EVE Search - Charisma getting useful, Gang skills and size limits

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Skill Discussions

Charisma getting useful, Gang skills and size limits

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.24 16:41:00 - [1] http://imagesocket.com/view/leader6e1.png
Braxxor	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:04:00 - [2] Edited by: Braxxor on 24/10/2006 17:04:10 Edited by: Braxxor on 24/10/2006 17:03:56 Neat idea. Though I might lower the number of Squads and Wings that could be managed by one person so as to limit the size of blobs... or at least make a large blob alot harder to manage (as they would have to divide into multiple gangs). Also, I assume that warfare link modules would apply to your entire Fleet, and not just your own individual gang/squad/wing?
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:07:00 - [3] Edited by: Rafein on 24/10/2006 17:07:29 unknown, hoping to find out soon. but could need a gang link per squad, for more balanced squadsm and to push people in BC's.
Jintoo Cranspar	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:08:00 - [4] So what is Squadron Command going to add?
Malena Perpetual Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:23:00 - [5] So a squadron is up to 10 members then? And with each level of skill it seems like you add 10 more...so a total of 10 for leadership 5+50 for squadron command 5+ 250 for wing command 5....so a total of 310 max gang... ROFL=your own little node killing fleet/lag fest. <shudders at the thought of sending out that many invites>
Braxxor	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:37:00 - [6] It's kinda interesting... if you wanna handle a large gang, one thing to note... current Squadron Command skill is a rank 6 skill. It's being replaced with Wing Command, which is a rank 8 skill. They are one in the same as both requires only Leavership V. Therefore... you can shave quite abit of time (the difference between training a rank 6 from I to V and training a rank 8 from I to V) by doing Squadron Command now, assuming that it automagically switches over to the new skill called "Wing Command" in Kali. Or it could be a typo =P.
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:55:00 - [7] nah, squad command just boosts gang link bonuses, so I really doubt it is going to magically become winf command, cause we would still need a skill to boost gang link bonuses. Which really makes it seem gang bonuses will be by squad.
Braxxor	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:07:00 - [8] Interesting. So instead of it replacing Squadron Command, now two skills rely on Leadership V? Interesting that getting Squadron Command to V becomes less important, as that only gives you a 10% bonus on warfare link mods, and lets you use the so-so Command Processors.
Nir	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:07:00 - [9] I guess this is CCP's way of nerfing fleet battles as not to be emberassed by the state of their servers every other weekend.
Jezala Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:14:00 - [10] I'm a bit confused as to what these new skills do. Has an artifical limit been placed on how many people in your gang can receive gang bonuses where these new skills just increase that limit or has new gang functions been introduced with Kali? ...and yes, we do sell and deliver ammo. 425 Express Delivery is available upon request, please see Hans Gates and Marcus Grisbius regarding this option.

Tunajuice	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:27:00 - [11] 10 people per Squad 5 Squads per Wing (50 people per wing) 5 Wings per Fleet (250 people) So a maxed out fleet commander can have up to 250 people in his "gang" This hardly reduces blobs, how many blobs went over 250 people? Worse case you have two fleets
Mineas Argon	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:42:00 - [12] I am wondering if you have the Fleet Command skill, can you still gang a squadron? If you have a squadron, and your bud with another squadron comes along, when you merge them, do you still command the squadron and the wing, so you can command them all, and your buddy can only command his originals, or do you have to relinquish squadron command to someone else (maybe one of your original squadron members), and you can only command the squadron commanders? What happens if you have a wing commander and he drops suddenly; does the whole fleet suffer, or does someone get promoted temporarily? etc, etc. This better be tested well, with folks jumping in/out, up and down the hierarchy...
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:44:00 - [13] Will the commander have any special functions like, let's say 2 targeting buttons? 1) Target (the normal one) 2) Target as Primary That would be really cool
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2006.10.24 20:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Braxxor ... you can shave quite abit of time (the difference between training a rank 6 from I to V and training a rank 8 from I to V) by doing Squadron Command now, assuming that it automagically switches over to the new skill called "Wing Command" in Kali. Or it could be a typo =P. If it's a straight skillpoint conversion/transfer you would drop somewhere low in level 5 though.
Ozzie Asrail FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:43:00 - [15] such a sucky way of doing things. "sorry m8 you can't be gang lead because you havn't trained the skills" "Go home... I can only have 4 people in my gang" "hi guys can i mine with you, I have gang bonuses" - "Sure, let me kick that new corpmember in his osprey" sorry but who the **** are ccp to tell me who I can and cant gang with. Fix your feckin servers so people can actually fight more than 20v20 rather than nerfing everyone and making 99% of eve train some time wating skills. So now newbs have even more learning+leadership skills simply to be able to play properly? -----
ponieus Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.24 22:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Ozzie Asrail such a sucky way of doing things. "sorry m8 you can't be gang lead because you havn't trained the skills" "Go home... I can only have 4 people in my gang" "hi guys can i mine with you, I have gang bonuses" - "Sure, let me kick that new corpmember in his osprey" sorry but who the **** are ccp to tell me who I can and cant gang with. Fix your feckin servers so people can actually fight more than 20v20 rather than nerfing everyone and making 99% of eve train some time wating skills. So now newbs have even more learning+leadership skills simply to be able to play properly? QFT.. just doesnt make snese. I will spell it out for CCP.. LIMITING GANG SIZES WILL NOT MAKE BATTLES SMALLER... you will still have the same server problems. ----------------------------------------------- ok ok
Pick Me	Posted - 2006.10.25 00:16:00 - [17] Originally by: ponieus QFT.. just doesnt make snese. I will spell it out for CCP.. LIMITING GANG SIZES WILL NOT MAKE BATTLES SMALLER... you will still have the same server problems. Everybody know that, even them. So I guess it's for the reform of the gang bonus don't you think? You know, the thing that goes with the command ships?
Fuujin HDY Research Labs	Posted - 2006.10.25 01:35:00 - [18] personally i like the idea of limited gang sizes due to skills, we've needed somehting like this for ages. _______________ Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes or less, and related to Eve. -Kaemonn
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2006.10.25 01:57:00 - [19] rank 8 rank 12 ** heads for the newbie corner to weep
Olea Avenger Gallente GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.10.25 02:29:00 - [20] I am opposed to these skills. Artificial limits are an absolutly horrible idea. This will not stop 200 vs 200 fights in systems that are often triggered over POS warfare. What this will limit is gang lead by newbies who will always need someone with the approriate skills to handle invites and warps. If you say a newbie shouldn't be fleet commanding, I've flown under 2 week old newbies who lead better then 3+ year vets. Of course when I can login to Singularity with some corp mates, hopefully I can try out the ganging functions. #331 in queue as of now.

Fuujin HDY Research Labs	Posted - 2006.10.25 02:34:00 - [21] So invest a few hrs in the skills and be on with it. _______________ Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes or less, and related to Eve. -Kaemonn
Cyleth Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.25 04:33:00 - [22] Originally by: Fuujin So invest a few hrs in the skills and be on with it. Excuse me? FYI: in order to get big fleet together, you need rank 1, rank 8 and rank 12 charisma based skills on lvl5(that gets you up to 250). You and your few hours. This is the most retarded thing CCP can do. It doesn't reduce the people taking part on fights. No. Doesn't matter at all. There will allways be exactly same amount of players in the system and fighting. This is not a way to "fix" your bugged code. -- Nobody stays behind
Philip Sterling GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.10.25 04:58:00 - [23] It seems to me that people are jumping to some silly conclusions. For one, has anyone from ccp stated that this is intended to limit the size of battles or decrease lag? Secondly, I think there is the potential for some really nice features with gang organization. Presumably, these new skills will allow gangs to be controled in a different way (possibly better). I do agree, though, that rank 12 is a little rediculous for the fleet command skill.
Fuujin HDY Research Labs	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:20:00 - [24] Overall i think the skills are a great addition, the training times on them need to be tweaked though. _______________ Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes or less, and related to Eve. -Kaemonn
Cyleth Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:33:00 - [25] Edited by: Cyleth on 25/10/2006 05:34:56 Currently, gang is creating loads of lag in fleet combat. Yes, the gang which is formed and people are in. Gang doesnt need more skills(which everyone is forced to train now yawn), it could have more options to manage it tho. I really dont see a reason why I, or anyone else would need a silly skill to form a gang. This is yet another slap on new player's face. So, this sure looks like a poor attempt to reduce gang size(and hence, trying to reduce lag instead of fixing the silly code). Altho, this could also be one of those "mini-professions", fiddling around with the gang/wing/fleet/whatever options. -- Nobody stays behind
Fuujin HDY Research Labs	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:44:00 - [26] Edited by: Fuujin on 25/10/2006 05:45:40 Edited by: Fuujin on 25/10/2006 05:44:39 Everyone is forced to train? only the gang leaders would really need those skills no? Besides i think it's worth is simply for the fact that now people might start saying wing instead of gang. _______________ Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes or less, and related to Eve. -Kaemonn
Zingu Gallente Crafty Productions	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:30:00 - [27] Well, at least this is a grand middle finger straight to all the Achuras out there which I do giggle a bit about. I guess other people will finaly train presence for this. /emote points at all the base 3 charisma Achuras out there with aspirations and laughs heartily. Then again you might still be able to transfer leadership of the gang to a player without the needed skills.
Mangold Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:33:00 - [28] The change looks interesting enough but the skills all look like a time sink to me. Leadership level 5 just to have 10 people in gang? The comment that only gang leaders needs to train the skills is flawed imho. We usually have lots of people running gang and switch gang leader when people need to afk or log. This means that at least 50% of our alliance would need to train leadership level 5 and another 25% train the next skill to level 3. That feels almost as much of a time sink as Advanced Space ship command.
d'hofren Queens of the Stone Age	Posted - 2006.10.25 08:10:00 - [29] Originally by: Fuujin Edited by: Fuujin on 25/10/2006 05:45:40 Edited by: Fuujin on 25/10/2006 05:44:39 Everyone is forced to train? only the gang leaders would really need those skills no? Besides i think it's worth is simply for the fact that now people might start saying wing instead of gang. You can never tell who will be online when you need a gang, being able to pull together at least 10 people is going to pretty much a prereq for most pvp people. Being able to hold 40+ is going to be a pre-req for most dedicated gang leaders.....
SuperID	Posted - 2006.10.25 08:12:00 - [30] Edited by: SuperID on 25/10/2006 08:14:49 Edited by: SuperID on 25/10/2006 08:14:15 If they radically change the way skills affect the gang it will kill the gang skills in total, only one person in the gang needs the skill to have an effect, might not be logical but this is Eve after all. I assume they have taken this into account My main concern will be when people jump through into a new system what the hell happens if the gang leader jumps last? Does the gang automatically kick people because the 'limit' has been reached? Can you use skills within a jump radius etc. We can guess at the problems all we want but until we can test I don't think it will help us much. Personally I am optimistic and believe it is an area that a few people need to specialise in to allow better targeting options, or better bonuses when combat boosters and the like come in. e.g. each squadron / wing has a different role and the 'gang lead' can assign different targets to them. I know it's being very hopeful but you never know

Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:00:00 - [31] Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 25/10/2006 09:03:59 Dont forget: A Fleet Commander can command 5 Wings. A Wing Commander can command 5 Squads and a Squad can hold 10 people. To get that fleet of 250 people though, you will need a Fleet commander (Rank 1, 8 & 12 skill at V), in addition to needing 5 Wing Commanders (Rank 1 + 8 at level V) aswell as 25 Squadron Commanders (Rank 1 skill at level V). And thats adds up; a Fleet commander cannot double as a Wing Commander or Squadron Commander. A Wing Commander cannot double as a Squadron Commander. That means in a fleet of 250 people, 31 people will need to be training these skills. 25 Of them only require Leadership V, but even Wing Command will take ages to train for most people. Adding new Charisma skills = good. Making them required isnt though. (This is ofcourse, if im reading it correctly.) It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:23:00 - [32] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 25/10/2006 09:24:06 Tbh they should make the skills either Rank 1, 3 and 6 respectivly. 1, 8 and 12 is just over the top ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:01:00 - [33] It's not THAT hard sigh Part of forum movement known as "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö" To be Kali, or not to be Lagi
Jinryu Nasake	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:43:00 - [34] I like the idea, it brings a new militaristic Component into Battles. Just right for a former Battlefield 2 Player. Training Three Skills really shouldn't be that hard with Empathy on a high Level i think.
Hardin Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:14:00 - [35] Regarding the new gang skills all I want to say is this: I've got 27 charisma I've got 27 charisma I've got 27 charisma Yipee \0/ ------------------------------
Temerlyn Minmatar STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:31:00 - [36] It is important to note, though it maybe a changed concept now. Origionally one of the tech 2 Battleship design concepts was a flag ship that had command bonuses and such. It still might be in consideration thus the reason for the x12 skill for fleet command. Just a thought.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:44:00 - [37] Edited by: DB Preacher on 25/10/2006 11:45:41 Someone made the proposal to put this in before and I said then it was a stupid idea. I have to say that unless it is actually used for better control of gangs or something then it is a complete and utter waste of time. Now we have to have 10 people ganging folks up instead of one dude doing it. genius dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Inen Minmatar OLE Mining Corp Miners With Attitude	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:24:00 - [38] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 25/10/2006 09:24:06 Tbh they should make the skills either Rank 1, 3 and 6 respectivly. 1, 8 and 12 is just over the top I agree OR make it so that fleet command requires level IV wind command.
Cyleth Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:27:00 - [39] Originally by: Kuolematon This is something that I have always wondered why there isn't anything for gangs to limit 'em via skills. Now there is and it's kinda kewl. Hopefully this will reduce blobwars and enforce small pack ganks. See, the thing is, this wont limit a single blob out there. Or are you saying that people will turn back cause other people say "hey, you can't be here, my gang has 100 people now, shush". No. There will be exactly as many people and as big blobs as before, the difference is, some of the people are not in gangs but are still there. This is nothing but a halfassed try to reduce people in gang/system because the current code with gangs is royally bugged. It would be totally different story if these skills were somehow usefull regarding gang managing but limiting people, heh. -- Nobody stays behind
swoj The New Order.	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:38:00 - [40] does seem that most people are thinking the gang changes are a 'nerf gang sizes' feature, however CCP have been talking about reorganising gangs for a while. Having 1 leader with 30, 50 or whatever number of people in their gang is just not practical. Look at the army and how they operate (most armies for that matter), when there is a war, you don't get 1 general going into battle with 200 troops directly reporting to him. At each level of command from the ground up, each person would only have 6 or 7 people reporting to them. It's called the 'chain of command'. Eve, IMO, needs this.. maybe not for mining operations, but for combat, structure is needed. The tackle squad can get on with their job with out getting distracted by the chat of the BS pilots, etc. Will have to see how the gang sizes affect things once they hit TQ, the PvP people will likely adapt quickly to this (many will have training leadership skills for the bonuses already) however the indy folk are likely to be hardest hit as leadership has been fairly irrelevant to them until now (Miner skills excepted).

AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:46:00 - [41] Achura Monks are currently dancing in the streets over this. Originally by: Wrangler Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:47:00 - [42] Originally by: swoj does seem that most people are thinking the gang changes are a 'nerf gang sizes' feature, however CCP have been talking about reorganising gangs for a while. Having 1 leader with 30, 50 or whatever number of people in their gang is just not practical. Look at the army and how they operate (most armies for that matter), when there is a war, you don't get 1 general going into battle with 200 troops directly reporting to him. At each level of command from the ground up, each person would only have 6 or 7 people reporting to them. It's called the 'chain of command'. Eve, IMO, needs this.. maybe not for mining operations, but for combat, structure is needed. The tackle squad can get on with their job with out getting distracted by the chat of the BS pilots, etc. Will have to see how the gang sizes affect things once they hit TQ, the PvP people will likely adapt quickly to this (many will have training leadership skills for the bonuses already) however the indy folk are likely to be hardest hit as leadership has been fairly irrelevant to them until now (Miner skills excepted). I agree that restructing gangs is cool, but adding a rank 8 and 12 skill to train just to be able to get back to our old level of gang leadership is a pretty lame timesink... ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Empirechecker	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:54:00 - [43] If this actually limits gang size it's easily the worst decision CCP has ever made, and thats saying a lot. If it adds new functionality to the gangs, like the ability to have all ships lock a primary, or have all ships align with the gangleader, then I'm for it. "Hey Dave! The POSes are under attack! we gotta move it!" "No Can do bobby, the FC isn't on, lets just do the best we can and sit around with our thumbs up our asses"
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:12:00 - [44] I would not be surprised to see them all prereqs of each other so need squad command 5 to get wing command, wing command 5 to get fleet command. My main concern is how will gang links work, will they simply be shared within a squad, or pass through to the wings an gangs? With the squadron command skill boositng ganglinks, it makes it seem it will be shared only thorugh squads, which will boost BC usage.
Minnow maught Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:57:00 - [45] I see a lot of whining in this thread but does anyone actually know how this works? I read the skill descriptions and I read it to mean that you do NOT require 25 people to run a gang/squad/fleet of 250 people but require 1 person to have the skill at that level. I'm sure I'd be whining with the rest of you if it was confirmed how this works .... (wouldn't it be nice for CCP to explain the intended functionality rather than give us cryptic skill descriptions for a change). Can anyone confirm (through testing) that: a) you need multiple gang/squad leaders? b) How the gang assist and normal gang skill bonuses are distributed? c) IF you require these gang leaders / squad leader / fleet leaders, how does this work? 25 people form gangs then the squad leaders each form gangs with 5 of the gang leaders and then the fleet commander forms a gang with the 5 squad leaders ? or is it as I suspect, it only actually requires 1 gang leader with all the relevant skills?
untook Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:04:00 - [46] Hmmm, so 200 ppl in gang, what happens if the gang leader drops? Does the gang disintegrate?
Shoele Lialos Gallente Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:17:00 - [47] Question for those on the test server. If you're able to get those skills. Are there options for: Warp Squadron Warp Wing Warp Fleet It would strike me that at each level the Commander would be able to take all of his guys with him in a warp, this being the flexibility that such organization can give you.
Spazzle GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:45:00 - [48] Edited by: Spazzle on 25/10/2006 20:45:17 No matter the implementation, requiring skills to make gangs is utterly inane, and requiring a rank 8 skill to progess past medium sized gangs is insulting. Do gangs need overhauls? Yes they do, its a pain in the ass to invite people, to control the tactical situation, and to be in charge of warping people around. There definitely needs to be some form of shared leadership. If the speculations are true though, gangs have gone from being a hastle to an utter nightmare. We really need an explicit response from CCP about what is going on here.
Justin Marr Evisceration.	Posted - 2006.10.25 21:47:00 - [49] Ack, rank 8 and 12 is over the top imo. Ignorance is Curable, Stupidity is Forever.
Buraken v2 Amarr Amarr Defence Initiative	Posted - 2006.10.25 21:53:00 - [50] Originally by: Rafein http://imagesocket.com/view/leader6e1.png Linkage Quote: Mail from: Houvire Takaerne 2006.06.06 19:25 Our research has been fruity. If you're interested, I believe I have found what might be a banana in the corner of my office draw.

Roxanna Kell BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.10.25 22:04:00 - [51] even if i had 30 charisma, i wouldn't bother with this sT. time sink Quote:** "Don't touch the RED b
Fuujin HDY Research Labs	Posted - 2006.10.26 01:46:00 - [52] Good skills but training time needs to be lower. I'm sure they implimented the skills for something long run. _______________ Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes or less, and related to Eve. -Kaemonn


Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.