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Mad Scot
Amarr
Viziam
   |
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:05:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Mad Scot on 05/11/2006 18:06:58
 Originally by: Matori Kar
No-one in this gang is currently in a corporation that is at war.
However, be aware that if a fellow gang member's corporation does go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to attack those parties unless they attack you first.
NOTE: Attacking members of your gang is not a CONCORD
sanctioned activity and may result in security status loss and a police response.
Ther you go, its a legit tactic..
it uses the future tense Matori, if a fellow gang member's corporation does go to war.
What the issue is at the moment is gang leaders inviting warring alts/members into the gnag after the initial invite, leaving gang members liable to attack with no concord intervention. |
Matori Kar
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:07:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Mad Scot
Originally by: Matori Kar
No-one in this gang is currently in a corporation that is at war.
However, be aware that if a fellow gang member's corporation does go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to attack those parties unless they attack you first.
NOTE: Attacking members of your gang is not a CONCORD
sanctioned activity and may result in security status loss and a police response.
Ther you go, its a legit tactic..
it uses the future tense matoriu, if a fellow gang member's corporation does go to war.
What the issue is at the moment is gang leaders inviting warring alts/members into the gnag after the initial invite, leaving gang members liable to attack with no concord intervention.
I just spoke with a GM about it, and he was quite happy that Lofty does no wrong (in game rule terms)
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Mad Scot
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:10:00 -
[123]
I too have spoken to a GM, as you may have picked up am not too happy with the GM response at the mo, so am awaiting to deal with a senior GM |
Hellspawn01
Amarr
The Phantom Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:15:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Matori Kar
No-one in this gang is currently in a corporation that is at war.
However, be aware that if a fellow gang member's corporation does go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to attack those parties unless they attack you first.
NOTE: Attacking members of your gang is not a CONCORD
sanctioned activity and may result in security status loss and a police response.
Ther you go, its a legit tactic..
You cant attack them but THEY can. Why cant you?
Imo, if you are getting flagged as a war target for them then they should get flagged for you as well leaving both parties fight at will. Not one party can shoot and the other cant at first.
Ship lovers click here |
Matori Kar
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:22:00 -
[125]
The system is basically fubar and CCP cant fix it. They made up some 'catch all' message to 'cover' themselves. Sad really as the main point of an MMO is to play a game with other people. The best thing to do is to get hundreds and hundreds of people to copy the same tactic and see what happens 
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lofty29
Tolarri Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:22:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Originally by: Matori Kar
No-one in this gang is currently in a corporation that is at war.
However, be aware that if a fellow gang member's corporation does go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to attack those parties unless they attack you first.
NOTE: Attacking members of your gang is not a CONCORD
sanctioned activity and may result in security status loss and a police response.
Ther you go, its a legit tactic..
You cant attack them but THEY can. Why cant you?
Imo, if you are getting flagged as a war target for them then they should get flagged for you as well leaving both parties fight at will. Not one party can shoot and the other cant at first.
That would make a difference how? 
---
Praxiteles Inc. is Recruiting!
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Ashley Stellia
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:23:00 -
[127]
"No-one in this gang is currently in a corporation that is at war.
However, be aware that if a fellow gang member's corporation does go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to attack those parties unless they attack you first.
NOTE: Attacking members of your gang is not a CONCORD
sanctioned activity and may result in security status loss and a police response"
Know what that is describing? It is saying if you are in a gang with someone who is in a corporation that declared war on another corporation, you will be a valid war target to members of your gangmates and your gangmates enemy corporation as soon as the war period officially begins.
It is NOT describing what happens if the NPC corp leader of a gang invites 2 warring corp members into the gang after you join the gang.
At any rate, a change needs to be made. 2 Warring corps should not be able to join the same gang. Or if you were in a gang that has no warring members and then a warring member joins, a prompt should appear informing you a warring member just entered. Perhaps a 20 second timer before combat can start amongst gang members should also be implemented so that people cannot abuse the system.
The purpose of gangs is not to trick people into getting killed in high sec by their own gang members.
Gangs were made so people could join up and help eachother out.
This tactic violates both the letter and the spirit of the rules. It is wrong on all levels.
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Matori Kar
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Posted - 2006.11.05 18:24:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Matori Kar on 05/11/2006 18:29:59
Edited by: Matori Kar on 05/11/2006 18:25:59
Originally by: Ashley Stellia
"No-one in this gang is currently in a corporation that is at war.
However, be aware that if a fellow gang member's corporation does go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to attack those parties unless they attack you first.
NOTE: Attacking members of your gang is not a CONCORD
sanctioned activity and may result in security status loss and a police response"
Know what that is describing? It is saying if you are in a gang with someone who is in a corporation that declared war on another corporation, you will be a valid war target to members of your gangmates and your gangmates enemy corporation as soon as the war period officially begins.
It is NOT describing what happens if the NPC corp leader of a gang invites 2 warring corp members into the gang after you join the gang.
At any rate, a change needs to be made. 2 Warring corps should not be able to join the same gang. Or if you were in a gang that has no warring members and then a warring member joins, a prompt should appear informing you a warring member just entered. Perhaps a 20 second timer before combat can start amongst gang members should also be implemented so that people cannot abuse the system.
The purpose of gangs is not to trick people into getting killed in high sec by their own gang members.
Gangs were made so people could join up and help eachother out.
This tactic violates both the letter and the spirit of the rules. It is wrong on all levels.
True, but CCP dont give a **** 
99.9% of the people Lofty kills will just carry on, the odd one who quits in disgust is insignificant.
Edit: Hmm, there could be some iskies to be gained in hiring out alts in own corps for wardecs 
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Matrix Aran
Legio Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:25:00 -
[129]
I find it interesting that while the OP is a fan of player interaction, and helping others, he is the member of an NPC corp. Kinda hypocritical if you ask me. If you want 'safe' gang invites, join up with a corp, and help your corp/alliance mates out. Sure there's the risk of getting wardecked, but 90% of the time geting a gang invite from a corp member won't result in your death. Of course you could continue the stereotype of mission runner in NPC corp...
----
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Mad Scot
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:30:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Matrix Aran
I find it interesting that while the OP is a fan of player interaction, and helping others, he is the member of an NPC corp. Kinda hypocritical if you ask me. If you want 'safe' gang invites, join up with a corp, and help your corp/alliance mates out. Sure there's the risk of getting wardecked, but 90% of the time geting a gang invite from a corp member won't result in your death. Of course you could continue the stereotype of mission runner in NPC corp...
Matrix this has already been brought up and addressed. |
lofty29
Tolarri Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:30:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Ashley Stellia
It is NOT describing what happens if the NPC corp leader of a gang invites 2 warring corp members into the gang after you join the gang.
You win the MOST CLUELESS POST prize!!! Awarded for knowing **** all about what you're talking about!
Congratulations. You're an ass-hat!
---
Praxiteles Inc. is Recruiting!
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Ki An
Gallente
Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille
Tre Kroner
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:34:00 -
[132]
Ganging warring corps is used mostly for 1-vs-1s with your wartargets and as such has got to stay.
You cannot shoot the wartargets of your gangmates before they shoot you because if it was the other way, you could just gang all your friends in different corps and blob an opponent. Now you need to be all in the same corp to blob them :)
Hope that makes those issues clear.
/Ki
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Kirex
Gallente
Vale Heavy Industries
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:36:00 -
[133]
o/ Long time no see scot :p
Click above for my killboard stats. |
Sir Juri
Caldari
Species 5618
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:36:00 -
[134]
Originally by: lofty29
Originally by: Ashley Stellia
It is NOT describing what happens if the NPC corp leader of a gang invites 2 warring corp members into the gang after you join the gang.
You win the MOST CLUELESS POST prize!!! Awarded for knowing **** all about what you're talking about!
Congratulations. You're an ass-hat!
You calling people "ass-hat" is funny to say the least. Try not to swear so much plz, and be constructive, perhaps he had a meaning that was lost to us.
(Besides dont want a forum ban do you? I hate to not read your future posts.)
**** need to make a new sig... |
Radioactive Babe
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:42:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Ki An
Ganging warring corps is used mostly for 1-vs-1s with your wartargets and as such has got to stay.
What? .. rephrase that please, it does not make sense
Quote:
You cannot shoot the wartargets of your gangmates before they shoot you because if it was the other way, you could just gang all your friends in different corps and blob an opponent. Now you need to be all in the same corp to blob them
But do any of Loftys targets see a flashing player? (not the flashing square around them) |
Ki An
Gallente
Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille
Tre Kroner
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:48:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Radioactive Babe
Originally by: Ki An
Ganging warring corps is used mostly for 1-vs-1s with your wartargets and as such has got to stay.
What? .. rephrase that please, it does not make sense
When in a war, a common way to end it, or to just measure yourself against the wartarget that don't involve a massive fleetbattle is to invite a member of the enemy corp to a 1-vs-1 (champions of the armies). The two warp to a safespot (in gang to be able to warp to the same safespot) and dish it out.
Originally by: Radioactive Babe
Originally by: Ki An
You cannot shoot the wartargets of your gangmates before they shoot you because if it was the other way, you could just gang all your friends in different corps and blob an opponent. Now you need to be all in the same corp to blob them
But do any of Loftys targets see a flashing player? (not the flashing square around them)
I would not think so as they are not technically at war with lofty or his alts. The flashing red would indicate a valid target, and Lofty or his alts are not valid targets until they open fire on the unsuspecting player.
The point I am trying to make is not about Lofty or his tactics, but rather to explain why these mechanics are in place.
/Ki
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Deitre Cibrus
Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:49:00 -
[137]
Lofty-related posts always make my day.
Mad Scot, honestly, why would you even accept an unknown empire gang request?
-----------
Originally by: Santiago Cortes
Please don't derail your own thread.
What is this sig missing? |
Radioactive Babe
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:58:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Ki An
When in a war, a common way to end it, or to just measure yourself against the wartarget that don't involve a massive fleetbattle is to invite a member of the enemy corp to a 1-vs-1 (champions of the armies). The two warp to a safespot (in gang to be able to warp to the same safespot) and dish it out.
This happens? ... tbh I have never heard of it before .. depends on the animosity between the warring corps I suppose, and the aims of the war deccing corp |
Ashley Stellia
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:59:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Deitre Cibrus
Lofty-related posts always make my day.
Mad Scot, honestly, why would you even accept an unknown empire gang request?
Its not like he was running missions and a gang request sudedenly popped up unannounced and he clicked YES out of ignorance. A new player politely asked for help with a mission and he decided to sacrifice some of his time the help the fellow out. Little did he know that there was some twisted and convulted way of turning a simple freindly assistance into a gank squad that took 2.5b isk in assets away from him.
|
Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 19:01:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Ashley Stellia
"No-one in this gang is currently in a corporation that is at war.
However, be aware that if a fellow gang member's corporation does go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to attack those parties unless they attack you first.
NOTE: Attacking members of your gang is not a CONCORD
sanctioned activity and may result in security status loss and a police response"
Know what that is describing? It is saying if you are in a gang with someone who is in a corporation that declared war on another corporation, you will be a valid war target to members of your gangmates and your gangmates enemy corporation as soon as the war period officially begins.
It is NOT describing what happens if the NPC corp leader of a gang invites 2 warring corp members into the gang after you join the gang.
At any rate, a change needs to be made. 2 Warring corps should not be able to join the same gang. Or if you were in a gang that has no warring members and then a warring member joins, a prompt should appear informing you a warring member just entered. Perhaps a 20 second timer before combat can start amongst gang members should also be implemented so that people cannot abuse the system.
The purpose of gangs is not to trick people into getting killed in high sec by their own gang members.
Gangs were made so people could join up and help eachother out.
This tactic violates both the letter and the spirit of the rules. It is wrong on all levels.
So you people are seriously trying to tell us that because of the wording, you could not work out that you would be at risk if anyone new entering the gang was at war?
No, really, I'm having difficulty believing your argument is serious.
Did you think that that only applied to your character? That nobody else in game got the same warning or operated under the same rules?
Or did you simply not think?
Ahhh...
|
Mad Scot
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 19:01:00 -
[141]
for once i thought id help out a newb. |
Deitre Cibrus
Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 19:03:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Ashley Stellia
Originally by: Deitre Cibrus
Lofty-related posts always make my day.
Mad Scot, honestly, why would you even accept an unknown empire gang request?
Its not like he was running missions and a gang request sudedenly popped up unannounced and he clicked YES out of ignorance. A new player politely asked for help with a mission and he decided to sacrifice some of his time the help the fellow out. Little did he know that there was some twisted and convulted way of turning a simple freindly assistance into a gank squad that took 2.5b isk in assets away from him.
He could've noticed that another player joined the gang.
-----------
Originally by: Santiago Cortes
Please don't derail your own thread.
What is this sig missing? |
Mad Scot
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 19:04:00 -
[143]
the other gang member must have joined just after I got there as there was no members other than me and the noob in gang initially, so I had no time to react |
Sir Juri
Caldari
Species 5618
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 19:07:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Mad Scot
for once i thought id help out a newb.
Oh well m8, I for one hope you dont stop dooing that because of this. Try be more carefull and hope like me they improve the warning message system, so atleast the one accepting invite could have known.
Then its allright if it keeps happening but a clear warning is not to much to ask for, right?- everyone that is flaming.
**** need to make a new sig... |
Itoz
Gallente
Shiva
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 19:07:00 -
[145]
Only trust your corp. Only gang with corp. If you don't have a corp trust no one.
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Mad Scot
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 19:10:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Sir Juri
Originally by: Mad Scot
for once i thought id help out a newb.
Oh well m8, I for one hope you dont stop dooing that because of this.
At the minute assuming I stay I cant say ill help out any newbs for a long time |
Hellspawn01
Amarr
The Phantom Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 19:11:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Deitre Cibrus
Originally by: Ashley Stellia
Originally by: Deitre Cibrus
Lofty-related posts always make my day.
Mad Scot, honestly, why would you even accept an unknown empire gang request?
Its not like he was running missions and a gang request sudedenly popped up unannounced and he clicked YES out of ignorance. A new player politely asked for help with a mission and he decided to sacrifice some of his time the help the fellow out. Little did he know that there was some twisted and convulted way of turning a simple freindly assistance into a gank squad that took 2.5b isk in assets away from him.
He could've noticed that another player joined the gang.
It takes some seconds to check this new gang mates corp and if he is at any war and in that time, you¦re already jammed and half dead.
Ranger 1, his arguments are very clear and serious. Maybe you should read them again if you havent understood them fully.
Ship lovers click here |
Futuri
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 19:16:00 -
[148]
I fail to see how tanking Concord is an exploit but avoiding Concord response whatsoever by bugged game mechanics, without giving the victim any chance to react, is not. The GM stance on this must be changed.
And I don't blame lofty for doing this (someone has to educate the uneducated :P), I blame CCP for adopting a retarded policy that hurts the game and punishes group play and helping other players.
In fact, what we should do, everyone should make those noob corp alts and the moment someone asks for help in Rookie Help/NPC Corp Chat, invite that person and gank him using this beautiful "not-an-exploit". I bet it will get fixed in 1 day.
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Thousand Fluffles
Off Balance Sheet Entity
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 19:17:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Arktaos
The basic rule of eve.
There is no "safe space".
There is also no trust.
You don't put billions of ISK of equipment on the line for someone you have never met before, unless they have paid you a load of money, or you have adequate backup in case of a double-cross. Quite how anyone commits those kinds of resources to assist someone who is just a new name in a chat channel, I have no idea. It's just being reckless.
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.11.05 19:18:00 -
[150]
I understood the situation clearly months and months ago, perhaps you need to catch up on current events. 
I simply find it hard to believe that he could not make the logical assumption that the warning also means if anyone new enters the gang the same rules apply.
Actually, if he was in warp to the noob when the new members joined, no matter what the wording the outcome would have been the same unless he immediately left the gang.
This is a silly and pointless rehashing of issues resolved long ago.
Accepting gang invites from strangers has its risks, it always has and hopefully always will.
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