| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Syrilian
Ascending Angels
68
   |
Posted - 2015.04.27 19:11:42 -
[1] - Quote
So I have been flying the Tristan for quite some time and I have been thinking about my next step in the Gallente droneboat track and I can't decide between the Ishkur, Ishtar or Algos. I am leaning against the Algos because I dont think it is that big of a step up from the Tristan. Am I right about that?
So can yall give me a run down about the pros and cons of each of those ships, their strengths and weaknesses, etc?
Thanks! |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
520
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 20:03:01 -
[2] - Quote
Is there a reason that you did not link the Vexor? Drones are drones and if you like drone bonused ships then you'll like all of those just fine. It really depends on what it is that you are trying to do. The Gallente ships in general are all very versitile and I think they are a good race for new players to train early on however the other 3 races are also very good so it comes down to what you like and since you seem to like drones I'd stick with that for now. The ship I fly every day is a Dominix so I am kind of partial to Gallente drone boats.
So the Ishkur is a tech 2 assault firgate. It's going to fly similar to the tristan but just in general be better. It has better resists and just will be noticable better in pretty much every way over the tristan but they are much more expensive and require Gallente frig 5 plus the Assault frigate skill so it comes at a cost. The Algos is a destroyer and those are kind of glass cannons. They will do more dps than the tristan as it has more bandwidth and has a drone damage bonus that the tristan does not. However it is slower and has a bigger signature radius which means it will take more damage and be easier to hit. Frigates and destroyers are both small ships and therefore take small weapons so share many skills and have lowish training times.
The Vexor is a great T1 cruiser. Cruisers are medium ships so take medium weapons. They are slower than the small ship but noticeably tankier. They make level 2 missions easy mode and can run many level 3 and are great for belt ratting. The Ishtar is the tech 2 version of the Vexor so it again is better in every way but more expensive and again requires you to train another skill and the racial cruiser skill to 5.
Tech 2 ships have only 2 rig slots versus the 3 of tech 1s which mean that you usually wind up using tech 2 rigs if you want to use up as much calibration as possible so it's another expense to consider. Ideally if cost and skill training are not factors you pretty much will always want tech 2 ships.
I tried to stay as general as possible so that you could apply this info to what ever you are doing as I'm not sure what that is.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9497
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 20:06:47 -
[3] - Quote
Ishkur.
It exemplifies David of the biblical tales,
find something bigger than you and just lay into it , the bigger the better.
We have numerous morauder kills on our board with that plucky little ship (yet to actually snag one myself).
our newbies are given an ishkur and pointed towards battleships and expected to kill them solo (and they do )
I have had more fun in that little thing than anything else.
Lords.Of.Midnight now recruiting
Steamy hot small gang action is waiting for you.
|
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
520
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 20:10:32 -
[4] - Quote
I wanted to add that medium ships take longer to train than small and you have to add in the medium weapons into that so it's a step up in training time investment. Worth it I think but something to note. Also the Ishtar was such a good ship that it recently got nerfed. It did not get nerfed into the ground or anything but up until just recently it was one of the most used ships in game. It still however is a great ship.
Large ships on the other hand take significantly longer to train as do the large weapons. They add a burden to training time that I think should be avoided by newish players / characters until you can fit and fly medium ships well. |
Forum Posts
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 20:14:19 -
[5] - Quote
Vexor... hugely versatile, and a step towards Ishtar. |
Omnarius Ziltoid
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 20:19:07 -
[6] - Quote
I also vote Vexor. Although the Ishkur is fun to fly IMHO. |
Syrilian
Ascending Angels
70
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 20:30:16 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks everyone. I did not put the Vexor because I am not that close skill wise to being able to fly it. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
520
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 20:32:12 -
[8] - Quote
Syrilian wrote:Thanks everyone. I did not put the Vexor because I am not that close skill wise to being able to fly it.
you are closer than you are to the Ishtar and you listed that, thus my confusion. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
4834
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 21:20:05 -
[9] - Quote
I skipped the Vexor and went to an armor tanked Vexor Navy Issue. It was much easier to fit. |
Syrilian
Ascending Angels
70
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 21:20:43 -
[10] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:Syrilian wrote:Thanks everyone. I did not put the Vexor because I am not that close skill wise to being able to fly it. you are closer than you are to the Ishtar and you listed that, thus my confusion.
Ah, probably because I was thinking about it off the top of my head. I didnt look at anything before I posted it. |
|
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Spaceship Bebop
3807
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 21:38:18 -
[11] - Quote
Depends on your pvp playstyle. For solo work, I'd reccomend the algos. Sturdy, great engagement profile, sometimes underestimated, cheap. Ishkur is less viable for classic lowsec solo, imho.
Vexor is best in fleets or small gangs, VNI and Ishtar even more so (unless you're very experienced).
If you want to leverage your drone skills you could try a Maulus as well and have some ewar fun.
Good hunting!
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
592
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 22:16:44 -
[12] - Quote
Yeah, upgrade to Vexor, then look at the Ishtar, realize "**** it", and stick with the Vexor.
(Not even kidding, for anything that would require an Ishtar just pull your dominix out.) |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
520
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 23:29:16 -
[13] - Quote
I know that you were not asking about other races but I figured it worth mentioning that Amarr share armor tanking with the Gallente and also has some drone boats like the Dragoon and Arbitrator, not that those ships gain you all that much that you can't do with just Gallente but that cross train also gets you access to the stratios as well. And adding some ewar bonused ships into the mix could add some variety and options.
TL;dr
Amarr could be a good next step when you decide to cross train due to shared skills. |
Paranoid Loyd
4915
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 23:31:34 -
[14] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote:Yeah, upgrade to Vexor, then look at the Ishtar, realize "**** it", and stick with the Vexor.
(Not even kidding, for anything that would require an Ishtar just pull your dominix out.)
OP you did not specify what you will be using it for, this post assumes you are talking about PVE.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
|
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
592
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 00:37:17 -
[15] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Lost Greybeard wrote:Yeah, upgrade to Vexor, then look at the Ishtar, realize "**** it", and stick with the Vexor.
(Not even kidding, for anything that would require an Ishtar just pull your dominix out.) OP you did not specify what you will be using it for, this post assumes you are talking about PVE.
Well, new citizens' Q&A so I assume he's talking about a primary hull (so used for PvE and defensive PvP). No one new enough to be referring to this forum would ever use an Ishtar for PvP, also; the SP time investment to fly and fit one alone means you've been playing for most of a year at minimum and don't need to ask.
If you're wanting to blow things up good with drones in PvP I'd probably roll with the Algos, it's got enough bang that you can even ignore tackle and just smack things down as they warp in sometimes. Sure, the ishkur is better overall, but also more expensive and finnicky to manage. |
Syrilian
Ascending Angels
70
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 00:38:12 -
[16] - Quote
Actually I'm wanting to use it for FW. |
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
592
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 00:43:46 -
[17] - Quote
Syrilian wrote:Actually I'm wanting to use it for FW.
Vexor and Algos depending on the fleet, then. Don't throw T2/T3 levels of isk investment at FW for anything but frigates. |
Syrilian
Ascending Angels
70
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 00:46:25 -
[18] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote:Syrilian wrote:Actually I'm wanting to use it for FW. Vexor and Algos depending on the fleet, then. Don't throw T2/T3 levels of isk investment at FW for anything but frigates.
Is Ishkur too much of a isk investment? |
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
592
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 00:54:27 -
[19] - Quote
Syrilian wrote:Lost Greybeard wrote:Syrilian wrote:Actually I'm wanting to use it for FW. Vexor and Algos depending on the fleet, then. Don't throw T2/T3 levels of isk investment at FW for anything but frigates. Is Ishkur too much of a isk investment?
If you're using FW for solo/duo-scale PvP it's probably worth it, it is one of the best, if not the best, dogfighting ships around. If you're in a formal fleet mostly I'd stick with your Tristan, most of what you gain with the Ishkur is flexibility that's unnecessary in fleet work. |
Paranoid Loyd
4916
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 01:00:52 -
[20] - Quote
Actually getting fights is unfortunately also a consideration, I think more people will run from an Ishkur than from a Algos or Vexor. Something else to consider anyway.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
|
|
|
Syrilian
Ascending Angels
70
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 01:02:35 -
[21] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote:Syrilian wrote:Lost Greybeard wrote:Syrilian wrote:Actually I'm wanting to use it for FW. Vexor and Algos depending on the fleet, then. Don't throw T2/T3 levels of isk investment at FW for anything but frigates. Is Ishkur too much of a isk investment? If you're using FW for solo/duo-scale PvP it's probably worth it, it is one of the best, if not the best, dogfighting ships around. If you're in a formal fleet mostly I'd stick with your Tristan, most of what you gain with the Ishkur is flexibility that's unnecessary in fleet work.
Is it safe to assume that the ishkur is a Tristan on steroids? |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
1060
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 01:49:54 -
[22] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Ishkur. It exemplifies David of the biblical tales, find something bigger than you and just lay into it , the bigger the better. We have numerous morauder kills on our board with that plucky little ship (yet to actually snag one myself). our newbies are given an ishkur and pointed towards battleships and expected to kill them solo (and they do ) I have had more fun in that little thing than anything else.
had a corp mate that would fly one of those around and get into all sorts of trouble. Will forever respect the ishkur!
@ChainsawPlankto
|
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Snuffed Out
7923
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 01:50:30 -
[23] - Quote
Syrilian wrote:Is it safe to assume that the ishkur is a Tristan on steroids?
Yes and a little no.
Yes.
- it is beefier, able to maintain a pretty stiff active or buffer tank.
- it deals as much or more damage (you get a bonus to hybrid weapons!)
- a little more drone space with high skills (more versatility or redundancy!)
- more slots to "play with" 
No.
- remember those extra slots you get to "play with?" Well you only get a marginal increase in CPU and PG... which means fitting the Ishkur is going to be a bit harder.
- it's slower. Like... a fair bit slower. A Tristan loaded with a 200mm plate and two armor rigs moves about 400m/sec faster than an Ishkur with no plate at all.
- it is a wee bit expensive compared to a Tristan... making it both more of a target to veterans and, from the perspective of nubbins, something to avoid.
How did you start?
The SP System
IFW
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9508
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 09:39:25 -
[24] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:
- it is a wee bit expensive compared to a Tristan... making it both more of a target to veterans and, from the perspective of nubbins, something to avoid.
which is why we put our nubs in them and fire them at stupidly hard to kill things 
It's also skill intensive to get top performance out of so when you get in one your Going to be immediately aware of what state your support skills are in.
Lords.Of.Midnight now recruiting
Steamy hot small gang action is waiting for you.
|
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
521
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 12:09:36 -
[25] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:
- it is a wee bit expensive compared to a Tristan... making it both more of a target to veterans and, from the perspective of nubbins, something to avoid.
which is why we put our nubs in them and fire them at stupidly hard to kill things It's also skill intensive to get top performance out of so when you get in one your Going to be immediately aware of what state your support skills are in.
I think this right here is something important for all new players to note. As you progress through ships your fitting and support skills become more of an issue. Tech 2 ships and battleships even suffer more from lower support skills than do T1 small and medium ships. This is part of the reason why I recommend newer players to stay in small and medium ships until their support skills are up enough to fit well.
This is also the main reason that I tell newer players not to do a focused remap and ideally not remap at all for at least the first 3 months. Well if it's an alt with a focused purpose maybe but if it is your only toon then no. |
Syrilian
Ascending Angels
70
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 13:22:46 -
[26] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:
- it is a wee bit expensive compared to a Tristan... making it both more of a target to veterans and, from the perspective of nubbins, something to avoid.
which is why we put our nubs in them and fire them at stupidly hard to kill things It's also skill intensive to get top performance out of so when you get in one your Going to be immediately aware of what state your support skills are in. I think this right here is something important for all new players to note. As you progress through ships your fitting and support skills become more of an issue. Tech 2 ships and battleships even suffer more from lower support skills than do T1 small and medium ships. This is part of the reason why I recommend newer players to stay in small and medium ships until their support skills are up enough to fit well. This is also the main reason that I tell newer players not to do a focused remap and ideally not remap at all for at least the first 3 months. Well if it's an alt with a focused purpose maybe but if it is your only toon then no.
Yeah I wouldn't get into an Ishkur until I have finished all my drone support skills and have all my fitting skills at V. I'm throwing around the idea of not flying one until I have my skills to mastery III at least.
I just like how the Tristan flies; balls to the walls in your face with drones. And the Tristan works okay for that, but the Ishkur I think would be better given it appears to have a better tank.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9512
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 13:38:35 -
[27] - Quote
Syrilian wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:
- it is a wee bit expensive compared to a Tristan... making it both more of a target to veterans and, from the perspective of nubbins, something to avoid.
which is why we put our nubs in them and fire them at stupidly hard to kill things It's also skill intensive to get top performance out of so when you get in one your Going to be immediately aware of what state your support skills are in. I think this right here is something important for all new players to note. As you progress through ships your fitting and support skills become more of an issue. Tech 2 ships and battleships even suffer more from lower support skills than do T1 small and medium ships. This is part of the reason why I recommend newer players to stay in small and medium ships until their support skills are up enough to fit well. This is also the main reason that I tell newer players not to do a focused remap and ideally not remap at all for at least the first 3 months. Well if it's an alt with a focused purpose maybe but if it is your only toon then no. Yeah I wouldn't get into an Ishkur until I have finished all my drone support skills and have all my fitting skills at V. I'm throwing around the idea of not flying one until I have my skills to mastery III at least. I just like how the Tristan flies; balls to the walls in your face with drones. And the Tristan works okay for that, but the Ishkur I think would be better given it appears to have a better tank.
then you're going to love the ishkur, isn't as fast but you're not going to be bothered with that ,
Just run screaming at anything bigger than you that can't get away once you scram it, it's surprisingly fun .
our nubs are put in one and told to get 300 dps cold with the fit littering my losses ,
to get that out of an ishkur you need good drone and gunnery skills
Lords.Of.Midnight now recruiting
Steamy hot small gang action is waiting for you.
|
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
249
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 14:17:23 -
[28] - Quote
All great ideas so far but there is a potential confusion with the bonuses of both hulls so here they are Tristan vs Ishkur.
When comparing the drones bonuses only the Tristan actually has a small edge since it gets the same drone hit point boost but adds the tracking bonus as well.
Tristan
Per level
7.5% small hybrid turret tracking
10% to drone hit points and tracking
Ishkur
Per level
5% to small hybrid turret damage
10% drone hit points
Assault frig per level
10% to small hybrid turret optimal range
5 m3 to drones bay space
Role bonus
50% reduction to MWD sig radius penalty
|
Syrilian
Ascending Angels
70
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 14:26:10 -
[29] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:All great ideas so far but there is a potential confusion with the bonuses of both hulls so here they are Tristan vs Ishkur.
When comparing the drones bonuses only the Tristan actually has a small edge since it gets the same drone hit point boost but adds the tracking bonus as well.
Tristan
Per level
7.5% small hybrid turret tracking
10% to drone hit points and tracking
Ishkur
Per level
5% to small hybrid turret damage
10% drone hit points
Assault frig per level
10% to small hybrid turret optimal range
5 m3 to drones bay space
Role bonus
50% reduction to MWD sig radius penalty
True but with more mid slots, the Ishkur has a better tank right? |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Spaceship Bebop
3812
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 14:31:18 -
[30] - Quote
Syrilian wrote:True but with more mid slots, the Ishkur has a better tank right? I guess you meant more low slots and yes that can help tank, if it's armor and depending on the fit (you also get 1 less rig slot though).
But the main reasons AFs are much beefier are 1) much higher native resists as all T2 ships (though they almost always have a big hole vs. 1 dmg type) and 2) higher native shield/armor/structure hit points.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |