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Maelstrom - stop kidding yourselfs

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Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:56:00 - [1] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 13:56:53 This baby is going to be totally devastating with autocannons. You can put 8 of the highest tier autocannons on it (since its designed for artillery it will have lots of grid), slap on a monster tank and damage mods in the lows. Its only disadvantage is that its a bit slow, so you put a nano in one of the lows to fix it. But seriously, its annoying me that people try to think of it as a artillery boat, when the Tempest will ALWAYS be better for it. You dont boost shields in a fleet and everybody knows it. This whole story reminds me of "Dont mention the war" in Faulty Towers... everybody is thinking one thing, but are discussing something else. Or maybe everybody arent. I am, anyway. :) The bonuses scream autocannons and thats how it will be used. So dont kid yourselfs... Discuss. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:11:00 - [2] I wonder if CCP still have this philosophy of introducing new ships and content pre-nerfed. That's a scary thought, looking at, err, every new ship bar the Abbadon. It's great being Amarr, aint it?
starship enginer	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:24:00 - [3] erm i wouldnt think it will be used much as a AC boat tbh its sig is much higher than a tempest, the problem being torp ravens dont do full dmg to a tempest the temp can fit 2x heavy nosf although this ship with the following might be ok 8x 800 t2 mwd: 20km, 2invol, xl-booster, heavy cap inj 3x dmg mod. 2x nanos
Chode Rizoum Minmatar Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:26:00 - [4] its not gonner be a solo AC ship.. but for groups is gonner be nice, where you have a tackler.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:30:00 - [5] Originally by: starship enginer although this ship with the following might be ok 8x 800 t2 mwd: 20km, 2invol, xl-booster, heavy cap inj 3x dmg mod. 2x nanos Yep, something like that. And not only OK... I think it will be quite good. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:36:00 - [6] a good AC boat? eh? apart from not having the cargo space for cap charges and ammo and the tempest outdamaging it if you fit any kind of missile thingies in the remaining highs, or better yet you stay with 2 nos. ok with tacklers you can have some kind of a shield tank, which will die fast when cap charges run out. and its not like you'll have many with 550m¦ cargo and a 33% higher ammo use than AC pest.
Bazman Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:36:00 - [7] You don't need any speed with it when all the kiddies get their hotshot souped up Hyperions running around. "Pah? A Hyperion?" /mael tanks and rips the Hype a new hole ----- Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. I am a Gallente Whiner. Minmatar Whining is currently in training.
Vera Nosfyu Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:41:00 - [8] FINALLY! Someone who agrees with me about this ship! The Mael is going to make an amazing skirmish/ganking boat. Either with AC's or mid-range artillery fire. ----------------------------------------------------------- "Violence solves all problems, no man, no problem." --Josef Stalin
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:44:00 - [9] I'll be using it with A/C's for sure. Sniping is so dull. Personally I couldn't care less what way it was supposed to be used. ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:50:00 - [10] is this supposed to be sarcasm? oO every stat of the mael screams artillery boat, except the shield boost bonus the small cargobay the high lock range slow and heavy and no falloff bonus compared to the tempest it either does less dmg if tempi fits 2 launchers, or tempi does roughly equal dmg on top having 2 nos killing the opponents tank i can see it being used in small gangs with ac's but imo its far away from what you think it could do granted alot depends on just how slow and heavy it will handle ultimately Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:07:00 - [11] Originally by: Tiuwaz compared to the tempest it either does less dmg if tempi fits 2 launchers, or tempi does roughly equal dmg on top having 2 nos killing the opponents tank This is what Tuxford said in his blog too, but he didnt consider that a typical Tempest will only use 2 damage mods since its sharing the lowslots with the tank. Also the Maelstrom looks to have the grid for 8 of the 800 II, while Tempest usually have 6x 650 II and 2 nos/2 launchers. A Maelstrom with 3 damage mods and 8 800 II WILL outdamage the Tempest with 6 650 II and 2 siege launcher II by about 50 dps with Barrage, and 100 dps with Hail. This is before the ammo changes though, so I dont know about afterwards. So not only will it have more damage, but its shield tank should be able to soak up more short term damage compared to the Tempests armor tank. However, if the Tempest is nossing the Maelstrom, things might change. Unless the Maelstrom fits 2 nos itself. So I dont know... does the ship really suck that bad? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Al Haquis Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:16:00 - [12] So I dont know... does the ship really suck that bad? So no "The Sky is falling attitude "? With love from Al Haquis
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Al Haquis So I dont know... does the ship really suck that bad? So no "The Sky is falling attitude "? With love from Al Haquis Naah. Like you said in that other thread... artillery is for wimen! --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:17:00 - [14] Originally by: Jim McGregor So I dont know... does the ship really suck that bad? nah it's ok. the abaddon makes it look good
Rin Eyre Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:27:00 - [15] So, how long it will be firing with full cargo of ammo and BS5+3xGyro? Just curious .
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:29:00 - [16] Originally by: Jim McGregor So I dont know... does the ship really suck that bad? as an AC boat? well tbh a lot of that depends how it will handle, but it got a 25m/s worse base speed and ~12% more mass than the tempest, or to put it in other terms: Mael has the same base speed as a Raven! AND a 5% higher mass oO, a frack raven is more agile than you if you put on a mwd then your great shield tank wont last very long, well a mwd is pretty much a waste with that mass you basically have to wait for something to come into your range, and even a raven will be able to kite you xD the theoretical good tank and the bigger droney bay are tempting for closerange but you pretty much have to rely on your opponents to come to you, and any real closerange boat like the hyperion will ***you then well this is just my view with the facts i have, i could be wrong but i doubt it Originally by:** Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Rockbox Amarr Veto.	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:31:00 - [17] Edited by: Rockbox on 25/10/2006 15:32:02 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 13:56:53 This baby is going to be totally devastating with autocannons. You can put 8 of the highest tier autocannons on it (since its designed for artillery it will have lots of grid), slap on a monster tank and damage mods in the lows. Its only disadvantage is that its a bit slow, so you put a nano in one of the lows to fix it. But seriously, its annoying me that people try to think of it as a artillery boat, when the Tempest will ALWAYS be better for it. You dont boost shields in a fleet and everybody knows it. This whole story reminds me of "Dont mention the war" in Faulty Towers... everybody is thinking one thing, but are discussing something else. Or maybe everybody arent. I am, anyway. :) The bonuses scream autocannons and thats how it will be used. So dont kid yourselfs... Discuss. OMG! Thank you! ffs its blatently gonna rock ass! Just use 1 good nano and an mwd, tank it to hell...some damage mods...omguberdps! However obviously... like most shield tanking ships, you dont want to run solo, with a tackler this ship will be nasty! Visit us at VETO FORUMS!!1!
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:36:00 - [18] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 13:56:53 This baby is going to be totally devastating with autocannons. You can put 8 of the highest tier autocannons on it (since its designed for artillery it will have lots of grid), slap on a monster tank and damage mods in the lows. Its only disadvantage is that its a bit slow, so you put a nano in one of the lows to fix it. But seriously, its annoying me that people try to think of it as a artillery boat, when the Tempest will ALWAYS be better for it. You dont boost shields in a fleet and everybody knows it. This whole story reminds me of "Dont mention the war" in Faulty Towers... everybody is thinking one thing, but are discussing something else. Or maybe everybody arent. I am, anyway. :) The bonuses scream autocannons and thats how it will be used. So dont kid yourselfs... Discuss. actually 650mm are equal if not better than 800mm but i don't see this ship very suited for close range... why? simply because its dps is too low and is too vulnerable to nos... you have huge tank... you get a pair of nos on you and you are dead in a pair on mins... you remove a pair of guns to fit noses and here that you end up with a sort of slower tempest with better tank but worse dps
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:47:00 - [19] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 15:49:50 Originally by: Ath Amon actually 650mm are equal if not better than 800mm but i don't see this ship very suited for close range... why? simply because its dps is too low and is too vulnerable to nos... you have huge tank... you get a pair of nos on you and you are dead in a pair on mins... you remove a pair of guns to fit noses and here that you end up with a sort of slower tempest with better tank but worse dps No, the ship has higher dps than the Tempest since it can use 3 damage mods instead of 2 (see my post above with details) and can fit the top tier guns. And about the nos, well, that can be said for any shield tanker. If you put a pair of nos on a raven, his tank eventually fail. You just have to survive until it does, and thats the tricky part. Maelstrom will have 80 higher dps with 8x 800 II than the raven does with siege, if both are using 3 damage mods. If the Maelstrom switches to Hail, it will have almost 350 higher dps than the Raven. Of course you might not use Hail vs a shield tank, but you get my drift... Then Raven is of course only using its 6 launchers and have 2 slots for nos as well. But the much higher dps of the Maelstrom up close should even out the field abit. Im not saying the ship will beat a Raven, but it will have higher dps up close once you get there. Much like the Megathron, except this ship has a shield tank. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jonay 3B Legio IX Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:51:00 - [20] Originally by: starship enginer erm i wouldnt think it will be used much as a AC boat tbh its sig is much higher than a tempest, the problem being torp ravens dont do full dmg to a tempest the temp can fit 2x heavy nosf although this ship with the following might be ok 8x 800 t2 mwd: 20km, 2invol, xl-booster, heavy cap inj 3x dmg mod. 2x nanos And don't forget 4 webber drones.
Frezik Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:53:00 - [21] Originally by: Jim McGregor But seriously, its annoying me that people try to think of it as a artillery boat . . . The bonuses scream autocannons and thats how it will be used. So dont kid yourselfs... The bonuses do scream autocannons. The problem is that CCP thinks it's a fleet/artillery machine. If it's going to be an AC platform, than it needs its speed, agility, and cargo size increased, with pg/cpu adjusted as needed. If it's going to be an arty platform, than it needs the ROF bonus changed to damage, and the shield boost bonus changed into a resistance or hp bonus. Personally, I'd rather see a new AC boat, as I'm rather fond of the "office chair rolling down stairs with uzis" style of combat.
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:53:00 - [22] Edited by: Tiuwaz on 25/10/2006 15:53:26 Originally by: Jim McGregor Then Raven is of course only using its 6 launchers and have 2 slots for nos as well. But the much higher dps of the Maelstrom up close should even out the field abit. Im not saying the ship will beat a Raven, but it will have higher dps up close once you get there. Much like the Megathron, except this ship has a shield tank. how you gonna get close to a raven that has same base speed and less mass than you? if you use a mwd and raven not then i doubt you'll be able to outlast the raven which also fields 2 nos also mael dps sucks :O only 6% higher than tempest + 1 more heavy drone at the expense of no nos edit: if you use webber drones you can slowboat to it i guess xD Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Rin Eyre Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:54:00 - [23] Nobody was intrested, so I've done math myself... ~3.4 rounds per second, ~200 rounds per minute, ~25-30 minutes of constant fire... with full cargo of Barrage L. Is that ok?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:56:00 - [24] The speed is a problem, yeah. To be really good it needs a speed boost, but I think in the mean time we will have to put 2 nanos in the lows. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:03:00 - [25] Originally by: Ath Amon raven can eventually fit 2 nos and keep a decent dps so is way less vulnerable. Raven doesnt have shield boost bonus. And the Maelstrom can fit 6x 650/800 II and still do equal damage to the raven, while also nossing him. Also the Maelstrom can use EW drones, or webber drones. Ravens drone space is crap. But Ok, maybe it wont beat a Raven, but then its really only in the same situation as the Megathron. And nobody thinks thats a bad ship, do they? Ok, problems getting in range, yeah... but thats it. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Ath Amon raven can eventually fit 2 nos and keep a decent dps so is way less vulnerable. Raven doesnt have shield boost bonus. And the Maelstrom can fit 6x 650/800 II and still do equal damage to the raven, while also nossing him. Also the Maelstrom can use EW drones, or webber drones. Ravens drone space is crap. But Ok, maybe it wont beat a Raven, but then its really only in the same situation as the Megathron. And nobody thinks thats a bad ship, do they? Ok, problems getting in range, yeah... but thats it. mah i'm a bit sceptical but maybe it will work... eheh must admit that i was fitting an ac mael before sisi decided it didn't like me instead i will be very curious to see how it will perform with 10% shield/hps and a passive tank... that could be quite interesting
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:14:00 - [27] Originally by: Ath Amon mah i'm a bit sceptical but maybe it will work... eheh must admit that i was fitting an ac mael before sisi decided it didn't like me instead i will be very curious to see how it will perform with 10% shield/hps and a passive tank... that could be quite interesting Try both setups and report back. I cant get into SiSi because my account expired. Serves me right for using time cards I guess... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Rin Eyre Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:18:00 - [28] Originally by: Jim McGregor But Ok, maybe it wont beat a Raven, but then its really only in the same situation as the Megathron. And nobody thinks thats a bad ship, do they? Ok, problems getting in range, yeah... but thats it. I think it's a crap ship. Because its "versatility" truly comes from outer space. That's like having ballpen with integrated razor for morning shave. Or handgun welded to medieval tower shield... or many other strange things.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:19:00 - [29] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 16:19:31 Originally by: Rin Eyre I think it's a crap ship. Because its "versatility" truly comes from outer space. That's like having ballpen with integrated razor for morning shave. Or handgun welded to medieval tower shield... or many other strange things. Well, at least as a autocannon ship, its using both its bonuses. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:20:00 - [30] So what you guys are saying is that you want a low SP sliepnir. Lets not forget you are wasting about 9k of powergrid and need a whole lot of ifs to even do what you want to do with it. If people fly it like this I can't wait to utterly wear them like pants with a Typhoon. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats

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