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Rafein
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:41:00 -
[1]
http://imagesocket.com/view/leader6e1.png
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Braxxor
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Posted - 2006.10.24 17:04:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Braxxor on 24/10/2006 17:04:10
Edited by: Braxxor on 24/10/2006 17:03:56
Neat idea. Though I might lower the number of Squads and Wings that could be managed by one person so as to limit the size of blobs... or at least make a large blob alot harder to manage (as they would have to divide into multiple gangs).
Also, I assume that warfare link modules would apply to your entire Fleet, and not just your own individual gang/squad/wing?
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Rafein
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.24 17:07:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Rafein on 24/10/2006 17:07:29
unknown, hoping to find out soon. but could need a gang link per squad, for more balanced squadsm and to push people in BC's.
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Jintoo Cranspar
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Posted - 2006.10.24 17:08:00 -
[4]
So what is Squadron Command going to add?
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Malena
Perpetual Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.24 17:23:00 -
[5]
So a squadron is up to 10 members then? And with each level of skill it seems like you add 10 more...so a total of 10 for leadership 5+50 for squadron command 5+ 250 for wing command 5....so a total of 310 max gang...
ROFL=your own little node killing fleet/lag fest.
<shudders at the thought of sending out that many invites>
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Braxxor
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Posted - 2006.10.24 17:37:00 -
[6]
It's kinda interesting... if you wanna handle a large gang, one thing to note...
current Squadron Command skill is a rank 6 skill. It's being replaced with Wing Command, which is a rank 8 skill. They are one in the same as both requires only Leavership V.
Therefore... you can shave quite abit of time (the difference between training a rank 6 from I to V and training a rank 8 from I to V) by doing Squadron Command now, assuming that it automagically switches over to the new skill called "Wing Command" in Kali.
Or it could be a typo =P.
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Rafein
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.24 17:55:00 -
[7]
nah, squad command just boosts gang link bonuses, so I really doubt it is going to magically become winf command, cause we would still need a skill to boost gang link bonuses.
Which really makes it seem gang bonuses will be by squad.
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Braxxor
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Posted - 2006.10.24 18:07:00 -
[8]
Interesting. So instead of it replacing Squadron Command, now two skills rely on Leadership V? Interesting that getting Squadron Command to V becomes less important, as that only gives you a 10% bonus on warfare link mods, and lets you use the so-so Command Processors.
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Nir
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Posted - 2006.10.24 18:07:00 -
[9]
I guess this is CCP's way of nerfing fleet battles as not to be emberassed by the state of their servers every other weekend.
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Jezala
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.24 18:14:00 -
[10]
I'm a bit confused as to what these new skills do.
Has an artifical limit been placed on how many people in your gang can receive gang bonuses where these new skills just increase that limit or has new gang functions been introduced with Kali?
...and yes, we do sell and deliver ammo. 425 Express Delivery is available upon request, please see Hans Gates and Marcus Grisbius regarding this option. |
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Tunajuice
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Posted - 2006.10.24 18:27:00 -
[11]
10 people per Squad
5 Squads per Wing (50 people per wing)
5 Wings per Fleet (250 people)
So a maxed out fleet commander can have up to 250 people in his "gang"
This hardly reduces blobs, how many blobs went over 250 people? Worse case you have two fleets
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Mineas Argon
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Posted - 2006.10.24 18:42:00 -
[12]
I am wondering if you have the Fleet Command skill, can you still gang a squadron? If you have a squadron, and your bud with another squadron comes along, when you merge them, do you still command the squadron and the wing, so you can command them all, and your buddy can only command his originals, or do you have to relinquish squadron command to someone else (maybe one of your original squadron members), and you can only command the squadron commanders? What happens if you have a wing commander and he drops suddenly; does the whole fleet suffer, or does someone get promoted temporarily? etc, etc.
This better be tested well, with folks jumping in/out, up and down the hierarchy...
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2006.10.24 19:44:00 -
[13]
Will the commander have any special functions like, let's say 2 targeting buttons?
1) Target (the normal one)
2) Target as Primary
That would be really cool
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:11:00 -
[14]
 Originally by: Braxxor
... you can shave quite abit of time (the difference between training a rank 6 from I to V and training a rank 8 from I to V) by doing Squadron Command now, assuming that it automagically switches over to the new skill called "Wing Command" in Kali.
Or it could be a typo =P.
If it's a straight skillpoint conversion/transfer you would drop somewhere low in level 5 though.
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Ozzie Asrail
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.24 21:43:00 -
[15]
such a sucky way of doing things.
"sorry m8 you can't be gang lead because you havn't trained the skills"
"Go home... I can only have 4 people in my gang"
"hi guys can i mine with you, I have gang bonuses" - "Sure, let me kick that new corpmember in his osprey"
sorry but who the **** are ccp to tell me who I can and cant gang with.
Fix your feckin servers so people can actually fight more than 20v20 rather than nerfing everyone and making 99% of eve train some time wating skills.
So now newbs have even more learning+leadership skills simply to be able to play properly?
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ponieus
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.24 22:19:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ozzie Asrail
such a sucky way of doing things.
"sorry m8 you can't be gang lead because you havn't trained the skills"
"Go home... I can only have 4 people in my gang"
"hi guys can i mine with you, I have gang bonuses" - "Sure, let me kick that new corpmember in his osprey"
sorry but who the **** are ccp to tell me who I can and cant gang with.
Fix your feckin servers so people can actually fight more than 20v20 rather than nerfing everyone and making 99% of eve train some time wating skills.
So now newbs have even more learning+leadership skills simply to be able to play properly?
QFT..
just doesnt make snese. I will spell it out for CCP..
LIMITING GANG SIZES WILL NOT MAKE BATTLES SMALLER... you will still have the same server problems.
-----------------------------------------------
ok ok
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Pick Me
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Posted - 2006.10.25 00:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: ponieus
QFT..
just doesnt make snese. I will spell it out for CCP..
LIMITING GANG SIZES WILL NOT MAKE BATTLES SMALLER... you will still have the same server problems.
Everybody know that, even them. So I guess it's for the reform of the gang bonus don't you think?
You know, the thing that goes with the command ships? |
Fuujin
HDY Research Labs
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Posted - 2006.10.25 01:35:00 -
[18]
personally i like the idea of limited gang sizes due to skills, we've needed somehting like this for ages.
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Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes or less, and related to Eve. -Kaemonn |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2006.10.25 01:57:00 -
[19]
rank 8
rank 12
** heads for the newbie corner to weep 
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Olea Avenger
Gallente
GoonWaffe
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.10.25 02:29:00 -
[20]
I am opposed to these skills. Artificial limits are an absolutly horrible idea. This will not stop 200 vs 200 fights in systems that are often triggered over POS warfare. What this will limit is gang lead by newbies who will always need someone with the approriate skills to handle invites and warps. If you say a newbie shouldn't be fleet commanding, I've flown under 2 week old newbies who lead better then 3+ year vets.
Of course when I can login to Singularity with some corp mates, hopefully I can try out the ganging functions. #331 in queue as of now.
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Fuujin
HDY Research Labs
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Posted - 2006.10.25 02:34:00 -
[21]
So invest a few hrs in the skills and be on with it.
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Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes or less, and related to Eve. -Kaemonn |
Cyleth
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.25 04:33:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Fuujin
So invest a few hrs in the skills and be on with it.
Excuse me?
FYI: in order to get big fleet together, you need rank 1, rank 8 and rank 12 charisma based skills on lvl5(that gets you up to 250). You and your few hours.
This is the most retarded thing CCP can do. It doesn't reduce the people taking part on fights. No. Doesn't matter at all. There will allways be exactly same amount of players in the system and fighting. This is not a way to "fix" your bugged code.
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Nobody stays behind |
Philip Sterling
GALAXIAN
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.10.25 04:58:00 -
[23]
It seems to me that people are jumping to some silly conclusions. For one, has anyone from ccp stated that this is intended to limit the size of battles or decrease lag? Secondly, I think there is the potential for some really nice features with gang organization. Presumably, these new skills will allow gangs to be controled in a different way (possibly better).
I do agree, though, that rank 12 is a little rediculous for the fleet command skill.
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Fuujin
HDY Research Labs
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Posted - 2006.10.25 05:20:00 -
[24]
Overall i think the skills are a great addition, the training times on them need to be tweaked though.
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Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes or less, and related to Eve. -Kaemonn |
Cyleth
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.25 05:33:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Cyleth on 25/10/2006 05:34:56
Currently, gang is creating loads of lag in fleet combat. Yes, the gang which is formed and people are in. Gang doesnt need more skills(which everyone is forced to train now *yawn*), it could have more options to manage it tho. I really dont see a reason why I, or anyone else would need a silly skill to form a gang. This is yet another slap on new player's face.
So, this sure looks like a poor attempt to reduce gang size(and hence, trying to reduce lag instead of fixing the silly code).
Altho, this could also be one of those "mini-professions", fiddling around with the gang/wing/fleet/whatever options.
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Nobody stays behind |
Fuujin
HDY Research Labs
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Posted - 2006.10.25 05:44:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Fuujin on 25/10/2006 05:45:40
Edited by: Fuujin on 25/10/2006 05:44:39
Everyone is forced to train? only the gang leaders would really need those skills no?
Besides i think it's worth is simply for the fact that now people might start saying wing instead of gang.
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Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes or less, and related to Eve. -Kaemonn |
Zingu
Gallente
Crafty Productions
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Posted - 2006.10.25 06:30:00 -
[27]
Well, at least this is a grand middle finger straight to all the Achuras out there which I do giggle a bit about. I guess other people will finaly train presence for this.
/emote points at all the base 3 charisma Achuras out there with aspirations and laughs heartily.
Then again you might still be able to transfer leadership of the gang to a player without the needed skills.
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Mangold
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.10.25 06:33:00 -
[28]
The change looks interesting enough but the skills all look like a time sink to me. Leadership level 5 just to have 10 people in gang? 
The comment that only gang leaders needs to train the skills is flawed imho. We usually have lots of people running gang and switch gang leader when people need to afk or log. This means that at least 50% of our alliance would need to train leadership level 5 and another 25% train the next skill to level 3. That feels almost as much of a time sink as Advanced Space ship command.
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d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age
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Posted - 2006.10.25 08:10:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Fuujin
Edited by: Fuujin on 25/10/2006 05:45:40
Edited by: Fuujin on 25/10/2006 05:44:39
Everyone is forced to train? only the gang leaders would really need those skills no?
Besides i think it's worth is simply for the fact that now people might start saying wing instead of gang.
You can never tell who will be online when you need a gang, being able to pull together at least 10 people is going to pretty much a prereq for most pvp people. Being able to hold 40+ is going to be a pre-req for most dedicated gang leaders.....
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SuperID
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Posted - 2006.10.25 08:12:00 -
[30]
Edited by: SuperID on 25/10/2006 08:14:49
Edited by: SuperID on 25/10/2006 08:14:15
If they radically change the way skills affect the gang it will kill the gang skills in total, only one person in the gang needs the skill to have an effect, might not be logical but this is Eve after all. I assume they have taken this into account
My main concern will be when people jump through into a new system what the hell happens if the gang leader jumps last? Does the gang automatically kick people because the 'limit' has been reached? Can you use skills within a jump radius etc.
We can guess at the problems all we want but until we can test I don't think it will help us much. Personally I am optimistic and believe it is an area that a few people need to specialise in to allow better targeting options, or better bonuses when combat boosters and the like come in. e.g. each squadron / wing has a different role and the 'gang lead' can assign different targets to them. I know it's being very hopeful but you never know 
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