wipe out their entire POS investment. 2) Make them into anti-battleship and/or anti-capital weapons, taking "bomber" to mean "big-target killer". Unfortunately, this suffers from the same problem as the first possible role. To be effective stealth ships, they would have to be able to kill a battleship before it can react, or they have zero chance of survival/success. And the battleship pilots would be (probably justifiably) upset at the idea of a 20 million ISK frigate doing that to their 100 million ISK battleship. The battleship pilots will never let bombers get enough alpha strike to do the job, so all this will produce is a lot of dead bomber pilots. 3) Keep their current design, but focus the improvements on their "frigate with very un-frigate-like weapons and abilities" side. Essentially, make them into gang-support ships, providing high DPS from insane range. Their cloaking would become a secondary ability, and stay exactly as it is now. To do this, a moderate HP and/or resist increase would probably be justified, as they would be spending significant time un-cloaked. But more importantly, their mass and agility would have to be SIGNIFICANTLY improved. And no argument allowed, thier warp distance would have to be increased to match the other frigates. If you want them to see use in frigate groups, they have to be able to keep up with the rest of the group. 4) Keep their current design, but focus on the stealth aspect. Between lack of covert ops cloak, presence in local, presence in the overview, etc, bombers are far from stealthy. The easiest solution (assuming the rumored local changes actually are made) would be to give them the covert ops cloak. Other, more complicated, options might include tiny (below interceptor) sig radius, removal from overview, etc. Or to be truly evil, all of the above, and a jumpdrive to bypass all those gate camps. This would give them the ability to actually sneak around where the enemy doesn't want them, and catch the most vulnerable targets. They already have the combat ability for this role, but their lack of stealth means even if they somehow survive the gatecamps, their targets will run away long before the bomber can get into position for the kill. 5) Massively enhance their alpha strike. Fairly simple, give them a role bonus of huge damage (500% or more), but a matching rate of fire increase. Their overall DPS remains the same, but they gain an alpha strike that can be a threat to even cruisers. 6) Give them an explosion velocity increase to match their radius bonus. Again, fairly simple... at the moment, interceptors (and any decently fast frigate) can just ignore bombers, as the precision bonus is only applied to one aspect of damage evasion. Give them the velocity bonus, and now they're frigate killers, but very GOOD frigate killers. The nice thing about #5 and #6 is they can be done in addition to any other changes, without changing the role at all.
Leshrac Shepherd Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.22 00:28:00 - [2] Think about it for a second, tuxford or whoever is in charge of this hp boost is introducing it in order to make combats longer. What makes you think he will increase the alpha strike of those ships so that they can still volley their targets? that's exactly what he wants to avoid with this change.
Merin Ryskin Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.22 00:36:00 - [3] Originally by: Leshrac Shepherd Think about it for a second, tuxford or whoever is in charge of this hp boost is introducing it in order to make combats longer. What makes you think he will increase the alpha strike of those ships so that they can still volley their targets? that's exactly what he wants to avoid with this change. Simple, it's possible to increase combat length overall while still having a few alpha strike ships. Increasing HP while also increasing alpha strike on the few specialized ships just means dying quickly becomes a rarer event, rather than the majority of fights. And you're missing the point... if these changes go through without a matching bomber change of some kind, if people are so obsessivly afraid of the alpha strike concept that they have to remove ALL of it, bombers become a USELESS class. Their ONLY asset right now is the ability to kill a target in one shot, before it can react. If making them better in alpha strike is so horrible, that just means OTHER changes are needed. I've even given some options in that post, besides "+500% damage, +500% rate of fire".
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.10.22 00:38:00 - [4] Why do we need even more frigate killers?
JustBlaze	Posted - 2006.10.22 00:47:00 - [5] stealth bombers are inty killers.
Leshrac Shepherd Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.22 00:49:00 - [6] Originally by: Merin Ryskin And you're missing the point... if these changes go through without a matching bomber change of some kind, if people are so obsessivly afraid of the alpha strike concept that they have to remove ALL of it, bombers become a USELESS class. Their ONLY asset right now is the ability to kill a target in one shot, before it can react. It might be you who is missing the point, ganking a target in one single shot before it can react is quite near the definition of what the devs have been trying to avoid with the past boosts to general hp, passive hardeners, damage controls, plates and extenders, and now the proposed future reboosts to HP and plates/extenders. It doesn't matter much really, as stealth bombers are pretty close to completely useless right now, and have been for as far as they have existed, so chances about the devs fixing them anytime soon are skimp, hp boost or not.
Merin Ryskin Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.22 00:49:00 - [7] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 22/10/2006 00:49:17 Originally by: JustBlaze stealth bombers are inty killers. Have you actually flown one? The signiature radius of the interceptor isn't so bad, but bombers don't get a matching explosion velocity bonus. All the interceptor has to do is turn on its mwd, and suddenly it's taking .1 damage per missile. Thats not even going to break an amarr interceptor's passive shield regen before it gets in close and rips apart the bomber. This only gets worse in the new patch, since the bomber's ability to one-shot the interceptor before it gets moving (catching the pilot unaware, etc) is significantly reduced.
JustBlaze	Posted - 2006.10.22 00:50:00 - [8] bomber has hidden bonus to smaller targets. they kill intys easy pie
Kyoko Sakoda Caldari The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2006.10.22 01:00:00 - [9] Originally by: JustBlaze bomber has hidden bonus to smaller targets. they kill intys easy pie You're assuming that the interceptors will be stupid enough to get within web range. 99.9% of inty pilots have wised up. Bombers should be cruiser and battleship killers when found in groups. This is exactly what they aren't.
Molten Platypii Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.22 01:00:00 - [10] Stealth bombers are wee bits of toilet paper rubbing themselves on the gravelly ass of space. Give them sig reduction bonus so they are truly 'stealthy'. Make them harder to hit will make them somewhat more usable.
JustBlaze	Posted - 2006.10.22 01:04:00 - [11] gimme my 8 slot t2 torp launching cloaked navy raven.
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.10.22 01:11:00 - [12] Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda Originally by: JustBlaze bomber has hidden bonus to smaller targets. they kill intys easy pie You're assuming that the interceptors will be stupid enough to get within web range. 99.9% of inty pilots have wised up. Bombers should be cruiser and battleship killers when found in groups. This is exactly what they aren't. No The whole paradigm is a mess. If bombers are going to be zerg ships they cant be t2 ships with expensive modules. Im not sure what to do with the bombers at this point but we need is a T1 ship thats fairly fast with low armor no cloak and shoots torps with no bonus to small ships. A real torpedo bomber that is cheap but only useful in numbers and against big ships and is vulnerable to frigs. Wherever you went - here you are.
RichoDemus Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2006.10.22 01:58:00 - [13] Originally by: JustBlaze bomber has hidden bonus to smaller targets. they kill intys easy pie congratulations, you win the prize for commenting on game mechanics when you infact have no clue Proud member of the Eve-University
Stuart Price Caldari Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2006.10.22 02:19:00 - [14] My personal view on this is that they should be STEALTH bombers. The following changes would be a decent fix for now: 1. Allow them the use of a covops cloak. 2. Reduce their sig radius a LOT. In RL stealth aircraft work by minimising their radar/IR profiles as much as possible with tricks such as radar-absorbing coating, angular airframes, engine shielding etc so it's not too much of a push to suggest that they would do the same in Eve. Now if it were entirely up to me I would do the following: 1. Lower the sig radius a little, still allow a covops cloak. 2. Invent a new weapon type: Bombs. They would be VERY short range missiles (around 25km) but would do massive damage to large, slow moving targets. Or just upgrade them to torps adding a rof/range penalty along with a damage bonus. 3. Allow them to lock WHILE CLOAKED. If they have a passive targeter fitted it means they STAY cloaked but have a target lock. What happens now is you have a ship that can sneak up to a battleship or other large target, lock it, uncloak, unleash a damaging volley onto it and (hopefully) recloak before the battleship has time to lock the bomber. Secondary result is that battleships now require escorts. An inty, destroyer or AF could merrily toast a bomber before it could escape but unescorted battleships would be in trouble from a gang of bombers. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
Gorion Wassenar Caldari Tsurokigaarai Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.10.22 02:36:00 - [15] The new change will hose this class. The missles should be able to hit while cloaked. ------------------ CEO of TKI
ragewind Caldari VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.22 02:58:00 - [16] yep the bombas need some major fixing and this new patch will really screw them over so that is now a one trick ship class without its trick ------------------------------------ Dragon the patch to optimise EVE. Welcome to Tranquillity the optimised snail Please wait 4 minuets to jump war targets are 2 seconds away.
Merin Ryskin Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.22 03:14:00 - [17] Originally by: JustBlaze bomber has hidden bonus to smaller targets. they kill intys easy pie sigh Look, fly the damn ship before you comment on it. Stealth bombers do NOT get a bonus to explosion velocity, so the interceptor can easily negate 99% of the damage by turning on its MWD and flying fast enough. Sure, a bomber can catch an afk (or webbed) interceptor pilot easily, but against a halfway aware opponent, the bomber is dead.
Pottsey Gallente Acme Shipping Inc	Posted - 2006.10.22 08:01:00 - [18] Edited by: Pottsey on 22/10/2006 08:03:48 ôStealth bombers, already a very underpowered class, are going to be completely destroyed by such a large HP increase.ö The change isnÆt going hurt all Stealth Bombers so its not going make them completely useless in fact its going make my good tank on my Nemesis even stronger. I might have to do an extra volley to kill my target but I will be able to tank more then long enough for that most of the time. Stealth Bomber have a hidden bonus to explosive radius. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Lienzo	Posted - 2006.10.22 08:18:00 - [19] It's also nerfing the destroyers vs. inties too. Destroyers don't need hp. They need a locktime boost. It's actually quite difficult for a destroyer squad to down an inty in most non conceptual, or in situ arrangements. The inties can usually warp, get out of range, get out of a bubble, or start killing off some of the destroyers before they are ever in any real danger. I imagine it works similarly for the stealth bombers. I don't see why the bombers remained prenerfed after the release of Recon cruisers. Sometimes I wish agility and velocity had a more adversarial relationship. Like make the least maneuverable ships have the highest peak velocity, but also the slowest acceleration rate. Battleships for example might travel 3km/s, but might only accelerate at 1/50th their current rate and with a more linear curve. To preserve the intercepting role, we could make "warp to" an option for ships, but modify it according to a function of the (target sig or engine size)-(warper's sig or engine size). A larger number means a lot less time to get a fix on the destination so same size ships would have a hard time closing on one another, and larger ships could almost never warp in on smaller ships. Mods like inertial dampers or engine overdrives could dramatically swap a ships agility/velocity stats.
Ejderdisi	Posted - 2006.10.22 10:16:00 - [20] It's totally true that bombers will become useless with patch. And making combat longer is not a good excuse for stealth bombers as their only role is making quick kills from range against t1 frigs and haulers (mostly out of warp scram range) and as they are now and (will be) too fragile for prolonged fights . (They are not designed for slug-fest fights they are really designed for short fights from distance with alpha strikes by CCP) They are nearly as expensive as interceptors and AF's and their cloaking devices are insanely expensive though they are t1... And they have even now too specific role in game not like interceptors roaming 0.0 or AFs boldly attacking BSs or ratting in true -1 systems. I havent yet fly a bomber but I need only 7 days more in skill training. I learned that they are very hard to survive ships but I thought I would really enjoy the stealhy u-boat style game. And then after the patch I understood that what I can only accomplish in a bomber would be sending 1 aplha strike to a t1 frig and get the hell out of there as I may not survive against a mostly 300k ship and t1 gear or he may use his t1 AB or MWD to glide to gate and jump to other system. Hmm. We need a boost. Urgently. But tbh codes must be written long before this topic so maybe I should give up bombers for now. I might enyoj the long hours waiting on a gate cloaked looking for a solo frigate or solo hauler... but I think that ship type is dead... If anybody can create a better tactic to use bombers or carve a new niche for it plz tell us now.
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.22 10:31:00 - [21] TBH i wonder what is the logic behind stealth bombers ??? The idea itself is very different than the application we have here , if i am gettign this right then they are supposed to uncloack and deliver a massive strike just like the usual bombers in any scenario in RL or sci fi. I think 2 or 3 of them should be able to insta pop a larger target not the other way round sicne their defintion implyis that they aitn for comabt or manouvering just to delvier a high payload . As for the bombers we have here are only good for poping t1 frigs if they are dumb enough to stay there , so with the HP increase they wont even be bale to do that so i realy wodner what good will they be for , i only got 1 bomber and will prob never use it untill i see a real potential of just flying a stealthy ship with no other offensive capabilites that does have a role. "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
Grape Juice	Posted - 2006.10.22 10:34:00 - [22] I just sold my bomber... getting a Crow soon. Someone call me when they figure out what the hell they're doing with the bombers.
Kojiami	Posted - 2006.10.22 13:30:00 - [23] Allow them to use recon stealth. Allow them to use special cruise missles witch explode in AOE on impact, like a smartbomb. Boost the damage of these missles by 20% per skill level on them all. The smartbomb-missles have the same damage like their normal cruise missle counterparts, but do the AOE thing. At V, they can carpetbomb an area around a ship for heavy damage.
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.22 13:39:00 - [24] Originally by: Leshrac Shepherd It might be you who is missing the point, ganking a target in one single shot before it can react is quite near the definition of what the devs have been trying to avoid with the past boosts to general hp, Ahhh in otherwords the different ship classes isnt like piees of chess anymore where one class performs worse/better against a different class. EVe used to be unforgiving, what ever happebed to that? A stealth bomber should be able to pop lesser targets in one volley because they are made out of paper. -------------------- Tuxford you broke my beloved EVE
Saltire System-Lords	Posted - 2006.10.22 13:51:00 - [25] sounds like the OP wants a ship to suit his personal role. Not gonna happen mate. If u wanna be mr ninja sneak about 'hit the enemy in their soft underbellies' and all the other BS that goes with that then buy an inty or a vaggabond. Otherwise STFU
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.22 14:08:00 - [26] Edited by: Godar Marak on 22/10/2006 14:07:54 Originally by: Saltire sounds like the OP wants a ship to suit his personal role. If u wanna be mr ninja sneak about 'hit the enemy in their soft underbellies' and all the other BS that goes with that then buy an inty or a vaggabond. WARNING, IRONY OVERLOAD! So basically what you are saying that if you want a ninja ship buy an interceptor and not a ships thats MADE FOR CLOAKING?!?!? -------------------- Tuxford you broke my beloved EVE
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.10.22 14:17:00 - [27] HP increase = goodbye bombers? That implys that they are somewhate useful now.
Ejderdisi	Posted - 2006.10.22 14:26:00 - [28] SBs are designed to attack haulers and frigs and get kills. And no! Inties and HACs are for harassement and heavy assaults respectively. But Stealth Bombers are for stealth bombing. This ship type's niche will gonna break. Fix it someway! I want enemy haulers and miners get afraid of my t2 ship. Don't fall in inresistable laughter as they see me uncloak in belts and gates.
Brem Watson Caldari Nexus-6	Posted - 2006.10.22 14:41:00 - [29] Getting rid of my bomber over this change? NOT! There are still uses for my Manti and when I join the corp that's trying to recruit me, I'll be flying the Manti with about 10 other pilots that have Mantis. Even, if I was the only stealth ship in the bunch, I don't feel that my Manti will not be able to kill frigs, cruisers, battlecruisers nor battleships. The Manti simply abuses ships and right now I currently make a lot of isk low sec ratting in it.
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.22 16:23:00 - [30] TBH, it is likely stealth bombers were introduced of nostalgia : cruise kestrels... The concept will never work because it's either underpowered or overpowered, so better forget about the idea. ____________________ Darko1107 > does anything in ascn space have tech II fittings? Quillan Rage > Iron ships
mechtech	Posted - 2006.10.22 16:39:00 - [31] The HP bonus causes so many problems for such a little benifit. I really hope it doesnt go through, racial HP balancing and ship class balancing should be good enough.
Pottsey Gallente Acme Shipping Inc	Posted - 2006.10.22 17:03:00 - [32] ôThe HP bonus causes so many problems for such a little benifit. I really hope it doesnt go through, racial HP balancing and ship class balancing should be good enough.ô ThatÆs just what almost anyone said last HP boost and they where all wrong. It turned out to be a good thing. I think this one will be the same. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Mallakk	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:54:00 - [33] Is there some info about a possible bomber tweak on sisi ? Or are they still pile of garbage ?
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:59:00 - [34] Simple improvement that'd help them- have them be able to lock quicker after decloaking. Why? Well, since you asked. As a few people have pointed out, their ability to kill intys is severely hampered by intys never allowing themselves to get into web range. Stealth Bombers are cloaking ships. Do the math. If a Stealth bomber can be part of a fleet, staying cloaked, while the intys close in, then it can move into web range, THEN uncloak, lock, web and shoot, thatd make them handy. If they can kill then inty and recloak before anyone can lock him, then he can move to a new position and start again. -----------------------------------------------
Mallakk	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:06:00 - [35] There is not much utility of a cloak in fleet if you cant warp cloacked with your fleet...
Karash Amerius Amarr O.E.C	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:07:00 - [36] I thought they were suppose to be used in groups. I have yet to see 5 bombers working together in pvp. Their real problem is their cost:durability ratio. Merc Blog
Mallakk	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:18:00 - [37] But the manticore they cost nearly nothing. The durability is effectively a counterpart of those ships
Serapis Aote TBC	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:18:00 - [38] scrap the stealth bomber...there are already enough frig killers. Make a real bomber class. A frigate that goes after bigger targets. Its heavy, slow...but packs a nice big punch. Take away the stealth ability let them all pack in at least 4 seige launchers and then give them less manuverability then an AF, but more armor and resists. Give them a larger sig radius, slow speed. Basically give BS a small chance of hitting them for defense. But cruisers will do very well vs. them. I think that would make a fun ship that is pretty useful in small group combat, but not too overpowered. As it is now, the devs dont want to give too much firepower to the ship because it can cloak, take away the cloak, give it awesome firepower, and design it for use in small gangs to take out bigger targets.
Deadzone Caldari Phoenix Propulsion Labs Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:27:00 - [39] Yep, I have been a bomber pilot for quite some time now. They were almost useless before this patch. Now, even more so. I like the ideas of using covert ops cloaking II AND being able to lock while cloaked. Missle dmg should get a big increase as well. Bombers are a specialized ship- just like support cruisers. They have only ONE function. As it is now, they have - bomber<0 - functions. CCP, you really need to to find a fix for these ships...very seriously. Vice-Admiral Military Division Phoenix Propulsion Laboratories
Karash Amerius Amarr O.E.C	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:30:00 - [40] Originally by: Serapis Aote scrap the stealth bomber...there are already enough frig killers. Make a real bomber class. A frigate that goes after bigger targets. Its heavy, slow...but packs a nice big punch. Take away the stealth ability let them all pack in at least 4 seige launchers and then give them less manuverability then an AF, but more armor and resists. Give them a larger sig radius, slow speed. Basically give BS a small chance of hitting them for defense. But cruisers will do very well vs. them. I think that would make a fun ship that is pretty useful in small group combat, but not too overpowered. As it is now, the devs dont want to give too much firepower to the ship because it can cloak, take away the cloak, give it awesome firepower, and design it for use in small gangs to take out bigger targets. Sounds like a good idea for a Destroyer. Merc Blog
DaemonBarber	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:34:00 - [41] Perhaps Stealth Bombers should fly in packs instead of solo - then maybe they could take on a larger target? Just how many cruise missles does it take to drop a cruiser in an alpha strike, or a BS?
Steppa Gallente Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:41:00 - [42] Originally by: Merin RyskinWhile a sudden end to POS-spam wars would be nice, this just really isn't practical... the POS owners would never accept a cheap frigate that can wipe out their entire POS investment.quote You have just identified one of the axioms of technological war. If a 15000 dollar missile can take out a 15 million dollar jet, you win. Same thing with tactical nukes in the navy, or a sabot round and tanks...the list goes on and on.
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:53:00 - [43] Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 24/10/2006 18:55:36 If you fit a Passive targeter and start at MAX range with the High damage t2 cruise missiles and flip on a MWD (t2 cruise gets a velocity penalty of rought half normal speed) it is possible to stack up a large ammount of cruise missiles fairly close together. You can dive at larger ships like this forcing them to take a huge alpha strike and activate a remote sensor damper as you get close so that you can fly past them and cloak and let other gang members mop it up while you make a second pass. I'm not saying there arent better ways to kill large ship but this is another way to do it in case you get boored and want something different and after the WCS changes you should be able to have another ship hold them out of warp without worrying about them having +4 or so warp strength. I feel the main problem with stealth bombers is that they SHOULD be able to use a cov ops cloak. The main reason being that if everyone knows your in the system just by looking at the local chat channel it sort of defeats the whole purpose of a stealth attack ship. You can have some sucess lying in wait at belts to hamper a rival corps industry by destroying mining barges, cruise missiles are very good at destroying them. I would propose the following changes to be made at the same time of the HP increase on ships. For Stealth Bombers 1. Allow them to use Cov Ops cloaks (partial stealth is bad on a ship relying on it) 2. Give them a reduction to the sensor recal time for locking (per lvl of cov ops) 3. Give them a signifigant ROF bonus to cruise missiles (per lvl of cov ops). so they can unload and make an escape leaving a limping enemy for friendlies to clean up 4. Make the reduction to PG requirements on Cruise launchers better so that fitting them does not use up 99% of your stock available PG. For Destroyers to Counter Stealth Bombers 1. Add a new module that allows a destroyer (and only destroyers/interdictors) to get approximate fix's on the locations of stealthed ships. Give them an arrow or some type of indicator that will indicate the direction of a stealthed ship within a certain range (dont give them an exact direction) that could get more accurate with skills or additional modules. 2. The new module above must be activated and gives an immediate approximate bearing on a cloaked ship but does not update on the fly. It will not take into account where the ship could have moved. This should be similar to a sensor ping and SHOULD place the destroyer onto the scanner just like a Cryno field allowing anyone in the system to warp to within 15km of them for a set ammount of time. Not only would this make Stealth bombers more useful but it would also give destroyers a bran new purpose in life. I suppose my vision for Stealth bombers is similar to a submarine, I want them to lurk around in wait and unload massive amounts of damage but i want a ship out there that can be used as an effective counter to neutralize the situation without much trouble.
Tssa Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:57:00 - [44] I want a heavy bomber...cruiser sized cloaker that fires one capital torpedo with a buff on explosion velocity and precision, but a nasty ROF penalty. Otherwise, same function as the current bomber. Let's have a traditional thanks giving this year...invite the neighbors over for dinner..then kill them and take their T2 stuff!!
Thecle Vifargent GandY Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.24 20:41:00 - [45] Light bombers have no use, how can they make a continuity with a cruiser bomber in the line with a broken basis ?...
Metacannibal Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:27:00 - [46] stealth bombers are already the biggest joke of ship in eve, people just fly them because they assume that the mighty stealth bomber term carried over to them. they are good for exactly two things: - popping shuttles and t1 frigs on travelroutes in 0.0 - wasting 100m+ on a ship+modules that gets popped by about everything that you practially encounter in 0.0 space, minus aforementioned ships on ap
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.24 22:19:00 - [47] Originally by: Gorion Wassenar The new change will hose this class. The missles should be able to hit while cloaked. The missiles have always been able to hit while cloaked... provided you were not more than 25k or so from your target when you launched them. I havent gotten on the test server to see if they have removed or nerfed that in Kali though. This signature space for rent
Mallakk	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:12:00 - [48] Looks like they will stay as they are... nothing new on sisi about them :(

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