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Afrigael Hax
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.04.14 03:02:13 -
[1] - Quote
Ok so lets get something straight from the start .. I'm a 'casual' player who has never read anything on the forum before today and quite frankly I'm shocked at the complete lack of understanding and empathy shown by you guys, the 'real' players of eve. This is probably the 4th time I've returned to eve and about 2 weeks ago I had that 'moment of enlightenment' that completely changed my perceptions of the game. At the minute I'm in the position that I can see the game from the point of view of new and casual players and from that of the 'real' players.
Casual player = someone who literally can't play the game to their own schedule but that dictated by their real life .. in my case I'm lucky if I get to play for a few hours late in the evening when my kids are in bed and my wife is watching some stupid film about mermaids or whatever.
When I came back into the game I used my old main character and whizzed through all the starter/career tutorials twice (in 2 factions) and it all made perfect sense ... because I already understood what the tutorials were talking about.
I found the tutorials section quite entertaining, although needing reorganisation of the order of the missions.
So then I went and started my new main toon and attempted to do the tutorials again (basically for the ships and I'd never done them from the Amarr faction ever before). It was without doubt one of the most infuriating experiences I've ever encountered in playing MMOs over the last 20 years. 5 minutes into it I was expected to wait for 3-4 hours for basic skills to be added to my character ..WTF?
And so the tutorials stutter along for about 2 days... my opinion of the skill system in eve is that it is a thing of beauty, BUT it doesn't work at the beginning of the game.
So I have at least 5 or 6 real life casual-gamer friends who should be lifelong fans of eve and they all refuse to play this game ... so I decided to find out what makes casual gamers avoid committing to this game and how other 'enlightened' players still playing got over the 'hazing' period at the start. I didn't ask very many people ..about 10 in game and a dozen or so outside of the game... after digging and digging and digging to find the real truth ...
Casual players will not play eve because "there's no way I'm paying for a game where I have to wait for 2 years before I can start playing the game properly, that's just ridiculous".
When I first logged in again to my account my eye was immediately drawn to the 'character remap' service .. I actually said out loud 'thank god someone at CCP has finally had the common sense to let us new players sort out our ****'. I may have actually peed a little in excitement. Imagine my disappointment to discover I could change my hairstyle.
Total time I've played the game is around 6months or slightly more (15million skillpoints). So I asked the 'real' players how long was it for them before they had that moment of 'enlightenment' and could see how amazing the game actually is and therefore not give a **** anymore about the constant delays in character development.
Most said "oh a couple of days and then I just got it", but when pushed actually admit
'well maybe around the 3 to 4 month mark, maybe a bit longer before I really understood what I was doing".
And the general attitude to newbies from you guys is
"**** you! I had to go through it why should you be let off, there's nothing wrong with the skill system".
Actually there is a problem if it stops casual players from joining the game or frustrates them enough to overwhelm their initial curiosity.
Casual players are the lifeblood of any MMO game, we're the smallfolk who run around like headless chickens, getting blown up, buying expensive and often useless cosmetic **** and generally being exploited by the 'real' players. For every 1 of you there should be at least 10 of me and in a game of this calibre there should be hundreds of us for each 1 of you. We play a game until it bores or frustrates us... we don't have time or patience for being 'dicked around' by bad game design. I played World of KungFuPandaland for 12 years.
I'm sure there are many possible solutions to the 'skill gap perception problem' of new players, I can think of 3 straight off the top of my head ..
1. rookie-learning implants for 6 months or less (that are replaced when lost like the rookie ships).
2. background skillsets dependant on the character background that enable a 6 month toon to do something reasonably competently (doesn't mean the player will be competent though).
3. character skill remap service (which will bring more real money into the game which is good for any MMO business, more money = better wages=happier staff=better service to you and longevity for the game).
As a casual gamer I would never pay for a second account on any game no matter how much I loved it, however if some kind of 'light at the end of the tunnel' was introduced for new characters, I would definitely consider starting a second and possibly third alt character doing simultaneous learning regimes. Yet again more money into the game etc.
You see its not about what is actually going on but what the rookie perceives to be going on in the beginner game.
The beginner game is always going to be harsh in eve .. I got blown up at a gatecamp in the first hour of playing, its just the nature of the game and its actually exciting. At the minute Eve is the 'Firefly' of MMO games and the end of season 1 is in sight. 45k players at peak time that's scandalous, there should be millions playing this game. It's all very well being the nerdy kid in the corner with all the awards, but MMO games need players or they just wither and die, dwindling in a strange sad way. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who remembers some game fondly that's not around anymore and the game-friends they lost touch with.
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
21126
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Posted - 2015.04.14 03:18:15 -
[2] - Quote
Afrigael Hax wrote: I played World of KungFuPandaland for 12 years.
Found your hangup. Eve =/= WoW.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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SIrera Artrald
Titans Rising
59
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Posted - 2015.04.14 03:42:46 -
[3] - Quote
Afrigael Hax wrote:
In my case I'm lucky if I get to play for a few hours late in the evening when my kids are in bed and my wife is watching some stupid film about mermaids or whatever.
Tell your wife I'm sorry. In your case I think you'd be lucky if she didn't run for the hills. Maybe spend less time trying to get away from her to play a video game and more time with this person you've, you know, married, you might even discover you have a few common interests.
Life is a bitch but she's totally doable. She may be a beauty but life, life is a bitch.
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DaReaper
Net 7
1923
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Posted - 2015.04.14 03:53:20 -
[4] - Quote
1) there is no skill gap problem. This is what people who come here form Wow and other games with the wrong mind set think. Skill points mean nothing in eve. You get a little advantage in some things, but honestly not a whole lot. For example: Gas mining just gives you one more miner per level. but if you train it to 5, which takes maybe a week, you can us eone on a venture/prospect at 25% faster then if its not at 5. thats really not a huge advantage, but ti helps. and a noob can gas mine in about 30 min.
2) There is tons of casual play, loads. even things not considered casual can be casual. You can join RvB and have fights rather easily if you want, you can mine for a few hours and multi task, you can run missions, you can salvage, scam, explore, all kinds of things you can do on a casual basis. and if you don;t pay with a plex then you don;t have to worry about grinding to make isk to pay your sub.
3) Stop harping on skill points and learn the game. you will quickly find out that, as i said in #1 sp's mean nothing
to answer pour question, i'm an 11 year vet. my time of 'enlightenment' when i got the game and thought it rocked was a single week. and i mined. Thats what did it. you need to change your thinking clearly.
GL
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
300
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Posted - 2015.04.14 05:58:37 -
[5] - Quote
This reads like some copypasta straight from the European WoW forums.
"Casual players are the lifeblood of any MMO game"
Yeah... No.
Moderate strength is shown in violence, supreme strength is shown in levity.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Snuffed Out
7857
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Posted - 2015.04.14 06:17:54 -
[6] - Quote
"How did you Veterans start"
tldr; it varies from person to person... but the game actually "starts" when you simply try things for the sake of trying them (for better or worse) and/or socialize and work together with people... lacking "abilities" be damned.
"The Skillpoint System and You"
tldr: the system is designed to make your crawl before you walk... to learn how to use what you have before gaining access to "better stuff"... so you can see that "better stuff" is only as good as your ability to use it creatively and in the right situations... and to give veterans certain "perks" without utterly crushing newbies (like other SP systems do in other games).
Plus... that "throttling" helps prevent newbies from "leapfrogging" into expensive stuff and ragequitting harder when they are forcibly dismantled by more cunning people in ships a tenth of the value.
Oh yeah... and there is no such thing as "wasted" or "useless" skillpoints... merely skillpoints you are not utilizing (for whatever reason).
And no matter what you think you WILL eventually come back to those skills... because EVE is not linear and skillpoints you gain at any point in time (even as a newbie) will always have a purpose and never lose their potency (you can only improve upon them).
The only reason you would want a skill remap is because you are a dirty, dirty min/maxer who doesn't want to "wait" and always wants to fly the FOTM. In which case you are no "casual" at all. Because "casuals" don't care about a couple hours of extra training time they may or may not use. Or that one month they decided to train into mining and see if it really was that boring (hey... at least you can use a Procurer now and do shenanigans with it!)
How did you start?
The SP System
IFW
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Afrigael Hax
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.04.14 06:57:07 -
[7] - Quote
Obviously I didn't explain myself properly or you cant actually read .. generally I agree with most of what DaReaper said. Its an amazing game with boundless possibilities for self-inflicted adventures. Although saying its not skill based is nonsense, can you hack a can without a high enough skill to get though the minigame ..of course not, but I get exactly what you mean. However I'm already past that point and actually the post was not about me ..its about how new players perceive the game and why they don't play.
I personally have no problem with the game system...now.
When I played Wow I had no agenda and I still ended up with the same shiny swords and whatever, it just took me longer to get them, just like all my casual-gamer friends. We don't really care about stuff like that. I prefer gritty over shiny. You would have to be an imbecile not to know the difference between Wow and this game. I play to be entertained. I play as a roleplayer...that's why I don't read the forums ..I prefer to learn in game, or at least as much as possible. You guys have obviously discussed such matters before and assumed I'm a particular kind of person having a moan because I can't play the game or want shiny swords and a pat on the ego. Anyway how you play the game is your business, some of us don't have the time to play it as a sim, me personally I'm a roleplayer so I take much longer farting about than others who powergame, some nights I just fly about and see what's out there.
If you want to be sitting on your billions of isk smiling benevolently on us lesser mortals in 10 years time then you have to change people's perceptions of the game right from the start. You guys who read forums and get involved in how the game is run are basically the core player group. CCP looks to you for guidance, not plebs like me. There appears to be about 25k of you, where is everyone else? Where are all the minions, the smallfolk like me?
Quote:you can do virtually everything in eve in about 30 min of training per your occupation. To do it well or better takes both skill points and time doing it - yes indeed very well said, but you have to actually understand that.... you understand it, I understand it but most new players don't. You got the game from the first day..good for you (pat on the head).
All this amazing new content and changes aren't going to be worth **** in the wind if there are no new players coming into the game. Get your finger out and get it sorted. |
Afrigael Hax
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.04.14 07:10:03 -
[8] - Quote
Plus... that "throttling" helps prevent newbies from "leapfrogging" into expensive stuff and ragequitting harder when they are forcibly dismantled by more cunning people in ships a tenth of the value.
[/quote]
that's not true...newbies leapfrog into stuff all the time and get trashed and don't leave, but I get the gist of what you mean and probably agree with most of it ... but you are not a newb or you're just naturally a good player of this particular game in which case you're already way past the point of actually understanding the problem. |
Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
113
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Posted - 2015.04.14 07:25:40 -
[9] - Quote
Eve has changed since it was launched and i can't tell it's a newbie ffiendly much.
I did went through the tutorials and it was useless as ****. I was pwned on undockmy next day i've joined corp/alli. It was a WT hehe, so i have learnt some thing new every day, when i was running my single man mining corp so i was wardec'd and was surprised how the hell the bastard found me that easy (agent locator haha) so it was long and not easy way to learn all those bits and piecies and put them all together into a big picture.
I could tell the op one thing - do your homework before you decided to jump into this game, if you have friends who already play stick to them for a giudance, if not do your homework and search for a newbie friendly corp with mentors ready to give you advise.
This game is well knownw for it's complexity so you can't expect thigs go easy from the day 1. And you are correct , after a few years it is almost turned to easy mode gamestyle and things flown by default.
If you could spend sometime and look through the forums you will find some good stories about skill system you are blaming, and game experience etc etc. |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1501
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Posted - 2015.04.14 08:08:38 -
[10] - Quote
the throttling had a much greater effect way back in the past when income was more closely linked to ability in the game. Since the whole PLEX thing started up it's become a great deal easier for someone to end up flying something they not only do not have the skills to do justice, but also have less than a snowball's chance in hell to replace when it goes boom.
As a more or less 'casual' player myself, (ie, works a full time job plus overtime overnights) I have found there's plenty to do in the game even with limited time. Missions, exploration, pvp, industry and mining... you can do all of these things even if you've only got an hour or so here or there to work with. Some content will be denied to you for certain due to only being able to put so much of your time and energy into the game... that's no different than other MMO's in the past as well.
What is different is that your character continues to progress during that time when you are not playing. Your skillpoints keep training, your industry jobs keep running, and those market orders are still out there. That's the easy part. The hard part is progressing as a player, not a character.
I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
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Garmyne Atavuli
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2015.04.14 08:34:42 -
[11] - Quote
Empathy and EvE don't mix, it's dog eat dog man.
Some skill levels take 50+ days to train, it takes roughly 20 years to train every skill in EvE to Lv5.
Waiting for a skill to train is something you just have to accept.
EvE is all about specialization:
Mercenary, Bounty Hunter, Explorer, Ganker, Awoxer/Corp Theif, PvPer, Manufacturer, Miner, Salvager, Courier, Mission Runner, Scammer, Researcher, Pirate, Scout, Trader etc etc.
To learn them all takes a long time, to learn one take no time at all.
To be good? well that's up to you. |
Sykaotic
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2015.04.14 08:45:35 -
[12] - Quote
The skill learning actually allows for players to be able to use mechanics of the game.
Now.... learning to play Eve is not covered in those skils :)
Eve is one of very few games that alls all players to "skill up" per say without even being logged in.
The true learning while actaully playing the game.... and until one does that, it does not make a damn if you have everything to V.
Lastly, take FW for instance.... you can have a brand new toon and makes tons of isk very quickly. But.... you need to learn how to do that, and it does not come from any skill you trained, thus the trained skills are merely a way to start the "real" learning.
GL OP Gow makes some isk and blow **** up! |
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1625
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Posted - 2015.04.14 08:52:21 -
[13] - Quote
It's weird, when I started playing EVE I couldn't be nuked away from my screen. The one hour downtime was infuriating like "come on let me play!!" Within 10 days I had left my trial account behind me and before my 1st month in EVE was over I had purchased a second account with 2-3 month's later my third (which I sold 2-3 years ago).
Today with over 100 mil SP I'm forum-ing EVE while I skill-train-online.
Maybe it's all a matter of perception.
And getting asap into a good corp |
Sykaotic
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2015.04.14 09:12:33 -
[14] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:It's weird, when I started playing EVE I couldn't be nuked away from my screen. The one hour downtime was infuriating like "come on let me play!!" Within 10 days I had left my trial account behind me and before my 1st month in EVE was over I had purchased a second account with 2-3 month's later my third (which I sold 2-3 years ago).
Today with over 100 mil SP I'm forum-ing EVE while I skill-train-online.
Maybe it's all a matter of perception.
And getting asap into a good corp
Well, from what I have xexperienced, whether from pvp in 0.0, low sec pvp, etc... we all tend to take a break.
The nice thing that Eve has unlike other games is that you are lvling up so to speak even when logged off. This is a huge + imo. I would not be surpried if other mmos adopted this idea (shhh) to retain players.
I mean.. what are we going to do... add LFG Looking For Gank? Oh wait we already do and you need very little sp to partake of that.
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SpaceyJoe Mentat
Kollectorz
0
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Posted - 2015.04.14 09:17:33 -
[15] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:1) there is no skill gap problem.
I have found this to be true. Similar to wow, check out the killboards (similar to my experience with wow armory when returning after a break, check out gear/talents/classes that top teams have- this translates into checking out the fits/ships people are successfully flying; only difference is you can't see the skills they have trained). |
bonkerss
MASS A DEATH
Mordus Angels
5
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Posted - 2015.04.14 09:41:04 -
[16] - Quote
there are some skils that you have to have no matter what if you want to play competitive. for example all the cpu/grid/fitting skills. i wouldn't mind if ccp would remove them. its really hard to fit a ship as a noob anyway.. and its not making things easier if you cant use most of the cookie cutter fits or alliance doctrine fits for another year because you lack those boring core skills. |
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
301
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Posted - 2015.04.14 10:07:16 -
[17] - Quote
bonkerss wrote:there are some skils that you have to have no matter what if you want to play competitive. for example all the cpu/grid/fitting skills. i wouldn't mind if ccp would remove them. its really hard to fit a ship as a noob anyway.. and its not making things easier if you cant use most of the cookie cutter fits or alliance doctrine fits for another year because you lack those boring core skills.
If your alliance is noob friendly and at the same time demands their newbie pilots to fly doctrine fits that are very tight, you're either in the wrong place or you haven't been following your alliance's skill training plan like a good little bee newbro should. The cpu/powergrid related skills have a very small multiplier and generally train fast. They are an integral part of learning how to plan ahead and fitting your ship.
Moderate strength is shown in violence, supreme strength is shown in levity.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23609
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Posted - 2015.04.14 10:30:06 -
[18] - Quote
Afrigael Hax wrote:At the minute Eve is the 'Firefly' of MMO games and the end of season 1 is in sight. 45k players at peak time that's scandalous, there should be millions playing this game. It's all very well being the nerdy kid in the corner with all the awards, The difference between Eve and all the other MMO's is the single shard universe, as opposed to the multiple shards scattered across the globe that other games have.
I can't think of another game that can boast of 45k+ players all playing on the same shard. Millions would kill CCP's current hardware, which is cutting edge IIRC, and would force CCP to change the nature of the game from single shard to multiple shards by necessity.
Quote:but MMO games need players or they just wither and die, dwindling in a strange sad way. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who remembers some game fondly that's not around anymore and the game-friends they lost touch with. 12 years of steadily increasing subs says that you're wrong, many MMOs have been born and died in the time that Eve has been running, and most of them had higher subscription numbers that plateaued rapidly and then dropped through the floor.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Thorn en Distel
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
48
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Posted - 2015.04.14 12:06:25 -
[19] - Quote
I dunno... I'm pretty 'oldschool' as a gamer, I've been playing MMO for over a decade. Can't exactly be accused of not having 'stickwithitness', not after actually getting max level in some Asian grinders, and playing dying MMO until they where well and truly dead.
But yeah, EVE has issues, even for me. Truth be told, I'm only playing because it's a SF based game, requires more than just pressing '1', and because of a certain amount of horrid fascination.
The much vaunted skill system is, imho, crap. Not because it is skills, and not levels, but because it DOES make a huge difference if you have equally RL skilled players with high SP and low SP, and because it is an actual barrier to playing with your friends, especially early on.
So yeah, pretty unattractive to new players. And the older players aren't exactly helping with their HTFU attitude. Funnily enough, it reminds me a lot of some Fantasy games where older characters in their maxed-out looted gear of uberness complain about there not being any PVP anymore... such a surprise that those newbies that keep getting oneshot if they try aren't sticking around for more...
So what would I consider a better skill system? Well, you'll probably hate me for this, but the old Star Wars Galaxies one.
For starters, skills there were limited. You had a maximum of 250 points you could earn, and that was that. You could do a lot of creative things in combining skill sets, but you had to make choices, and no one could get all skills on one character. This made skilling up a character an achievable target even for newcomers. Those who only wanted combat abilities, could realistically get maxed inside a week.
And of course, skills could ONLY be earned by doing the activity related to the skill. Want to learn spaceship crafting? Go craft spaceships, earn the ability by starting out by making subcomponents and working your way up. Want to learn support skills? Go out there and do combat support, starting at low level and working your way up to the better abilities.
But that ship has sailed a long, long time ago, and I honestly don't see how the current system could be adjusted without a complete player revolt. |
Afrigael Hax
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.04.14 12:36:16 -
[20] - Quote
Now that's interesting Jonah and makes sense, but you are basically saying that success is just a matter of opinion.
I was just trying to give you guys a heads' up on what its like being a newb these days and my worries about the future of my favorite game. What I was actually saying about the rookie game is that its bad practice to take away the customer's choice of how they want to play the game and the rate at which they learn how to play the game, that's basically anti-marketing and in my opinion bad game design.
If you like playing the game drunk with your pants on your head, or so stoned you can barely see the screen ...that's your business. If you want to take hours pondering every little thing that's up to you. I prefer to play as a roleplayer, playing an indestructible spirit who sees getting blown up occasionally or trapped in wormholes as an inconvenience.. that means I make mistakes all the time and learn from my mistakes. It's costly and is usually quite inconvenient, especially if you get ganked in nullsec, but I like exploring the map and trying out new ideas myself to see what works for me.
Most of these guys are telling me 'this is how to play the game', which is the complete opposite of what sandbox games are supposed to be about....freedom of choice.
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Dots
State Protectorate
Caldari State
60
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Posted - 2015.04.14 12:53:49 -
[21] - Quote
The impatient and the risk averse. Neither of these are demographics that CCP has traditionally catered to. They won't blow up in ships and they don't buy subscriptions.
everything is better with ߦêߦÆߦù-ó on it
New Player Opportunities: a gallery
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1306
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Posted - 2015.04.14 12:55:53 -
[22] - Quote
I am going to skip the walls of text and try recommend some ways of playing casually that you might enjoy.
- Make a channel of friends, probably ones that live in High Sec.
- Get on some mailing lists for spectre roams or "NPSI" fleets.
- Take turns with your friends to find interesting worm holes
- Other than that do the usual ratting and mucking about in High Sec.
Good luck.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Schmata Bastanold
Imperial Collective
Unsettled.
3035
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Posted - 2015.04.14 13:13:53 -
[23] - Quote
You have freedom of choice regarding what, where and when you want to do. So have others. Sandbox.
You being in wrong place at wrong time on wrong side of guns is not opposite to what sandbox games supposed to be about.
Everything else you wrote might be true in your/newbie's eyes but it isn't in grand scheme of things. You might not see it but this is what at some point downs on everybody in one way or another.
Best ship is friendship, best measurement of bang for your buck is fun/hr.
Invalid signature format
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10705
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Posted - 2015.04.14 13:18:59 -
[24] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Afrigael Hax wrote: I played World of KungFuPandaland for 12 years. Found your hangup. Eve =/= WoW.
This is why I despise MMOs that aren't EVE (or sometimes Darkfall). Most mmos rap people in cotton , protecting them from anything bad (or interesting) while whispering in their ears "you are the center of the universe here" while in reality players are just hamsters on a 'leveling' wheel. EVE is great because even with all the "safety" crap ccp has added over the years (I swear, playing EVE on a new computer is just playing 'safety pop ups online'), EVE still basically expects a player to be an adult and have some initiative in order to 'progress'.
The OP is a warning for CCP. No matter how safe you make the game, how many pop ups you add to warn them that they are at risk of generating content (lol), no matter how much stuff you give a new player in the beginning, no matter if you use gimmicks like 'simulators' and 'dojos' etc, you are STILL not going to increase new player retention.
It's because those things you do (like the NPE) are side issues, what turns people off is the CORE of EVE online:
- the universal non-consensual pvp
- the single shard (can't switch servers to avoid people you don't like) with no instancing "ie can never be safe from people you don't like)
- the general game and combat mechanics that reward people with social skills/tolerances (more people is always better, which means people who can't or won't make friends can only go so far before hitting a glass ceiling)
-The time based skill system (which "robs" players of the faux sense of 'achievement' they get from other games, which imo is why misplaced themepark players in EVE spend so much time leveling up that Raven so they have something tangible to look at as "I did this")
and many more. Almost all of the core of EVE would have to change to attract more players because gamers in general need lots of 'fluffing' and hand holding. And if you have to change the core of your product to get people to use it, it means either your product idea was flawed in the 1st place, or you should have been happy with your niche market share and improved in that direction instead of 'mass appeal'.
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Baaldor
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
Black Legion.
281
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Posted - 2015.04.14 13:34:44 -
[25] - Quote
Afrigael Hax wrote:Now that's interesting Jonah and makes sense, but you are basically saying that success is just a matter of opinion.
I was just trying to give you guys a heads' up on what its like being a newb these days and my worries about the future of my favorite game. What I was actually saying about the rookie game is that its bad practice to take away the customer's choice of how they want to play the game and the rate at which they learn how to play the game, that's basically anti-marketing and in my opinion bad game design.
If you like playing the game drunk with your pants on your head, or so stoned you can barely see the screen ...that's your business. If you want to take hours pondering every little thing that's up to you. I prefer to play as a roleplayer, playing an indestructible spirit who sees getting blown up occasionally or trapped in wormholes as an inconvenience.. that means I make mistakes all the time and learn from my mistakes. It's costly and is usually quite inconvenient, especially if you get ganked in nullsec, but I like exploring the map and trying out new ideas myself to see what works for me.
Most of these guys are telling me 'this is how to play the game', which is the complete opposite of what sandbox games are supposed to be about....freedom of choice.
Let me give you a little insight from someone that has not played for 20 years of MMO and this game was my first. I am "older" as in, i get to qualify for AARP.
I have been doing this since May of 2005, and was asked to participate in a game that I had no friggin clue about. I was asked to shoot rats as my buddy mined. So..I was thinking I am going to be in some cave with a miners lantern strapped to my head blasting rats with a shotgun...yeah.
There were no real tutorials, you started with basically fckall, it took quite a while to replace a damn cruiser, meaning when you lost something...it really friggin hurt. We had learning skills we had to train, then you had to train up advanced learning skills to just get to where you folks start now. That's right, we had to train two sets of skills which soaked up about 5 or 6 million SP just to have what you got now.
EvE was huge, no warp to zero, selling BM's was an actual business, and a peak night was about 3500 people...sometimes 5000 if FOE, M0O or anyone else was having a shindig.
Goons could not fit a Caracal let a lone a rifter worth a damn, yet they blotted out the sun with them and Crime and Punishment was actually a place where you had crime and punishment threads.
You had to rely on wit, persistence and you spoke to others that had been doing it for a while, you listened to them so as not to repeat the mistakes they made. Although it is a sand box type concept, freedom of choice is great, but eating the cat poop is not smart and normally people will tell you that.
However, you do still to this day see players coming into the game with a head full of "DON"T TELL ME HOW TO PLAY MAH GAME!!!!" and you sit back and watch them go to the corner of the sandbox and eat the pile of crap they were warned not to eat. Then they come wailing to :CCP: whining about "NO ONE TOLD ME!! THIS IS NOT FAIR!!!"
Now as far taking two years to be able to do anything properly is utter bullshit. I had newbies (notice there is a difference between newbies and noobs.) that wiht less that 3 months in game, was able to get on fleets and garner a nice k/m count. on the inverse, I had guys with characters that dated 2003 that couldn't fit a crusier let alone fly one worth a damn.
The misconception that someone like me in a frigate based on how many SP's I have will out gun and run someone with 10 million SP's in the same frigate is flat out crap. You can only cram so many usable SP's in a Frigate or any other class of ship in this game.
Figure it out, look at how many SP's it will require someone to get into an cruiser, like a Stabber, and see how long it takes to acually make that sucker sing. I can guarantee you it is not 2 years. Or even a HAC, STAT Cruiser.
hell the Training path for a Carrier is less than Two years and you are talking capitol ships for chist sake. And able to fly it well is less than a year. So I am missing the issue about all this.
The problem is that I see the "Casual gamer" crap come out as an excuse why peeps don't want to do something or unwilling to learn.
I run a 20 mil company, 6 kids, 1 wife and 2 ex wives, one grand son, lions club, American Legion, Member of Chamber of Commerce, ASTM board, 90 minute commute one way (Houston traffic), play golf on weekends, Go shooting at the Gun Club after, spend time with my family and yet....I am able to log in, hop into something, x' up and go push someones poop in...or have mine pushed in. OR I can sit for a while and shoot the **** with my mates and chill. Or make some isk or whatever.
The "Casual gamer" thing is utter bullcrap. I know a fckton of players that have jobs, school and shockingly a social life.
The issue is time management. It is a skill, it will help you, learn it.
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Daerrol
Furtherance.
96
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Posted - 2015.04.14 13:47:15 -
[26] - Quote
I am a casual gamer. I play for maybe 2 hours a night. It's great fun. I do mostly solo stuff. I die to hardcore players a lot. I die to softcore players a lot. Often I kill myself. Did I mention it's great fun?
Sometimes I get on and marathon for a few hours, yes. Other days I don't log in at all except to update some market orders and made haul something to Thera (Yesterday). |
Schmata Bastanold
Imperial Collective
Unsettled.
3036
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Posted - 2015.04.14 13:51:16 -
[27] - Quote
Baaldor wrote:The "Casual gamer" thing is utter bullcrap. I know a fckton of players that have jobs, school and shockingly a social life.
Quoted 4 Teh TRUTH!
Btw: 3rd time is a charm or however you say it in English? :)
Invalid signature format
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1505
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Posted - 2015.04.14 14:13:21 -
[28] - Quote
^^^^
It's not how much time you have to devote to the game, it's the effort you're willing to put forth to get the most out of the time that you spend.
I've had a single hour's worth of EVE time give me a month's worth of pleasure because I saw an opportunity, jumped at it, and followed through to reap the rewards. Yes, skills take time, but if a player sets goals and focuses on achieving them then they can achieve plenty in a short time so long as they keep the scope of their desires to within the limits of their capabilities.
I keep a thoughtgun next to the bed, fully loaded with nerdshot. Just in case.
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Aphsala
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
44
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Posted - 2015.04.14 15:17:08 -
[29] - Quote
I'm a player that believes Eve Online needs a 2nd server with different rules and a complete reworking of the skill system.
It is my belief that only a new server running alongside the old will be the way forward for eve as any change to SP/corps/sov etc etc will only be meet with hostility |
Baaldor
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
Black Legion.
282
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Posted - 2015.04.14 15:41:04 -
[30] - Quote
Aphsala wrote:I'm a player that believes Eve Online needs a 2nd server with different rules and a complete reworking of the skill system.
It is my belief that only a new server running alongside the old will be the way forward for eve as any change to SP/corps/sov etc etc will only be meet with hostility
Why thank you mr/ms/it troll alt for this informative and unqualified post. |
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