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Jav torps nerfed ?

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Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:04:00 - [1] Ha-ha-ha! Torpedo t2 Raven is almost crap(no tank, no nos, no mwd, nothing), but with javelin nerfing it will be completely useless. CCP, would you be so kind to exchange useless torp skills for something more useful?
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:11:00 - [2] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/10/2006 17:07:52 "Slightly" overpowered? :) Its about time that those things get in line with the other weapons. I would hope that they get a range reduction too, because they are meant to be SHORT RANGE weapons with that kind of damage. I would like to repeat for you "Torpedo t2 Raven is almost crap." use it only in small gangs having excellent commander. With latest changes torpedo t2 Raven does not exist at all as warship.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:17:00 - [3] Originally by: Eilie Edited by: Eilie on 24/10/2006 17:12:25 Good, torps arn't supposed to be better than cruise missiles. Thats why torps skill is rank4 and cruise is rank5. And yes, torps (like rockets and the new heavy assualt missiles) are supposed to be short range, while standard, heavy, and cruise missiles are the lower dmg but far range weapons! looks that you never saw quickfit. Open this beatiful prgram and look for fitting requirements for torpedoes and explain why torpedos require impossible for Raven PG and impossible even for Raven CPU being worse than cruise missiles? For what hell they exist at all?
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:22:00 - [4] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 24/10/2006 17:19:31 Okay, complete stats for the nerfed Bane and Inferno Javs (unnerfed in brackets)[T1 torp in []] Exp Radius: 400m (300m)[400m] Flight time: 12.5s (25s)[30s] Max. Velocity: 3750m/s (3750 m/s)[1250m/s] Max. Velocity Penalty: -20% (-20%)[0] Exp. Velocity: 500m/s (500 m/s)[250m/s] Damage: 380 (450)[450] Now I know I only use them for PvE so my opinion does not count, but I think this is quite a bit too extreme. Nerf the flight time and even the exp velocity for all I care, but keep the radius and damage the same. But now we have good news, torp Raven is nerfed to death and we, caldari, have one setup to use, cruise. I really want reimbursement of my torpedo skill.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:24:00 - [5] Originally by: Tassi Why is only bane and inferno nerfed? certainly it is bug, and all will be nerfed to death.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:24:00 - [6] Originally by: Jim McGregor Dont forget that they nerfed the turret ammo damage as well. Yes? How much? 50%?
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:36:00 - [7] Originally by: Rehmes You seem to forget that they are meant to be used in gangs. MOst if not all caldari ships (this includes amar) are meant to be more effective in gangs. Just cuz people use raven as solo ships doesnt mean that they are meant to be used as such. T2 Torp ravens dont suck as you seem to point out, otherwise the ship wouldnt be seen in pvp at all tbh. This is not really a nerf but rather a measure taken to bring an overpowered weapon down to the others' capabilities. Javelin dps now is below CRUISE DPS. For what hell shoudl I use torps? And care about fitting? Rage fit is usable only with zillion painters + few webbers + covert + . How many time you have zillion painters? And in any case it is NOT SUITABLE for FLEET BATTLE. And now it is ABSOLUTELY NOT SUITABLE for SMALL GANGS. You cannot kill with javelin(lock time+flight time), but you may scare enemy. At least stupid enemy which cannot use MWD to tank javelins. Now you may scare only industrial. Sometimes. When it is not tanked.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:43:00 - [8] Edited by: Zixxa on 24/10/2006 17:45:12 Originally by: Butter Dog so? take out some of the stabs from your lowslots and use fitting modules fitting a full rack of torps is no problem for anyone but the most retarded raven pilot You are so *tarded, or just noobish? Every idiot in the game could fit anything using RCU and CPU, but it is for small price no damage mods no damage controls no sensor backups(ever heard, dude?) And even with this modules it is NOT EASY to fit MWD 6 Sieges, some kind of tank and heavy NOS.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:52:00 - [9] Originally by: Tassi If they nerf it like the way Leandro posted they will be useless and redundant. However, some nerf should be there because they are ridiculously overpowered, yes I use them you can still run normal torps for bs fights or rage + painter setups. Fury cruiser is better than normal torpedos. Rage torpedoes are too specific to be useful anywhere except real fleet command. Painters, webbers, inetl, coverts, etc. With damage output comparable to the standard guhship. And impossibility to use these toprs raven in fleet battle.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:57:00 - [10] Originally by: Tassi than we will all switch to the drake? No, cuz in a turn drake will be nerfed too. And all missile weapon. I am switching to Gallente and Rokh. Because Rokh is for gallente it will be never nerfed.

Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:05:00 - [11] Originally by: Tassi Are you stupid? No. I am clever. And I am switching to Gallente. Do you follow me?
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:15:00 - [12] There is no place to nerf further javelin in terms of damage. AFAIR it only 25% more damage that fury cruise. 10% less damage for javelin and you have to fit fury cruise, it is much more effective, simple to fit and precision cruise much more useful than javelins.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:23:00 - [13] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Tassi Rage got a boost? what?? Say goodbye to 1000m explosion radius... and hello to a 600m radius. Great deal! Turn on MWD and be happy. With 100 m/sec explosion it is required some webbing toooooooo. And correct distance tooooo. And for Raven "famous" with its speed, agility, lots of PG to fit MWD and few free low slots to fit some nanos it is easy task. What the level of stupidity!
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:31:00 - [14] Originally by: Butter Dog An MWD will give the average BS a sig radius of 2200. So won't they just hit for full damage? Because of explosion velocity. 5 times reduced damage half, 6 times reduced damage to 80%, 7 times(700m/sec - easy for any BS in game)reduces damage almost to zero. Guys, I am tired to explain so simple things. May be you will have some time to read the FAQ???
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 20:47:00 - [15] Originally by: Gabriel Karade A Tank/Gank torpedo raven with T1 torps leaves a Blasterthron with T2 ammo (Void L) dead if the starting range is >15km. Even <15km it's too damn close considering the range that Raven can hit out to. You lie. Period.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:23:00 - [16] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade A Tank/Gank torpedo raven with T1 torps leaves a Blasterthron with T2 ammo (Void L) dead if the starting range is >15km. Even <15km it's too damn close considering the range that Raven can hit out to. You lie. Period. You have no idea what you are talking about little noob, run along now. Go-go to pilot "kindergarden", may be it helps to you
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:35:00 - [17] Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Because of explosion velocity. 5 times reduced damage half, 6 times reduced damage to 80%, 7 times(700m/sec - easy for any BS in game)reduces damage almost to zero. Guys, I am tired to explain so simple things. May be you will have some time to read the FAQ??? 500 m/s = 93% base damage 600 m/s = 89% base damage 700 m/s = 85% damage Are you idiot? Never seen rage trops in action? So expecially for you, noobie, CCP created good missile guide where explained how high speed of targets protect you(noobie-forever) from missiles. Because real life warfare is not for you. Quote: That's still more than a T1 torp. If you HAVE ENOUGH TP IN RANGE. Quote: Please go back to arguing for stabs, it seems more your cup of tea. Please, get away, u dum noob. You do not understad eve basics of the gameplay and have experience of the trial user before tutorial.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 22:24:00 - [18] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade A Tank/Gank torpedo raven with T1 torps leaves a Blasterthron with T2 ammo (Void L) dead if the starting range is >15km. Even <15km it's too damn close considering the range that Raven can hit out to. You lie. Period. You have no idea what you are talking about little noob, run along now. Go-go to pilot "kindergarden", may be it helps to you They should just ban alts from the forums... Anyway read the post above, and as I stated there, this is not simply 'theory' this is what happens in practice, unless of course you don't know how to fit a Tank/Gank Torp Raven. ...I mean you are less than a month into the game afterall... Go-go to kinderarden and read "arythmeticss for dumbs" Mega kill time 5(str)+7(arm)+30(shield) = 42sec Raven kill time 6(str)+32(arm)+15(shield) = 56 sec Raven is dead, and left your quickfit theory for your mommy. Also I wonder how happy Raven choosing the only right missile. Shaman?
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 23:14:00 - [19] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 24/10/2006 22:54:50 Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Gabriel Karade A Tank/Gank torpedo raven with T1 torps leaves a Blasterthron with T2 ammo (Void L) dead if the starting range is >15km. Even <15km it's too damn close considering the range that Raven can hit out to. You lie. Period. You have no idea what you are talking about little noob, run along now. Go-go to pilot "kindergarden", may be it helps to you They should just ban alts from the forums... Anyway read the post above, and as I stated there, this is not simply 'theory' this is what happens in practice, unless of course you don't know how to fit a Tank/Gank Torp Raven. ...I mean you are less than a month into the game afterall... Go-go to kinderarden and read "arythmeticss for dumbs" Mega kill time 5(str)+7(arm)+30(shield) = 42sec Raven kill time 6(str)+32(arm)+15(shield) = 56 sec Raven is dead, and left your quickfit theory for your mommy. Also I wonder how happy Raven choosing the only right missile. Shaman? Oh I feel a forum warning coming up, but by all means keep it up Firstly I never use quickfit, from what I've seen of other peoples use it uses too many errors. Secondly re-read the numbered assumptions in my post. Those kill times are only applicable if both ships start stationary within the 2.6km optimal of Void L. Thirdly this isn't an exercise in number crunching (my arithmetic is just fine thanks) this is tried and tested. Please, stop. You are wrong, cuz you a) choose good Mega setup for Raven b) choose best missile for Raven c) forgot to count structure and shield for Mega and structure with armour for Raven Skilled Mega pilot will eat Raven in above metioned setup. There is nothing to discuss.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:48:00 - [20] Edited by: Zixxa on 25/10/2006 06:48:31 Originally by: Gabriel Karade Ah so we've run out of arguments now have we? No, and main arg is you are paper tiger. Quote: What do you not understand about "Tried and tested"? Level of your tardness? Quote:* What do you not understand about "assumes both ships start stationary, sat 2.6km away"? (I didn't 'forget' about structure/armour on the Raven, I was illustrating the point of Kill times vs the tanked layer under perfect and completely unrealistic starting conditions for the Megathron to be in. You forgot about everythig except to chose best damage type for Raven. Quote: Any semi-intelligent Raven pilot knows a Megathron is armour tanked, and given it starts with base EXP resistance of 10% - should thus be throwing Bane torpedos at the tank. Please, left your delirium for a doctor. Even super intelligent pilot like me rarely know that next ship in encouter will be Mega. And too many armour tanked ships taked against explosive Quote: At less than 15km, for comparable skills, the Megathron wins, barely surviving on structure. At greater than 15km the extra damage taken spells doom for the Megathron - it's that simple, and it's not as if it isn't well known (apart from in this thread apparently), it's been tested enough on TQ and Sisi. Test it now in REAL ENCOUNTER. Solo Mega will ALWAYS RUN AWAY having bad distance and ALWAYS KILL torp RAVEN having right distance. Torp solo Raven CAN KILL OLY COMPLETELY RETARDED Mega pilot. Feel the difference.

Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:59:00 - [21] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Most smart Raven pilots carry a mix of damage types seen as they loose no DPS for using Explosive over for example EM. Yea - But 10 sec for reload. - difficult to guess how BS is tanked. FYI, in real duel encounter blaster Mega > torp Raven.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:03:00 - [22] Originally by: Kaylana Syi I would like to repeat for you "Torpedo t2 Raven is almost crap." use it only in small gangs having excellent commander. With latest changes torpedo t2 Raven does not exist at all as warship. You have to be absolutely insane to believe your own words. It is just because your pitiful alliance doesn't know what is real fleet battle. When you will get some lessons from the Real Alliances you will also understand why torp raven is bull**, cruise raven is even bigger bull**. But without javelin torp t2 raven is completely useless, cruise t2 raven will do it job much better in every aspect.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:19:00 - [23] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio In the above fight though, if you were really engaged by that raven at 15km. You could mwd away from it and warp away. So the raven can tank/gank the mega. The mega gets to choose if it fights or not. The inherant disadvantage of caldari is if you setup to pwn other things solo, you have almost no way to hold them down in reality. Yeah, the Raven isnt a great solo PvP ship. Thats true. Wow, you have to agree? I do not believe. Also Raven is bull** in fleet battles. Quote:** But its the KING of solo PvE, which the mega absolutely sucks at. Who cares about PvE? Mission runners in empire? And I know few other kings of PvE, including Dominix, command ships, HACs, etc.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:30:00 - [24] Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio You forget that they kill BS faster. It's kind of a big difference. In SMALL gang encounters. In AVERAGE/BIG gang encounters Raven is crap.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:36:00 - [25] Originally by: Butter Dog Well 100% of the playerbase PvE's at some point. But who cares about PvE after few months? Who? It is easy on any ship. Quote: And the Raven is the perfect ship for it, hell even I trained 3 weeks to use a Raven for PvE and it does better than my Mega which I have been training for over a year. Oh, try to use Dominix. It's at least as good as Raven for PvE. Quote: But Javelins were ridiculous and needed a change. Javelins was not so useful(you don't know why, but just believe). They generate good damage, was dangerous for small ships, etc. But cruise missiles were only slightly worse against battleships and better than javelins against cruiser-size and lesser ships. After nerf javelins are useless everywhere, because cruise t2 outperforms javelins in every aspect of the battle.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:39:00 - [26] Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio Didn't I tell you to stop posting in 10 different threads already? I am ingoring you. Quote: Yes, yes, you said the same thing again. Raven's are crap in large fleet battles. No one cares. That's not a problem with the raven, its a problem with missles in general. Caldari can train for the rokh if they want to be part of the wonderful pvp world of the lagfest we call fleet battles. Yes, you are right. 70-90 days of traing for t2 hybrids and you have chance to be helpful in fleet battle.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:15:00 - [27] Good post, James! Look at torpedos closer. It is just some kind of trash compared to cruise missile.(Of course, few exceptions exist ) But with javeline it may be useful! Of course, no tank, no NOS, little of protection, difficult fitting, PvP only, etc. But useful. If you are nerfing javeline, you are killing torpedo as weapon.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:05:00 - [28] Without t2 ammo best choice not t2(even if skills allow), but Arbalest. Easier to fit. Usually either better damage(additional BCS) or better tank. Period.

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