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Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:01:00 -
[1]
Well, I just had a Myrm V Myrm fight on the test server.
He had two T1 multispec ECM's fitted. I lol'd to myself, thinking this was a nub who clearly forgot about the nerf.
Oh, how wrong I was.
I spent 50% of the fight jammed. He won easily.
The nerf does NOT work. The fact its still chance based means the multispec of doom is still very much alive and kicking.
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lofty29
Tolarri Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:05:00 -
[2]
Old system pleaaase
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Praxiteles Inc. is Recruiting! |
Deadeye Dave
Amarr
DIE WITH HONOUR
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:07:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Deadeye Dave on 26/10/2006 20:07:33
Am I right in thinking the 'ECM Nerf' was just lowering strength yet they are still chance based?
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Grimpak
Gallente
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:08:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Deadeye Dave
Edited by: Deadeye Dave on 26/10/2006 20:07:33
Am I right in thinking the 'ECM Nerf' was just lowering strength yet they are still chance based?
yep.
....wouldn't mind removing the multispecs altogether tho
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Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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infraX
Caldari
Corsets and Carebears
Whips and Chains
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:13:00 -
[5]
Perhaps they can greatly reduce the cycle time on non ecm specific ships aswell?
Signautre removed - not suitable for a teen audience - Serathu ([email protected])
Please keep your signature under 24,000 bytes. Thanks -Eldo([email protected]) |
Ebrenn Kerens
Gallente
Terror Knights
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:14:00 -
[6]
Originally by: lofty29
Old system pleaaase
What was the old system?
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Alexi Borizkova
Caldari
New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:15:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ebrenn Kerens
Originally by: lofty29
Old system pleaaase
What was the old system?
A ship has X sensor strength. If you apply X or great jam strength to it, it is locked down, period, no ifs ands or buts.
In Corporate Caldari, taxes pay YOU. |
Grimpak
Gallente
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ebrenn Kerens
Originally by: lofty29
Old system pleaaase
What was the old system?
ship has 20 magnetometric sensor str.
you need 21 magnetometric jam str to jam it.
kinda like "who has more jam str wins" and instead a single scorp has the ability to theoretically jam 8 BS'es, in the old system, you would need almost all the slots to jam 1, maybe 2 BS'es.
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Originally by: Tiuwaz
for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons 
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Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:17:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Alexi Borizkova
Originally by: Ebrenn Kerens
Originally by: lofty29
Old system pleaaase
What was the old system?
A ship has X sensor strength. If you apply X or great jam strength to it, it is locked down, period, no ifs ands or buts.
this was actually a really good system... it mean no ridiculous 'multispecs of doom', and winning fights by nothing more than the role of a dice
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Nebuli
Caldari
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:21:00 -
[10]
The old system > the new one, always said it, always will.
Agreed that the old system was far from perfect, but compared to the current system its FAR better imo.
What it meant was that if you wanted to jam people you HAD to dedicate alot of mid slots to ECM to jam anything, a single ECM did nothing, you couldnt jam anything with it.
To jam a single target using multis you needed at least 4 ECMs, sometimes 5.
This meant that dedicated jamming ships like the scorp and BB were generaly the only ships using ECM, which is how it should be, you never had frigs flying around jamming BSs, and even capital ships now, I jammed a carrier with a single mutli spec on a frigate a few months back lol.
CEO - Art of War
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LWMaverick
Quam Singulari
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:22:00 -
[11]
The ecm "nerf" is more than enough, no need to change it again tbh.
Its pretty unlucky that he jammed you like that, since the ecm got an overall 40% reduction compared to what it is atm on tq.(afaik)
and no, the old system is defiantly not any better!
<3  |
Grimpak
Gallente
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Nebuli
The old system > the new one, always said it, always will.
Agreed that the old system was far from perfect, but compared to the current system its FAR better imo.
What it meant was that if you wanted to jam people you HAD to dedicate alot of mid slots to ECM to jam anything, a single ECM did nothing, you couldnt jam anything with it.
To jam a single target using multis you needed at least 4 ECMs, sometimes 5.
This meant that dedicated jamming ships like the scorp and BB were generaly the only ships using ECM, which is how it should be, you never had frigs flying around jamming BSs, and even capital ships now, I jammed a carrier with a single mutli spec on a frigate a few months back lol.
it also was totally 1 sided, since it bogged down to wich scorp had bigger targeting range, since Ewar didn't had range limitations back then.
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Originally by: Tiuwaz
for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
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Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:24:00 -
[13]
Originally by: LWMaverick
The ecm "nerf" is more than enough, no need to change it again tbh.
Its pretty unlucky that he jammed you like that, since the ecm got an overall 40% reduction compared to what it is atm on tq.(afaik)
and no, the old system is defiantly not any better!
winning a fight by chance, a roll of the dice, is ridiculous. Always has been and always will be
they could change the strength to 0.5 and it would still be a crappy system
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Bardi MecAuldnis
Amarr
Pirates of Destruction Union
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.26 21:55:00 -
[14]
I never saw the old system spelled out. I like it. Does it remind you of anything? That's right! Warp scramming!!! Sounds like a good system. If they went back to it, ECCM should have penalties just as WCS do. And sensor strength should be lowered a bit.
I'm rambling...
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Hey hey let's go kenka suru!
Taisetsuna mono protect my balls!
Boku ga warui, so lets fighting!
LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!! |
Vladimir Norkoff
Crimson Knights Trade Federation
Thundering Mantis
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Posted - 2006.10.26 22:09:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Well, I just had a Myrm V Myrm fight on the test server.
He had two T1 multispec ECM's fitted. I lol'd to myself, thinking this was a nub who clearly forgot about the nerf.
Oh, how wrong I was.
I spent 50% of the fight jammed. He won easily.
The nerf does NOT work. The fact its still chance based means the multispec of doom is still very much alive and kicking.
VN: Did you have an ECCM fitted?
BD: No.
VN: Why not?
BD: Because I shouldn't have to! EWar should not be a factor!
VN: Err.. What if I said that Explosive damage shouldn't be a factor because I don't want to fit armor hardeners?
BD: Then you'd be a noob! EWar sucks!
VN: Thankyou for your wise input.
BD: STFU!!!1111oneoneone
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AsfALT
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Posted - 2006.10.26 22:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: LWMaverick
The ecm "nerf" is more than enough, no need to change it again tbh.
Its pretty unlucky that he jammed you like that, since the ecm got an overall 40% reduction compared to what it is atm on tq.(afaik)
and no, the old system is defiantly not any better!
winning a fight by chance, a roll of the dice, is ridiculous. Always has been and always will be
they could change the strength to 0.5 and it would still be a crappy system
Why is luck so ridiculous?
Imagine 2 guys shooting eachother from a distance with assault rifles (not famous for accuracy so it's generaly aimed at the torso), one is lucky and shoots the other in the head... fight over.
Just be glad that wreakings don't have such a drastic effect :)
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Altemi Calabre
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Posted - 2006.10.26 22:24:00 -
[17]
Luck is ridiculous you say?
Intriguing.
Considering that turret damage is random as affected by other variables. One ship getting lucky in a flat standoff could decide the entire fight.
Some form of random element is decidedly more sensible than the 'all or nothing' you describe that encourages nothing more than pack ganks of ECM to ensure one person can do absolutely nothing while they just sit there and die.
Oh yes, that's fun. :)
~ Why is it those with the greatest responsibility to make good decisions so often seem the least capable or inclined?
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.10.26 22:32:00 -
[18]
Old old ECM system sucked. Seriously.
The new one, while needing some tweaking, is a huge improvement. While I hate to see ECM on all ships (as we have now), the old system has ECM on Scorps and BBs. And that's it.
Maybe you think that's a good thing, I don't. I like there being some wildcards in combat, something besides raw DPS and tank.
...but yeah, the current system seriously needed a nerf.
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AsfALT
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Posted - 2006.10.26 22:35:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Old old ECM system sucked. Seriously.
The new one, while needing some tweaking, is a huge improvement. While I hate to see ECM on all ships (as we have now), the old system has ECM on Scorps and BBs. And that's it.
Maybe you think that's a good thing, I don't. I like there being some wildcards in combat, something besides raw DPS and tank.
...but yeah, the current system seriously needed a nerf.
It just got one...
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DeadRow
True Core
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Posted - 2006.10.26 22:37:00 -
[20]
Originally by: lofty29
Old system pleaaase
No way, hated the old system
/DeadRow, True Core
Sig Wanted. |
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Blind Man
Caldari
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.10.26 22:42:00 -
[21]
ECM should in NO WAY be better than tracking disrupting, painting, or dampening. it should be just another racial EW and not really enough to make a big difference in a battle 
It's great flying Amarr, ain't it? |
Leshrac Shepherd
Amarr
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.26 22:47:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ebrenn Kerens
Originally by: lofty29
Old system pleaaase
What was the old system?
Something you don't want to see tbh, people (including me) seem to remember it fondly because only dedicated ecm ships used jammers, but the system was even more ****** up than the one we have now, with **** like having lvl1 skill in EW meant you were more effective than if you had lvl 5.
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.26 22:54:00 -
[23]
nobody want's old systems with no cycle...
we just want no random thingie... Basicly if i fit full rack of backups i want to be jam proof from 1 ship(2 or more should still be able to jam).
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Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
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Posted - 2006.10.26 22:55:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Altemi Calabre
Luck is ridiculous you say?
Intriguing.
Considering that turret damage is random as affected by other variables. One ship getting lucky in a flat standoff could decide the entire fight.
Some form of random element is decidedly more sensible than the 'all or nothing' you describe that encourages nothing more than pack ganks of ECM to ensure one person can do absolutely nothing while they just sit there and die.
Oh yes, that's fun. :)
Well, turret damage is certianly NOT luck based. Tracking, range, sig radius, transversal etc can all be directly influenced by the player. A skilled turret user who knows what they are doing, with the right fitting, will inflict more damage, and thats down to skill NOT luck. The two are not comparable at all.
ECM turns all your weapons off at the roll of a dice. You might get jammed, you might not. Its an extremely primitive system.
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Davlin Lotze
Raging Destruction
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:24:00 -
[25]
The nublars defending the existing ECM system make me chuckle.
Eve is about outguessing your opponent before the battle. Fitting to cover most of the likely situations to occur and then having that result carried forth in your victory if you chose well. And in defeat if you chose poorly.
The nublars in this thread want DICE ROLLS to decide. No more strat, just strap on nosses, some ECM, and hell, dont even worry about tackling anymore because inexplicably, WCS are now nerfed and you can't fit to run from an aforementioned "i-win" ecm setup. The result is not only "Easy" pvp...pvp more in the spirit of what BE does, but it's uninteresting and eminently boring. The above constellation is an "eve killer" setup. You cannot take away peoples ability to deal with all the "i-wins" still in the game(ofc here we're talking about ECM), whilst turning around and removing a selective few, ie WCS.
Left to me, I would prefer ECM gets completely nerfed and lobotomized beyond belief AND the existing Kali nerf to WCS left right in place. We can have both of the above, but not just one.
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Tiuwaz
Minmatar
Omacron Militia
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:29:00 -
[26]
the old system sucks, the new system sucks aswell even after the nerf
its like debating if you want get shot into your groin or your face
Originally by: Oveur
This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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sarabando
Caldari
Guardians of Hell's Gate
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:36:00 -
[27]
i was thinking keep it the was it is but instead of perma jamming some one it acted like a targeted ecm burst and just broke there lock
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Scordite
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:40:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff
VN: Did you have an ECCM fitted?
BD: No.
VN: Why not?
Alternative answer:
Because I have 3 midslots, with ECCM I have to drop injector, which is bad since I have very high cap consumption on my guns despite maxed skills, or web, which is bad because you're likely to be faster than me and thus able to dictate range, or scram which makes me only able to fight defensively.. And my ship has the lowest sensor strenght of any of it's size in the game, so I'd need 2, possibly even 3 lowslots filled with backup arrays to make a decent difference, but if I do that, I auto-loose anyways because my tank and/or damage is much more gimped than the guy I'm fighting against is gimping his setup by fitting one ECM. And even if I did fit 3 backup arrays or sacrificed one of my mids, I'd still be jammed eventually, which is likely to make the fight a loss, or at best, a draw.
Now compare the effect of tracking disruptor and sensor dampener on ships that have no room to fit counter-mods. Dampened? Fly closer. Tracking disrupted? Web him and stop your own ship, make sure you're a bit above optimal, whatever else you can think of to maximise tracking. Fight will be harder for you, but at least you still have options.
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The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag:
Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead. |
Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:45:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Well, I just had a Myrm V Myrm fight on the test server.
He had two T1 multispec ECM's fitted. I lol'd to myself, thinking this was a nub who clearly forgot about the nerf.
Oh, how wrong I was.
I spent 50% of the fight jammed. He won easily.
The nerf does NOT work. The fact its still chance based means the multispec of doom is still very much alive and kicking.
He had half the chance he had before. Were you thinking the nerf was supposed to make you immune to ECM or something? You just got unlucky.
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:51:00 -
[30]
Originally by: LUKEC
nobody want's old systems with no cycle...
we just want no random thingie... Basicly if i fit full rack of backups i want to be jam proof from 1 ship(2 or more should still be able to jam).
If I fit a full rack of hardeners, I want to be immune to the damage from 1 ship.
That statement still sound reasonable when applied to other modules?
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