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Punishment?

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Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.05 12:08:00 - [1] Hi, i'm trying to understand the pirate playstyle and as this forum is called "Crime and punishment" i thought it would be the best place to find out, obviously. Yet having read many posts i'm still looking for the punishment part. Can someone explain to me the downsides, if any, of being a pirate please? Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Balklanac Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.11.05 12:12:00 - [2] Shhh to many pirates in here to talk about this ;P --------- I would love to see a bounty pilot get some friend or an alt to pod them to collect the isk if that resulted in a two week delay before their 'personality' was uploaded to a new clone.
Plaetean Murder-Death-Kill Blood Raiders Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.05 12:13:00 - [3] I think the 'punishment' part is reffering to pirate/bounty hunters. But there aren't many people who pursue that in the game, which is why you don't see many posts on it.
Balklanac Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.11.05 12:15:00 - [4] I dont think thats it people who fight pirates really dont want any more attention from them by posting here and hence the occasional alt post. --------- I would love to see a bounty pilot get some friend or an alt to pod them to collect the isk if that resulted in a two week delay before their 'personality' was uploaded to a new clone.
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.05 12:54:00 - [5] The reason i'm looking into this is that i recently told a friend from UO that i was enjoying EVE, and he says he knows people who play EVE and they've told him that CCP actively encourages pk'ing as a main playstyle. As i like pvp and he hates it we ended up having a umm...heated discussion about EVE. So i thought i'd find out as much about pk'ing going on in EVE as possible. Tbh i'm starting to see his point I don't see any drawbacks of being a criminal in this game. Also, i think seperating pvp'ers and pve'ers just doesn't work. The majority of MMO players are into pve. Look at hi-sec, it's full. Yet low-sec is mostly empty. The same happened in UO. Fel (low-sec) was deserted while Tram (hi-sec) was full. Adding in Fel-only items and better resources to attract players to Fel didn't work too well either. Personally i think a better solution would have been to have pvp restricted to corp wars...but i know no pirate/pk would like that But that's just my opinion anyway... Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
T'Renn Vale Heavy Industries SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.05 13:01:00 - [6] Consensual PvP! That's what we need! C'mon, CCP - I'm tired of getting popped! Seriously, there are drawbacks to piracy. One of which being sec status. I end up paying around 10 mil ISK more for a megathron than I would if I could get it from Rens, for instance. -- Eh... 24k? I can't make a sig that doesn't suck and keep it under 24k. Oh well.
Balklanac Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.11.05 13:04:00 - [7] Originally by: Wolfways The reason i'm looking into this is that i recently told a friend from UO that i was enjoying EVE, and he says he knows people who play EVE and they've told him that CCP actively encourages pk'ing as a main playstyle. As i like pvp and he hates it we ended up having a umm...heated discussion about EVE. So i thought i'd find out as much about pk'ing going on in EVE as possible. Tbh i'm starting to see his point I don't see any drawbacks of being a criminal in this game. Also, i think seperating pvp'ers and pve'ers just doesn't work. The majority of MMO players are into pve. Look at hi-sec, it's full. Yet low-sec is mostly empty. The same happened in UO. Fel (low-sec) was deserted while Tram (hi-sec) was full. Adding in Fel-only items and better resources to attract players to Fel didn't work too well either. Personally i think a better solution would have been to have pvp restricted to corp wars...but i know no pirate/pk would like that But that's just my opinion anyway... For your last point there is such a place and its space with security of 0.5 and higher. CCP has actually done a fine job in integrating the PvE community and PvP community into a single shard and they've done the job so well in fact that I belive a lot of people that wouldnt have touched PvP with such much harsher loss penalties have started to PvP. --------- I would love to see a bounty pilot get some friend or an alt to pod them to collect the isk if that resulted in a two week delay before their 'personality' was uploaded to a new clone.
Expote RSP Enterprises	Posted - 2006.11.05 13:05:00 - [8] The only drawback is that you can't go to high sec after a while and that people can shoot you without sentries doing anything once you're an outlaw. It's not too hard to live with (I have an outlaw alt). Ahh.. Good old UO. They really killed that game for me with Trammel. :(
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.05 14:40:00 - [9] Originally by: T'Renn Consensual PvP! That's what we need! C'mon, CCP - I'm tired of getting popped! Seriously, there are drawbacks to piracy. One of which being sec status. I end up paying around 10 mil ISK more for a megathron than I would if I could get it from Rens, for instance. Isn't that what pirates use alts for? Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
T'Renn Vale Heavy Industries SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.05 14:59:00 - [10] That's the lame way to do it. I get tired of hauling crap around with an alt. I'd rather just find interesting ways to get it myself. I'm trying to stick to game mechanics as a single character and so I avoid flying stuff around with an alt. I have to have -some- penalty for being a "bad girl." -- Eh... 24k? I can't make a sig that doesn't suck and keep it under 24k. Oh well.
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.11.05 15:04:00 - [11] If there were more incentives to do so, I think bounty hunting would be a fun profession. On average, killing (other) pirates will get you better loot, but that's about all. Of course, I can't think of any alternatives that aren't easily exploitable by unscrupulous people (you know, like us). _ The Billionaire Buccaneer (Now with 50% more Roleplay!)
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.05 18:39:00 - [12] Originally by: T'Renn That's the lame way to do it. I get tired of hauling crap around with an alt. I'd rather just find interesting ways to get it myself. I'm trying to stick to game mechanics as a single character and so I avoid flying stuff around with an alt. I have to have -some- penalty for being a "bad girl." It's easy to respect someone who doesn't use alts Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.05 18:48:00 - [13] Ahhh the wonders of having your own UO shard - concensual pvp you say? I think not! DELETE! Yay me! -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Plaetean Murder-Death-Kill Blood Raiders Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.05 20:25:00 - [14] Please don't call it pk'ing, EVE is primarily a pvp game, so it doesn't really fit here. I don't know many 03, 04 chars who have been spending the past few years mining or running missions without engaging in pvp (I don't deny that there are some, but I'm sure there are many more older characters who pvp). My point is in EVE, I find pvp is where the fun is, for a lot of people pve is just a means to an end (more isk to pvp with). Again, I know there are people who only mine and run missions as they enjoy it more or don't enjoy pvp, but I think they are outnumbered. Also, from my experience, most people eventually turn to pvp at some point, or leave the game. You say low sec is empty, however if you take the hundreds of 0.0 alliaces, aswell as all the empire merc/war dec corps, many of whom are 'pvpers', the picture changes. I find co-ordinating a succesful raid, or a counter-attack, carrying out a merc contract or most other pvp activities are much more fun and satisfying than fighting NPCs. This is my view of things, and there are some people who 'protect' the pve community by fighting pirates (the 'punishment' of the crime & punishment) but there are not many. My views are my own etc etc
Zoxia Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.11.05 21:00:00 - [15] Edited by: Zoxia on 05/11/2006 21:00:36 excuse me?? it is defined as PKing btw. You can paint it anyways youd like. when you kill others without them even wanting to fight it is PKING. :) I know you Pkers want to hide behind the pirate tag but sorry guys your PKERS ;) its that simple.
Plaetean Murder-Death-Kill Blood Raiders Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.05 21:03:00 - [16] lol, that makes it sound like pirates only fight those who want to fight. My views are my own etc etc
Ramius Decimus	Posted - 2006.11.05 22:21:00 - [17] Edited by: Ramius Decimus on 05/11/2006 22:23:02 Edited by: Ramius Decimus on 05/11/2006 22:21:56 I've only been around for so long, but as far as I see clear, everything is good the way it is! Gives freedom of choice, movement, and future goals. People have made their choices, and many have chosen the easier careers. Being a Bounty Hunter is one tough gig, that if not done right, could result in horrible outcomes for yourself. I don't believe anything should be changed thus far... just maybe more improvements to the "freedom" we have would be great. And from what I read in the dev blogs, EVE Online is going in the right direction!!! DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING CCP! EVE KICKS ASS! :D
Mar Idoun Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels	Posted - 2006.11.05 22:38:00 - [18] Originally by: Zoxia Edited by: Zoxia on 05/11/2006 21:00:36 excuse me?? it is defined as PKing btw. You can paint it anyways youd like. when you kill others without them even wanting to fight it is PKING. :) I know you Pkers want to hide behind the pirate tag but sorry guys your PKERS ;) its that simple. Thing is, PKers aren't looked down upon in Eve as in other games. So it's kind of useless to use vernacular from other games to insult people in an game where one of the points that's emphasized is the possibility for unconsenstual PvP to occur.
ObiAliKonobi mUfFiN fAcToRy Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.06 00:12:00 - [19] Edited by: ObiAliKonobi on 06/11/2006 00:13:45 Originally by: Wolfways Hi, i'm trying to understand the pirate playstyle and as this forum is called "Crime and punishment" i thought it would be the best place to find out, obviously. Yet having read many posts i'm still looking for the punishment part. Can someone explain to me the downsides, if any, of being a pirate please? Tearing a new system a new ass hole for a week then having half a dozen merc corps kick your ass soon after
Rooker	Posted - 2006.11.06 04:48:00 - [20] There are several downsides. 1) Pirate hunters, bounty hunters and other pirates who can't find anyone else to attack. Pirates **** people off, so people will hire mercs or other pirates to pod them a few a times or run them out of a certain area. 2) Pirates usually can't go into certain high sec systems because of their security status. Since people will avoid low sec, they don't sell things there, which means pirates have trouble buying things. If they use a hauler alt, another pirate might gank it on the way in or out of high sec. 3) If their security status gets real low, anyone can attack them without a security hit or sentry gun intervention. Which means a blob of battleships can crash into a gatecamp and blow them away and their mates can't help without the sentries getting into it. 4) Anyone with very negative security status is kill on sight in many parts of 0.0, because the local alliance figures they are there to cause trouble. Personally, I don't like pirates and couldn't be one myself. I'm not the sort to cause somebody else grief (unless they deserve it), but I realize they don't have it all easy. A friend of mine got kicked out of our corp for pirating, but he's still welcome in a private channel for corp members and friends. He is forever asking if someone could haul replacement ships or ammo to the edge of low sec, because he can't get to it himself.
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.06 10:02:00 - [21] Okay thanks for the replies all Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.11.06 12:14:00 - [22] like someone said "Some people build stuff, other mine minerals, and even more stab you with a shiv and take your cookies." The punishment is a lot of people being ****ed off and sending mercs your way This corp is recruiting. Billboard Project
DubanFP Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.06 17:08:00 - [23] Edited by: DubanFP on 06/11/2006 17:12:43 Edited by: DubanFP on 06/11/2006 17:09:56 clicking yes to the popup that asks "are you sure you want to enter this space because concord will not help you here" = consent, and you can't say anything otherwise. Don't like it don't click it, simple as that. You want to know the ship and stuff of who you fight before you fight "consensual"? Go to empire and get people to open your cargo containers and enter a duel. Also often people don't get kicked out of corp for pirating as much as they get kicked because the corp as a whole doesn't want to be associated with piracy "making many people hostile to them". Considering your friend getting kicked chances are that was reason. Right now my alliance would kick me for that very reason though if there was any hard feelings it would be because of disobeying orders not the actual act. I tend to do piracy-like acts within rules of alliance. "they fire on me first, they're griefing newbies in high-sec space, ect", although I myself think anyone who clicks that pop-up pretty much has given thier consent out. __________________________ Why babelfish is bad mmm k "which the night do not expect that it calls the primary education before becoming deformed inside"
DubanFP Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.06 17:15:00 - [24] Originally by: Plaetean My point is in EVE, I find pvp is where the fun is, for a lot of people pve is just a means to an end (more isk to pvp with). Again, I know there are people who only mine and run missions as they enjoy it more or don't enjoy pvp, but I think they are outnumbered. Also, from my experience, most people eventually turn to pvp at some point, or leave the game. Couldn't have said it better myself __________________________ Why babelfish is bad mmm k "which the night do not expect that it calls the primary education before becoming deformed inside"
Aries Silvermoon Team Americas Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.06 17:35:00 - [25] Originally by: Devilish Ledoux If there were more incentives to do so, I think bounty hunting would be a fun profession. On average, killing (other) pirates will get you better loot, but that's about all. Of course, I can't think of any alternatives that aren't easily exploitable by unscrupulous people (you know, like us). They could add a very fun aspect to the game if they seeded in bounties on pirates. Say 100K for every person you killed. And that could be a "Concord" bounty, which unlike the player-instituted bounties (which only payout when a corpse is made) would pay out upon ship destruction. Because let's face it, it's tough to tackle a pod if the pilot knew his ship was going down and has been mashing the warp button. Bounty hunters would actually make money for a change, and it would give pirates something to track and bragg about. Instead of the randomness of player bounties, one could bragg "Concord will pay 5 million for my destruction" - which means they have a streak of 50 kills since their last loss, or something like that. hmm, come to think of it maybe 100K isn't enough, hafta be a REALLY good pirate to be worth much. but you get the idea.
Snarls McGee	Posted - 2006.11.06 18:38:00 - [26] Originally by: Plaetean I think the 'punishment' part is reffering to pirate/bounty hunters. But there aren't many people who pursue that in the game, which is why you don't see many posts on it. The 'punishment' part is broken, quite honestly. Pirates pop miners and then just go park in a station until the timer wears off and gets to casually fly by the miner's corp's combat pilots, even after killing said miner. If anyone tries to avenge their corp mate THEY"RE branded as criminals and get Condorked. In fact, anyone that tries to help the victim while the crime is going on get's Condorked. I'd be willing to wager that high-sec piracy wouldn't be as popular if the players/'victims' had any kind of real power to help each other. The saddest part is that the same pirate will then brag about his 'awesome PvP' when his BC took out a mining barge.. Personally I think aggression timers should be at least 24 hours long and corp wide.
Snarls McGee	Posted - 2006.11.06 18:43:00 - [27] Originally by: Aries Silvermoon They could add a very fun aspect to the game if they seeded in bounties on pirates. Say 100K for every person you killed. And that could be a "Concord" bounty, which unlike the player-instituted bounties (which only payout when a corpse is made) would pay out upon ship destruction. Because let's face it, it's tough to tackle a pod if the pilot knew his ship was going down and has been mashing the warp button. Bounty hunters would actually make money for a change, and it would give pirates something to track and bragg about. Instead of the randomness of player bounties, one could bragg "Concord will pay 5 million for my destruction" - which means they have a streak of 50 kills since their last loss, or something like that. hmm, come to think of it maybe 100K isn't enough, hafta be a REALLY good pirate to be worth much. but you get the idea. I'm sure pirates would love that idea. Then they can feign an uproar when their alt unexpectedly destroys their shuttle for a cool 5 mil.. They wouldn't even lose their implants and still come out ahead.
Destr0math Tritanium Workers Union	Posted - 2006.11.06 19:42:00 - [28] Originally by: Snarls McGee Originally by: Plaetean I think the 'punishment' part is reffering to pirate/bounty hunters. But there aren't many people who pursue that in the game, which is why you don't see many posts on it. The 'punishment' part is broken, quite honestly. Pirates pop miners and then just go park in a station until the timer wears off and gets to casually fly by the miner's corp's combat pilots, even after killing said miner. If anyone tries to avenge their corp mate THEY"RE branded as criminals and get Condorked. In fact, anyone that tries to help the victim while the crime is going on get's Condorked. I'd be willing to wager that high-sec piracy wouldn't be as popular if the players/'victims' had any kind of real power to help each other. The saddest part is that the same pirate will then brag about his 'awesome PvP' when his BC took out a mining barge.. Personally I think aggression timers should be at least 24 hours long and corp wide. Apparently you don't understand game mechanics at all. In hi-sec, for the pirate to be able to attack you in the first place, you have to have either stolen from him, attacked him, or attacked one of his cans. If you shoot at a pirate in high sec, you're an idiot first of all, because concord will kill you. If you let him steal from you and then you steal back...you're again, an idiot. The pirate can't just attack you in hi-sec, so stop complaining about concord. The "victim" had to agress him in some way.
Snarls McGee	Posted - 2006.11.06 19:53:00 - [29] Originally by: Destr0math Apparently you don't understand game mechanics at all. In hi-sec, for the pirate to be able to attack you in the first place, you have to have either stolen from him, attacked him, or attacked one of his cans. If you shoot at a pirate in high sec, you're an idiot first of all, because concord will kill you. If you let him steal from you and then you steal back...you're again, an idiot. The pirate can't just attack you in hi-sec, so stop complaining about concord. The "victim" had to agress him in some way. First of all, you can fully well be attacked by a pirate with no provocation or warning on your end (see: lofty). Second of all you fail to mention suicide gankers with looting alts. The police will watch a mugger attack someone but shoot anyone helping the victim? The police will sometimes kill a mugger but let his buddies mug the victim's loot with no intervention? Why should a pirate be safer in high-sec than a law abiding citizen? Even the wild west had lynch mobs (usually supported by local law enforcement) to drive the criminals out of settled areas. I have no problems with pirating being a game mechanic, I just think it is bass ackwards that pirates have more protection than their victims.
Aries Silvermoon Team Americas Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.06 20:06:00 - [30] Originally by: Snarls McGee Originally by: Aries Silvermoon They could add a very fun aspect to the game if they seeded in bounties on pirates. Say 100K for every person you killed. And that could be a "Concord" bounty, which unlike the player-instituted bounties (which only payout when a corpse is made) would pay out upon ship destruction. Because let's face it, it's tough to tackle a pod if the pilot knew his ship was going down and has been mashing the warp button. Bounty hunters would actually make money for a change, and it would give pirates something to track and bragg about. Instead of the randomness of player bounties, one could bragg "Concord will pay 5 million for my destruction" - which means they have a streak of 50 kills since their last loss, or something like that. hmm, come to think of it maybe 100K isn't enough, hafta be a REALLY good pirate to be worth much. but you get the idea. I'm sure pirates would love that idea. Then they can feign an uproar when their alt unexpectedly destroys their shuttle for a cool 5 mil.. They wouldn't even lose their implants and still come out ahead. meh, most pirates i know don't fly with implants, and they still don't exploit their bounties. i'd personally rather have concrete proof of a long killing streak than a few million isk.

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