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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3458
|
Posted - 2015.04.15 10:25:40 -
[61] - Quote
Quick & dirt fix: hand out a "gratuity" of 1.8 milion SP (= 2,500 sp/hour x 24 hours x 30 days) free to allocate, plus one free "skill remap" whenever the player pays the first month of subscription. Usable only once per new account (to limit "instant-alt" farming).
Good idea, bad idea? Wait until CCP is desperate enough about losing players who can't understand why it takes 2 days of Iddling in Real Time to as much as finish the tutorials.
The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25083
|
Posted - 2015.04.15 15:57:46 -
[62] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Quick & dirt fix: hand out a "gratuity" of 1.8 milion SP (= 2,500 sp/hour x 24 hours x 30 days) free to allocate, plus one free "skill remap" whenever the player pays the first month of subscription. Usable only once per new account (to limit "instant-alt" farming).
Good idea, bad idea? Wait until CCP is desperate enough about losing players who can't understand why it takes 2 days of Iddling in Real Time to as much as finish the tutorials. Doesn't help new players, only old ones.
It's effectively the same as the old GÇ£professionGÇ¥ starts (back when picking race/ancestry/school was a thing), only with even greater opportunity to pick the wrong thing because you have no idea what you're doing.
The problem is one of fundamentally incorrect perception. It cannot be fixed through mechanical means, and should not be fixed by pandering to that perception. It can only be fixed by educating those who hold it about the fact that their belief is wrong.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3458
|
Posted - 2015.04.15 17:26:27 -
[63] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Quick & dirt fix: hand out a "gratuity" of 1.8 milion SP (= 2,500 sp/hour x 24 hours x 30 days) free to allocate, plus one free "skill remap" whenever the player pays the first month of subscription. Usable only once per new account (to limit "instant-alt" farming).
Good idea, bad idea? Wait until CCP is desperate enough about losing players who can't understand why it takes 2 days of Iddling in Real Time to as much as finish the tutorials. Doesn't help new players, only old ones. It's effectively the same as the old GÇ£professionGÇ¥ starts (back when picking race/ancestry/school was a thing), only with even greater opportunity to pick the wrong thing because you have no idea what you're doing. SP remapping in particular has such a hideously large potential for abuse that the only real way to make it GÇ£safeGÇ¥ is to impose so many restrictions on it that it will never be of any use, at which point you might as well not bother to implement it to begin with. The problem is one of fundamentally incorrect perception. It cannot be fixed through mechanical means, and should not be fixed by pandering to that perception. It can only be fixed by educating those who hold it about the fact that their belief is wrong.
Yes, the perception that a new player should find something interesting to do in a new game just by start playing it rather than be forced to wait for two days until the game allows him to play is so incorrect... 
The Greater Fool Bar_ is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! _
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25083
|
Posted - 2015.04.15 17:36:14 -
[64] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Yes, the perception that a new player should find something interesting to do in a new game just by start playing it rather than be forced to wait for two days until the game allows him to play is so incorrect...  The perception that you have to wait for two days is indeed incorrect.
If they do experience such issues, it's probably something they should take up with their bank or ISP since that's a more likely cause.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Afrigael Hax
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2015.04.15 20:07:12 -
[65] - Quote
Do you play this game for free now? If you are not paying for it, who do you think pays for it? The nice folk at CCP deserve good wages, job security, health plans, big bonuses for the amazing job they do ... they don't deserve having to deal with idiots who are holding back the success of the game because they can't differentiate between the real world and the game world. You are this games biggest asset but ironically also its greatest enemy. I've never been on a forum before but I expected to at least be talking to grown-ups. |

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
343
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 00:53:19 -
[66] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:DaReaper wrote:1) there is no skill gap problem. This is what people who come here form Wow and other games with the wrong mind set think. Skill points mean nothing in eve. You get a little advantage in some things, but honestly not a whole lot. Yeah, I was flying an Ishtar on my first day. Oh wait...... Fun fact: on your first day, you can fly a ship that will make Ishtars cry.
And do 15 DPS |

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
343
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 00:57:46 -
[67] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:DaReaper wrote:1) there is no skill gap problem. This is what people who come here form Wow and other games with the wrong mind set think. Skill points mean nothing in eve. You get a little advantage in some things, but honestly not a whole lot. Yeah, I was flying an Ishtar on my first day. Oh wait...... Fun fact: on your first day, you can fly a ship that will make Ishtars cry.
Oh and are you out on a day pass or were the guards distracted? Please name the ship that you can SOLO against an ISHTAR on day one. If you are talking about tackling for a somebody else I can just type encouragement into local and have as much fun. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25085
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 02:18:55 -
[68] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Oh and are you out on a day pass or were the guards distracted? I conclude that you have already figured out the immensity of your ignorance about the game since you have to come out guns blazing with the personal insults rather than admit that, oops, you made a laughably pitiful excuse for an attempted point.
Quote:Please name the ship that you can SOLO against an ISHTAR on day one. Moving the goalposts does not change the fact that on your first day, you can fly a ship that will make Ishtars cry. I'm sorry if you never learned this, but that is precisely why incorrect perceptions are the only problem here, and why education is the only solution.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|

Afrigael Hax
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 03:30:15 -
[69] - Quote
I don't see how my internet connection in any way could affect skill times in the game. When I came on this forum asking for help you guys choose to be rude bullying assholes. Last night it upset me because I have a lot of stuff going on in real life and was feeling vulnerable, but today I see you're just pathetic bullies because you have brains and talents and yet you still choose to act like that. People with sentience choose who they are in life, you're not like the bullying assholes that I've met in the army or police, who always crumble when the nerdy guy stands up to them... you're worse. You can literally be anything when you have a brain in your head and you choose to be dickheads. Unfortunately I'm not a big enough man to feel sorry for you, although I probably should, but you've pissed me off and I have zero tolerance for bullies and folk who act like assholes.
To the couple of grown ups who privately said they were going to go try to pretend they're noobs and see if what I said was actually that off-putting ..I've just realised It's kinda pointless because it's like asking someone who has been a cyclist for years 'why is it so hard to learn to ride a bike and is the wheel supposed to be flat like that?' Anyway if it turns out that you agree with me about the noob-game then go talk to someone from CCP and don't even bother with these morons.
Finally thank you CCP guy for the blueprints, you're a star (whoever you are) .. I was trying to find something to thank my friend in the game who has been supporting me and he'll appreciate that small gift because he loves cov-ops stuff. I wish I knew you in real life I'd certainly buy you a drink and roll you a big smoke. Cheers dude you guys rock. |

Rastafarian God
76
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 04:01:13 -
[70] - Quote
DUDE
People that have been playing EVE for awhile are not like your normal MMO player. Playing EVE changes you. Ive been playing since 2009, most of that time with 2 and now 3 non plexed accounts.
People that play EVE, or at least the ones that understand it, develop a prison mentality. No one is to be trusted, everyone is your enemy, and you need to find a gang to be part of to get by. If you are seen as being weak, you will be eaten alive.
Thats why you never see chat in local out of trade hubs and if someone doesn't know you they are not usually friendly.
EVE is somewhere between the wild west and the Caribbean when ships had sails but set in space. This can turn people into pricks at times.
ALL of the regular forum posters have been playing for awhile. Most of them are only on here for entertainment. Entertainment in EVE usually means explosions and making people cry. It translates over to the forums sadly. People posting here know the game well and love the game. If you make a mistake, they will attack you.
It that right? in game most of the time, but in a forum, not always. Im actually one of the nicer, more friendly people around. I consider highsec off limits without a wardec but anywhere else, ill attack you if you make yourself vulnerable and I don't know you.
You just need to ask the right people and, yes, HTFU as well. You'd be better off asking questions in a noob corp or scope within the game then asking things here unless you learn to take things with a grain of salt.
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Afrigael Hax
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 04:37:50 -
[71] - Quote
Cheers for the advise... I have actually met loads of nice folk... its cool.  |

Rastafarian God
76
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 05:16:47 -
[72] - Quote
Afrigael Hax wrote:Cheers for the advise... I have actually met loads of nice folk... its cool. 
Thats good and I'm glad to hear it.
Just remember the forum is NOT the game. Although ti mindset is similar.
Actually, most of the people that I play online with that I havnt met in real life I met in EVE. Benn 6 years now. We have eachothers phone numbers and know each other as well as real life friends. Stick with it |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25085
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 11:53:19 -
[73] - Quote
Afrigael Hax wrote:I don't see how my internet connection in any way could affect skill times in the game. It can't. Unlike skills and SP, however, it is something that can force you to way two days before you can play the game, same as your bank if they decide that your decision to suddenly send a bunch of money to Iceland looks suspicious.
But beyond those two, there really isn't anything that actually supports the perception that you have to wait before you play.
Quote:When I came on this forum asking for help you guys choose to be rude bullying assholes. Last night it upset me because I have a lot of stuff going on in real life and was feeling vulnerable, but today I see you're just pathetic bullies because you have brains and talents and yet you still choose to act like that. They choose to act like that because you are being rude, abusive, and belligerent. No-one is bullying you GÇö people are correcting you. There is a difference. If you have issues that prevent you from engaging in constructive conversation, then you might want to consider refraining from posting since it will only end in one way and you will be as much to blame for that end as everyone else.
Quote:Finally thank you CCP guy for the blueprints, you're a star (whoever you are) .. I was trying to find something to thank my friend in the game who has been supporting me and he'll appreciate that small gift because he loves cov-ops stuff. You'll probably want to clarify this (or edit it out) before it gets blown up to scandalous proportionsGǪ
Rastafarian God wrote:You just need to ask the right people and, yes, HTFU as well. You'd be better off asking questions in a noob corp or scope within the game then asking things here unless you learn to take things with a grain of salt. EhhhGǪ No, probably not. The n00b corps have a long-standing tradition of working as echo chambers for the kind of ill-conceived ideas and erroneous perceptions that are at play here. While there may be the odd helpful person there, there's also an awful lot of players who have never ventured outside the NPC-corp sphere and who have never bothered or needed to learn some pretty fundamental things about the game. What he actually needs is to find a newbie-friendly player corp where he will receive some proper guidance.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|

Afrigael Hax
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 18:47:48 -
[74] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
The problem is one of fundamentally incorrect perception. It cannot be fixed through mechanical means, and should not be fixed by pandering to that perception. It can only be fixed by educating those who hold it about the fact that their belief is wrong.
Good we finally got the answer I was looking for .... tbh that was a lot more traumatic than I expected, it was 'like pulling teeth'. I apologise to anyone who got upset there. Anyway now we know what's wrong someone can figure out a solution. Most of the folk who won't play that I know think Eve is a completely different game from what it really is. I thought about it and the game has ever been harsh to me, can't think of one example. You die in games all the time I don't understand why folk get so upset about it, all you have to do is fly a boat that you can replace and if you get upset about losing implants then don't wear them. If some players are bored at the start waiting for skills give them something simple and repetitive to do while they are waiting, that'll give them the feel for flying about. Or whatever, you guys are the think-tank not me... just bear in mind that some folk take longer to catch on to games than others. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25085
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 00:15:56 -
[75] - Quote
Afrigael Hax wrote:Good we finally got the answer I was looking for .... tbh that was a lot more traumatic than I expected, it was 'like pulling teeth'. You got that answer on page one, and no, it wasn't what you were looking for.
Any trauma and teeth-pulling is your own doing by being abusive and pointlessly argumentative.
Quote:Anyway now we know what's wrong someone can figure out a solution. This was done over half a decade ago. You're late, and your whinging is old and tired.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|

Afrigael Hax
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 02:24:26 -
[76] - Quote
Oh stop being an ass ... and thank you. |

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
343
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 07:51:37 -
[77] - Quote
Afrigael Hax wrote:Oh stop being an ass ... and thank you.
That's just Tippia. He didn't post for six months or so. That is why I figured he escaped. |

flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2819
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 08:12:55 -
[78] - Quote
Afrigael Hax wrote: Quote:you can do virtually everything in eve in about 30 min of training per your occupation. To do it well or better takes both skill points and time doing it - yes indeed very well said, but you have to actually understand that.... you understand it, I understand it but most new players don't. You got the game from the first day..good for you (pat on the head). All this amazing new content and changes aren't going to be worth **** in the wind if there are no new players coming into the game. Get your finger out and get it sorted.
Anyone who starts playing this game and jumps onto the forums or looks at eve guides will understand that immediatly and there is 'the problem' .You yourself stated you never visited the forums and many new players don't either and that's all fine and dandy in other games but in eve you need to do your homework and you need to do it often and thoroughly.Since i started playing eve i tend to go to the forums of any new game i plan to try before i even start it , just to get a feel of what the people who are playing have to say about the game and what the good and bad sides of the game are.
There is a special newbie section on the forums and older players give tips and advices there all the time.But if you don't ask the question then you don't get the answer .. or you get the answer yourself months later.Add to that that there are a big amount of new player friendly groups who will also, explain this to their new members.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|

flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2819
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 08:32:53 -
[79] - Quote
Rastafarian God wrote:DUDE
People that have been playing EVE for awhile are not like your normal MMO player. Playing EVE changes you. Ive been playing since 2009, most of that time with 2 and now 3 non plexed accounts.
People that play EVE, or at least the ones that understand it, develop a prison mentality. No one is to be trusted, everyone is your enemy, and you need to find a gang to be part of to get by. If you are seen as being weak, you will be eaten alive.
Thats why you never see chat in local out of trade hubs and if someone doesn't know you they are not usually friendly.
I think that mostly is just people being indifferent with each other mostly.I have been playing eve since 2004 and back then everyone was talking to each other in local and it wasn't because eve was such a nice mylittleponyland.It changed over the years and mostly these days local chat is indeed empty or just people trying to 'get to you'.A shame really , i allways loved some local chat and still do it though these days if you get any response it usually boils down to '**** you you killed me you worthless ****' or '**** you i killed you you worthless ****'.
You see that in all kinds of games , i play fifa15 a lot on the xbox one and most of the times if someone has a headset on they'll just curse and call you names.I talked with a nice scottish guy this week about the game itself while playing against each other and he was as amazed as i was to meet someone who isn't either calling you a cheater for winning or calling you a wanker for loosing after.
It might have to do with online gaming in general being something special at the start and slowly becoming the standard for any half decent game.But that's just the feeling i have about it.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|

flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2819
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 08:47:28 -
[80] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Tippia wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Quick & dirt fix: hand out a "gratuity" of 1.8 milion SP (= 2,500 sp/hour x 24 hours x 30 days) free to allocate, plus one free "skill remap" whenever the player pays the first month of subscription. Usable only once per new account (to limit "instant-alt" farming).
Good idea, bad idea? Wait until CCP is desperate enough about losing players who can't understand why it takes 2 days of Iddling in Real Time to as much as finish the tutorials. Doesn't help new players, only old ones. It's effectively the same as the old GÇ£professionGÇ¥ starts (back when picking race/ancestry/school was a thing), only with even greater opportunity to pick the wrong thing because you have no idea what you're doing. SP remapping in particular has such a hideously large potential for abuse that the only real way to make it GÇ£safeGÇ¥ is to impose so many restrictions on it that it will never be of any use, at which point you might as well not bother to implement it to begin with. The problem is one of fundamentally incorrect perception. It cannot be fixed through mechanical means, and should not be fixed by pandering to that perception. It can only be fixed by educating those who hold it about the fact that their belief is wrong. Yes, the perception that a new player should find something interesting to do in a new game just by start playing it rather than be forced to wait for two days until the game allows him to play is so incorrect... 
Tippia is right there though .More started SP is something wich allready has been added as well as other feautures to make it easier yet the way new players view on the skillsystem and it's 'slow progression' has allways been the same.Granting more SP or anything of that matter will not help , not even if you give them 10M SP extra .Though i am sure the vest would love that for their alts .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|

Afrigael Hax
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 13:59:04 -
[81] - Quote
I think my problem was I had too many contradictory ideas floating around in my head about how to procede with what really was actually bugging me...why don't my fekin friends play this game? ...they'd love it..its so frustrating. I do know what to do now. I'm going to make a short vid of me doing cool stuff with my new 2 week old toon , put it on dropbox and send emails with an invite on the vid to join me for a couple of months in the game and hang out. Its true when you come into this game you have huge misconceptions about lots of stuff, the 'moment of enlightenment' that I was thinking I (and pretty much every player I talked to) was actually the moment that you realise everything you've read or watched is basically bullshit.. the game's only harsh if you think it is and the skill learning speed is just something you get used to. How do you change the perceptions of folk out there when there's so much rubbish being spoken in reviews and on utube ..long term players wittering on about how harsh the game is etc. This is how bad that programming is...I've been off doing stuff already but still thinking 'this game is holding me back'. That's kinda disturbing actually that I couldn't see that. Thanks for all the good advise. If any of my friends join me I'll just ask them to pick a frigate and a cruiser and I'll send them the relevant skillbooks to get straight into doing some interesting stuff. I think that might work. |

Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
1034
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 14:08:06 -
[82] - Quote
Afrigael Hax wrote:I'm going to make a short vid of me doing cool stuff with my new 2 week old toon , put it on dropbox and send emails with an invite on the vid to join me for a couple of months in the game and hang out. Just use this one, honestly.
Though I've found it's always easier to make friends in-game than try to bring RL people in.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Afrigael Hax
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 15:41:00 -
[83] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Afrigael Hax wrote:I'm going to make a short vid of me doing cool stuff with my new 2 week old toon , put it on dropbox and send emails with an invite on the vid to join me for a couple of months in the game and hang out. Just use this one, honestly. Though I've found it's always easier to make friends in-game than try to bring RL people in. Cheers thats a cool vid..but I think seeing me actually doing stuff would make more of an impression
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2821
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 16:31:14 -
[84] - Quote
Afrigael Hax wrote:...why don't my fekin friends play this game? ...they'd love it..its so frustrating .
Eve is not a game for everyone.No scratch that , eve is a game only a few ''selected'' enjoy.I have had many friends who played mmorpgs but none of them liked eve , yet somehow i loved it enough to play for 10 years wich is something i would have never held possible.Look at the vid posted above and listen to the excitement people are playing this game , that is the beauty of eve IF you enjoy it you'll find there is no other game that can give you the ''emotions'' eve has and that is not just meant for the pvp aspect.
Don't waste too much time trying to pursuade friends to play eve , rather spend that time enjoying the game for what it is and make friends here in the process.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|

Afrigael Hax
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 18:19:53 -
[85] - Quote
Ya that's good advise man.. but just had another disturbing thought .. I've obviously been playing this game all wrong.. you guys have made it clear even to me that I can't truely play this game as a roleplayer, you just have to read up on stuff that your toon wouldn't know. The disturbing thought is ...a clueless noob (ie me) with NO direction whatsoever in his skill learning has produced this toon which can easily farm wormhole combat sites in his cane and earn enough isk to buy a plex every 2 months even on my limited gaming time ... Personally I find that a bit worrying because it has brought me right back to the 'who's going to pay for the game if everyone's playing for free?' |

flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2822
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 07:16:57 -
[86] - Quote
Afrigael Hax wrote: Personally I find that a bit worrying because it has brought me right back to the 'who's going to pay for the game if everyone's playing for free?'
Since you stated this a few times i am going to assume troll now because why the hell would someone have to worry about this ...
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|

Afrigael Hax
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 13:50:32 -
[87] - Quote
flakeys wrote:Afrigael Hax wrote: Personally I find that a bit worrying because it has brought me right back to the 'who's going to pay for the game if everyone's playing for free?'
Since you stated this a few times i am going to assume troll now because why the hell would someone have to worry about this ... Yeah I should just shut up ... but it seems to me we are entering Eve's 'Golden Age'. You know you've seen it before...suddenly everything seems to come together in a game, its amazing for a few years and then boom, suddenly you are running around in an empty landscape. It might not happen with Eve as somebody pointed out its taken many years to get to this point and it might take decades to croak. Why would I worry..its simple ...new players pay for this game ..where's the new players?.. its not rocket science dude. |

Vorll Minaaran
Centre Of Attention Middle of Nowhere
47
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 19:20:13 -
[88] - Quote
Not only new players play for the game. I'm paying with cash, because I can earn the subscription fee with less time in work than I have to grind ISK. 15$ not that much, could be even lower when you pay 1 year sub. And I'm only a not-so-well payed worker in the public sector. When I login, I want to have fun not working on my second job only for to be able to buy another PLEX and work again for the next month.
|

Afrigael Hax
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 00:40:48 -
[89] - Quote
Vorll Minaaran wrote:Not only new players play for the game. I'm paying with cash, because I can earn the subscription fee with less time in work than I have to grind ISK. 15$ not that much, could be even lower when you pay 1 year sub. And I'm only a not-so-well payed worker in the public sector. When I login, I want to have fun not working on my second job only for to be able to buy another PLEX and work again for the next month.
Ya well said dude. If I double my gaming time I could earn a plex a month farming wormhole rats, but that's not fun to me and I don't have the time. Tbh maybe it would've been better to ask for ideas that could generate cash for ccp and yet improve the game for us. I'd love shedloads of cosmetic T1 frigate skins I could buy from the eve store, sadly us noobs love useless but shiny stuff and will spend real money for it. |
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