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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
606
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Posted - 2015.04.03 18:50:06 -
[1] - Quote
This is hopefully a collection thread and some general information on how to fit a ship. This topic comes up so often that I felt the need to give some general pointers on how to do so.
Some of you readers may have noticed over a long period of time that one my standard answers to that question is that you buy the ship, some modules and dock in a station. Then assemble the ship, open your fitting screen and drag your modules on said screen.
That may sound condescending and rude but I have noticed that even that step may not be known by everyone.
Why do I even bring this up?
Fitting a ship to your needs cannot be answered by looking on third-party websites and only leads to bad decision making in the process.
First, you need to ask yourself the right questions before you can ask for advice. So in this thread I will collect those questions for you and add some according to your input.
Please do not post any fittings here since it is more for information gathering and giving at least some most asked questions one of many answers.
Let's begin with some questions, you need to answer yourself, not us:
- what do I want to do with xyz ship?
-> pvp or pve comes to mind and for better reading I will leave out special purposes out
- how do I fit xyz ship?
-> In any and all cases, please read the 'traits' of xyz ship since it gives you valuable information what kind of ship it is and what would be a good idea to fit like what guns, what tank, which propulsion or any propulsion at all.
This gives you some more questions and fitting can be an adventure on its own.
Let's fit an example ship and for this thread let's assume by guns I mean turrets, drones and missiles alike.
After reading the 'traits' on this example ship, you know it has a bonus for guns and is a plain regular tech one cruiser class ship.
In most subcaptial ship classes there are four different ways to fit a ship:
- The long range gun, active tank - The long range gun, buffer tank -The short range gun, active tank -The short range gun, buffer tank
What you need to know as a noob is that not all of those combat fits are a good idea to fit for all available ships. Only very few ship can fit all four different variations and some don't make sence at all.
Another rule of thumb is that you have to pay close attention to the slot configuration on the fitting screen. This configuration can tell you if you would want to have a shield or an armor tank and in most cases more medium than lowslots mean, you want to fit one of two shield variations. More lowslots than med-slots mean that you would want to fit one of the armor-tank variations.
There is currently an increasing number of hull-tank, which I will leave out for now, since I isn't something new players will want to do.
If our example cruiser here does fit a shield or armor tank is not decided by the slot configuration you see on your fitting screen. We have two options available for shield and armor tanks, with up and downsides and which one is the lesser evil for you, I will let you decide.
In general active tanks mean that you have to micro-manage more active modules in space while are in more or less stressful situations and the one obvious downside is that those consume a ton your ships capacitor. That means for any active, your capacitor is your ships life!
Buffer tanks have downsides too but they are also very different from one another. Shield buffer fits are the most forgiving fits for newer and more experienced players but armor buffer fits are much less forgiving. The reason is simple here, shields do recharge over time and armor plates do not. So an armor buffer needs to be repaired each time you dock again and shield buffers only need time to regenarate. But as offset to shields and armor, armor plates give your much more ehp and shield give you less ehp but do not let this discourage you from trying both at some point.
Another case can be made that you can mix armor plates and active armor reps but in no case you should mix shield buffer and active shield boosting fits.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
607
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Posted - 2015.04.03 19:19:52 -
[2] - Quote
Oh sorry, that was a little longer than I wanted but I hope this will answer some most asked questions.
Everything I told you so far is only a rule of thumb, and there are only very few rules on how to fit a ship and which modules are allowed and which ones are only to fit on one special ship.
Now let's dig a little deeper and start with the high-slots:
- Those slots usually fit guns and or utility modules but let's focus on the guns first. The 'traits' tab should have given you an idea which of the guns you want to fit on our example cruiser so let's do that and continue with the medium-slots.
- Medium slots: Here it get's a little tricky because you will have to have made up your mind if your ship should be fit with shields or not. But don't freak out just yet. Remember that I just told you that your fitting screen will have made that desicion for you according to your on screen slot configuration.
But now comes the most difficult desicion part and now that trade-off begin to emerge.
Your medium slots a limited and have to share not only your tank or not but your propulsion, capacitor management and electronic warfare or not.
Let us take the Moa as an example and say we want a shield buffer-fit. So we would have fit 5x heavy neutron blaster II's and want to have a microwarpdrive, since moving fast can decide a win or a loss. So we fit an experimental mwd and 2x large shield extender aaaand Aura starts to yell at you!
You don't have enough powergrid to fit all this
This is your first tradeoff. In order to fit that mwd and the shield extenders, you have to make a choice, do you ditch the mwd for an afterburner (naaaah) or do I ditch all the guns and take the smaller versions? Let's not be so quick to dismiss the most wanted modules on your ship just yet and keep it on.
So after fitting heavy ion blasters, you will have enough powergrid to please your needs to keep Aura happy - yeay
Now you still have 2 more slots to fill here, maybe go for the strenghts (which you also find in the 'traits' tab) and build on that. So to even strenghten your shield buffer on that Moa, you decide to fit an adaptive invulnerablility field.
But now you only have one more slot to go and so many options
In my case I decide to fit a warp scrambler in this last medium-slot - there is no escaping my Moa and you would want pin someones ship and prevent it from flying away from you.
In case of a Thorax, you have to reconsider for an active armor tank and have more options to fill your med slots to either put more electronic warfare on your target or make his guns almost useless - up to you but consider that active tank need tons of your capacitor so you may want to consider at least one module for capacitor management - a capacitor booster which in additon to your guns also need ammunition
- And let's go to the last row - the low slots.
Here you need to make some more tradeoffs, depending on your tank-configuration.
Your low-slots and only so much and here you need to share either propulsion upgrades, weapon upgrades, armor repair modules for an active tank, armor plates for an armor buffer or a mix of the two.
In case the Moa, you don't need any of armor modules to consider but in all cases consider the most wanted modules for all ships - the damage control system.
I cannot stress enough on how important this module is - in 99.9% of all cases you will want one on your ship.
But remember, in case you fit an armor ship you need to share your low-slots with said damage-control-unit, armor resistance modules, weapon upgrades and or armor plates and or armor repair modules.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
607
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Posted - 2015.04.03 19:32:43 -
[3] - Quote
Sorry for the wall of text.
Now for the last case, you will have different options: pve (mining or ratting or missions or exploration or hauling)
I put ratting and (combat-)missions into one category, since you want to shoot stuff but it is optional and in most cases only to fill your wallet to buy ship and modules.
When you do missions or rat (combat anomalies or shooting Guristas in an asteroid belt) you do not need to have electronic warfare, since NPC's ship only want to shoot you and do not care much if you disrupt their gun tracking or damp their targetting locks down.
In all my time in EVE I only succefully jammed two NPC's in my Rook and they just flew out of the ECM optimal range and came back to shoot the ship after failing said jam.
You may have guessed by now that for those purposes you may want to add more tank or consider a more capacitor stable setup or even both.
The only 'bad' thing you can do here would be to loose your ship - in that case your fit has failed to deliver.
So take your time to ask yourself the most important question first:
What do you want to do with your ship?
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
91
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Posted - 2015.04.03 23:37:28 -
[4] - Quote
Thank you for covering this and it's a good ABC summary of fitting process. But make it worth it should be twice longer and detailedto cover all those hidens while you are fitting your first frig or cruiser etc.
As well as there are some good tutorial on youtube from well known newb supporters who do tell and show how and what to do. Cause you know reading a blanket text became boring very soon. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
614
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Posted - 2015.04.04 00:09:51 -
[5] - Quote
I know it does but I have a problem covering alot of information in a short text and if I start to shorten things a little, people might get upset that I don't include xxx or whatnot, so this is some more general approach.
You can all contribute by adding special cases or special tanks, like the rise of bulkheads but I didn't want to confuse the newbies more than they already are.
And to be honest would you read it all, if I put like a whole page of text here?
But feel free to add your own ideas. I just wanted to start a collection of information, a guide of sorts.
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
91
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Posted - 2015.04.04 00:33:44 -
[6] - Quote
If i'm newbe and i'm looking for some guidance i would deff read. Might be good if you also link some screenshots. In regard of trade offs you could also cover implants and modules tiercade meta vs t2. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1133
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Posted - 2015.04.04 00:44:50 -
[7] - Quote
might need a TL;DR part at the beginning. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
614
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Posted - 2015.04.04 00:53:31 -
[8] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:might need a TL;DR part at the beginning.
I am up for suggestions, so if you would assist me, I'll add it on top of the thread.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
614
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Posted - 2015.04.04 00:59:31 -
[9] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:If i'm newbe and i'm looking for some guidance i would deff read. Might be good if you also link some screenshots. In regard of trade offs you could also cover implants and modules tiercade meta vs t2.
Excellent idea!
I can cover this more in detail and make screenshots too but I doubt they will be of any help - at least not from my character since I have most subcapital fitting skills and ship skills at the magic V already.
However, don't be discouraged to send me links to some screens and we can put them here, since I wanted to encourage all your input as guidance for newbies and veterans alike.
This may sound as surprise but even some veterans might need a little guidance in the art of fitting
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1136
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Posted - 2015.04.04 01:25:01 -
[10] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:might need a TL;DR part at the beginning. I am up for suggestions, so if you would assist me, I'll add it on top of the thread.
condense the most important parts:
1. Fitting layout 2. Traits
into bullet points at top of the thread. Some people just need that guideline and if theyre still interested they can read the rest of the thread. |
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
614
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Posted - 2015.04.04 01:37:35 -
[11] - Quote
Thank you, will do!
I also made a request for a sticky, so this would go to the top and stay there. Please have a little patience with the tl;dr, it's late and get back to it tomorrow.
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Rear Admiral Barrington
Percussus Resurgo. Spaceship Bebop
0
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Posted - 2015.04.04 13:00:52 -
[12] - Quote
This fails to ask the really important question: "Is this the right hull for the role I'm trying to fill?"
Hull choice really isn't something you should be considering until after you've clearly defined the problem you're trying to solve and decided how much you're willing to spend.
Even after that, you probably shouldn't decide on a hull until you've looked at a variety of different candidate fits and compared their stats and strengths and weaknesses. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
948
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Posted - 2015.04.04 13:32:42 -
[13] - Quote
I'd appreciate formatting, so... underlining headers and numerical points with a table of content for easier searching. And please remove all those smileys, lacking the former i tried using these as reference point when jumping lines.
Just to get some focus on the 'choose task' 'choose hull' 'fit ship accordingly' aspects.
Then would be nice if every detail you explain would be in the form of topic explanation
or
Lastly 4 Mining/pve Maximum yield/damage output without dying in the process....
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4274
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Posted - 2015.04.04 16:15:20 -
[14] - Quote
As of now this thread is stickied.
Keep it on topic and informative please!
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
617
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Posted - 2015.04.05 14:01:16 -
[15] - Quote
Rear Admiral Barrington wrote:This fails to ask the really important question: "Is this the right hull for the role I'm trying to fill?"
Hull choice really isn't something you should be considering until after you've clearly defined the problem you're trying to solve and decided how much you're willing to spend.
Even after that, you probably shouldn't decide on a hull until you've looked at a variety of different candidate fits and compared their stats and strengths and weaknesses.
You are right but I only wanted to create a general information guide on fitting a ship, not a tactical advise thread - if you want I can make one in 'Warfare and Tactics'.
But don't rely on my for that and don't shy away to make your own. Tactics are vital to your success but it wouldn't fit the 'Ships and modules' section.
Let me make an honorable mention of Azual Skoll's blog about EVE who just returned from a longer brake. Some of his entries are dated but I would read them anyway since they also contain a little bit of history and in order to move forward you should also know from where you come from, where we come from.
As long as I am citizen of New Eden I will keep this updated and though the process of fitting ships might change most principles will just stay the same even if they look different.
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Silver Dagger Kondur
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
40
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Posted - 2015.06.12 18:27:48 -
[16] - Quote
elitatwo - good writeup!
Choosing that weapon system (as part of your fit)
FWIW - Long range weapons - slower rate of fire. Better chance to miss. Due to distance, you may receive less damage. Need a friend to point (hold down) the target as you may be way too far away to do that yourself. PVE, no point person needed. Short range weapons - faster rate of fire, means much quicker kills. You expose self to more hits. You can point your enemy yourself. Missiles - long and short range - as above, but they never miss. The cost is the time it takes them to get to the target, which may not matter with HAMs (Heavy Assual Missiles) or Lights, as you are already on top of the target. Time lets you be hit several times before, say, your Cruise missile gets to its target. Time is critical to win, especially if you are in a small hull.
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ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
716
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Posted - 2017.01.02 21:07:46 -
[17] - Quote
Reopened.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1562
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Posted - 2017.01.02 23:41:18 -
[18] - Quote
ISD Max Trix wrote:Reopened.
Thank you! I will get to it sometime this week, can't promise when.
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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elitatwo
Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1632
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Posted - 2017.03.12 19:34:08 -
[19] - Quote
Here are some numbers for avid logistic pilots. Those numbers are the maximum values you can squeeze out of logistic ships and the t1 cruisers and frigates.
Keep in mind, I don't fly minmatar or mediocre stuff, so the values of the scythe can be of.
- What does 1 or 2 mean? it means meta or t2
- what does 4x1 or 3x2 mean? In a fleet setup you go for maximum effect you fit 3x rep and 2x cap on the t1 ones and 4 reps and 2x cap for the t2 cruisers.
tech one cruiser-------------------------------------
Exequror 1 = 182 + 70 = 252 Exequror 2 = 208 + 70 = 278
Augoror fleet 1 = 182 armor + 129.6 cap Augoror fleet 2 = 208 armor + 140.4 cap
Osprey fleet 1 = 183 shield + 129.6 cap Osprey fleet 2 = 207.375 shield + 140.4 cap
scythe 1 = 126.75 + 64.8 = 191.55 shield scythe 2 = 143.625 + 64.8 = 208.425 shield
Logistic cruiser-------------------------------------
Basilisk 4x1 = 300 shield + 36 shield + 129.6 cap Basilisk 4x2 = 340 shield + 36 shield + 140.4 cap
Guardian 4x1 = 298.66 armor Guardian 4x2 = 341.33 armor
scimitar 1 = 300 shield + 64.8 = 364.8 shield scimitar 2 = 340 shield + 64.8 = 404.8 shield
Oneiros 4x2 = 341.33 + 70 = 411.33 armor Oneiros 4x1 = 298.66 + 70 = 368.66 armor
Basilisk / Guardian drones = 36 shield / 35 armor / 17.5 hull Exequror / Oneiros drones = 72 shield / 70 armor / 40 hull
Logistic frigates-----------------------------------------
Deacon t2 = 125.22
Thalia t2 = 125.22
Kirin t2 = 128
tech one frigates------------------------------------------
Bantam base 1 = 84.75 Bantam base 2 = 96
I left the other t1 frigates out but you can safely assume that the remote repair values are similar. Feel free to ask questions as long as the thread is open.
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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