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Charisma getting useful, Gang skills and size limits

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:00:00 - [31] Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 25/10/2006 09:03:59 Dont forget: A Fleet Commander can command 5 Wings. A Wing Commander can command 5 Squads and a Squad can hold 10 people. To get that fleet of 250 people though, you will need a Fleet commander (Rank 1, 8 & 12 skill at V), in addition to needing 5 Wing Commanders (Rank 1 + 8 at level V) aswell as 25 Squadron Commanders (Rank 1 skill at level V). And thats adds up; a Fleet commander cannot double as a Wing Commander or Squadron Commander. A Wing Commander cannot double as a Squadron Commander. That means in a fleet of 250 people, 31 people will need to be training these skills. 25 Of them only require Leadership V, but even Wing Command will take ages to train for most people. Adding new Charisma skills = good. Making them required isnt though. (This is ofcourse, if im reading it correctly.) It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:23:00 - [32] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 25/10/2006 09:24:06 Tbh they should make the skills either Rank 1, 3 and 6 respectivly. 1, 8 and 12 is just over the top ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:01:00 - [33] It's not THAT hard sigh Part of forum movement known as "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö" To be Kali, or not to be Lagi
Jinryu Nasake	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:43:00 - [34] I like the idea, it brings a new militaristic Component into Battles. Just right for a former Battlefield 2 Player. Training Three Skills really shouldn't be that hard with Empathy on a high Level i think.
Hardin Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:14:00 - [35] Regarding the new gang skills all I want to say is this: I've got 27 charisma I've got 27 charisma I've got 27 charisma Yipee \0/ ------------------------------
Temerlyn Minmatar STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:31:00 - [36] It is important to note, though it maybe a changed concept now. Origionally one of the tech 2 Battleship design concepts was a flag ship that had command bonuses and such. It still might be in consideration thus the reason for the x12 skill for fleet command. Just a thought.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:44:00 - [37] Edited by: DB Preacher on 25/10/2006 11:45:41 Someone made the proposal to put this in before and I said then it was a stupid idea. I have to say that unless it is actually used for better control of gangs or something then it is a complete and utter waste of time. Now we have to have 10 people ganging folks up instead of one dude doing it. genius dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Inen Minmatar OLE Mining Corp Miners With Attitude	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:24:00 - [38] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 25/10/2006 09:24:06 Tbh they should make the skills either Rank 1, 3 and 6 respectivly. 1, 8 and 12 is just over the top I agree OR make it so that fleet command requires level IV wind command.
Cyleth Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:27:00 - [39] Originally by: Kuolematon This is something that I have always wondered why there isn't anything for gangs to limit 'em via skills. Now there is and it's kinda kewl. Hopefully this will reduce blobwars and enforce small pack ganks. See, the thing is, this wont limit a single blob out there. Or are you saying that people will turn back cause other people say "hey, you can't be here, my gang has 100 people now, shush". No. There will be exactly as many people and as big blobs as before, the difference is, some of the people are not in gangs but are still there. This is nothing but a halfassed try to reduce people in gang/system because the current code with gangs is royally bugged. It would be totally different story if these skills were somehow usefull regarding gang managing but limiting people, heh. -- Nobody stays behind
swoj The New Order.	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:38:00 - [40] does seem that most people are thinking the gang changes are a 'nerf gang sizes' feature, however CCP have been talking about reorganising gangs for a while. Having 1 leader with 30, 50 or whatever number of people in their gang is just not practical. Look at the army and how they operate (most armies for that matter), when there is a war, you don't get 1 general going into battle with 200 troops directly reporting to him. At each level of command from the ground up, each person would only have 6 or 7 people reporting to them. It's called the 'chain of command'. Eve, IMO, needs this.. maybe not for mining operations, but for combat, structure is needed. The tackle squad can get on with their job with out getting distracted by the chat of the BS pilots, etc. Will have to see how the gang sizes affect things once they hit TQ, the PvP people will likely adapt quickly to this (many will have training leadership skills for the bonuses already) however the indy folk are likely to be hardest hit as leadership has been fairly irrelevant to them until now (Miner skills excepted).

AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:46:00 - [41] Achura Monks are currently dancing in the streets over this. Originally by: Wrangler Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:47:00 - [42] Originally by: swoj does seem that most people are thinking the gang changes are a 'nerf gang sizes' feature, however CCP have been talking about reorganising gangs for a while. Having 1 leader with 30, 50 or whatever number of people in their gang is just not practical. Look at the army and how they operate (most armies for that matter), when there is a war, you don't get 1 general going into battle with 200 troops directly reporting to him. At each level of command from the ground up, each person would only have 6 or 7 people reporting to them. It's called the 'chain of command'. Eve, IMO, needs this.. maybe not for mining operations, but for combat, structure is needed. The tackle squad can get on with their job with out getting distracted by the chat of the BS pilots, etc. Will have to see how the gang sizes affect things once they hit TQ, the PvP people will likely adapt quickly to this (many will have training leadership skills for the bonuses already) however the indy folk are likely to be hardest hit as leadership has been fairly irrelevant to them until now (Miner skills excepted). I agree that restructing gangs is cool, but adding a rank 8 and 12 skill to train just to be able to get back to our old level of gang leadership is a pretty lame timesink... ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Empirechecker	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:54:00 - [43] If this actually limits gang size it's easily the worst decision CCP has ever made, and thats saying a lot. If it adds new functionality to the gangs, like the ability to have all ships lock a primary, or have all ships align with the gangleader, then I'm for it. "Hey Dave! The POSes are under attack! we gotta move it!" "No Can do bobby, the FC isn't on, lets just do the best we can and sit around with our thumbs up our asses"
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:12:00 - [44] I would not be surprised to see them all prereqs of each other so need squad command 5 to get wing command, wing command 5 to get fleet command. My main concern is how will gang links work, will they simply be shared within a squad, or pass through to the wings an gangs? With the squadron command skill boositng ganglinks, it makes it seem it will be shared only thorugh squads, which will boost BC usage.
Minnow maught Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:57:00 - [45] I see a lot of whining in this thread but does anyone actually know how this works? I read the skill descriptions and I read it to mean that you do NOT require 25 people to run a gang/squad/fleet of 250 people but require 1 person to have the skill at that level. I'm sure I'd be whining with the rest of you if it was confirmed how this works .... (wouldn't it be nice for CCP to explain the intended functionality rather than give us cryptic skill descriptions for a change). Can anyone confirm (through testing) that: a) you need multiple gang/squad leaders? b) How the gang assist and normal gang skill bonuses are distributed? c) IF you require these gang leaders / squad leader / fleet leaders, how does this work? 25 people form gangs then the squad leaders each form gangs with 5 of the gang leaders and then the fleet commander forms a gang with the 5 squad leaders ? or is it as I suspect, it only actually requires 1 gang leader with all the relevant skills?
untook Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:04:00 - [46] Hmmm, so 200 ppl in gang, what happens if the gang leader drops? Does the gang disintegrate?
Shoele Lialos Gallente Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:17:00 - [47] Question for those on the test server. If you're able to get those skills. Are there options for: Warp Squadron Warp Wing Warp Fleet It would strike me that at each level the Commander would be able to take all of his guys with him in a warp, this being the flexibility that such organization can give you.
Spazzle GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:45:00 - [48] Edited by: Spazzle on 25/10/2006 20:45:17 No matter the implementation, requiring skills to make gangs is utterly inane, and requiring a rank 8 skill to progess past medium sized gangs is insulting. Do gangs need overhauls? Yes they do, its a pain in the ass to invite people, to control the tactical situation, and to be in charge of warping people around. There definitely needs to be some form of shared leadership. If the speculations are true though, gangs have gone from being a hastle to an utter nightmare. We really need an explicit response from CCP about what is going on here.
Justin Marr Evisceration.	Posted - 2006.10.25 21:47:00 - [49] Ack, rank 8 and 12 is over the top imo. Ignorance is Curable, Stupidity is Forever.
Buraken v2 Amarr Amarr Defence Initiative	Posted - 2006.10.25 21:53:00 - [50] Originally by: Rafein http://imagesocket.com/view/leader6e1.png Linkage Quote: Mail from: Houvire Takaerne 2006.06.06 19:25 Our research has been fruity. If you're interested, I believe I have found what might be a banana in the corner of my office draw.

Roxanna Kell BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.10.25 22:04:00 - [51] even if i had 30 charisma, i wouldn't bother with this sT. time sink Quote:** "Don't touch the RED b
Fuujin HDY Research Labs	Posted - 2006.10.26 01:46:00 - [52] Good skills but training time needs to be lower. I'm sure they implimented the skills for something long run. _______________ Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes or less, and related to Eve. -Kaemonn


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