| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Tetsuya Wang
Gallente Taiwan
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 10:49:12 -
[1] - Quote
I've raed some scientific articles and the video: EVE Universe: Origins. There is one thing make me confuse-is my pilot already "died" once when he become a Capsuleer? Articles didn't said that but the video seems do. This is important to me because I am thinking about my roleplaying style after I activate my account to be a formal account. |

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9384
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 11:01:22 -
[2] - Quote
yeah as far as im aware the processof becoming a capsuleer involves killing the original.
the "eve universe" art book makes a brief reference to this also, but it is just that ,brief.
Lords.Of.Midnight now recruiting
Steamy hot small gang action is waiting for you.
|

Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
581
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 11:09:15 -
[3] - Quote
Technically, no.
You're not human, the dead pilot is just one of the many worthless ingredients that went into creating you.
For an illustration of how massively not the same person you are: the pilots used are intentionally selected from the most loyal citizens of the empires. Guess how long that lasts, generally. |

Tetsuya Wang
Gallente Taiwan
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 11:19:51 -
[4] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote:Technically, no.
You're not human, the dead pilot is just one of the many worthless ingredients that went into creating you.
For an illustration of how massively not the same person you are: the pilots used are intentionally selected from the most loyal citizens of the empires. Guess how long that lasts, generally. So the personality is totally changed, just like the empires sacrifice the pilots to summon my capsuleer? (well my description is not like si-fi LOL) But in the old day they just put human into capsule aren't they. What's the difference between put human in to the capsule with clone function and put nowadays special...person? |

Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
657
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 11:28:31 -
[5] - Quote
Tetsuya Wang wrote:Lost Greybeard wrote:Technically, no.
You're not human, the dead pilot is just one of the many worthless ingredients that went into creating you.
For an illustration of how massively not the same person you are: the pilots used are intentionally selected from the most loyal citizens of the empires. Guess how long that lasts, generally. So the personality is totally changed, just like the empires sacrifice the pilots to summon my capsuleer? (well my description is not like si-fi LOL) But in the old day they just put human into capsule aren't they. What's the difference between put human in to the capsule with clone function and put nowadays special...person?
It really depends on your personal point of view as to whether you consider yourself the same person or not. Its not like they upload your brain somewhere then download it back into the clone, its more of a direct transfer between the two bodies.
So not this
clone 1 - storage - clone 2
but this
clone 1 - clone 2
However the part about the origional body already being killed is true, the scanner they use to record capsuleers neural patterns destroys the brain as it scans it, so you activate your first clone as you begin your career.
Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome
|

Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
42094
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 11:32:10 -
[6] - Quote
Your character's brain is scanned before your 'consciousness' is transferred to another clone. The method used is very destructive and will kill the person/clone.
So yes, when your character initially becomes a capsuleer that first scan procedure kills the original, and your consciousness is uploaded to your subsequent clone.
Upon the death of each clone a fresh scan is taken in the microsecond before death (in fact that scan itself would kill the clone, were they not already being killed by someone else). So your character will always be the same person - themselves, or at least that is how they will feel. Their memory will continue on from the point their last clone died and they will remember the moment of death itself too.
Because you mentioned getting into RP there's also a concept used in the RP community called "soft cloning", which is a non-deadly way of having your clone's mind scanned/saved. But you can learn about that later.
Welcome and have fun. 
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17|12|116 GÖÑ
Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
|

Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
20544
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 11:44:26 -
[7] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:Your character's brain is scanned before your 'consciousness' is transferred to another clone. The method used is very destructive and will kill the person/clone. So yes, when your character initially becomes a capsuleer that first scan procedure kills the original, and your consciousness is uploaded to your subsequent clone. Upon the death of each clone a fresh scan is taken in the microsecond before death (in fact that scan itself would kill the clone, were they not already being killed by someone else). So your character will always be the same person - themselves, or at least that is how they will feel. Their memory will continue on from the point their last clone died and they will remember the moment of death itself too. Because you mentioned getting into RP there's also a concept used in the RP community called "soft cloning", which is a non-deadly way of having your clone's mind scanned/saved. But you can learn about that later. Welcome and have fun.  I'd like to add that I encountered many capsuleers who are actually afraid of dying. In character, I mean. There was not a single reasonable explanation given by anyone, which could not be dismissed somehow. Arguments usually go around as "you are not yourself", "you are gone and a copy wakes up" ... but these are all pretty meaningless in the big picture.
Just so you know. People might look weird at you depending on how you deal with it.
It's easier to ask for forgiveness, than to ask for permission.
|

Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
581
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 11:49:36 -
[8] - Quote
Darek Castigatus wrote: So not this
clone 1 - storage - clone 2
but this
clone 1 - clone 2
Actually, it's more the first one. This was more obvious when you had to pay for regular backups, but the skills still explicitly refer you you as an infomorph (e.g. infomorph psychology). You can be stored in non-humanoid physical media, e.g. that's what the sleepers are give or take the addition of some RAM on the storage device.
And to answer the random question up-thread, capsuleers are different from regular cyborgs (everyone and their mother and their mother's cat has implants) in that our psychology and the supported neurology has been changed for us to treat ship command functions the way that normal people treat their limbs and fingers. This is probably why 999,999 of every million people that are thrown in the converter just die without a capsuleer coming out the other end.
Edit: also, normal people that try to jack into a pod just die or break, so that's not a thing either. |

Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
992
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 11:50:41 -
[9] - Quote
When I started EvE and did the tutorial one of Auras lines was something like "...now that we have disposed your corpse..." so yes, apparently your original body has to die to start your career as capsuleer. Don-¦t know of course if this is still part of the current tutorials. As for later deaths, it goes something like this: as soon as a breach of your Capsule is detected, two things happen, first, your brain is scanned and the data transmitted into your new clone; that as such is not lethal but completely destroys your brain, second, a lethal poison is injected killing you off. Source: Some EvE short story.
Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
|

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5180
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 11:58:52 -
[10] - Quote
And just for a little more fun:
The clone bodies that Capsuleers use aren't what you might think of as clones. They're not grown from a sample of a capsuleers DNA.
They're generic bodies, assembled from biomass (quality varies. Sometimes human corpses, sometimes animal. sometimes vegetable) They have your face, because the skull's mostly replaced with plastic, which they can shape and then harden.
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Cloning
Woo! CSM X!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
|

Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1609
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 12:00:53 -
[11] - Quote
Technically speaking, every time a "new" you is activated it requires the death of an "old" you, including the first time. If you really wanted to get into the finer details, you could debate that the "immortality" of capsuleers is just a delusion carried from one clone to the next. When Clone A dies, it's dead. It's experience, awareness, and existence doesn't carry over to Clone B, only the memory of those things does. A and B are actually two completely separate organisms that just happen to share the same memories, giving Clone B the illusion that it is the continuation of Clone A.
But in answer to your question, yeah, you start of dead. Hooray!
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
|

Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
992
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 12:06:39 -
[12] - Quote
Found the backstory to the Capsule and Cloning: here
Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
|

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9386
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 12:27:27 -
[13] - Quote
Tetsuya Wang wrote:Lost Greybeard wrote:Technically, no.
You're not human, the dead pilot is just one of the many worthless ingredients that went into creating you.
For an illustration of how massively not the same person you are: the pilots used are intentionally selected from the most loyal citizens of the empires. Guess how long that lasts, generally. So the personality is totally changed, just like the empires sacrifice the pilots to summon my capsuleer? (well my description is not like si-fi LOL) But in the old day they just put human into capsule aren't they. What's the difference between put human in to the capsule with clone function and put nowadays special...person? no i think the change has more to do with simply becoming an immortal infomorph with little in the way of restrictions.
power corrupts, make any man a demigod and im sure he will become a monster in short order.
Lords.Of.Midnight now recruiting
Steamy hot small gang action is waiting for you.
|

Tetsuya Wang
Gallente Taiwan
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 12:32:13 -
[14] - Quote
Nerath Naaris wrote:Found the backstory to the Capsule and Cloning: here This is the article I read. Basically it says capsuleers are "chosen" from lots of people and because of their talent they can use the capsules, just like "heros" of Caldari. Which didn't mention they are clones. Then I watch the video, feeling confused now. |

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
494
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 12:32:58 -
[15] - Quote
this whole discussion creeps me out. After reading this stuff I don't even want to clone jump. Which I guess brings up the question why do we have to travel somewhere to set up a jump clone? I mean if our memories are just being transferred to a new body can't that be done anywhere? |

Tetsuya Wang
Gallente Taiwan
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 12:39:13 -
[16] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:this whole discussion creeps me out. After reading this stuff I don't even want to clone jump. Which I guess brings up the question why do we have to travel somewhere to set up a jump clone? I mean if our memories are just being transferred to a new body can't that be done anywhere? JC is another problem, few details have been mentioned now. If the same process is done when we use JC, then it's pretty weird for why the clone still can be used and why people accept this painful(? way to just jump. I want to focus more on how capsuleer be a capsuleer, though. Since I can not avoid the process if I want to play this game lol. |

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9386
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 12:42:30 -
[17] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:this whole discussion creeps me out. After reading this stuff I don't even want to clone jump. Which I guess brings up the question why do we have to travel somewhere to set up a jump clone? I mean if our memories are just being transferred to a new body can't that be done anywhere? ooooo it gets creepier when you start thinking about alts.
are they collectivly mindsharing or a hive mind of some sort? are they slaved to one dominant one or is there a shadowy prescience manipulating them from behind a keyboard ...err shadowy veil of mystery.
do they even have any agency of theirown ect ect...
Oooh look a rabit, cmere ya little fecker...
Lords.Of.Midnight now recruiting
Steamy hot small gang action is waiting for you.
|

Tetsuya Wang
Gallente Taiwan
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 12:50:25 -
[18] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:this whole discussion creeps me out. After reading this stuff I don't even want to clone jump. Which I guess brings up the question why do we have to travel somewhere to set up a jump clone? I mean if our memories are just being transferred to a new body can't that be done anywhere? ooooo it gets creepier when you start thinking about alts. are they collectivly mindsharing or a hive mind of some sort? are they slaved to one dominant one or is there a shadowy prescience manipulating them from behind a keyboard ...err shadowy veil of mystery. do they even have any agency of theirown ect ect... Oooh look a rabit, cmere ya little fecker...
If the player is a true citizen like existence, and the pilot are true slave like(well is actually more then true slave because none of the personalty left if follow the idea)... it's actually seems ok to me lol. But do it counter official setting? |

Tetsuya Wang
Gallente Taiwan
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 13:05:24 -
[19] - Quote
So do ccp show their attitude toward this kind of issue? If my idea in #14 is right(which means only some of the capsuleers are clones from start) then I could built a careful pilot who cherish his first life. Otherwise... can I built a Sansha supporter and the slave, just like what I've said ? hmmm I just want to try my best to follow the setting |

Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
581
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 13:18:10 -
[20] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:no i think the change has more to do with simply becoming an immortal infomorph with little in the way of restrictions.
power corrupts, make any man a demigod and im sure he will become a monster in short order.
Yeah, but... you willingly get a ship blown up in the training missions (an explicit objective in one of them), within a matter of _minutes_ of successfully incarnating as a capsuleer.
Ships, canonically, have crews. That's a... pretty big jump in morality for 15 minutes of "still basically the same as a frigate pilot" levels of power. It's fairly clear from context that the personality shift is a lot more than a slow drift into selfishness over time.
Well, OK, not that big a shift for the Amarr pilots, in fairness. |

Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1611
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 13:22:50 -
[21] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:no i think the change has more to do with simply becoming an immortal infomorph with little in the way of restrictions.
power corrupts, make any man a demigod and im sure he will become a monster in short order. Yeah, but... you willingly get a ship blown up in the training missions (an explicit objective in one of them), within a matter of _minutes_ of successfully incarnating as a capsuleer. Ships, canonically, have crews. That's a... pretty big jump in morality for 15 minutes of "still basically the same as a frigate pilot" levels of power. It's fairly clear from context that the personality shift is a lot more than a slow drift into selfishness over time. Well, OK, not that big a shift for the Amarr pilots, in fairness.
Look, Jim, Tom, and Billy were all jerks anyway. They deserved to be blown up and the universe doesn't miss them.
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
|

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9389
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 13:34:44 -
[22] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:Lost Greybeard wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:no i think the change has more to do with simply becoming an immortal infomorph with little in the way of restrictions.
power corrupts, make any man a demigod and im sure he will become a monster in short order. Yeah, but... you willingly get a ship blown up in the training missions (an explicit objective in one of them), within a matter of _minutes_ of successfully incarnating as a capsuleer. Ships, canonically, have crews. That's a... pretty big jump in morality for 15 minutes of "still basically the same as a frigate pilot" levels of power. It's fairly clear from context that the personality shift is a lot more than a slow drift into selfishness over time. Well, OK, not that big a shift for the Amarr pilots, in fairness. Look, Jim, Tom, and Billy were all jerks anyway. They deserved to be blown up and the universe doesn't miss them. "for this away mission ill need the assistance of Spock, Bones and Ensign jones *Ah shite*"
Lords.Of.Midnight now recruiting
Steamy hot small gang action is waiting for you.
|

Memphis Baas
309
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 14:43:31 -
[23] - Quote
Our behaviors are enabled by society.
Regardless of what happens metaphysically, we are treated as one person, given the fact that our wallets remain unchanged, and we get the same access codes to all the junk in all the hangars. Granted, it can just be that the memory of our bank account numbers and passwords, and the memory of our hangar access codes get transferred along with our consciousness, but I imagine there are biometric sensors everywhere and they detect us as same as the last time, even if we died/recloned.
It's a strange technology to configure and enforce... non-hackable access to clones and personal hangars that works through death. |

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
280
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 14:47:19 -
[24] - Quote
If something like transporter or teleportation or whatever is ever invented IRL, I will certainly never willingly use it ... cause ... death ... copy ... you don't know 
Do you know the movie The Prestige? A creepy one ..
I'm my own NPC alt.
|

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5180
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 17:29:42 -
[25] - Quote
There's a reason the Amarr have issues with capsuleers. Soulless abominations, to some of them.
Woo! CSM X!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
|

Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1613
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 17:57:03 -
[26] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:There's a reason the Amarr have issues with capsuleers. Soulless abominations, to some of them.
Yeah, but we're lovable soulless abominations.
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
|

Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
27982
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 18:35:40 -
[27] - Quote
Don't over-think it, OP.
It's really not a barrier to your RP and the storyline-mechanics surrounding clone death are rarely relevant at all while RPing.
=ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ...
Jack Miton > everyone knows im the best dusette
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
|

Daerrol
Furtherance.
115
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 21:07:06 -
[28] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:no i think the change has more to do with simply becoming an immortal infomorph with little in the way of restrictions.
power corrupts, make any man a demigod and im sure he will become a monster in short order. Yeah, but... you willingly get a ship blown up in the training missions (an explicit objective in one of them), within a matter of _minutes_ of successfully incarnating as a capsuleer. Ships, canonically, have crews. That's a... pretty big jump in morality for 15 minutes of "still basically the same as a frigate pilot" levels of power. It's fairly clear from context that the personality shift is a lot more than a slow drift into selfishness over time. Well, OK, not that big a shift for the Amarr pilots, in fairness.
The crew article also is pretty explicit stating that survival rates of the crew are dependent on how abruptly the ship is destroyed. On knowing-suicide missions it's not a stretch to imagine the capsuleer brought no crew/they ejected after performing the minimum amount of duty to accomplish the goal.
" if a ship is slowly whittled down through armor and hull before blowing up, we can assume that maybe 80% or even 90% of its crew would get away in escape pods."
That's still an in-combat escape not a "Ok we aligned the ship now we GTFO" |

Tetsuya Wang
Gallente Taiwan
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 22:10:44 -
[29] - Quote
Is this book http://cdn1.eveonline.com/pdf/eve_v1.4_white.pdf still consider as the official setting of eve world?
The book and video just tell different stories, that's troublesome.
Quote:A Match Made in Heaven It was not until eight years ago that clone manufacturers realized the vast potential of the hydrostatic capsule as a platform for their own technology. Funded by some of the largest megacorporation conglomerates in the universe, they set to work on capsule research and development, buying permission from the proper agencies to make modifications to the original blueprint. After years of dedicated research, a breakthrough was made. In YC 104 (two years ago), the first transneural burning scan interface was successfully installed in a capsule; technology that would, within six months of testing, allow for perfect clone transplantation upon pod breach in 99.7% of tested instances GÇô a level of reliability far surpassing anything the cloning industry had ever achieved before. At that point, utilizing the considerable capital at their disposal, the cloning corporations managed through incessant and insidious marketing strategies to change the public perception sufficiently to allow them to push their industry into the limelight through the avenue of the hydrostatic capsule. After six months of exhaustive testing and tireless marketing, the transneural burning scan interface was finalized and public perception had been primed. At the same time this was happening, CONCORD prepared and adopted legal acts which required every single manufactured capsule to be fitted with a transneural echo burning scanner, in addition to mandating clone contracts for every single pilot cleared to fly a capsule-fitted vessel. The official rationale given for the laws was that an increase in the viable applications of capsule equipment would allow for further exploration along the technological frontier as well as the trackless fathoms of deep space. It was, of course, widely whispered that the cloning companies had used their megacorp backing to effect these legislative changes, but those theories were never conclusively proven. Whatever its real causes, the fact remained GÇô the capsule and the clone were now inextricably joined, the legislative mandate consolidating their bond. Thus was born the PC pilot.
If it's technically needed to use clone body to be capsuleer then it sound strange to have legislative mandate force that every single pilot cleared to fly a capsule-fitted vessel to have clone contracts.
Also it says clone in pod is "surpassing anything the cloning industry had ever achieved before." But in the video showing how they made capsuleer, which confuse me, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZPCiqBLPM8 it's not in pod, which is strange too.
Should we just exclude the information we get from the video? |

Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
993
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 22:59:44 -
[30] - Quote
Tetsuya Wang wrote:If it's technically needed to use clone body to be capsuleer then it sound strange to have legislative mandate force that every single pilot cleared to fly a capsule-fitted vessel to have clone contracts. Also it says clone in pod is "surpassing anything the cloning industry had ever achieved before." But in the video showing how they made capsuleer, which confuse me, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZPCiqBLPM8 it's not in pod, which is strange too. Should we just exclude the information we get from the video?
I don-¦t see the contradiction, in the video the brain scan is clearly shown as well as the termination of the old body; the same happens as soon as a breach of the Capsule in space is detected: a brainscan and transmission to the new clone as well as termination of the already doomed pilot by poison injection.
As for the "clone contracts", that is just the roleplaying way to justify the monthly suscription/PLEX.
Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |