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Petite Pierre
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.29 04:19:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Vanye Inovske
I kinda agree about the gang skill requirements being over the top, but to say that current gang structure isn't broken is just insane. Under the current system, it's impossible to have more than one person responsible for inviting new members, initiating gang warps, etc. For an incredibly simple example of what the new gang structure can do that the old one can't, suppose you have one cov ops in place as a warp anchor to warp in on an enemy fleet. Your force consists of three elements: a main group of sniper battleships, ecm and anti-frig support for those bs, and a group of inties controlling fighters from carriers parked in a safespot. Ideally, you'd warp in all three forces at the same time, but you'd warp them in at different distances. If you warp the entire fleet in at sniper ranges, the inties will waste valuable time mwding across 150+km space between the fleets till they can target enemy ships. If you warp in close enough for the inties, you're endangering the snipers. But at the moment, the only way you could do this would be to form separate gangs and have multiple cov ops in the anchor position. Frankly that's just silly. Plus half the fleet would lose command ship bonuses and such. Why shouldn't a fleet be able to do more complex group warps? Why shouldn't it be possible to delegate invitation duty to someone who isn't also responsible for moving the gang? Why shouldn't sub-groups within a fleet be able to warp to other fleet-members at will? Why shouldn't fleet command structure be able to span multiple systems? (So that, say, one wing can sweep along a route and then instantly and seamlessly merge with another wing at a destination system instead of having to disband one gang and invite its members to the other gang.) Any real military force uses far more flexible command and group structures. Sure, you can sort of replicate them using out of game tools, but the new system should be much more powerful.
Now, if you want to argue that it should still be possible to form arbitrarily large simple gangs with the current (lack of) functionality without any skills, and that the new leadership skill ranks should be toned down significantly, I could get behind that.
I'm sure we'll adapt. And i'm sure you will too.
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Shimarra
Caldari
AWE Corporation
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.29 04:52:00 -
[32]
I shall be brief on the subject of the so-called "gang" skills:
Nowhere in the description does it say "gang." Just squadron, wing, fleet.
I assume that players will have the option of forming into the standard mob-style gang, or train the skills to be able to segregate into specialized combat elements.
Shim
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"oooh, mercoxit..."
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Lygos
ISS Navy Task Force
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Posted - 2006.10.29 05:33:00 -
[33]
It might not be all that bad.
Maybe so few people will have capacitor half way through most battles that no-one will even bother with NOS anymore.
---
Private Investment should preceed Public Investment |
Xrak
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.29 06:24:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Shimarra
I shall be brief on the subject of the so-called "gang" skills:
Nowhere in the description does it say "gang." Just squadron, wing, fleet.
I assume that players will have the option of forming into the standard mob-style gang, or train the skills to be able to segregate into specialized combat elements.
If this is true (which I hope it is) then I take what I said back. Anyone able to confirm?
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MECTO
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Posted - 2006.10.29 06:53:00 -
[35]
new ships, exploration, new probe system etcetc = OK
hp changes, null/javelin torps nerfing, boost to extenders/plates = complete ruining the game 
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford
In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
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Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
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Posted - 2006.10.29 11:16:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Hellraiza666
i understand that not everyone plays the game like me...
To be honest this patch is adding lots to people who dont pvp...
Saying that proves you realy dont run missions a lot (You like to hear that, dont ya? )
Hp boost to NPC ships will probably make mission running very unattractive. Many high lvl missions take a long time even now to complete - with the same number of NPCs, but each having more HP - these missions will just take to long to complete to make sense to accept.
To balance this out the number of NPCs in the missions would need to be decreased and bounty on them increased.
Anyways, have not been on the testserver yet, so it is all speculation on my part.
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Hellraiza666
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.29 15:37:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Gonada
a nobody with an opinion , is still a nobody.
adapt or die.
ohh and to the above dude, buddy , paragraphs are your friend
the last time plates were boosted it made the game worse. I and im sure lots of others dont want to see plates and nos become the new i-win set up. And i definately dont want to go back to 400mm intys etc and bull****. Whats worse is the cruisers that can fit 1600mm is going to be really boosted, and ships like the deimos are going to suck. Deimos can't fit 1600mm plate with a decent set up. Guessing you dont pvp at all m8
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Hellraiza666
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.29 15:38:00 -
[38]
Originally by: MECTO
new ships, exploration, new probe system etcetc = OK
hp changes, null/javelin torps nerfing, boost to extenders/plates = complete ruining the game
exactly, cept for hyperion, the only new ship that sucks 
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Godar Marak
Amarr
Return Of Red Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.29 15:47:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Fuglife
Maybe im just crying about nothing but i really think alot of people will leave the game over this one....
I concur.
My impression of these new changes is that it seam to be very little thought through.
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\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/
Cant we all just get along? |
Hellraiza666
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.29 16:08:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Hellraiza666 on 29/10/2006 16:10:06
Linkage
A vid that puts the point accross , thnx to DS 
Some of it is good in kali, new BCs, new regions etc. and the member tracking. But the Hyperion suckage and the HP boost 4tl 
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.29 16:26:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Hellraiza666
Linkage
A vid that puts the point accross , thnx to DS
<3
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Taram Caldar
Caldari
Acheron Vanguard Armada
The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.10.29 16:51:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Soulita
Originally by: Hellraiza666
i understand that not everyone plays the game like me...
To be honest this patch is adding lots to people who dont pvp...
Saying that proves you realy dont run missions a lot (You like to hear that, dont ya? )
Hp boost to NPC ships will probably make mission running very unattractive. Many high lvl missions take a long time even now to complete - with the same number of NPCs, but each having more HP - these missions will just take to long to complete to make sense to accept.
Have to agree. I stopped doing missions already because they just take too damn long. The bigger Tier 3 and most of the tier 4 missions take for friggen ever. I can net a ton more cash in the same ammt of time ratting in 0.0 than I can doing a T3 or T4 mission, even when you take loot into consideration. Sure it's harder to get the 0.0 loot to market but it's far from impossible...
Now with the HP boost and OMFG the plate boost any mission npc's are going to be downright painful to take out. I do not envy new players one bit. Rats are going to be annoying as well. I see ammo costs going up significantly because while the repair speeds on the rats won't increase significantly (actually some of the bigger Gurista spawns with passive tanks are going to be a pain in the rear now with the bigger shields they'll be packing, thus higher passive regen).
No... PVE isn't getting it any better than the PVP crowd.... I personally don't like the HP increase at all. All it's going to do is slow everything down. And in a game that already takes inordinate ammts of time to accomplish anything that's a BAD thing, IMO.
As to the gang stuff? I don't really have a feel for it yet. I suspect that normal gangs will be available but I haven't had a chance to get on sisi to test yet.
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Hellraiza666
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.29 17:01:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Taram Caldar
Originally by: Soulita
Originally by: Hellraiza666
i understand that not everyone plays the game like me...
To be honest this patch is adding lots to people who dont pvp...
Saying that proves you realy dont run missions a lot (You like to hear that, dont ya? )
Hp boost to NPC ships will probably make mission running very unattractive. Many high lvl missions take a long time even now to complete - with the same number of NPCs, but each having more HP - these missions will just take to long to complete to make sense to accept.
Have to agree. I stopped doing missions already because they just take too damn long. The bigger Tier 3 and most of the tier 4 missions take for friggen ever. I can net a ton more cash in the same ammt of time ratting in 0.0 than I can doing a T3 or T4 mission, even when you take loot into consideration. Sure it's harder to get the 0.0 loot to market but it's far from impossible...
Now with the HP boost and OMFG the plate boost any mission npc's are going to be downright painful to take out. I do not envy new players one bit. Rats are going to be annoying as well. I see ammo costs going up significantly because while the repair speeds on the rats won't increase significantly (actually some of the bigger Gurista spawns with passive tanks are going to be a pain in the rear now with the bigger shields they'll be packing, thus higher passive regen).
No... PVE isn't getting it any better than the PVP crowd.... I personally don't like the HP increase at all. All it's going to do is slow everything down. And in a game that already takes inordinate ammts of time to accomplish anything that's a BAD thing, IMO.
As to the gang stuff? I don't really have a feel for it yet. I suspect that normal gangs will be available but I haven't had a chance to get on sisi to test yet.
Where does it say NPC are receiving a HP boost? I havent seen it stated by any dev anywhere yet.
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David Darkstar
Caldari
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.29 17:27:00 -
[44]
Yay, I'm in a Mitch-thread (tm)! Originally by: Hellraiza666
Right, so i take around a 3 week break from eve, have a life, get friends, have some fun with ladies and hang out with some drunk.
There, all better now.  Seriously, welcome back mate. Good to see you're still alive.
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Hellraiza666
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.29 17:30:00 -
[45]
Originally by: David Darkstar
Yay, I'm in a Mitch-thread (tm)! Originally by: Hellraiza666
Right, so i take around a 3 week break from eve, have a life, get friends, have some fun with ladies and hang out with some drunk.
There, all better now. Seriously, welcome back mate. Good to see you're still alive.
This 3 week break was while i was in regen haha, ages ago lol. Before i joined rkk :P
and haha, ok i have no friends and i hang out with drunks who dont know me 
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Kim Chee
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.29 18:03:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Hellraiza666
have some fun with ladies
Yup, ok.... credibility == 0.0 now... onward!
Originally by: Hellraiza666
-New Map - Waste of time, why attempt to fix something that isn't broke?
I'm floating in a pod with an advanced computer system feeding me direct neural stimulus... and I can't keep the map open to browse while jumping? Sounds broken to me.
I'm rather looking forward to having some map data visible WHILE flying.
Gang skills.... mmrf. Yeah, that's silly. At least until we get formation flying and real multi-layer gang structures. Then it will make sense... don't want n00bs being fleet captains, do we?
<=----=>
Vila Restal: I'm entitled to my opinion.
Kerr Avon: It is your assumption that we are entitled to it as well that is irritating.
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Cygnet Lythanea
Ninjitsu Heavy Industries
Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.29 18:39:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Hellraiza666
To be honest this patch is adding lots to people who dont pvp. Better tanks to npc with etc. But for pvp its going to ruin it in many ways. However, if you care to explain why you feel kali will be for the better please do, im hoping to read some others opinions on the matter
I have one very good reason. PvP have gotten boosts in almost everyy previous patch, etc. For once, the non-PvPers are getting some love. And, if you're worried about them nerfing PvP, remember.... WCS were nerfed. (And, thusly, so is Ginger Magician!) So that running away is much harder. All those people who would normallly run away will have to stay, and fight... probably.
She's hunting you, pirate scum...
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Godar Marak
Amarr
Return Of Red Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.29 18:53:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Hellraiza666
Edited by: Hellraiza666 on 29/10/2006 16:10:06
Linkage
A vid that puts the point accross , thnx to DS
Some of it is good in kali, new BCs, new regions etc. and the member tracking. But the Hyperion suckage and the HP boost 4tl
Possibly the funniest thing I have seen posted in a long long time
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Cant we all just get along? |
Gothikia
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.29 19:26:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Hellraiza♥♥♥
have some fun with ladies
teee heee heee *blush* was fun
And yeah, i totally agree with everything in your post, except the map bit, think thats for new scanning and probes and stuff. 50% hp boost to t1 ships, far too big. If you gonna give us extra HP CCP, give us better cap's to fight with.
Your catering far too much to the money grabbers and carebears here and killing off solo pvp. But then you kinda done that with RMR now didn't you.... 
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Hellraiza666
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.29 20:43:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Gothikia
Originally by: Hellraiza♥♥♥
have some fun with ladies
teee heee heee *blush* was fun
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar
LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2006.10.29 20:48:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Hellraiza666
Linkage
A vid that puts the point accross , thnx to DS
<3
ROFL.. I think CCP have a track record of not getting something right.. and from them screenshots.. I think it's time to fire the female sexual body part who came up with em.
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SoonÖ Copyright CCP.
I don't pay money to play this game, I pay to see how badly CCP screw it up. |
Stratharn
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Posted - 2006.10.29 21:42:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Stratharn on 29/10/2006 21:42:53
Quote:
. I stopped doing missions already because they just take too damn long. The bigger Tier 3 and most of the tier 4 missions take for friggen ever.
Tell me about it.
I tend to solo a lot, and L4's just take too long.
The only L3 I've had time issues with is Gurista Extravaganza, which takes me about 40 minutes in a BC. I don't get to play for long stretches, unfortunately, as RealLife(tm) interferes.
It would be just fine if missions didn't respawn every downtime. I don't mind missing my bonus so much, but I do like to be able to complete a mission before it expires.
Still... it just means that I have to adjust my play style and turn down some missions mid week.
Rob
Eve Screensaver
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Yumi Katanawe
Caldari
Demon Womb
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Posted - 2006.10.29 21:49:00 -
[53]
There will be MONTHS of balance work ahead with the hp changes. Such sweeping balance changes usually bring up unforeseen consecuences (sp?).
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wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
Praxiteles Inc.
E N I G M A
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Posted - 2006.10.29 22:02:00 -
[54]
i tested most of changes
and results are
that gal ships are nefred like hell i dont see point why to use t2 blaster ammo tbh
so deimos - worst hac well not deimos is bad in kali its gona suck soooo hard
no hit points, no cap and crapy dmg its easy worst hac
tbh all gal blaster ships suck more or less now
mega need plates to fight anythink now and at least 2 ...
great and that just puts on your ass : gang me
Hyperion - wtf ? only good think on that ship will be tanking but with all those changes for tanking u will need dual reps + min 1 plate so we have great tank with no dmg
tbh i dont see why we need more gimped mega
wait better wud be to have damper bs ....
but all non guns related ships has realy big boost
raven and domi easy most overpowered ships
nos = i win eve more
all those skills = dumb
in end we will get totaly unbalanced game only with ganging and totaly killed solo pvp ...
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Drutort
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.29 22:32:00 -
[55]
why do people say solo pvp dead? all it means is you have to find a new fit... and it means that now it takes longer time to pvp solo
saying its dead is just stupid.. and dont say the crap about oh well it takes longer so the buddies will come... how does that change from now? if he has buddies waiting on other side then its simple... you would die today in your ship just faster then in kali which would just take longer
people just cant think ahead in different fits then they do today... that is all thats why you see all these whine threads... they are just soo happy and fixed on there current fit and way... that they think anything that will change is going to destroy the game some how
the past has shown otherwise... no the world isnt coming to an end (in eve)
the changes are not yet set, and they wont be even when kali hits... so if people would present valid and justified results that should be looked at and tweaked maybe the dev's would get the right patchs or more balanced changes out, instead of just getting peoples opinions that are of little to no aid to the solution.
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Xori Ruscuv
1911 ftw
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Posted - 2006.10.29 23:02:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 29/10/2006 23:06:18
Agreed, Hellraiza.
Plate and extender HP increase sucks for reasons already mentioned. Additionally, plate HP increase is an indirect nerf to the agility of blaster ships. 3 of the 4 new Battleships don't fit their roles like they ought to. The drake is overpowered, the myrmidon sucks. I'm training minmatar so that I can get into a hurricane because the HP changes are an indirect nerf to short range/high cap use gunships (which is why I like Gallente in the first place).
EDIT: I hate the cloak/scanner/probe changes. Mostly because I just had a major surgery on my colon - so when I have to go, I have to go ***NOW***. Right now it is really nice to be able to warp to SS and cloak. Aside from that though, I don't see why this change is needed. I am glad that scanning will now work on a sphere rather than a cylinder though.
EDIT 2: Unfortunately for my rhetoric, I will adapt, as will most people. I will miss the "old days". I'll continue to bet that plates and extenders get re-nerfed. I'll train minmatar so that I can have my short range gankships. I will miss blasters however :(
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Xori Ruscuv
1911 ftw
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Posted - 2006.10.29 23:12:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 29/10/2006 23:12:07
Originally by: Drutort
why do people say solo pvp dead? all it means is you have to find a new fit... and it means that now it takes longer time to pvp solo
For high cap use gunships, soloing will be very difficult, if not impossible. ESPECIALLY against ships that traditionally pack NOS - drone ships, missile ships...
I guess we'll all just have to train caldari huh?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Hellraiza666
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.30 00:30:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Hellraiza666 on 30/10/2006 00:30:27
Originally by: Drutort
people just cant think ahead in different fits then they do today... that is all thats why you see all these whine threads... they are just soo happy and fixed on there current fit and way... that they think anything that will change is going to destroy the game some how
Im afraid it is YOU who isnt thinking ahead. The proposed HP boost and plate boost is going to be murder for blasterboats and amarr laser ships that are cap hungry. We are going to have to get through more armor, whilst having to tank more damage(due to it taking longer to kill) with the same amount of cap. Its hard to do it atm in a blasterthron, nevermind having to get through 5k + more frigging armor.
So next time, don't be an ass. Read the full thread, and instead YOU should think of all the consequences ahead.
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Lord Frost
Minmatar
The Crystal Method
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Posted - 2006.10.30 00:54:00 -
[59]
I feel instead of the most simple and obvious fixes to issues people have whined about for the last year... CCP decided to take the long hard road with bigger and more improvements in a way that makes adding this stuff seem like its fixing the old issues. Instead of admiting they were wrong and made bad choices, they ADD more to counter their bad choices. They whole t2 bpo lottery sucks, and yet nothing is being done, but all of Kali's improvements should help lower the prices, but it still doesn't fix the t2 bpo problem! 20 people... 20 people have these bpos and they are worried about whines from 20 people that they can't make uber wealth anymore... release more damn t2 bpos!!! simple fix!
Thats just one scenario... lag is bad, so they make a gang skill? I'm siding with op on this. CCPs decisions boil down to more more more to make us train train train... and in the end, we play longer... but the fixes only bought them more time.
Rigs seem great... but once again its a whole new job... new parts and elements to build them... making more more more and yet more skills to eventually boost us more for even more uber ships. One day, someone will figure out a uber combination and pass on the setup, and we'll all be doing it.
Bottom line... Kali is bigger, it'll makes us play longer, but it seems its bringing more troubles than simple fixes.
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Drutort
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.30 07:07:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Hellraiza666
Edited by: Hellraiza666 on 30/10/2006 00:30:27
Originally by: Drutort
people just cant think ahead in different fits then they do today... that is all thats why you see all these whine threads... they are just soo happy and fixed on there current fit and way... that they think anything that will change is going to destroy the game some how
Im afraid it is YOU who isnt thinking ahead. The proposed HP boost and plate boost is going to be murder for blasterboats and amarr laser ships that are cap hungry. We are going to have to get through more armor, whilst having to tank more damage(due to it taking longer to kill) with the same amount of cap. Its hard to do it atm in a blasterthron, nevermind having to get through 5k + more frigging armor.
So next time, don't be an ass. Read the full thread, and instead YOU should think of all the consequences ahead.
im sorry to say it but your wrong... you can always fit less dmg guns or use different ammo to reduce cap usage and of course you get less dps but you have options for fit... with passive tanks... all it means is that you have to take longer time... if you can tank there dmg you will kill them regardless because it only takes time to kill there hp, while if you have maybe active tank they have to be able to get past your tanking ability...
and your arguing as if the changes are made final, instead of saying that these changes suck you should push more forward with the need of tweaking for this then disregarding the whole hp change all together... focus on the problem, in which case you are not you are attacking the over all change which is a good thing for prolonging battles
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