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DutchFusion
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:11:00 -
[1]
[16:48:36] DutchFusion > yes [16:48:49] NEWHOME1 > that is my [16:48:58] NEWHOME1 > stop,ok? [16:49:10] DutchFusion > 500 thousand isk [16:49:16] DutchFusion > otherwise i take it [16:49:19] NEWHOME1 > ok [16:50:41] DutchFusion > thank you [16:50:57] NEWHOME1 > Receive [16:50:59] NEWHOME1 > ? [16:51:31] DutchFusion > yes [16:52:58] NEWHOME1 > If you want some ISKs, can say with me [16:53:12] DutchFusion > i have enough [16:54:19] NEWHOME1 > Hereafter also similar [16:54:36] DutchFusion > ok [16:54:40] DutchFusion > i will leave now [16:55:17] DutchFusion > which country are you from? [16:55:57] NEWHOME1 > I am Chinese, and you? [16:56:16] DutchFusion > holland, do you do this as a job? [16:58:02] NEWHOME1 > Yes, but your yonder person dislike this very much, [16:58:52] NEWHOME1 > But this is also a kind of demand, mutual demand [16:59:08] DutchFusion > yes, i will not steal from you any more [16:59:23] DutchFusion > you do not like the job, or the people stealing from you? [17:00:56] NEWHOME1 > I am a student, this work is my part-time [17:01:16] DutchFusion > ah i see, i am also student, what do you study? [17:02:46] NEWHOME1 > The automobile sell [17:03:35] DutchFusion > nice, you will be rich later [17:03:53] NEWHOME1 > and Park art [17:04:08] NEWHOME1 > thanks [17:04:39] NEWHOME1 > i'm sorry .my english not very good [17:04:54] DutchFusion > it is very good, better then my chinese :-) [17:05:18] NEWHOME1 > hehe [17:06:11] DutchFusion > I work at airport part time, i see lots of chinese people here, very rich people, they fly to beijing and guangzhou [17:06:18] DutchFusion > dont know if thats how you spell it [17:07:54] DutchFusion > I have to go now. Have to eat, good luck with your study's
I was flying around to heckle some miners, and found a macro miner, there were around 5 barges mining with 1 hauler, turns out they are all controlled by this one guy.
I found it a nice conversation, i dont care much about macro miners, i just have fun on my own. Did feel kinda bad for the guy, but allas hes working part time.
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Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:26:00 -
[2]
Well, I certainly hope CCP bans all the accounts this guy is using... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:32:00 -
[3]
Well this is soon to be locked, as posting chat logs isnt allowed. Also, hes not a macro miner. A macro miner is someone who uses macros, and often goes afk. This guy obviously wasnt afk. You can have 5 barges mining, with one hauler - you need 6 accounts and a computer which can run them. Simple enough.
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Neveren
Caldari Setenta Corp Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:33:00 -
[4]
its not a macro miner, if there is a person controling them.
at my prime i was controling 8 accounts simutaniously without any problems mining.
Unless hes macroing the other accounts, and just playing the hauler.. then hes in the right to Mine etc..
now, if hes selling isk.. then thats a different story
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elbenito
Battlestars Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:34:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Bhaal Well, I certainly hope CCP bans all the accounts this guy is using...
Indeed. This fellow certainly seemed friendly enough, and I'm sure most macros aren't in fact bad people. However, violations to the EULA need to be *****ed down upon, and buyers gone after even more than the sellers. Eliminate the market for farmed ISK, the income source and thus the motivation for people in countries with low incomes to farm as a job disappears.
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Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:36:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 07/11/2006 17:38:08
Whether hes a nice or not doesnt matter, hes violating the eula, get his ass banned. -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:39:00 -
[7]
Not a macro miner, but an obvious "Chinese Gold Farmer"... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
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Phyrr
Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Waxau Well this is soon to be locked, as posting chat logs isnt allowed. Also, hes not a macro miner. A macro miner is someone who uses macros, and often goes afk. This guy obviously wasnt afk. You can have 5 barges mining, with one hauler - you need 6 accounts and a computer which can run them. Simple enough.
As someone who has ganked that hauler I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that he farms and macros.
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Vera Okior
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:42:00 -
[9]
I have had several similar conversations with ISK farmers in Great Wildlands. They sit in Ravens 23 hours a day ratting. Judging by differing levels of understanding english, it can safely be assumed that there are different people playing the toon at different times. They are nice enough guys working for their money but it is still a detriment to the game economy.
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Phyrr
Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:46:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Phyrr on 07/11/2006 17:46:09 Also I'd like to add that the terms "macro" and "farmer" are usually one and the same thing. Whenever a macro op is disrupted it becomes a farmer op until the disruption stops for a while. Farming and Macroing are done by the same parties dependant on what they can get away with. There have been times when a macro hauler has been macroing that ive ganked....for the next few days he was a "farmer". Once I left the system for a while he returned to macroing. These 2 groups are rarely separate actions as both methods are used relevant to the situation.
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Denholm Shirer
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:54:00 -
[11]
Farming isn't a crime, surely? As long as no macros are being used and it's just a matter of sweatshop labourers farming the game and then using GTCs (not ebay) to convert ISK to real money, this is all fine by CCP as far as I understand things.
Obviously if he is using macros, this is a different matter. But if he's just taking advantage of different labour values in China versus much of the developed world - the fact that his time is effectively worth less to him than ours is to us - then surely it's not actually against the EULA? And the problem is that while it's easy to spot an ISK farmer, proving macro use is harder. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.11.07 17:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 07/11/2006 17:38:08
Whether hes a nice or not doesnt matter, hes violating the eula, get his ass banned.
Erm... how is he violating the EULA? He's playing... not macroing.
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Leianna
Entropy Tech.
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Denholm Shirer Farming isn't a crime, surely? As long as no macros are being used and it's just a matter of sweatshop labourers farming the game and then using GTCs (not ebay) to convert ISK to real money, this is all fine by CCP as far as I understand things.
Obviously if he is using macros, this is a different matter. But if he's just taking advantage of different labour values in China versus much of the developed world - the fact that his time is effectively worth less to him than ours is to us - then surely it's not actually against the EULA? And the problem is that while it's easy to spot an ISK farmer, proving macro use is harder. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Please, explain to me HOW you convert ISK into real currency without breaching the EULA.
======================== Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups. |
Gone'Postal
Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:03:00 -
[14]
Use isk to buy GTC sell GTC for RL cash over intraweb.
Since the sale of GTC on interweb can't be inforced by CCP and the sale of GTC for isk is permitted. Easy RL cash.
The man without a face... The company without a clue. |
Leianna
Entropy Tech.
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:11:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gone'Postal Use isk to buy GTC sell GTC for RL cash over intraweb.
Since the sale of GTC on interweb can't be inforced by CCP and the sale of GTC for isk is permitted. Easy RL cash.
So the sale of GTC's for real life profit, through 3rd party vendors, is approved by CCP, and you wont get banned at all?
======================== Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups. |
Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:40:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 07/11/2006 18:41:17 I highly doubt it's approved. But... technically speaking... there's no way for them to prove it. Doesn't make it right... but there it is.
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Leianna
Entropy Tech.
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:47:00 -
[17]
So, he would be in fact breaching the EULA, and deserves to be banned. All you people that say he isnt a macro because he talks are just friggin funny. If you understand how these people play, you would know that 9 times out of 10 they ARE running macro programs for the miners (farmers) and running the hauler themselves. I used to play Lineage II, and there, you would have farmers running macro programs but they would sit near the screen in case a GM was to enter private message to verify that a human was actually there. Just because they respond does by NO means prove they are not a macro user.
======================== Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups. |
Strak Yogorn
Amarr Mythical Ops The Scandinavian Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Neveren
now, if hes selling isk.. then thats a different story
why else would it be his part time JOB ... obviously not for the fun of playing a game ...
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DarknessInc
Minmatar Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:54:00 -
[19]
this is how I see it
Its fine to have 2 accounts, 1 mining and 1 hauling. Or maybe 2 miners and 1 hauler account if you system can handle it
But anything after 3+ miners and a hauler controlled by one person I will see as farming/macro and I attack. My ganketor (covetor) is efficient at killing macros. Especially when they think my Ore is a gift ___________________ I love you -Cortes I love him more -Suvetar I love him the most -Oveur Back off he's mine. All Mine --Eris
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Strak Yogorn
Amarr Mythical Ops The Scandinavian Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Taram Caldar
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 07/11/2006 17:38:08
Whether hes a nice or not doesnt matter, hes violating the eula, get his ass banned.
Erm... how is he violating the EULA? He's playing... not macroing.
account sharing is a violation as well.. and farmers/macroers are online something that looks like 23/7/365 ...
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Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.11.07 18:59:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Leianna So, he would be in fact breaching the EULA, and deserves to be banned. All you people that say he isnt a macro because he talks are just friggin funny. If you understand how these people play, you would know that 9 times out of 10 they ARE running macro programs for the miners (farmers) and running the hauler themselves. I used to play Lineage II, and there, you would have farmers running macro programs but they would sit near the screen in case a GM was to enter private message to verify that a human was actually there. Just because they respond does by NO means prove they are not a macro user.
But is he breaching the EULA? I'll be honest... I don't know it verbatim. It may be a violation. Can you point it out though? Because I honestly don't know. Assuming that he is breaching the EULA and assuming you can prove he is reselling GTC's for money (which you can't) yes... he should be banned.
Problem is the 2nd part. Even if he's breaching the EULA there's no way to prove whether he is or not. Because there's no way for CCP to track whether he's re-selling GTC's or not. Now... granted... per the EULA CCP can probably just ban the guy if they so desire... but it's not generally a good idea to do something like that unless you can prove it pretty conclusively. Back in EQ we had a huge burden of proof to meet in order to justify even a suspension... much less a ban. Heck... even just giving a player a warning took some pretty significant documentation.
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Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.11.07 19:02:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Strak Yogorn
Originally by: Taram Caldar
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 07/11/2006 17:38:08
Whether hes a nice or not doesnt matter, hes violating the eula, get his ass banned.
Erm... how is he violating the EULA? He's playing... not macroing.
account sharing is a violation as well.. and farmers/macroers are online something that looks like 23/7/365 ...
Not talking about farmers/macroers here. Talking about this one guy:
How do we know for a fact he's a 'macro'er' or that he's selling ISK for money or that he's even reselling GTCs? All he said is that 'playing EVE' is a part time job. He could even have been joking.
All I'm saying is it's not our (the players) place to decide whether a ban is appropriate or not. It's up to CCP. I hate macro miners and farmers as much as the next person. They ruin game economies and they make it very hard on new players.
But lets not break out the lynch mob and dunking booth just yet.
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HostageTaker
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.07 19:06:00 -
[23]
I've done some macro miner hunting in the past, with success too I might add. Here is a screenshot from almost a year ago of one case.
Macro Miner spills info and gets banned
*I try to use very basic english with these guys once I see that they have trouble understanding. Anyways, report every macrominer people, file exploit and harassment petitons if you get them talking about their operation/job.
Support your EvE community.
>>> EvE-Online Wallpapers <<< |
Leianna
Entropy Tech.
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Posted - 2006.11.07 20:24:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Leianna on 07/11/2006 20:25:52
Originally by: Taram Caldar
Originally by: Leianna So, he would be in fact breaching the EULA, and deserves to be banned. All you people that say he isnt a macro because he talks are just friggin funny. If you understand how these people play, you would know that 9 times out of 10 they ARE running macro programs for the miners (farmers) and running the hauler themselves. I used to play Lineage II, and there, you would have farmers running macro programs but they would sit near the screen in case a GM was to enter private message to verify that a human was actually there. Just because they respond does by NO means prove they are not a macro user.
But is he breaching the EULA? I'll be honest... I don't know it verbatim. It may be a violation. Can you point it out though? Because I honestly don't know. Assuming that he is breaching the EULA and assuming you can prove he is reselling GTC's for money (which you can't) yes... he should be banned.
Problem is the 2nd part. Even if he's breaching the EULA there's no way to prove whether he is or not. Because there's no way for CCP to track whether he's re-selling GTC's or not. Now... granted... per the EULA CCP can probably just ban the guy if they so desire... but it's not generally a good idea to do something like that unless you can prove it pretty conclusively. Back in EQ we had a huge burden of proof to meet in order to justify even a suspension... much less a ban. Heck... even just giving a player a warning took some pretty significant documentation.
Selling drugs is illegal no matter who can prove it or not. Just because CCP, or any player, cannot physically prove they are selling in-game items or using a macro program, does not mean they shouldnt be banned. Honestly, CCP does not have to prove you are using a 3rd party program before you get banned, but like you said, its not a good idea given lack of solid proof. The facts of the matter remain: -Players DO use macro programs -Players DO sell in-game items for RL currency -Players DO breach the EULA every single day and they should ALL be banned immediately. Lack of proof does not make a guilty party innocent.
======================== Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups. |
Gone'Postal
Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2006.11.07 20:44:00 -
[25]
Selling drugs is illegal no matter who can prove it or not. Just because CCP, or any player, cannot physically prove they are selling in-game items or using a macro program, does not mean they shouldnt be banned. Honestly, CCP does not have to prove you are using a 3rd party program before you get banned, but like you said, its not a good idea given lack of solid proof. The facts of the matter remain: -Players DO use macro programs -Players DO sell in-game items for RL currency -Players DO breach the EULA every single day and they should ALL be banned immediately. Lack of proof does not make a guilty party innocent.
Ok i'll follow your thinking. CCP please ban everyone. Without proof EVERYONE is guilty, there are no innocent players. I also thank god your not a high court judge... You would screw over everyone.
The man without a face... The company without a clue. |
Dahak2150
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Posted - 2006.11.07 20:46:00 -
[26]
Originally by: HostageTaker I've done some macro miner hunting in the past, with success too I might add. Here is a screenshot from almost a year ago of one case.
Macro Miner spills info and gets banned
*I try to use very basic english with these guys once I see that they have trouble understanding. Anyways, report every macrominer people, file exploit and harassment petitons if you get them talking about their operation/job.
Support your EvE community.
Hmmm, catch more flies with honey than vinegar....
You sir, are devious. ---------- My sig is boring. |
Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.11.07 20:54:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Leianna Edited by: Leianna on 07/11/2006 20:25:52
Originally by: Taram Caldar
Originally by: Leianna So, he would be in fact breaching the EULA, and deserves to be banned. All you people that say he isnt a macro because he talks are just friggin funny. If you understand how these people play, you would know that 9 times out of 10 they ARE running macro programs for the miners (farmers) and running the hauler themselves. I used to play Lineage II, and there, you would have farmers running macro programs but they would sit near the screen in case a GM was to enter private message to verify that a human was actually there. Just because they respond does by NO means prove they are not a macro user.
But is he breaching the EULA? I'll be honest... I don't know it verbatim. It may be a violation. Can you point it out though? Because I honestly don't know. Assuming that he is breaching the EULA and assuming you can prove he is reselling GTC's for money (which you can't) yes... he should be banned.
Problem is the 2nd part. Even if he's breaching the EULA there's no way to prove whether he is or not. Because there's no way for CCP to track whether he's re-selling GTC's or not. Now... granted... per the EULA CCP can probably just ban the guy if they so desire... but it's not generally a good idea to do something like that unless you can prove it pretty conclusively. Back in EQ we had a huge burden of proof to meet in order to justify even a suspension... much less a ban. Heck... even just giving a player a warning took some pretty significant documentation.
Selling drugs is illegal no matter who can prove it or not. Just because CCP, or any player, cannot physically prove they are selling in-game items or using a macro program, does not mean they shouldnt be banned. Honestly, CCP does not have to prove you are using a 3rd party program before you get banned, but like you said, its not a good idea given lack of solid proof. The facts of the matter remain: -Players DO use macro programs -Players DO sell in-game items for RL currency -Players DO breach the EULA every single day and they should ALL be banned immediately. Lack of proof does not make a guilty party innocent.
I'm very glad I don't live in your world.... Guilty until proven innocent? Sounds pretty hellish to me. Just because "players do" doesn't mean a particular player is. There is a burden of proof in civilized society.
Like I said. I don't like it. And I don't agree with it. But it's not up to you or me to decide who gets banned or not. That's CCP's responsibility and more power to them. I've been on that side of the fence and it's not fun to have to make those calls.
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Leianna
Entropy Tech.
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Posted - 2006.11.07 20:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Gone'Postal Selling drugs is illegal no matter who can prove it or not. Just because CCP, or any player, cannot physically prove they are selling in-game items or using a macro program, does not mean they shouldnt be banned. Honestly, CCP does not have to prove you are using a 3rd party program before you get banned, but like you said, its not a good idea given lack of solid proof. The facts of the matter remain: -Players DO use macro programs -Players DO sell in-game items for RL currency -Players DO breach the EULA every single day and they should ALL be banned immediately. Lack of proof does not make a guilty party innocent.
Ok i'll follow your thinking. CCP please ban everyone. Without proof EVERYONE is guilty, there are no innocent players. I also thank god your not a high court judge... You would screw over everyone.
Obviously you didnt catch what my point was. These players ARE breaking rules, and even though the proof is limited or non-existant as of yet, the fact remains that they are STILL DOING IT.
I did not say EVERYONE is guilty until proven innocent. I merely stated that the "actual" guilty parties are not innocent just due to the lack of proof.
======================== Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups. |
Leianna
Entropy Tech.
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Posted - 2006.11.07 20:57:00 -
[29]
Taram, read my above post, as it applies to you as well.
======================== Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups. |
Gone'Postal
Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2006.11.07 21:02:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Gone''Postal on 07/11/2006 21:05:17 But having "proof" is what makes them guilty.
Proof convicts, Proof gets the ban, Proof keeps the account banned.
Without proof it's speculation and that ain't worth nothing.
To carry on saying people are doing something either there not, or you can't prove that they are is harrasment. and that while suck's is easier to prove in Eve
The man without a face... The company without a clue. |
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Leianna
Entropy Tech.
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Posted - 2006.11.07 21:09:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Gone'Postal Edited by: Gone''Postal on 07/11/2006 21:05:17 But having "proof" is what makes them guilty.
Proof convicts, Proof gets the ban, Proof keeps the account banned.
Without proof it's speculation and that ain't worth nothing.
To carry on saying people are doing something either there not, or you can't prove that they are is harrasment. and that while suck's is easier to prove in Eve
So, following YOUR logic: There are NO macro miners in EVE, so please, everyone stop posting about supposed macro miners. They don't exist.
Seriously, you need to step out of little-kid thinking and open your eyes to the real world. There are macro miners, there will always be macro miners. The ones running these programs are guilty no matter if they have been caught yet or not. period.
======================== Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups. |
Gone'Postal
Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2006.11.07 21:18:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Leianna
Originally by: Gone'Postal Edited by: Gone''Postal on 07/11/2006 21:05:17 But having "proof" is what makes them guilty.
Proof convicts, Proof gets the ban, Proof keeps the account banned.
Without proof it's speculation and that ain't worth nothing.
To carry on saying people are doing something either there not, or you can't prove that they are is harrasment. and that while suck's is easier to prove in Eve
So, following YOUR logic: There are NO macro miners in EVE, so please, everyone stop posting about supposed macro miners. They don't exist.
Seriously, you need to step out of little-kid thinking and open your eyes to the real world. There are macro miners, there will always be macro miners. The ones running these programs are guilty no matter if they have been caught yet or not. period.
Innocent until proven guilty. It's easy to say that the guy running 6 barges and 2 haulers is using a mcaro, he's innocent until anyone can prove the fact he isn't. I've personaly run 5 accounts at the same time without the use of a macro it's easy just stagger lasers to give you enough time to Alt-Tab to the next account.
I never said there were no macro users in eve so please stop putting words in my mouth, ANYONE and I don't care if it's the leader of a 6000 man alliance or the little guy in his mum's basement running 30 accounts macro'd up to the eyeballs is INNOCENT until someone can prove he isn't. A 20 second conversation is NOT proof. SPECULATION is not proof. the fact there running 6 account's is NOT proof. Hell even if he admits it when you convo him it's NOT proof he could be lying his ass off.
I'll now direct you to your own Sig, something your doing a lot of on this topic.
The man without a face... The company without a clue. |
Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.07 21:19:00 -
[33]
Originally by: HostageTaker I've done some macro miner hunting in the past, with success too I might add. Here is a screenshot from almost a year ago of one case.
Macro Miner spills info and gets banned
*I try to use very basic english with these guys once I see that they have trouble understanding. Anyways, report every macrominer people, file exploit and harassment petitons if you get them talking about their operation/job.
Support your EvE community.
That was great, good job! ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
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Leianna
Entropy Tech.
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Posted - 2006.11.07 21:24:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Gone'Postal
Originally by: Leianna
Originally by: Gone'Postal Edited by: Gone''Postal on 07/11/2006 21:05:17 But having "proof" is what makes them guilty.
Proof convicts, Proof gets the ban, Proof keeps the account banned.
Without proof it's speculation and that ain't worth nothing.
To carry on saying people are doing something either there not, or you can't prove that they are is harrasment. and that while suck's is easier to prove in Eve
So, following YOUR logic: There are NO macro miners in EVE, so please, everyone stop posting about supposed macro miners. They don't exist.
Seriously, you need to step out of little-kid thinking and open your eyes to the real world. There are macro miners, there will always be macro miners. The ones running these programs are guilty no matter if they have been caught yet or not. period.
Innocent until proven guilty. It's easy to say that the guy running 6 barges and 2 haulers is using a mcaro, he's innocent until anyone can prove the fact he isn't. I've personaly run 5 accounts at the same time without the use of a macro it's easy just stagger lasers to give you enough time to Alt-Tab to the next account.
I never said there were no macro users in eve so please stop putting words in my mouth, ANYONE and I don't care if it's the leader of a 6000 man alliance or the little guy in his mum's basement running 30 accounts macro'd up to the eyeballs is INNOCENT until someone can prove he isn't. A 20 second conversation is NOT proof. SPECULATION is not proof. the fact there running 6 account's is NOT proof. Hell even if he admits it when you convo him it's NOT proof he could be lying his ass off.
I'll now direct you to your own Sig, something your doing a lot of on this topic.
Try to wrap your little brain around this concept: Players running macros DO exist. They are not innocent. They ARE breaking the EULA. Even though they havent been caught yet, does NOT make them innocent. Now what part of that can you not comprehend?
I simply stated that certain players are breaking rules and should be banned.
Take a real life example: A murder takes place. SOMEONE killed the victim. They are by no means innocent, because they DID commit the murder. No one has caught the murderer yet, but they are still guilty.
That any easier for you?
======================== Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups. |
Gone'Postal
Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2006.11.07 21:38:00 -
[35]
Try to wrap your little brain around this concept: Players running macros DO exist. They are not innocent. They ARE breaking the EULA. Even though they havent been caught yet, does NOT make them innocent. Now what part of that can you not comprehend?
I simply stated that certain players are breaking rules and should be banned.
Take a real life example: A murder takes place. SOMEONE killed the victim. They are by no means innocent, because they DID commit the murder. No one has caught the murderer yet, but they are still guilty.
That any easier for you?
I have admitted that there are marco users in Eve stop pushing that point across. However even IF guilty of using one they are innocent until you or anyone can provide proof that there are indeed using a Macro IE Guilty of the charge you say they are.
Now if someone wanted to,
Open 6 accounts <name them ABCDEF1, ABCDEF2, ABCDEF3> Get them all mining in the same belt using the same ships. When someone convo's you pretend not to speak much English and say you do it for work<Lie>. Let the macro hunters come and blow up your ships. Rebuy gear, wait an hour, undock and carry on roid raping. They blow up your ships again. Repeat for a few hours.
File a harrasment charge to CCP for the destruction of your ships by micro hunter chars.
The man without a face... The company without a clue. |
x10z2
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Posted - 2006.11.07 21:43:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Leianna
Originally by: Gone'Postal
Originally by: Leianna
Originally by: Gone'Postal Edited by: Gone''Postal on 07/11/2006 21:05:17 But having "proof" is what makes them guilty.
Proof convicts, Proof gets the ban, Proof keeps the account banned.
Without proof it's speculation and that ain't worth nothing.
To carry on saying people are doing something either there not, or you can't prove that they are is harrasment. and that while suck's is easier to prove in Eve
So, following YOUR logic: There are NO macro miners in EVE, so please, everyone stop posting about supposed macro miners. They don't exist.
Seriously, you need to step out of little-kid thinking and open your eyes to the real world. There are macro miners, there will always be macro miners. The ones running these programs are guilty no matter if they have been caught yet or not. period.
Innocent until proven guilty. It's easy to say that the guy running 6 barges and 2 haulers is using a mcaro, he's innocent until anyone can prove the fact he isn't. I've personaly run 5 accounts at the same time without the use of a macro it's easy just stagger lasers to give you enough time to Alt-Tab to the next account.
I never said there were no macro users in eve so please stop putting words in my mouth, ANYONE and I don't care if it's the leader of a 6000 man alliance or the little guy in his mum's basement running 30 accounts macro'd up to the eyeballs is INNOCENT until someone can prove he isn't. A 20 second conversation is NOT proof. SPECULATION is not proof. the fact there running 6 account's is NOT proof. Hell even if he admits it when you convo him it's NOT proof he could be lying his ass off.
I'll now direct you to your own Sig, something your doing a lot of on this topic.
Try to wrap your little brain around this concept: Players running macros DO exist. They are not innocent. They ARE breaking the EULA. Even though they havent been caught yet, does NOT make them innocent. Now what part of that can you not comprehend?
I simply stated that certain players are breaking rules and should be banned.
Take a real life example: A murder takes place. SOMEONE killed the victim. They are by no means innocent, because they DID commit the murder. No one has caught the murderer yet, but they are still guilty.
That any easier for you?
Don't resort to personal attacks.
Players running macros DO exist. Yes.
They are not innocent. I agree, they are not innocent of the charge of running macros.
Punishment however, requires both guilt and proof of that guilt.
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Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.11.07 21:56:00 -
[37]
Originally by: x10z2
Don't resort to personal attacks.
Players running macros DO exist. Yes.
They are not innocent. I agree, they are not innocent of the charge of running macros.
Punishment however, requires both guilt and proof of that guilt.
True And guess what: If you SUSPECT someone of being a macro miner, posting their names in a FORUM makes YOU guilty of violating the EULA: Posting Chatlogs is against forum rules and can get YOU banned. If you have a chat log and suspect someone is a macro miner, PETITION it. Let CCP deal with it.
THEY can get the *proof* they need. There is no reason to risk getting banned yourself for being a vigilante.
If I see suspicious activity I petition it. I then go about my business in EVE and let the authorities deal with it (CCP Dev Team/GM Team). It's not my job to enforce the EULA. It's my responsibility to petition abuse or violations if I witness them and provide any detail they request. But it's not my responsibility, nor my right, to assume someone is guilty.
Just my 2 ISK.
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SadisticSavior
Caldari Edenists
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Posted - 2006.11.07 22:10:00 -
[38]
I am curious as a relatively new player. Are there any corps or alliances who exist primarily to exploit macro miners?
It seems like there are a lot of them, and that they would be pretty easy pickings. It would give a pirate corp a very useful role that wouldnt **** off carebear players, and could make the pirate corp fairly rich with little risk. It's a victimless crime. Everyone wins. Hooray.
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Hardin
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.07 22:32:00 -
[39]
One of alliance mates killed a macroer earlier today.
This was his comment in local
siramarr > Enjoy my booty fully
------------------------------ Blog's back - for now
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Taaketa Frist
The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.07 22:38:00 -
[40]
Prove they are selling the ISK.
Prove they are using a program to run their alts.
And finally prove they are sharing their accounts and you can have your ban. --------------
Dang nabit |
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Futuri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.07 22:42:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Hardin One of alliance mates killed a macroer earlier today.
This was his comment in local
siramarr > Enjoy my booty fully
Hmm if he was a macroer, how did he talk in local? Or was that programmed in his bot too?
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Leianna
Entropy Tech.
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Posted - 2006.11.07 23:00:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Leianna on 07/11/2006 23:01:24
Originally by: Futuri
Originally by: Hardin One of alliance mates killed a macroer earlier today.
This was his comment in local
siramarr > Enjoy my booty fully
Hmm if he was a macroer, how did he talk in local? Or was that programmed in his bot too?
It is these comments that started me posting in this moronic thread. Just because they seem to chat is local does by no means show that they are NOT a macro user. Now, before my previous thread-mates jump on me again, I'll state: -YES you need proof to get anything done about them -NO you probably wont be able to obtain any proof
A macro program is not primarily used to run the client while you are not present. They are also widely used as a tool for running multiple accounts by 1 single person. (Note: this does NOT mean anyone running multiple accounts is in fact breaking rules, so dont even try that)
In the same light, a 'farmer', who may not have ever used a macro program, is still guilty of EULA breach due to account sharing / selling the intellectual property of CCP. Again, however, you probably wont be able to obtain any type of proof.
Lastly, I do feel that posting about macro's on the forums is stupid, as you should do as CCP asks, and petition the accused offenders so that CCP may look into it as their word is all that matters in EVE.
======================== Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups. |
Squirrrel
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.07 23:17:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Leianna Edited by: Leianna on 07/11/2006 23:01:24
Originally by: Futuri
Originally by: Hardin One of alliance mates killed a macroer earlier today.
This was his comment in local
siramarr > Enjoy my booty fully
Hmm if he was a macroer, how did he talk in local? Or was that programmed in his bot too?
It is these comments that started me posting in this moronic thread. Just because they seem to chat is local does by no means show that they are NOT a macro user.
Exactly. So many people are quick to jump on the "how can you convo a macroer" without having much background information on the subject. To all those that doubt... sit in some high sec belts with a cargo scanner, look for those really random names on barges, scan the cans and watch them. The fact that they never stack their ore, respond very late to you stealing or flipping the can is a bit of a giveaway.
Yes, sometimes it might be people who just went afk for a bit, but then they don't dump their hold to a can if they're not at keyboard do they?
It's a problem. It's a problem that seems to be getting worse. Burying your head in the sane isn't going to help the matter.
Oh and by the way... the guy that got fired (and we assume account banned) for chatting about the issue - I hope he's still around to actually play games for fun. :/ ---------------------------------------- Scavenger, Outright Ore Thief, Whatever. |
Zantazar
Caldari The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.08 13:04:00 -
[44]
So let me understand this, this may be hypothetical, or not. I have 3 accounts on my pc, 2 in hulks, and one in raven. My son on pc next to me has 3 accounts, 2 in hulks, and 1 in hauler. We mine like for 5/6 hours sometimes at weekends. 1 account has max refining skills. Object is to make TONS of isk. Freighter & Dreadnought(s) on the future shopping list.
I am not keen on wasting my time chatting to immature grievers that insist on asking me what I am doing, why do I do it, how long do I do it for etc... I realise that we may look as we have "macros" but we do not go afk, and I acknowledge a convo briefly. As we have to concentrate continually with 3 accounts each active, we cannot be bothered to chat to the self appointed macro hunter police, which are usually adolescent immature grievers, looking for a fight using the macrohunter excuse.
According to many of you we are macroers. Really, one earlier post actually stated that he would put a limit of 3 accounts active then after that ... 4 accounts or more... he regards them as macroers. Forget the cost of 6 accounts that we pay, forget the amount of concentrated time that we put in.
Please answer this, yes/no to the following;
1 player 3 accounts mining .... macroer ? 2 players (ganged) 3 accounts each mining ..... macroers ? 10 players (ganged) 3 accounts each mining .... macroers ?
Sometimes I just give up on the idiotic babble I read that attempts to justify grievers. Just be honest, "I want you to aggro me, I am going to steal your can" Fine, bring it on. But do not accuse legitimate paying players of breaking ANY rules, because of your hidden agenda.
I would sell my soul, my body, and my entire family for a Navy Raven. (Just kidding .... my soul is not for sale)
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.08 13:21:00 -
[45]
In fairness if someone starts taking the ore then they're just taking the ore as a form of piracy. If someone suicides the barge then they're just hoping to take your strip miners. The door swings both ways. --- Recently returned from vacation on a sunny planet in 0.0. Guess which one! |
DuckM4n Vo
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Posted - 2006.11.08 13:40:00 -
[46]
That person is a farmer, not a macroer. The distinction between macroers/farmers is that, macroers use software to mine for them while farmers actually sit there and mine and haul themselves. Now this might get scramlbed too, ie. farmers using macros, but it seems this guy is just mining (albeit for probably isk selling) which is totally not a breach of EULA. Chinese people mining isnt a breach of UELA.
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Julian Lynq
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Posted - 2006.11.08 14:03:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Zantazar So let me understand this, this may be hypothetical, or not. I have 3 accounts on my pc, 2 in hulks, and one in raven. My son on pc next to me has 3 accounts, 2 in hulks, and 1 in hauler. We mine like for 5/6 hours sometimes at weekends. 1 account has max refining skills. Object is to make TONS of isk. Freighter & Dreadnought(s) on the future shopping list.
I am not keen on wasting my time chatting to immature grievers that insist on asking me what I am doing, why do I do it, how long do I do it for etc... I realise that we may look as we have "macros" but we do not go afk, and I acknowledge a convo briefly. As we have to concentrate continually with 3 accounts each active, we cannot be bothered to chat to the self appointed macro hunter police, which are usually adolescent immature grievers, looking for a fight using the macrohunter excuse.
According to many of you we are macroers. Really, one earlier post actually stated that he would put a limit of 3 accounts active then after that ... 4 accounts or more... he regards them as macroers. Forget the cost of 6 accounts that we pay, forget the amount of concentrated time that we put in.
Please answer this, yes/no to the following;
1 player 3 accounts mining .... macroer ? 2 players (ganged) 3 accounts each mining ..... macroers ? 10 players (ganged) 3 accounts each mining .... macroers ?
Sometimes I just give up on the idiotic babble I read that attempts to justify grievers. Just be honest, "I want you to aggro me, I am going to steal your can" Fine, bring it on. But do not accuse legitimate paying players of breaking ANY rules, because of your hidden agenda.
what he said. my thoughts completly.
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Iyanah
Minmatar Mining Munitions and Mayhem
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Posted - 2006.11.08 17:10:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Neveren its not a macro miner, if there is a person controling them.
at my prime i was controling 8 accounts simutaniously without any problems mining.
Unless hes macroing the other accounts, and just playing the hauler.. then hes in the right to Mine etc..
now, if hes selling isk.. then thats a different story
he clearly states that he's being payed to mine in eve, he is a gold farmer. he is not, however, a macro miner, so in that you are correct.
infact, i believe the number of people macro-mining to be extremely small in comparisson to the chinese sweatshop players. hey, it may not be a particularly PC term, but it IS accurate. ========================================== Iy |
Lurtz
Caldari Gunrunners and Gamblers
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Posted - 2006.11.08 17:22:00 -
[49]
Originally by: HostageTaker I've done some macro miner hunting in the past, with success too I might add. Here is a screenshot from almost a year ago of one case.
Macro Miner spills info and gets banned
*I try to use very basic english with these guys once I see that they have trouble understanding. Anyways, report every macrominer people, file exploit and harassment petitons if you get them talking about their operation/job.
Support your EvE community.
nice work, but as an FYI, posting that picture with gm communication in it might get you into trouble.
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Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.11.08 19:10:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Lurtz
Originally by: HostageTaker I've done some macro miner hunting in the past, with success too I might add. Here is a screenshot from almost a year ago of one case. (Snipped URL) *I try to use very basic english with these guys once I see that they have trouble understanding. Anyways, report every macrominer people, file exploit and harassment petitons if you get them talking about their operation/job.
Support your EvE community.
nice work, but as an FYI, posting that picture with gm communication in it might get you into trouble.
Yep... against forum rules to post that too.... hmm maybe we should ask them to ban him for violating the EULA... that seems like a popular idea in this thread.
I'm kidding but I do have a point...
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Preator Rushview
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.08 19:25:00 -
[51]
Wow.. this is getting out of hand quick.
I bet this guy was sat with 5 coverters with Hammerheads protecting each one from rats, and an Iteron MkIV hauling the contents of jet cans being filled by the coverters to stations in the system. It's a common sight in .5/.6.
This guy said playing EVE is his Part-Time Job, which means he gets paid. No-one pays somebody for doing something for fun, meaning they're turning a profit, which means they have to be selling the ISK produced by mining.
Now of course this is all speculative and non of us can prove anything, so do what I do and steal from these guys everyday. It's within the game mechanics so don't worry about it, and if they're stupid enough to fire on you then you can gank them into the middle of next week.
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Futuri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.08 20:22:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Leianna
It is these comments that started me posting in this moronic thread. Just because they seem to chat is local does by no means show that they are NOT a macro user. Now, before my previous thread-mates jump on me again, I'll state: -YES you need proof to get anything done about them -NO you probably wont be able to obtain any proof
A macro program is not primarily used to run the client while you are not present. They are also widely used as a tool for running multiple accounts by 1 single person. (Note: this does NOT mean anyone running multiple accounts is in fact breaking rules, so dont even try that)
In the same light, a 'farmer', who may not have ever used a macro program, is still guilty of EULA breach due to account sharing / selling the intellectual property of CCP. Again, however, you probably wont be able to obtain any type of proof.
Lastly, I do feel that posting about macro's on the forums is stupid, as you should do as CCP asks, and petition the accused offenders so that CCP may look into it as their word is all that matters in EVE.
I agree that the guy was probably a farmer, and worked for someone who sold the ISK for RL cash. I agree that it's probably in breach of the the EULA (Im not an expert in this matter)
But, why do you call him a macro miner when you do not have the SLIGHTEST evidence that he's using macros in any form. And I'm not talking about proof that would satisfy CCP, there's nothing even hinting that he may be macroing, it's just your personal dislike towards the person.
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Leianna
Entropy Tech.
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Posted - 2006.11.08 20:56:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Futuri I agree that the guy was probably a farmer, and worked for someone who sold the ISK for RL cash. I agree that it's probably in breach of the the EULA (Im not an expert in this matter)
But, why do you call him a macro miner when you do not have the SLIGHTEST evidence that he's using macros in any form. And I'm not talking about proof that would satisfy CCP, there's nothing even hinting that he may be macroing, it's just your personal dislike towards the person.
I didnt call and one specific player a macro user. I simply stated that they are out there and are in fact breaking rules (AKA: GUILTY) I dont care if they have been caught, or if there is even the slightest bit of proof against them, they are still guilty of using the program. WHO these players are is anyone's guess, but ultimately up to CCP to decide.
======================== Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups. |
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