EVE Search - So much for the ECM nerf...

All Channels

Ships and Modules

So much for the ECM nerf...

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.10.27 03:58:00 - [61] Originally by: Siakel Edited by: Siakel on 27/10/2006 03:53:48 The problem with ECCM isn't really its strength, it's more that the module is absolutely useless if nobody is attempting to jam you. Every other counter-module adds a bonus to your ship or weapons even if you aren't being hit by the EW it counters. Warp stabs are completely useless if no one's scrambling you.
Siakel	Posted - 2006.10.27 04:10:00 - [62] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Siakel Edited by: Siakel on 27/10/2006 03:53:48 The problem with ECCM isn't really its strength, it's more that the module is absolutely useless if nobody is attempting to jam you. Every other counter-module adds a bonus to your ship or weapons even if you aren't being hit by the EW it counters. Warp stabs are completely useless if no one's scrambling you. Yes, and when someone's scrambling you, you warp out gauranteed unless they have more scrambling strength than you have stabs. If you fit a full rack of ECCM and Backup Arrays, you could still be jammed by a single Multispectral I while being completely useless against everything else. See the difference?
Crewman Jenkins	Posted - 2006.10.27 04:43:00 - [63] I still like the idea of making the use of ECM a ship dedicated action . Meaning that the use of effective ECM should either use most of a ship's resources or slots, or the act of using ECM should keep the player using it busy enough to degrade his combat ability. For a simple example of keeping an ecm user busy: Lets say each player has multiple frequencies they can use for targeting. The ECM player now has to figure out which frequency to jam. After a successful jam, the jammed player can choose a different frequency and immediatley retarget. Make it almost like a sub-game for the ecm player to play. Maybe the 4 racial targeting types could just be a selection for each player to fit onto their ship. Give each sensor type its own attributes? I know thats a bit out there. However, I think it would be great to make ecm, as it is now, harder than just a button push.
Malena Panic Gallente Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.10.27 05:00:00 - [64] If I were the boss of Eve, I'd change the effect of three modules: 1. ECM break locks, but do not prevent relocking. They have a 10 second cool down. 2. Sensor Boosters increase range, but do not decrease lock time. 3. ECCM add sensor strength and decrease lock time. I think that would create the same kind of 'tank vs. gank' fitting dilemma in the ECM realm.
Glory Ho	Posted - 2006.10.27 05:17:00 - [65] Like two of the informed members already said, make it role specific to a ship. CPU reduction or the like. Just like many of the other ships in game, esp. Recons. Leave muli-spec, with role specific ships. If someone wants to make their ship less effective, but more versatile, let them. Mind you this is with a return to point based system, but i don't want the rest of the old system to come back with it.
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.10.27 05:26:00 - [66] Edited by: Risien Drogonne on 27/10/2006 05:32:12 Edited by: Risien Drogonne on 27/10/2006 05:31:05 Originally by: Siakel Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Siakel Edited by: Siakel on 27/10/2006 03:53:48 The problem with ECCM isn't really its strength, it's more that the module is absolutely useless if nobody is attempting to jam you. Every other counter-module adds a bonus to your ship or weapons even if you aren't being hit by the EW it counters. Warp stabs are completely useless if no one's scrambling you. Yes, and when someone's scrambling you, you warp out gauranteed unless they have more scrambling strength than you have stabs. If you fit a full rack of ECCM and Backup Arrays, you could still be jammed by a single Multispectral I while being completely useless against everything else. See the difference? No, I don't, because all of these people expect to made immune to a thousand jamming modules simply by fitting one ECCM module. I'm trying to point out to them that nothing in this entire game works that way. And quite frankly, your chances of being jammed by a non-ECM-specialized ship when you have just 2 backup arrays fitted are so small it's not even worth worrying about unless you're the biggest crybaby in the universe. I mean, we're talking less than 2% here in a battleship. Is 2% really worth all this crying?
Beryllium Royal Crimson Lancers	Posted - 2006.10.27 05:51:00 - [67] My personal concept to change ECM was to compare the jamming strength vs. the sensor strength for a variable amount of time, after the probability of success is done, with the lock not being broken, just interrupted for that period. The example of a frigate with a multispec jamming a carrier would interrupt for maybe .2 of a second, just a little bit of static to the locking computer.
Dark PIne	Posted - 2006.10.27 06:12:00 - [68] Originally by: Davlin Lotze The nublars defending the existing ECM system make me chuckle. Eve is about outguessing your opponent before the battle. Fitting to cover most of the likely situations to occur and then having that result carried forth in your victory if you chose well. And in defeat if you chose poorly. The nublars in this thread want DICE ROLLS to decide. No more strat, just strap on nosses, some ECM, and hell, dont even worry about tackling anymore because inexplicably, WCS are now nerfed and you can't fit to run from an aforementioned "i-win" ecm setup. The result is not only "Easy" pvp...pvp more in the spirit of what BE does, but it's uninteresting and eminently boring. The above constellation is an "eve killer" setup. You cannot take away peoples ability to deal with all the "i-wins" still in the game(ofc here we're talking about ECM), whilst turning around and removing a selective few, ie WCS. Left to me, I would prefer ECM gets completely nerfed and lobotomized beyond belief AND the existing Kali nerf to WCS left right in place. We can have both of the above, but not just one. The Eve you described is like chess in space; you choose your fitting and make your move. After you undock there's not much you can do to affect the outcome of the battle. I don't find that kind of gaming fun. IMO there should always be a random element (=luck) in games. Problem with ECM is that the dice roll has too severe effects on the fight, because it disables the opponent's ability to fight back for a guaranteed period of time. This effect could be reduced if the length of jamming was based on the same formula as the success of jamming: Time of jamming = (Jammer's cycle time) * (Jamming strength) / (Target ship's sensor strength)
Demonica II	Posted - 2006.10.27 07:22:00 - [69] Edited by: Demonica II on 27/10/2006 07:22:27 There should be no ability ingame that disables someones ability to lock (dampners dont count, they dont actually remove your ability to lock, just hinder your range). It's the equivalent of making your opponent able to do anything, heal, fight, cause damage etc for the most part in any fantasy style mmorpg. It's overpowered completely. For most people, not being able to lock means not being able to fight back, not being able to fight back and just sitting there and dying is NOT FUN!
AsfALT	Posted - 2006.10.27 07:29:00 - [70] Edited by: AsfALT on 27/10/2006 07:33:17 Edited by: AsfALT on 27/10/2006 07:32:48 Someone says "i was jammed" and all of the sudden the ecm get's nerfed, what ppl fail to understand (or don't want to because it dosen't fit theyre play style) is that a ship that uses ecm sacrifices alot for it. I saw a post about some one who was complining that he has only 3 meds so where should he put his eccm... where do u think the ecm user puts them? In his lows? If someone wants to jam then he will use valuable med slots and capacitor for it. The argument that all the races ew are not balanced i can understand from a matari perspective as TP dosen't really help ur defence (it dose however help ur offecnce). Every ew has it's purpose, if u put 2 traking disrupts on a turret based ship it is screwed, it won't hit many things. Use some rsd on a ship and it will have horrible targeting range and speed . Everey EW type is counterable to a degree with the exception of TP. U think u will get jammed, use eccm and ur chances of getting jammed will decrease. (a point could be made that eccm should also give another bonus) U think u will be traking disrupted or u want better traking, use traking comps. U think u will be sensor dampned or u want better targeting spped and range, use sensor boosters. U think u will be painted, well u will be. That dosen't hinder ur ability to fight, it just helps the other guy to kill u faster.
AsfALT	Posted - 2006.10.27 07:32:00 - [71] Originally by: Dark PIne ... This effect could be reduced if the length of jamming was based on the same formula as the success of jamming: Time of jamming = (Jammer's cycle time) * (Jamming strength) / (Target ship's sensor strength) Interesting idea.
Loka Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.27 07:53:00 - [72] Originally by: AsfALT Originally by: Dark PIne ... This effect could be reduced if the length of jamming was based on the same formula as the success of jamming: *Time of jamming = (Jammer's cycle time) (Jamming strength) / (Target ship's sensor strength) Interesting idea. Thats really cool. Nice idear, hope someone point that to the DEV Team. _________________________ Noob In Action - [NIA]**
Illuminaty ISS Logistics Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.27 08:21:00 - [73] TBH, I think ECM is going to be 'broken' until it is a 100% system like the rest of the Ewar types. Stasis webbing, scrambling, painting, tracking disrupting, and damping all work 100% of the time. Someone just need to think up a _really_ good mechanic for messing with the 'targeting' systems on ships that could be applied 100% of the time without being a 100% lockdown or being a giant waste of time.
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2006.10.27 09:09:00 - [74] Considering the rather huge nerf ECM just got, how about we just live with the new system for few months, and see how things look after that? To me it seems it was nerfed enough to make people seriously consider if it is still worth of wasting those medslot for occasional chance to jam. And yet, if you like to fight with frigate swarm, you all can still fit single ECM and go beat those lone battleships together. -Lasse
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.27 09:16:00 - [75] Originally by: Butter Dog Well, I just had a Myrm V Myrm fight on the test server. He had two T1 multispec ECM's fitted. I lol'd to myself, thinking this was a nub who clearly forgot about the nerf. Oh, how wrong I was. I spent 50% of the fight jammed. He won easily. The nerf does NOT work. The fact its still chance based means the multispec of doom is still very much alive and kicking. Yea, it is the randomness of ecm that sucks in 1 vs 1 not the strengths them selves. If you are lucky, you will never be locked. If not, well Mind control and tin hats
Spanker	Posted - 2006.10.27 09:21:00 - [76] This may be a longshot, heh, but are you sure the EW nerf changes are active on sisi yet? - Shpank
Lygos ISS Navy Task Force	Posted - 2006.10.27 09:46:00 - [77] My stance is simple, go with old system, but give every ship 4 targetting stats. Magnetometric for gallente vessels. Gravimetric for targetting caldari vessels, and so on and so forth with ladar and radar. This way, ships have to be jammed in all four stats to make them unable to target any of the four. You have the option of just jamming them in 1-3 instead. Under the old system, multi-specs were inefficient. Nothing would change really, except ECCM would be more tactical. Boost lowslot ECCM btw. --- Private Investment should preceed Public Investment
Litus Arowar Amarr Obsidian Asylum Pure.	Posted - 2006.10.27 10:12:00 - [78] remember when warp scrambling would cycle for what was it, 30 seconds? so inties would warp in, scramble, warp out, and never risk anything at all? how'd they fix that... by reducing the cycle time why not try that with the chance based ECMing... if the cycles were 5 seconds, there'd be a crapload more TIMES you get your lock broken in a fight, but true statistical randomness would be more apparent only problem there is the locking time on big and small ships, where big ships would be permajammed with even a 50% chance, while small ones would be able to acquire lock a second after a jam fails... how would one balance this, I don't know, perhaps re-locking a target that was previously locked could be made quicker or something cytomatrix> Try sitting inside a big frickin ball filled up with glue and tubes stuck up your nose and your arse. Then compare RL and Eve.
Polinus	Posted - 2006.10.27 10:22:00 - [79] Edited by: Polinus on 27/10/2006 10:23:23 Think ECEm should operate much more like in RL sicne RL is more balanced. ECm reduces target range and signature. So for example a single ECM should recuce my enemy range to lock by 25% and my signaature by 25%. Of course staack penalties areneeded so that you neveere ever can reach 100% but at most 80% or so.. Of course eith the effects depending on the difference between jamming and sensor/eccm strenght. This would make ECM perfect against missiles (making you sig smaller than explosiion). A very good non existent as of now, missile counter.
Severa Crest Nomina Sacra Sapientia Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.27 10:45:00 - [80] Originally by: Butter Dog Well, I just had a Myrm V Myrm fight on the test server. He had two T1 multispec ECM's fitted. I lol'd to myself, thinking this was a nub who clearly forgot about the nerf. Oh, how wrong I was. I spent 50% of the fight jammed. He won easily. The nerf does NOT work. The fact its still chance based means the multispec of doom is still very much alive and kicking. The nerf was not to make ecm useless. A ship with no ew bonuses can still make use of TDs and damps, why not ecm? The fact is you went into the fight knowing he had ecm fitted and had no counter. He used 2 slots to jam you, what would have happened you think if you had used 2 slots to counter?
Madame Savage	Posted - 2006.10.27 10:50:00 - [81] Change ECM that it only break lock. Add a Skill that you can Jam up to 5 sec. Change Shipboni of Scorp and BB so that you can Jam up to 10 sec (with full specced Skill and Ship Boni) Remove ECM drones ! or If you are jammed, jam breaks if you take damage. You can be taken out of the combat for a while but you cant get harmed. It will require teamwork to jam the right targets and maybe dedicated "Antijam" Ships like ceptors which shoot you out of jam.
AsfALT	Posted - 2006.10.27 10:54:00 - [82] Originally by: Madame Savage Change ECM that it only break lock. Add a Skill that you can Jam up to 5 sec. Change Shipboni of Scorp and BB so that you can Jam up to 10 sec (with full specced Skill and Ship Boni) Remove ECM drones ! or If you are jammed, jam breaks if you take damage. You can be taken out of the combat for a while but you cant get harmed. It will require teamwork to jam the right targets and maybe dedicated "Antijam" Ships like ceptors which shoot you out of jam. Bolded part is stupid imho. I get it u like the wow sheep (some skill)?
commander tycho Minmatar Blood Inquisition Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:18:00 - [83] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Sonorra Baki That might be true if your a mission nub in a nub corp, and never leaves Jita What, you're complaining that a module whose job is to hamper your ability to fight back hampers your ability to fight back? The guy said it was impossible to fight back. I proved him wrong. No, he proved you wrong actually. Some ships dont have missiles or drones, think of that? How about keep ECM the same but make the ECCM module able to break the targetting lockdown. For example, someone jams you, you turn on your eccm mod and breaks the effect. The mod would have a lengthy cooldown of course so that it doesnt completely negate the effect of ecm.
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:34:00 - [84] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire @ Butter Dog. Bad luck? It is hard to cry foul when you have a stroke of bad luck. If the jammer did not work, you would have killed him in seconds and not posted about it. ECM abuse will be over and the next flavour will be dampeners. But thats the WHOLE POINT. It should NOT be about luck. Thats is the point I am making. Basing fights on random rolls of the dice is nothing short of a pathetic excuse for a combat system.
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:38:00 - [85] Edited by: Butter Dog on 27/10/2006 11:38:34 Originally by: Malena Panic If I were the boss of Eve, I'd change the effect of three modules: 1. ECM break locks, but do not prevent relocking. They have a 10 second cool down. 2. Sensor Boosters increase range, but do not decrease lock time. 3. ECCM add sensor strength and decrease lock time. I think that would create the same kind of 'tank vs. gank' fitting dilemma in the ECM realm. These are actually pretty good suggestions, but it still doesnt remove the 'dice roll' element. AFAIK ECM is the only module to be based purely on luck.
Bermag Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:43:00 - [86] The bad thing with ECM IMO is that it is "all or nothing". I think breaking lock and having a lock delay is one good option, also to have a cool down so you can't be perma jammed. I would like to add one other idea. How about ECM adds an additional "risk to miss factor" which affect both missile and gun ships. With other words, add an extra "dice roll" for chance to hit based on jamming strength vs sensor strength.
Sonorra Baki	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:53:00 - [87] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Sonorra Baki That might be true if your a mission nub in a nub corp, and never leaves Jita What, you're complaining that a module whose job is to hamper your ability to fight back hampers your ability to fight back? The guy said it was impossible to fight back. I proved him wrong. Saying "use fof's and drones" is not proving anybody Wrong. Imagine yourself in any amarr ship for example, then try see how good your statement is then.
Lakotnik	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:58:00 - [88] Originally by: Dark PIne This effect could be reduced if the length of jamming was based on the same formula as the success of jamming: Time of jamming = (Jammer's cycle time) * (Jamming strength) / (Target ship's sensor strength) What if we take this system and make ECM hit every single time? But after that time of jamming is gone, ship relocks instantly (or takes the same time for locking it was jammed without requiring to press anything). Or we can take current chance based system with or without instant - or auto - relock ... Anyway, i like your idea. One ECM wont be the I-win button, but if you fit some on any ships with several mids to spare, it is quite effective.
Reatu Krentor Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2006.10.27 12:01:00 - [89] in 1v1 current ecm system(on TQ) is quite powerfull, but the old system was even worse. In the old system once you were jammed you would only get unjammed if the jamming ship died. But how are you going to manage that in a 1v1 if you're jammed? New system there is a chance that the jamming will fail(jamming chance right now is pretty high on TQ, on sisi it's approx. half of that atm). Even though you might not believe it, turrets are chance based . Even with everything going for you in terms of sig radius, tracking, range, your grandma.. You can still miss. The chance based part of ecm is not really the problem imo... It's the effect when it's succesfull that could be looked at. With the chance to jam halved, I rather think sensor damps and tracking disruptors are going to become better to use(ok tracking disruptors are only usefull vs. turret ships). Crystal-Slave, that way? Potential solution to the current Recon cloak and cyno bug
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.27 12:12:00 - [90] Originally by: Reatu Krentor in 1v1 current ecm system(on TQ) is quite powerfull, but the old system was even worse. In the old system once you were jammed you would only get unjammed if the jamming ship died. But how are you going to manage that in a 1v1 if you're jammed? New system there is a chance that the jamming will fail(jamming chance right now is pretty high on TQ, on sisi it's approx. half of that atm). Exactly. It's easy to forget that chance also works in your favor, at times. There's a huge difference between 5% chance of jam failing and zero chance of jam failing, on both sides.

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.