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Grinkur
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.07 16:50:00 -
[1]
This might be a stupid question but, are there any plans to balance existing ships?
If the Megathron is now suposed to be the Gallente sniper ship it needs some tweaks to be able to compete with the rock. Same holds true for Amarr and Minnie ships.
Lets look at the Mega vs Rokh for instance:
With the latest changes to spike ammo, a Meatrhon has a max range of about 182km. Rock has 250km.
The damage bonus in the Megathron is completely offset by the shield resistance bonus in the Rock.
The Megathron's 125 m3 drone bay is useless at long ranges.
So, what are we supposed to do?
Fit a MWD and try to get to under 50km to use antimatter?
Warp out when we see a Rokh?
Train Caldary Battleship to at least level 4 an buy a Rokh? It should not be a problem, as it only takes a few days but it is a pity that several battleships would be completely useless for fleet combat due to one ship. Plus it is easy to cross train if you are gallente but it takes longer if you are amarr or minnie specced.
Possible solutions could be:
Reduce spike ammo damage and increase its range. Make it so Megathrons can get same range/damage with T2 ammo than Rock with T1. Rokh could still use t2 spike ammo with no tracking enhancers to get same range than Mega with 3 TE II.
or
Reduce maximum locking range to 200km
or
Completely cripple the Rocks grid so it can fit only 350mm (seems unfair to me) (Yes, i know that it already needs a PDU to fit the 425mm)
or
Increase fallof of large guns by a lot and make tracking computers and tracking enhancers affet fallof, so at least we could reach out to 250km with other battleships, only just doing less damage.
Or
... any other ideas?
Please, do not flame, try to keep this constructive. I understand that Caldari should be very good at long ranges. It just need to be balanced, not completely overpowered.
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Peppy LePew
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:06:00 -
[2]
Megathron is supposed to a be a sniper? Seems not so, according to it's bonuses. I understand it's intent was to be a Blaster platform... which seems more appropriate. Damage, not range, and all that.
Rokh does less damage already.. I don't see a big problem. Mega is also a lower "tier" which are supposed to be slightly less capable, no? And you're right Caldari are supposed to be the snipers, their ships just generally suck at it because range doesn't compensate for lack of damage (until Kali, maybe  ).
Maybe blasters need improvement but that's a different tale altogether.
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Grinkur
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:22:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Grinkur on 07/11/2006 17:24:40
 Originally by: Peppy LePew
Megathron is supposed to a be a sniper? Seems not so, according to it's bonuses. I understand it's intent was to be a Blaster platform... which seems more appropriate. Damage, not range, and all that.
Rokh does less damage already.. I don't see a big problem. Mega is also a lower "tier" which are supposed to be slightly less capable, no? And you're right Caldari are supposed to be the snipers, their ships just generally suck at it because range doesn't compensate for lack of damage (until Kali, maybe ).
Maybe blasters need improvement but that's a different tale altogether.
Well, you are right, but the Mega is used in fleet combat right now and the Hyperion is supposed to be a blaster boat (more agile, less lockin range), so the Mega must be the long range combat ship.
The lack of damage that you mention is in general compensated by better resistances, so the Megathron 25% damage bonus is offset by the Rokh 25% shield resistance. The numbers are posted somewhere else on this forums and if you compare the damage that goes through after resistance the Rokh is doing more damage than what it receives.
The problem is that the Rock can fight at extreme ranges that no other battleship can reach.
As for tier 2 being worst than tier 3 i thought that the devs stated somewhere that tier 3 was supposed to be different, not better than tier 2.
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Xianthar
Sha Kharn Corp
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:37:00 -
[4]
?
mega is one of the best fleet BS atm (mega + temp)
mega in fleet setup gets over 200km optimal.
i'm confused....your mad that now there are 4 good fleet bs instead of 2?
-xian
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:43:00 -
[5]
actually the problem is that there will be just 1 good fleet BS...
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NoNameNewbie
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.11.07 19:03:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ath Amon
actually the problem is that there will be just 1 good fleet BS...
the actual problem is that ppl think they are forced to engage at 250km ...
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Grinkur
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.07 19:14:00 -
[7]
Originally by: NoNameNewbie
Originally by: Ath Amon
actually the problem is that there will be just 1 good fleet BS...
the actual problem is that ppl think they are forced to engage at 250km ...
Rokh can shoot up to 250km while the others can only shoot up to 180 (new T2 spniping ammo range bonus is 180%, not 200% anymore). So Rock will allways be in its optimal while the others have to pray that the other fleet is at 180km or closer to be able to hit.
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Christopher Dalran
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Posted - 2006.11.07 19:55:00 -
[8]
Mega is was and alwayse will be a blaster boat, trust me you DONT want your heavy drones flying much further than 30km or it takes forever and a day to get to the target and start firing (and your losting around 500ish dps simply by not using your t2 heavies) and you realy want to be able to take full advantage of your opponents weak resist with a nice juicy barrage of torpedoes.
Also DONT concern yourself with 1v1 long range slug fests between lone battleships, in these situation you just leave the area and there isint a thing they can do about it. The reason for sniping should be gangwarfare (gate/staion sniping outside sentrys should not realy happen anymore with hp increase and warp to 0 added) and then there would realy be no reason to need to shoot past your locking range. You push your range out to max so that you can sit back and neglect your tanking ability for damage/tracking mods and max locking on battleships will be enough to put you outside most firing ranges (have someone up close slap a damper on anyone that can target you). I realy dont see the need to sit at 250km as opposed to 182km
The mega is just soooooo good at close up combat that its almoast a sin to use it at long ranges.
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Grinkur
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.07 20:19:00 -
[9]
I agree with some of your points, but look at the topic title. I am talking about fleet combat, not 1v1 not gate camping.
I live in 0.0 where you don't have to tank sentry guns and you can sit at 50km with a Megatrhon with 425mm railgus and AM or Javeling ammo, so i can't comment on other snipping styles.
In fleet combat range does matter.
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Ruze
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.07 20:34:00 -
[10]
Fleet combat, one-on-one, small gangs, pirating, missioning ...
Any change to any ship has to address all of these principles. And not all ships are made specifically for player-versus-player.
Just thought I'd throw that out there ...
Genesis Project |
Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2006.11.07 20:58:00 -
[11]
Damage/Range comparison for T2 Snipers in Kali
Its been argued to death by the players and so far the only solution is to train for a Rokh. If Kali goes in without changes everyone will just get used to the idea that if you want to participate in fleet engagements you pretty much have to have a Rokh, just like how you pretty much have to have T2 turrets now.
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Grinkur
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.07 21:05:00 -
[12]
bad for players, but good for the business, that is unles some frustrated players quit the game because all their skills suddendly become useless with a patch.
It takes less time and money to keep an existing customer than to obtain one and ccp has allways been proud of its comunity.
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