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Isnt it time we introduced fuel for all ships in the game?

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Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.29 21:57:00 - [31] Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm No
Corovus Gallente THeOThErs Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.29 22:01:00 - [32] I don't think the OP has ever run a POS. Now fueling those up is really "fun"...
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.10.29 22:50:00 - [33] Edited by: Risien Drogonne on 29/10/2006 22:51:20 Originally by: Doxs Roxs Originally by: Auron Shadowbane as you outlined it, it is pointless. If a ship can run 24 hours at max efficiency without refueling it just generates another two clicks for a pilot to make his ship ready again. One of the key benefits of the system I proposed here is that you get another ISK sink to slow down inflation a bit. And the most important part is that you add an incentive for people do fly other ships then battleships. The cost to operate a ship is what I am trying introduce. Personally I also like the logistical problems this can add to a large force, bringing fuel for a couple of hundred battleships if the fights get drawn out etc. Regards /Doxs And now I see that you have no idea what a money sink is. Having to give money to other players to run your ship has absolutely zero effect on inflation.
ElCoCo KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.10.29 22:51:00 - [34] No.
Sevenius Kaul	Posted - 2006.10.29 23:36:00 - [35] Maybe limited fuel - fuel required for 'insta warps' to 0km for example... C.
Ironnight	Posted - 2006.10.29 23:54:00 - [36] NO! Why would you want to bring that into the game?
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2006.10.30 00:47:00 - [37] Originally by: Risien Drogonne No. This adds absolutely nothing worthwhile to the game other than more tedious details. Sure it does, imagine outrunning a fleet in persuit till their core or support vessels for that matter run low on fuel and then turn the table. Adds heeps I'd say. Looking For Ventrilo Hosting
Mortol Strike Evisceration. EVE Alliance9673	Posted - 2006.10.30 00:54:00 - [38] Originally by: Doxs Roxs Originally by: Auron Shadowbane as you outlined it, it is pointless. If a ship can run 24 hours at max efficiency without refueling it just generates another two clicks for a pilot to make his ship ready again. One of the key benefits of the system I proposed here is that you get another ISK sink to slow down inflation a bit. And the most important part is that you add an incentive for people do fly other ships then battleships. The cost to operate a ship is what I am trying introduce. Personally I also like the logistical problems this can add to a large force, bringing fuel for a couple of hundred battleships if the fights get drawn out etc. Regards /Doxs null There is already a huge difference in running a Frig vs a BS the cost of the ship it's ammo, mods, and insurance. Overall the idea sounds a little to "real". Thats not always good for games as alot of people play the game to escape reality.
R3dSh1ft Caldari FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.30 00:54:00 - [39] This would be a great immersive feature, but TBH it isnt the time yet, there are soooooooooooo many things that need fixing first. But 10/10 for the concept, hopefully at some point in the future it won't be out of the question anymore. ______________________________________
Kusotarre Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.30 01:05:00 - [40] Originally by: Doxs Roxs What do you think? Regards /Doxs I think you should die.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.10.30 01:08:00 - [41] Originally by: Doxs Roxs I think I missed that, thanks for the pointer. But I must ask, why dont you think it fits with EvE in its current shape? Becuase the engines used on ships in EVE do not burn fuel in any way you seem to think. Except minmatar, but atleast their bigger ships use Diesel. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.10.30 01:15:00 - [42] Originally by: marioman Remember we are in the 25,000 or 30,000 or somewhere around there, fuel sources have advanced along way since 2006 ;) 23341 to be exact. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
War Bear Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.30 01:24:00 - [43] Originally by: marioman Ships reactors are powered by a never ending source of "fuel" if i remember my back story correctly. For instance one race has Antimatter Reactors, one have Graviton, and so forth. All of which is never ending, recyclable fuel source. Lucky bastards. We're still burning coal. No matter where you go, there you are.
Lygos ISS Navy Task Force	Posted - 2006.10.30 01:33:00 - [44] I support fuel simply on the grounds that it makes skirmishes, and patrols something to plan. POS fuel would not be such a royal pain if it were not tied to something as retrograde as ice mining. Mining sucks. The only reason it keeps coming up is because it wasn't removed before people got 1M sp in it. POS should have more intra-POS markets. Making POS responsible for fuel would create a MAJOR market for POS to service. POS themselves need overhaul in terms of defense and fleet focus, but the basic nature of what their role in the economy should be seems clear to me, simple, and non-controversial. They can pick up where BPO and similar concepts went awry. Note: Corrupting the profitability and utility of a POS should be easier than blowing it up. For example, gas mining could be done by mini-POS with really weak, small, and simple POS that sit at SS (in the cloud.) Gas mining in addition to something common like atmospheric gases (most common moon mineral) could replace much of the fuel need of POS instead of just ice. (Honestly, we should have all collectively said "No, fark that" when Ice was first mentioned. CCP kindof snuck it on us though and made it sound like something good as a replacement or alternative to mining. Ebil Bastards.) Fuel could be used for the following: -For warping without a prep timer. (easy mode) -For determining the amount of AU a ship can cover between fillups. (hard mode) Easy mode could make tackling interesting again with some modifications here and there. Hard mode would make Xenophon fall silent and would make every alliance and future alliance take a very hard look at current friends and enemies. It would make the hauler the main instrument of war and statecraft in many cases. Good supply preparation and forward bases would be essential to warfare and skirmishes. Those also become prime targets for heading off major invasions. Meanwhile anchored cans are able to supply very light forces, and cannot be pulled down with scan probes. Light strike craft could become reliant on larger ships that have the ability to travel further on their oversize tanks and more efficient engines in order to wander off the beaten path. I know which one I favor. --- Private Investment should preceed Public Investment
Reiisha Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2006.10.30 02:00:00 - [45] Originally by: Doxs Roxs Blah blah blah. Capacitor. Anti-matter reactors. Nuclear reactors. Fusion reactors. Dunno the 4th one... In any case, none of them use fuel at any large capacity, even in dreads. The energy output can be in quite a lot of gigawatts with not a lot of reaction matter, which is especially the case for the AM and fusion reactors. AM reactors could actually power entire countries with just a few grams... In other words, fuel is pretty much non-existant in the EVE universe. Capacitor energy is the rough equivalent to fuel in terms of gameplay. No need to fix something that ain't broke. EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
GeekWarrior Gallente FISKL GUARDS Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.30 02:02:00 - [46] Originally by: Doxs Roxs What would this add to gameplay? *There is finally an incentive to be energy efficient. Tree-hugging hippies! ----------------------------- EVE Addict, creator of the EVE Online Forms Greasemonkey Script \o/
Skaz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.30 02:31:00 - [47] I have nothing but dislike for a limiting factor such as this, firstly our ships already run on some kindof fusion clean efficient energy thingies But this would not enrich gameplay, sure another way to make money but do you really wan't to make this a RL simulation extreme? EVE is already approaching work like levels for some, want to add another factor? sorry but this one idea as well meant as it is, is a no no. Also it reminds me of another game where fuel was a factor and it wasn't a pleasant one. But to leave on a positive note you clearly thought about this and all and keep up the suggestions. We just don't need THIS particular ingredient. - - PINK PINK PINK PINK
Rawr Cristina Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.30 02:55:00 - [48] personally I like the idea, provided refuelling is easily done and not like POS refuelling which, quite simply, should be buried forever. refuelling should not be there just to make travelling cost over time, it should have a purpose. theres a lot of things fuelled ships could add to the game: - Refuelling Ships - Scooping Fuel from Stars/Planets coughElitecough using a module or whatever - Fuel Siphons/Transferrers (like NOS/etc, but for fuel) - The reduction in the sheer number of solo Force Recons cruising through alliance space hunting npcers and miners - More skills id also like to see fuel run out faster on smaller ships, such as interceptors, and last a lot longer on the bigger ships, especially BC and up fuelled ships isnt always a bad thing, it was implemented well in games like Elite and Homeworld, i dont see why - with a bit of thought - it couldnt be in EVE
Lygos ISS Navy Task Force	Posted - 2006.10.30 03:03:00 - [49] The capacity to go anywhere you wish contributes directly to the express need to go nowhere. --- Private Investment should preceed Public Investment
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.10.30 03:16:00 - [50] Yeah and for added "fun" we can add in a requirement that pilots eat, sleep, and take a schit once every 24 hours. Please, spare us the stupid ideas. The only thing Eve needs is less lag. It doesn't need player cantinas to sit around and have netsex, it doesn't need space gas stations, it just need to take what is already implemented and make it so it doesn't take 12 seconds to turn on an armor repper. Every patch we get the same boneheaded patch notes : "Well players, the nodes still crash every 2 hours, but the stations all have new graphics. By the way, we nerfed XXX skills, but you can train it back to its former strength with by training the following dozen rank 8 skills. We also implemented elite learning skills to help you train those rank 8 skills, the whole thing should take you until next patch to train until we can manage to nerf something else." We don't need new features, we need the server backend to be able to support what is already implemented.
crazybstard Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.30 09:28:00 - [51] Hmmm sounds like somebody is trying to turn EvE into Elite or Frontier, NO it's too retro. Don't mention the thargoids
Doxs Roxs White Wolves Defence league The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.30 10:04:00 - [52] Originally by: Risien Drogonne And now I see that you have no idea what a money sink is. Having to give money to other players to run your ship has absolutely zero effect on inflation. And where do you think those players get the materials from then? The core point is that we are taking something out of the economy since fuel is consumed. Compare that to the current state of insurances where money is injected into the economy from nowhere, that causes inflation. This is the opposite and thus helps slow down inflation. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty confident that I am right on this point. Regards /Doxs After almost half a year, why is my face just a '!' ?
Doxs Roxs White Wolves Defence league The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.30 10:17:00 - [53] Originally by: Taram Caldar Edited by: Taram Caldar on 29/10/2006 22:19:28 Edited by: Taram Caldar on 29/10/2006 22:18:20 Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm No As someone once said: We fly around in eggs with tubes up our rear... if I want reality I'll go outside. There are already enough boring and tedious pointless tasks in EVE lets not go adding any more... mmmmmkay? The last thing I want to have to worry about, on top of everything else going on in the game, is whether I fueled up recently or not. Of course you are entitled to your wery own opinion on the matter, however, along those lines I guess you would want us to remove all ammo for all weapons as well? Different fuels add tactics and possibilities, why do you see it as something horrible? Originally by: Taram Caldar Tip: How often do you think an Aircraft Carrier today refules? That's right: Once every oh.... 20 years.... why? Cuz they are fission powered nuclear reactors. Somehow I think the ships we fly are a bit more advanced than a fission nuke generator. Perhaps, but if you want to pull the reality card, how much fuel do you think an EvE sized ship needs to move around and manuever the way it does compared to moving a floating boat around on the ocean? I am fairly confident that using current physics it is probably impossible to fit the neccessary amount of fuel in the ship, even if you have a powerplant/engine working at 100% efficiency. Then again, who knows what the future holds for us? Its a game, but I personally think the EvE economy could use this and I also think it would add alot of tactics to the game, then again thats just my personal view on the matter. Regards /Doxs After almost half a year, why is my face just a '!' ?
Marine HK4861 Caldari Seoltachd	Posted - 2006.10.30 10:19:00 - [54] Originally by: Doxs Roxs Originally by: Risien Drogonne And now I see that you have no idea what a money sink is. Having to give money to other players to run your ship has absolutely zero effect on inflation. And where do you think those players get the materials from then? The core point is that we are taking something out of the economy since fuel is consumed. Not really. Supplier goes mines some raw materials. ISK into the system. Supplier refines and puts fuel up for sale. <1% ISK out for broker fees. Pilot buys fuel from supplier. ISK transferred to supplier. <1% ISK out for sales tax. Pilot burns fuel. No ISK transfer. If NPCs supplied fuel, then yes it would be an ISK sink, but if players can also supply fuel, it wouldn't.
Doxs Roxs White Wolves Defence league The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.30 10:19:00 - [55] Originally by: Kusotarre Originally by: Doxs Roxs What do you think? Regards /Doxs I think you should die. Are you dumb? What has threats got to do with this? If thats all you got to say dont bother posting at all. Regards /Doxs After almost half a year, why is my face just a '!' ?
Malus NalJa'ka Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.30 10:35:00 - [56] Originally by: War Bear Originally by: marioman Ships reactors are powered by a never ending source of "fuel" if i remember my back story correctly. For instance one race has Antimatter Reactors, one have Graviton, and so forth. All of which is never ending, recyclable fuel source. Lucky bastards. We're still burning coal. I lol'ed Disclaimer: Any spelling or grammatical errors are none of your business and/or made on purpose
Thor Xian Vertigo One	Posted - 2006.10.30 10:38:00 - [57] Originally by: Dark Shikari And nerf solo players even more? I don't think that is a very good idea. I'm a solo player most of the time and I've been saying all ships should have fuel since April 2004. Its a buff to solo players who arent helpless twits. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender
Fracking Beach	Posted - 2006.10.30 11:11:00 - [58] No. Just no to this fuel idea. Why? Well, here's why: Why not also add Oxygen to be a consumable item that you need to stock into your ship. If you run out of oxygen, you will die and wake up in a clone palace, but your ship is left stranded in space. Cool! Make it mandatory for pod pilots to use lavatories at stations when they are docked. If you fly too long without using these facilities, your pod will die of constipation. Same effect as running out of oxygen. Bottom line: There's allready enough things to be micro/macromanaged in EVE. I honestly don't want to be worrying if my frigate is going to run out of GAS while I'm flying in space. Really.
ildra	Posted - 2006.10.30 11:21:00 - [59] Originally by: Doxs Roxs Some of you may think that this is crazy, but I sincerely think it would be a fun ingredient. Implementation: All ships get a fuel tank, much like a cargo bay, but you can only stick fuel in it. Each unit of cap spent will consume fuel Moving your ship in space will consume fuel The passive recharge of your shields will consume fuel Fuels would either be existing materials ingame or completely new, prefferably existing materials. Running completely empty of fuel would not leave you stranded. But you would get a sewere penalty to cap recharge, shield recharge and to maximum speed. (RP explanation, the ship can harness some solar energy hence why you are not completely stranded) Fuel tanks should be balanced so that you can use the ship at max cap recharge, shield recharge and max velocity combined for about 12-24 hours. That would mean that a casual player would have to refuel about once a week or every two weeks on most normal ships. Give the logistic ships several HUGE fuel tanks so that they get the capacity to act as a logistics ship by bringing fuel to the fleet. Fuel should come in several different tiers, where the lowest are more space consuming and give penalties to the output of the ship and the highest tiers (or even T2 fuels if that is wanted) would only be usable by T2 ships and would be less space consuming and give bonuses to the output of the ship. Most T2 ships would require much better fuel then their T1 counterparts to operate at todays standards thus running T2 ships is also more expensive then T1 ships. What would this add to gameplay?* There is finally an incentive to be energy efficient. This would promote small ships and small ship warfare instead of only battleships all over the place. People who dont want to use alot of money on running their ships would pick a lower grade of fuel and would thus recieve a small penalty to cap recharge, shield recharge and max velocity. People who want maximum performance out of their ship would choose a more expensive fuel and would recieve a small bonus to cap recharge, shield recharge and max velocity. This would add alot of logistics to a large fleet that moves around in hostile territory for extended periods of time. More interesting modules, how about a low slot module "Extra fuel tanks" How to balance amongst the races: To ensure that Amarr (or other would be overconsumers of fuel) are not getting a negative impact from this I propose that their ships would be able to use all fuels more efficiently and thus be able to use fuels as if they were a tier higher, or a set percentage bonus or something else that prevents them from being at a disadvantage from using more cap. I think that this would add alot of interesting things to the game and I also think the extra isk sink would promote alot of good things! What do you think? Regards /Doxs Have you ever tried doing logistics for dreadnoughts or carriers? Think about doing logistics in a corp with over 100 players on a daily basis.. this would mean the end of 0.0 combat :P
Boratora Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.30 11:50:00 - [60] It's a good effort and solid suggestion, but I don't think it really fits in the universe. I just can't see how a people capable of building stargates, controlling ships with their minds and making perfect copies of themselves wouldn't be able to overcome a simple fuel problem. Even now we are probably 50 years away from self-sustaining fusion reactions that can persist for lifetimes, so I would hope that in 23341 they've come up with a satisfactory solution.

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