|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 21:38:00 -
[1]
meh.. lemme add something to make the topic more flammable.
taken from the myrmidon thread below:
Originally by: Grimpak ok so how about this:
reduce to 6 hislots (6 turrets) give more lows and meds increase drone bay
change bonus to:
+5% hybrid damage per level +1 scout/medium drone control per level
reasoning? the myrmidon becomes a unique drone ship. it is not a vexor, since it dishes more damage than him. it is not a domi since it gives out more drones.
instead of giving a dmg bonus, why not increasing the ship's ability to field drones?
reasoning behind such idea?
if battlecruisers field more guns cruiser-sized guns than cruisers themselves, why not make a battlecruiser drone carrier that can field MORE cruiser-sized drones? -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
|
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 21:53:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Grimpak on 26/10/2006 21:54:10
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Black Scorpio So how about that Gallente colleagues? would a control of 10 drones at lvl5 finally shut you up?
600dps from drones would shut me up, yes.
It'd also make a kick ass forward observer for a carrier...
Here you go, one happy brother! Hey CCP, open those Christmas bags a bit earlier and start handing out drone space, it makes Gallente happy, and there's nothing better on a forum than seeing Gallente not whine! Yaayyyy !!!
Cheers!
it looks like we've just reach somewhere in this long flammage
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Black Scorpio
So how about that Gallente colleagues? would a control of 10 drones at lvl5 finally shut you up?
I think that would be overpowered, but I haven't done the DPS calculations so not sure. It *sounds* overpowered.
The last thing I want is an overpowered ship. I want a BC that is on equal footing with the others, dammit, nothing more nothing less.
compare 10 med drones with no ship bonuses with 5 med drones with ship bonuses.
or, since people are so eager to add heavy drones + dmg bonuses or smth, compare 10 med drones with no ship bonuses at all with 5 heavy drones with ship bonuses.
Oh thats no fun, for the purposes of sarcasm assume he meant current bonus + 1 drone control/level.
-------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
|
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 22:00:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Grimpak on 26/10/2006 22:02:19 ok I came up with this.
so, it looks like that the drone control bonus seems to be accepted.
now let's make some stats change in the myrmidon:
6/6/6 with 6 turrets
1000 grid 410 cpu
150m3 drone bay (enough for 10 meds + 10 lights)
+1 scout/med drone control per level +5% hybrid dmg bonus
notice that I toned down the grid so that a full hi-tier gun + tank becomes harder to fit.
edit: because I wanted to mean a control bonus for med and scout drones -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
|
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 22:11:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Grimpak on 26/10/2006 22:15:14
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 26/10/2006 22:02:19 ok I came up with this.
so, it looks like that the drone control bonus seems to be accepted.
now let's make some stats change in the myrmidon:
6/6/6 with 6 turrets
1000 grid 410 cpu
150m3 drone bay (enough for 10 meds + 10 lights)
+1 scout/med drone control per level +5% hybrid dmg bonus
notice that I toned down the grid so that a full hi-tier gun + tank becomes harder to fit.
edit: because I wanted to mean a control bonus for med and scout drones
With the 1200 grid it already has 5x ions a mwd and med rep w/ injector are almost impossible to fit as it is. With 1000 grid trying to fit 6 guns *will* be impossible.
however it can field 10 med/scout drones.
think of it like this:
tank in lows
injector/Ewar/web/whatev stuff in meds
low-grade guns in high slots
for example
6x T2 D150mm's
MWD injector web scram 2x damps or TD's
tank in lows.
uses all the bonuses of the ship and still has space for Ewar.
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Originally by: Black Scorpio So how about that Gallente colleagues? would a control of 10 drones at lvl5 finally shut you up?
Would be overpowered since 10 drones under the current system would be 20 drones under the old system... wouldn't help with lag either. Personally my initial reaction would be to give it a 200m3 drone bay in return for losing 1 a high slot or trading 2 highs for 1 low and probably lowering the grid accordingly. It would have to be tested though.
wrong. if you think about it a bit the drone dmg bonus is intended to double each drone effectiveness, meaning that 5 drones + ship dmg bonus = 10 drones in the old system
since the ship doesn't have a drone dmg bonus, it is the same as having a drone damage bonus.
however, it will make it harder to eliminate the drone component of the ship (thus a big lump of it's firepower) because it is more spreaded out thru more drones.
as for the lag, well, it is 10 drones. I cannot compete with such thing. Never said it didn't had any drawback -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
|
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 22:17:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 26/10/2006 22:02:19 ok I came up with this.
so, it looks like that the drone control bonus seems to be accepted.
now let's make some stats change in the myrmidon:
6/6/6 with 6 turrets
1000 grid 410 cpu
150m3 drone bay (enough for 10 meds + 10 lights)
+1 scout/med drone control per level +5% hybrid dmg bonus
notice that I toned down the grid so that a full hi-tier gun + tank becomes harder to fit.
edit: because I wanted to mean a control bonus for med and scout drones
With the 1200 grid it already has 5x ions a mwd and med rep w/ injector are almost impossible to fit as it is. With 1000 grid trying to fit 6 guns *will* be impossible.
however it can field 10 med/scout drones.
think of it like this:
tank in lows
injector/Ewar/web/whatev stuff in meds
low-grade guns in high slots
for example
6x T2 D150mm's
MWD injector web scram 2x damps or TD's
tank in lows.
uses all the bonuses of the ship and still has space for Ewar.
This is amazing, another UBER boat. Now lets add bonuses for each!
if it is still overpowered in your eyes, remove the hybrid dmg bonus then -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
|
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 22:25:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Originally by: Grimpak
wrong. if you think about it a bit the drone dmg bonus is intended to double each drone effectiveness, meaning that 5 drones + ship dmg bonus = 10 drones in the old system
since the ship doesn't have a drone dmg bonus, it is the same as having a drone damage bonus.
5 drones + 10% dmg/lvl = 7.5 drones actually.. however there is also drone interfacing which gives 20% dmg/lvl, so:
10 drones * 100% dmg from DI5 = 20 drones equivelant
technically would be 24 equivelant due to 25% drone dmb from combat drone op which wasn't around previously...
yes, however I am not adding any kind of dmg bonus to the drones. only changing it. -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
|
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 22:34:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Originally by: Grimpak yes, however I am not adding any kind of dmg bonus to the drones. only changing it.
Except the +1 drone per level is much more effective than the 10% dmg bonus... it doesn't really solve the problem of not having spare drones either unless you plan to field only light drones since 10 mediums takes 100m3.
that's the point, since 9 drones are always more efective than 4 drones + bonus (which would be roughly equivalent to 8 drones).
firepower is more spreaded out, making it harder to the enemy to overcome such firepower.
I said 150m3 for the sake of balancing aswell tbh.
I am trying to suggest a weird bonus without overpower the damn thing that much -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
|
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 22:43:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Originally by: Grimpak that's the point, since 9 drones are always more efective than 4 drones + bonus (which would be roughly equivalent to 8 drones).
firepower is more spreaded out, making it harder to the enemy to overcome such firepower.
I said 150m3 for the sake of balancing aswell tbh.
I am trying to suggest a weird bonus without overpower the damn thing that much
Even with the extra drones I don't think it would help that much since medium drones still go down pretty quick.. would also probably run into problems with ewar drones. I personally wouldn't want to fight a ship with 10 ECM drones or 6 ECM drones and 4 sensor damp drones. A flat change to the drone bay would be the simplest fix assuming it keeps it inline with the other BC... if that can't be done I'd probably say drop the rep bonus for a 5% hybrid dmg bonus.
I guess you have a point there.
however a +1 drone control bonus would made the ship much more unique.
hmm... maybe making the bonus applying to solely scout/medium combat drones? -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
|
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 22:57:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Hllaxiu In short: 10 drones isn't going to happen so lets not waste our time on suggesting it.
one can only try and ask to see if it's possible or not.
oh and btw, I realy thing it is possible, since there is a skill that applies only to medium/scout drones. maybe tying up the control bonus to that parameter.
Originally by: Azerrad InExile Basically would be garunteed death to smaller ships.
you can do that already with the drake.
7 T2 assault launchers + precision lights = omfgpwned frigs and the like
anyways at least it IS a suggestion, and I am/was being serious about it. -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
|
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.27 12:55:00 -
[10]
*agrees with Goumindong*
mini-geddon ftw \o/ -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
|
|
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.27 13:31:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 27/10/2006 13:25:56
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Again:
Vexor (cruiser): 75m3 Myrmidon (battlecruiser): 100m3 Eos (battlecruiser): 300m3 Ishtar (cruiser): 375m3 Dominix (battleship): 375m3
Spot the problem?
You have incorrectly labeled the Eos as a Battlecruiser and the Ishtar as a Cruiser, when they are in fact, a Command Ship and Heavy Assault Cruiser instead?
What do i win Bob?!
Anyway, I think changing the drone damage/HP bonus to be +15-20% for medium/light drones is a better fix if it needs one.
edit: This would secure it as a medium drone platform, giving it decent drone damage without sacrificing the target versitility of medium drones versus heavy drones[which have issues hitting small things].
I.E. a unique drone boat role.
meh
you want a unique drone boat?
*copy-pastes his suggestion*
6/6/6 6 turrets
1000 grid 410
150m3 drone bay
+1 scout/medium drone per level +5% dmg to med hybrid guns
unique drone ship
-------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
|
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.27 13:40:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Goumindong It definitly needs the 6th turret, if only so it doesnt look funny.
But i think that increasing the drone effectiveness is better than letting people use a lot of drones.
well it was discussed. and disregarding the point of how the heck do you code the "+1 scout/med drone" thingy, it is equal in terms of firepower, but however it has his advantages.
for example in the 5 drones + 20% drone dmg/hp thing, at lvl5 you have theoretically 10 drones, altho in practice it is 5 drones. in a 10 drone config with no firepower added, you have the same firepower (theoretically), but when you pop a drone, you don't lose 2 drones firepower instead. same firepower, but more spreaded out.
now the problem is, how it is possible to have a +1 scout/med drone? maybe tying up the bonus to the parameter of the skill that gives more damage to scout/med drones? -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
|
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.27 20:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nyxus Harbinger:
Originally by: Goumingdog According to Toaster Oven, the damage difference between A T2 fitted Harbinger fitting Heavy Pulses and a T2 fitted Hurricane fitting 220's is about 4% DPS in favor of the Harbinger. But in that situation the Hurricane has 637 more powergrid to play around with than the Harbinger and doesnt used cap.
This is a problem. Traditional Amarr ships have more guns (dps) and armor tanking via extra low slots.
Change Harbinger to 7/4/7 and add 600 more base grid.
This balances it out against the Hurricane and Drake as it will have an extra low (its Amarrffs) and slightly more grid than the Hurricane after fitting comparable weapons. Hurricane will have more cpu.
Nyxus
PS- Myrm needs a bit more love, be it in drones, turrets, dampers, or something else.
Nyxus
YES PLEASE -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
|
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.27 20:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 27/10/2006 20:42:51
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Nyxus Harbinger:
Originally by: Goumingdog According to Toaster Oven, the damage difference between A T2 fitted Harbinger fitting Heavy Pulses and a T2 fitted Hurricane fitting 220's is about 4% DPS in favor of the Harbinger. But in that situation the Hurricane has 637 more powergrid to play around with than the Harbinger and doesnt used cap.
This is a problem. Traditional Amarr ships have more guns (dps) and armor tanking via extra low slots.
Change Harbinger to 7/4/7 and add 600 more base grid.
This balances it out against the Hurricane and Drake as it will have an extra low (its Amarrffs) and slightly more grid than the Hurricane after fitting comparable weapons. Hurricane will have more cpu.
Nyxus
PS- Myrm needs a bit more love, be it in drones, turrets, dampers, or something else.
Nyxus
YES PLEASE
It could use about 100 more CPU to be equivelent as well[90 or so at max skills], not to mention the capacitor with 7 guns firing 25% faster even at a 50% discount...
Then again, ill take what I can get at 7/4/7 with 2100 PG.
The problem of course, is then balancing the thing with beam lasers and smaller laser weaponry[which saves more PG per gun than AC's/Artillerys do]. If you decided to fit focused instead of heavies you could fit two 1600 MM plates at 2100 PG. And a similar situation involving the difference between focused medium beams and heavy beams.[DPS difference on both is roughly 30%]
Fixing laser PG/CPU use would be a better solution, but 100 CPU/600 PG and 7/4/7 is a good stopgap.
imho, the limiting factor when fitting amarrian ships should always be CPU and not grid. -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
|
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.29 22:39:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nebuli Cant believe I read someone say why dont tech 2 drones have stacking negatives like tech 2 ammo, all I can say is...
Counter with, why dont your tech 2 turrets and launchers have stacking negatives?
well, T2 weapons ARE harder to fit, while T2 drones only have skill and price as drawbacks. -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
|
|
|
|