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Roxanna Kell BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2006.10.22 01:51:00 - [1] Have you come across an enemy reckon fleet yet? Well i have, and its not a very nice situation to be in. So me and painball were roaming about down south, when we try and gang a pilgrim sat on the gate. the next thing, 6 reckon ships jump in. so in total Falconx2, pilgrim x3, arazu and a hugin. painball insta to a gate in his vaga, i warped to a planet cause i didn't have isntas in that region. next thing iam going planet to planet scanning the gates, nothing. so you start feeling like a lone Cruiser in the middle of a U-Boat infested Sea. so i picked the least obvious gate for escape, nothing on scanner. i come out of warp, i hit MWD on my cerb, and the pilgrim declocks to suck on my cap in one go. luckily that 1 mwd activation took me all the way to the gate, i didnt wanna risk taking out the pilgrim quick before the others make it. they could ve been clocked on the gate next to me. We managed to bail out of that and carry on with it. SO Reckon Fleets are one Hell of an evil tactic in EVE. the last thing you want is to get Scrambled from 60k, jammed, dampened, and no cap to play with. Quote: "Don't touch the red button!"
Chode Rizoum Minmatar Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.22 01:54:00 - [2] burn eden in an alliance
Roxanna Kell BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2006.10.22 02:06:00 - [3] Originally by: Chode Rizoum burn eden in an alliance thats not the topic is it? Quote: "Don't touch the red button!"
Blind Man Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.22 02:07:00 - [4] they can be scary yes, esp with a claymore and gang mods for the ew range
Elvarien Caldari The Night's Watch THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.10.22 02:10:00 - [5] oh ... my .. **** your completely right that no one has done this before .. Just think of it a big alliance with the money to fund it has lets say a random number .... 25 yes 35 people in cloaked boats flying around. They can invade enemy teretory and enter a heavy mining op.... POP POP POP there go several hulks and then completely disapear a moment later to reapear killing eff every single loner in enemy space .. that and the gankability of that is just scary hell 10 recons or 5 even could be very damn nasty already ..... wow.
Benglada Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.22 03:50:00 - [6] iv seen mc use gangs of 50+ with nothing but hacs/recons. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Pestillence Chav-Scum	Posted - 2006.10.22 04:05:00 - [7] Originally by: Benglada iv seen mc use gangs of 50+ with nothing but hacs/recons. Doubtful.
Roxanna Kell BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.10.22 04:13:00 - [8] Originally by: Pestillence Originally by: Benglada iv seen mc use gangs of 50+ with nothing but hacs/recons. Doubtful. no not douptfull, plent of corps in eve can do that. especially MC. Tut we are talking Rekon fleet only, meaning that 25 people can just decloak and pawn your up, EW on every ship, so no one can shoot., damn. Quote: "Don't touch the red button!"
Bohoba Caldari The Dark Angles	Posted - 2006.10.22 04:59:00 - [9] Ya sure have Hey tell Painball hi from Boh:) man put 1 recon each race and a comandship I say that is a death squad lol Get Into the Game it makes it fun for all
Captin Biltmore Amarr Damage Unlimited Inc Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.22 05:04:00 - [10] Yes these are some nasty nasty fleets. I have been part of some 100% recon wolf packs...and let me tell you, they make you feel like gods. The largest wolfpack I was in was 5 (2 pilgrim, 2 caldari, 1 galante). I think we could have went up against 4-5 BS's and not flinched. My corp mate and I regularly go out together, him in his caldari and me in my pilgrim. We took out 2 t2 ravens at once before together...just nasty. Assasin For Hire - Contact in game
Ephemeron Crimson Crusaders Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.22 05:18:00 - [11] A long time ago I posted a thread about most deadly fleets, I was suggesting that recon fleet would be most deadly. I certainly see the potential. I'm surprised many people disagreed
Altai Saker Omniscient Order	Posted - 2006.10.22 05:27:00 - [12] To do a fleet like that properly would require a painful ammount of coordination to the point of being ridiculously difficult. You come up against a fleet that can do respectable damage and if you havent got just about everysingle one of those ships removed in some way you are going to take heavy losses.
Dragerest Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.22 05:35:00 - [13] whats a Reckon fleet? ________________________________________________________ For your tech 2 needs www.evetrust.com
Tunajuice	Posted - 2006.10.22 05:38:00 - [14] Would be more deadly if they didn't all show in local.
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.22 05:40:00 - [15] Originally by: Dragerest whats a Reckon fleet? A fleet consisted 100% of the Cloaking (EW) Recon ships _____________________________ siggys v. 0.5
Dragerest Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.22 06:20:00 - [16] oh ok. i think it would be called "recon fleet" reckon.. i thought you were from southern USA ________________________________________________________ For your tech 2 needs www.evetrust.com
Roxanna Kell BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.10.22 06:22:00 - [17] Reckon cruisers to be exact, and guys sorry for the many spelling mistakes, i was tired at the time. Coordinating 10 reckon ships isn't hard at all. anything around 25-50. you can give each Ew ship a number, so if i have number 12, i will shoot the 12th guy on the overview list, sorted by alphabet. Every one will shot primary. never the less. Quote: "Don't touch the red button!"
Denrace Amarr Psykotic Dreams Barracudas.	Posted - 2006.10.22 08:15:00 - [18] It seems a RECON ship is better at PVP than most COMBAT based ships. Recon > everything else Shouldnt be this way, and hopefully Kali will change this to an extent. There is no way in hell a well-skilled Absolution should be beaten senseless in seconds by recon ship pilot with only a few mill SP's /trains recons and leaves his HACs in the hangar Den ________________________________________
BOBHOPE Oberon Incorporated Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.10.22 09:17:00 - [19] Recons for the win. their versatality makes them so awesome! coupled with HAC's and a dictor yuou have everything a fleet needs. /me dribbles
Hyssax Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.22 09:29:00 - [20] Originally by: Pestillence Originally by: Benglada iv seen mc use gangs of 50+ with nothing but hacs/recons. Doubtful. You should know better than that.
Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.10.22 09:32:00 - [21] Quote: There is no way in hell a well-skilled Absolution should be beaten senseless in seconds by recon ship pilot with only a few mill SP's Crying or Very sad There's no such thing as a "recon ship pilot with only a few mill SP's". Recons, if anything are one of the most skill intensive ships out there, requiring lots of support skills (cap, drones, LOTS in electronics, navigation) to be effective. Thinking otherwise is foolish at best. òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.22 11:02:00 - [22] Mixed recon fleet is one hell of a punch to coutner sicne they have the ability to subjigate almost every thing , nos , ecm , damps , target paitntign webbign scrambeling etc . Only thing u can coutner is with ravens fitting FOF missiles although i highly doubt that it will even work , smart bombign ships will prob get sucked dry before even doign their first bombing run. "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2006.10.22 11:16:00 - [23] Correct me if im wrong, but FOF missiles will only go out as far as your lock range. Minmatar + Gallente recon ship = teh pwn Now a whole fleet of those with pilgrims thrown in to help break tanks...and DAMN ________________ What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.22 11:22:00 - [24] I had a similar fright with a pilgrim the other month. Was in a Raven and bumped into a Pilgrim. The pilot began to Nos me and slowly eat away at my tank, also has a web set on me so I can't do a runner. Fortunately I had a Nos myself, so we're sitting there nos'ing each other away, tanks slowly decreasing. Drones battling it out. Luckily I had corpmates nearby who could come along and lockdown the Pilgrim, but was certainly scary at the time. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Caletha	Posted - 2006.10.22 11:30:00 - [25] I love recon gangs, when I'm in them I fly a Huginn or Rapier myself, last time we went out with a Falcon, Rapier, Pilgrim and last but not least, a sacrificial lamb/cow/other animal. In our case it was a tanked Thorax. We'd smack that into a system, let him check whats there and engage numbers we can take, we jump in and slaughter them all. Worked really well until our bait had to log , people get freaked easely if a gate goes off and they dont see anything.
Soraya Silvermoon Never'where	Posted - 2006.10.22 11:30:00 - [26] Anyone who have ever tried flying a recon fleet in numbers less than 5 have found that their firepower is so **** that enemy actually sometimes have time to mobilize and come to the rescue. Anyone whos flown a bs sniperfleet of 5 have discovered that as soon as any recons uncloack their instapopped. I find it just as fun every time to kill recons who think their smart and uncloack. Once I had a team of mixed recons and inties and hacs and we went to hostile space to win an alliance competition.. we ran into a fleet of 20 cloackers.. And it was quite scary but we lost nothing we simply turned around when we realized what we were up against.. but in all fairness a fleet of 20 vs us 5 would have been scary even if it was kestrells..
Nir	Posted - 2006.10.22 11:40:00 - [27] All recons are medslot heavy and have oodles of CPU, so they all fit a lot of ECM.. It even takes precedence over their own racial Ewar in most cases. ECM is overpowdered, not Recons.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.10.22 11:48:00 - [28] Well its banging every form of Ewar together with bonuses on a cruiser sized platfom. It's going to be effective. Wonder if we'll see Recon BS one day? ;) Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
Soraya Silvermoon Never'where	Posted - 2006.10.22 11:59:00 - [29] Originally by: Nir All recons are medslot heavy and have oodles of CPU, so they all fit a lot of ECM.. It even takes precedence over their own racial Ewar in most cases. ECM is overpowdered, not Recons. Only the Caldari recon fits ecm. Guns are overpowered ecm isnt. And the other recons have their own ewar and they kick ass.. except maby the amarr one with the tracking disrupters they could use some fixing.. But they got that imensly powerfull nos.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.22 12:03:00 - [30] Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon Only the Caldari recon fits ecm. Guns are overpowered ecm isnt. Nooo? ECM is on amarr and minmatar recons far more viable than their racial EW.
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.22 12:50:00 - [31] Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon Originally by: Nir All recons are medslot heavy and have oodles of CPU, so they all fit a lot of ECM.. It even takes precedence over their own racial Ewar in most cases. ECM is overpowdered, not Recons. Only the Caldari recon fits ecm. Guns are overpowered ecm isnt. And the other recons have their own ewar and they kick ass.. except maby the amarr one with the tracking disrupters they could use some fixing.. But they got that imensly powerfull nos. actually, when you see pilgrims and arazus and stuff fitting multispecs instead of their racial ECM (common thing), then you can say it's overpowered. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Pestillence Chav-Scum	Posted - 2006.10.22 16:24:00 - [32] Originally by: Hyssax Originally by: Pestillence Originally by: Benglada iv seen mc use gangs of 50+ with nothing but hacs/recons. Doubtful. You should know better than that. ofc I do, Why would you fly that many recon ships? The MC I know balances their fleets better than that.
Choi Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.10.22 16:25:00 - [33] Edited by: Choi on 22/10/2006 16:25:35 Originally by: Grimpak actually, when you see pilgrims and arazus and stuff fitting multispecs instead of their racial ECM (common thing), then you can say it's overpowered. who all die when they run into anyone NOT stupid who fitted a backup array. Ecm isnt overpowered, its underpowered. 1 backup array and your not likely to be jammed, 2 and you shrug it off completely. Not to mention that there are both lowslot and medslot mods that do this. People just dont have the wherewithall to fit these mods because then they cant run their "uber" tank or all of their nanos or dmg mods.
FraXy Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.22 16:36:00 - [34] Originally by: Choi Edited by: Choi on 22/10/2006 16:25:35 Originally by: Grimpak actually, when you see pilgrims and arazus and stuff fitting multispecs instead of their racial ECM (common thing), then you can say it's overpowered. who all die when they run into anyone NOT stupid who fitted a backup array. Ecm isnt overpowered, its underpowered. 1 backup array and your not likely to be jammed, 2 and you shrug it off completely. Not to mention that there are both lowslot and medslot mods that do this. People just dont have the wherewithall to fit these mods because then they cant run their "uber" tank or all of their nanos or dmg mods. Archon getting jammed by a single multispec with 146 sensor strength. ECM is not overpowered at all.. This is my lazy attempt to make an uber-signature, please go away!
DarkElf Caldari Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.10.22 17:06:00 - [35] Originally by: Nir All recons are medslot heavy and have oodles of CPU, so they all fit a lot of ECM.. It even takes precedence over their own racial Ewar in most cases. ECM is overpowdered, not Recons. oodles of cpu? ever tried fitting a pilgrim? DE
DarkElf Caldari Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.10.22 17:08:00 - [36] Originally by: FraXy Originally by: Choi Edited by: Choi on 22/10/2006 16:25:35 Originally by: Grimpak actually, when you see pilgrims and arazus and stuff fitting multispecs instead of their racial ECM (common thing), then you can say it's overpowered. who all die when they run into anyone NOT stupid who fitted a backup array. Ecm isnt overpowered, its underpowered. 1 backup array and your not likely to be jammed, 2 and you shrug it off completely. Not to mention that there are both lowslot and medslot mods that do this. People just dont have the wherewithall to fit these mods because then they cant run their "uber" tank or all of their nanos or dmg mods. Archon getting jammed by a single multispec with 146 sensor strength. ECM is not overpowered at all.. Oh and well and truly /signed (Dark has exact same situation - 146 strength with 2 eccms and jammed by multis) DE
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.22 19:02:00 - [37] Originally by: Denrace It seems a RECON ship is better at PVP than most COMBAT based ships. Recon > everything else Shouldnt be this way, and hopefully Kali will change this to an extent. There is no way in hell a well-skilled Absolution should be beaten senseless in seconds by recon ship pilot with only a few mill SP's /trains recons and leaves his HACs in the hangar Den It will certainly won't go down from a lone recon ship (exception is Curse/Pilgrim). My Falcon has the damage output of a 5year old and the rest of the Recons can't put as damage output as a HAC (but yes, they are fairly close and in some particular setups better). _____________________________ siggys v. 0.5
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.22 19:07:00 - [38] Originally by: DarkElf Originally by: Nir All recons are medslot heavy and have oodles of CPU, so they all fit a lot of ECM.. It even takes precedence over their own racial Ewar in most cases. ECM is overpowdered, not Recons. oodles of cpu? ever tried fitting a pilgrim? DE Ever tried fitting an Ishtar? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.22 19:12:00 - [39] Edited by: Aramendel on 22/10/2006 19:13:43 Originally by: Choi Originally by: Grimpak actually, when you see pilgrims and arazus and stuff fitting multispecs instead of their racial ECM (common thing), then you can say it's overpowered. who all die when they run into anyone NOT stupid who fitted a backup array... Correction: who then have a chance to die when.. Your whole ECCM argument fails because there are countermodules for the other EW systems too, in just the same way. And those are even more commonly used than ECCM, because they actually give boni to the ship when not under EW influence. And, most importantly, there are ships which do not have to fit a single anti-module to counter the other EW systems. The effect of tracking disruptors vs missle and drone ships is nil. A damperner setup won't be effective against fast frigs or cruisers with a MWD. What makes ECM so strong is that it has no targets where it has no effect - countermodule independant.
Roxanna Kell BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.10.22 20:28:00 - [40] I just don't like the Chance system,. and countermeasures should always be better than, Quote: "Don't touch the red button!"
Ortt	Posted - 2006.10.23 00:03:00 - [41] It is my distinct pleasure to start the: NERF RECON's thread whine. We took out stab's now lets take out RECONS!1!!!!
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.23 00:23:00 - [42] Originally by: Aramendel And, most importantly, there are ships which do not have to fit a single anti-module to counter the other EW systems. The effect of tracking disruptors vs missle and drone ships is nil. A damperner setup won't be effective against fast frigs or cruisers with a MWD. That is quite simply wrong - even a 40km base lockrange frigate gets damped into near uselessness easily. You're mistaking the effect of not being a binary switch like ECM, and hence being bound to eventually work for full effect under any conditions, with lacking versatility. Dampeners do quite effectively (and without ever failing) neutralize any single ship that isn't running sensorboosters to the point of uselessness (ie shortrange ships with 2x SB). With however two more caveats than ECM : For starters dampening skills are practically a necessity to get a useful effect and furthermore you can't gain any benefit from activating one module on every target hoping for a tremendous payoff. The dampening concept is actually pretty nice, and has alot more place in a game than ECM does. It's only somewhat out of equilibrium right now for lack of more useful countermodules, particularly in lowslots, without locktime/range bonuses and for the predominance of ECM making it nearly impossible to reasonably fit to protect from both (and seeing as either without adequate protection are completely fatal, that's a problem). As to the "HAY GUYZ, PEOPLE ARE TOO STUPID TO FIT ECCM" crowd - shut the christ up. It's the nature of a chance-based system, especially a perfectly linear one, that ECCM isn't even protecting you significantly as much as it is halving a chance which happened to be high enough to begin with. As long as all your opponents cycles boil down to 33%+ to jam every 20 seconds, combat isn't very sustainable. Neither does it remove the sheer stupidity of a completely uninvolved 100% disable (unlike Damps), nor does it solve the problem that this change increased the cleft between ECM and non-ECM ships - in effect making the previously most effective counter module (your own ECM) now less effective, in exchange for granting you a purely conditional countermodule that still can't hold a candle to ECM. And to whoever mentioned lowslot ECCM, I hope you realize it's stacking penalized. I also hope you choke on a hotdog while trying to eat and shave your neckbeard at the same time.
Onel Whitaker	Posted - 2006.10.23 00:49:00 - [43] Quote: My Falcon has the damage output of a 5year old and the rest of the Recons can't put as damage output as a HAC (but yes, they are fairly close and in some particular setups better). When I got my Falcon I tought that I should try it out so I went to lowsec, after a while looking for a target I ran into a Profacy, it took me 7min to kill here and the prophecy was T1 fitted... all of the other recons have better fire power then the Falcon Hell will seem like heaven when I am done with you.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.23 01:14:00 - [44] Been there done that. Recon squads are the bomb. I love dual boxing with my recons any chance I get and doing ops with large gangs in alliance as well. Fun stuff. It also keeps your everyday opponents on their feet since you may show up in a recon fleet OR a BS fleet OR a frig swarm. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Death Merchant InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.23 01:59:00 - [45] Any one ship I sensor dampen in my arazu isn't locking anyone till next downtime. Also, I dont like the firepower of all recon fleets. 6-7 ships of course. Seems that in our recon fleets a little more firepower(preferbly hacs) seem to make them alot more effective. "What happens in Deklien stays in Deklien".

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