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Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:56:00 - [1] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 13:56:53 This baby is going to be totally devastating with autocannons. You can put 8 of the highest tier autocannons on it (since its designed for artillery it will have lots of grid), slap on a monster tank and damage mods in the lows. Its only disadvantage is that its a bit slow, so you put a nano in one of the lows to fix it. But seriously, its annoying me that people try to think of it as a artillery boat, when the Tempest will ALWAYS be better for it. You dont boost shields in a fleet and everybody knows it. This whole story reminds me of "Dont mention the war" in Faulty Towers... everybody is thinking one thing, but are discussing something else. Or maybe everybody arent. I am, anyway. :) The bonuses scream autocannons and thats how it will be used. So dont kid yourselfs... Discuss. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:11:00 - [2] I wonder if CCP still have this philosophy of introducing new ships and content pre-nerfed. That's a scary thought, looking at, err, every new ship bar the Abbadon. It's great being Amarr, aint it?
starship enginer	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:24:00 - [3] erm i wouldnt think it will be used much as a AC boat tbh its sig is much higher than a tempest, the problem being torp ravens dont do full dmg to a tempest the temp can fit 2x heavy nosf although this ship with the following might be ok 8x 800 t2 mwd: 20km, 2invol, xl-booster, heavy cap inj 3x dmg mod. 2x nanos
Chode Rizoum Minmatar Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:26:00 - [4] its not gonner be a solo AC ship.. but for groups is gonner be nice, where you have a tackler.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:30:00 - [5] Originally by: starship enginer although this ship with the following might be ok 8x 800 t2 mwd: 20km, 2invol, xl-booster, heavy cap inj 3x dmg mod. 2x nanos Yep, something like that. And not only OK... I think it will be quite good. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:36:00 - [6] a good AC boat? eh? apart from not having the cargo space for cap charges and ammo and the tempest outdamaging it if you fit any kind of missile thingies in the remaining highs, or better yet you stay with 2 nos. ok with tacklers you can have some kind of a shield tank, which will die fast when cap charges run out. and its not like you'll have many with 550m¦ cargo and a 33% higher ammo use than AC pest.
Bazman Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:36:00 - [7] You don't need any speed with it when all the kiddies get their hotshot souped up Hyperions running around. "Pah? A Hyperion?" /mael tanks and rips the Hype a new hole ----- Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. I am a Gallente Whiner. Minmatar Whining is currently in training.
Vera Nosfyu Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:41:00 - [8] FINALLY! Someone who agrees with me about this ship! The Mael is going to make an amazing skirmish/ganking boat. Either with AC's or mid-range artillery fire. ----------------------------------------------------------- "Violence solves all problems, no man, no problem." --Josef Stalin
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:44:00 - [9] I'll be using it with A/C's for sure. Sniping is so dull. Personally I couldn't care less what way it was supposed to be used. ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:50:00 - [10] is this supposed to be sarcasm? oO every stat of the mael screams artillery boat, except the shield boost bonus the small cargobay the high lock range slow and heavy and no falloff bonus compared to the tempest it either does less dmg if tempi fits 2 launchers, or tempi does roughly equal dmg on top having 2 nos killing the opponents tank i can see it being used in small gangs with ac's but imo its far away from what you think it could do granted alot depends on just how slow and heavy it will handle ultimately Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:07:00 - [11] Originally by: Tiuwaz compared to the tempest it either does less dmg if tempi fits 2 launchers, or tempi does roughly equal dmg on top having 2 nos killing the opponents tank This is what Tuxford said in his blog too, but he didnt consider that a typical Tempest will only use 2 damage mods since its sharing the lowslots with the tank. Also the Maelstrom looks to have the grid for 8 of the 800 II, while Tempest usually have 6x 650 II and 2 nos/2 launchers. A Maelstrom with 3 damage mods and 8 800 II WILL outdamage the Tempest with 6 650 II and 2 siege launcher II by about 50 dps with Barrage, and 100 dps with Hail. This is before the ammo changes though, so I dont know about afterwards. So not only will it have more damage, but its shield tank should be able to soak up more short term damage compared to the Tempests armor tank. However, if the Tempest is nossing the Maelstrom, things might change. Unless the Maelstrom fits 2 nos itself. So I dont know... does the ship really suck that bad? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Al Haquis Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:16:00 - [12] So I dont know... does the ship really suck that bad? So no "The Sky is falling attitude "? With love from Al Haquis
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Al Haquis So I dont know... does the ship really suck that bad? So no "The Sky is falling attitude "? With love from Al Haquis Naah. Like you said in that other thread... artillery is for wimen! --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:17:00 - [14] Originally by: Jim McGregor So I dont know... does the ship really suck that bad? nah it's ok. the abaddon makes it look good
Rin Eyre Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:27:00 - [15] So, how long it will be firing with full cargo of ammo and BS5+3xGyro? Just curious .
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:29:00 - [16] Originally by: Jim McGregor So I dont know... does the ship really suck that bad? as an AC boat? well tbh a lot of that depends how it will handle, but it got a 25m/s worse base speed and ~12% more mass than the tempest, or to put it in other terms: Mael has the same base speed as a Raven! AND a 5% higher mass oO, a frack raven is more agile than you if you put on a mwd then your great shield tank wont last very long, well a mwd is pretty much a waste with that mass you basically have to wait for something to come into your range, and even a raven will be able to kite you xD the theoretical good tank and the bigger droney bay are tempting for closerange but you pretty much have to rely on your opponents to come to you, and any real closerange boat like the hyperion will ***you then well this is just my view with the facts i have, i could be wrong but i doubt it Originally by:** Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Rockbox Amarr Veto.	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:31:00 - [17] Edited by: Rockbox on 25/10/2006 15:32:02 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 13:56:53 This baby is going to be totally devastating with autocannons. You can put 8 of the highest tier autocannons on it (since its designed for artillery it will have lots of grid), slap on a monster tank and damage mods in the lows. Its only disadvantage is that its a bit slow, so you put a nano in one of the lows to fix it. But seriously, its annoying me that people try to think of it as a artillery boat, when the Tempest will ALWAYS be better for it. You dont boost shields in a fleet and everybody knows it. This whole story reminds me of "Dont mention the war" in Faulty Towers... everybody is thinking one thing, but are discussing something else. Or maybe everybody arent. I am, anyway. :) The bonuses scream autocannons and thats how it will be used. So dont kid yourselfs... Discuss. OMG! Thank you! ffs its blatently gonna rock ass! Just use 1 good nano and an mwd, tank it to hell...some damage mods...omguberdps! However obviously... like most shield tanking ships, you dont want to run solo, with a tackler this ship will be nasty! Visit us at VETO FORUMS!!1!
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:36:00 - [18] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 13:56:53 This baby is going to be totally devastating with autocannons. You can put 8 of the highest tier autocannons on it (since its designed for artillery it will have lots of grid), slap on a monster tank and damage mods in the lows. Its only disadvantage is that its a bit slow, so you put a nano in one of the lows to fix it. But seriously, its annoying me that people try to think of it as a artillery boat, when the Tempest will ALWAYS be better for it. You dont boost shields in a fleet and everybody knows it. This whole story reminds me of "Dont mention the war" in Faulty Towers... everybody is thinking one thing, but are discussing something else. Or maybe everybody arent. I am, anyway. :) The bonuses scream autocannons and thats how it will be used. So dont kid yourselfs... Discuss. actually 650mm are equal if not better than 800mm but i don't see this ship very suited for close range... why? simply because its dps is too low and is too vulnerable to nos... you have huge tank... you get a pair of nos on you and you are dead in a pair on mins... you remove a pair of guns to fit noses and here that you end up with a sort of slower tempest with better tank but worse dps
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:47:00 - [19] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 15:49:50 Originally by: Ath Amon actually 650mm are equal if not better than 800mm but i don't see this ship very suited for close range... why? simply because its dps is too low and is too vulnerable to nos... you have huge tank... you get a pair of nos on you and you are dead in a pair on mins... you remove a pair of guns to fit noses and here that you end up with a sort of slower tempest with better tank but worse dps No, the ship has higher dps than the Tempest since it can use 3 damage mods instead of 2 (see my post above with details) and can fit the top tier guns. And about the nos, well, that can be said for any shield tanker. If you put a pair of nos on a raven, his tank eventually fail. You just have to survive until it does, and thats the tricky part. Maelstrom will have 80 higher dps with 8x 800 II than the raven does with siege, if both are using 3 damage mods. If the Maelstrom switches to Hail, it will have almost 350 higher dps than the Raven. Of course you might not use Hail vs a shield tank, but you get my drift... Then Raven is of course only using its 6 launchers and have 2 slots for nos as well. But the much higher dps of the Maelstrom up close should even out the field abit. Im not saying the ship will beat a Raven, but it will have higher dps up close once you get there. Much like the Megathron, except this ship has a shield tank. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jonay 3B Legio IX Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:51:00 - [20] Originally by: starship enginer erm i wouldnt think it will be used much as a AC boat tbh its sig is much higher than a tempest, the problem being torp ravens dont do full dmg to a tempest the temp can fit 2x heavy nosf although this ship with the following might be ok 8x 800 t2 mwd: 20km, 2invol, xl-booster, heavy cap inj 3x dmg mod. 2x nanos And don't forget 4 webber drones.
Frezik Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:53:00 - [21] Originally by: Jim McGregor But seriously, its annoying me that people try to think of it as a artillery boat . . . The bonuses scream autocannons and thats how it will be used. So dont kid yourselfs... The bonuses do scream autocannons. The problem is that CCP thinks it's a fleet/artillery machine. If it's going to be an AC platform, than it needs its speed, agility, and cargo size increased, with pg/cpu adjusted as needed. If it's going to be an arty platform, than it needs the ROF bonus changed to damage, and the shield boost bonus changed into a resistance or hp bonus. Personally, I'd rather see a new AC boat, as I'm rather fond of the "office chair rolling down stairs with uzis" style of combat.
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:53:00 - [22] Edited by: Tiuwaz on 25/10/2006 15:53:26 Originally by: Jim McGregor Then Raven is of course only using its 6 launchers and have 2 slots for nos as well. But the much higher dps of the Maelstrom up close should even out the field abit. Im not saying the ship will beat a Raven, but it will have higher dps up close once you get there. Much like the Megathron, except this ship has a shield tank. how you gonna get close to a raven that has same base speed and less mass than you? if you use a mwd and raven not then i doubt you'll be able to outlast the raven which also fields 2 nos also mael dps sucks :O only 6% higher than tempest + 1 more heavy drone at the expense of no nos edit: if you use webber drones you can slowboat to it i guess xD Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Rin Eyre Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:54:00 - [23] Nobody was intrested, so I've done math myself... ~3.4 rounds per second, ~200 rounds per minute, ~25-30 minutes of constant fire... with full cargo of Barrage L. Is that ok?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:56:00 - [24] The speed is a problem, yeah. To be really good it needs a speed boost, but I think in the mean time we will have to put 2 nanos in the lows. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:03:00 - [25] Originally by: Ath Amon raven can eventually fit 2 nos and keep a decent dps so is way less vulnerable. Raven doesnt have shield boost bonus. And the Maelstrom can fit 6x 650/800 II and still do equal damage to the raven, while also nossing him. Also the Maelstrom can use EW drones, or webber drones. Ravens drone space is crap. But Ok, maybe it wont beat a Raven, but then its really only in the same situation as the Megathron. And nobody thinks thats a bad ship, do they? Ok, problems getting in range, yeah... but thats it. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Ath Amon raven can eventually fit 2 nos and keep a decent dps so is way less vulnerable. Raven doesnt have shield boost bonus. And the Maelstrom can fit 6x 650/800 II and still do equal damage to the raven, while also nossing him. Also the Maelstrom can use EW drones, or webber drones. Ravens drone space is crap. But Ok, maybe it wont beat a Raven, but then its really only in the same situation as the Megathron. And nobody thinks thats a bad ship, do they? Ok, problems getting in range, yeah... but thats it. mah i'm a bit sceptical but maybe it will work... eheh must admit that i was fitting an ac mael before sisi decided it didn't like me instead i will be very curious to see how it will perform with 10% shield/hps and a passive tank... that could be quite interesting
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:14:00 - [27] Originally by: Ath Amon mah i'm a bit sceptical but maybe it will work... eheh must admit that i was fitting an ac mael before sisi decided it didn't like me instead i will be very curious to see how it will perform with 10% shield/hps and a passive tank... that could be quite interesting Try both setups and report back. I cant get into SiSi because my account expired. Serves me right for using time cards I guess... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Rin Eyre Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:18:00 - [28] Originally by: Jim McGregor But Ok, maybe it wont beat a Raven, but then its really only in the same situation as the Megathron. And nobody thinks thats a bad ship, do they? Ok, problems getting in range, yeah... but thats it. I think it's a crap ship. Because its "versatility" truly comes from outer space. That's like having ballpen with integrated razor for morning shave. Or handgun welded to medieval tower shield... or many other strange things.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:19:00 - [29] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 16:19:31 Originally by: Rin Eyre I think it's a crap ship. Because its "versatility" truly comes from outer space. That's like having ballpen with integrated razor for morning shave. Or handgun welded to medieval tower shield... or many other strange things. Well, at least as a autocannon ship, its using both its bonuses. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:20:00 - [30] So what you guys are saying is that you want a low SP sliepnir. Lets not forget you are wasting about 9k of powergrid and need a whole lot of ifs to even do what you want to do with it. If people fly it like this I can't wait to utterly wear them like pants with a Typhoon. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:23:00 - [31] Originally by: Kaylana Syi So what you guys are saying is that you want a low SP sliepnir. Lets not forget you are wasting about 9k of powergrid and need a whole lot of ifs to even do what you want to do with it. If people fly it like this I can't wait to utterly wear them like pants with a Typhoon. Typhoon is better for up close, but require alot more sp too. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:24:00 - [32] I'm in the camp of a Maelstrom beating the Raven. Mostly because I flew Caldari ships for a long time (all Caldari ship skills at 5 and missile types skills at 5) and there is no way in hell someone is going to fit 6 siege II and 2 heavy diminising NOS on this thing AND tank and keep their damage up. Why? Grid and CPU. You need 3 PDU IIs, a RCU II and a CPU II in your lows to fit all that stuff. I actually have to stop using T2 tanking stuff in med so I can fill the 5th med slot. I only have 20 cpu left over. Even if you drop a few T2 things in the medium slots, you still don't have much CPU and grid to go. Sacrificing the heavy NOS for medium nos gives you a bit more playing around room but then a Maelstrom can use its NOS at 20k and if it uses a MWD, then it can stay at that range and NOS away a Raven's cap while the Raven can't use its NOS. Personally, I'm not really a fan of either ship but based on what you can fit on the Raven and what it looks like you can fit on a Maelstrom, I'm betting on the Maelstrom in the hands of a semi-decent pilot.
Rin Eyre Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:25:00 - [33] Originally by: Jim McGregor Well, at least as a autocannon ship, its using both its bonuses. Yeah. Whatever. Throw one web from recon and forget about it.
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:26:00 - [34] Originally by: Keta Min Originally by: Jim McGregor So I dont know... does the ship really suck that bad? nah it's ok. the abaddon makes it look good There's two kind of Amarr on the forums; Those that whine about the Abbadon 'cause it can't sustain for very long, and those that realize it's a better gankageddon.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:29:00 - [35] Originally by: Derran I'm in the camp of a Maelstrom beating the Raven. Mostly because I flew Caldari ships for a long time (all Caldari ship skills at 5 and missile types skills at 5) and there is no way in hell someone is going to fit 6 siege II and 2 heavy diminising NOS on this thing AND tank and keep their damage up. Why? Grid and CPU. You need 3 PDU IIs, a RCU II and a CPU II in your lows to fit all that stuff. I actually have to stop using T2 tanking stuff in med so I can fill the 5th med slot. I only have 20 cpu left over. Even if you drop a few T2 things in the medium slots, you still don't have much CPU and grid to go. Sacrificing the heavy NOS for medium nos gives you a bit more playing around room but then a Maelstrom can use its NOS at 20k and if it uses a MWD, then it can stay at that range and NOS away a Raven's cap while the Raven can't use its NOS. Personally, I'm not really a fan of either ship but based on what you can fit on the Raven and what it looks like you can fit on a Maelstrom, I'm betting on the Maelstrom in the hands of a semi-decent pilot. Yeah, you run into fitting problems for the Raven, thats true. Maybe even for the Maelstrom. Wish I could test... :( And that 37.5% shield boosting bonus might play a big role. Raven doesnt have any defensive bonuses. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:46:00 - [36] Originally by: Jim McGregor Yeah, you run into fitting problems for the Raven, thats true. Maybe even for the Maelstrom. Wish I could test... :( And that 37.5% shield boosting bonus might play a big role. Raven doesnt have any defensive bonuses. that boosting bonus is overrated, to make a visual comparison: lets take the mael same slot layout and stats etc except it doesnt have a boost bonus, now i give you the option btw fitting 1x faction amplifier or 2x large nos in addition to the already existing slots what ya gonna take? Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:49:00 - [37] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 16:49:54 Originally by: Tiuwaz Originally by: Jim McGregor Yeah, you run into fitting problems for the Raven, thats true. Maybe even for the Maelstrom. Wish I could test... :( And that 37.5% shield boosting bonus might play a big role. Raven doesnt have any defensive bonuses. that boosting bonus is overrated, to make a visual comparison: lets take the mael same slot layout and stats etc except it doesnt have a boost bonus, now i give you the option btw fitting 1x faction amplifier or 2x large nos in addition to the already existing slots what ya gonna take? Ill take both. Ill use 6 guns with phased plasma, 2 nos, and use the built-in faction amplifier to beat the Raven into the ground. MWD takes one slot, then I use 5 slots for a nice tank, slaps 3 damage mods on there and then 2 nanos to reach the raven faster with the MWD boost. I might also use the 100 m3 drone bay for ecm drones, webber drones or whatever just to tease the Raven who cant do the same. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:51:00 - [38] you are aware that you will do 25% less dmg than a tempest if you sacrifice 2 slots for nos on mael? Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:00:00 - [39] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 17:08:35 Originally by: Tiuwaz you are aware that you will do 25% less dmg than a tempest if you sacrifice 2 slots for nos on mael? Tempest 6x 650 II and 2 nos = 689 dps with phased plasma Maelstrom 6x 650 II and 2 nos = 586 dps with phased plasma Im using Ogre II on both of them here too, but Maelstrom has 3 damage mods, Tempest only 2. Tempest wont fit 3 because it will hurt his tank (shared slots for damage/tanking). So there you have 2 ships (Raven vs Maelstrom) nossing eachother and using cap injectors to boost shields. Mael has lower dps than the Tempest would have, but the shield boost bonus helps it against the Ravens higher damage. Maelstrom gains 37.5% more shield per cycle. So in 3 boosts, it will have boosted as much as the Raven in 4. To me, it looks pretty close on paper. There is only one thing... Raven might not have a MWD, which means it can use 6 slots for tanking. Autocannon Maelstrom NEEDS a MWD, there is no question about it. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:06:00 - [40] hehe we can go back forth now, i see what you are pointing at its now down to real testing to prove who is wrong and right i'll stick to my interpretation but if it works thats good, but i'd still favour a 10% hp bonus instead the boost bonus Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:08:00 - [41] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 17:08:04 Originally by: Tiuwaz hehe we can go back forth now, i see what you are pointing at its now down to real testing to prove who is wrong and right i'll stick to my interpretation but if it works thats good, but i'd still favour a 10% hp bonus instead the boost bonus Yeah, its an interesting discussion. Try the setups out for me... I cant get on the test server. Account expired... :p --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:10:00 - [42] heh i doubt i'll get on test server but I'll post it if i can test some Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:16:00 - [43] This ship is neither a good arty platform or a good AC platform. The Tempest is a better cross dresser just like the megathron is the better switch hitter than the Hyperion. The faster you pro-maelstrom as is realize that... the faster I can get some sleep. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Horza Otho Minmatar Silver Star Federation	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:17:00 - [44] yes jim, i thought the same, i plan to use a little something like the following for my Mael, 8x dual 650 II / 800 II 1x XL t2 booster 1x em t2 2x invul t2 1x heavy electrochem 1x 28k faction WD 2-3 pdu II 1x dcu 1-2 gyro II 4x berserker webber drones u have ur webbing, scrambling, monster tanking and devastating damage... i dont see anything wrong with this ship tbh. --- Eris Discordia is miiiiiine
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:18:00 - [45] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 17:18:59 Originally by: Kaylana Syi This ship is neither a good arty platform or a good AC platform. The Tempest is a better cross dresser just like the megathron is the better switch hitter than the Hyperion. The faster you pro-maelstrom as is realize that... the faster I can get some sleep. You cant sleep until the Maelstrom is agreed to be worthless by everybody? :) I want to see the results from people testing it on the test server... :p --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Traxman	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:23:00 - [46] What happend to the 12th slot ? Was not the Tier3 BSes belived to have 12 low+med slots, seems it only got to 11..
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:23:00 - [47] Edited by: Tiuwaz on 25/10/2006 17:23:02 Originally by: Horza Otho 8x dual 650 II / 800 II 1x XL t2 booster 1x em t2 2x invul t2 1x heavy electrochem 1x 28k faction WD 2-3 pdu II 1x dcu 1-2 gyro II 4x berserker webber drones u have ur webbing, scrambling, monster tanking and devastating damage... i dont see anything wrong with this ship tbh. no monster tanking with webbing, scrambling and mwd and really where is that devastating dmg ppl see? Oo 6% more dps and 1 more heavy drone thats roughly the same ( abit less) than a tempest with launchers and i never ever would have called my tempi a ship with devastating ac dmg Oo Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:26:00 - [48] Originally by: Traxman What happend to the 12th slot ? Was not the Tier3 BSes belived to have 12 low+med slots, seems it only got to 11.. no 12th slot, and thats oke, would have infinged too much on faction BS Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:01:00 - [49] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 17:18:59 Originally by: Kaylana Syi This ship is neither a good arty platform or a good AC platform. The Tempest is a better cross dresser just like the megathron is the better switch hitter than the Hyperion. The faster you pro-maelstrom as is realize that... the faster I can get some sleep. You cant sleep until the Maelstrom is agreed to be worthless by everybody? :) I want to see the results from people testing it on the test server... :p Its a bloody poor SP sleipnir. That is not what its supposed to be. Look at what people are doing with it... YOU CANNOT TELL ME IT ISN'T WAISTING EITHER HALF ITS STATS WITH AC FITTING OR HALF ITS BONUSES WITH ARTILLERY. What does that spell? Typhoon bullcrap all over again. Thanks for your lack of progress. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Vengarioth Skullshanks Minmatar Vril Werke Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:18:00 - [50] Good thread there mate, I myself was thinking the same as an active tank just isn't going to be viable in a fleet enviroment. You are better off fitting the meds beside the required SB, Tracking Comps with some kind of ewar anyway. So what's the other option - a shield tanked Autocannon slugger, and i really like it. Now let's change the slot layout to 8-7-4 and everything will be okay. In fleets you will have more space for ewar, or a small passive tank. And in small gang Warfare another med is always very valuable. Why not ? Because you can tackle tank and deal dmg all the same (more or less). Nothing a Hyperion or Abbadon can't already do.
Vera Nosfyu Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:34:00 - [51] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 17:18:59 Originally by: Kaylana Syi This ship is neither a good arty platform or a good AC platform. The Tempest is a better cross dresser just like the megathron is the better switch hitter than the Hyperion. The faster you pro-maelstrom as is realize that... the faster I can get some sleep. You cant sleep until the Maelstrom is agreed to be worthless by everybody? :) I want to see the results from people testing it on the test server... :p Its a bloody poor SP sleipnir. That is not what its supposed to be. Look at what people are doing with it... YOU CANNOT TELL ME IT ISN'T WAISTING EITHER HALF ITS STATS WITH AC FITTING OR HALF ITS BONUSES WITH ARTILLERY. What does that spell? Typhoon bullcrap all over again. Thanks for your lack of progress. You can use it with artillery and not waste its bonuses. Who says that you can only use artillery in fleets? A full rack of 1400's can go a long way in a skirmish. ----------------------------------------------------------- "Violence solves all problems, no man, no problem." --Josef Stalin
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:37:00 - [52] Originally by: Vera Nosfyu You can use it with artillery and not waste its bonuses. Who says that you can only use artillery in fleets? A full rack of 1400's can go a long way in a skirmish. if you are in a skirmish close enough to the heat that the shield boost bonus would matter then you are too close for your arties to hit anything Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Rin Eyre Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:49:00 - [53] Edited by: Rin Eyre on 25/10/2006 20:50:34 For a ship that look like shark with wings - it's too slow. SLOW. SLOOOOW. Its speed is killing me literaly, physically, methaphoricaly and whatelse... it was drawn for speed, it's clear... why oh why it was made so slow for some balance purpose... ...if someone in charge reading this... what do you want to take away from it for -10% mass and +50m/s instead? P.S. I've been told that it has shield HP equal to Machariel... with exactly two times faster recharge.... wtf? edit: and capacitor/recharge little better too... why?
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 21:41:00 - [54] Originally by: Tiuwaz Originally by: Vera Nosfyu You can use it with artillery and not waste its bonuses. Who says that you can only use artillery in fleets? A full rack of 1400's can go a long way in a skirmish. if you are in a skirmish close enough to the heat that the shield boost bonus would matter then you are too close for your arties to hit anything amen brother Tiuwaz WTF do people want to do... sit 60km from thier targets and hurl phased plasma? LOL what a joke. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Rin Eyre Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.26 05:49:00 - [55] Quake L gives 20km optimal now... on 1400 T2... that's pretty close. Isn't that AC range?
Kahor Minmatar Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.26 07:44:00 - [56] If you are at 20km, you might as well use AC for less pwg and cpu requirement and better dps as well... ---------------- An eye for an eye make a whole world blind.
Cail Fortestan M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.26 09:29:00 - [57] Note that the Tier 3 BSs will be about double to cost of the current Tier 2 BSs, and you clearly don't get a lot more for your money. Build cost of Maelstrom is about double the Tempest in minerals. -- M. Corp.
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.26 09:41:00 - [58] Originally by: Cail Fortestan Note that the Tier 3 BSs will be about double to cost of the current Tier 2 BSs, and you clearly don't get a lot more for your money. Build cost of Maelstrom is about double the Tempest in minerals. maximum insurance for Maelstrom was 142 mill (or 146?) on Sisi, expecting the price range from 140-150 on average for it also i am seriously underwhelmed by the shield boost bonus, its like a bigger version of the cyclone without an extra slot to make up for the suckiness agility not as bad as i feared, but top speed and acceleration are horrid (but that was expected with that mass) Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.

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