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DutchFusion
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:11:00 -
[1]
[16:48:36] DutchFusion > yes [16:48:49] NEWHOME1 > that is my [16:48:58] NEWHOME1 > stop,ok? [16:49:10] DutchFusion > 500 thousand isk [16:49:16] DutchFusion > otherwise i take it [16:49:19] NEWHOME1 > ok [16:50:41] DutchFusion > thank you [16:50:57] NEWHOME1 > Receive [16:50:59] NEWHOME1 > ? [16:51:31] DutchFusion > yes [16:52:58] NEWHOME1 > If you want some ISKs, can say with me [16:53:12] DutchFusion > i have enough [16:54:19] NEWHOME1 > Hereafter also similar [16:54:36] DutchFusion > ok [16:54:40] DutchFusion > i will leave now [16:55:17] DutchFusion > which country are you from? [16:55:57] NEWHOME1 > I am Chinese, and you? [16:56:16] DutchFusion > holland, do you do this as a job? [16:58:02] NEWHOME1 > Yes, but your yonder person dislike this very much, [16:58:52] NEWHOME1 > But this is also a kind of demand, mutual demand [16:59:08] DutchFusion > yes, i will not steal from you any more [16:59:23] DutchFusion > you do not like the job, or the people stealing from you? [17:00:56] NEWHOME1 > I am a student, this work is my part-time [17:01:16] DutchFusion > ah i see, i am also student, what do you study? [17:02:46] NEWHOME1 > The automobile sell [17:03:35] DutchFusion > nice, you will be rich later [17:03:53] NEWHOME1 > and Park art [17:04:08] NEWHOME1 > thanks [17:04:39] NEWHOME1 > i'm sorry .my english not very good [17:04:54] DutchFusion > it is very good, better then my chinese :-) [17:05:18] NEWHOME1 > hehe [17:06:11] DutchFusion > I work at airport part time, i see lots of chinese people here, very rich people, they fly to beijing and guangzhou [17:06:18] DutchFusion > dont know if thats how you spell it [17:07:54] DutchFusion > I have to go now. Have to eat, good luck with your study's
I was flying around to heckle some miners, and found a macro miner, there were around 5 barges mining with 1 hauler, turns out they are all controlled by this one guy.
I found it a nice conversation, i dont care much about macro miners, i just have fun on my own. Did feel kinda bad for the guy, but allas hes working part time.
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Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:26:00 -
[2]
Well, I certainly hope CCP bans all the accounts this guy is using... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:32:00 -
[3]
Well this is soon to be locked, as posting chat logs isnt allowed. Also, hes not a macro miner. A macro miner is someone who uses macros, and often goes afk. This guy obviously wasnt afk. You can have 5 barges mining, with one hauler - you need 6 accounts and a computer which can run them. Simple enough.
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Neveren
Caldari Setenta Corp Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:33:00 -
[4]
its not a macro miner, if there is a person controling them.
at my prime i was controling 8 accounts simutaniously without any problems mining.
Unless hes macroing the other accounts, and just playing the hauler.. then hes in the right to Mine etc..
now, if hes selling isk.. then thats a different story
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elbenito
Battlestars Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:34:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Bhaal Well, I certainly hope CCP bans all the accounts this guy is using...
Indeed. This fellow certainly seemed friendly enough, and I'm sure most macros aren't in fact bad people. However, violations to the EULA need to be *****ed down upon, and buyers gone after even more than the sellers. Eliminate the market for farmed ISK, the income source and thus the motivation for people in countries with low incomes to farm as a job disappears.
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Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:36:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 07/11/2006 17:38:08
Whether hes a nice or not doesnt matter, hes violating the eula, get his ass banned. -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:39:00 -
[7]
Not a macro miner, but an obvious "Chinese Gold Farmer"... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
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Phyrr
Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Waxau Well this is soon to be locked, as posting chat logs isnt allowed. Also, hes not a macro miner. A macro miner is someone who uses macros, and often goes afk. This guy obviously wasnt afk. You can have 5 barges mining, with one hauler - you need 6 accounts and a computer which can run them. Simple enough.
As someone who has ganked that hauler I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that he farms and macros.
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Vera Okior
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:42:00 -
[9]
I have had several similar conversations with ISK farmers in Great Wildlands. They sit in Ravens 23 hours a day ratting. Judging by differing levels of understanding english, it can safely be assumed that there are different people playing the toon at different times. They are nice enough guys working for their money but it is still a detriment to the game economy.
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Phyrr
Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:46:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Phyrr on 07/11/2006 17:46:09 Also I'd like to add that the terms "macro" and "farmer" are usually one and the same thing. Whenever a macro op is disrupted it becomes a farmer op until the disruption stops for a while. Farming and Macroing are done by the same parties dependant on what they can get away with. There have been times when a macro hauler has been macroing that ive ganked....for the next few days he was a "farmer". Once I left the system for a while he returned to macroing. These 2 groups are rarely separate actions as both methods are used relevant to the situation.
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Denholm Shirer
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:54:00 -
[11]
Farming isn't a crime, surely? As long as no macros are being used and it's just a matter of sweatshop labourers farming the game and then using GTCs (not ebay) to convert ISK to real money, this is all fine by CCP as far as I understand things.
Obviously if he is using macros, this is a different matter. But if he's just taking advantage of different labour values in China versus much of the developed world - the fact that his time is effectively worth less to him than ours is to us - then surely it's not actually against the EULA? And the problem is that while it's easy to spot an ISK farmer, proving macro use is harder. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 07/11/2006 17:38:08
Whether hes a nice or not doesnt matter, hes violating the eula, get his ass banned.
Erm... how is he violating the EULA? He's playing... not macroing.
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Leianna
Entropy Tech.
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Denholm Shirer Farming isn't a crime, surely? As long as no macros are being used and it's just a matter of sweatshop labourers farming the game and then using GTCs (not ebay) to convert ISK to real money, this is all fine by CCP as far as I understand things.
Obviously if he is using macros, this is a different matter. But if he's just taking advantage of different labour values in China versus much of the developed world - the fact that his time is effectively worth less to him than ours is to us - then surely it's not actually against the EULA? And the problem is that while it's easy to spot an ISK farmer, proving macro use is harder. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Please, explain to me HOW you convert ISK into real currency without breaching the EULA.
======================== Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups. |
Gone'Postal
Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:03:00 -
[14]
Use isk to buy GTC sell GTC for RL cash over intraweb.
Since the sale of GTC on interweb can't be inforced by CCP and the sale of GTC for isk is permitted. Easy RL cash.
The man without a face... The company without a clue. |
Leianna
Entropy Tech.
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:11:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gone'Postal Use isk to buy GTC sell GTC for RL cash over intraweb.
Since the sale of GTC on interweb can't be inforced by CCP and the sale of GTC for isk is permitted. Easy RL cash.
So the sale of GTC's for real life profit, through 3rd party vendors, is approved by CCP, and you wont get banned at all?
======================== Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups. |
Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:40:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 07/11/2006 18:41:17 I highly doubt it's approved. But... technically speaking... there's no way for them to prove it. Doesn't make it right... but there it is.
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Leianna
Entropy Tech.
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:47:00 -
[17]
So, he would be in fact breaching the EULA, and deserves to be banned. All you people that say he isnt a macro because he talks are just friggin funny. If you understand how these people play, you would know that 9 times out of 10 they ARE running macro programs for the miners (farmers) and running the hauler themselves. I used to play Lineage II, and there, you would have farmers running macro programs but they would sit near the screen in case a GM was to enter private message to verify that a human was actually there. Just because they respond does by NO means prove they are not a macro user.
======================== Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups. |
Strak Yogorn
Amarr Mythical Ops The Scandinavian Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Neveren
now, if hes selling isk.. then thats a different story
why else would it be his part time JOB ... obviously not for the fun of playing a game ...
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DarknessInc
Minmatar Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:54:00 -
[19]
this is how I see it
Its fine to have 2 accounts, 1 mining and 1 hauling. Or maybe 2 miners and 1 hauler account if you system can handle it
But anything after 3+ miners and a hauler controlled by one person I will see as farming/macro and I attack. My ganketor (covetor) is efficient at killing macros. Especially when they think my Ore is a gift ___________________ I love you -Cortes I love him more -Suvetar I love him the most -Oveur Back off he's mine. All Mine --Eris
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Strak Yogorn
Amarr Mythical Ops The Scandinavian Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Taram Caldar
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 07/11/2006 17:38:08
Whether hes a nice or not doesnt matter, hes violating the eula, get his ass banned.
Erm... how is he violating the EULA? He's playing... not macroing.
account sharing is a violation as well.. and farmers/macroers are online something that looks like 23/7/365 ...
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Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:59:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Leianna So, he would be in fact breaching the EULA, and deserves to be banned. All you people that say he isnt a macro because he talks are just friggin funny. If you understand how these people play, you would know that 9 times out of 10 they ARE running macro programs for the miners (farmers) and running the hauler themselves. I used to play Lineage II, and there, you would have farmers running macro programs but they would sit near the screen in case a GM was to enter private message to verify that a human was actually there. Just because they respond does by NO means prove they are not a macro user.
But is he breaching the EULA? I'll be honest... I don't know it verbatim. It may be a violation. Can you point it out though? Because I honestly don't know. Assuming that he is breaching the EULA and assuming you can prove he is reselling GTC's for money (which you can't) yes... he should be banned.
Problem is the 2nd part. Even if he's breaching the EULA there's no way to prove whether he is or not. Because there's no way for CCP to track whether he's re-selling GTC's or not. Now... granted... per the EULA CCP can probably just ban the guy if they so desire... but it's not generally a good idea to do something like that unless you can prove it pretty conclusively. Back in EQ we had a huge burden of proof to meet in order to justify even a suspension... much less a ban. Heck... even just giving a player a warning took some pretty significant documentation.
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Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.11.07 19:02:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Strak Yogorn
Originally by: Taram Caldar
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 07/11/2006 17:38:08
Whether hes a nice or not doesnt matter, hes violating the eula, get his ass banned.
Erm... how is he violating the EULA? He's playing... not macroing.
account sharing is a violation as well.. and farmers/macroers are online something that looks like 23/7/365 ...
Not talking about farmers/macroers here. Talking about this one guy:
How do we know for a fact he's a 'macro'er' or that he's selling ISK for money or that he's even reselling GTCs? All he said is that 'playing EVE' is a part time job. He could even have been joking.
All I'm saying is it's not our (the players) place to decide whether a ban is appropriate or not. It's up to CCP. I hate macro miners and farmers as much as the next person. They ruin game economies and they make it very hard on new players.
But lets not break out the lynch mob and dunking booth just yet.
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HostageTaker
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.07 19:06:00 -
[23]
I've done some macro miner hunting in the past, with success too I might add. Here is a screenshot from almost a year ago of one case.
Macro Miner spills info and gets banned
*I try to use very basic english with these guys once I see that they have trouble understanding. Anyways, report every macrominer people, file exploit and harassment petitons if you get them talking about their operation/job.
Support your EvE community.
>>> EvE-Online Wallpapers <<< |
Leianna
Entropy Tech.
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Posted - 2006.11.07 20:24:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Leianna on 07/11/2006 20:25:52
Originally by: Taram Caldar
Originally by: Leianna So, he would be in fact breaching the EULA, and deserves to be banned. All you people that say he isnt a macro because he talks are just friggin funny. If you understand how these people play, you would know that 9 times out of 10 they ARE running macro programs for the miners (farmers) and running the hauler themselves. I used to play Lineage II, and there, you would have farmers running macro programs but they would sit near the screen in case a GM was to enter private message to verify that a human was actually there. Just because they respond does by NO means prove they are not a macro user.
But is he breaching the EULA? I'll be honest... I don't know it verbatim. It may be a violation. Can you point it out though? Because I honestly don't know. Assuming that he is breaching the EULA and assuming you can prove he is reselling GTC's for money (which you can't) yes... he should be banned.
Problem is the 2nd part. Even if he's breaching the EULA there's no way to prove whether he is or not. Because there's no way for CCP to track whether he's re-selling GTC's or not. Now... granted... per the EULA CCP can probably just ban the guy if they so desire... but it's not generally a good idea to do something like that unless you can prove it pretty conclusively. Back in EQ we had a huge burden of proof to meet in order to justify even a suspension... much less a ban. Heck... even just giving a player a warning took some pretty significant documentation.
Selling drugs is illegal no matter who can prove it or not. Just because CCP, or any player, cannot physically prove they are selling in-game items or using a macro program, does not mean they shouldnt be banned. Honestly, CCP does not have to prove you are using a 3rd party program before you get banned, but like you said, its not a good idea given lack of solid proof. The facts of the matter remain: -Players DO use macro programs -Players DO sell in-game items for RL currency -Players DO breach the EULA every single day and they should ALL be banned immediately. Lack of proof does not make a guilty party innocent.
======================== Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups. |
Gone'Postal
Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2006.11.07 20:44:00 -
[25]
Selling drugs is illegal no matter who can prove it or not. Just because CCP, or any player, cannot physically prove they are selling in-game items or using a macro program, does not mean they shouldnt be banned. Honestly, CCP does not have to prove you are using a 3rd party program before you get banned, but like you said, its not a good idea given lack of solid proof. The facts of the matter remain: -Players DO use macro programs -Players DO sell in-game items for RL currency -Players DO breach the EULA every single day and they should ALL be banned immediately. Lack of proof does not make a guilty party innocent.
Ok i'll follow your thinking. CCP please ban everyone. Without proof EVERYONE is guilty, there are no innocent players. I also thank god your not a high court judge... You would screw over everyone.
The man without a face... The company without a clue. |
Dahak2150
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Posted - 2006.11.07 20:46:00 -
[26]
Originally by: HostageTaker I've done some macro miner hunting in the past, with success too I might add. Here is a screenshot from almost a year ago of one case.
Macro Miner spills info and gets banned
*I try to use very basic english with these guys once I see that they have trouble understanding. Anyways, report every macrominer people, file exploit and harassment petitons if you get them talking about their operation/job.
Support your EvE community.
Hmmm, catch more flies with honey than vinegar....
You sir, are devious. ---------- My sig is boring. |
Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.11.07 20:54:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Leianna Edited by: Leianna on 07/11/2006 20:25:52
Originally by: Taram Caldar
Originally by: Leianna So, he would be in fact breaching the EULA, and deserves to be banned. All you people that say he isnt a macro because he talks are just friggin funny. If you understand how these people play, you would know that 9 times out of 10 they ARE running macro programs for the miners (farmers) and running the hauler themselves. I used to play Lineage II, and there, you would have farmers running macro programs but they would sit near the screen in case a GM was to enter private message to verify that a human was actually there. Just because they respond does by NO means prove they are not a macro user.
But is he breaching the EULA? I'll be honest... I don't know it verbatim. It may be a violation. Can you point it out though? Because I honestly don't know. Assuming that he is breaching the EULA and assuming you can prove he is reselling GTC's for money (which you can't) yes... he should be banned.
Problem is the 2nd part. Even if he's breaching the EULA there's no way to prove whether he is or not. Because there's no way for CCP to track whether he's re-selling GTC's or not. Now... granted... per the EULA CCP can probably just ban the guy if they so desire... but it's not generally a good idea to do something like that unless you can prove it pretty conclusively. Back in EQ we had a huge burden of proof to meet in order to justify even a suspension... much less a ban. Heck... even just giving a player a warning took some pretty significant documentation.
Selling drugs is illegal no matter who can prove it or not. Just because CCP, or any player, cannot physically prove they are selling in-game items or using a macro program, does not mean they shouldnt be banned. Honestly, CCP does not have to prove you are using a 3rd party program before you get banned, but like you said, its not a good idea given lack of solid proof. The facts of the matter remain: -Players DO use macro programs -Players DO sell in-game items for RL currency -Players DO breach the EULA every single day and they should ALL be banned immediately. Lack of proof does not make a guilty party innocent.
I'm very glad I don't live in your world.... Guilty until proven innocent? Sounds pretty hellish to me. Just because "players do" doesn't mean a particular player is. There is a burden of proof in civilized society.
Like I said. I don't like it. And I don't agree with it. But it's not up to you or me to decide who gets banned or not. That's CCP's responsibility and more power to them. I've been on that side of the fence and it's not fun to have to make those calls.
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Leianna
Entropy Tech.
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Posted - 2006.11.07 20:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Gone'Postal Selling drugs is illegal no matter who can prove it or not. Just because CCP, or any player, cannot physically prove they are selling in-game items or using a macro program, does not mean they shouldnt be banned. Honestly, CCP does not have to prove you are using a 3rd party program before you get banned, but like you said, its not a good idea given lack of solid proof. The facts of the matter remain: -Players DO use macro programs -Players DO sell in-game items for RL currency -Players DO breach the EULA every single day and they should ALL be banned immediately. Lack of proof does not make a guilty party innocent.
Ok i'll follow your thinking. CCP please ban everyone. Without proof EVERYONE is guilty, there are no innocent players. I also thank god your not a high court judge... You would screw over everyone.
Obviously you didnt catch what my point was. These players ARE breaking rules, and even though the proof is limited or non-existant as of yet, the fact remains that they are STILL DOING IT.
I did not say EVERYONE is guilty until proven innocent. I merely stated that the "actual" guilty parties are not innocent just due to the lack of proof.
======================== Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups. |
Leianna
Entropy Tech.
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Posted - 2006.11.07 20:57:00 -
[29]
Taram, read my above post, as it applies to you as well.
======================== Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups. |
Gone'Postal
Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2006.11.07 21:02:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Gone''Postal on 07/11/2006 21:05:17 But having "proof" is what makes them guilty.
Proof convicts, Proof gets the ban, Proof keeps the account banned.
Without proof it's speculation and that ain't worth nothing.
To carry on saying people are doing something either there not, or you can't prove that they are is harrasment. and that while suck's is easier to prove in Eve
The man without a face... The company without a clue. |
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