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Clueless 4tw-BoB vs. ASCN thread

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Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.10.28 19:55:00 - [61] Edited by: Nez Perces on 28/10/2006 19:56:37 .. I believe there is another reason as to why BoB doesn't get attacked en massse when they are at war with one party or another... I believe BoB are less hated than it would actually seem... yes there are a lot of flame wars to do with BoB and there are a lot of BoB haters out there.. who are quite loud. But the reality is that alliance leaders recognize BoB for what it is.... a powerful force that is more useful to EVE alive than bandwagoned. For this reason, alliances might prefer to look on as BoB pound somebody they really really hate and then take their chances with BoB in the future. Besides BoB at the end of the day are atm the template for unlimited success in a 0.0 environment as far as alliances are concerned. Bottom line is that I believe that there is always somebody out there that alliances hate more than BoB, despite what it looks like on the forums. I could be talking rubbish ofc.. but thats the conclusion I have reached. [edit: typo]
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.28 19:56:00 - [62] Originally by: Karina Harington Originally by: SATAN What I dont know is why you would side with BoB on anything, you know full well that Axe/ASCN are no threat you have seen it first hand. They are not that kind of player they will come, fight win some loose some and go home. BoB on the other hand will NOT allow AAA to get too big, they will not allow you to build say a TITAN, they will make damn sure you never become a serious threat to them. And same goes for D2 and Iron. Are you off trying to destroy BoB? No? Then why should we go off and save ASCN's ego? Do you want BoB dead or not? this is nothing to do with ASCN, tbh, apart from the fact they would fight them too
Darko1107 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.28 19:57:00 - [63] Originally by: MrRogerz Originally by: Darko1107 Game, Set, Match. Satan. I Could not a agree more. AAA with thier "lets attack AXE". D2 with "lets have a 3 way". Iron with thier "lets kill risk". Alliance X with thier "any excuse not to risk it vrs bob". BoB have slept around and napped alliances for years just to ** others off and then inevitably turned round and slaped thier past allies about. At the pt where we have the chance to do it right back to bob when they are most vunerable. No1 actually does. G/IRON Would have gone for it. But who are they. Iron can't do anything when they are supposed to be dead. D2? They had trouble with the Goons...come on... IRON are a ***** good alliance, dont even try and put them down. They have been going ages and they are now stronger than they have ever been before with a very decent capital ship fleet for thier size. We are far from dead and are killing more ships and POS per day than we ever have done before. D2 had problems with goonfleet before of lag foremost, and because of a mixup when STV left thier alliance. Whoever you are, you dont seem like 1 that should be commenting on anything like this anyway. ------------------ Sig removed, please keep it under the 24,000 byte limit, if you have any questions please email [email protected] - Xorus
Myz Toyou eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.28 20:09:00 - [64] Originally by: Fi T'Zeh You forgot to mention that we eat babies, live in our mom's basement, and have poor personal hygiene. But you have also Models as girlfriends and I¦m really jealous of that fact
Snodgey2004 Mega Modal M0nkeys	Posted - 2006.10.28 20:09:00 - [65] I find it strange that some BE member is saying the D2 are allying with BoB , recently while flying around Providence a D2 gang passed through and maybe it was just for a laugh ( I was the only non-D2/Friendly person there ) but from what I saw in local the reason D2 are down south is to make sure that neither ASCN or BoB gets the upper hand on eachother , I don't know why they'd not want this to happen if anyone could enlighten me ? As for nobody having the skills or balls or whatever to fight BoB , I know a certain corp cough Outbreak cough who would give any BoB fleet a run for their money , but some people couldn't give a rats about politics and are happy to have any alliance as a neightbour just aslong they are there to shoot at .
BlackDog Rackh'am Minmatar Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.28 20:18:00 - [66] Well, i would never consider getting involved in this unless i received some significant payment as a group. The reason is that while BoB may be the movie-like supervillain of the EvE cluster, i have reasons to dislike ASCN equally. Most of the speculation going around is on the basis of "what if D2 attacked BoB". Well, let's take a good look at D2. You'll see that it's mainly comprised of ex-G and ex-TRUST. The dealings between G and ASCN are recent, so i guess we won't need to go into that. The ex-TRUST in D2 are comprised of some corps that also have an axe to grind with ASCN due to the ECP incident. Everyone knows that it's not too hard to suffer some dreadnought losses without an adequate system lockdown. In that sense, ASCN's role in the ECP incident was substantial and instrumental. The rest of ex-TRUST are some corps that were once in the same alliance as much of the ASCN leadership, namely Xetic. More importantly, they are the ones that were set to negative by ASCN shortly after ASCN leadership pulled their corps out of XF to secure a separate peace with the same enemy they had provoked into attacking in the first place. Where are these aggressors today? Lo and behold, their main cadre of leaders and planners is in BoB (ex-Atuk/Dice). I think that people in XT and 3-I are just enjoying the irony of ASCN endagered by the very same group that allowed them to exist in the first place a little too much to get involved. So from a purely historical/sentimental standpoint, D2 has no reason whatsoever to side with ASCN in this. It also makes some sense strategically. D2 have been engaged in bloody POS wars for months. It started in early June and practically lasted during the whole of summer (maybe more, i don't remember exactly when TCF withdrew from tribute). I was there during the start of the campaign against TCF in Venal, then in XZH against the goons too and shortly after i joined my current alliance D2 was still fighting another POS war against TCF in tribute. This does tend to put a strain on logistics, as well as on the morale of an alliance's members. This is a great game because it's complicated to a high extent, but this is also the reason that some aspects are considered the work you have to do in order to reap some rewards and do something fun later. In layman's terms, POS wars are not terribly exciting, but you need to secure your space and make some isk before you go rampant in HAC ganksquads for the hell of it. Judging by their recent escapades, that's exactly what they have been doing. Last but not least, they can balance their manpower between preparation for the next war (capitals,titans, stockpiling of resources) and raiding while sitting out the current conflict and waiting for those involved to lose some of their strength. This war only helps them solidify their position, as it puts two of their major long time enemies out of the immediate picture for a substantial amount of time and leaves them unchecked. A grunt will always look for fights, but leaders play this game more like a strategy game than a combat simulator (another testament to EvE's variety). I would do the same thing if i was in their leader's shoes
XxAngelxX Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.28 20:19:00 - [67] Yeah, we don't like BOB, but we don't like ASCN much either. We also dont like node crashes, lag, and people logging off in bubbles. Times change, and so does politics. Each alliance has their own reason for doing what they do, and I dont think it is your place to question others motivations when it is purely speculation. When the time comes for fighting, you can be damn sure IRON will.
Oreh Anavrin No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.28 20:20:00 - [68] While I agree 100%, your doing the same thing you accuse others of doing. ________________________________________ 12 inches of pure t2 cruise missile looove
DeadProphet Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.28 20:21:00 - [69] to the OP: Don't worry, ASCN is hiring every merc that will accept the contract against us, they are getting some help in :)
Halada Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.28 20:31:00 - [70] A man not afraid to speak his mind, you have my respects sir. Nice post! My mining guide
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.28 20:32:00 - [71] I think the two or three times I've been on an op down south (30-60 man); the lag has been so horrendous that the op has been called off. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
SATAN BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.10.28 20:34:00 - [72] What I see is a bunch of people saying o no big deal when BoB is done with ASCN they can try to attack us and we will put up a fight and show them what we are made of. You may be right, but in the end you will get steam rolled just like everyone else. Your best chance is to side with those that you may not like or hate for that matter. None of you have had a successful track record when dealing with BoB alone, and in the past it was ASCN who helped bob the most. What do you think is going to happen with all the hobbits when they loose? Some will be allowed to join BoB others will be forced to slave mine for BoB. In the end you will be worse off than you were before.
BlackSabbath Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.28 20:34:00 - [73] did i hear bob destroys alliances? more like they have others do all the fighting and declare them selfs winners on forum. Firefox 2.0 build in spell checker rules ================================ "i am only here to **** you off"
Karina Harington Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.28 20:35:00 - [74] Originally by: Butter Dog Do you want BoB dead or not? No more or less than I'd like to see ASCN dead.
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.28 20:36:00 - [75] Originally by: Karina Harington Originally by: Butter Dog Do you want BoB dead or not? No more or less than I'd like to see ASCN dead. Then you are short sighted. ASCN are no threat to you.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.10.28 20:49:00 - [76] Edited by: Nez Perces on 28/10/2006 20:51:40 Originally by: Butter Dog Then you are short sighted. ASCN are no threat to you. I think you are getting hung up on the fact that BoB's arrogance bothers you... an alliance not joining/creating an anti-BoB bandwagon has nothing to do with shortsightedness.. and infact it is this type of argument that is shortsighted. Lets pretend for a second that a huge bandwagon gets together and attacks BoB on several fronts and they get steamrollered and BoB loses its space. What happens then? The cycle of life will just continue.. and there will be somebody else to shoot, or BoB will give up their space and go on the rampage etc.. etc..the net effect of killing BoB will not actually have any real implications upon your future potential or security as an alliance. From a leadership point of view, all this talk of ultra long-term planning of looking to neutralise BoB for future purposes is a non-issue. Besides there isn't a single one of the big power blocks in EVE atm, that does not believe that it can stand up to BoB at anytime.. infact I would suggest that every one of the power blocks has put into place measures that would make sure they could stand up to BoB over a prolonged period of warfare. How big LV, D2 and ASCN have got.. is probably directly related to how strong a threat they percieve BoB to be. BoB is fighting ASCN.. and that is all there is to it... its simply a fight between two of the power blocks.. and probably the other 2 big power blocks will look on and correctly realise that it has no real net effect on them neither now or in the future, wether BoB is the victor or not.
darth solo Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.10.28 21:05:00 - [77] His words are true, in fact if i didnt look closer it could have been made by myself. you are all S P I N E L E S S. d solo.
NeoTech Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.28 21:07:00 - [78] Edited by: NeoTech on 28/10/2006 21:08:08 Can someone explain why ASCN is so hated? And about the E3 system.. well, AAA and RA were the one attacking us. Not the other way around. I dont see why BoB hates us either, in fact, i dont really know why this damn war started. But now it has begun, and theres nothing to do about that. :) Cant wait to see whos next on the BoB list :D Good post btw, i was pretty amazed when i saw it was a BE member. :P I had to squeze my skin to make sure i was not dreaming. :) BTW... Celestial Apocalypse rules :D
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.28 21:10:00 - [79] Good post by the OP. And it's funny to see how those who have suffered some major setbacks and whined about BoB and their destructive influence () on Eve are now either bandwaggoning us or pretending that nothing is going on.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.10.28 21:26:00 - [80] Originally by: Moghydin And it's funny to see how those who have suffered some major setbacks and whined about BoB and their destructive influence () on Eve are now either bandwaggoning us or pretending that nothing is going on. The question that is begging to be asked here is the following one : Q : If BoB were attacking D2 right now, would ASCN feel the need to attack BoB and or join an anti-BoB bandwagon? I think the honest answer would be no, but ofc we can never know for sure. PS. The question could ofc be put to any of the other big power blocks and exchange the target for any alliance block but themselves. And I believe the honest answer would still be no.
Myz Toyou eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.28 21:39:00 - [81] Originally by: Nez Perces Originally by: Moghydin And it's funny to see how those who have suffered some major setbacks and whined about BoB and their destructive influence () on Eve are now either bandwaggoning us or pretending that nothing is going on. The question that is begging to be asked here is the following one : Q : If BoB were attacking D2 right now, would ASCN feel the need to attack BoB and or join an anti-BoB bandwagon? I think the honest answer would be no, but ofc we can never know for sure. PS. The question could ofc be put to any of the other big power blocks and exchange the target for any alliance block but themselves. And I believe the honest answer would still be no. And here is exactly the difference between BOB and the other 3 "Superpowers" , BOB gives a ****, and I dont mean that as a flame, what the EVE community thinks. They hit G/IRON when they were in the south fighting us only to make sure they getting not a really issue to deal with. They had also no problem to side with us and others to do the EC thing. They crushed Goons before they became an "bigger" issue to deal with. The problem is not the low scruple of BOB to do only what is the best for BOB, the problem is that "we" others have to much scruple to do the same !
pershphanie Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.28 21:42:00 - [82] Originally by: Shin Ra Originally by: NATMav Originally by: Shin Ra Originally by: NATMav And BURN EDEN is where? That's right you're ganking miners in Pure Blind. Yeah cause our "good friends" ASCN and Celes are just begging for our help. Wasn't that kind of the point of your post? Putting aside differences to attack a bigger threat? Alright then lets NAP and go to NOL? Nothing the op suggested will ever happen and this is why. No one in eve understands the difference between an ally and a friend. Alliances in eve never can seem to put asaide petty differences to work towards a common goal. Pretty close to 100% of corps/alliances are more than willing to act against their best interest if it means putting someone to blue for a short time. Hell, they wouldnt even need to put each other to blue to do this. In fact it might be more fun that way. How cool would it be if everyone went to come kill bob and still keep each other at -10. A huge free for all would be awsome. But that will never happen. Believe me when I say I tried several times and never got anywhere. The only leader I talked to was willing to be even mildly cooperative was Annihilus. I'm not sure whether it comes from fear, vanity, or lack og long term vision, but getting along with alliances that were previously hostile to accomplish something in their own best interest is something people just arent willing to try. Sorry to use you as the example Shin. I know BE wouldnt necessarily benifit in any way from bobs destruction. I only quoted you to show an attitude that is pretty much universal in all corp/alliance leaders. Originally by: CYVOK If you surrender now we will consider letting you guys keep Fountain. -CYVOK-
Dynast Knights of Red Mars	Posted - 2006.10.28 21:42:00 - [83] Edited by: Dynast on 28/10/2006 21:43:16 Originally by: NeoTech Edited by: NeoTech on 28/10/2006 21:08:08 Can someone explain why ASCN is so hated? It varies from party to party. ex-TRUST likely hate ASCN for helping BoB blob the hell out of their capital shipyards with (at peak) 600+ ships. These people are largely in D2 now. ex-Xetic likely hate ASCN for what went down when now-ASCN corps left Xetic; this was discussed earlier in the thread. Some of these people are in D2. Some ex-Tribal Souls likely hate ASCN for squashing them like a bug. No clue where these people are now. Various locals in the south likely hate ASCN for their high-handed conduct, such as ignoring rules of engagement in ISS station systems. And that's just off the top of my head.
Jenna Shame	Posted - 2006.10.28 21:46:00 - [84] BE Translator: ASCN is a giant cash cow and we dont' want our very easy ganks to go away and be replaced by a strong alliance, please go save them. /dnrtt
matty01 No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.10.28 21:46:00 - [85] good read tbh
Karina Harington Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.28 21:51:00 - [86] Edited by: Karina Harington on 28/10/2006 21:50:51 Originally by: Butter Dog Then you are short sighted. ASCN are no threat to you. Meh, at least BoB bring a worthwhile fight. In the end, it's not our fault ASCN are fish in a barrel. With the numbers they have, they really should be able to put up a better fight.
NeoTech Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.28 21:57:00 - [87] Originally by: Dynast Edited by: Dynast on 28/10/2006 21:43:16 Originally by: NeoTech Edited by: NeoTech on 28/10/2006 21:08:08 Can someone explain why ASCN is so hated? It varies from party to party. ex-TRUST likely hate ASCN for helping BoB blob the hell out of their capital shipyards with (at peak) 600+ ships. These people are largely in D2 now. ex-Xetic likely hate ASCN for what went down when now-ASCN corps left Xetic; this was discussed earlier in the thread. Some of these people are in D2. Some ex-Tribal Souls likely hate ASCN for squashing them like a bug. No clue where these people are now. Various locals in the south likely hate ASCN for their high-handed conduct, such as ignoring rules of engagement in ISS station systems. And that's just off the top of my head. Thank You, cleared some of it up... however, these are only a few corps/alliances. But it seems that 50% of the people on this forum hates us. :) Also... what reason did BoB use to justify their attack on us? I have seen more than once that people says that we had roamed their space for months before the war started. Yet i recall that we were told to NOT attack BoB, even though they had roaming gangs in Paragon Soul against us? Its confusing. :) But its a great aspect of EvE, god i love this game!
SATAN BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.10.28 22:05:00 - [88] Originally by: Karina Harington Edited by: Karina Harington on 28/10/2006 21:50:51 Originally by: Butter Dog Then you are short sighted. ASCN are no threat to you. Meh, at least BoB bring a worthwhile fight. In the end, it's not our fault ASCN are fish in a barrel. With the numbers they have, they really should be able to put up a better fight. The fact is they are putting up a fight, last time I checked they are the only alliance ever at war with bob to last this long. Not to mention actualy take a station off BoB even if for a short time. I dont know if you were in IRON when BoB attacked your space, but it was not pretty, ended very fast with your alliance running south for the winter, and your closest ally disbanding. PS. BoB is the bandwagon and dont forget it, while their numbers are small compared to ASCN they are composed of hardened fighters many of which use to hate everything about BoB. But were basicly beat down by the bandwagon and forced on board. BoB will continue to take your strong fighters/leaders every time they come and take your region it is their favorite form of recruitment.
Devoras2 Amarr Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.28 22:13:00 - [89] Originally by: SATAN Originally by: Karina Harington Edited by: Karina Harington on 28/10/2006 21:50:51 Originally by: Butter Dog Then you are short sighted. ASCN are no threat to you. Meh, at least BoB bring a worthwhile fight. In the end, it's not our fault ASCN are fish in a barrel. With the numbers they have, they really should be able to put up a better fight. The fact is they are putting up a fight, last time I checked they are the only alliance ever at war with bob to last this long. Not to mention actualy take a station off BoB even if for a short time. I dont know if you were in IRON when BoB attacked your space, but it was not pretty, ended very fast with your alliance running south for the winter, and your closest ally disbanding. PS. BoB is the bandwagon and dont forget it, while their numbers are small compared to ASCN they are composed of hardened fighters many of which use to hate everything about BoB. But were basicly beat down by the bandwagon and forced on board. BoB will continue to take your strong fighters/leaders every time they come and take your region it is their favorite form of recruitment. This kinda gives me a creepy feeling from the Borg (Star Trek). You will be assimilated and added. If not you simply die and fade away. Dev It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Mankind mkII Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.28 22:14:00 - [90] Quote: The fact is they are putting up a fight, last time I checked they are the only alliance ever at war with bob to last this long. Not to mention actualy take a station off BoB even if for a short time. Hmmm ASCN did not take a BoB outpost ASCN did take a Xelas outpost.

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