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Alliances fueled by isk from GTC for isk?

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IizzaBatch	Posted - 2006.10.23 14:29:00 - [1] Edited by: IizzaBatch on 23/10/2006 14:31:11 Quote: XXXXX: Please use timecards instead of a subscription to Eve! If you've never noticed the links up top on this webpage entitled "Register a new Eve account" and "Buy an Eve time card!", those are the primary money makers for XXXXX. Any new accounts purchased through "Register" give the corp $7.00 the next month, paypal'd to us directly from CCP. Any timecards purchased through "Buy" give us $.75 or $1.80 for each 30-day or 90-day timecard you buy. Together, that becomes thousands of dollars per month, reinvested into timecards and sold for alliance ISK. Please use those links instead of just making new accounts with CCP outside the links, and instead of paying automatic subscription costs to CCP. At this point, so many thousand cards have been purchased and sold with little or no problems, that I can recommend the service XXXXX provides 100%. Do your part for the corp by taking just a few moments every month and using our links. I found this wrote elsewhere, in the wrong place, so im posting it here for discussion. This is supposed to be taken from the xxx alliance website. Can anyone explain what this actually means? It looks like alliance xxx is getting their members to buy timecards and accounts through a link the alliance provides, for it the alliance receives xxx money from ccp for every timecode/account bought via them and then uses this money to buy timecards which they then sell for isk which is the alliances "primary" method of making isk. Do not know who alliance "xxx" is.
LaCoHa Caldari Deep Space Navy Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.10.23 14:32:00 - [2] Hope thats not true. But hell, anything is possible. Yay, Conspiracies - I love them. "I just slaughtered 28 people in that game of Battlefield 2 and never died. Man my e-p33n feels huge."
Nir	Posted - 2006.10.23 14:34:00 - [3] Its hardly shocking or an outrage though is it? Just GTC selling on a larger scale, bought with money made by legitimate means. I see nothing wrong with that.
IizzaBatch	Posted - 2006.10.23 14:36:00 - [4] Edited by: IizzaBatch on 23/10/2006 14:36:37 Originally by: Nir Its hardly shocking or an outrage though is it? Just GTC selling on a larger scale, bought with money made by legitimate means. I see nothing wrong with that. It does bring true some theories posted not to long ago about how in the future we could see entire alliances fueled by isk gained from selling gametime cards for isk.
Extreme Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.23 14:37:00 - [5] Quote: If you've never noticed the links up top on this webpage Another fake eve site i guess... . .
IizzaBatch	Posted - 2006.10.23 14:38:00 - [6] Edited by: IizzaBatch on 23/10/2006 14:39:12 Originally by: Extreme Quote: If you've never noticed the links up top on this webpage Another fake eve site i guess... Nope, this is from an actual alliance website, which alliance leader recently got accidently banned involving GTC sales? I think i can guess which alliance this is.
Khan Dhu	Posted - 2006.10.23 14:47:00 - [7] I don't see what the problem is. What's the "beef" here - someone's getting money and you're not? Newbie account referral money is 100% legal - I mean, the money comes from CCP. I would think the incentives a timecard reseller gives their clients is outside the purview of CCP so long as they get the standard price for the codes in the first place. If it was so "wrong," CCP would yank their certification. As for rolling them into ISK, depending on the amount we're talking (thousands I guess from the quote), it shows some restraint that it's being rolled back into the alliance instead of being pocketed by some lucky *******. It seems to me that if the corp is getting paid back for patronizing a business, good for them. Forums and the like don't pay for themselves.
Cadiz Caldari No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.23 14:49:00 - [8] Edited by: Cadiz on 23/10/2006 14:53:59 It looks like the alliance in question is using both the EVE affiliate program (https://secure.eve-online.com/affiliate/) and what I'm guessing is also an affiliate-commission scheme with a particular GTC vendor store. In isolation both elements are perfectly reasonable, but when combined with the reinvesting into GTC-for-isk...well, it smacks of shadiness, but it's all within the bounds of acceptable as far as EVE's rules go. With that considered, it's definitely a pretty cunning little plan - potentially unscrupulous, but perfectly within the nominal bounds of legal. What I don't like is the potential implications of a mass alliance isk-making system wholly independent of in-game infrastructure & endeavour. In a way that's almost worse than relentless complex abuse - at least that still actually takes place in EVE itself. Still, CCP opened the door for this one themselves by embracing GTC-for-isk sales, sooo... ------ Quartermaster, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.23 14:50:00 - [9] Edited by: Rafein on 23/10/2006 14:56:22 I beleive I know the alliance you speak of, I know of one alliance head that has been recently banned. As for your info, I know there is the affiliates program. Scan down to the bottom of the screen under the forums, and you can See it for yourself, CCP approved. They pay you money for every player who signs up, but no mention of commission on GTC's.
chingon Caldari Black Knight Buccaneers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.10.23 14:53:00 - [10] I have indeed 'heard' from sources in an alliances that these kinda things do exists,sadly enough some members make advantage from these kinda things Ö Sig By Liu Mang
Armois Delgato FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.23 15:10:00 - [11] Edited by: Armois Delgato on 23/10/2006 15:11:18 Edited by: Armois Delgato on 23/10/2006 15:10:52 Timecard kickbacks such as this should be banned if they are currently legit. Allowing disreputable alliances to make billions upon billions of ISK per month simply for paying subscription monies to a third party vendor is tantamount to allowing people to buy and sell ISK for real life cash. As direct ISK-for-cash transactions are illegal so should 'kickbacks' such as these also be illegal. These shady transactions cheapen the game and bring real life 'value' to bits of data in CCP's databases- something I thought CCP wanted to avoid by virtue of their anti-Ebay policy.
Khan Dhu	Posted - 2006.10.23 15:17:00 - [12] Edited by: Khan Dhu on 23/10/2006 15:21:55 Even if CCP banned resellers from paying customers referral money, nothing would stop them from offering the clients codes directly in referrals - which would involve no real money changing hands and be theoretically legal. In fact, that'd probably be simpler - it sounds like however the hell this works, it's complicated. If the problem has to do with someone getting real world money and/or the act converting it into isk, why not take the offending part of the equation out altogether, so the only real world money being spent are people legitimately buying the timecodes to begin with? EDIT: Like I said in another TC-related thread on here...so long as CCP's getting money, who the hell cares? Even if we're talking about only a few billion per month, that's a negigible amount in economic terms (says the guy with only 750m at moment). Mission runners damage the economy more than this sounds like it ever could.
Pestillence Chav-Scum	Posted - 2006.10.23 15:30:00 - [13] Originally by: chingon I have indeed 'heard' from sources in an alliances that these kinda things do exists,sadly enough some members make advantage from these kinda things You mean people make money (commision) for signing up the bees? Im shocked (wait...im not)
Sister 9 Phung Hoang Social Club	Posted - 2006.10.23 15:32:00 - [14] well someones got to ask it :) who is the alliance most likely to be?
IizzaBatch	Posted - 2006.10.23 15:45:00 - [15] Originally by: Khan Dhu Edited by: Khan Dhu on 23/10/2006 15:21:55 Even if CCP banned resellers from paying customers referral money, nothing would stop them from offering the clients codes directly in referrals - which would involve no real money changing hands and be theoretically legal. In fact, that'd probably be simpler - it sounds like however the hell this works, it's complicated. If the problem has to do with someone getting real world money and/or the act converting it into isk, why not take the offending part of the equation out altogether, so the only real world money being spent are people legitimately buying the timecodes to begin with? EDIT: Like I said in another TC-related thread on here...so long as CCP's getting money, who the hell cares? Even if we're talking about only a few billion per month, that's a negigible amount in economic terms (says the guy with only 750m at moment). Mission runners damage the economy more than this sounds like it ever could. If ccp started selling isk themselves for a set price, you pay them x dollars for x amount of isk with your visa card any time you want some isk, would you still be ok with with it? Would you say "its ok because ccp are making money"?
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.23 15:48:00 - [16] Looks perfectly legal to me... ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Velius Donegol	Posted - 2006.10.23 15:49:00 - [17] Edited by: Velius Donegol on 23/10/2006 15:51:31 Originally by: Armois Delgato Edited by: Armois Delgato on 23/10/2006 15:11:18 Edited by: Armois Delgato on 23/10/2006 15:10:52 Timecard kickbacks such as this should be banned if they are currently legit. Allowing disreputable alliances to make billions upon billions of ISK per month simply for paying subscription monies to a third party vendor is tantamount to allowing people to buy and sell ISK for real life cash. You do realize that timecard sales are a direct and CCP sanctioned means of converting real life money to isk, right? It's going the other way around (i.e. isk to money) that is prohibited, and that's apparently not occuring based on the text above.
Frederick Skinner BlueMen Inc	Posted - 2006.10.23 15:51:00 - [18] 1) You've just exposed an intelligence asset I bet. gg 2) If CCP or the seller of the TC's giving monies out for selling/recruiting/we is a problem in their eyes then we have our answer don't we? 3) TC's tend to be cheaper then straight subs and CCP still gets money while dirt poor gamers get to play so lets not revisit the TCÆs are bad thing again, mmmmkay? 4) If the leaders KEPT the monies they would be getting anyway and DID NOT ôreinvestö back into the allianceà this is better? PLEASE, ur stupid. Ok, this was dumb of me... I'll go back to just reading now.
Pestillence Chav-Scum	Posted - 2006.10.23 15:54:00 - [19] Edited by: Pestillence on 23/10/2006 15:54:39 Originally by: Sister 9 well someones got to ask it :) who is the alliance most likely to be? Give-away references to bees wasnt enough Here, I'll try to be less vague. Goonfleet
Roshan longshot Gallente Order of the Arrow	Posted - 2006.10.23 15:57:00 - [20] Sorry, GTC's are bad...simple as that. If you cant afford to play Eve-online...well maybe you need to get off your arse and go find a job? What they were ment for? And why CCP allows their use? I dont know, but I read somwhere the 'great idea' was so players who ran into money trouble in RL could still play. And I know people in-game with problems, they still have a job, but money is tight. What has happened, and its just as bad as SOE doing there thing....RICH people in RL are makeing themselves Rich in game. And now this? "This is how the alliance gets its ISK?" CCP might as well restore all them accounts they supposibly baned for isk sales off of E-Bay. And restore confiscated assests. Wait its all ok, cause CCP gets their money... Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
LaCoHa Caldari Deep Space Navy Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.10.23 15:58:00 - [21] Edited by: LaCoHa on 23/10/2006 15:58:51 Its not the legality that is at issue here. It is just the idea that CCP itself (if true) would allow, and indeed encourage these kinds of mechanics to develop and exist. - That is not cool imo. but whatever, I am gonna win the BPO lottery as soon as Kali hits. "I just slaughtered 28 people in that game of Battlefield 2 and never died. Man my e-p33n feels huge."
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.10.23 15:58:00 - [22] Edited by: Death Kill on 23/10/2006 15:58:44 Dear Kieron/devs. Most likely you wont read this, but seriously stop allowing sales of gametime codes. Its blatantly ruining the game, if you cant see this then we are all doomed. Ok, perhaps not doomed but it makes a super-duper-great game becomes ***tier. N=R x fp x ne x fl x Fi x fc x L
Khan Dhu	Posted - 2006.10.23 16:03:00 - [23] Originally by: IizzaBatch If ccp started selling isk themselves for a set price, you pay them x dollars for x amount of isk with your visa card any time you want some isk, would you still be ok with with it? Would you say "its ok because ccp are making money"? Sure - the TC-to-ISK bridge involves a middleman. People always contend that people who "buy" in-game currency are somehow hurting the game's economy. Somehow I think self-made non-working millionaires with a penchant for playing EVE are a little rare, and most of the mass-TC-to-ISK sellers are Little Johnnies with their mother's credit card. In a game where some fully-officer-fited faction ships can cost you more than what's being talked about in this instance, it's not hurting the economy enough for me to care or pretend to be incensed about it.
Afonso Henriques Minmatar Low Grade Ore The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.10.23 16:11:00 - [24] I'm starting to think ccp should remove gtc's from the game.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.10.23 16:14:00 - [25] Originally by: Afonso Henriques I'm starting to think ccp should remove gtc's from the game. YOu and 'most people'. GTC = 'rich spoiled-cant be bothered to make an effort' players getting isk + CCP getting a boost of income. Its shamefull really. N=R* x fp x ne x fl x Fi x fc x L
Valan	Posted - 2006.10.23 16:18:00 - [26] /emote Points and laughs at CCP. An alliance with access to top end game content using out of game mechanisms. Please implement a station exchange so we can all play on the same level. I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
Tar om Minmatar Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.23 16:23:00 - [27] GTC for isk ia a bad system. CCP should never have allowed it. -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net "The belief in the possibility of a short decisive war appears to be one of the most ancient and dangerous of human illusions."
Valan	Posted - 2006.10.23 16:31:00 - [28] For anyone who is wondering what is wrong with it. It ****es all over those who part hard work into keeping their alliances going. This requires no work or effort. It is risk free isk. Yes risk free so after all that crap about risk free empire earners we have alliances farming bugs and generating isk from GTCs without consequence CCP spend time balancing ships and modules and nerfing BMs to play into the hands of alliances. The player base isn't even balanced. I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
Zhaine B e l l u m	Posted - 2006.10.23 16:44:00 - [29] Alliances are run on good leadership and organisation rather than on ISK. An alliance with very good leadership will be able to get enough isk through more legitimate means anyway. An alliance with poor leadership will fail even if can buy in isk. So meh, it sucks but not THAT much. - - - - - - - - - - Quote: I don't even want a ship, ships are for carebears. Give me a fish bowl for my head (to keep space out) and smear me with lard, then armed with a toasting fork-
Sara Harvey Gallente Gwneuthur Corfforeath The Confederation	Posted - 2006.10.23 16:52:00 - [30] gtc for isk is one way of keeping ppl that would normally leave after a few months to a year.... there is a big market and growing of ppl that just dont like the idea of forking out month after month after month.... i know because im one of them.... dropd EQ, droped WoW, and a FEW others, to come to eve because i could use my ingame resources to fund my account..... but i am not alone as i stated this is a big peice of the market and i have recruted many pll from many diferent games on the context of ingame resourses used for play time... the only game i have not been able to get ppl to leave to join me in eve is GW, but that is because GW has NO monthly sub..... i could list you at least 100+ ppl that would just quit eve if they do away with ingame resources for game play. and if your really against this then mabee you should go to SWG or something run by sony, as sony is (in my opinion) never going to give you any break in monthly subs, in fact they keep raiseing there monthly sub driveing away ppl Sara Harvey

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