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erg cz
Tribal Core
185
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Posted - 2015.04.08 08:03:23 -
[1] - Quote
Hi.
To be able to use POS in high sec you have to pat not only fuel but also race chart. After your POS run out of fuel, it goes off line. But what is the conciquence of running out of chart? I suggeest it would be not only going off line but also loosing CONCORD protection.
Right now to shoot down abandoned POS in high sec requires war dec the corp. Which costs money and time. I suggest CONCORD will stop protecting POSes, that ran out of charts. So we can shoot it straight away to clear the space. POS without chart payment lost its right to be there, IMHO. |
Icebears
ThinkTank Industries
7
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 08:17:46 -
[2] - Quote
I suppose they should keep using Charts when offline too then (AFAIK they don't atm), but it sounds like a good solution to highsec pos clearing.
The POS owners should however be able to fight back, but I don't know if Limited Engagement with an entire corp works, or maybe a Suspect timer? |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
500
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 08:25:35 -
[3] - Quote
I'd rather see a set of warnings over about 30 days that the empire will not tolerate unlicensed starbases, and then at the end of 30 days, active or inactive, it starts getting shot up by the empire police, with all the usual problems of fighting back.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1034
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 08:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
or now here is a thought you can make the investment to war dec the corp that holds it if you want the moon
besides POS are on the way out anyway 2-3 more years and they should be gone no need to spend dev time to change it
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Null Infinity
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 09:15:04 -
[5] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
besides POS are on the way out anyway 2-3 more years and they should be gone no need to spend dev time to change it
Who knows, maybe that unlicensed, out-of-chart POS problem will persist even in new structures. I mean - deal with it now, or we will face same problem later on anyway. Just instead of POS , space will be occupied by other player owned structure.
I think this is not about POS, it is about ppl exploiting that broken in-game mechanic. |
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
1042
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 09:18:24 -
[6] - Quote
Honest to god I thought the title was a typo for 'charges'.
Too far too long to realise they meant charters. More coffee! |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2016
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 10:08:24 -
[7] - Quote
LE's don't work for whole corps, you get terrible things happening when there isn't a wardec with highsec aggression, as we discovered in live events. So.... yea nah.
Wardec them, if you care about the moon make an investment, if you just want green KB, pay for it. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
241
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 10:22:03 -
[8] - Quote
I believe that there should be a penalty above and beyond shut-down for a POS running out of charters......
perhaps:
run out of fuel - starbase shuts down
run out of charters - starbase keeps functioning, but loses empire protection
and the 2 fuels are consumed independently,
so as long as the POS is online, it uses fuel
as long as it's anchored in empire space, it uses charters
As for making an investment, well yeah, but you already have to devote a load of time to killing something that someone's potentially just left anchored to save the spot....
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
|
erg cz
Tribal Core
188
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 10:46:52 -
[9] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:I'd rather see a set of warnings over about 30 days that the empire will not tolerate unlicensed starbases, and then at the end of 30 days, active or inactive, it starts getting shot up by the empire police, with all the usual problems of fighting back.
This is also a good option, but I believe some players would appreciate possibility to use abandoned tower for their killboard. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2016
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 10:49:42 -
[10] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:I believe that there should be a penalty above and beyond shut-down for a POS running out of charters......
perhaps:
run out of fuel - starbase shuts down
run out of charters - starbase keeps functioning, but loses empire protection
and the 2 fuels are consumed independently,
so as long as the POS is online, it uses fuel
as long as it's anchored in empire space, it uses charters
As for making an investment, well yeah, but you already have to devote a load of time to killing something that someone's potentially just left anchored to save the spot....
But Concord aren't the Empire protection. They are separate.
So if you do it that way, then sure, the Empire may take it down after 30 days or whatever time, though that's pretty ****** to someone who falls offline for some reason and comes back to a POS destroyed by NPC's. They could just dismantle it and store it in a hanger instead, frees the moon up without destroying peoples assets who are offline.
And if you want to build your Epeen up by pretending you are an awesome PvPer for shooting offline towers in highsec where no-one else can touch you..... yea, pay for that stuff. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
242
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 11:01:56 -
[11] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Xe'Cara'eos wrote:I believe that there should be a penalty above and beyond shut-down for a POS running out of charters......
perhaps:
run out of fuel - starbase shuts down
run out of charters - starbase keeps functioning, but loses empire protection
and the 2 fuels are consumed independently,
so as long as the POS is online, it uses fuel
as long as it's anchored in empire space, it uses charters
As for making an investment, well yeah, but you already have to devote a load of time to killing something that someone's potentially just left anchored to save the spot.... But Concord aren't the Empire protection. They are separate. So if you do it that way, then sure, the Empire may take it down after 30 days or whatever time, though that's pretty ****** to someone who falls offline for some reason and comes back to a POS destroyed by NPC's. They could just dismantle it and store it in a hanger instead, frees the moon up without destroying peoples assets who are offline. And if you want to build your Epeen up by pretending you are an awesome PvPer for shooting offline towers in highsec where no-one else can touch you..... yea, pay for that stuff.
actually - taking it down and storing it in the corp hangers is a much better idea, including the contents...
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
|
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2016
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 11:12:48 -
[12] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
actually - taking it down and storing it in the corp hangers is a much better idea, including the contents...
Now that I have utterly no issue with at all.
Still leaves a window for corps who are hunting offline POS to find it and attack it with a wardec, but doesn't blow stuff up with NPC's while people are offline, and doesn't leave it there forever. |
erg cz
Tribal Core
189
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 12:15:27 -
[13] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:, but doesn't blow stuff up with NPC's while people are offline,
That never was in any part of original suggestion.
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Reina Xyaer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
89
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 12:40:50 -
[14] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
besides POS are on the way out anyway 2-3 more years and they should be gone no need to spend dev time to change it
2-3 more YEARS???
YEARS??
It sure as hell BETTER NOT take TWO... or THREE years (?!?!) to get rid of POSs and give us the new structures they just unveiled. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
245
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 14:13:11 -
[15] - Quote
Reina Xyaer wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
besides POS are on the way out anyway 2-3 more years and they should be gone no need to spend dev time to change it
2-3 more YEARS??? YEARS?? It sure as hell BETTER NOT take TWO... or THREE years (?!?!) to get rid of POSs and give us the new structures they just unveiled.
hey, this IS CCP, we'll probably have new structures in a year or two, and then another year for them to completely phase out POS's
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
|
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
233
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 14:52:33 -
[16] - Quote
-1
Mechanics already exists to clear space of useless offline towers.
Nice way to do it. Convo the corp and ask them to remove it so you can have the moon.
EvE way to do it. WD and shoot the damned thing.
Players in this game put in the time and effort to earn the ISK to buy it and until recently they put in the time and effort to grind standing to be able to put it up. You do not deserve nor do you have a right to an easy button way to remove it.
And yes I have been in on many POS bashes in high sec, they are a grind and that is exactly the point I am making. Others put in the grind to place it you should have to put in the grind to remove it. |
Null Infinity
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 15:04:17 -
[17] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:-1
Mechanics already exists to clear space of useless offline towers.
That is just a workaround for the apparently broken in-game mechanic. It is not a "Mechanics to clear space", it is a stupid wd and shoot action. All you need is ISK and 24 hours for wd to become valid. Where you see 'mechanics'?
Donnachadh wrote:
Nice way to do it. Convo the corp and ask them to remove it so you can have the moon.
Dead corp will not answer.
Donnachadh wrote:
Others put in the grind to place it you should have to put in the grind to remove it.
It is not about grind, learn to read pls. It is about need to charge 50+ mio ISK and wait 24 hours to be able to do very same thing - shoot the POS. And since you try not to look like 'a looser who put ISK into broken mechanic instead of changing it' but as fair guy, how about this: other players invest ISK into charters to keep their POS work and protected by CONCORD, why someone should parasite on this keeping their un-chartered POS CONCORD protected just as well?
|
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
927
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 15:22:04 -
[18] - Quote
If you don't have 50mil isk to spare and 24 hours exceeds the limits of your patience (and I really am trying to help you here) then maybe POS ownership isn't for you.
Fuel is a large and constant expense. >>>>>50 mil isk
Setting up even basic reactions more tedious than setting up PI. >>>>> waiting 24 hrs
Another way to look at it. The owner claimed the moon and put up a POS. He invested time, effort and expense. Wardeccing him allows a chance to defend his stuff.
If the guy is no longer in game, it's just 50mil and 24 hours. Over the course of your eve lifetime - probably 2 small drops in a very large bucket.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
233
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 02:03:33 -
[19] - Quote
Null Infinity wrote:That is just a workaround for the apparently broken in-game mechanic. It is not a "Mechanics to clear space", it is a stupid wd and shoot action. All you need is ISK and 24 hours for wd to become valid. Where you see 'mechanics'?
It is not a workaround, it currently is and always has been the mechanic in the game by which you can remove a POS that bothers you. Don't want to WD and shoot a POS then move on and find another moon to put yours up at.
Null Infinity wrote:dead corp will not answer.
And a dead corp will offer no resistance to removing the POS. And if the corp is dead you will not have to worry about the defenses as there will not be any all of which makes your job easier.
Null Infinity wrote:It is not about grind, learn to read pls. It is about need to charge 50+ mio ISK and wait 24 hours to be able to do very same thing - shoot the POS.
I did read, you want a POS to be removed from space because the owners do not keep charters in it. In other words you want the game to do your dirty work for you and remove the POS because you are to cheap and to lazy to do it yourself and my answer is NO. If you want it gone WD the corp and remove it, because you see this is not about the end results it is all about how you get there.
Null Infinity wrote:And since you try not to look like 'a looser who put ISK into broken mechanic instead of changing it' but as fair guy, how about this: other players invest ISK into charters to keep their POS work and protected by CONCORD, why someone should parasite on this keeping their un-chartered POS CONCORD protected just as well?
Concord only offers protection if you are an idiot and attack the POS with out filling a WD. File a WD and Concord becomes a non-issue as your 50 mil causes Concord to turn a blind eye to your actions.
You say it is not about the grind and you are wrong, it is all about the grind.
If the POS has been there more than a year then at some point in time PLAYERS had to GRIND the standings to be able to place that POS. They had to GRIND to earn the ISK to buy the POS.
If it was put up after the standings changes then PLAYERS still had to GRIND to make the ISK to buy the POS.
Either way PLAYERS had to grind in some fashion to place it where you found it an if you want it removed then you have to PAY and you have to GRIND to accomplish that goal. |
erg cz
Tribal Core
191
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 07:05:18 -
[20] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:, you want a POS to be removed from space because the owners do not keep charters in it. In other words you want the game to do your dirty work for you and remove the POS because you are to cheap and to lazy to do it yourself
I just want to stress once again, that OP is not about "POS to be removed from space" for me. POS should stay there so everyone can shoot it. Just not CONCORD protected any more.
Why I have to pay with charters for my POS to be there, if the guy next door has its POS ready to online any time without paying a single ISK?
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Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel
The Kadeshi
1314
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 07:45:48 -
[21] - Quote
You pay with the charters to use it. If you do not have charters in the POS, you cannot use it.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Null Infinity
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 12:12:36 -
[22] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:You pay with the charters to use it. If you do not have charters in the POS, you cannot use it.
Fair point. POS is a stationary ship, actually. Without WD you get CONCORDED for shooting AFK ship in high sec , so you should not be able tot shoot POS either. |
Garnoo
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
167
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 12:47:49 -
[23] - Quote
Reina Xyaer wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
besides POS are on the way out anyway 2-3 more years and they should be gone no need to spend dev time to change it
2-3 more YEARS??? YEARS?? It sure as hell BETTER NOT take TWO... or THREE years (?!?!) to get rid of POSs and give us the new structures they just unveiled.
i remember ccp talking about fixing/changing POS 2 or 3 years ago... so yes, 2 or 3 more years to wait are quite realistic time...
hisec pos-spots are quite valuable, especially close to market bubs etc, an OP just wanted a find a way to make easy afk (thanks god for sentry drones and t1 laser ammo) ISK...
you can always blame 50m is too much for starting wardecs, lets make it free and live in constant wardec (oh wait, you would all live in npc cork then)
People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back --á EvE
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erg cz
Tribal Core
192
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 12:53:39 -
[24] - Quote
Garnoo wrote:
hisec pos-spots are quite valuable, especially close to market bubs etc, an OP just wanted a find a way to make easy afk (thanks god for sentry drones and t1 laser ammo) ISK...
As a matter of fact I need a spot in high sec / low sec border, so I can reship quickly (no NPC station in that system). And I am no chief in my corp to make WD who ever I want.
Garnoo wrote:
wardecs, lets make it free and
I am not suggesting to make WD free. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
233
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 13:22:11 -
[25] - Quote
erg cz wrote:I just want to stress once again, that OP is not about "POS to be removed from space" for me. POS should stay there so everyone can shoot it. Just not CONCORD protected any more.
Why I have to pay with charters for my POS to be there, if the guy next door has its POS ready to online any time without paying a single ISK?
Interesting you claim now that the OP was not about removing a dead POS from space and yet in the section below which is quoted from your OP you clearly state that you want to be able to "shoot it straight away to clear space" sounds to me like you want to shoot the damned thing. And in this same segment you complain about the time and ISK that it takes to shoot it as well and so my answer to you is still no. WS and shoot it or move on.
erg cz wrote:Right now to shoot down abandoned POS in high sec requires war dec the corp. Which costs money and time. I suggest CONCORD will stop protecting POSes, that ran out of charters. So we can shoot it straight away to clear the space. POS without charter payment lost its right to be there, IMHO.
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erg cz
Tribal Core
193
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Posted - 2015.04.09 14:36:01 -
[26] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:erg cz wrote:I just want to stress once again, that OP is not about "POS to be removed from space" for me. POS should stay there so everyone can shoot it. Just not CONCORD protected any more.
Why I have to pay with charters for my POS to be there, if the guy next door has its POS ready to online any time without paying a single ISK?
Interesting you claim now that the OP was not about removing a dead POS from space and yet in the section below which is quoted from your OP you clearly state that you want to be able to "shoot it straight away to clear space" sounds to me like you want to shoot the damned thing. And in this same segment you complain about the time and ISK that it takes to shoot it as well and so my answer to you is still no. WD and shoot it or move on. And in case you missed it from my last post the key to removing Concord protection is called a WD and it only costs 50 mil. erg cz wrote:Right now to shoot down abandoned POS in high sec requires war dec the corp. Which costs money and time. I suggest CONCORD will stop protecting POSes, that ran out of charters. So we can shoot it straight away to clear the space. POS without charter payment lost its right to be there, IMHO.
Those two my statements do not contradict each other. I do not see it fair if I have to pay in charters to use the place at the moon and someone else just occupy the next moon without paying a single ISK. And i do not want CCP or anyone else to remove abandoned POS for me - I will shoot it myself, when I will be ready to replace it with my own POS. I just do not want to bother with some war declaration (I am not a CEO) |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
935
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 14:48:51 -
[27] - Quote
If concord doesn't intervene when I shoot a POS that isn't up to date on taxes (we'll call them charters), then I will assume concord will not be intervening when I shoot jet cans that don't have up to date taxes on them.
I think it's only fair if charters buy concord protection for a POS then jet can miners should also have to pay some form of tax for each jetcan that concord protects.
Also there should be some form of tax on MTU and depots, as limited protection for these launched structures is provided in the way of criminal flagging.
I don't think it's reasonable to pull concord off of one form of space junk (POS) without pulling them off of other forms of space junk (jet cans, MTU and depots). Concord can't afford to send mixed messages to the public it protects.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1076
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 14:54:46 -
[28] - Quote
erg cz wrote:...And i do not want CCP or anyone else to remove abandoned POS for me - I will shoot it myself, when I will be ready to replace it with my own POS. I just do not want to bother with some war declaration (I am not a CEO)
A POS is a corp asset and as such requires corp action to validate getting rid of it, if you want the ability to choose to wardec to remove a tower then you need to start your own corp and be CEO. Charter are simply certificates from the local faction saying you can operate a tower there. Standing a tower up is entirely seperate and is governed by wardec mechanics. Allowing individuals to go rogue and hit any unchartered tower is circumventing these mechanics and shouldn't be allowed. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
2841
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 15:58:05 -
[29] - Quote
erg cz wrote:Hi.
To be able to use POS in high sec you have to pat not only fuel but also race charter. After your POS run out of fuel, it goes off line. But what is the conciquence of running out of chart? I suggeest it would be not only going off line but also loosing CONCORD protection.
Right now to shoot down abandoned POS in high sec requires war dec the corp. Which costs money and time. I suggest CONCORD will stop protecting POSes, that ran out of charters. So we can shoot it straight away to clear the space. POS without charter payment lost its right to be there, IMHO.
Right now, if a POS runs out of charters... it goes offline.
As far as your easy gank idea goes....Fight for what you want. Dec em. Working as intended.
-1
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
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Madeleine Lemmont
Divide et Impera DE
17
|
Posted - 2015.04.09 16:01:51 -
[30] - Quote
Concord should erase everybody, who attacks anything of anybody else in highsec, where the attacker has no war with.
POS running out of charters are a personal issue for the local authority only. They could be penalized by local authority or attacked by them. But not by honorless raiders looking for valueful victims.
---
If it becomes possible to join a local police force and run against enemies of the faction, you may also be able to see those POSes as suspicious ones. |
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