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Gothikia
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.30 08:36:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Drutort
Originally by: Hellraiza666 Edited by: Hellraiza666 on 30/10/2006 00:30:27
Originally by: Drutort
people just cant think ahead in different fits then they do today... that is all thats why you see all these whine threads... they are just soo happy and fixed on there current fit and way... that they think anything that will change is going to destroy the game some how 
Im afraid it is YOU who isnt thinking ahead. The proposed HP boost and plate boost is going to be murder for blasterboats and amarr laser ships that are cap hungry. We are going to have to get through more armor, whilst having to tank more damage(due to it taking longer to kill) with the same amount of cap. Its hard to do it atm in a blasterthron, nevermind having to get through 5k + more frigging armor.
So next time, don't be an ass. Read the full thread, and instead YOU should think of all the consequences ahead.
im sorry to say it but your wrong... you can always fit less dmg guns or use different ammo to reduce cap usage and of course you get less dps but you have options for fit... with passive tanks... all it means is that you have to take longer time... if you can tank there dmg you will kill them regardless because it only takes time to kill there hp, while if you have maybe active tank they have to be able to get past your tanking ability...
and your arguing as if the changes are made final, instead of saying that these changes suck you should push more forward with the need of tweaking for this then disregarding the whole hp change all together... focus on the problem, in which case you are not you are attacking the over all change which is a good thing for prolonging battles
Well dude, longer battles yeah, is a good thing. However its how it is being doing that sucks. If you do a 1v1 in a megathron with these new changes, your gonna run out of cap whilst firing and tanking at the same time, WITH cap booster charges. If by some miracle you fit more cap booster charges than your enemy, or have 1 extra nos on him, then maybe you can start to pick him off. However, with Kali, its gonna be a fight of the caps. The capactior capacity needs increased if Tux expects us to be able to hold out in a fight. Stuff he's done is gonna kill solo pvp...
* Gothikia wishes TomB still had the nerfbat, at least he didn't break EVE with it...
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MOS DEF
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.10.30 09:32:00 -
[62]
Totally agree with the OP. The worst of all chages is the extender/plate boost tho IMO. It basically splits PvP up into ships that can us em and ships that are gonna suck. It's a slap i the fac for the gallente repper efficiency ships because that bonus is even more of a joke then it was before. Takes 12 activations of a medium repper with that bonus to make up for a plate while totally anihilating your cap. Combine that with blaster cap use and you are out of cap damn soon but thanks god you'll be dead before that anyways since you don'z have the 10k+ armor buffer the rest is using!
To balance this out a lil you made Null worthless to make sure we get the point and stop using those stupid blaster ships!
Amarrians are used to being neglected and suffer but ofc they don't get a boost either. They at least can fit the plates but long fights + amarr cap use will be a pain too. If you have a look at the abaddon prepare yourself for a good laugh. A heavy cap injector can't keep up with it's guns cap usage - and thatr's without any reppers running. 
You want to have longer lasting combat? Great, i am with you. Next time try to think about the consequences of your changes though. Just upping the numbers on some modules doesn't really make you look like a balance genius!
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QwaarJet
Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.30 09:47:00 -
[63]
I agree with the topic creator about fleet battles. It just seems CCP are introducing a new gang structure just to make fleet battles happen less, andwith smaller amounts, instead of actually dealing with the heart of the problem.
Changes like that will basically mean taking territory from an alliance completely impossible. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimter Of Wisdom.Run!" |

Gothikia
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.30 10:47:00 -
[64]
Originally by: QwaarJet I agree with the topic creator about fleet battles. It just seems CCP are introducing a new gang structure just to make fleet battles happen less, andwith smaller amounts, instead of actually dealing with the heart of the problem.
Changes like that will basically mean taking territory from an alliance completely impossible.
well they ****** up on the architecture of EVE a way back so that it basically dies if we all try to have a decent fight, now they're nerfing our fun by cutting down gangs ect. Tbh, im getting really fed up with all this crap. Kali was suppost to be the savior, why do i get the feeling that the sub numbers are gonna go down after having to deal with it for a few months...?
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Juan Andalusian
TAOSP Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.30 11:14:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Hellraiza666 -Null nerf - Ok maybe this did need nerfing, but at the most all it needed was a little taken off the range bonus. No need to render it useless.
Is barrage, which is technically exactly the same type of ammo bonus/penalty wise, also getting a similar nerf?
**Pain is meant to be felt** |

Christopher Multsanti
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.10.30 11:25:00 -
[66]
The HP, extender and plate boost concerns me the most with the patch.
I agree that combat should be extended as much as is resonable, but it seems that this is going to be implemented for fleet battles, without considering small scale PVP.
Reduce cap use on guns or slightly decrease the boost to HP, tbh I am so glad i am not a zealot pilot ater the patch, in a 1v1, one nos and your dead, even no nos on your opponent and you are going to have trouble killing him.
[ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!] |

Bermag
Point-Zero Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.30 11:40:00 -
[67]
It might be a bit early to say what the results will be with increased HP. There might still be tweaks done to cap size etc.
Also we have not fully tried out what the new stuff might do to combat. Riggs which increase cap size/faster recharge might offset some of the problems for example.
What I don't understand is why not just add a damage decrease when doing pvp. Results would probably be the same (and some of the problems as well) but it would not change balance (ie which modules we will be using) as much as increasing HP on ships/plates/extenders. And it would not affect pve.
I really think it is time for a dev blog to straighten out our questions.
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Hellraiza666
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.30 12:11:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Drutort
im sorry to say it but your wrong... you can always fit less dmg guns or use different ammo to reduce cap usage and of course you get less dps but you have options for fit... with passive tanks... all it means is that you have to take longer time... if you can tank there dmg you will kill them regardless because it only takes time to kill there hp, while if you have maybe active tank they have to be able to get past your tanking ability...
and your arguing as if the changes are made final, instead of saying that these changes suck you should push more forward with the need of tweaking for this then disregarding the whole hp change all together... focus on the problem, in which case you are not you are attacking the over all change which is a good thing for prolonging battles
Someones obviously never flown a blasterthron or geddon in pvp 
With cap becoming such an issue, its going to mean the nosadom is even better than it already is. While the blasterthron wont be able to fire its guns. You say use diff ammo to reduce cap... have you never tried blasters? your cap will run out no matter what ammo you use.
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Amira Silvermist
Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2006.10.30 13:19:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Hellraiza666
and haha, ok i have no friends and i hang out with drunks who dont know me 
Its not that bad as long as the drunks are female... 
About the ganking topic: People gank whenever they can so 50% more hp wont change anything. 
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MECTO
Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.10.30 13:55:00 -
[70]
Edited by: MECTO on 30/10/2006 13:57:11 i love new changes, not all but: new probes, map, new ships [except amarr,matari,gallente BS] invention and many others!
And i still can't figure out why we need 50% hp incr. - this is ******* up the balance guys 
edit: myrmidon useless 
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
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Centurin
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2006.10.30 14:45:00 -
[71]
I think the whole point of Kali is to reduce lag. By ****ing everyone off and causing them to leave, thereby reducing lag. Yay!  ----------------------------------------------- "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime |

Syrann
Caldari The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.30 14:49:00 -
[72]
Map was changed for to facilitate system scanning.
Plate/Extender boosts are neccessary to maintain Pre-Kali ratios. If an extender added 10% before, it adds 10% now, which means recharge rates are retained, and you don't get a nerf to passive shield tanks. Plates are just as effective as they were before, if you want them to stay as they were then you're asking for a Plate nerf.
The only thing that the HP change does is nerf damage.
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Gothikia
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.30 14:54:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Syrann The only thing that the HP change does is nerf damage.
No if it nerfed damage, then we'd be taking a ammo hit, which would seem like the SANE THING TO DO, but since tux is just too much of a lazy bastard, hes decided to nerf EVE itself.
And as another poster said in this thread, their plan to reduce lag is make everyone really ****ed off and leave, well they might just well succeed in that plan. 
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Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.10.30 14:57:00 -
[74]
BOB's arent realy human devs was way out of their league. 
Quote: All I can say to this is that it's a good thing BOB aren't really devs.
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Syrann
Caldari The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.30 15:43:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Gothikia
Originally by: Syrann The only thing that the HP change does is nerf damage.
No if it nerfed damage, then we'd be taking a ammo hit, which would seem like the SANE THING TO DO, but since tux is just too much of a lazy bastard, hes decided to nerf EVE itself.
And as another poster said in this thread, their plan to reduce lag is make everyone really ****ed off and leave, well they might just well succeed in that plan. 
I doubt the people complaining the loudest about the changes have any intention of leaving. I also doubt the people that are waiting for Kali to release are hovering over the cancel button. To argue from that standpoint is foolish.
Nerfing ammo to do less damage and boosting HP are essentially the same thing. If you can't see that then I'm really not sure how to explain it. Suffice to say, nerfing ammo has all of the same problems that boosting HP will have, and then some. By keeping DPS the same, and keeping armor/shield repair & passive recharge the same they've ensured that the same setups will defeat the same tanks, it will just take longer.
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Earthan
Gallente GREY COUNCIL
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Posted - 2006.10.30 16:10:00 -
[76]
Well im looking forward to these changes.
More hp, longer battles, finbally you will ahve time to think abit , maybe use other tactics then reflex focusing fire.
Solo fight problems out of cap..Well maybe need some more balancing, havent seen it , cant say.
t2 ammo nerf is great news to me, no fight imho should be at more range then 100 km ideally, then cruisers and intercpetors are so much more important, then each fight gets much more bloody , much harder to snipe and run.
boost to plates-- no idea, i will have to see in life.
ecmnerf -- dont knwo details but imho it needed a slight nerf - A knight in space,war veteran,Grey Council military officer. Grey Council webpage
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MECTO
Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.10.30 16:23:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Earthan t2 ammo nerf is great news to me, no fight imho should be at more range then 100 km ideally, then cruisers and intercpetors are so much more important, then each fight gets much more bloody , much harder to snipe and run.
this nerf is illusion, theres rigs/boosters introducing that add optimal into the same state as before. 
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
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Earthan
Gallente GREY COUNCIL
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Posted - 2006.10.30 16:51:00 -
[78]
Originally by: MECTO
Originally by: Earthan t2 ammo nerf is great news to me, no fight imho should be at more range then 100 km ideally, then cruisers and intercpetors are so much more important, then each fight gets much more bloody , much harder to snipe and run.
this nerf is illusion, theres rigs/boosters introducing that add optimal into the same state as before. 
ohh that sucks:( If true it will eb even worse then , only reakly really rich snipers and all rest dying patheticlly:(
Also i would only nerf t2 long range ammo , not close range more dmg one. - A knight in space,war veteran,Grey Council military officer. Grey Council webpage
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Drutort
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.30 18:32:00 -
[79]
Nerfing dmg only without giving hp boost does not work. Simply because of concentrated fireā all it would mean is say you need X amount of more Y type ship to kill this ship at the same rateā THUS you need an over all HP boost, to give more BUFFER, otherwise concentrated fleet battles would be exactly the same as they are now even if the dmg is nerfed. I would agree that some balance between nerfed dmg and boosted HP might be a good solution.
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Drutort
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.30 18:36:00 -
[80]
another type of solution could be to add mass or agility penalty to say long range guns vs close range gunsā that way close range guns can mwed just fine to the target, while long range guns should make your ship a lot less agile. But this complicates things, if you think about it it some what makes senseā smaller shorter guns for up close fast shooting would be a lot less in volume/mass then long artillery type of guns.
Nosf could get a nerf too or other types of weapons on similar principleā though I have no clue for missiles
Pretty much it should be that what type of weapon/item you have fitted dictates how your ship will behave/maneuver
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Cosmic Flame
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Posted - 2006.10.30 19:25:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Fuujin No offence to the Op but i'm glad you're not in any position of power over at CCPHQ
Another one who's never pvp'd..  |

Mr Fringle
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Posted - 2006.10.30 19:59:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Hellraiza666 Edited by: Hellraiza666 on 28/10/2006 23:14:55 Right, so i take around a 3 week break from eve, have some real life fun, get drunk, have some fun with ladies and hang out with some friends. I come back and join the corp Reikoku. Straight away war vs ASCN. I feel happy, finally lots of targets, lots of chances to kill. First day of war and loads of fun fights and so and so.
Then i see the new features and edited features coming in Kali. I see a stab nerf, i think to myself thats great. More Hp, great. But the more i look at threads and the more i go on test server and the more i look at the new features the worse and worse i feel kali will be to eve.
Some of the pointers i feel should be totally scrapped : - HP boost - reason being is that it will just promote more ganking, and in solo pvp blaster ships and cap struggling ships will fail. Nos and ecm will prevail yay .
-New Map - Waste of time, why attempt to fix something that isn't broke?
-The new gang system and skills - Yes, great make us train even more skills just to play with our friends. You can't fix the lag so instead you nerf gangs and make us have to train a rank 8 skill and a rank 12 just to have fleet fights. Again, gang system is fine, why attempt to fix something THAT ISN'T BROKE.
-Null nerf - Ok maybe this did need nerfing, but at the most all it needed was a little taken off the range bonus. No need to render it useless.
- Hyperion - W00t, a blasterthron that got no trackin bonus, along with the tracking nerf on t2 blaster ammo. Way to create a useless ship. If anything it going to be used more as a railboat, Exactly the opposite to what you wanted.
-Rigs - WTF is the point, instead of creating new ships etc instead you try another way to make ships we got even more uber, the rich are going to get even better ships and noobs will be left far far behind.
- Boost to plates - And so, we are going to go back to the times of everything wearing plates. 400mm Ceptors, 1600mm Cruisers. Ahhh great times not. I can live with the HP boost, but the boost to plates just going to promote fitting oversized plates and sheild extenders.
I suppose there are some good things with kali, i feel that the tier BCs are awesome. And the tier 3 BS look awesome (cept for hyperion)
Now, these are my personal opinions, but i know of many who think the same as me, and disagree with many of these nerfs or so called "new features". If you disagree with me, give me your reasoning please.
Firstly the new gang skills you are on about, I disagree with you, it means more organisation will be needed, as 1 big fleet will most probably be not there, more of multiple wings. Commanders can ask wing 1 to do something and wing 2 to do something different...
The new map isnt a fix for the old one, its an improvement, same with your "gotta train these skills to have fleet fights" remark.
Null nerf...barrage is getting this too. Null still has its role, it just wont be able to pwn cruisers @ 15KM. Blasters should only be able to track the target when webbed, simple as.
Hyperion has more tank than mega too, but not sure about that so thats all I will add.
"Nos and ECM will previal" - The chances of ECM being used successfully have been reduced by half, unless the person wants to reduce tank. NOS well, with the new HP I actually hope to see more people using firepower and not NOS.
Rigs - Some of these may be in need of a balance, but about 90% of em gimp your ship in some way. It means your ship will be able to be fit how YOU fly it, rather than the best setups being dictated on the eve forums. I feel CCP are introducing a very innovative feature into the game. How to get hold of rigs is another question.
I do agree the HP and plate/extender boost is a bit too much though. Next patch, passively resisted/natural high resist ships are gunna be too good.
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Gothikia
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.31 05:37:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Syrann
Originally by: Gothikia
Originally by: Syrann The only thing that the HP change does is nerf damage.
No if it nerfed damage, then we'd be taking a ammo hit, which would seem like the SANE THING TO DO, but since tux is just too much of a lazy bastard, hes decided to nerf EVE itself.
And as another poster said in this thread, their plan to reduce lag is make everyone really ****ed off and leave, well they might just well succeed in that plan. 
I doubt the people complaining the loudest about the changes have any intention of leaving. I also doubt the people that are waiting for Kali to release are hovering over the cancel button. To argue from that standpoint is foolish.
Nerfing ammo to do less damage and boosting HP are essentially the same thing. If you can't see that then I'm really not sure how to explain it. Suffice to say, nerfing ammo has all of the same problems that boosting HP will have, and then some. By keeping DPS the same, and keeping armor/shield repair & passive recharge the same they've ensured that the same setups will defeat the same tanks, it will just take longer.
All that would be needed would be a MINOR ammo nerf across ALL ammo. Not 50 FRAKKING PER CENT, so as you can see, duh, that wouldn't have the same effect as a 50% hp boost.
As for the leaving stuff, quite alot of the old players and TRUE PVP'ERS not MONEY GRABBING MISSION RUNNING CAREBEARS, will be considering it after a few months, cos for us, its gonna be another big hit for those who like to solo pvp. Kali is only gonna force more ganksquads. EVE is loosing its style, its glory, and CCP is losing its balls. Best way I can put it tbh...
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Godar Marak
Amarr Return Of Red Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.31 05:40:00 -
[84]
CCP why do you introduce rigs? Cant you just admit stacking nerf was a horrible idea and reverse it?
Id rather choose between full gank or full gank setup than some horrible halfass setup. -------------------- \0/\0/\0/\0/\0/ Cant we all just get along? |

Godar Marak
Amarr Return Of Red Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.31 05:44:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Drutort why do people say solo pvp dead? all it means is you have to find a new fit.
You cant fit more than 3x damage mods, your choices are highly limited.....and boring. -------------------- \0/\0/\0/\0/\0/ Cant we all just get along? |

Earthan
Gallente GREY COUNCIL
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Posted - 2006.10.31 07:20:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Gothikia
Originally by: Syrann
Originally by: Gothikia
Originally by: Syrann The only thing that the HP change does is nerf damage.
No if it nerfed damage, then we'd be taking a ammo hit, which would seem like the SANE THING TO DO, but since tux is just too much of a lazy bastard, hes decided to nerf EVE itself.
And as another poster said in this thread, their plan to reduce lag is make everyone really ****ed off and leave, well they might just well succeed in that plan. 
I doubt the people complaining the loudest about the changes have any intention of leaving. I also doubt the people that are waiting for Kali to release are hovering over the cancel button. To argue from that standpoint is foolish.
Nerfing ammo to do less damage and boosting HP are essentially the same thing. If you can't see that then I'm really not sure how to explain it. Suffice to say, nerfing ammo has all of the same problems that boosting HP will have, and then some. By keeping DPS the same, and keeping armor/shield repair & passive recharge the same they've ensured that the same setups will defeat the same tanks, it will just take longer.
All that would be needed would be a MINOR ammo nerf across ALL ammo. Not 50 FRAKKING PER CENT, so as you can see, duh, that wouldn't have the same effect as a 50% hp boost.
As for the leaving stuff, quite alot of the old players and TRUE PVP'ERS not MONEY GRABBING MISSION RUNNING CAREBEARS, will be considering it after a few months, cos for us, its gonna be another big hit for those who like to solo pvp. Kali is only gonna force more ganksquads. EVE is loosing its style, its glory, and CCP is losing its balls. Best way I can put it tbh...
Imho you are pathetic with your capitals and writig about "TRUE PVP'ERS not MONEY GRABBING MISSION RUNNING CAREBEARS".I wonder how you make isk?IT falls on you from the sky?And dont tell me you get all your isk from pvp cause even best ones dont achieve it.Aslo best loot is from pirate killing neutral haulers, i dont see it very glorious.More liek imho disgusting.One thing is fighting an armed prepared opponent, another ganking neutrals, wich is the way most "so-meanpvpers-pirates" make most of their pvp isk.And no it doesnt make you tough and man in my eyes and in anyone other eyes who can think, not wanting on,ly to feel superior to others.
Even if solo pvp will be hard cause of thewse changes and will enforce squads i am looking forward to it cause in those squads when you fight it will last long you will have time to think no just instinct focus fire.Use some other tactics,cal for reinforcement etc.I hope it will be abit mor elike in past without most of the bad features that were in past.
- A knight in space,war veteran,Grey Council military officer. Grey Council webpage
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Rachel Karrde
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Posted - 2006.10.31 11:54:00 -
[87]
Why dont we all not just lean back and wait untill Kali is released and running ?
Why dont we just try it out...give it a chance ?
Im sure it will change things ... omg we will have to find new setups for our sweet lil ships.... pvp will change... so on so forth.
I dont know if Kali will change Eve for the good or the bad untill i have tried kali out on TQ with my corpmates and our enemies. Maybe it will suck....but what if not ?
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Hellraiza666
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.31 16:37:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Centurin I think the whole point of Kali is to reduce lag. By ****ing everyone off and causing them to leave, thereby reducing lag. Yay! 
lol. Maybe 
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uraniumcore1
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.31 23:18:00 -
[89]
Edited by: uraniumcore1 on 31/10/2006 23:18:11
Originally by: MECTO new ships, exploration, new probe system etcetc = OK
hp changes, null/javelin torps nerfing, boost to extenders/plates = complete ruining the game 
amen...u r on target!!!!!!!!!!! Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes |

Gothikia
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.01 05:17:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Earthan
Imho you are pathetic with your capitals
lol, **** you and suck on it. Couldn't be arsed making them bold, so i thought that i would emphasize it another way instead.
Now, onto your reply... I have many different sources of income ofc, none of which are any of your concern. Suffice to say i've made some good investments over the years in EVE and they pay out rather well. I dont think 7 Billion in the old wallet is any sort of monetary concern for me and allows me to maintain the sort of game play I like in EVE.
And whilst you might herald in a new solid era of guaranteed ganksquads and no more solo fights, which tbh, is a really fun part, I am detesting it. Just shows how quickly a game can really change with the addition of a bunch of people who dont have the balls to fight solo, and the sick part is that CCP is cementing that.
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